What ministry roles can women fill in the church?
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- Опубликовано: 25 сен 2022
- What ministry roles has God appointed for women to fulfill in the life of the church? From one of our live events, Burk Parsons and W. Robert Godfrey address this important question biblically.
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Woman here. No worries, as intelligent as God has graced me, I have NO desires for titles or to be a preacher. I am very glad to take the lowest place in church and out of church. Have any of you scholars had this thought: The early church was heavily persecuted, and leaders of the church especially were singled out and put to death. Maybe one of the major reasons for women to stay out of leadership positions and titles was to PROTECT women, not because they were less graced with the capabilities of spiritual and intellectual capacities that go with church leadership. This Biblical instruction is sound then and now, and throughout history. All one has to do is look at the history of persecution. To some degree but not in all persecutions, women were shielded and protected. Unfortunately, today, the same level of protection and consideration is not afforded even in the best as it gets churches. Too much of the secular world and its views on women have been able to cave in on churches. The best reason not to have women in leadership roles in churches is that only half of the world population can twist and pervert the Word of God for their own vain and gain. I am grateful to all those who are keepers of preserving the Word of God. Ironically, women that are least interested in preserving the Word of God, are the ones becoming pastors alongside men who are least interested in preserving the Word of God and instead, all for using God's Word for their own vain and gain. Joel Osteen and his wife are so obvious. The dangerous false teachers are the ones that say just enough truth that only the very discerning and knowledgeable in God's Word can detect. One thing I can say about RC Sproul is that he left genuine men in leadership roles. There are few other Biblical based organizations that I have observed in this time, that has such a core board of pastor leadership so strong.
couldn't agree more 🙌
"The best reason not to have women in leadership roles in churches is that only half of the world population can twist and pervert the Word of God for their own vain and gain." And by that you mean men, right?
Well said. 100% agree.
Women’s best position are most profound and impactful will always be to serve her husband, children, home. While single women could serve the church. Their calling isn’t to be in an office, but to be wives, mothers.
And those who can't and don't have children?
A Christian friend of mine told me because man and woman are cleaved as one, this is the reason a woman can be a co-pastor with her husband. I don’t agree that that’s what the Bible teaches.
Your friend is wrong. Please follow the Scriptures (the Word of God).
Yeah, I don't either. The Bible is so clear it is shouting out loud doing jumping jacks
@PowdaPuff you can take that same argument men and women cleaved together and come up with all kinds of heresy. For example how about no gender differences if we are cleaved together as one? That’s reading into the text and ignoring the clear texts from Paul.
In all honesty your friend is confused ) There is an order to Gods creation; there is a structure to the relationships between men and women that is built into the very fabric of things. God made Adam first and Eve to be his helper, and both to rule over the rest of the creation. The very essence of Adam and Eves sin was their overturning of this order yet here many are trying to do just that again, just read through the comments )
Under Christ's authority, and through his word to us in 1 Tim 2:11-12, we are told that woman ought not to teach or have this authority over men. Teaching a man is wrong because by teaching him, the woman enters into a relationship of authority over him. By teaching the man, the woman is falling into Eve's error- turning the order of creation upside down. Teaching is the flip side of learning "quietly with all submissiveness" v11. Eve's sin involved overturning the order of creation and teaching her husband !!. Similarly, Adams sin came from listening to his wife in the sense of heeding and following her instructions. He allowed himself to be taught by her, thereby putting himself under her authority and reversing Gods good ordering of creation.
The teaching in 1 Timothy 2:18-15 and elsewhere has implications today and those that seek to implement their own agenda are not being obedient to Gods word and his instructions to his church and we all know how that worked out for Adam and Eve and the rest of humanity.
Talk about trying to find a loophole!
Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15). They excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving.
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. 🙏✝️
Well put, for a while I was struggling comprehending this and kept asking God why this is so? Anyways, I watched a John MacArthur sermon and he said that women were given a curse to be subject to their husband. The verses that speak against Woman speaking in church isn’t misinterpreted but instead is just a law in the Bible.
That is not standing behind the pulpit as a spiritual leader. Two different things.
