The Dark Elf Rework
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2022
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Thanks King.
The question is, on the Skaven, namely the Snitch, are there reworks or some kind of processing in the mechanics of underground cities?
Thanks for the explanation video, I think old system better.
so are those changes going to be ported over to WH2? or just stay in WH3
Press X to pay respects to Legend's PC which ran WH2 and WH3 at a same time
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X
No
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11:48
Legend: "It's turn 30 and I've actually already achieved short campaign victory, so-"
Lokhlr: "Yes!!"
So my biggest gripe about this is that they changed Slaves from being a unique mechanic for the Dark Elves in WH2, to just a generic spendable resource that you accumulate like Canopic Jars, Oathgold, Prestige, Influence, etc.
They blended it into the N’Kari Devotees mechanic.
This is literally everything they're doing in WHIII, even things that are being praised. I hate the homogenization and flattening they're doing, no doubt in the name of "balance".
I think part of that is because Chaos Dwarves are coming and slaves will become a tradable resource
@@Hazlius As if Dark Elves would EVER talk to a Chaos Dwarf
That's fair, but I honestly thought the slave mechanic was super unfun in WH2. If I wanted to play spreadsheets, I'd be an Eve online player.
The slave mechanic could be so great if you got a bonus based on the race of the slaves. Like if you enslaved a ton of dwarfs you would get a bonus to construction or if you enslaved a bunch of Orcs than maybe public order would be better because the elves get to abuse the ugly green things to be happier but they decline faster. That’s my thoughts.
I love this idea, it's kind of like a mini Waaagh trophy!
This sounds awesome!
I bet that CA will do this mechanic for the Cheos Dwarf slave mechanic
I would go even futher on the idea. I would revert to the old system and make slave types, so you can control the bonuses in each region. Like your examples, dwarfs reduce construction cost and maybe increase income from mines, HE gives public order bonuses (since DE would love to torture them) and so on. I personally think the more interactive the system is, the better.
@@cateto4029
The bigger of a scumbag you can be playing dark elves the better.
The thing I liked about the old system was managing slave free and slave heavy provinces based on my own demand. Stacked modifiers made it way too good, but I think it's a shame to lose that control. I'd prefer something in between.
Yeah the old system has too much micromanagement, but this swings the pendulum too far the other way.
@@doktarr too much miomanagemnt? wtf its basically 1 klick for each province…
@@DerRusher If you really want to maximize it, you could micromanage it and it would become tedious. The fact that Legend doesn't do that doesn't mean that the option isn't there.
But the ultimate sin of the previous system is that it was boring as hell. Sure it was super lucrative, but it wasn't rewarding. It didn't bring me any joy to use it. It just made my campaign much, much easier to use it. And that isn't meaningful nor engaging.
They are really dumbing down the next total war games, I would not be surprised if they would remake Medieval 3 that they would remove the complex building system and soldiers picking stairs out of their butts in sieges.
@@ice20861 the only complex buildings was getting specific guilds that you would have to work towards by getting points
I wish the two systems were combined, so that you mostly get the Warhammer 2 system but instead of a base Warhammer 2 10% slave loss you have the Warhammer 3 slave loss from buildings, while also having the warhammer 3 global slave cap as a bit of a nerf to the slave mechanic. And then make it so that slave economy buildings only activate if you have enough slave invested in that province, and make it so that the Diktats only work in a province that has at least 200 slaves in it
Legend just plays two campaigns at the same time now
I may Grudge for a living but I love playing Dark Elves too, will need to live with these changes to see if it changes how much I enjoy the campaign/how strong my campaigns are
That’s a grudgin
Real Thorgrim Grudgebearer would've never said that! You are an elgi imposter!
@@narxes
- famously spiteful
- hates high elves
- driven by vengeance
- loves crossbows
- infamous fondness for cutting down trees and exploiting natural resources
yep, it's Druchii AND Dawi time
Hey thanks so much for this breakdown video! It's definitely going to help when IE comes out for the rest of us. It was really detailed; thanks for taking the time to put it together.
If you would be able to do one diktat in each province out of those three (maybe with slight changes), I would be fine with the changed mechanic. As it is, it just seems rather boring and simple.
the old slave mechanic had the advantage of still giving something to players who dont care about slaves at all, but also gave the opportunity to get extremly good benefits if used properly.
To be honest, I'm happy to have this limitation, I'd hate to feel obligated to go between every province every 5 turns in long campaigns.
@@mingelcoac Agreed. Sometimes less is more.
