Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.
IDEA He'll fight Mary Jan till she bleeding out every ourice.but then Paul will come out of nowhere with a folding chair,attack the creature who was thrown pathetically. . They raced off into the fields,Mary Jane in a princess carry in Paul's muscular arms,As Spiderman is Naruto running his way through tall grass screaming about how she's his,What a psychopath. They make into the woods,but the sun is falling,and a shadowy monster is creeping his way through trees. it get down on all four, sniffing the ground for mj scents,her sweat,her tears...and laps them up.His head dart into north,Paul and mj begin to run once again,deeper into the woods,with the creature breathing heavily through the masklike lovesick puppy,in a hot pursuit. light, piercing through the trees,as it arrives into a clearing.But it frowns and grits it's crooked yellow dirty teeths,for there was no mj in sight,just Paul illuminated in moonlight 🌙 "WHERES MJ??!!"it growled Panting Paul replied mj not here there's no one here but you and me,his face putting a heroic smile. it was totally on. they begin circling like wolves,Paul eyes glimmering with sheer determination and love staring back at him the monster eye blanket with white eyes,neither dare break their gaze as they maintain an eye pace.keeping their stance and sharpening their concentration. at once they leap at each other tearing into each other with ferocity and hatred that could only be built over thousand lifetimes.Paul the smart and witty fellow he was,pulled 9inch switch blade shanked the damn monstrosity. knelling on the ground in pain,the deformity is crawling away,and Paul follow up for another blow but the wickedly creature cheated like fiend,picked up a twig and threw it wildly,missing paul and the throwing all his weight into the brave paul the blade was still sticking out to monster and he impaled Paul on impact. he begin tightening his grip on Paul neck, muttering to itself like a dumb mutt and violently shaking Paul. it pulled Paul in close and whispered "You are going to die here like a bl3ch"gloating its taunt into Paul's ear but Paul began to laugh Paul starting to fade away was still able to conjure up a smile like a sun and respond. "No I die like a hero but you?you die like a mutt at the pound and its time to put you down" THUDD!went the massive size of a suitcase against Peter skull. Towering above him,with a fury in her eye was "Mary....Jane?"it mustered out from it's cracked lips and yellow broken teeth. Please Mary Jane wai- "THUD!!"THUD!! THUD!! she went caving into his skull as many times as she could muster. And somehow still,the mangled body twitched with life,it's head like a deflated soccer ball,broken and unrecognizable,with a single bulging bloodshot eye ball still fixed on her blurry image desperately trying to trace her form. it let out wheezing noise like a broken air conditioner,before it let out gasp at her sight. Mary Jane Watson green eyes like emerald red hair like rose weaved into strands,he can still see when they first meet images began to flicker over his eyes like an old film. when they first laugh held hand together, danced, exchanged vows and even their first child,Tears steamed from his loose eye socket and he let out horrible broken moan, as began to sob"MJ...MJ please we could have everything"he mumbled and hiccuped and cried. She returned nothing but silence and cold stare. MJ do you what our first daughter look like ?she look like you ,with cute little freckles and shining red hair.i think I think we named her -- THUD!! Nothing but more silence as Mary Jane got down on her knees to see Paul and cradled his perfect muscular shiningv form. she cried"Paul please don't leave me" before he put his hand on her lips and as darkness began to to fade into his eye,he whispered baby girl I protected you And that's all that matters his head fell into her lap unconsciously and she let out scream of sorrow and pain. long live the king,the king is dead long live Paul ..oh and I guess that loser Peter too or something
Hey remember when Zack Snyder wanted Batman to cuck Superman and Lois being pregnant with his bat baby was gonna be the main drama focus of Justice League 2 and 3?
@@xenonthegigachadhedgehog8868im sadists and like to watch people in angony and hate a good set of fanbases I see no problem with enjoying the salt that get produced by fanbases making something a big deal
What’s worse about the Paul situation is the fact that Paul is the ENTIRE REASON MJ IS STUCK IN THE DIMENSION WITH HIM! So she basically had kids with the man who entrapped her! What the hell??
He’s also the reason Peter wasn’t able to get to MJ sooner. Paul sent the god that was portal cut to the other side of the portal (instead of just jumping through it). Said portal cut god caused an explosion, the one Spider-Man was blamed for. Paul is entirely at fault.
She didn’t have kids with the guy. They found some kids and decided to raise them. They were the reason they stayed together, even after Peter saved them. However, they’re gone now, but they’re still together, because of one easy reason: Marvel higher ups don’t want Spidey to be engaged. They don’t want the character to grow up. They want him to be the relatable down on his luck guy who still gets laid with different girls, still fights bad guys and still lives with his aunt. The Marvel higher ups are addicted to having things stay the way they were when THEY read comics. It’s stupid.
@@mr.goblin6039 Keeping things stagnant, very normal occurrence in many IP's, even 40k is doing it, so many plots just going nowhere, characters not growing up all in the name of profit, this shit is insane
Honestly a common theme I’m noticing is these are happening when a new writer or team take over; I wonder how much of it is them saying “fuck the last writer I’m do something completely different” to stand out or maybe even from dislike of the old one
They did this with New 52 Superman. Lois passed on Clark Kent until she learned he was Superman, and only then did she show interest. They tried to write it like she was so endeared by how much he cared for people but ot just comes off as the female fantasy of not wanting an ordinary man and only being interested in the most powerful man in existence.
@@falconeshieldthey also turned her into into a tanned tomboy with a heart of gold, even if she is a bit impulsive, I’m honestly shocked they got away with making her so likable
@@danieljo3314 yeah i know all about that story where barda and Superman were mind controlled. thankfully mister miracle stopped it before they actually fucked. All my homies hate sleez💯
I know they're not heroes, but I also think that Absorbing Man and Titania have a pretty stable relationship in the comics. And although it didn't have a true conclusion, Spiderman and Chat from the Marvel Adventures universe as well. Can easily imagine them having a happy ending since there's really no unnecessary relationship drama.
Don't forget Ben Grimm the Thing and Alicia Masters. They did go through hardships at times, but they managed to make it work. And are now married in the comics with two adopted kids.
One of the reasons why Peter's love life hurts so freaking much since 2008 is because Peter and MJ between 1966 and 2006, despite some rough beats during the 90s (which feel like minor inconveniences when compare to the crap they go through today), were one of, if not THE best couple in super hero comic book history.
They definitely are. Maybe they’re projecting, or they just want men to be weak twinks to push agendas, which is more likley. This isn’t a new trope anyway, just go look at mj from the movies, she definitely was wh*ring out, and then settled on peter after harry died
When Berserk did this to Guts, it was MEANT to be horrific. It was meant to be traumatizing and to make you HATE the villain, which kept you gripped to the page as you literally waited for two decades just to see if Guts would ever encounter Griffith again and slaughter him for what he did to Casca. When these comics do this to their characters, it is almost always just as the expense of the hero we are emphasizing with and there is some weird suggestion that we are just supposed to be "okay" with it... Which ironically makes us hate characters like Paul even kore than Griffith. At least Griffith isn't receiving a song and dance and being defended within his own world and it is ACKNOWLEDGED that he is absolute scum who deserves the worst. Paul is just kinda've treated like a self insert we're expected to love, even usurp Spiderman himself while we, the reader, have to endure watching this man coated in plot armor HUMILIATE someone we emphasize with while people who are SUPPOSED to be his best friends all treat him like crap and act like this is somehow his own fault. Marvel. We don't find your humiliation rituals and thinly disguised fetishes fun. They are grueling. And I think I speak for every reader when I say the only reason we are engaged is out of morbid curiosity to see if you grow a brain at any point and make Paul suffer the absolute worst kind of death.
We’re still waiting with Berserk. The issue here is that this isn’t NRT with Berserk. It was r**e. Poor Casca. I hope the ending has her and Guts healing together with passionate sex just like how Casca did with Guts during the Golden Age.
Nobody hates Paul more than Griffith. What we hate is the storyline that's being created by these amateur-hour writers who don't have the skill to shine Miura's boots. What people consistently complain about involving Paul is meta. It's disliking the story direction as a whole. It's not in-universe. Honestly, just comparing these clowns to Miura and his legacy feels bad lol.
@@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed NTR and grape aren't incompatible, especially considering that event broke her and made her incapable of being with Guts.
Marvel ruined MJ's character she was great before One More Day. She was loyal and understanding to Peter. I'll never read another Marvel comic until One More Day is erased. Also as for Batman I wish he ended up with Silver St. Cloud. She's the only woman to genuinely make Bruce Wayne happy. Bruce was willing to give up the cape and cowl for her. He'll never do that for Selina or Talia.
@@trevturp6891 marvel is brand. It’s wasn’t meant to be a thing to read everything. You pick what you like. Though the modern day of multiple crises level cross over events make the concepts hard. Shonen Jump has a ton of manga but people don’t read all their current catalog either.
@@Kenpachi546I recommend the current ultimate Spider-Man run so far. I’m not heavily into comics, but it seems that one has actual respect for Spidy as a character. He actually has a good family with MJ and great support from them.
@@bloodbrothers6556 I heard good things about it too. I especially heard that the author is pretty well liked by current and former readers as well. I’ll eventually get to it.
Good news Stan didn't approve of one more day and wasn't there when it was allowed to be published he doesn't even consider it canon because Peter is supposed to be married to MJ by his own words
You forgot to mention what they did to the punisher issue 12 2023. His wife came back to life and told him that she was planning to dump him and take the kids before their death. Then she said she sold all his guns and safehouses and took half the money, the other half given to charity. And after saying more nasty stuff she finally dumped him.
@@microcelltechnicalassistence this is a hard one to be honest, i mean, i kinda get it, from her perspective, to know your husband does some really ..... fuck up things but at the same time, you gotta cut him some slack, frank saw his whole family get gunned down and he can't do anything about it, that kinda shit what makes frank what he is, a punisher she know he love her and if she really love him, she would have at least give him a chance because frank not a complete monster, he can heal but he need help, not from anyone but from her
@@jackripper4419 i know that Its not exactly cruel in the same Way of the others things, but he is using the Tool of the canonicaly greatest hero of earth history, the same Tool that saved Millions If not more of lifes, and he dared to tint It with blood, turning something that saves people into a weapon, its absolutely disgusting even If not in a violent way
I locked the idea of Paul being a thing in the back of my head, then this video brought the idea back and I thought Paul is the greatest villain of all time.