@@JeffreyStrader what ?
thank you
Over their husbands, not all men.
Outstanding answer. Thank you.
What's outstanding about it? The two men who spoke, on this matter, gave vague answers, which appear to compromise the Word of God (Christ).
@@rhondae8222 Sister, these men spoke exactly what's written in the Word of God. I pray that God throws away your pride so that you would see the truth.
Love Ligonier ministry
Excellent, clear, Scripture based answer. I so appreciate Pastor Parson's wisdom, clarity, and passion for the church and her members and polity. Thank you for these Q and A's! One of my favorite parts of Ligonier conferences!
Hawayu Ligonier Ministries *& I Say Thanks 🙏 2 Pst. Burk Parsons & Pst. W. Robert Geodfrey 4 Answering This Powerful, Blessful, Deep Question on "What Ministry Roles Can Women Fill In The Church ?" Where I Say That Althu I Agree 💯% With What Pst. Burk Parsons & Pst. W. Robert Geodfrey Have Said, I Disagree 2 Agree Only With What Pst. Burk Parsons Especially What He Has Said About Women Deacons Because In My Presbyterian Church I Worship, We've Deacons Who are Women Where I Say That This Issue of Whether Women Can Be Preachers, Pastors, Bishops, Evangelists, Reverends & Deacons Has Divided The Church & Continues 2 Divide The Church Because Apostle Paul Says In 1st Timothy 2:12 That He Suffers Women Not 2 Preach But 2 Remain In Silence 4 This Issues of Roles Women Can Fill In Ministry & Whether Women Can Preach Divides The Church In a Bad Way & Unchristian Way Untill It Becomes a Gender Issue In The Church & The Body of Christ When It Shouldn't* & God Bless Yu Pst. Burk Parsons, Pst. W. Robert Geodfrey & Ligonier Ministries So Veryyyyyy, Veryyyyyy Much.🙏🙏🕊️🕊️🕊️
Why are all of these men sitting there, with only two of them speaking, and while all the others are silent on this subject?
Its only a few mins of a broader lengthier time... they are quite curious, if you listen wo the whole session!
Saddened to hear what R.C. Sprouls successor said.
Yes!!
I attended 2 churches with women pastors
This was a great response until about 4:38 . (I agree with their stance on Elders and am still discerning deacons) I agree that the title should not be the goal, but this response goes for men as well as women so how does this resolve the dispute? The emotion plea of we shouldn't aim for a title except if you are man then it's okay go for the title of deacon? One one hand to women we say don't worry about the title keep serving as God is directing, but on the other hand to men we say I see you serving as God is directing. Want to be a deacon?
Phoebe
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
At the end of Romans, Paul mentions about 24 people.
Phoebe is the first to be mentioned.
Translation is NIV, and is also correct, regarding the word 'deacon'.
Strongs Number: G1249
I think you may have missed the point of my comment. I’ve done the reading I am aware of Paul’s writing. I just find the ended comments on this clip to be lacking in comparison to the rest. I lean more to women being able to be deacons but I always allow scriptures to interpret my beliefs. This man was stating he believes women should not be deacons and then leaned into emotion… I found that odd.
@@aelihn2109 Ok. I didn't watch the video but am familiar
with this topic.
I often go back to Deborah on such matters. Her authority
far exceeded that of any pastor/elder/deacon today. Today
men teach men that certain sins are against God. Deborah
judged individual men or their own sins and pronounced
verdicts. If a man would not accept the verdict of a judge,
the penalty was execution.
I did a short essay on Deborah and the Holy Spirit should
you wish it pasted in.
Sue Nzisa zisa Ndeti come over here
QUESTION: Is it ok if a woman reads the scripture reading for a service??
(I haven't seen this video, but am familiar with this matter.)
Complementarianism is a false teaching. At its center
it supports a two-tiered priesthood based on birthright.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood...
-excerpt 1 Peter 2
Reply for my full post 'Complementarianism' if desired.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually.