Thank you for explaining the slave mechanic! I'm doing a Crone Hellebron campaign right now, it's my first Dark Elf campaign and it's been really fun but my economy hasn't been great. I've been slow to expand and I realize now it's because I haven't been using this system to its full potential. Thanks for always having such informative vids!
Old system, but with much more severe rebellion problems. Throwing 500k slaves into a province and then forgetting about it should carry a significant PO problem and eventually result in a huge rebellion, with varied units like a Rogue Army. It shouldn't be possible to completely eliminate slave decline, and it should be extremely hard to keep the PO problems in check.
Great the battles will give you more slaves to farm 🙂
Yeah I agree, the old system would be way improved if there was a major punishment for putting all your eggs in a basket. Would be awesome if your 100K producing Yvresse province suddenly spawned 5 rogue slave armies like a mini-chaos invasion.
Limitless minus PO and add a limit to how many slaves can go to a province
@@JayvH No you would just get the rebelled slaves back if you won against the rebelling armies
i do play Dark Elves and i enjoyed abusing the system in WH2 but my main fun with them was always the combat for me, so while i think WH2 was obviously a higher skill ceiling and more fun, i dont mind the new system as long as they are not economic garbage and their combat is fun... thanks for the informative video though
Agreed. Their roster is really fun
How do you play Malekith in WH2? I tried for the first time a while ago, sacking everywhere to get slaves, but having wat too many revolts and low control despite buildings (hard difficulty). Do you just sack here and there to avoid this? Seems a bit weird to me, given there's a whole mechanic around slave economy.
@@javicoca you should be farming revolts if you're struggling with rebellions rather than going out and sacking things. Defend and farm a province untim it has enough public order to go on it's own. Then you should attempt confederation with har ganeth and move to kill mung. After that shit gets hard to do consistently so it's up to you
@@javicoca
Yea no point on stopping revolts early on you get your money from post battle loot there are no slave econ on first 30 and when you swat a revolt you gain a public order bonus so yea you kinda use post battle loot and sack money to build infrastructure/slave econ.
It's actually really fast paced progress if done right.
@@javicoca Make sure your slaves only go to one province and not any other, also make sure you do not cause revolts in your settlement that houses slaves since it decreases your amount of them by a lot.
I appreciate how even-handed you are with explaining the differences, man. Always good to have the raw info alongside the opinion, even if I ultimately agree with you on this.
Favorite part about the new system: reducing the number of agents I'll have just sitting in my provinces that I have to skip each turn. Like Legend mentioned, if you understood the system you just never had Masters and Assassins sit idly in your own provinces, and that's not engaging.
Least favorite part of the new system: stripping out all of the complexity to the point of there being nothing clever to do with it. I know Total War is very far to the casual end of the spectrum of strategy games, but that doesn't mean that strategy should be completely taken out. The old system was much better at rewarding smart players like Legend (and idiots like me who watch him), and the new system feels like it has no learning curve whatsoever to understand.
The amount of detail in this is under appreciated
What I would want for wh3 slave mechanics based on what I've seen:
- revert to the old per-province slave population instead of the new global slave pool
- replace the % income increase skills with reduced slave decline and reduced slave impact on public order
- keep the dictats but make them costlier and remove the limits on their usage
- keep the building-specific slave consumption and generation
- track the race of the slaves under the hood and use the enslaved race to determine the race of slave revolt armies
Quite a wish list youve got there bud. Hope someone at ca listens!
Hope not the new system is awesome
@@Smratboy I said the exact opposite. They could easily nerf the gold farm by ditching all slave income bonus skills, as I suggested. Make masters reduce the slave impact on public order instead.
@@DrRipper19 Gonna be honest I think some youtube shenanigans went on there because that reply was to someone else's comment. Will delete now but leave this for context.
While I personally enjoyed the old system, (I'm a cheesy sort of person who likes math quite a lot,) I think it took more attention than necessary for what was just a glorified spreadsheet. It wasn't particularly interesting, but the theming of actually housing and managing the slave population was very good. The new system sacrifices that theme and only gives some simplicity in return. I agree that the system needed a touch up, but the new slaves are even less interesting, less thematic, and less powerful. Turning them into another global resource took away a lot of the uniqueness the old system had as well. On the plus side, it being simpler lets players focus a bit more on the rest of the game and the reduced cheese discourages people from sitting in their base farming slaves, leading to more active campaigns. I think the direction they're leading the playstyle is good and healthy for the game, but I think this specific mechanic became really boring as a result, so I'm hoping for yet another rework of some kind later.
