Have you seen the Marvel comic adaptation of The Stand? It's really fascinating to see where they hewed closer to the books and where the influence of the 1994 miniseries was obvious. Also a niche plug for the fact that the artists actually studied Boulder and used local landmarks for reference. It's the kind of thing that can only conceivably matter to someone who lived in Boulder at some point, but I did, years ago, so I appreciated the detail lol.
I'll have to track that down. I've never been to Boulder but I completely understand how much an accurate representation of a story's setting can help ground it. I first read the Emberverse books while living in Western Oregon and a few scenes really worked amazingly well knowing the terrain.
I could sense Stephen King’s endings were bad the first time I saw “IT”, and later, reinforced with “The Tommyknockers” and “The Langoliers”. I didn’t realize exactly what the problem was, until my own attempts at writing, followed by reading Stephen King’s “On Writing”, contrasting it against a documentary on “Back to the Future”. King has always written a story from beginning to end, just cranking through the story’s plot in a linear progression, without the ending figured out. In comparison, Bob Gale and Bob Zemeckis used a 3x5 card approach, defining the ending of BTTF first, and working backwards, so nothing overshadows the climax.
King's approach has its strengths, particularly from the character side. His characters can be very well developed in part through that sort of aimless style where they do things that fit the character rather than serving the plot. But yeah, it's hard not be anticlimactic with that approach.
It also shows in the opening act why all power structures are doomed to fail, their fatal weakness being that they are made up of autonomous individuals. These individuals have their own needs and wants and there eventually comes a point when the hierarchy's goals and those of its members no longer align, and when that becomes the case the members invariably act in their own interest. It's why authorities have always placed such an emphasis on things like Duty, Honor, and Loyalty to try and get people to push aside their own interests just that little bit more so their leaders and institutions can have a smidge more control.
I've been reading the Dark Tower graphic novels lately. Based on this video, I'm surprised that Randall Flagg even has the capacity to show weakness or cowardice. He's such a great, connivingly unstoppable villain in DT.
I've only read parts of the Dark Tower books, but I kind of want to go back for a specific comparison of DT Flagg with v1.0 late '70s Flagg from the Stand.
@@Ghoulonoid there is a good reason for this, and that is they were supposed to be, but eventually got retconned into being R.F probably one of my least favorite changes to King's universe
1. Ray Walston's best dramatic role 2. When originally written, and perhaps during the revision, King was an active alcoholic, so might help explain his crap endings. I think that has been established as his firm writing path, even after he got sober.
That, and King doesn't outline his stories. He's often talked about not wanting character development to be forced into plot constraints, which I get, but it makes for kinda trash endings if you don't know where the story you're writing is going.
First read the stand at age 14 (1982). Even then it freaked me out, my high school played at (& against) Dugway High (where if it happened things would start). Last time I re-read the book (2017?) Right after I finished it my volunteer ambulance training was pandemic protocols. The Stand is the only King novel I'll read as I've realized he HATES humanity. Laughing (ridicule) is the best way to face those in power. I'd lo😂ve to see you talk about Stirling's emberverse in the future.
Thanks for covering this one. I liked the 1994 version a great deal, recorded it on VHS, and watched it several times back when I still had the ability to watch VHS tapes. I didn't watch the 20220-21 version because we were all living through The Stand Lite and what could fiction do against that? I like what you said about the power of choice, of all the characters having to choose where, when, and to whom, as they took their stand. People have always made conscious choices to serve good or evil, to serve wise rulers or greedy tyrants. It made me always a little surprised when Flagg's minions were so shocked when he turned out to be a double-dealer, but then I had been dragged to Sunday School and church services for years, so I knew that the Devil always gets his due. As for the end, yes it seems a little forced, but I think King really hadn't thought of a way for Flagg to be defeated, and he needed an actual victory to go along with the moral victory of the chosen ones. Crunch time was there, so he bit the bullet, made an ending, and sent it to editing. Hey, it works for me, as a Christian anyways. The government thought they had the power, the Council thought they had the power, Flagg thought he had the power, but in the end the real Power intervened.