@@user-iz8np3vv4iyou're in a cult😅
Think about it this way: if you need to ask, you probably already know the answer…
Yes! It's ok to read the scripture and serve in ministry, the male LEADERSHIP is not the same as females serving
Of course, women can pray, prophesy and read scripture in church. The restriction is on spiritual leadership over a mixed congregation not about not making a single decibel or giving notices/updates on life of the church or reading the passage the pastor will be teaching on. In all honesty I think it's good if women DO read scripture in the front at church, it shows complementarianism not as an oppressive thing but an expression of the uniqueness between men and wome
Parsons👍
So, if ministry == service, why don't we talk about service roles that women can fill in the church, and reserve the word "ministry" for the specific ministry of Word. I find that too many folks use the word ministry as if it is the same as that of the ministry of the Word. It isn't, and this is what tingles my spidey sense. I appreciate the commentary. We need to be careful - there is a consistent push in our churches to have women hold office.
What is your view on Phoebe who the apostle Paul referred to in Romans chapter 1,
"I commend unto you Phebe our sister which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchre..." Was she a deaconess?
Romans 16.1 This is a a clear and BIBLICAL example that women can serve as deacons in the church yet these guys deny it. The apostle Paul (who these guys look up to) even commended this woman as a leader for serving in the church.
For every man that I know that serves faithfully in a church theres 10 women that do the same. That’s why I think men feel threatened by women. It’s a pride thing if you ask me.
@@qlq6826 And thank you for the correction.
First, I gently urge you to look deeper into what Paul says . The translation of the language and the context are vital important.
God has used women when there have been no godly men to take on the role. A study of early church history bears this out.
Why some women see this as such a negative issue is just beyond me.
@@Jesusmyhopeofglory What negativity are you referring to? The Greek word "diakonos" is used in Romans 16, right?
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. In verse 18, Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, suggesting to some that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. (The detail of whose name comes first is probably inconsequential, because in verses 2 and 26 the order is reversed from that of verse 18.) Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14.
In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9).
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13-14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and in the church.
TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART , AND LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING . PROVERBS 3 : 5 KJV
Decons. Explain Phoebe and how Paul commended her. You cannot pick and choose the verses that you want to support your argument, but you need to acknowledge those verses that do not support your Biblical truths. You would also have to explain Deborah and Pricilla. Where does elders come up in the Bible?
As well as Junia and many others.
you can immediately understand that the men sitting in this panel are traditional conservatives and worthy of trust - black socks :D no colored squares, dolphins or butterflies :D love it :D (Voddie Baucham is an exception, love him also :D )
Actually women can be deacons Matthew 14 cant remember the scripture but in english it says this woman ministered. In greek its actually diekonie which means deaconed. So yes women can deacon
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
At the end of Romans, Paul mentions about 24 people.
Phoebe is the first to be mentioned.
Translation is NIV, and is also correct, regarding the word 'deacon'.
Strongs Number: G1249
serious misquoting of Titus 2:2-4 older women are to teach younger women to love their husbands and children. since ligonier has taken scripture out of context, can this be the reason for 60,000,000 abortions in the united states as older women have not taught the younger women to love their children and to work at home as stated in Titus 2:2-4. well then maybe post covid women can as at least now work at home now!
What roles can women fill in the church? This VERY diverse panel seems to have decided that speaking on a panel for themselves isn't one of them. 🙄
God bless! You've really made my day!
!!!
Starts sounding a bit insecure starting at 4:40. Meet Deacon Phoebe in Romans 16:1 and think kingdom in Galatians 3:28
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
They can serve but not be called deacons sounds contradictory to me. He is doing the gymnastics here. I agree they can not be pastors or teach in the congregation. Because I read that in the bible.
I understand what he's saying....i trujy believe women are allowed to preach (1st understanding what preaching is) CHRIST commanded all to go out & make disciples as HE stated to HIS disciples as a model & decree for all new concverts & believers & followers of CHRIST. But certain offices are assigned to men as a order of decree not for man to lord themselves arrogantly over the opposite gender in a negative manner & furthermore preaching is simply proclaiming the truth of the gospel messages & the decrees of GOD & we are called to do that....the Samaritan woman story is great prime example-without her evangelic preaching of this man (CHRIST THE LORD) those in the village would not have come forth in such great number in which they did & it was due to her going & sharing the truths that GOD HIMSELF shared with her....( she preached it conveyed it to the community in which she came from) she didn't hold a title per say but she did perform a sevice in which we all are called to do. So certain offices are set a part, but we all are called to do a universal service =proclaiming the truths of GOD & about GOD through our words & actions.