Is anything remotely complex called a spreadsheet now? Lmao
@@LordVader1094 Increased C02 in the atmosphere is causing cognitive decline, look it up.
need animations of slaves to conditions to make it immersive tho 💀
Looking at this footage it becomes impossible to comprehend how CA landed on the disgusting red UI, even taking into account the demonic theme
If they wanted to add interactivity to the system they failed utterly. You now have three buttons you can click once every five turns. Seems like a major step back from a full on resource allocation program.
Dont forget those buttons are usless after like 50-70 turns 1000per turn is nothing and redundant
That's the main issue I agree. Press this every 5 turns isn't really much of a choice, there's an obvious way to use it.
yeah sure but abusing the dark elf system to gain an insane economic boost was never fun its not even hard to manage so there's not exactly alot of skill expression loss. i mean dark elves had good economy without slaves. Slaves just made their economy incredibly busted i much prefer this change
@@TheCeasar8 I don’t mind a rebalance to make it less powerful. But now it’s less powerful AND less interesting. Why even include it? It’s basically flavor text at this point.
to be honest, the "full on resource allocation program" meant stacking slaves and heroes, not particularly interesting either
you know legend is tired of a question when he makes a video on it
Finally the much awaited Discussion!!
You talked about your thoughts during a previous video and I can tell you that you are really objective in this video. Good job explaining the two systems and thank you.
What where the thoughts he wouldnt mention here?
@@seane6616 To keep it simple: that he really doesn't like the new slave system in TWW3.
So specifically in reference to Lokhir Fellheart. He doesn't have the Faction effect for Bonus income from Slave pens and markets.(old system) but it doesn't look like they gave him anything as a replacement. He just has 5% from Slaves, which hellebrone has too.
Thanks for the objective information on both systems I did not play DE much in WH2 anyway so I am not heavily invested here. The WH2 mechanic was certainly exploitable if the player chose to do so but the player can chose to do so or not. In the new system I do not understand why diktats are limited to three max active across your empire. That just appears to be an opportunity lost to add more player agency for players who want that. If I have more than three provinces and plenty of slaves coming in per turn then I should be able to use as many diktats as I have provinces if I want and my slave income supports.
I'm not a fan of the hero stacks in provinces, they should be fighting in armies, ranging across map, or spread across provinces. Add something like attamans for administration for other developed races perhaps. I think I favour the moderation on this cheese for both HE+DE sorry to say Legend. They can improve the new mechanic further though I hope
Yeah heroes and mechanics should be exactly the same for all factions for all races in every campaign. THE SAME>
I honestly thought it would be worse based on the Livestream discussion.
It's not terrible, if i was to change it i would allow the diktats to be done in every province (maybe one a province). I'd also look at some of the bonuses for it.
Otherwise not as bad as I expected and the previous mechanic was definitely overtuned.
My greatest fear of the Dark Elf Rework was that they'd stop calling it "Slaves" and name it "Firesprays" instead.
What?
@@TheNoodleGod9001 they’re referencing boba Fett’s ship having its name ‘slave 1’ being omitted in favour of just calling it by its in-universe model designation ‘Firespray.’ Presumably Disney, Lego, or some other force felt uncomfortable about putting the word ‘slave’ on kids toys /products. Doubly so when no one knows why the ship was named Slave 1 to begin with without having to seek out the wookieepedia article.
@@commandercors Ah
@@commandercors I get a chuckle about Americans and slavery, they tip toe around it like they invented the bloody thing
@Pelinal Whitestrake That said I think it's also possible to have genuine reactions to emotionally charged issues (like slavery), that can't and shouldn't be dismissed as fakery, virtue signalling, being soft or what have you.
We all engage in suspension of disbelief to enjoy the content we do, whether it be violent films, literature, or video games. I think that based on an individuals background, training and life experience they can certainly have a hard time dealing with depiction of one horror or another.
So whilst I do criticise some people for speaking arrogantly in a manner that seems to lack context (e.g., my country was the only one that did slavery, so care about my perspective), and people who abuse the good manners of others by pretending, virtue signalling, etc, I also think it's important to remain in touch with our empathy for others, including their genuine feelings. Of course, I ultimately agree that those feelings aren't a reason for censoring art, etc.
I think the new slave mechanic does do somethings right, in the old system, you would go to a rich Provence and blast out heros for a ridiculous amounts of money, basically negating any downsides. This new system doesnt allow you to abuse it so hard. So me, like many other players feel like a middle ground needs to be struck. But this system also feels familiar, seems like they are trying to somewhat unify systems in terms of usage and gainage generally, which is obviously not what total war gamers want, we want factions to play and feel completely different, its the main draw from having so many different factions and ledge lords. This just feels pointless and tedious, not strategy.