@@UnitedFan2 the storyline would be so much better, but the writers are too spinelessto pull that off, it's all about Peter accepting being a c*ck and wrong for being mad at this.
As a writer, this type of stuff hurts my soul. I pride myself on building up relationships that actually pay off by the end, but what I can't stand is this. Buildings decades upon decades of chemistry between two characters only to destroy it for drama. Utterly disgusting.
Its such a waste. Pretty rare to have people be this invested in a character from the get go and have the chance to explore and develop the nuances of a relationship for that long
What's crazy is that it seems like they are trying to connect these with modern comic book readers but forget that they have replacement for that characters. Ex: miles spiderman could be for modern comic book readers
Marvel specifically cucks Spider-Man with MJ because Marvel has hated MJ since her introduction. Stan Lee initially was planning for Gwen to be Spidey's true love interest. Gwen Stacy and Sue Storm were based on Stan Lee's wife. Unfortunately, Gwen was introduced with bad writing; one minute she's poking fun of Peter alongside then bully Flash Thompson, then next she's whining about him not calling her despite telling him she's not talking to him. Her bad writing made it hard for fans to like her. MJ gets introduced and fans LOVED her that they wanted HER as the love interest. Marvel instead TRIED making Gwen more like MJ, going as far as cutting her blond hair to resemble MJ's style, but it didn't work. Fans wanted MJ, and Marvel has hated her for it ever since. That's why MJ in the 90s Spider-Man and the Raimi films was badly written to act more like Gwen and less like comic MJ. Spectacular Spider-Man the cartoon was the closest to comic accurate MJ. Everything else is Marvel trying to trash her. As for the Gwen cucking of Peter, I have NO idea what they were smoking that day. Marvel had desecrated MJ to push Peter toward Gwen, why they decided to have Gwen do something THAT cruel is beyond me as it seems counter-productive.
Guess it was them lashing out at fans cuz in their eyes "They dont know what they want, they're never sastified," probably being that. I can imagine sometimes a creator or whatever making something happen just to be spiteful or whatever even at the detriment of everything. Not saying its a good thing though.
@@prufan indeed, just watched it recently, only downside is that some of the traits of movie MJ got integrated into her due to it being a semi-sequel to Raimi's first Spider-Man film.
I just rewatch the OG Spiderman trilogy the other day and you are right. MJ is written to be narcisstic airhead who constantly cheats on her partners in all 3 movies (Peter, Harry, and the Astronaut) yet always screaming for their help. Like her one and only good trait is that Kirsten Dunst is pretty to look at
@@quakethedoombringer Yeah, it's sad too. At least in 1, she's more redhead as well. In 2 and 3 she had orange hair which is not the hair color of Mary Jane Watson.
One More Day had Spider-Man cucked so bad, I just gave up on the comics and I still have not picked up any new issues since. Making a deal with a demon that sacrificed his marriage to his young, beautiful wife in exchange for a little bit more time with his aging aunt who has already been at death's door more times than I can count was unforgivable. Not only that, everything that happened in nearly the past 20 years on canon just got rewritten as if it was nothing. Spider-Man's identity being made public was a change, but it was a change he would have to adjust to. If Aunt May had died and Peter had killed Fisk, he would have to cope with that going forward. This would have changed the comics in a new direction but still would be progressing the story forward. I guess Marvel just doesn't like to see their heroes naturally progress in life; they would prefer them regressing backwards. Also, I don't know if I speak for the majority of Spider-Man fans today, but I am SICK of Aunt May. I don't hate her, but I really want her to finally die off and just be with Ben again. Peter always having to worry about Aunt May's health and safety really got old over the years and I felt really held him back from being the best hero he could be on multiple occasions. Aunt may has had multiple heart attacks, strokes, radiation poising, you name it and the writers STILL keep her croaking. Seriously, let the old coot rest in peace already! The only way I would even consider picking up new Spider-Man comics again is if they bring Peter and Mary Jane back together and they finally kill off Aunt May properly.
For real. That decision was plain idiocy. He prolongs Aunt May's suffering, and then she dies a few months later. Now what? You sacrificed an 80-something year old woman's life for that of your wife and potential future family?! After she dies, Peter is left all alone with no one by his side .
@joshalan5125 No, but she's an old lady. No offense, but she's still going to die in a few months to a year, though. Peter foolishly sacrificed his marriage to the woman of his dreams forever just to save an octogenarian. After Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy, Peter should know better about how quickly one's life can be taken away from you and accepting what you have instead.
@@Gotten1888 Let's see, the only two that come to mind after Uncle Ben were Nathan Lubinsky and Jarvis briefly. Did I miss any or were they after One More Day?
Another Bruce Timm instance of hero cuckoldry: Hawkman is replaced by Green Lantern (John Stewart) as Hawkgirl's soulmate and was treated as a stalker suffering a delusion for believing that he was supposed to be with Hawkgirl - a character who he is ordinarily linked to romantically across countless incarnations. In the DCAU, this was a delusional belief so powerful that Hawkman's repressed desires are what Shadow Thief, who is one of his main villains. Of course, in this continuity, Hawkgirl was already dating Green Lantern before Hawkman entered the picture at all and Green Lantern's and Hawkgirl's son (Warhawk) would be a member of the Justice League in Batman Beyond's era (via an episode set in the future in the Batman Beyond era). I think it's possibly the most meta instance of superhero cuckoldry I can think of as it's not technically cuckoldry in-continuity (Hawkman is actually confused about his relationship with Hawkgirl), but when you think about it in the context of the adaptation, it's profoundly disrespectful to anyone with any degree of investment in the Hawkman-Hawkgirl relationship, which is at the core of most Hawkman/Hawkgirl comics.
i hate Green Lantern and HawkGirl ship ,some said the just human i said bad person and they cheat bro ,Hawkman support to be with Hawkgirl true love immortal story and they try so hard to make her a H*e
I unfortunately have to admit I'm a big fan of GL and Hawkwoman. It feels like a natural relationship in the way they originally wrote it. I dig it. I don't consider it cuckolding because of how they wrote Hawkman. Now is Hawkman and Hawkwoman appeared like they originally did. Then I'd hate it.
@@millerjames908yeah, and in the ultimate universe, Namor forced her to let him do her infront of mr fantastic to stop him from destroing the world.
Im surprised you didn't mention that time where Spidey Black Cat and Daredevil worked together. Cat was flirting with Spidey as always but at the end of the day she went to DD to surprise and sleep with him. Spidey unnoticed followed Cat and saw from afar that and just noted: "ah, so that's my supervillain origin"
@@T-verseTrevor yeah... people say that MJ is for the streets because she was trapped for year in other dimension with litteraly the only man on earth and started a relashionship with him (Which makes psychological-wise sense). But Blackcat did him sometimes way dirtier and that more than once.
@@comiclads True. Personaly I like MJ she keeped Peter grounded and reminded him that theres also a normal man behind his mask. But thanks god Zeb Wells finaly got fired maybe we get now some good writing for Spidey lovelife or his life in general.
My favourite relationship has to be Wally West and Linda Park. It was really unique in the late 90s-00s to see a major superhero get married and have children. Granted, the stalking was getting very weird near the end of it. But now in mainline comics, his stable home life has been reinstated.
The people writing these heroes are miserable in their personal lives and they are projecting into these stories.. I don’t even read comics anymore because of these clowns destroying my favorite characters
Yeah, I wonder if these writers got into a rocky relationship where their significant other openly cheat on them with other people and then use comics to vent their frustration
Such a bizzare thing thats happening of late. Like Imagine if in the latest chapter of Dragon Ball Super Bulma started cheating on Vegeta with mr Satan?
@@trevturp6891someone who let his girlfriend sleep with other men while watching. He says that this is an experiance every man in a relationship should go through
Spider-Man fans (me included) are smoking eight cigarettes at once just to deal with the stress the writers put us through on a daily basis. Also an obligatory Paul can go to hell. Peter and Felicia was always how I thought it should go anyway.
They didn't do it, they just made out. Which is still kinda skeezy when MJ was 15 and while Peters body was 15, Wolverine was a grown ass man pretending to be Peter Parker
@@Kira22558 besides the multiple humiliating situations of Peter, he’s also involved in Deadpool 3. It’s also very possible that he’s writing these situations due to his marriage with SNL Heidi Gardner, from what I heard
I was going to mention her but yeah, Chat is a keeper bro, if she ever gets introduced in a main-line story and he gets cucked i'm reaching OJ Simpson levels of crashout
@@MissionControlDRG exactly, I like spiderman even more than before because thru all this evil shit he still stand strong and stays a hero. Dudes willpower and discipline is insane , true masculine hero right there
It really sucks because both of Peter's relationships with MJ & Gwen Stacy at their best, are where they're figuring out their problems and progressing as a couple, taking their time with it (Like with MJ in the original Ultimate Spider-Man for a bit after finding out extremely early on.) plus the cute stuff between them here and there. It says a lot when the one Spider-Man run people are loving to death, is the one where not only are Peter & MJ married, have two kids together, but also accepts who he is as Spider-Man, and even gives him the name at the end of the FIRST arc.
@@comicladsits kinda funny because they also had a Paul moment. Mark was gone for 5 years and eve hooked up with this random alien guy. It was better executed but mark definitely was bitter over it 😭😭
@@ascendedsavage7040 didn't Eve immediately dump him as soon as Mark came back because he was a dick to her and Terra? Also I don't remember Mark being very bitter about it, at least not towards Eve.
@@xenorex481 pretty sure she dumped him before mark came back, yeah mark was very bitter (because who wouldn’t be) but not at eve which is why I said it was executed way better than the Paul Mj stuff
I never liked how Eve would slap/assault people, specially Mark, whenever she got up in her feelings. Also, the random alien she hooked up with came from a culture that was *explicitly* centered on sexual pleasure, selfish hedonism and not having responsibilities, and she has the gall to act offended by it only when Mark comes back.
Black Canary and Green Arrow are my favorite comic couple. In many interactions they’re always paired together and I don’t really see much toxicity between them. So I don’t know why the Arrowverse had Oliver end up with Felicity when there were TWO black canaries in the show.
You can write like a teenager and not cuck your heroes. Cucking is usually not a hallmark of juvenile fiction. This is the product of a sick mind that loves to spite long-standing and beloved heroes.
