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@@vampyricon7026 it seems you didn’t quite understand what I said. I mean that I cannot pay for italki from where I leave. I wonder if this is some kind of trolling or you really misunderstood
There are historical and cultural links between Cantonese and Vietnamese due to their shared geography, ancient migrations, and the influence of the Baiyue peoples, as well as the extensive interaction between southern China and northern Vietnam. Here’s a detailed overview of the relationship: 1. Shared Baiyue Heritage Both the Cantonese-speaking regions (primarily in Guangdong and Guangxi) and the areas of modern northern Vietnam were historically part of the lands inhabited by the Baiyue people. The Baiyue were an umbrella group of non-Han ethnic tribes who lived in southern China and northern Vietnam, sharing cultural and linguistic similarities. The Yue (越) in Cantonese refers to the historical Baiyue people, while in Vietnam, the Viet (越 in Vietnamese, also referring to the Baiyue) plays a key part in the name Vietnam (Việt Nam 越南). 2. Chinese Imperial Influence on Vietnam Northern Vietnam was under direct Chinese rule for nearly a thousand years, from the Han Dynasty (around 111 BCE) to the end of the Tang Dynasty in the 10th century. During this period, Chinese culture, Confucianism, administrative practices, and language influenced the development of Vietnamese society and language. Chinese domination introduced a large number of Chinese loanwords into the Vietnamese language, particularly in government, philosophy, science, and culture. Although Vietnamese is an Austroasiatic language, a significant part of its vocabulary-especially Sino-Vietnamese words-comes from Chinese. The Cantonese dialect developed in southern China, where these historical Baiyue groups lived, and would have had cultural overlap with what is now northern Vietnam during this time. 3. Nanyue Kingdom (南越國) The ancient Nanyue Kingdom (204-111 BCE) was an important political entity that bridged southern China and northern Vietnam. The kingdom included parts of modern Guangdong, Guangxi, and northern Vietnam. Its founding ruler, Zhao Tuo, was a Chinese general who established an independent state after the fall of the Qin Dynasty. Nanyue represents a period where the southern Chinese (including Cantonese-speaking areas) and northern Vietnamese were part of a common political entity, facilitating cultural and linguistic exchanges. 4. Cantonese and Vietnamese Language Similarities While Cantonese (a Sino-Tibetan language) and Vietnamese (an Austroasiatic language) belong to different language families, there are some connections: Both languages have borrowed a significant number of words from Classical Chinese, which was the language of administration and culture for centuries. Vietnamese and Cantonese retain many similar Chinese loanwords in their vocabulary due to historical influence, particularly in formal and academic language. Both languages are tonal, meaning they use pitch to distinguish word meaning, though the number of tones and the specific tone systems differ. 5. Post-Chinese Rule After the end of direct Chinese rule in the 10th century, Vietnam developed a more distinct national identity, though Chinese cultural influence remained significant. The Cantonese-speaking regions, on the other hand, remained under Chinese control, developing within the broader Chinese cultural and linguistic framework. Summary Cantonese and Vietnamese have historical links through their shared Baiyue heritage and cultural interaction, particularly during the periods when northern Vietnam was under Chinese control. The Nanyue Kingdom and the long period of Chinese rule in northern Vietnam facilitated the exchange of culture, language, and administration between the two regions. Although the two languages are from different linguistic families, both have been deeply influenced by Classical Chinese, sharing a significant number of Sino-derived vocabulary and cultural similarities.
i was recently talking to a friend about some similarities between cantonese and japanese meanings/pronunciations ( “無問題” (no problem) sounding like "mou man tai" and "mu mon dai" + "電話“ (phone) sounding like "din waa" vs "den wa" respectively, iirc) so it was exciting to find out similarities between cantonese and other languages too! learning about linguistics have always scratched a particular itch in my brain and i really enjoyed this video, especially as a cantonese speaker :DD
You should look up "Wasei Kango" 和製漢語. Many modern words in Chinese languages, Vietnamese and Korean were actually created in Japan using Chinese as a basis.
