Cheers Simon, glad you enjoyed it 😃. I was pleasantly surprised by the 197, I may have to give the 195s a second chance, could've just been rough track to blame for the poor ride I experienced
Finally got round to watching this. I agree with seat and table comments. These are commuter units and are designed for regular high density use. What have is what they need. It will be interesting to see how they compare with the 197's once they get into service
Seeing the train pull in at 1:25, I can't help thinking that the accessibility requirement to have a colour contrast between the doors and the bodywork is kinda nullified by having bodywork at the carriage ends the same colour as the doors, so that the gap between carriages could be mistaken for the gap between doors by someone with a visual impairment...
I don't think the colour contrast quite works for accessibility purposes. Although they're vivid colours, together I don't think they contrast enough and as you say the contrasting front / driver door doesn't help
Great video, will miss the class 170's, but do agree the Class 196 is a improvement overall. I did not notice the armrests were missing, when I travelled on the Class 196 last Monday. 👍
Great video 196 do look nicer from what i have seen from this video but 170 is still great my local line just had this put on before it was the 156 so for me 170 was a big improvement for me and also emr are the only ones that do services to my station.
@@Rail_Focus yeah true maybe a good thing my line isn't that long and my line is the Barton to Cleethorpes line so the 170 is fine for that and I from ulceby so half to to both Cleethorpes and Barton.
TFW is the most reliable rail-service company during strike period. On 17.12.2022, NORTHERN cancelled Man Piccadilly to Man Ox. Road only but Ox.Road to Preston was still avaliable, then TFW and EMR helped everyone to broad that train.
An Aventra Bi-Mode family could be a great option reasuring the continuity of jobs in british trains manufacturing, what has not happened much due to massive importation during massive fleet modernisation. For instance Tyne and Wear Metro is Stadler imported with an Hitachi factory just miles away from Newcastle at Newton Aycliffe. Irony compared to class 197s produced in Newport CAF factory. West Midlands could give more chances to their Derby neighbours to produce more Turbostars though. Just my opinion. Thank you for another informative video.
That train class 170 is my favorite train on west midlands railway thanks to class 196 replaced it l want that train to be back on west midlands railway
Completely forgot about that, I thought they were a different design. Would be interesting to sample one of those to see if the damping is any more forgiving, especially as they're designed to reach 125mph
New light weight bogie design aplication on railway vehicles for passengers transport is making travel comfort very poor bearing in mind the rise on fares price. New seating model nicknamed Iron Board Seats is making this fact more evident. Never rode a Turbostar fitted with such bogies as they only run the West Midlands Railway territory excluding the Northwest region served with company's Desiro fleet ( so far the best in Britain ) but i suspect they might be much more comparable ride wise to the new CAF units. Apart ftom that Northern class 195 and TFW 197 have plenty of interior space, massive windows and very nice accelaration compared to Turbostars that have quite narrow body shell.
It said where I live before he started talking (We are now arriving at shifnal) Edit: I went on one of these on 6th April 2023 and the break sound is really weird
Personally think they should develop a Class 198 a single carriage version of this used for rural branch line routes to replace the Class 153s also I hope Northern seriously buy more Class 195s but they can be 195/2 with 4 carriages as there is really no use for 2 carriage services on the Leeds to Chester service.
The only issues though are that the DfT controls the purse strings (so, I think the best Northern will manage for the foreseeable future in terms of diesel traction is the 156s coming from EMR) and I suspect there isn’t much political will to order straight DMUs given the Net Zero commitments.
“0161bgs why not emr 158s they are more reliable and faster and have a cleaner engine.” EMR have signed an (I believe) 8-year lease to keep the 158s so that they have enough stock to run Liverpool-Norwich. But let’s not forget that the 15x won’t have decades left - they’ll probably be life-expired in 10 (max 15) years’ time. And also, the Northern-based Railforum users are always complaining “we don’t want EMR’s junk 158s!” haha. Aside from the 156s, Northern’s best shout of additional stock would be the 175s once they are surplus to TfW’s requirements.
Oh I know that they’re not junk - they’re solid units and I really like them. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they make it to 2040. I was more poking fun at Railforum users who use Northern and get very defensive of receiving so-called “junk” from EMR.
170 replacement could be the last pure DMUs ever purchased if the Government is still going ahead with the 2040 diesel ban. Be interested to see if any manufacturers are interested in building DMUs by then.
Unless battery or hydrogen technology advances significantly or more electrification takes place, there would be no choice other than to order DMUs. I think it’s quite possible that EMR’s future iteration could end up with enough 19x to replace the 170s once the current 19x operators switch to new electric-battery/electric-hydrogen bi-modes.