It begins with the beautiful thumbnails. Then your fascinating voice, the interesting location choices, media education and at the resolution I am learnt, turnt with my illusions burnt
Are you related to Matt Frewer? I knew your voice and delivery reminded me of someone, but I couldn't figure out who. Seeing Frewer in the 1994 Stand, it finally hit me!
@@feralhistorian I recently discovered your channel and have been binge watching. I was thinking either Frewer or Dwight Schultz (Murdock from the A-Team TV series). Love your work, no matter which celebrities you are or aren't related to.
Intellectuals don't think elitist-pluralism is tyrannical. They only recognize middle-class populist politics that way, hyperbolically calling milder forms of nationalism/conservatism ”fascism" without much differentiation.
Love the novel. I think Larry is my favorite character, but Harold is great too, one of King’s best non-paranormal villains-Big Jim Renny in Under the Dome is his best, imo. I’ll have to try the 90s adaptation. I tried to watch the 2021 adaptation, but it just pissed me off.
It would be nice to have your take on Clifford Simak's works. I've always found them both wholesome, kind, but sometimes acutely depressing as his endings are sometimes pretty bleak for humanity as we know it
@@feralhistorian I hope you find him worth a video once you're done. When I was a child, I literally inhaled his books, and reread them now from time to time. There's heavy peacenik vibes, which is understandable given the time period, and quite some disappointment in humanity as is. His robots (to me) are ones of the most memorable in sci-fi (just like Isaac Asimov's, Ian M. Banks', and Neal Asher's are), and his aliens are quite peculiar. I would like to thank you for your work; while your viewership is strangely low, you should know you are very much appreciated for both the content and the visuals.
I like The Stand, although Robert McCammon's Swan Song is more my speed as apocalyptic epics go. Very similar stories, but Swan Song being post-nuclear means we get giant mutant creatures, and Swan Song features a masked pro wrestler among its heroes and the dog is a heroic pit bull instead of sweet but kind of boring golden retriever. McCammon tends to be a better plotter than King, too.
I rather like this story, as well as many of the earlier works of Steven King. I also kind of like the '94 miniseries as well, and even though I had read the book before I saw it (I was still a child at the time, incidentally), I can't help but imagine the appearance and sound of the actors who played the parts in the miniseries, though for some they weren't there, or for Harold that just doesn't work until after he lost weight.
My problem with the modern interpretation and the very use of "power structures" bothers me as someone who keeps his focus on pre-industrial history. The obsession with power structures is bound to the industrial wars and atrocities that we saw during the 19th and 20th centuries. And it always finds a way to link itself to Hitler. But the reality is that there is always going to be... power. Positions of power and people in power. This is inevitable. Even if we were to somehow achieve fantasy Anarchy, to wipe the whole thing clean and start fresh and all were to be equal in material possessions, some dude would inevitably gather a bunch of other dudes, and there we go again. Everything that has always been, has been with the tip of a blade or barrel of a gun. A Constitution guaranteeing individual rights and liberties is a worthless piece of paper if it does not have the guns to be enforced. A Court to provide good and proper justice can only function if it is backed up by force. ------------------------ If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. - James Madison. ------------------------- And also, the quote "power corrupts" is horrid and nonsensical. And so I am glad that you use the more appropriate here, which is that positions of power attracts the corrupt. There have been a great many good men through history who have wielded extraordinary power. And yet they stayed good and they did good with that power. The question is, who do you put in charge? And how do you choose them? And for this, both hereditary succession and universal democracy has proven itself entirely worthless. And has only given us monsters of various types and degrees. Yet, the question of Totalitarianism in all its forms. Whether it is a central strongman, or a populist demagogue, or an overpowering and all-consuming bureaucratic structure using universal suffrage as a tool for their own legitimacy and mass consumerism to dull the masses. Now those are certainly things that should be despised and confronted wherever it comes to be. But that is not a question of power. This is the question of complete and total power. Of reducing the individual down to nothing but an insect. ------------------- “In the hive and the ant-hill we see fully realised the two things that some of us most dread for our own species - the dominance of the female and the dominance of the collective.” - C.S. Lewis.
