I prefer the master tool to be a non-cutting tool as it won’t wear down over time. I prefer the steel dowel because then I can I’m use it for corner finding too and not worry about the rotation of the cutter. Great video as always.
Yeah, good point Jason! A precision steel dowel is great for corner finding w/Avid's touch plate. In theory, once you setup any given height, you can use ANY tool to touch off the surface plate for measuring any other tool (including using the Edge Tech gauge block), but it will have an issue with wear over time as you pointed out.
FYI. I wired up a double A battery to a led light with alligator clips at both ends. When I touch off to the work piece or the table top. I apply a piece of aluminum duck tape to the part I want to touch off from. Bring the tool down until the led lights up and I have Zero. Works for me.
Great set of videos and really appreciate the effort you put into this. Question where is the gauge block set to 4.0 like you have n the video. I purchased the zero gauge you recommended but can find anywhere too set the height ? Again fantastic job on the videos.
Yeah! The default Avid CNC screen set in Mach 4 doesn't have this. You have to use the ATC Screen Set I made, or load the one that come's with Avid CNC called "wxRouter" (or something like that). You can go back to any other screen set after setting a tool height.
Hi, What is your routine for cutting say like a simple part, maybe a sq. pc of plywood, since your have a tool table and ATC. For setting the tool height on the work pc do you use the master tool dowel to get the height every time and then slip in the tool you want to use, or just use the tool you want to use for touch off, if you were to do it manually. Say a unique cutter that's not in your tool forks and only a one time shot. Does your ATC use the master tool dowel for all your touch offs in the normal way? Thanks a lot.
Hi Fritz. For most my jobs, I design them with the z-origin at the spoilboard, and I use offsets. So I never have to touch off anything, as it is just stored in the machine. I have a video about this: ruclips.net/video/iyP81afV-Io/видео.html . I usually use the spoilboard as my z-zero for work; the only case where I don't is when I want something relative to the top, and the thickness isn't well defined, and the cut depth is important. Such as, when engraving on the top of a piece. When I do touch off, I can use any tool and the Avid touch plate. Using the 'master tool' is preferred because it will always be the same height. When using a normal tool bit, the bit may become worn, or it may pull out a bit, and the height may be shorter or longer, causing inconsistencies with other cuts. When I put a bit in a new tool holder I do have to measure it. For that instance, I put my 4" height gauge down and drive the bit down until it reads zero, and then use "set tool height" in Mach 4 to set the tool height; the DRO for the tool height will be set to 4.0, the height of my gauge. I also have done this with the Avid touch plate; you can't use the touch routine, but manually drive down the bit until the light comes on showing it made contact. It would be nice to add an auto height setter for unknown bit heights.
Yes! BUT with a bit gotcha: You have to use my custom screen set. The one that Avid provides has a huge bug in it, where if you use their touch off plate code it will crash. This is because they don't account for the tool height set in the tool table. I "work around" this in my screen set by disabling tool heights before their touch plate code is invoked, and then re-enabling it afterwards.
Good day Corbin. Great video series by the way. So i measured out my zbump and set it up for my ATC. It works amazing well with grabbing a tool, but when it goes to drop a tool off, the Z up doesnt quite account for how fast the tool push out goes and flexes my whole mount setup quite aggressively. Ive increases my rapid rate to 600 and even down as low as 50, and the problem remains constant. Not to sure whats up, or if im am being a dough head and completely missed a step. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
Hey Devon - I got your email and replied there, but I'll do a quick reply here too. The code doesn't do any z-bump for the tool drop off; I based it off CNC Depot's script, which didn't do it. I also have a pause after the release of the drawbar -- my spindle takes a second to release, and without the pause the spindle would start to rip my fork up and off. Your spindle might not need the pause, so try commenting out MCCntlGcodeExecuteWait("G04 P%.4f", 0.3) in the code for the release, but do so at your own risk (it might pull the fork up and out!). Another idea is to combine the GCode to one call, which make Mach4 execute it "quicker", but I haven't tested this: MCCntlGcodeExecuteWait("G04 P%.4f G00 G90 G53 Z%.4f", 0.3, ZClearanceWithNoTool)
@@fritzbabler6459 Ah, I see what is confusing! You put in tool 0 and you use that to touch off your Z-axis so to set z-zero with it. Then, you put in your bit, activate it, touch off with it, but don't reset z-zero. You then hit the button to set the height for it based on your touch plate height. This records its height relative to tool 0. Now, once you have a tool in your tool table, and that tool is "active", you can use it to touch off on your touch plate and set Z zero. The problem with this, eventually all tools wear and sometimes pull up/down, so it will cause inconsistencies. That's why everyone generally uses one "master tool 0". Mine is my Haimer.