@@mybutthasteeth1347 Taiwanese Hokkien or just Hokkien in general shares a lot of similarities with the Japanese language and it's not because of Japanese colonialism but more towards borrowed vocabularies from mainland China to Japan during the ancient middle ages period
Hence the meaning of the number zero as không because zero is "empty" ("a place holder" in mathematical terms), the sky is never empty (For Abrahamic "religions", there's a "Father in Heaven" & for Buddhists, Taoists and Hindus, there's all sorts of Deities. There's also Asgard & Valhalla, Thor, Loki and the Valkyries, etc... in Norwegian/Scandinavian mythology and Hercules, Zeus, Hera, Gaea, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Persephone, Hades, etc... in ancient Greek mythology. The Romans don't have mythology, they only copied from Greek mythology, and changed all the names so now Aphrodite becomes Venus and Eros becomes Cupid.)
I think it might be more prudent not to say that so definitively. I know the sino-vietnamese noun "không" is sino-vietnamse 空. But the adverb "không", being the main negator the language, I'm not sure. Did ancient Vietnamese change their negator to "không - 空" (from "chẳng", "chả", maybe) post-sinicization? Or even ancient Vietnamese used different method for negation (without a negating word like "không")? Or it was a case of false friend like Vietnamese "chào" and Italian "ciao", and the noun "không" and the adverb "không" are actually from different origins? Sadly study of etymology is basically non-existent for Vietnamese.
@@tuanld91Nếu đọc sách Nôm, chúng mình thấy rất là nhiều chữ ko dùng nữa như ngày xưa. Có chữ giống "chưng -> ở", "chăng -> không", "ghín -> cẩn thận", "giá -> lạnh", "trốc -> đầu", "nừng -> một chút", "tác -> tuổi", "mắng -> nghe", v.v.
“Không” is a homophones. Noun “không” meaning “không/空/empty space or number zero”, negator “Không” serves the purpose in a negative sentence that refer to the non-occurrence of an action or the absence of a quality; such as “bất/不” or “một/mốt/没” in sino-vietnamese. It sounds the same but not necessary the same word or character in ancient times. Moreover, old Viet people also used “chữ nôm/南字” some were phonetically formed with the existing (Han) sino-characters/漢字, so might this menthod were adopted with the Romanticized characters later, “they write what they speak”.
@@tuanld91The fact that "chẳng" has survived in some uses into the modern era, and that it used to be used for more cases of "không" suggests to me that "không" as a negator displaced "chẳng" since Middle Vietnamese (the time of chữ nôm). Meanwhile, the word "không" was present as a Chinese character reading since Vietnamese independence around 1000 CE. So maybe the Chinese loanword "không" gained "zero" and "not" as extra meanings and became the main word for them in Modern Vietnamese (since 1600). Unless someone can provide an alternative explanation.
In my experience in Hong Kong, Vietnamese pick up Cantonese extremely easily, like it's not even an effort. The only thing they struggle with is the writing system. On the flip side, Koreans learn Mandarin very quickly, particularly in terms of pronunciation. A few Koreans I've met can pronounce Mandarin even better than the average native Cantonese speaker.
@@CookieFonster Chinese characters are used more frequently in South Korea than people realize. Anyone over the age of 50 will recognize at least a few hundred, if not a thousand characters, mostly place name and personal names. The younger generations will recognize substantially fewer, but still at round 100 or more.
@@user-j2w3yL9mj Many of the Vietnamese refugees were Cantonese to begin with. For example, the surname Troung is often the Vietnamese spelling of Chong.
@@Obscuraiit’s actually Trương or Zhang/Cheung. Indeed many Viet refugees were actually Chinese descendants. However, native Viets can pick up Cantonese easily because both languages share similarities
@@BieZhang Cantonese people have natural double eyelids like Vietnamese people, while Northern Chinese people have single eyelids. Regarding genes, Guangdong and Guangxi people have genes very similar to Vietnamese people and completely different from Northern Chinese people.
Actually, some speakers, especially in the rural area of Northern Vietnamese that have a /n/->/l/ shift just like in informal Cantonese. But it's considered as "nói ngọng" aka "improper speaking" rather than a linguistic or dialectal features.