Christ did not give that commission to "all believers and converts". He specifically gave it to to the men who eventually became apostles, and to a certain degree, the evangelists. Under no circumstances do the lay Christians have any authority to make disciples, and you won't find any biblical evidence for it neither.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 the principle is implied....you don't think for a second that we are not to supposed to share the gospel message to all as instruments in GOD'S plan in redemption of man? & or we not supposed to speak edifying words to one another building up, holding each other accountable for obeying trues, are not to rebuke & correct meekly those who oppose the gospel as well as our own brothers & sisters in order that those who are in opposition may experience the mercy of GOD & HE grant them repentance & lead them to the knowledge of truth, are we not ambassadors who are in the Kingdom of GOD & if so what are our job duties, or we not ministers of reconciliation....i can go on and on & in that the principle of discipline ( discipline followers of CHRIST) is clearly conveyed throughout scripture & the message to the original disciples is also applied to us today...are we not disciples...i am
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 there are quite a few scripture & principle to validate this stance
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 why do we baptize? Did CHRIST commission that to only the original disciples?
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Yes. God forbid all lay people share, preach the Gospel and people become disciples of Christ. Very Godly and Biblical and Christ-like stand.
Devon means ΔΙΑΚΟΝΟΣ=HE WHO SERVES. Ask a Greek who has been educated in Greece.
In all practicality, they didn't really answer the question
Agreed. I received mixed answers from these guys. Why can't they answer biblical questions in layman's terms or with a yes or no?
I believe that both Godfrey and Parsons failed at delivering the truth of this matter. Their answers were somewhat confusing. They almost sound as if they were trying to compromise God's Word to try and justify women being the head of the church. This is the very reason I mainly listen to the biblical teachings of Dr. R.C. Sproul and Dr. John MacArthur.
I don't know of I'd say that much but, nobody on the entire panel spoke up to answer the question
The answer is: Women may not preach or teach men in church but women can serve in a church.
@@polasboek yeah but like what serving roles in the church can they have
From a practical standpoint they didn't answer
Q: What ministry roles can women fill in the church?
A: women can serve in the church
That answer is very unsatisfactory
Man they are really going to lose me with these talking points trying to justify woman as preachers
Agreed
We don't care to lose you. We care about the Holy Spirit and what He said about God's daughters, who preached time and again in the Bible, whether it hurts your sensibilities or not.
He said women can’t be deacons, Elders, Pastors, …. But never really said plainly that women can’t preach in all honesty they know women can’t preach! He basically telling them that! Without being so rough and hard with it! They all know women can’t preach …. But women are to teach the children and younger women had to behave and even open the book expound on the word of God in the home! I know my mom always made me read the word and we would have prayer daily. But she never really spoke on the word.
Your statement is true; however, they (Godfrey and Parson) should be bold in teaching the Word of God (Christ) and to leave no room for error and confusion.
You are definitely NOT John the Baptist.
Is he really saying woman can be ministers
Had Dr. R.C. Sproul been speaking on this matter, he would have made it very clear that the Bible states that women are forbidden to be leaders of the church.
What does Paul say 1Cor, 1Tim, Titus2, Acts18...?
Yes. But they may not preach or teach men
More aptly put an evangelist. All Gods elect should be spreading the gospel.
He seems to go either way
Why are there no women on this panel?
What difference would it make? They're preaching from the word of God, not speaking their personal desires.
"They are being silent in the church." LOL
@@zanykangaroo if you think women wouldn't add depth and value and perspective, and that there is only one view of the Word of God, I feel sorry for you. Try and be a bit more mature, and honest.
WOMEN CAN NOT STAND BEHIND THE PULPIT AS A SPIRITUAL LEADER.............That is 100% BIBLE!