I've watched your Total War Settra campaign stream and I can say that you were objective in this video. (Edit: Also, great video, thank you for really breaking the new system down into it's component parts.)
If I could get your thoughts on one thing though, what do you think if CA combined the two systems together? Like being able to send slaves to specific provinces (Warhammer 2 system) and have all of the other systems in place from Warhammer 3?
Still no Phoenix King mechanic ehh? How hard can it be CA
anyone else say "legend of total war here" spot on every legend video or just me?
The tww3 dark elf mechanic felt like someone managing the slaves for you.
While in tww2, it felt you are managing the slaves yourself instead.
Glad you ran with my idea for this vid.
The dick tattoos are pretty disappointing. It’s the only real interaction we get with the system, but then it’s limited to 3 possible decisions per five turns total... and because of the limitation, I probably will hold off using them for emergencies and makes even fewer decisions.
Overall, I liked the old system a lot more. It felt more like empire building, this new system is just small and lackluster. Hopefully they update it more to be a little more grand in scale.
My wife is always disappointed by my dick tattoos, but I don't even have a tattoo on it!
to be honest i've played plenty of dark elves , and seen legend play in a similar way and he goes on about this spread sheet, but he'd turn slaves off for all cities and have them pile into the one till it reached max, once it did he'd open up the next city he wanted max slaves in, so it was 1 click every 20 odd turns for turning on a new slave city, and every time he started conquoring a new region he'd turn slaves off to going in that new region . . .not really that much interaction there either except you could press a button to see where all your slaves were (wow). To me neither system is good the old system is completely boring, the new system looks boring, the old system you don't start getting benefits till later in the campaign but they're larger, now you get them earlier but smaller, I can see that +20 control becoming clutch at times and i can see you being able to get 1 k gold within the first few turns of the game with said new system every 5 turns. but really at the end by time you get the DE economy going like he was showing in his turn 75 campaign you're already steamrolling so don't really need that much money anyway . . its just a case of going oi look how much money i can make, By looks of the new system you at least get a few more early game benefits out of it but doesn't have the late game income though you don't need the later game income either since armies are a lot lot cheaper with the supply line reductions.
dick tattoos hehe
@@SirBlaze75 The management was more about conquering the right provinces, stacking assassins and some masters in them and optimizing your buildings in said provinces, while taking public order and possible invasions into account (walls or no wall ?). You might respond that it still ain't much but it goes beyond clicking stop or plus in the dedicated interface.
@@CosmoJZ i'd agree with you to a point, here as it soon becomes an exploit than a management system just like the entrepreneur's for the high elves. and again it's a move them to the provence and leave them there situation. So again only doable when you get cap available.
I get breaking a game for fun, but even in terms of exploits the Dark elf slave system was dumb. Even just doing it on naggarond was so much god damn money.
Current system is a bit of an over correction, but I understand why they did it.
Legend’s pc must be sounding like a jet engine by running two games at the same time
Very informative. Thank you.
I dont know, the new system seems fine to me. But ive never been a cheese heavy player. Does sycophantic scemer stack?
I like the core idea behind the rework which appears to have been about giving you more things to do than to set up your spreadsheet correctly. This being said I think it missed the mark on a most of its point.
It doesn't appear to scale correctly since is based of hard values and not %.
Since everything is reduced to a steady drain rather than slaves giving % boost having a huge amount of slaves now appears to be a liability. The system should then in theory be all about spending slaves wisely but there are no worthy outlet. The Rites and Diktats are time capped which look like it leads to an over abundance of slave. I'd honestly rework the Diktats a little bit in order to give better scaling/lategame bonuses and i would remove the things that lock out a diktats in all other province once you use it. This way you would have the ability to provide yourself more boost while also keeping control/public order at manageable levels.
Finally this will require some testing but the traits, skills and items for Slave might be a little under powered. Nearly everything seems to be about generating Slave which is apparently a breeze anyway and the few actual bonuses don't outpace their own upkeep cost.
Finally i think you should be able to trade slaves and use them in diplomacy. With the Arrival of the Chaos Dwarves and the eventual Norsca rework it would have been a good time to start looking at Slaves in more details.
So at the end of the campaign, let's just assume you conquer the whole map, doesn't the global public order penalty get ridiculously high? Or is there a ceiling for the penalty? Because if there isn't, you're almost guaranteed to deal with constant rebellions, unless you don't house slaves. So for some reason, some slaves in Lustria will make my people in Norscan settlements unhappy? What the hell....