Black Cat/Spider-Man, Starfire/Nightwing, Batgirl/Nightwing & Catwoman/Batman are my favorite comics couple, but in cartoons it was Wonder Woman and Batman(especially in JL/JLU), Tony and pepper in Armored Adventures and Gwen and Peter in Spectacular
@@zionleach3001that's the point I'm seeing: everyone i came to love and know has become now a punching bag with no hope of ever gaining anything. Ans this is what is making me lose hope in humanity: the way they ruin everything they make. Stan lee would be rotting in his grave if he sees this, not just him, but kevin Conroy as well. Just accept It: superheros are dead and so is the comic industry....and so it's humanity
@@lautarogomez9711 Guess I'm more optimistic, caus most people only talk about Marvel and DC. I don't hear much about Boom, Image, IDW, and Dark Horse.
Another example I like to bring up is Cyclops from the early 2000’s X Men movies. From the beginning of the first movie it’s established that Scott and Jean are in a relationship but Logan has feeling for Jean and the story plays out in a way were it’s a good thing that Jean is cheating on Scott for Logan and Scott for some reason is presented as the “bad guy” of the love triangle and how he’s getting in the way of Jean’s and Logan’s relationship. It good so bad that in the 3 rd they kill of Scott right at the start of the movie and he’s basically forgotten about for the rest of it.
It’s that infamous photo. Morrigan may be a succubus but her desire for Peter is actually genuine and if you look at any other image that’s canon, she does not have that same expression.
Alright one last comment about this. Remember Toriyama? Remember what he did with Chichi and Goku? Yeah, I don't remember either because Toriyama knew that its better they keep together. No more love interest on Goku since he is no casanova and he has zero reason to seek any other lady. He already has Chichi and thats all there is to it.
With all of the memes I've seen of the MvC collection, I'd like to see one where Morrigan has been acting like a therapist for Spider-Man due to Paul's existence.
All of these characters should've been retired decades ago. Over an infinite runtime, every comic character will go through every possible character development including being cucked.
Facts the Spider-Man writers have been chasing the Conway/Romita years since their childhoods reading those runs. Problem is all that was new and original, now they're just doing their own version through a cheap lens
So, it's like this. Western people, especially American, has always have this idea that idealistic or optimistic do-gooders with happy endings are "boring" in fiction. You can see this from people's tendency to root for or make excuse for anti-heroes and villains instead since they're seen as the underdogs. This idea that "good guys are boring" is deep-seated everywhere in the genre and it easily influences writers. The writers, desperately want to do everything to make marketable stories, start throwing superheroes in every single trauma in the book in order to ramp up tensions in the challenges and problems the heroes have to overcome. Many even come to genuinely believe that heroic characters *cannot* be interesting without having deep-seated traumas and failed romances. The problem is that these tensions stack; they have to keep escalating, and you end up at the point where superheroes *can't* solve their problems without lasting consequences. Eventually, just like 616 Peter Parker, you come to the point where *all* these superheroes can do is screwing up, ruining their love lives, and be considered failures because they steadfastly refuse to kill. Both the writers and the audiences simply don't care, because they're too busy bootlicking excessively depressing stories with bittersweet or downright bad endings. Despite being a pioneer of the superhero genre, I dare say that America, since 9/11 and postmodern deconstructionism, is one of the most cynical and pessimistic of all countries that try to adapt and sell these sorts of heroic stories.
There are three kinds of comic book writers: a.) The writer that creates unforgettable, beautiful works that you'll remember for your whole life. b.) The writer who decides that what readers really want is to see their favourite character get disfigured and eaten alive, and then have their body desecrated in the worst, most ungodly ways imaginable. c.) The writer who just doesn't understand what readers want, and doesn't pretend to know nor care.
d). The writer that understands their characters and its fans, and decides to fix all the tom-fuckery done in previous runs by allowing the character and their allies have great character arcs.
kinda off topic but i dont want mj to end up with peter in EVERY single adaptation bc there's no variety so it easily gets boring and repetative. which is why i dont want mcu peter to back with mj she already had her chance and she already ended up with peter in the raimi movies, 90s spiderman, marvels spiderman 2017 etc. it'd be a nice change of pace if he ended up Black Cat or heck even Kitty Pryde which would make sense since the mcu is introducing the X-Men so it would be the perfect time to do it maybe after X-Men 1 and 2 and then we get a Spider-Man and Kitty Pryde Romcom Movie that would go so HARD
That's like saying you don't want Superman to end up with Lois Lane. Mary Jane Watson is Spider-Man's most iconic love interest. She's more iconic than Gwen Stacy. Spider-Man and Mary Jane are one of the best couples in comic book history before Marvel ruined them.
@@callmejacob3234 im saying that i dont want every adaptation to have peter end up with mj its different with Superman cuz Lois apart from lana is his only love interest and was there from the start unlike peter who has had multiple love interest nah man Chat is better than Mj. also so lets say that the next 10 spiderman adaptation have peter ending up with mj again your telling me that for you it wont get boring and repetative? cuz you seemed to ignore that part
Imagine this. Happy superhero man who has a healthy and lasting relationship with his wife and they even have a family and maybe even some family friends that are superheroes. Im talking about the incredibles.
I’m convinced that Marvel wants to eventually phase out Peter Parker all together. They seem to be trying to show us that he’s replaceable in every aspect. Miles Morales has the better power set. Spider-Gwen is a better host of the Venom symbiote. He’s even replaceable as a love interest as most of his girlfriends over the years are in relationships with other men. They’re trying to make him so irrelevant that we wouldn’t bat an eye if Peter just disappeared for good.
they will try, but still make more movies about Peter Parker. Because he out of all Spiders makes them the most money (Untill their contract with Sony will be gone at least)
They realized they can't fully get rid of him but trying to make him a teenager is as much media as possible to keep the relationship drama fresh. He's either a 28 year old loser, or a 16 year old rookie, with little room in-between
They kind of have to. Spider-man's going to turn public domain eventually. What I'm more interested in at this point is how DC is going to handle Super-man.
The best comic book relationship to me is between Mark and Eve from Invincible. Like it had its ups and downs, but they ended it perfectly, basically answering the "what will you have after 500 years" question, showing adult Mark, Eve, their daughter Terra and whole new viltrum empire
Fun Video Lads! Thanks For Naming One of the 12 Elephants That Keeps Popping Up In Writer's rooms. It's a Problem That Really Needs To Be Discussed Because (Speaking For the Super Hero Community) We Can't Take it Anymore.
Great video😂 Glad i discovered this channel today by chance. And this is another reason why i am glad i dropped comics abd started buying manga. Actual closure and finality in the latter compared to the former. Oh, and many relationships in manga actually have good payoffs and editorial mandayes keep many mangakas from inserting their worst personal relationship issues in the stories
Peter Parker and Sophia "Chat" Sanduval have one of the most beautiful relationships I've ever read and it's targeted at a younger audience of Spider-Man fans. If you guys haven't heard of it I do recommend giving it a read. She is canonically, the only girlfriend he has had that: healed him in battle, forgiven his times of need being Spider-Man, aided in smaller ways for catching bad guys but most of all. She is the only one I have ever seen dynamics wise, mirror and complete Peter Parker. She knew him first as Spider-Man but fell in love with Peter the further she got to know him. Seriously underrated and I'm glad that tomboy didn't get adapted elsewhere to not be ruined.
Technically speaking in the comics Superman nd Lois lane are married and they have there son Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his 10 year old self and it was freaking fantastic and amazing seeing them as a family in my opinion.
@@kidinky1271 oh believe me I am still pissed off about that and I will never ever understand why did Bendis aged up my boy Jonathan Samuel Kent just for his terrible legion book that nobody liked myself included, and also drives me crazy that DC won't just retcon this garbage and deage Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy back to his little 10 year old self but that's just my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka yeah. Not to mention, he basically got tortured for (supposedly) 7 years and now he comes back home just for him to become Superman(in very rushed manner in my opinion) without really addressing on how fuck up he must be. Also, why the hell would his parents let him go with his grandfather who they never even met before?? Like, huh?? I could go on but Jesus Christ 😫
@@TevyaSmolka dc probably won’t retcon it because it would be quite pedophilic between Jay (Jon’s boyfriend) and Jon. I mean, in my eyes, it might as well be. In conclusion, Jon growing up too fast and becoming Superman AND getting him into a relationship almost immediately is a garbage way to do my fav character(the character that got me into DC in the first place)
You not to far off when you mentioned writers experiencing this shit. Few months ago found out current Spider-man writer Zeb Wells was getting a divorce , that might explain why he randomly broke up Peter & Mj right after they just got back together. #CuckeningIsReal
I feel like there should be a rule where you are only allowed to write couple when you are 1) not in a honeymoon or 2) not in a divorce, separation, or something like that. Otherwise you just have bitter people venting their frustration onto the readers
A quote that comes to mind is "Authors write what they know" - so Superheroes can't have stable relationships and get cu*ked? ... Sounds like some writers want to make their characters suffer cause the world made them suffer.
I once read a comment on another video talking about Spider-Man's current treatment from Zeb Wells as being comparable to an NTR plot...But followed up by saying that NTR doesn't get as cruel as Marvel does toward Peter. I hope Spider-Man enters public domain sooner rather than later. Anything to allow him to have good stories would be welcomed.
This is why Manga is kicking the c*** out of American comics. Don't me wrong, I love comics, but you could just let Spider-Man get a happy ending and then focus on a different one, whether it's Miles or whether it's noir, but God damn, let's when these guys get a win.
You know that Japan has their own cuckold genre right ? called NTR (netorare, netorase and netori) They are worse than western comics, when comics don't have a cuckold genre
How is that the reason? Half the guys in manga these days are dudes who get women thrown at them only to blush and freak out. I actually read manga bruh lmao.
@@jsmoothd654 he meant the mainstream manga shonen comics, atleast most of them don't have this c*cking bs, and they are still somewhat well written relationships
I think it’s somewhat because comics like One More Day blew up and sold incredibly well which is essentially just Peter Parker torture. One of the main writers Joe Quesada just *really* wanted Peter to go back to being a lonely nerd so he had to make a comic that convolutedly did that. A lot of characters, Peter included, act out of character for this to happen. Mary Jane and peter even sell their marriage and love to Mephisto in turn forgetting about one another in exchange for giving Peter another chance after happiness in his new life. From what I heard it’s simply because Joe didnt like that Peter wasnt this downtrodden nerd that’s constantly in agony. Huggbees made an amazing video about it
This is why I actually hate comics. I only like the characters. Comics themselves are a complete mess, and the industry is dying because the ones behind them can't get their shit together
So i can give background as to why they keep yanking Peter's chain. Peter is seen by Marvel as their 'youth character'. And to quote former head editor "kids couldn't relate to a 30 year old Spiderman who was married and had kids." In Marvel's eyes Spiderman has to remain a young adult for kids to like him. Forever dealing with school, rent, and relationship problems.