The first apocalypse level "flu kills 99% of the world" novel I recall reading was Earth Abide (George R. Steward 1949). King seems to have copied someone else's homework.
I think the '94 one is better. It's certainly got its flaws, but if your only experience of The Stand is that mini-series you'd have a good sense of what it's about, who the characters are, and the major story beats even if some big details were changed. The remake is oddly less memorable. Most of what I remembered about that one were things that they changed for the worse.
I read both versions of the book and saw the 90s adaptation. Typical King- interesting premise, failed delivery in all 3 formats I engaged. Perhaps you should, some day deal with writers and/or filmmakers whose visions start off with good ideas and never cohere into quality entertainment, much less art. They can get it up, but never come. In this group would be King, Ellison, and esp Dick. If you wanna stretch the genre boundary you can toss in Pynchon, as well. I'd add John Carpenter, Tim Burton, and Spielberg on the film side.
Almost every Stephen King book I've ever started, I end up abandoning about halfway. I get his whole thing about letting the characters develop naturally without being forced into plot constraints, but it absolutely makes for fizzling story resolutions. PK Dick definitely. His stuff always strikes me as story notes that he always meant to come back to. Often fascinating ideas, but then he's off to the next thing. On the film side, I tend to hold Carpenter at a higher level than Burton or Spielberg, if only because Carpenter usually has one idea he's trying to get across and he goes for it. It's not always satisfying or elegant, but it's there.
Regarding Burton, even the X-Files, in the episode, "The Post-Modern Prometheus" ripped into his just hanging there endings, especially _Edward Scissorhands_
I despise the book and tv shows. I have never found Kings books written in a manor of planned genius. I found The Stand is a pointless story and even moreso with pointless charcters. Every single charcter is just there going through the motions. If you want an excellent apocalyptic horror novel read Swan Song by Robert R MacCammon. Its excellent...surpases King in every aspect.
You have some great content. if you toned down the political crap - especially the right-wing dogwhistles - you'd have way more than 300 views in ten hours. But as it stands, i'm not even five minutes in and its already getting annoying, so I'm going to watch someone who doesn't.
Fair enough. Though in my experience the whole "dog whistle" thing usually means someone is making 6 layers of assumptions. I don't think making a quip about Covid policy being an over-reaction can realistically be considered political or controversial at this point.
Have you seen the Marvel comic adaptation of The Stand? It's really fascinating to see where they hewed closer to the books and where the influence of the 1994 miniseries was obvious.
Also a niche plug for the fact that the artists actually studied Boulder and used local landmarks for reference. It's the kind of thing that can only conceivably matter to someone who lived in Boulder at some point, but I did, years ago, so I appreciated the detail lol.
I'll have to track that down. I've never been to Boulder but I completely understand how much an accurate representation of a story's setting can help ground it. I first read the Emberverse books while living in Western Oregon and a few scenes really worked amazingly well knowing the terrain.
Holy cap, man. I just found your channel and your content is fantastic. I don't know how you don't have more subs!
I could sense Stephen King’s endings were bad the first time I saw “IT”, and later, reinforced with “The Tommyknockers” and “The Langoliers”.
I didn’t realize exactly what the problem was, until my own attempts at writing, followed by reading Stephen King’s “On Writing”, contrasting it against a documentary on “Back to the Future”.
King has always written a story from beginning to end, just cranking through the story’s plot in a linear progression, without the ending figured out.
In comparison, Bob Gale and Bob Zemeckis used a 3x5 card approach, defining the ending of BTTF first, and working backwards, so nothing overshadows the climax.
King's approach has its strengths, particularly from the character side. His characters can be very well developed in part through that sort of aimless style where they do things that fit the character rather than serving the plot.
But yeah, it's hard not be anticlimactic with that approach.
You are the most engaging critic on RUclips I've come across. Thanks for the effort and expertise. Life enhancing
Post-COVID, (post- 9/11, really), I find that a LOT of things wind up spelling 'misanthropy.'