I recall in some other total war games there’s a system called imperium level, which gives the player factionwide public order debuff and other debuffs as they conquer more land. I think maintaining slaves and PO in WH3 would be kinda similar to that.
Yo guys. Im still playing warhammer 2, but it got a new huge update. Like 20Gb, does someone know what C&A did this time? I cant get any information of it
I think the old system wasn't really that interesting either - it was just pumping as many slaves as possible into whatever city makes the most money, and stacking as many buffs as you can get from as many heroes/buildings as you can into those buildings.
Wasn't much -meaningful- choice. It had the downside of public order, but that was never an issue - you just stacked your public order bonuses in the provinces with the gold mines.
I think the new one'd be ideal if you could just spend more slaves at a time. The dictat system looks like it'd be fine earlygame, but it just doesn't scale into the future with the cap. If you could raise the cap, or if there just wasn't a cap and you could use it as many times as you had the slaves for it (but still once per province) then it'd be alright, I think.
All one needs in there is the whole slave revolt feature that would cause a large force of enemies in dark elf regions that if successful can have a chance to start a major slave revolt that can topple dark elf factions and or stall there growth. The freeded slaves would have nothing to lose and would fight to the death etc. think like the rogue armies mechanic would apply to the slave revolts.
I think CA wants to get rid of systems that incentivize parking heroes in a province. That's good, but making the system essentially not worth engaging with is a pretty steep costs for the change.
so they will kill it for high elves too? probably
but in a way before you needed to decide if it is wort parking or sending them to battle not it feels like to battle with you all , back in rome 2 it was fun with governors that more or less played as parked heroes
@@sanjikaneki6226 mages at the very least are quite useful in battles (more than masters). And it was a single trait specifically which you have to farm and had already been nerfed quite heavily. It may avoid further nerfs as it's already not as broken as it was.
Having valid choices is more fun, but it seems like CA is going hard into streamlining everything.
If they don't want you to park heroes in a province, why give them abilities that give bonuses to their local province? As it is, those skill choices are worthless because you don't want to put them where they would do the most good
@@sanjikaneki6226 they killed it for high elf already, entrepreneur is nerfed to oblivion
Stupidly, they added the Attamans.
Heroes that act as governors and stay only in one region... I found that pretty cool, but then they go out and do something like this.
What a kneejerk reaction.
I feel that the reworked system penalizes the player for having a large empire. This considering that playing on ME or IE is entirely about exterminating opposing factions and the only way to do that is to occupy their settlements yourself. Copying the Slaanesh mechanic is pointless if the stupid system limits the dictats to 3 uses at any given time. They should let the player use as many dictats as the player wants instead of hamstringing the player with this BS.
not really, don't forget you have reduced supply line costs by a heafty amount in IE, so you don't need as much money as you used to for so many armies. i've just watched Dame offensives ghorst campaign and she's pulling out a bout 6 armies by turn 19 sure they're zombe stacks, but 6 armies turn 19 in ME and making money on top of that only Brets could do that in ME
@@SirBlaze75 I'm also watching DameOffensive's Ghorst campaign and you are completely forgetting the COST DIFFERENCE between those zombies and darkshards. In Ghorst's campaign, zombie units are extremely cost effective with a base unit upkeep cost of 19 (currently 12) cash per turn. You can see the difference in upkeep costs by comparing DameOffensive's first episode with her most recent episode. By contrast, darkshards have a base unit upkeep cost of 137, which is easily 5 times more expensive than zombies. Economies of scale matter.
@@hentaioverwhelming No i wasn't forgetting the cost difference ergo I infered running the same set up in both ME and IE, and used Dame as an easy reference, cos you're not gonna be running by turn 20 6 armies 4 of which are full stacks 2 half stacks, and maintaining a positive income all that easily in ME, why because the supply line costs are going to be increasing the cost of each army by what 75% by that stage not sure maybe more cos of legendary. where is in IE the supply line costs will be what 20% extra, as far as i know its 15% increase per army after the first for ME, and only a 4% increase per army in IE,
You don 't seem to be taking this part of the economics into consideration
@@SirBlaze75 As dark elves in Warhammer 2, I can make 25K to over 50K from several high capacity provinces using the slave system where a normal province would only really net me roughly 5K to 10K in taxes and still allow me to expand my empire without worrying about public order problems. I think the highest earning province I had gave me 60K in taxes. Definitely not as amazing as high elves with their entrepreneur spam but it allowed me to field armies at a moment's notice to protect these core provinces.