I really thought you guys were going to talk about the time Daredevil "cucked" Spider-Man by almost smashing Black Cat and creating the infamous "I think this is my supervillain origin." meme.
The point is to make the heroes suffer, back then writers will just kill their loved ones, but nowadays death isn't painful or "edgy" enough for readers, as people die all the time in these comics, so NTR I mean, if the writers could, there's will be more superheroes getting r*ped than cucked, but that will be too much, so NTR is the second worst thing that can happen to a hero
I think some of my favorite comic book relationships are Wally West and Linda Park Barry allen and Iris West Tim drake and stephanie brown Dick grayson and Barbara gordon Green arrow and black canary. Also, Bruce timm and zeb wells need to get their shit together💀
Well Tim and Stephanie almost broke up for good during the current Young Justice comics cause the writer for it was considering 2 things those being Tim deliberately cheating on Spoiler with Cassie Sandsmark aka Wonder Girl who was Spoiler's best friend and closest confidant on the team, and when that idea thankfully didn't come to pass the other idea was having Tim break up with Stephanie due to him coming out as Bisexual now the idea of Tim coming out as bisexual could work if done right including having him stay with Stephanie and she helps him understand it and accept that side of himself but no they were just going to use a sensitive topic like that to try and force Tim to brake up with Stephanie again thankfully that idea never came to pass.
Good point but my biggest gripe is mostly on the xmen side.where they have children but never grow up with them mystique threw away nightcrawler.ignored crayden creed and barely "grew up" rogue. Cyclops sent his son to the future.magneto abandoned the twins.why don t superheroes look after their kids?
I think it was proven that whenever Pete is happy, sales go down. But recently, sales are down anyways so I don’t even know what to do to the spidey franchise to make it un-fucked.
most writers doesn't understand what stan lee meant when he create spider man, when he said "i want to make him a teenager, gave him superpower, had a name for it and just for fun, i'm gonna give him personal problem", stan did it to make peter more relatable to readers, even when peter has all this powers, he still have to deal with regular stuff like normal humans do, to keep him grounded and the marvel writers said "we got you" and crank that shit up to a hundred
The best relationships in comics are the ones between characters that aren’t popular enough to have ongoing series.
Spiderman and Chat from the Marvel adventures universe. Thank goodness they're leaving her alone.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpyes, thank you
Jesus Christ died for your sins on the cross. Repent and believe in him or you will be separated from God The Father for all eternity and face hell forever, for all eternity, never ending.
@@treek10kAre you telling this to Paul?
IDEA
He'll fight Mary Jan till she bleeding out every ourice.but then Paul will come out of nowhere with a folding chair,attack the creature who was thrown pathetically.
.
They raced off into the fields,Mary Jane in a princess carry in Paul's muscular arms,As Spiderman is Naruto running his way through tall grass screaming about how she's his,What a psychopath.
They make into the woods,but the sun is falling,and a shadowy monster is creeping his way through trees.
it get down on all four, sniffing the ground for mj scents,her sweat,her tears...and laps them up.His head dart into north,Paul and mj begin to run once again,deeper into the woods,with the creature breathing heavily through the masklike lovesick puppy,in a hot pursuit.
light, piercing through the trees,as it arrives into a clearing.But it frowns and grits it's crooked yellow dirty teeths,for there was no mj in sight,just Paul illuminated in moonlight 🌙
"WHERES MJ??!!"it growled
Panting Paul replied mj not here there's no one here but you and me,his face putting a heroic smile.
it was totally on.
they begin circling like wolves,Paul eyes glimmering with sheer determination and love staring back at him the monster eye blanket with white eyes,neither dare break their gaze as they maintain an eye pace.keeping their stance and sharpening their concentration.
at once they leap at each other tearing into each other with ferocity and hatred that could only be built over thousand lifetimes.Paul the smart and witty fellow he was,pulled 9inch switch blade shanked the damn monstrosity.
knelling on the ground in pain,the deformity is crawling away,and Paul follow up for another blow but the wickedly creature cheated like fiend,picked up a twig and threw it wildly,missing paul and the throwing all his weight into the brave paul
the blade was still sticking out to monster and he impaled Paul on impact.
he begin tightening his grip on Paul neck, muttering to itself like a dumb mutt and violently shaking Paul.
it pulled Paul in close and whispered "You are going to die here like a bl3ch"gloating its taunt into Paul's ear but Paul began to laugh
Paul starting to fade away was still able to conjure up a smile like a sun and respond.
"No I die like a hero but you?you die like a mutt at the pound and its time to put you down"
THUDD!went the massive size of a suitcase against Peter skull.
Towering above him,with a fury in her eye was
"Mary....Jane?"it mustered out from it's cracked lips and yellow broken teeth.
Please Mary Jane wai-
"THUD!!"THUD!! THUD!! she went caving into his skull as many times as she could muster.
And somehow still,the mangled body twitched with life,it's head like a deflated soccer ball,broken and unrecognizable,with a single bulging bloodshot eye ball still fixed on her blurry image desperately trying to trace her form.
it let out wheezing noise like a broken air conditioner,before it let out gasp at her sight.
Mary Jane Watson green eyes like emerald red hair like rose weaved into strands,he can still see when they first meet images began to flicker over his eyes like an old film.
when they first laugh held hand together, danced, exchanged vows and even their first child,Tears steamed from his loose eye socket and he let out horrible broken moan, as began to sob"MJ...MJ please we could have everything"he mumbled and hiccuped and cried.
She returned nothing but silence and cold stare.
MJ do you what our first daughter look like ?she look like you ,with cute little freckles and shining red hair.i think I think we named her --
THUD!!
Nothing but more silence as Mary Jane got down on her knees to see Paul and cradled his perfect muscular shiningv
form.
she cried"Paul please don't leave me" before he put his hand on her lips and as darkness began to to fade into his eye,he whispered baby girl I protected you And that's all that matters his head fell into her lap unconsciously and she let out scream of sorrow and pain.
long live the king,the king is dead
long live Paul
..oh and I guess that loser Peter too or something
Superman is lucky he got married to Lois Lane way back then, because he wouldn't be allowed to be a married man in modern comics otherwise
Thank god honestly, they’re great together
@@comicladsI disagree. DC only did it because they were locked in years ago. Both have had other loves over the years.
@@Outlier999Yeah, I know that the silver age of DC comics was very wild and had some very "interesting" stories concerning Superman and Lois.
Hey remember when Zack Snyder wanted Batman to cuck Superman and Lois being pregnant with his bat baby was gonna be the main drama focus of Justice League 2 and 3?
Pffff, Spidey was married too, but then OMD happened...
Modern writers projecting, disliking the character or their fanbase, or inserting their own sexual deviancy.
Or they’re legit just sadists that relish in making their characters miserable 💀
@@comiclads that too
@@OmniDan26 usually all of the above
@@xenonthegigachadhedgehog8868im sadists and like to watch people in angony and hate a good set of fanbases
I see no problem with enjoying the salt that get produced by fanbases making something a big deal
@@ryice944 ok …. But keep that to yourself bro.
What’s worse about the Paul situation is the fact that Paul is the ENTIRE REASON MJ IS STUCK IN THE DIMENSION WITH HIM! So she basically had kids with the man who entrapped her! What the hell??
He’s also the reason Peter wasn’t able to get to MJ sooner. Paul sent the god that was portal cut to the other side of the portal (instead of just jumping through it). Said portal cut god caused an explosion, the one Spider-Man was blamed for. Paul is entirely at fault.
Stockholm Syndrome apparently?
She didn’t have kids with the guy. They found some kids and decided to raise them. They were the reason they stayed together, even after Peter saved them. However, they’re gone now, but they’re still together, because of one easy reason: Marvel higher ups don’t want Spidey to be engaged. They don’t want the character to grow up. They want him to be the relatable down on his luck guy who still gets laid with different girls, still fights bad guys and still lives with his aunt. The Marvel higher ups are addicted to having things stay the way they were when THEY read comics. It’s stupid.
@@mr.goblin6039 the problem is that HOW IS is realistic for him to be down on his luck for MORE THAN 20 YEARS
@@mr.goblin6039 Keeping things stagnant, very normal occurrence in many IP's, even 40k is doing it, so many plots just going nowhere, characters not growing up all in the name of profit, this shit is insane
The *Real* *Villains* was the writers we roasted along the way.
This is best subversion of this annoying meme yet
Amen.
Honestly a common theme I’m noticing is these are happening when a new writer or team take over; I wonder how much of it is them saying “fuck the last writer I’m do something completely different” to stand out or maybe even from dislike of the old one
This is a Paul Hate Space. Paul fans, keep it moving.
LMAO
Bro, do you seriously believe that offspring of a tumorous turd and a blob fish has fans
Do they exist?
There's Paul fans?
Who likes Paul?
women in comics b dating literal gods and are like "I can do better"
Those literal gods are ran thrus but people don't give a shit,it's only a problem when women have sex
Pretty realistic
@@20thcentury_toy💯
"But what about MY needs?"
I mean, checks out even irl. Its just biological nature at this point.
Five bucks that Paul is actually Zeb Wells’ self insert.
It is
@@xenonthegigachadhedgehog8868They all are. Look at Miles Luna and Jaune D'Arc.
@@falconeshield Exactly! It’s pissing me off!
He looks vaguely familiar
Actually He is based off of the guy his wife left zeb for as he took has 2 kids.
They did this with New 52 Superman. Lois passed on Clark Kent until she learned he was Superman, and only then did she show interest. They tried to write it like she was so endeared by how much he cared for people but ot just comes off as the female fantasy of not wanting an ordinary man and only being interested in the most powerful man in existence.
New Adventures is the opposite. Lois doesn't feel worthy of Clark. She feels she's too normal.
@@falconeshieldthey also turned her into into a tanned tomboy with a heart of gold, even if she is a bit impulsive, I’m honestly shocked they got away with making her so likable
@@Christopher-eq1rnTomboy Lois is the best Lois 😌.