100% of people living in Southern viet nam noi ngong and their acent very heavy because they are originally from Cambodia, people living the north are chinese influence and they learn chinese very fast and people living in Southern Vietnam they can learn khmer campuchia language very fast because they ancestors are khmer mien campucac
Vùng từ Thanh Hoá đến Quảng Ngãi có thể là tàn dư gốc gác ChamPa (từ địa phương : Mô tê răng rứa chỉ có ở vùng này )( Đặc biệt Quảng Bình đến Huế có thời kỳ mấy trăm năm tách hẳn khỏi miền Bắc VN và miền Nam : Vương Quốc Lâm Ấp) . Miền Nam thì phức tạp hơn (nhiều luồng di cư + bản địa). Miền Bắc ,đặc biệt vùng đồng bằng có lẽ chính là vùng bị Hán hóa nhất (hoặc là vùng đất của người Việt cổ nhưng bị ảnh hưởng từ sự cai trị phương Bắc)
Đừng nghĩ người ChamPa chỉ còn thiểu số mà nghĩ nó bị tuyệt diệt( khi chúa Nguyễn Hoàng vào khu vực Thuận Hoá đã có lượng lớn người bản địa tại đó( mà nhưng người bản địa này không hẳn là người di cư từ nơi khác đến, mà có lẽ họ chính là tàn dư người ChamPa còn bám trụ quê hương họ )
@@nofear1496 nhầm hơi to. Vùng Thanh Nghệ Tĩnh mới là đất tổ của người Việt - Mường. Mô tê răng rứa là một lớp trầm tích của tiếng Việt cổ chứ không phải Champa.
10:32 Cantonese also has this classifier-noun structure to denote definiteness, especially in the subject position 11:59 this is likely an areal feature of Southeastern Asia because other languages in the area also use this structure to form comparisons, (the word 過 even sound similar to those of some Tai-Kadai languages)
11:59 I also notice this while listening. In Thai, we use kwa1 (กว่า). VN word structure is easy for most Thai 95% identical. The hard part is vocab that they borrow from Cantonese. According to my little Teochew & French background, I can recognize some Teochew words like hiểu & ga (gare - in French). This help me sometime but not much. My VN gf can speak Thai fluently with basic Thai words. If it's our basic Tai-Kadai vocab, she can grab it fast. But hardly to understand when our loan words from Sanskrit/Pali comes to play.
As a speaker of Mandarin, Taiwanese Hokkien, and Hakka, the ɐ/aː distinction in Cantonese confused me a lot, it felt even counter-intuitive sometimes. It was only as I started learning Vietnamese that it hit me that I can just treat them as long-short pair at first and then work on their nuances later
@@haduong96353aNorthern Vietnam was annexed by a Chinese General. As China kingdoms were fighting each other to gain more power and land. The General with his soldiers were loosing land and retreated back south and establish his new kingdom (The Yue Kingdom). It was more than 1000 years in chinese reign over this region bringing and excercise their culture and customs. There you have it! That's why cantonese language sounds similar to Vietnamese language. Do you know how many chinese dialects are out there? I think the really sounds similar to each other and not to mention the customs? If you would understand the Chinese language as a whole you will see the close connection. For example the meaning of the word: "address" Is there a meaning of the word in the Vietnamese language? In Cantonese-Chinese it means literally "earth and place". Does it mean it in the Vietnamese language too? Many , many chinese words are like that. And it sounds more similar to Mandarin Chinese. Do your research and you will find out your history.
I think the (Vietnamese pronunciation: chuẩn bị = to prepare / be ready) has drifted closer to the (Japanese pronunciation: 準備 Junbi = preparation / ready)
the word for to prepare is also similar in Korean and Japanese. As someone who grew up in a Canto-Viet household who speaks both rather poorly I always had issues with "to prepare" never understand the translation my mom would try to give. But when I learned some Korean, I realised they're all the same haha
It's interesting because "to prepare" is also the same in Mandarin (Zhǔnbèi), Korean (junbi) and Japanese (junbi). While most modern words are completely different, it's interesting that a few words are clearly the same with a few tonal/pronunciation differences.
For those wondering the text in the yựt yựt example is the following in written Cantonese: 人人生出嚟就係自由嘅，喺尊嚴同權利上一律平等。佢哋具有理性同良心，而且應該用兄弟間嘅關係嚟互相對待。 which is Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Thanks for that, as someone who speaks Cantonese and has Vietnamese heritage that passage was mind melting to read!