With how this system has been revamped in Warhammer 3 for dark elves, the most any province will make in taxes is roughly 8K which is peanuts compared to the previous system. Then there is the whole bullshit with the global public order penalty due to having a large amount of slaves in a global pool which makes expanding the empire a bit more of a pain in the ass. The fact of the matter is that the dark elves, as an empire, are very similar to the Roman Empire: they are extremely dependent on the influx of new slave labor to massively inflate their economy.
I would say that you don't seem to understand the economics of this problem.
@@hentaioverwhelming I understand the economics well enough to realsie that they've changed the system in IE to a reasonable extent, Regions Grow faster and are built up quicker so get to tier 4&5 far more speedily than ever and armies are far far cheaper in IE not only that it appears that public order isn't as harsh as it used to be ( though this might be down to the players i've watched than it actually being the case.)
In Essence they've revamped the DE Economy for a new IE Economy, you seem to be working off ME's old economic setting and don't understand that the actual base game has changed, such that you hadn't even realised i was talking about supply lines even though i'd used the term when refering to Dames game. I mean 6 armies in both you're saving about 55% of the base units cost in each army by that stage. and when you were talking about dark shard stacks that's approximatetly what 1400 more gold per army you're paying in ME, with a less developed province in the same time period
Hopefully CA puts a similar system to Chaos Dwarf ‘Labourers’ back in Warhammer 3 (which strikes me as just a polished version of the Dark Elf Slave mechanic from Warhammer 2).
Maybe it will come with a big update for the Dark Elves/Warhammer 1 and 2 factions (updated Lord portraits, graphical and texture upgrades for units, diplomacy lines for those factions for Warhammer 3 factions, etc.)
New guide from LegendofTotalWar: How to manage your slaves O_O
Oh no, can't stack slaves in 1 province any more.
So does the Cult of Pleasure Slaanesh thing multiplier work?
Its an awful shame. I used to boost some rich and safe provinces with slaves and raze and sack like a true pirate all over the map. That allowed you to grow tall your faction while having few settlements and choose where to fight with your black arks. I truly think its a step back as it gives you less control and options in how to play your campaign.
the old system made more sense. However it was also extremly busted, so a nerf to it was definetly warrented. I think the new system could be finde if the slave modifiers were local not global (only slave provinces get order penaltiy, however this penaltiy should be higher the more slave consuming buildings there are).
When do we get to see Valkia!?!?
Is there any negatives (other than making less money) to trying to burn your slaves out? Would it be more effective to just try and consume them as fast as possible? *this is a weird thing to type. It seems like there are way more negatives trying to stock up where you can instead almost immediately *spend them on income for that turn.
I am not a huge fan of either version, because it doesn't really feel as if you actually manage anything.
Its more or less just a passive money multiplier for winning battles.
If I had to choose I would prefer the WH3 version, because the "diktats" give us something active to do with the slaves, but its still not really where it could be.
Really good video, thanks legend!
Would the master 10% multiply with each other in 3? It still wouldnt be good without absurd numbers of them in 1 province but in theory it could make some money
I was so annoyed I thought my browser was lagging lol
Man that's rough. Good luck to Malekith fighting off the Chaos invasion now work less than half his income.
Why do you have two barracks on the same province?
I think I'll have to try it out but already missing the cheese
Thank you for being informative and factual. I believe that this type of content is great at fostering a more positive and productive community. I much prefer this to your more emotionally driven rants in your livestreams. Great work!
Nice and informative video legend, the new rework def has to be seen again by CA in the meanwhile send my regards to your pc which is prob in need of recover after running wh2 and wh3 at the same time XD
I like both, obviously only played them in WH2 but the idea of being able to utilize heroes in your army more now, (Even if you could before if you were not cheesing) is great. But I guess they just won't be as rich. More fun in combat though with more heroes available in armies.
Not enough cheese for the cheese master.
Basically, even if you forget DE intern is a thing, you'll still have the same campaign as if you did remember them.
So remind me again what mechanic do they actually have again?
Coming soon with patch 1.FU, set regions to auto build, diplomacy to auto manage and armies to auto recruit, move and fight. Wouldn't want anyone to have to make a decision with consequences now, would we?
did he take ulthuan, clar karond, naggarond, karond kar, har ganeth, deadwood sentinels as lokhir fellheart in TURN SEVENTY ONE?
So- Maybe this is just me. I really loved playing Dark Elves in Warhammer 2, they were my favorite faction, and I never had the patience to sit down and really Mid-Max my slave income like I see people do with Masters and Assassins. I -Still- had some extremely ridiculous income, when all I would really do is not allow slaves to go to developing provinces, and force all of them into the high income areas. Warhammer 3, I think, has this big push towards being multiplayer viable as a campaign, so I can see why they would want to kill the earlier system. It was easily exploitable, and busted, even if it was thematic and enjoyable to the player.