I am doing dry runs on a sample gcode file and I see when I touch off the work pc and run the file, the tools are way off from where they are supposed to be cutting on depth. Doing my dry runs 5" from the spoil board so the 1/4" tool is cutting about 1/4" too shallow and the 1/2" is cutting about 1.5" too deep so I know there is a problem with the tool table. My other machine works fine using Mach3 for the past 15 years. I use fusion for my files and gcodes. I watched a few videos from mach support on setting up the tool table, and seems the 2 that's out there, which are different from Mach, don't calculate properly. I just don't get it. I set my tool heights and follow their video exactly and and I still get no proper tool depth cutting using the tool table.
@@fritzbabler6459 Yeah, your tool table is not correct if that is happening. You should be able to: activate tool 0, put it in the spindle, jog to right above your workpiece; it should read 0 (or a little above). Jog up, put in tool 1, activate it, which with my screen set activates the tool height with a G43, jog down to right above the workpiece, and it should read 0 or pretty close to it. If it doesn't...you have your height for it wrong.
Hi Sir, I can see you are an expert..! I hope you can help me..! Can you demystify some of my worries..? There is lot of confusion regarding the reliability and consistency of mach3 as it is PC based and USB or Parallel port.! Lot of people say that it may behave funny in the middle of a project and it may ruin the entire job..! which can be caused by slight voltage spikes from nearby high power accessories like VFD or Motors. And relying fully on PC for CNC operation is not recommended. I am so worried about all these..! I am not sure how much immunity against such HF-RF Noise shielded cables can offer..! But dedicated CNC controllers like Masso and RichAuto are insanely priced.! and I don't have access to USA or Euro Based other CNC Controllers here..! People have also mentioned that If signal voltage is high (24v or higher) It can withstand such interferences..! But mach3 operates at 5V only..! So there is high chance of signal contamination..! Is that a huge concern..? Mach3 Boards are affordable. But If I cant use them for longer projects , then there is no point in spending money for all the parts which are still expensive..! I am so worried..! Secondly, I have seen in videos that The baud rate that mach3 communicates at , is not adequate to drive powerful servos..! ! So Only steppers at low power application is possible with Mach3. That is so discouraging..! Can you help me?
Hi! I'm only familiar with Mach 4 communicating to the CNC machine with ESS (Ethernet Smooth Stepper). Mach 3 is very outdated; don't use it. ESS seems quite stable and works well; you will want to use a shielded ethernet cable. You shouldn't have any noise issues if you use a shielded cable, and have a short run from your PC to the controller. I have heard of some people having issues due to having too slow of a PC; buy a computer that is adequately spec'ed; I spent $800 on mine, and it is great. I also heard of some people having static issues with their dust collection causing problems; I have lots of static build up; my tubes attract dust and particles, but I have not had issues with my CNC machine because of that. If you do, you can ground your dust collection tubes. Best of luck!
Sure, that's a good question! I haven't noticed any issues with mine changing, but I live in a relatively dry and low-humidity area, and run a de-humidifier to keep the humidity on the low side. I'm near Lake Tahoe, California. I've heard that some people who live in southern USA have pretty big issues with humidity. What type of material are you using for your spoilboard?
was using MDF spoilboard was swelling and contracting worse then my ankles. switched over to extrusion. best decision i ever made, but then again im in ontario canada where the temp could be -20c up to 40 deg c. @@CorbinDunn
I prefer the master tool to be a non-cutting tool as it won’t wear down over time. I prefer the steel dowel because then I can I’m use it for corner finding too and not worry about the rotation of the cutter. Great video as always.
Yeah, good point Jason! A precision steel dowel is great for corner finding w/Avid's touch plate. In theory, once you setup any given height, you can use ANY tool to touch off the surface plate for measuring any other tool (including using the Edge Tech gauge block), but it will have an issue with wear over time as you pointed out.