I was so surprised to see Yựt Yựt mentioned because I knew the guy who created it. He's a Greek-German mathematician/linguist with the tag Sky Darmos. I knew him through his desire to learn more about Chữ Nôm which was the old Vietnamese writing system based on Chinese characters.
NO. Stop nonsense. Stop dreaming. Vietnamese heritage has NOTHiNG related to Cantonese. Only after entire vietnam country watched a lot of Hong Kong dramas, Vietnamese people start to imitate Cantonese heritage.
@@haniahannslew4108 I mean nothing like a little bit of despising the Chinese government to bring people closer together. I can see why especially some Hong Kongers look for other possible roots for their identity given recent history.
7:46 i do want to add in this one it does happen in north Vietnamese too, N shift to L is common in informal Northern Vietnamese and funny enough N shift back to L as well 😂.
@@nomnadayBạn nhầm rồi, nó chỉ xảy ra ở 1 số tỉnh, 1 số huyện của miền bắc thôi, nó k chiếm đa số. Có thể bạn là người miền nam nên bạn không đi nhiều tỉnh miền bắc nên bạn không rõ. Hà Nội trước khi sáp nhập Hà Tây thì không ngọng giữa N và L, người Hà Tây mới ngọng L và N.
as a native Vietnamese speaker, this video gave me a serious headache and I took a full 2 hours to think about my language again, cause this is not what I though for the whole life about our country's language, it's so complicated and far far away than what we studied about Vietnamese, I always confused when someone say "Vietnamese is extremely hard" and now I understand why :_)))
Vietnamese language is NOT similar to Cantonese, but Vietnamese language is more similar to Mandarin. For example, Here are the list of Mandarin similar to Vietnamese language. 究 jiu = cíu 江 jiang = giang 开 kai = khai 酒 jiu = zịu 水 shui = thủy 客 khe/ke /khuh= khách 斷 Duàn = đoạn 國徽 Guóhuī = Quốc huy 發揮 Fāhuī = phát huy 災難 Zainan = tai nạn 事故 shigu = sự cố 苦 ku = khổ 艱難 Jiānnán = gian nan 流 Liu = liu 口 Kǒu = khẩu 保安 Bǎo'ān = bảo an 萬 Wàn = vạn 層 Céng = tầng 事 Shì = sự 量 Liàng = lượng 花 Huā = hoa 貨 Huò = hoá 臟 Zàng = tạng 發揮 Fāhuī = phát huy 沿海 Yánhǎi = duyên hải 生才 Shēng cái = sinh tài
Yes it is! The region of Guangdong used to be part of what China called Yue, inhabited by the Bai Yue (hundred Yue tribes). After the Chinese conquered part of the region, the rulers there decided to break off from China and formed Nan Yue, or southern Yue. They then expanded into northern Vietnam, bringing the name with them. Nan Yue, or Vietnam, then lost the holdings within China, being left with northern Vietnam.
@@TrueSchwarActually Yue people were living in nowadays Guangdong, part of Fujian and Northern Vietnam. Theses regions belonged to the same country called Nan Yue.
@@TrueSchwarthat's a modern myth, the Zhuang of Guangxi also claim the exact same origins as the Vietnamese but both Guangxi and Vietnam were sinicised during the Han and later periods. Zhejiang also still calls itself "Việt" and even Fujian claims to descend from the ancient Yue. In reality it was a classifier to denote people South of China (which at the time is only what is now central northern China), this is also why Tai speaking people and Vietic speaking people can both claim to be the Au Lac because this connection was invented by later historians creating an ethnogenesis. Had Guangdong been an independent country it would have a national myth identical to Vietnam.
Vietnam doesn't border Guangdong/Cantonese, but Guangxi Zhuang ethnic province which speak Zhuang language. The map is false 0:10, Vietnamese and Cantonese languages don't border each other. The similarity mentioned applies to many tonal languages, such as Thai, Hmong...etc. It's very misleading. Vietnamese and Cantonese are different in grammar, syntax, & vowel sound which determines pronunciation. Both don't sound the same at all. Only similarity is Chinese loanwords adopted by Vietnamese but based on Viet pronunciation. Case in point, most Vietnamese grew up watching Hong Kong movie couldn't pick up the language or even pronunciation. In Saigon's Chinatown district 5, those living next to Hoa Chinese community could not either.