Female nature bruh!
@@ramonantoniodejuanbennett6239💯 most men's wills are too weak to accept it 🤷
This is why Big Barda and mister miracle are the best comic book couple
They’re actually an S tier couple
Yeah but even they had a weird thing where Superman and barda got mind controlled by sleez and made a prno in that weird issue by John Byrne.
@@danieljo3314 yeah i know all about that story where barda and Superman were mind controlled. thankfully mister miracle stopped it before they actually fucked. All my homies hate sleez💯
I know they're not heroes, but I also think that Absorbing Man and Titania have a pretty stable relationship in the comics. And although it didn't have a true conclusion, Spiderman and Chat from the Marvel Adventures universe as well. Can easily imagine them having a happy ending since there's really no unnecessary relationship drama.
Don't forget Ben Grimm the Thing and Alicia Masters. They did go through hardships at times, but they managed to make it work. And are now married in the comics with two adopted kids.
One of the reasons why Peter's love life hurts so freaking much since 2008 is because Peter and MJ between 1966 and 2006, despite some rough beats during the 90s (which feel like minor inconveniences when compare to the crap they go through today), were one of, if not THE best couple in super hero comic book history.
There was a black haired gf of Spiderman who was better than all the mainstream ones.
Wrong @@falconeshield
@@falconeshield who?
@@fernandoreimpell2818 Chat from Marvel Adventures.
@@miguelorozco4445I think they’re referring to Chat from the Marvel Adventures Universe.
I noticed this weird trend too and have wondered if comic book writers are just all weird as hell
write what you know i guess
A lot of the current writers and artists were recruited from Tumblr back in the day. The only OGs that are still around are masochists.
Comic writers have always either been losers, hippies and cultists. This shit's been documented.
They definitely are. Maybe they’re projecting, or they just want men to be weak twinks to push agendas, which is more likley. This isn’t a new trope anyway, just go look at mj from the movies, she definitely was wh*ring out, and then settled on peter after harry died
Wonder Woman creator was openly into BDSM stuff. The boys's writer is the OG edgelord. Comic writers definitely have taste that are considered "odd"
When Berserk did this to Guts, it was MEANT to be horrific. It was meant to be traumatizing and to make you HATE the villain, which kept you gripped to the page as you literally waited for two decades just to see if Guts would ever encounter Griffith again and slaughter him for what he did to Casca.
When these comics do this to their characters, it is almost always just as the expense of the hero we are emphasizing with and there is some weird suggestion that we are just supposed to be "okay" with it... Which ironically makes us hate characters like Paul even kore than Griffith. At least Griffith isn't receiving a song and dance and being defended within his own world and it is ACKNOWLEDGED that he is absolute scum who deserves the worst. Paul is just kinda've treated like a self insert we're expected to love, even usurp Spiderman himself while we, the reader, have to endure watching this man coated in plot armor HUMILIATE someone we emphasize with while people who are SUPPOSED to be his best friends all treat him like crap and act like this is somehow his own fault.
Marvel.
We don't find your humiliation rituals and thinly disguised fetishes fun. They are grueling. And I think I speak for every reader when I say the only reason we are engaged is out of morbid curiosity to see if you grow a brain at any point and make Paul suffer the absolute worst kind of death.
We’re still waiting with Berserk. The issue here is that this isn’t NRT with Berserk. It was r**e. Poor Casca. I hope the ending has her and Guts healing together with passionate sex just like how Casca did with Guts during the Golden Age.
Those spiderman writers are prob into that thing, cause ain't no way😅
Nobody hates Paul more than Griffith. What we hate is the storyline that's being created by these amateur-hour writers who don't have the skill to shine Miura's boots.
What people consistently complain about involving Paul is meta. It's disliking the story direction as a whole. It's not in-universe.
Honestly, just comparing these clowns to Miura and his legacy feels bad lol.
@@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed NTR and grape aren't incompatible, especially considering that event broke her and made her incapable of being with Guts.
@@denkerbosu3551 That’s still not NTR since Guts DID NOT enjoy any of it at all. Neither did Casca of course
Marvel ruined MJ's character she was great before One More Day. She was loyal and understanding to Peter. I'll never read another Marvel comic until One More Day is erased. Also as for Batman I wish he ended up with Silver St. Cloud. She's the only woman to genuinely make Bruce Wayne happy. Bruce was willing to give up the cape and cowl for her. He'll never do that for Selina or Talia.
How come you won't read Marvel comics that aren't Spiderman comics? And will you read the Ultimate comics?
@@trevturp6891 marvel is brand. It’s wasn’t meant to be a thing to read everything. You pick what you like. Though the modern day of multiple crises level cross over events make the concepts hard. Shonen Jump has a ton of manga but people don’t read all their current catalog either.
@@Kenpachi546I recommend the current ultimate Spider-Man run so far. I’m not heavily into comics, but it seems that one has actual respect for Spidy as a character. He actually has a good family with MJ and great support from them.
@@bloodbrothers6556 I heard good things about it too. I especially heard that the author is pretty well liked by current and former readers as well. I’ll eventually get to it.
Good news Stan didn't approve of one more day and wasn't there when it was allowed to be published he doesn't even consider it canon because Peter is supposed to be married to MJ by his own words
I’m convinced these writers are children of sneako and adam 16
😂😂😂😂😂😂 dead
Dear God!
Yep; they are either some hack writer trying to force an conflict or they have strange fetishes like Sneako.
Area we talking about Sneako who was a streamer?
Not Adam16 😂😂
You forgot to mention what they did to the punisher issue 12 2023.
His wife came back to life and told him that she was planning to dump him and take the kids before their death.
Then she said she sold all his guns and safehouses and took half the money, the other half given to charity. And after saying more nasty stuff she finally dumped him.
Understandable and acceptable
@@microcelltechnicalassistence this is a hard one to be honest, i mean, i kinda get it, from her perspective, to know your husband does some really ..... fuck up things
but at the same time, you gotta cut him some slack, frank saw his whole family get gunned down and he can't do anything about it, that kinda shit what makes frank what he is, a punisher
she know he love her and if she really love him, she would have at least give him a chance because frank not a complete monster, he can heal but he need help, not from anyone but from her
@@jackripper4419 there was a time, where Frank used spider-man web shorters to kill people, i don't know If its the Main continuity but think about it
@@microcelltechnicalassistence that's kinda tame to what he did on daily basis to be honest, hell, at one point, he even use war machine suit
@@jackripper4419 i know that Its not exactly cruel in the same Way of the others things, but he is using the Tool of the canonicaly greatest hero of earth history, the same Tool that saved Millions If not more of lifes, and he dared to tint It with blood, turning something that saves people into a weapon, its absolutely disgusting even If not in a violent way
I locked the idea of Paul being a thing in the back of my head, then this video brought the idea back and I thought Paul is the greatest villain of all time.
He’s the fans’ arch enemy😭😂
Paul was the pawn and the scapegoat. The writers are the real villains
I think Paul is Mephisto messing with Peter again.
@@UnitedFan2honestly I can see that being true
@@UnitedFan2 the storyline would be so much better, but the writers are too spinelessto pull that off, it's all about Peter accepting being a c*ck and wrong for being mad at this.
As a writer, this type of stuff hurts my soul. I pride myself on building up relationships that actually pay off by the end, but what I can't stand is this. Buildings decades upon decades of chemistry between two characters only to destroy it for drama. Utterly disgusting.
Its such a waste. Pretty rare to have people be this invested in a character from the get go and have the chance to explore and develop the nuances of a relationship for that long
Amen to that, my friend. As a writer, this makes me die a little more inside.
@@Doople
Agreed
What's crazy is that it seems like they are trying to connect these with modern comic book readers but forget that they have replacement for that characters.
Ex: miles spiderman could be for modern comic book readers
@@degenratex4834
Indeed
Spider-Man's biggest Nemesis is his own writers at least Stan Lee went easy on him while alive but now that he's gone peter is helpless
I know he's a fictional character, but Paul's smug face bugs the shit out of me.
He look like a predator and someone who sexually harassed his student, very punchable face also
agreed
Marvel specifically cucks Spider-Man with MJ because Marvel has hated MJ since her introduction. Stan Lee initially was planning for Gwen to be Spidey's true love interest. Gwen Stacy and Sue Storm were based on Stan Lee's wife. Unfortunately, Gwen was introduced with bad writing; one minute she's poking fun of Peter alongside then bully Flash Thompson, then next she's whining about him not calling her despite telling him she's not talking to him. Her bad writing made it hard for fans to like her. MJ gets introduced and fans LOVED her that they wanted HER as the love interest. Marvel instead TRIED making Gwen more like MJ, going as far as cutting her blond hair to resemble MJ's style, but it didn't work. Fans wanted MJ, and Marvel has hated her for it ever since. That's why MJ in the 90s Spider-Man and the Raimi films was badly written to act more like Gwen and less like comic MJ. Spectacular Spider-Man the cartoon was the closest to comic accurate MJ. Everything else is Marvel trying to trash her. As for the Gwen cucking of Peter, I have NO idea what they were smoking that day. Marvel had desecrated MJ to push Peter toward Gwen, why they decided to have Gwen do something THAT cruel is beyond me as it seems counter-productive.
Guess it was them lashing out at fans cuz in their eyes "They dont know what they want, they're never sastified," probably being that.
I can imagine sometimes a creator or whatever making something happen just to be spiteful or whatever even at the detriment of everything.
Not saying its a good thing though.
Spiderman TNAS was also an accurate adaptation of MJ.
@@prufan indeed, just watched it recently, only downside is that some of the traits of movie MJ got integrated into her due to it being a semi-sequel to Raimi's first Spider-Man film.
I just rewatch the OG Spiderman trilogy the other day and you are right. MJ is written to be narcisstic airhead who constantly cheats on her partners in all 3 movies (Peter, Harry, and the Astronaut) yet always screaming for their help. Like her one and only good trait is that Kirsten Dunst is pretty to look at
@@quakethedoombringer Yeah, it's sad too. At least in 1, she's more redhead as well. In 2 and 3 she had orange hair which is not the hair color of Mary Jane Watson.
Paul was just trying to save Peter from the dumpster fire that is modern MJ, he’s a hero.