FYI. I wired up a double A battery to a led light with alligator clips at both ends. When I touch off to the work piece or the table top. I apply a piece of aluminum duck tape to the part I want to touch off from. Bring the tool down until the led lights up and I have Zero. Works for me.
That's a clever idea! Thanks for sharing!
Great set of videos and really appreciate the effort you put into this. Question where is the gauge block set to 4.0 like you have n the video. I purchased the zero gauge you recommended but can find anywhere too set the height ? Again fantastic job on the videos.
Yeah! The default Avid CNC screen set in Mach 4 doesn't have this. You have to use the ATC Screen Set I made, or load the one that come's with Avid CNC called "wxRouter" (or something like that). You can go back to any other screen set after setting a tool height.
Hi, What is your routine for cutting say like a simple part, maybe a sq. pc of plywood, since your have a tool table and ATC. For setting the tool height on the work pc do you use the master tool dowel to get the height every time and then slip in the tool you want to use, or just use the tool you want to use for touch off, if you were to do it manually. Say a unique cutter that's not in your tool forks and only a one time shot. Does your ATC use the master tool dowel for all your touch offs in the normal way? Thanks a lot.
Hi Fritz. For most my jobs, I design them with the z-origin at the spoilboard, and I use offsets. So I never have to touch off anything, as it is just stored in the machine. I have a video about this: ruclips.net/video/iyP81afV-Io/видео.html . I usually use the spoilboard as my z-zero for work; the only case where I don't is when I want something relative to the top, and the thickness isn't well defined, and the cut depth is important. Such as, when engraving on the top of a piece.
When I do touch off, I can use any tool and the Avid touch plate. Using the 'master tool' is preferred because it will always be the same height. When using a normal tool bit, the bit may become worn, or it may pull out a bit, and the height may be shorter or longer, causing inconsistencies with other cuts.
When I put a bit in a new tool holder I do have to measure it. For that instance, I put my 4" height gauge down and drive the bit down until it reads zero, and then use "set tool height" in Mach 4 to set the tool height; the DRO for the tool height will be set to 4.0, the height of my gauge. I also have done this with the Avid touch plate; you can't use the touch routine, but manually drive down the bit until the light comes on showing it made contact.
It would be nice to add an auto height setter for unknown bit heights.
Once you have all the tools set up, can you use the avid auto touch plate like usual when you are zeroing the work cs before a job?
Yes! BUT with a bit gotcha: You have to use my custom screen set. The one that Avid provides has a huge bug in it, where if you use their touch off plate code it will crash. This is because they don't account for the tool height set in the tool table. I "work around" this in my screen set by disabling tool heights before their touch plate code is invoked, and then re-enabling it afterwards.
Good day Corbin. Great video series by the way. So i measured out my zbump and set it up for my ATC. It works amazing well with grabbing a tool, but when it goes to drop a tool off, the Z up doesnt quite account for how fast the tool push out goes and flexes my whole mount setup quite aggressively. Ive increases my rapid rate to 600 and even down as low as 50, and the problem remains constant. Not to sure whats up, or if im am being a dough head and completely missed a step. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
Hey Devon - I got your email and replied there, but I'll do a quick reply here too. The code doesn't do any z-bump for the tool drop off; I based it off CNC Depot's script, which didn't do it. I also have a pause after the release of the drawbar -- my spindle takes a second to release, and without the pause the spindle would start to rip my fork up and off. Your spindle might not need the pause, so try commenting out MCCntlGcodeExecuteWait("G04 P%.4f", 0.3) in the code for the release, but do so at your own risk (it might pull the fork up and out!).
Another idea is to combine the GCode to one call, which make Mach4 execute it "quicker", but I haven't tested this:
MCCntlGcodeExecuteWait("G04 P%.4f
G00 G90 G53 Z%.4f", 0.3, ZClearanceWithNoTool)
Corbin, Mach4 ver 5036 don't have a tool 0 on the tool table so where is the master tool now? Any thoughts?
Thank you, Fritz
There is no real tool 0; it is the reference for all other tools. It doesn't have an assigned height.