I'm glad they replaced it. The new system needed further development time, but it would feel so much better if they just tweaked the hero skills a little to maybe give SLIGHTLY more income, or make it so those modifiers don't stack. The dictats also either need much lower cool down times with each threshhold of slaves reached, or maybe they could be region specific cool downs with a much higher cost of slaves.
Either way, I'm glad legend made a video about this. CA can be competent, but the way they created the initial warhammer 3 campaign has shaken my faith in them A LOT.
I'm honestly let down. They took everything that was intricate about it and turned it into another single variable that shows up at the screen at the top row. :(
I like heroes in my army because I think they're fun to use in fights so I lean towards the War 3 method for that reason alone.
This is so poggers
waiting for this rework in real life mode
I'll probly get three after this thing is over. But not before. Cheers for the vid.
Take a shot everytime Legend says the word "Slave" in this video
They could have kept a version of the old system in simbiosis with this one. Something like priority points for every 2 provinces. Every 2 provinces you own, you would obtain a priority point to spend on a province to boost its slave mechanic.
I remember starting off my Total Warhammer 2 journey with Dark Elves and the Slave system absolutely screwed me over because I didn't understand it.
Now that I'm more experienced, it's incredibly easy to abuse and just have infinite cash.
I don't know if I'm very happy with the way the rework was done but, imo, it was necessary. The old system was a mess and definitely didn't work in the way the devs intended.
You know what, that doesn’t look bad at all, maybe add in a scaling economic bonus to the global bonuses? Maybe some other bonuses and maluses as well, down the line. It’s certainly different, but I don’t need the stupidly OP 100k gold per turn to enjoy DE.
Did u even play dark elves
Uh yeah, they were my first played, and most played, race in WH2.
So, do blarks still cost 100k+ gold to fully upgrade, plus defensive army costs and upkeep?
Because they needed to have one of the strongest economies when they had the largest expendatures.
I think their main goal was to stop us from parking tons of heroes in provinces. I can agree with the sentiment.
I never really liked the old system because I hate min/maxing settlements and I feel like the old system is not fun if you do not min/max.
The new system is ok, but it's not risky enough for me. Slaves should be a high risk/high reward mechanic and as you showed it in this video, it seems very safe. Especially with the buttons you can activate on the provinces.
Also, I will need to try it for myself, but as I always say, a resource you never run out of is not a good resource.
Thank you Legend.
Hmm, I think the new system has the potential to be better. But the way you can use the slave and how they interact with the province I think isn't there yet.
I imagine a sort of harmony system like Cathay where you want to keep the slave pop in a range to get benefit out of it rather than just stock pile them like 2, but you should have the ability to control how much it impacts each province individually. Like if you get a 2 deficiency or overpop penalty you can assign the two penalties to two separate provinces.
Wow.. they actually put effort into making a decent system into utter garbage. 10/10, wonder how that design meeting went.
It's a better system and you're wrong. The last system was hardly interactive and overpowered.
@@JWSoul You're the one who's wrong here. Old system was hardly interactive. New system is barely interactive at all. The main design philosophy at play here was first and foremost nerfing the old system, not replacing it with something actually interesting.
And hilariously, the ports cost slaves to maintain whereas the resource buildings dont. Somehow, all the slave trade and piratical enterprise that the ports sustain fail to make up for all the dock workers who are constantly dying. And meanwhile, no Dark Elf slave ever dies in harvesting resources.
The new system is a joke. I can live with it, and I can continue to have fun with the Dark Elves, but I will also call a spade a spade :
the new system is not an improvement. it's uninspired and ill-thought out. dont get me wrong, I think they were right to apply nerfs to the Dark Elf economy.
but it is absolutely insane to me that you or anyone else can seriously suggest that the new system is better in any way.
@@TheKolboShow At least you have Province abilities to use and manage.
Also regarding the logic fail you mentioned. That's minor and yeah I agree silly.
But it is clearly a more interesting system. Before all it was, was brain dead boring and un interactive.
This is clearly better and at least you may have to use your brain a bit.
Have to disagree with uou to be honest the old system was pathetic boring and mindless and just an easy way for players to become rich.
That's my opinion now as of seeing this but it may change when I play.
Worth noting the rewards you get now for the amount of overall slaves you have. I dont remember if that was a thing before or not I'm afraid as my Legendary playthrough as Malakeith and then later Malus was a long time ago.