The hero we deserved, but didn’t need or want😭
One More Day had Spider-Man cucked so bad, I just gave up on the comics and I still have not picked up any new issues since. Making a deal with a demon that sacrificed his marriage to his young, beautiful wife in exchange for a little bit more time with his aging aunt who has already been at death's door more times than I can count was unforgivable. Not only that, everything that happened in nearly the past 20 years on canon just got rewritten as if it was nothing. Spider-Man's identity being made public was a change, but it was a change he would have to adjust to. If Aunt May had died and Peter had killed Fisk, he would have to cope with that going forward. This would have changed the comics in a new direction but still would be progressing the story forward. I guess Marvel just doesn't like to see their heroes naturally progress in life; they would prefer them regressing backwards. Also, I don't know if I speak for the majority of Spider-Man fans today, but I am SICK of Aunt May. I don't hate her, but I really want her to finally die off and just be with Ben again. Peter always having to worry about Aunt May's health and safety really got old over the years and I felt really held him back from being the best hero he could be on multiple occasions. Aunt may has had multiple heart attacks, strokes, radiation poising, you name it and the writers STILL keep her croaking. Seriously, let the old coot rest in peace already! The only way I would even consider picking up new Spider-Man comics again is if they bring Peter and Mary Jane back together and they finally kill off Aunt May properly.
For real. That decision was plain idiocy. He prolongs Aunt May's suffering, and then she dies a few months later. Now what? You sacrificed an 80-something year old woman's life for that of your wife and potential future family?! After she dies, Peter is left all alone with no one by his side .
Oh did Aunt May die and i missed it? I clearly havent been paying attention to the recent comics if she did, haha.
@joshalan5125 No, but she's an old lady. No offense, but she's still going to die in a few months to a year, though. Peter foolishly sacrificed his marriage to the woman of his dreams forever just to save an octogenarian. After Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy, Peter should know better about how quickly one's life can be taken away from you and accepting what you have instead.
don;t forget that May has been around with a lot of men since then, Jesus the old woman has some serious game
@@Gotten1888 Let's see, the only two that come to mind after Uncle Ben were Nathan Lubinsky and Jarvis briefly. Did I miss any or were they after One More Day?
love triangles are the cheapest way to create conflict in a narrative, it's the only explanation I can think of why is this so recurrent in comics
I hate love triangles with a passion 😒 😤
Another Bruce Timm instance of hero cuckoldry: Hawkman is replaced by Green Lantern (John Stewart) as Hawkgirl's soulmate and was treated as a stalker suffering a delusion for believing that he was supposed to be with Hawkgirl - a character who he is ordinarily linked to romantically across countless incarnations. In the DCAU, this was a delusional belief so powerful that Hawkman's repressed desires are what Shadow Thief, who is one of his main villains. Of course, in this continuity, Hawkgirl was already dating Green Lantern before Hawkman entered the picture at all and Green Lantern's and Hawkgirl's son (Warhawk) would be a member of the Justice League in Batman Beyond's era (via an episode set in the future in the Batman Beyond era).
I think it's possibly the most meta instance of superhero cuckoldry I can think of as it's not technically cuckoldry in-continuity (Hawkman is actually confused about his relationship with Hawkgirl), but when you think about it in the context of the adaptation, it's profoundly disrespectful to anyone with any degree of investment in the Hawkman-Hawkgirl relationship, which is at the core of most Hawkman/Hawkgirl comics.
Yeah they did a real double-whammy on Hawkman in the DCAU, first with Hro Talak and then with Carter being a stalker💀💀
it just felt disprespectful, why add it in? it was just a slap in the face to the fans of the Hawkman
@@Gotten1888 I hate to say this, but that's like four people 💀
i hate Green Lantern and HawkGirl ship ,some said the just human i said bad person and they cheat bro ,Hawkman support to be with Hawkgirl true love immortal story and they try so hard to make her a H*e
I unfortunately have to admit I'm a big fan of GL and Hawkwoman. It feels like a natural relationship in the way they originally wrote it. I dig it. I don't consider it cuckolding because of how they wrote Hawkman. Now is Hawkman and Hawkwoman appeared like they originally did. Then I'd hate it.
Makes you wonder how Mr.Fantastic and Susan Storm stayed together this long in the main universe.
Because, as sad as it is, people don't talk about them (or the Fantastic Four in general) as much they do about Spider-Man and MJ.
Susan has Namor
@@millerjames908yeah, and in the ultimate universe, Namor forced her to let him do her infront of mr fantastic to stop him from destroing the world.
@@Valkyrie77 you are joking right?
@@drparadox7833 nope
Im surprised you didn't mention that time where Spidey Black Cat and Daredevil worked together. Cat was flirting with Spidey as always but at the end of the day she went to DD to surprise and sleep with him. Spidey unnoticed followed Cat and saw from afar that and just noted: "ah, so that's my supervillain origin"
Bro, I completely forgot about that!
@@T-verseTrevor yeah... people say that MJ is for the streets because she was trapped for year in other dimension with litteraly the only man on earth and started a relashionship with him (Which makes psychological-wise sense). But Blackcat did him sometimes way dirtier and that more than once.
@leibgarde6144 MJ isn’t for the streets, the writers are💀
@@comiclads True. Personaly I like MJ she keeped Peter grounded and reminded him that theres also a normal man behind his mask. But thanks god Zeb Wells finaly got fired maybe we get now some good writing for Spidey lovelife or his life in general.
Don't be surprised these mfs just wanted to throw shade at DC to defend their boy Peter. It's miserable af but that's what marvel fanboys do.
I like Green Arrow and Black Canary, the only relationship that looks like it has love in it 😭
They’re great together, love the combination of love and team work between them🏹🐦⬛
Batman banged Black Canary at one point in a overly edgy comic
Wrong!
They are both cheaters. They are a Bad couple
Nah they too often make BC a man hating feminist these days.
@@miguelorozco4445 please tell me it isn't true 😢
My favourite relationship has to be Wally West and Linda Park. It was really unique in the late 90s-00s to see a major superhero get married and have children.
Granted, the stalking was getting very weird near the end of it. But now in mainline comics, his stable home life has been reinstated.
So happy for Wally
ReedSue better
The people writing these heroes are miserable in their personal lives and they are projecting into these stories.. I don’t even read comics anymore because of these clowns destroying my favorite characters
Yeah, I wonder if these writers got into a rocky relationship where their significant other openly cheat on them with other people and then use comics to vent their frustration
Yea I believe that’s what they are doing too. It’s sad and makes them look even worse than they feel. Shows the type of person they are
Opposite of me. If I were miserable, I'm at least making sure my creations/characters I'm in charge of be happy. Bit weird, I know.
@@sauce2514 because your a good person deep down, and deep down they are not. I respect you for that
Such a bizzare thing thats happening of late. Like Imagine if in the latest chapter of Dragon Ball Super Bulma started cheating on Vegeta with mr Satan?
That will never happen though bc dbs isnt that weird 😂
And bulma is actually smart unlike mj
i mean it kinda happend with bulma ditching yamcha to date vegeta in the first place.
@@housewilma4904 ironically because yamcha was cheating on bulma
Say what you will about Eastern comics, but at least they’re more coherent than Western.
Stuff like this really brings into question how the actual fuck shit like this gets allowed
I don’t think “ allowed” should be a part of it
Humiliation rituals
These morons keep buying these shitty books
With how many times Spidey has been cucked he’s basically the super hero version of Sneako
Who's Sneako?
@@trevturp6891someone who let his girlfriend sleep with other men while watching. He says that this is an experiance every man in a relationship should go through
@@dripblast9711 I just looked him up. According to Google, he's a singer.
Naw can't compare the two sneako a snake
@@dripblast9711he wants other men to suffer the way he did even though he brought that on himself
Spider-Man fans (me included) are smoking eight cigarettes at once just to deal with the stress the writers put us through on a daily basis.
Also an obligatory Paul can go to hell. Peter and Felicia was always how I thought it should go anyway.
Yeah but Felicia and Pete can’t stay together if it’s ’not toxic enough’ 💀
@@comiclads Same goes for Spiderman and MJ.
No you didnt, Felicia doesn’t love Peter Parker she likes Spider-Man
@@thomasjohnson1885yeah when he unmasks in front of her she can t handle it.also she s too unstable.
Sons of Anarchy would stress me out the same way.
You guys forgot that time Wolverine got body swapped with Spider-man and did it with MJ
Bendis truly needs to be locked up for that
like why?
why would wolverine say yes to that?
when the wildma n that he is could have any girl he wanted?
@@housewilma4904 I mean, Wolverine was a 100+ year old man creeping on teenager Jean Grey.
they didn't do it did they, wolverine attempted and MJ declined
They didn't do it, they just made out. Which is still kinda skeezy when MJ was 15 and while Peters body was 15, Wolverine was a grown ass man pretending to be Peter Parker
Superman and Lois are now in a healthy relationship. Thank God
Marriage? These days that’s the most toxic relationship of all.
@@Outlier999what are you talking about 💀 they’re legit the healthiest relationship in comics
Dont Pay him attention@@emilyravary284. He's one of those "love is a lie" people
For now... let's hope it stays that way.
@@emilyravary284😂😂😂😂
Wrong, ReedSue is the HEALTHIEST married couple in comics
Imagine being a peak human, the cream of the crop, the 0.001%, and still not being good enough.
The author of that Spider-Man comic has a track record of inserting this into other things he’s involved in
How many?
@@Kira22558 besides the multiple humiliating situations of Peter, he’s also involved in Deadpool 3. It’s also very possible that he’s writing these situations due to his marriage with SNL Heidi Gardner, from what I heard
@@-obamium5320Poor guy, why won't he just leave so his writing becomes better? 😂
@@mittag983 divorced recently nothing really changed probably get worse
My favorite comic book relationship is Spider-Man and Sophia "Chat" Sandoval in the Marvel Adventures comics.
You a real G for recognizing her...
I was going to mention her but yeah, Chat is a keeper bro, if she ever gets introduced in a main-line story and he gets cucked i'm reaching OJ Simpson levels of crashout
Bro W MAN. CHAT IS THE BEST
Man, that's the crowning example of how the only time the families work out is side projects that don't get followed up on.
Is this the one I'm remembering?
Maybe I should change my heroes, these guys don't inspire me anymore 💀
Peter after all this bullshit in his life being one of the most tragic heroes still stood crime with a smile
Welcome to Kamen Rider. We also have unfortunate love lifes. Though at least two of us are fine.