You are incorrect: people in Guangxi used to speak Cantonese with Guangxi dialect. People of Zhuang ethnic minority, the biggest ethnic minority, will speak Zhuang. Chinese people will speak either Guangxi dialect, Cantonese (very rare to find someone under age 40 who can speak Cantonese in Guangxi nowadays) or Putonghua, not Zhuang, unless they happened to have learned it, then maybe.
@@trien30 I stated facts, you're presenting false info. Guangxi is historically Zhuang ethnic that speak Zhuang, a Tai language. Even the Han Chinese in Guangxi don't speak Cantonese which is only spoken in Canton/Guangdong, hence the name Cantonese. And population of Cantonese speaker in Guangxi is less than 10%, mostly new migrants.
@@numerals8939 Historically Guangxi is Zhuang majority, it's full the name is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. Han Chinese only move in during modern times. Vietnamese don't know anything about China trying to spread false info.
@@numerals8939 Guangxi is historically Zhuang ethnic majority, only speak Zhuang. The full name is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. Han Chinese are modern migrants.
It's ok. You can write in Traditional Chinese when talking about Mandarin too, which was the original by the way. Simplified Chinese did not exist in China until 1950s and 60s.
Middle Chinese initial consonants 精母, 清母, 從母, 心母, 邪母, 書母, 船母 became /t/ in Vietnamese. For example 思想 sī xiǎng si soeng tư tưởng 首相 shǒu xiàng sau soeng thủ tướng
The “an” as in pinyin, transformed into “iên” in Vietnamese, like the word “自然”(zìrán) will be direct pronounced as “tự nhiên” Something I find quite funny learning Mandarin was the Sino-Vietnamese pronounciation of Chinese-origin words in Vietnamese.
@@thanhdatchu258here you can see 自 in Mandarin is zì, and tự in Vietnamese. 自 is in 從母 in Middle Chinese. initial consonant 從母 became j/q/z/c (pinyin) in Mandarin, and t in vienameae
書, the Sino-Vietnamese word for "book" is 'thu' which starts with th and not t, in Vietnamese, library is 'thu viên' (using 書院, the original ancient Chinese word meaning "a school" or "anything related to academics" is reused in Vietnamese to mean "library/libraries.")
@@thanhdatchu258the -iên was based on Hokkien, Hakka, or Teochew, not reversibly applicable in Pinyin because Pinyin was used to screw up Chinese phonetics via dialects around Beijing only called Putonghua when spoken where Mao also messed up the tones, but it is used in romanizing certain words in Taiwanese Mandarin, AKA Guoyü.
They belong to completely different languages families, the only thing that makes Vietnamese similar to any Chinese language is because they borrowed quite a lot from the Chinese language, like the Korean and Japanese.
They are not completely different languages. During the Han dynasty, Gunagdong, Guangxi and Hanoi were part of the same Annan province. They all share a common Han Annamese language , hence the similarities like no other.
@@hunterl4328Nah, Vietnamese is an Astroasiatic language, which is a cpletely different language family to the Sinitic (Chinese) languages. You have to remember that before Chinese people and the Chinese state ever arrived in the Vietnamese region, there were already other people living there. And the characteristics of modern day Vietnamese show very clearly that it descended more strongly from the languages spoken by those people before the Chinese arrived. Before Emperor Han Wudi's conquest of Vietnam, there were the Baiyue, who in the later years had some mixed ethnic states with significant indigenous and Chinese populations (e.g. Southerm Yue/ Nanyue Kingdom). Before then, there were no Chinese people at all. During this mixed history of Vietnam and subsequent migration and trade, Vietnamese picked up a huge Chinese language influence, but it is still more closely connected to other Astroasiatic languages than it is to any form of Chinese.
In Thai 3:49 room = ห้อง hong sack = ไต้ tai (northern dialect) 10:58 continuous particle = อยู่ yu 11:15 future tense verbal particles = จะ ja, สิ si (northeast dialect or Lao), เต te (Shan language) 11:40 book = หนังสือ nang sʉ 12:00 comparative “more than” = กว่า gwa I found so many similarities in our languages!