@@JWSoul What more interactive?
Actually deciding where to put resources and build special buildings and place heroes for passive benefits...
Or...
Hit button.
Jeez gosh, wow, I guess the new one is way more interactive. I have one decision to make. Very hard.
@@JWSoul You don't remember if you are rewarded for having more slaves? You put that in the same post about "using your brain a bit" that's hysterical.
I swear the 23rd cant come around quick enough feels like half my lifetime waiting for the game!
hope this video does not get demonetized
great video!
Yes, Legend, you don't want to lose those precious slavesss. :)
Legend out here sacrificing his PC to run WH2 mortal empires and WH3 immortal empires at the same time, what a mad lad.
He must have upgraded his PC
We're dealing with a man so averse to spending even 5 minutes editing a video that he just chose to have two incredibly resource intensive games running at the same time at 10 fps so he could tab between them. He's beyond our comprehension
Truly a mad man of legendary proportions.
without playing myself i can't really say whether i like the changes or not. It seems like the new system is much more isolated and dosen't interact with other systems like heros or region base income anymore. Overall seems like it is more passive to where you just click the 3 diktates every 5 turns and otherwise forget about it rather than before where you at least throughout the game were able to optimize the mechanic, adding new cities to funnel slaves to, building the specific slaves buildings other provinces don't need, setting up the heros there and on a larger scale prioritize research of the slave related tech choices and assign followers.
If the goal was to make the system more engaging i'm not sure it was achived.
You mean abuse the income and revolt system. It wasn't deep or clever it was a glorified cheat code and this is coming from someone who played them a lot. I don't think the new system is the be all end all but it's a start. Hopefully they'll add to it over time, same as the geomantic web. But so far it seems like a simple but useful system that will help you pick and choose your conquests. Which may be really damn useful in IE.
@@Smratboy i didn't say it was deep or clever i just said it seems there are even less things to think about with the new system.
I don't know what you mean with pick and choose your conquests tbh the new system to me at least doesn't look like it requires me to do anything other than sack and occupy everything which was what you did as DE everytime anyway.
@@simjo1311 So does it just come down to you don't like not being able to cheese farm slaves? What I mean by pick and choose is the new little dictats will help set up anchor points and staging grounds within a very short amount of turns. Is it one of the greatest mechanics in game? No of course not, but it's better than what we had in practicality and hopefully will be added to again later.
@@Smratboy again i don't know if the new system is better than the old one or not i have not played it yet.
My point is that the new system seems to be a more isolated mechanic this means there are less ways it impacts the way i end up playing the game.
For me the WH2 system throughout a playthrough would come up time and time again whether that was in the tech tree or the landmarks in a city i just took or the slave related buildings in general or the hero capacity i have or how many slaves are currently in my money making regions and if i can open another region to take on slaves all that impacted me playing and i just am not confident the new system will do the same or even similar things to that.
Again them adding to it later is great but irrelevant right now and there isn't even a guarantee they will add to it at all.
The Black Flood… 69% capacity. Nice
I think it would of been pretty cool to be able choose which system you used at the start of a new campagin.
But understanding coding and how such a thing would pile on dev time, I kinda believe they didn't have the time. Since we all want immortal empires.
Hopefully CA could add The choice in later.
Haha im so glad to see this. I tought they are unplayable after what you say in stream . Its not bad just cause you cant abuse it .its a good thing
I really appreciate Legends balanced approach to this discussion in the video. Very well presented. It's a shame that CA's lactose intolerance is making IE less fun than ME.
13:27 - Hold on. Did they nerf Lohkir?
Giving Corsairs fear was a fraction prassive and the stalk was an army passive.
It is hard to judge the new system completely without having tried it myself. As much as I enjoyed the amazing income in WH2, I did always find it a bit sad to leave so many agents just idling around in the rich provinces, the same could be said about the High Elves with mages flooding the donut.
I am curious how the economy is impacted late game for the Dark Elves, will it be impossible to keep up the slave demand if you own half the map? Lets say you are 1000g in positive income and you run out of slaves, wouldnt that put you far into the negative?
It's not scaling with your power. Huge nerve!
A hybrid beetween the two will be good honestly lore wise slaves for darkelves should be an alternative construction cost and econ bonus.
They’re meant to be power hungry! It only makes sense for them to find a way to extract more money than everyone else through keeping their captives alive and experimenting or whatever like it’s totally loreful for them to get richer than everyone else by exploiting their captives…. Not to mention the fun of it and the effort involved
the loss of frames was burning my eyes
great informing video
cheese 🧀