Ain't that the truth.
This has been happening forever. Post WW2 japanese media. Artworks from the plague eras. Every major human malady spawns an era of misanthropic art.
Ain't whislin Dixie
M.O.O.N.
That spells good video.
It also shows in the opening act why all power structures are doomed to fail, their fatal weakness being that they are made up of autonomous individuals. These individuals have their own needs and wants and there eventually comes a point when the hierarchy's goals and those of its members no longer align, and when that becomes the case the members invariably act in their own interest. It's why authorities have always placed such an emphasis on things like Duty, Honor, and Loyalty to try and get people to push aside their own interests just that little bit more so their leaders and institutions can have a smidge more control.
Its always great to find someone you agree with, but who sees things in a new and interesting way. Subbed.
I am become algorithm, sustainer of channels
More like destroyer of channels😂
I AM the engagement!
I am viewer, the main power source of the algorithm...without me you are nothing.
Star Trek 5: “Why would god need a starship?”
The Stand: god uses an atomic bomb to kill the devil?
I've been reading the Dark Tower graphic novels lately. Based on this video, I'm surprised that Randall Flagg even has the capacity to show weakness or cowardice. He's such a great, connivingly unstoppable villain in DT.
I've only read parts of the Dark Tower books, but I kind of want to go back for a specific comparison of DT Flagg with v1.0 late '70s Flagg from the Stand.
Would probably have to do that in stages. Early book Flagg and later books Flagg might as well be different characters.
@@Ghoulonoid there is a good reason for this, and that is they were supposed to be, but eventually got retconned into being R.F
probably one of my least favorite changes to King's universe
Finish the series. It’s great. No spoilers
1. Ray Walston's best dramatic role
2. When originally written, and perhaps during the revision, King was an active alcoholic, so might help explain his crap endings. I think that has been established as his firm writing path, even after he got sober.
That, and King doesn't outline his stories. He's often talked about not wanting character development to be forced into plot constraints, which I get, but it makes for kinda trash endings if you don't know where the story you're writing is going.
He hates humanity so a positive ending is out of the question but he's in denial so he can't write a decent dark ending either.
Loving the channel hopefully you get the views and subscribers your level of quality deserves.
There's a tortoise-like quality to the channel. Slow but steady.
First read the stand at age 14 (1982). Even then it freaked me out, my high school played at (& against) Dugway High (where if it happened things would start). Last time I re-read the book (2017?) Right after I finished it my volunteer ambulance training was pandemic protocols.
The Stand is the only King novel I'll read as I've realized he HATES humanity.
Laughing (ridicule) is the best way to face those in power.
I'd lo😂ve to see you talk about Stirling's emberverse in the future.
I'm working on some Emberverse stuff. It's taking a lot longer to write than it should, but it's on the plate.
I recommended your channel in a scifi fan group on Facebook (related to the "Monster Hunter International " series)
Thanks for covering this one. I liked the 1994 version a great deal, recorded it on VHS, and watched it several times back when I still had the ability to watch VHS tapes. I didn't watch the 20220-21 version because we were all living through The Stand Lite and what could fiction do against that? I like what you said about the power of choice, of all the characters having to choose where, when, and to whom, as they took their stand. People have always made conscious choices to serve good or evil, to serve wise rulers or greedy tyrants. It made me always a little surprised when Flagg's minions were so shocked when he turned out to be a double-dealer, but then I had been dragged to Sunday School and church services for years, so I knew that the Devil always gets his due. As for the end, yes it seems a little forced, but I think King really hadn't thought of a way for Flagg to be defeated, and he needed an actual victory to go along with the moral victory of the chosen ones. Crunch time was there, so he bit the bullet, made an ending, and sent it to editing. Hey, it works for me, as a Christian anyways. The government thought they had the power, the Council thought they had the power, Flagg thought he had the power, but in the end the real Power intervened.
Comparing this to the feudalism video is... very interesting.