I do like the FLIRTs; but the DfT probably wouldn’t go for them due to cost. That seems to be king these days: EMR’s sister Abellio franchises WMR & GA got their new train orders in whilst quality was still a major criterion in new train procurement; but EMR’s fleet needs came slightly too late and consequently has ended up with a non-Intercity fleet consisting of ~20 year old cascaded trains with no refurbishments on the horizon. Ah well, you win some you lose some - looks like WMR won overall!
They desperately need more capacity on the Hereford to Birmingham line I go from Worcester to Stourbridge but when I see the Hereford train pull up especially in peak time, they get absolutely rammed, and only have 4 carriages
Why not do West Midlands Railway Class 196 vs Transport for Wales Class 197. CAF should manufacture more new trains including replacing older existing diesel trains used on Great Western Railway, South Western Railway, ScotRail, Southern and more Class 195 & Class 331 for Northern.
Southern is most likely to receive more third rail trackage and trains. The y won’t receive new DMUs in any case. Northern was supposedly looking at Civity bi-modes, similar to the class 195 & 331. I think they could use about 80 more units to replace the 150/156 units.
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Great video, enjoyed it, the Class 170s will he misses on West Midlands Services but the new trains are much better 👌
Cheers Simon, glad you enjoyed it 😃. I was pleasantly surprised by the 197, I may have to give the 195s a second chance, could've just been rough track to blame for the poor ride I experienced
Finally got round to watching this. I agree with seat and table comments. These are commuter units and are designed for regular high density use. What have is what they need. It will be interesting to see how they compare with the 197's once they get into service
I'm hopeful the seats on the 197s will be comfortable for the linger journeys, the ride quality certificate should be an issue
@@Rail_Focusthe class 170s are better than 197s
Seeing the train pull in at 1:25, I can't help thinking that the accessibility requirement to have a colour contrast between the doors and the bodywork is kinda nullified by having bodywork at the carriage ends the same colour as the doors, so that the gap between carriages could be mistaken for the gap between doors by someone with a visual impairment...
I don't think the colour contrast quite works for accessibility purposes. Although they're vivid colours, together I don't think they contrast enough and as you say the contrasting front / driver door doesn't help
5:09 one accessible toilet for the whole train
Not great.
Great video, will miss the class 170's, but do agree the Class 196 is a improvement overall. I did not notice the armrests were missing, when I travelled on the Class 196 last Monday. 👍
Thanks. I'm not sure if the 196 is a great DMU, but on balance will be an improvement over the 170.
Don't worry 170s are still with Northern and ScotRail
Great video 196 do look nicer from what i have seen from this video but 170 is still great my local line just had this put on before it was the 156 so for me 170 was a big improvement for me and also emr are the only ones that do services to my station.
The 170s are still good units, but the interiors are in dire need of a full refresh
@@Rail_Focus yeah true maybe a good thing my line isn't that long and my line is the Barton to Cleethorpes line so the 170 is fine for that and I from ulceby so half to to both Cleethorpes and Barton.
TFW is the most reliable rail-service company during strike period. On 17.12.2022, NORTHERN cancelled Man Piccadilly to Man Ox. Road only but Ox.Road to Preston was still avaliable, then TFW and EMR helped everyone to broad that train.
An Aventra Bi-Mode family could be a great option reasuring the continuity of jobs in british trains manufacturing, what has not happened much due to massive importation during massive fleet modernisation. For instance Tyne and Wear Metro is Stadler imported with an Hitachi factory just miles away from Newcastle at Newton Aycliffe. Irony compared to class 197s produced in Newport CAF factory. West Midlands could give more chances to their Derby neighbours to produce more Turbostars though. Just my opinion. Thank you for another informative video.
The 196s may not be perfect, but they appear to be adequate for the Birmingham to Shrewsbury and Hereford routes
Agreed, I think all in all they're decent units and mods passengers will be on them less than an hour
That train class 170 is my favorite train on
west midlands railway thanks to class 196 replaced it l want that train to be back on west midlands railway
West Midlands Railway sounds like the announcement on the Piccadilly line
2:00 don't also forget that the Class 397 is a civity as well.
Completely forgot about that, I thought they were a different design. Would be interesting to sample one of those to see if the damping is any more forgiving, especially as they're designed to reach 125mph
@@Rail_Focus They are pretty good and I have only ridden them between Manchester Airport and Bolton.
Are they able to go on the snow hill line?
I think the 196s will mostly work out of New St to Shrewsbury and Hereford.
New light weight bogie design aplication on railway vehicles for passengers transport is making travel comfort very poor bearing in mind the rise on fares price. New seating model nicknamed Iron Board Seats is making this fact more evident. Never rode a Turbostar fitted with such bogies as they only run the West Midlands Railway territory excluding the Northwest region served with company's Desiro fleet ( so far the best in Britain ) but i suspect they might be much more comparable ride wise to the new CAF units. Apart ftom that Northern class 195 and TFW 197 have plenty of interior space, massive windows and very nice accelaration compared to Turbostars that have quite narrow body shell.