@@CorbinDunn OK, so the first setting just zero the Z axis, does that record reference? Or do I have to put the 0 tool# someplace?
@@fritzbabler6459 Ah, I see what is confusing! You put in tool 0 and you use that to touch off your Z-axis so to set z-zero with it. Then, you put in your bit, activate it, touch off with it, but don't reset z-zero. You then hit the button to set the height for it based on your touch plate height. This records its height relative to tool 0. Now, once you have a tool in your tool table, and that tool is "active", you can use it to touch off on your touch plate and set Z zero. The problem with this, eventually all tools wear and sometimes pull up/down, so it will cause inconsistencies. That's why everyone generally uses one "master tool 0". Mine is my Haimer.
I am doing dry runs on a sample gcode file and I see when I touch off the work pc and run the file, the tools are way off from where they are supposed to be cutting on depth. Doing my dry runs 5" from the spoil board so the 1/4" tool is cutting about 1/4" too shallow and the 1/2" is cutting about 1.5" too deep so I know there is a problem with the tool table. My other machine works fine using Mach3 for the past 15 years. I use fusion for my files and gcodes. I watched a few videos from mach support on setting up the tool table, and seems the 2 that's out there, which are different from Mach, don't calculate properly. I just don't get it. I set my tool heights and follow their video exactly and and I still get no proper tool depth cutting using the tool table.
@@fritzbabler6459 Yeah, your tool table is not correct if that is happening. You should be able to: activate tool 0, put it in the spindle, jog to right above your workpiece; it should read 0 (or a little above). Jog up, put in tool 1, activate it, which with my screen set activates the tool height with a G43, jog down to right above the workpiece, and it should read 0 or pretty close to it. If it doesn't...you have your height for it wrong.
Hi Sir,
I can see you are an expert..! I hope you can help me..!
Can you demystify some of my worries..?
There is lot of confusion regarding the reliability and consistency of mach3 as it is PC based and USB or Parallel port.! Lot of people say that it may behave funny in the middle of a project and it may ruin the entire job..!
which can be caused by slight voltage spikes from nearby high power accessories like VFD or Motors. And relying fully on PC for CNC operation is not recommended. I am so worried about all these..!
I am not sure how much immunity against such HF-RF Noise shielded cables can offer..!
But dedicated CNC controllers like Masso and RichAuto are insanely priced.! and I don't have access to USA or Euro Based other CNC Controllers here..!
People have also mentioned that If signal voltage is high (24v or higher) It can withstand such interferences..!
But mach3 operates at 5V only..! So there is high chance of signal contamination..!
Is that a huge concern..?
Mach3 Boards are affordable.
But If I cant use them for longer projects , then there is no point in spending money for all the parts which are still expensive..!
I am so worried..!
Secondly,
I have seen in videos that
The baud rate that mach3 communicates at , is not adequate to drive powerful servos..! !
So Only steppers at low power application is possible with Mach3.
That is so discouraging..!
Can you help me?
Hi! I'm only familiar with Mach 4 communicating to the CNC machine with ESS (Ethernet Smooth Stepper). Mach 3 is very outdated; don't use it. ESS seems quite stable and works well; you will want to use a shielded ethernet cable. You shouldn't have any noise issues if you use a shielded cable, and have a short run from your PC to the controller. I have heard of some people having issues due to having too slow of a PC; buy a computer that is adequately spec'ed; I spent $800 on mine, and it is great. I also heard of some people having static issues with their dust collection causing problems; I have lots of static build up; my tubes attract dust and particles, but I have not had issues with my CNC machine because of that. If you do, you can ground your dust collection tubes. Best of luck!
@@CorbinDunn thanks sir.
all this accuracy yet using a mdf spoil board that changes with humidity. why.
Sure, that's a good question! I haven't noticed any issues with mine changing, but I live in a relatively dry and low-humidity area, and run a de-humidifier to keep the humidity on the low side. I'm near Lake Tahoe, California. I've heard that some people who live in southern USA have pretty big issues with humidity.
What type of material are you using for your spoilboard?
was using MDF spoilboard was swelling and contracting worse then my ankles. switched over to extrusion. best decision i ever made, but then again im in ontario canada where the temp could be -20c up to 40 deg c. @@CorbinDunn