It begins with the beautiful thumbnails. Then your fascinating voice, the interesting location choices, media education and at the resolution I am learnt, turnt with my illusions burnt
Are you related to Matt Frewer? I knew your voice and delivery reminded me of someone, but I couldn't figure out who. Seeing Frewer in the 1994 Stand, it finally hit me!
No relation, but you're not the first to ask.
@@feralhistorian I recently discovered your channel and have been binge watching. I was thinking either Frewer or Dwight Schultz (Murdock from the A-Team TV series).
Love your work, no matter which celebrities you are or aren't related to.
Thanks for saving me the torture of ever reading the book. And I mean that. A LITERAL deus ex machina lol
Minus the goofy ending its actually quite a good read imho, especially all the preamble stuff with Captain Tripps taking down society as we know it.
I fucking love the Emberverse Books. All three of them. Those other 9 books don't count
Intellectuals don't think elitist-pluralism is tyrannical. They only recognize middle-class populist politics that way, hyperbolically calling milder forms of nationalism/conservatism ”fascism" without much differentiation.
*I wonder how much Colombian magic snow does it take to write a good story like King did?...*
Love the novel. I think Larry is my favorite character, but Harold is great too, one of King’s best non-paranormal villains-Big Jim Renny in Under the Dome is his best, imo. I’ll have to try the 90s adaptation. I tried to watch the 2021 adaptation, but it just pissed me off.
It would be nice to have your take on Clifford Simak's works. I've always found them both wholesome, kind, but sometimes acutely depressing as his endings are sometimes pretty bleak for humanity as we know it
Somehow I've never read any of Simak's work. I'll remedy that this winter.
@@feralhistorian I hope you find him worth a video once you're done. When I was a child, I literally inhaled his books, and reread them now from time to time. There's heavy peacenik vibes, which is understandable given the time period, and quite some disappointment in humanity as is. His robots (to me) are ones of the most memorable in sci-fi (just like Isaac Asimov's, Ian M. Banks', and Neal Asher's are), and his aliens are quite peculiar.
I would like to thank you for your work; while your viewership is strangely low, you should know you are very much appreciated for both the content and the visuals.
Excellent video
I like The Stand, although Robert McCammon's Swan Song is more my speed as apocalyptic epics go. Very similar stories, but Swan Song being post-nuclear means we get giant mutant creatures, and Swan Song features a masked pro wrestler among its heroes and the dog is a heroic pit bull instead of sweet but kind of boring golden retriever. McCammon tends to be a better plotter than King, too.
I rather like this story, as well as many of the earlier works of Steven King. I also kind of like the '94 miniseries as well, and even though I had read the book before I saw it (I was still a child at the time, incidentally), I can't help but imagine the appearance and sound of the actors who played the parts in the miniseries, though for some they weren't there, or for Harold that just doesn't work until after he lost weight.
I was hoping for a dissection of the extremely nuanced motives and character arch of The Rat Man. 😢
Is the hand of God a literal "Deus Ex Machina"? King getting the last laugh/killing joke to the reader?
I guess that kind of depends on how literal you take the 'made in His image' thing.
I've long intended to read this novel. Maybe someday.
My problem with the modern interpretation and the very use of "power structures" bothers me as someone who keeps his focus on pre-industrial history.
The obsession with power structures is bound to the industrial wars and atrocities that we saw during the 19th and 20th centuries.
And it always finds a way to link itself to Hitler.
But the reality is that there is always going to be... power. Positions of power and people in power.
This is inevitable.
Even if we were to somehow achieve fantasy Anarchy, to wipe the whole thing clean and start fresh and all were to be equal in material possessions, some dude would inevitably gather a bunch of other dudes, and there we go again.
Everything that has always been, has been with the tip of a blade or barrel of a gun.
A Constitution guaranteeing individual rights and liberties is a worthless piece of paper if it does not have the guns to be enforced.
A Court to provide good and proper justice can only function if it is backed up by force.
------------------------
If men were angels, no government would be necessary.
If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.
In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this:
you must first enable the government to control the governed;
and in the next place oblige it to control itself.
- James Madison.