I don't know why ironing board seats seems to be the norm these days, it is completely unnecessary
It said where I live before he started talking
(We are now arriving at shifnal)
Edit: I went on one of these on 6th April 2023 and the break sound is really weird
The actual brakes? Or when they're slowing down? It sounds almost like they're using engine braking, before the brakes are applied
Are you the Construction Gamer that builds Midlands to London series?
The very same 😁
Personally think they should develop a Class 198 a single carriage version of this used for rural branch line routes to replace the Class 153s also I hope Northern seriously buy more Class 195s but they can be 195/2 with 4 carriages as there is really no use for 2 carriage services on the Leeds to Chester service.
The only issues though are that the DfT controls the purse strings (so, I think the best Northern will manage for the foreseeable future in terms of diesel traction is the 156s coming from EMR) and I suspect there isn’t much political will to order straight DMUs given the Net Zero commitments.
@@brunaskarting116 why not emr 158s they are more reliable and faster and have a cleaner engine.
“0161bgs why not emr 158s they are more reliable and faster and have a cleaner engine.”
EMR have signed an (I believe) 8-year lease to keep the 158s so that they have enough stock to run Liverpool-Norwich. But let’s not forget that the 15x won’t have decades left - they’ll probably be life-expired in 10 (max 15) years’ time. And also, the Northern-based Railforum users are always complaining “we don’t want EMR’s junk 158s!” haha.
Aside from the 156s, Northern’s best shout of additional stock would be the 175s once they are surplus to TfW’s requirements.
@@brunaskarting116 the 158 isn't junk and according to officials they could see a max of 50 years in service
Oh I know that they’re not junk - they’re solid units and I really like them. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they make it to 2040.
I was more poking fun at Railforum users who use Northern and get very defensive of receiving so-called “junk” from EMR.
Nice semophores what station is that ?
Shrewsbury, home to the largest mechanic signal box in the country
@@Rail_Focus awesome epic signal box
I believe the class 196s are rated for much better acceleration and fuel efficiency than the 170s
I would imagine so, engines have come a long way in 20 years 👍
EMR passengers: this is a preview of what you’re potentially getting in 20 years’ time in order to replace (some of) the 170s.
170 replacement could be the last pure DMUs ever purchased if the Government is still going ahead with the 2040 diesel ban. Be interested to see if any manufacturers are interested in building DMUs by then.
Unless battery or hydrogen technology advances significantly or more electrification takes place, there would be no choice other than to order DMUs. I think it’s quite possible that EMR’s future iteration could end up with enough 19x to replace the 170s once the current 19x operators switch to new electric-battery/electric-hydrogen bi-modes.
@@brunaskarting116 I think the future will be a mix of battery IPEMUs and bi-modes, maybe more FLIRTs which wouldn't be a bad thing.
I do like the FLIRTs; but the DfT probably wouldn’t go for them due to cost. That seems to be king these days: EMR’s sister Abellio franchises WMR & GA got their new train orders in whilst quality was still a major criterion in new train procurement; but EMR’s fleet needs came slightly too late and consequently has ended up with a non-Intercity fleet consisting of ~20 year old cascaded trains with no refurbishments on the horizon. Ah well, you win some you lose some - looks like WMR won overall!
You went to go on a class 197?
Of course, eagerly awaiting their introduction.
Your title says “WRM” instead of “WMR”
Cheers for the heads-up, sometimes I get letters mixed up.
@@Rail_Focus no problem
They desperately need more capacity on the Hereford to Birmingham line
I go from Worcester to Stourbridge but when I see the Hereford train pull up especially in peak time, they get absolutely rammed, and only have 4 carriages
I think even when Class 196s are in service they'll still be 4 carriages, although I could be wrong.
Why not do West Midlands Railway Class 196 vs Transport for Wales Class 197. CAF should manufacture more new trains including replacing older existing diesel trains used on Great Western Railway, South Western Railway, ScotRail, Southern and more Class 195 & Class 331 for Northern.
Southern's 171 fleet is small and does not require replacement any time soon.
196/197 comparison could be interesting, hopefully the 197s will enter service soon.
Totally agree 👍
Southern is most likely to receive more third rail trackage and trains. The y won’t receive new DMUs in any case.
Northern was supposedly looking at Civity bi-modes, similar to the class 195 & 331. I think they could use about 80 more units to replace the 150/156 units.
@@andrewreynolds4949 Indeed
You mean WMR
I did 😉