Humble service...54 years on this planet and I've yet to find a self controlled from trying to control, humble woman.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, yet a saying to husbands: you want to be right, or happy?, proves this...sad.
How many women Require their husbands to lie to them?-do I look fat in this?-men have only said truth once, never again since wife will punish husband in some fashion... that's a reason I've never married.
Doug Wilson teaches that you must never lie to your wife. By refusing to ever lie to hurt, you’ll inevitably hurt her feelings, but this is normal. Women are more emotional and sentimental than men, and this is as God designed. Godly women want men with backbones; they want men they can’t so easily manipulate or bend. Soft men will fall for the bait women give:
(“Do I look fat in this dress?” “Do you think that woman over there is pretty?” “You didn’t remember it was our anniversary until AFTER you got out of the shower, not as soon as you woke up!”)
They need Godly men who will lead them based on what’s right, not on the whim of their emotions.
@@1Whipperin No, that's part of my point....you ever hear of husbands teaching the bible regularly to their wives & children like in Deuteronomy?
Not saying its not happening somewhere, but I've never heard of it in my lifetime, maybe because teachers will be judged more harshly? Perhaps because the church agreed with husbands leaving the farm type life, go punch a clock somewhere else for the" American dream"/keeping up with the Jones's?
Saliently obvious is your bitterness and resentment toward women and lumping all women together like half the world population is a lockstep monolith has nothing to do with you never being married. I can tell self-control has alluded you, along with self-examination. You might consider spending more time reading and studying the Bible and praying to God while doing some serious self-examination. You must be this obvious on and off social media and it's unwittingly sparing that you wave red flags like a pro.
@@1Whipperin Yup, state schools have the youth 6+ hours a day, sleep 8 +/-, tv/social media/music 8 +/-, bathroom, eating and travel the rest...1 hour-church, maybe 2 if Sunday school is attended...once a week...
I remember when I could at least get 2 services every Sunday...not many places like that anymore... Sad.
22 years of being a senior pastor and God bless the ministry… hands down…. I was Called…. And what a marvelous life obeying God… it’s rare to see a woman preacher, but God can do this gentleman
@CR Rare?? They’re throughout the disobedient church. Methodist, Roman Catholic, PCA, Episcopal, LCA. Every liberal denomination started with women pastrix’s and are now ordaining open homosexuals.
It’s clear in scripture and I shouldn’t have to tell you that Paul teaches a clear no. There are more verses that can be written here. Peter refers to Paul’s writings as scripture as well as Paul himself says his words are from the Lord.
The sinful world system teaches unless women do everything a man does they aren’t equal. That’s a lie from Satan. Women are equal in worth to God but he made an order for all creation to be good in his sight. If the Trinity itself has an order Father, Son, Holy Spirit but is equal in essence why do we finite creatures think we know better than God? We need to repent of our pride and submit to God’s word. 🙏
@@Savedbygrace22 so sad to see a fellow Christian come across so harshly…. 22 years of faithful service and when I stand before my precious savior, I will hear, well done thou good and faithful servant, I hope you are next in line to hear it…. I was called, served faithfully…. Righty dividing the word of truth… I was not in the liberal churches you named…. Just retired and seeking our lord for his next assignment…. See at the throne!
@CR where is your husband?
@@jenniferogbuagu3202 home with Jesus
And where is your husband?
Why do these men feel the need to be dressed so formally? Corporate America gave it up 20 years ago.
Do you not think God is worthy of our very best?
Just because the standards of dress have gone down so dramatically does not make it a good thing.
@@Jesusmyhopeofglory Amen!
Because, those who follow Christ are in the world, not of the world. "Corporate America" is of the world and secular. Those who follow Christ, are not of the world nor do we follow the world and what the world does. Monkey see, monkey do is of the world. We are seeing a lot of monkey see, monkey do in the mass media driven secular world. These men are speaking for God and honoring God in the way that they dress. I like wearing jeans when walking the dog but when I go to church, I dress up to honor God and praise God at a worship service. Not everyone at church does dress up and that's their choice. God sees into every heart. I do not question why these people wear jeans to church. They are at church regularly worshiping God.