-------------------------
And also, the quote "power corrupts" is horrid and nonsensical.
And so I am glad that you use the more appropriate here, which is that positions of power attracts the corrupt.
There have been a great many good men through history who have wielded extraordinary power. And yet they stayed good and they did good with that power.
The question is, who do you put in charge? And how do you choose them?
And for this, both hereditary succession and universal democracy has proven itself entirely worthless. And has only given us monsters of various types and degrees.
Yet, the question of Totalitarianism in all its forms. Whether it is a central strongman, or a populist demagogue, or an overpowering and all-consuming bureaucratic structure using universal suffrage as a tool for their own legitimacy and mass consumerism to dull the masses.
Now those are certainly things that should be despised and confronted wherever it comes to be.
But that is not a question of power.
This is the question of complete and total power.
Of reducing the individual down to nothing but an insect.
-------------------
“In the hive and the ant-hill we see fully realised the two things that some of us most dread for our own species - the dominance of the female and the dominance of the collective.”
- C.S. Lewis.
E4 Mafia strikes again...
The first apocalypse level "flu kills 99% of the world" novel I recall reading was Earth Abide (George R. Steward 1949). King seems to have copied someone else's homework.
Earth Abides was great, I've been meaning to re-read that to cover it at some point.
Kings strength is character description and dialogue. Not plotting.
So the 1994 > 2021? Seems that way. Found that I watch the 2021 and forgot I watched it
I think the '94 one is better. It's certainly got its flaws, but if your only experience of The Stand is that mini-series you'd have a good sense of what it's about, who the characters are, and the major story beats even if some big details were changed.
The remake is oddly less memorable. Most of what I remembered about that one were things that they changed for the worse.
I read both versions of the book and saw the 90s adaptation. Typical King- interesting premise, failed delivery in all 3 formats I engaged.
Perhaps you should, some day deal with writers and/or filmmakers whose visions start off with good ideas and never cohere into quality entertainment, much less art. They can get it up, but never come.
In this group would be King, Ellison, and esp Dick. If you wanna stretch the genre boundary you can toss in Pynchon, as well. I'd add John Carpenter, Tim Burton, and Spielberg on the film side.
Almost every Stephen King book I've ever started, I end up abandoning about halfway. I get his whole thing about letting the characters develop naturally without being forced into plot constraints, but it absolutely makes for fizzling story resolutions.
PK Dick definitely. His stuff always strikes me as story notes that he always meant to come back to. Often fascinating ideas, but then he's off to the next thing.
On the film side, I tend to hold Carpenter at a higher level than Burton or Spielberg, if only because Carpenter usually has one idea he's trying to get across and he goes for it. It's not always satisfying or elegant, but it's there.
@@feralhistorian Of the writers I mention, I've never NOT seen the adaptations in other media fail to be better- esp PK Dick.
Regarding Burton, even the X-Files, in the episode, "The Post-Modern Prometheus" ripped into his just hanging there endings, especially _Edward Scissorhands_
A smart sociologist ? Good times lol
So that means memeing on leftists is totally legitimate
Because you're doing the one thing people in power can't stand: not taking them seriously
I despise the book and tv shows. I have never found Kings books written in a manor of planned genius. I found The Stand is a pointless story and even moreso with pointless charcters. Every single charcter is just there going through the motions.
If you want an excellent apocalyptic horror novel read Swan Song by Robert R MacCammon. Its excellent...surpases King in every aspect.
You have some great content. if you toned down the political crap - especially the right-wing dogwhistles - you'd have way more than 300 views in ten hours. But as it stands, i'm not even five minutes in and its already getting annoying, so I'm going to watch someone who doesn't.
Fair enough. Though in my experience the whole "dog whistle" thing usually means someone is making 6 layers of assumptions. I don't think making a quip about Covid policy being an over-reaction can realistically be considered political or controversial at this point.
@@feralhistorianSounds like someone who still wears a surgical mask while driving alone...
@@feralhistoriandon’t listen to this guy. Tone it up. You call out both sides when it’s required of the source material. please keep it up!