Ur a coward bro
@@jyymorrison1445 he is indeed a coward. Bro is a bigger hero for getting through thus
@@MissionControlDRG exactly, I like spiderman even more than before because thru all this evil shit he still stand strong and stays a hero. Dudes willpower and discipline is insane , true masculine hero right there
It's called the Humliation Ritual. They're doing this to everything we love.
This happened in their lives so they vent by projecting it into the stories
I love the Robin and Starfire relationship but it's hard to see what's become of it
Oh another example of relationships where the writers cucked the hero... I didn't even remember that...
No! That was my favourite part of the Judas Contract
They haven't dated in the comics in decades.
There is an actual comic where Robin/ Dick Greyson cheats on Starfire/Kori with Batgirl/Barbera Gordon. I hate him for that.
It really sucks because both of Peter's relationships with MJ & Gwen Stacy at their best, are where they're figuring out their problems and progressing as a couple, taking their time with it (Like with MJ in the original Ultimate Spider-Man for a bit after finding out extremely early on.) plus the cute stuff between them here and there.
It says a lot when the one Spider-Man run people are loving to death, is the one where not only are Peter & MJ married, have two kids together, but also accepts who he is as Spider-Man, and even gives him the name at the end of the FIRST arc.
and there is the new ultimate spider man giving big middle finger to 616 spider man 😂
Nah. That’s 617 Spider man
@@xenonthegigachadhedgehog8868 6160 Spider-Man to be exact
Characters aren't allowed to be happy. There's no drama in a stable relationship.
- Comic Writers
Spider-Man and Spinneret, the RYV version of Peter and MJ. Recently however, I think Invincible and Atom Eve is a VERY close second.
Invincible and Atom Eve are goated
@@comicladsits kinda funny because they also had a Paul moment. Mark was gone for 5 years and eve hooked up with this random alien guy. It was better executed but mark definitely was bitter over it 😭😭
@@ascendedsavage7040 didn't Eve immediately dump him as soon as Mark came back because he was a dick to her and Terra? Also I don't remember Mark being very bitter about it, at least not towards Eve.
@@xenorex481 pretty sure she dumped him before mark came back, yeah mark was very bitter (because who wouldn’t be) but not at eve which is why I said it was executed way better than the Paul Mj stuff
I never liked how Eve would slap/assault people, specially Mark, whenever she got up in her feelings. Also, the random alien she hooked up with came from a culture that was *explicitly* centered on sexual pleasure, selfish hedonism and not having responsibilities, and she has the gall to act offended by it only when Mark comes back.
Black Canary and Green Arrow are my favorite comic couple. In many interactions they’re always paired together and I don’t really see much toxicity between them. So I don’t know why the Arrowverse had Oliver end up with Felicity when there were TWO black canaries in the show.
The comics had Ollie cheat a few times and Canary bang Batman
I hated it.
Yeah Ollie literally came back from the dead because of his love for Dinah, just to cheat. Fucking writers@@starrsmith3810
0:21 They want to publish Batman comics forever and ever and ever and ever and ever The longer it goes on like this the worse it gets
The problem is that most writers are mentally still teenagers. They think relationship drama is somehow mature.
You can write like a teenager and not cuck your heroes. Cucking is usually not a hallmark of juvenile fiction. This is the product of a sick mind that loves to spite long-standing and beloved heroes.
False maturity
This video is simultaneously a joy and a challenge to litsen to. On one hand, the commentary is great! On the other hand... Paul.
BAHAHAH. Thank you for tuning in despite Paul’s presence 🤟😂
Black Cat/Spider-Man, Starfire/Nightwing, Batgirl/Nightwing & Catwoman/Batman are my favorite comics couple, but in cartoons it was Wonder Woman and Batman(especially in JL/JLU), Tony and pepper in Armored Adventures and Gwen and Peter in Spectacular
Nightwing and starfire is my favorite relationship in comics
1:50: Carnage and Shriek. Cause I'm sick like that 😆
Their relationship in Deadpool vs. Carnage is genuinely really wholesome. Just two psychos having fun together and being surprisingly cute.
I guess some writers have this view that if you're a hero you have to suffer in some sort of way.
I mean there's strife and then there's the universes punching bag.
@@zionleach3001that's the point I'm seeing: everyone i came to love and know has become now a punching bag with no hope of ever gaining anything. Ans this is what is making me lose hope in humanity: the way they ruin everything they make.
Stan lee would be rotting in his grave if he sees this, not just him, but kevin Conroy as well.
Just accept It: superheros are dead and so is the comic industry....and so it's humanity
@@lautarogomez9711 There's hope in indie comics. Most are making publishers obsolete. Slowly they're gaining attention and fans.
@@zionleach3001 yet Indies will also suffer for this. Is the endless cycle
@@lautarogomez9711 Guess I'm more optimistic, caus most people only talk about Marvel and DC. I don't hear much about Boom, Image, IDW, and Dark Horse.
Honorable mention: Maria Castle being brought back to life just to hate on Frank and taking his stuff and money.
Agreed
Bruce Timm's universe will always have that gigantic blemish that I just can't ignore. Batman hooking up with Batgirl is vile.
It disgusts me that one of the best versions of the batman mythos in history also has batman having sex with batgirl
My favourite relationships in all of comics are:
1) Superman and Lois Lane
2) Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon
3) Daredevil and Elektra
Great picks
Dick and Star > Barb. Barb has been around with Jason too 🤨
@@RiceCubeTech No smartass, she hasn't. Three Jokers wasn't part of the main continuity. But Starfire has slept with Roy Harper.
@@The_Phantasm eh you’re right. Either way barb is boring as fuck
@@RiceCubeTech Seems you just happen to have an unpopular opinion then.
I am vividly convinced that Paul is a spawn of Mephisto of the One more Day wish in human flesh.
Another example I like to bring up is Cyclops from the early 2000’s X Men movies. From the beginning of the first movie it’s established that Scott and Jean are in a relationship but Logan has feeling for Jean and the story plays out in a way were it’s a good thing that Jean is cheating on Scott for Logan and Scott for some reason is presented as the “bad guy” of the love triangle and how he’s getting in the way of Jean’s and Logan’s relationship. It good so bad that in the 3 rd they kill of Scott right at the start of the movie and he’s basically forgotten about for the rest of it.
So THIS is why the Spider-Man X Morrigan ship blew up.
Bruh, Capcom the only ones out here trying to give Peter a dub. Tragic.
It’s that infamous photo. Morrigan may be a succubus but her desire for Peter is actually genuine and if you look at any other image that’s canon, she does not have that same expression.
Alright one last comment about this.
Remember Toriyama? Remember what he did with Chichi and Goku?
Yeah, I don't remember either because Toriyama knew that its better they keep together. No more love interest on Goku since he is no casanova and he has zero reason to seek any other lady. He already has Chichi and thats all there is to it.
With all of the memes I've seen of the MvC collection, I'd like to see one where Morrigan has been acting like a therapist for Spider-Man due to Paul's existence.
All of these characters should've been retired decades ago. Over an infinite runtime, every comic character will go through every possible character development including being cucked.
Facts the Spider-Man writers have been chasing the Conway/Romita years since their childhoods reading those runs. Problem is all that was new and original, now they're just doing their own version through a cheap lens
So, it's like this. Western people, especially American, has always have this idea that idealistic or optimistic do-gooders with happy endings are "boring" in fiction. You can see this from people's tendency to root for or make excuse for anti-heroes and villains instead since they're seen as the underdogs. This idea that "good guys are boring" is deep-seated everywhere in the genre and it easily influences writers.
The writers, desperately want to do everything to make marketable stories, start throwing superheroes in every single trauma in the book in order to ramp up tensions in the challenges and problems the heroes have to overcome. Many even come to genuinely believe that heroic characters *cannot* be interesting without having deep-seated traumas and failed romances. The problem is that these tensions stack; they have to keep escalating, and you end up at the point where superheroes *can't* solve their problems without lasting consequences. Eventually, just like 616 Peter Parker, you come to the point where *all* these superheroes can do is screwing up, ruining their love lives, and be considered failures because they steadfastly refuse to kill. Both the writers and the audiences simply don't care, because they're too busy bootlicking excessively depressing stories with bittersweet or downright bad endings.
Despite being a pioneer of the superhero genre, I dare say that America, since 9/11 and postmodern deconstructionism, is one of the most cynical and pessimistic of all countries that try to adapt and sell these sorts of heroic stories.
I love this detailed post. Why do you think this is? What made western people have this idea that optimistic is boring?
There are three kinds of comic book writers:
a.) The writer that creates unforgettable, beautiful works that you'll remember for your whole life.
b.) The writer who decides that what readers really want is to see their favourite character get disfigured and eaten alive, and then have their body desecrated in the worst, most ungodly ways imaginable.
c.) The writer who just doesn't understand what readers want, and doesn't pretend to know nor care.
d). The writer that understands their characters and its fans, and decides to fix all the tom-fuckery done in previous runs by allowing the character and their allies have great character arcs.
kinda off topic but i dont want mj to end up with peter in EVERY single adaptation bc there's no variety so it easily gets boring and repetative. which is why i dont want mcu peter to back with mj she already had her chance and she already ended up with peter in the raimi movies, 90s spiderman, marvels spiderman 2017 etc. it'd be a nice change of pace if he ended up Black Cat or heck even Kitty Pryde which would make sense since the mcu is introducing the X-Men so it would be the perfect time to do it maybe after X-Men 1 and 2 and then we get a Spider-Man and Kitty Pryde Romcom Movie that would go so HARD
That's like saying you don't want Superman to end up with Lois Lane. Mary Jane Watson is Spider-Man's most iconic love interest. She's more iconic than Gwen Stacy. Spider-Man and Mary Jane are one of the best couples in comic book history before Marvel ruined them.
@@callmejacob3234 im saying that i dont want every adaptation to have peter end up with mj its different with Superman cuz Lois apart from lana is his only love interest and was there from the start unlike peter who has had multiple love interest nah man Chat is better than Mj. also so lets say that the next 10 spiderman adaptation have peter ending up with mj again your telling me that for you it wont get boring and repetative? cuz you seemed to ignore that part
Spiderman doesn't end up with MJ in every single adaption. Matter a fact, Spiderman doesn't end up with her in most adaptions.
@@callmejacob3234 Nol. That isn't like saying you don't want Superman to end up with Lois Lane.
@@callmejacob3234 MJ isn't more iconic than Gwen. Gwen is as iconic as MJ is.
Wanna read some good Peter MJ it's Called Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon lmao
Damn that’s so true💀
Or Dick Grayson and Kori Ander.
Imagine this. Happy superhero man who has a healthy and lasting relationship with his wife and they even have a family and maybe even some family friends that are superheroes. Im talking about the incredibles.
I’m convinced that Marvel wants to eventually phase out Peter Parker all together. They seem to be trying to show us that he’s replaceable in every aspect. Miles Morales has the better power set. Spider-Gwen is a better host of the Venom symbiote. He’s even replaceable as a love interest as most of his girlfriends over the years are in relationships with other men. They’re trying to make him so irrelevant that we wouldn’t bat an eye if Peter just disappeared for good.
they will try, but still make more movies about Peter Parker. Because he out of all Spiders makes them the most money (Untill their contract with Sony will be gone at least)
They realized they can't fully get rid of him but trying to make him a teenager is as much media as possible to keep the relationship drama fresh. He's either a 28 year old loser, or a 16 year old rookie, with little room in-between
They’re going to fail every time. Because Peter is the most iconic Spider-Man. If they get rid of him, people will riot.
@@richborn6700
Sadly yes….
They kind of have to.
Spider-man's going to turn public domain eventually. What I'm more interested in at this point is how DC is going to handle Super-man.
I subscribed a couple days ago! I’ve absolutely loved the content y’all have put out so far. Keep going fellas and keep being honest and raw!
Welcome, Fellow Lad! Thanks for checking us out🫡
The best comic book relationship to me is between Mark and Eve from Invincible. Like it had its ups and downs, but they ended it perfectly, basically answering the "what will you have after 500 years" question, showing adult Mark, Eve, their daughter Terra and whole new viltrum empire
Honestly, my biggest problem with Paul is that nobody seems to be talking about the fact that he kind of kidnapped MJ.
Fun Video Lads!
Thanks For Naming One of the 12 Elephants That Keeps Popping Up In Writer's rooms.
It's a Problem That Really Needs To Be Discussed
Because
(Speaking For the Super Hero Community)
We Can't Take it Anymore.
Great video😂 Glad i discovered this channel today by chance. And this is another reason why i am glad i dropped comics abd started buying manga. Actual closure and finality in the latter compared to the former. Oh, and many relationships in manga actually have good payoffs and editorial mandayes keep many mangakas from inserting their worst personal relationship issues in the stories
And then they wonder why Demon Slayer.. yes, just that one manga sold more than the whole western comic medium put together...
Peter Parker and Sophia "Chat" Sanduval have one of the most beautiful relationships I've ever read and it's targeted at a younger audience of Spider-Man fans. If you guys haven't heard of it I do recommend giving it a read. She is canonically, the only girlfriend he has had that: healed him in battle, forgiven his times of need being Spider-Man, aided in smaller ways for catching bad guys but most of all. She is the only one I have ever seen dynamics wise, mirror and complete Peter Parker. She knew him first as Spider-Man but fell in love with Peter the further she got to know him. Seriously underrated and I'm glad that tomboy didn't get adapted elsewhere to not be ruined.
Technically speaking in the comics Superman nd Lois lane are married and they have there son Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy as his 10 year old self and it was freaking fantastic and amazing seeing them as a family in my opinion.
Until Bendis thought “No, let’s make Jon a grown ass man when he’s supposed be eleven and ruin his life and his family’s lives”
@@kidinky1271 oh believe me I am still pissed off about that and I will never ever understand why did Bendis aged up my boy Jonathan Samuel Kent just for his terrible legion book that nobody liked myself included, and also drives me crazy that DC won't just retcon this garbage and deage Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy back to his little 10 year old self but that's just my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka yeah. Not to mention, he basically got tortured for (supposedly) 7 years and now he comes back home just for him to become Superman(in very rushed manner in my opinion) without really addressing on how fuck up he must be. Also, why the hell would his parents let him go with his grandfather who they never even met before?? Like, huh?? I could go on but Jesus Christ 😫
@@kidinky1271 which was just garbage on so many levels and still drives me crazy that dc won't retcon this crap out of existence in my opinion.
@@TevyaSmolka dc probably won’t retcon it because it would be quite pedophilic between Jay (Jon’s boyfriend) and Jon. I mean, in my eyes, it might as well be. In conclusion, Jon growing up too fast and becoming Superman AND getting him into a relationship almost immediately is a garbage way to do my fav character(the character that got me into DC in the first place)
You not to far off when you mentioned writers experiencing this shit. Few months ago found out current Spider-man writer Zeb Wells was getting a divorce , that might explain why he randomly broke up Peter & Mj right after they just got back together. #CuckeningIsReal
I feel like there should be a rule where you are only allowed to write couple when you are 1) not in a honeymoon or 2) not in a divorce, separation, or something like that. Otherwise you just have bitter people venting their frustration onto the readers
Maybe women should stop cheating lol
The Osborne “Org-online” face was hysterical 😂
A quote that comes to mind is "Authors write what they know" - so Superheroes can't have stable relationships and get cu*ked? ... Sounds like some writers want to make their characters suffer cause the world made them suffer.
I once read a comment on another video talking about Spider-Man's current treatment from Zeb Wells as being comparable to an NTR plot...But followed up by saying that NTR doesn't get as cruel as Marvel does toward Peter.
I hope Spider-Man enters public domain sooner rather than later. Anything to allow him to have good stories would be welcomed.
No wonder Manga has usurped Comics so easily
This channel is a breath of fresh air
This is why Manga is kicking the c*** out of American comics. Don't me wrong, I love comics, but you could just let Spider-Man get a happy ending and then focus on a different one, whether it's Miles or whether it's noir, but God damn, let's when these guys get a win.
You know that Japan has their own cuckold genre right ? called NTR (netorare, netorase and netori)
They are worse than western comics, when comics don't have a cuckold genre
manga knows that the NTR doujins is where you go if you want to see cuck shit.
How is that the reason? Half the guys in manga these days are dudes who get women thrown at them only to blush and freak out. I actually read manga bruh lmao.
@@jsmoothd654 he meant the mainstream manga shonen comics, atleast most of them don't have this c*cking bs, and they are still somewhat well written relationships
@@jr5034 Most shonen have terrible romance lmao.
I think it’s somewhat because comics like One More Day blew up and sold incredibly well which is essentially just Peter Parker torture. One of the main writers Joe Quesada just *really* wanted Peter to go back to being a lonely nerd so he had to make a comic that convolutedly did that. A lot of characters, Peter included, act out of character for this to happen. Mary Jane and peter even sell their marriage and love to Mephisto in turn forgetting about one another in exchange for giving Peter another chance after happiness in his new life. From what I heard it’s simply because Joe didnt like that Peter wasnt this downtrodden nerd that’s constantly in agony. Huggbees made an amazing video about it
This is why I actually hate comics. I only like the characters. Comics themselves are a complete mess, and the industry is dying because the ones behind them can't get their shit together
Agreed
You guys have such a phenomenal back-and-forth.It's so entertaining listening to this video.
So i can give background as to why they keep yanking Peter's chain. Peter is seen by Marvel as their 'youth character'. And to quote former head editor "kids couldn't relate to a 30 year old Spiderman who was married and had kids." In Marvel's eyes Spiderman has to remain a young adult for kids to like him. Forever dealing with school, rent, and relationship problems.
Ugh… fuck those idiots…
Pete's head whenever Paul keeps getting mentioned in his presence: *That's Netorare~* -Deadpool, obviously.
I really thought you guys were going to talk about the time Daredevil "cucked" Spider-Man by almost smashing Black Cat and creating the infamous "I think this is my supervillain origin." meme.
The point is to make the heroes suffer, back then writers will just kill their loved ones, but nowadays death isn't painful or "edgy" enough for readers, as people die all the time in these comics, so NTR
I mean, if the writers could, there's will be more superheroes getting r*ped than cucked, but that will be too much, so NTR is the second worst thing that can happen to a hero
I think some of my favorite comic book relationships are
Wally West and Linda Park
Barry allen and Iris West
Tim drake and stephanie brown
Dick grayson and Barbara gordon
Green arrow and black canary.
Also, Bruce timm and zeb wells need to get their shit together💀
Gotta get their heads on straight💀
@@comiclads fr
Well Tim and Stephanie almost broke up for good during the current Young Justice comics cause the writer for it was considering 2 things those being Tim deliberately cheating on Spoiler with Cassie Sandsmark aka Wonder Girl who was Spoiler's best friend and closest confidant on the team, and when that idea thankfully didn't come to pass the other idea was having Tim break up with Stephanie due to him coming out as Bisexual now the idea of Tim coming out as bisexual could work if done right including having him stay with Stephanie and she helps him understand it and accept that side of himself but no they were just going to use a sensitive topic like that to try and force Tim to brake up with Stephanie again thankfully that idea never came to pass.
@@derrickhaggardisn’t it cannon that Tim did break up with Stephanie (in the worst way ever) and is now dating bernard (the most bland guy everr)
@@chrismesidor914 Sadly yes but thankfully Tim managed to at the least repair his friendship with Stephanie
It's reverse Fridging. Instead of the Love interest getting killed to advance the story, the MC has to "die" to advance the story.
Dude, we don’t talk about Comcast that involve Paul anymore
the robert kirkman effect. which means write in random unnecessary affairs that have nothing to do with the plot.
Good point but my biggest gripe is mostly on the xmen side.where they have children but never grow up with them mystique threw away nightcrawler.ignored crayden creed and barely "grew up" rogue. Cyclops sent his son to the future.magneto abandoned the twins.why don t superheroes look after their kids?
Mystique is literally one of the reasons that Creed hates mutants so much
I think it was proven that whenever Pete is happy, sales go down. But recently, sales are down anyways so I don’t even know what to do to the spidey franchise to make it un-fucked.
*EFF PAUL*
most writers doesn't understand what stan lee meant when he create spider man, when he said "i want to make him a teenager, gave him superpower, had a name for it and just for fun, i'm gonna give him personal problem", stan did it to make peter more relatable to readers, even when peter has all this powers, he still have to deal with regular stuff like normal humans do, to keep him grounded
and the marvel writers said "we got you" and crank that shit up to a hundred
Optimis Prime & Elita 1
Batman & Catwoman
Superman & Lois Lane
Snake Eyes & Scarlett
He-Man & Teela.
These are 5 of the greatest power couple ever.