There're many non Sino-Viet words in Vietnamese that similar to Thai as well: E.g. Banana: Chuối = กล้วย, Chicken: Gà/Qué = ไก่, Moon: Trăng = จันทร์ etc.
0:56 tones are wrong lmao 廣 gwong2 is rising 話 waa6 when used to denote a language is changed to a rising tone waa6-2 also 東 dung1 is pronounced identically to Mandarin pinyin dong1, not the unrounded vowel you used. edit: you also pronounced it with an /-n/ final, which is wrong. You pronounce it right when you say it in the English way, so idk why it's so wrong when you actually tried to read it. 3:46 the speaker (correctly) pronounces 房 with a changed rising tone (tone 2), which is different from the dictionary form fong4. the changed tone is usually indicated as fong4-2. same with 袋 as doi6-2 7:44 the onset /n/ -> /l/ is a weird one. It's simultaneously was prominent that it's very old, but it might be reversing due to news influence. I'm not sure about that one. 8:34 the zi6 in hon3 zi6 漢字 is a pure /i/ vowel, not the almost-Mandarin syllabic thing. Though, I've heard it was historically the syllabic fricative in like the 1800s or something. 11:06 I think you used the wrong syllable, it sounded like you read gon2 instead of gan2 /kɐn³⁵/ 12:06 過 gwo3 is mid flat, not rising
@@YorgosL1 got no clue what you're trying to say. Ignore the spelling, they're the same sound. 東 /tʊŋ⁵⁵/. Though, upon second listen he also pronounced the final as /-n/ instead of /-ŋ/, so if that's what you're referring to then yeah. LingoLizard pronounced it as something like [tɯn] instead of properly [tʊŋ]
@@kori228 I can speak both and recognizes the different. They do not pronounce the same. Like 過 / 明 also sound similar in both language but same sound does not = same pronunciation Try to pronounce 同 and compare to mandarin. Completely not similar lmao. Unless u like deaf or do not speak proper Cantonese. Just like 東 DUNHG not Don
as a Vietnamese speaker, i too find Cantonese sounding familiar yet i cant comprehend Cantonese either once when i was a kid, i watched a chinese film on HBO Red, and they speaks in a language that i feel familiar but incomprehensible; the experience felt like a fever dream only later i found that it was in Cantonese
I speak Cantonese and have been to Vietnam multiple times. I don't speak Vietnamese but can still decipher 90% of the paragraphs in Yut Yut even though I have never learnt it. Is there anywhere I can find out more about Yut Yut? Thank you.
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
There is a really cool fact: in the past the Vietnamese really liked to watch Hong Kong's film, especially when they came from TVB, and listen to Hong Kong's songs too. Maybe the similarity in language between two culture makes the fact
Vậy chúng tối xem phim của Mỹ cũng lấy ngôn ngữ của Mỹ áp dụng cho tiếng nói địa phương của chúng tôi hãy😂😂😂, bạn yên tâm người Việt không muốn giống người Quảng Đông đâu nên khỏi suy luận lung tung.
I happen to speak both Cantonese and Vietnamese and live in California. 2nd Chinese generation in VN and moved to the state a long time ago. I just practice them with friends growing up here in the bay area.
GuangDong belonged to Viet Ancient before Han Dynasty invaded 10.B.C . The voice of GuangDong people and Vietnam people (before 1900s) almost are the same of sound. In modern days, after 1940s, vietnam voice records by new latin characters. Some words are the same of sound, others are differences because China tone voice is only 4 and Viet Ancient tone voices is 6. So, China / Han language cannot completely record Viet Ancient voice and transform language.
As a native Cantonese speaker I don't feel connected to the Vietnamese at all because we don't understand a word of vietnamese. I feel more connected with Mandarin Chinese because Cantonese language and Mandarin have a lot in common.
@@quangvinh1153 Stop giving the wrong information, and disinformation. Northern vietnam used to be China's territory until the Ngo Dynasty of vietnam invaded and illegally took northern vietnam away from China. Vietnam is NOT from anciet Nan Yue (or Guangdong) of China.
@@quangvinh1153 Ethnic Kinh of Vietnam originally came from south east asia and concentrated mainly in southern Red River Delta. Vietnam is NOT part of Bai Yue of southern China. Stop trying to relate vietnam with Guangdong. Guangdong of China has NOTHING related to today's vietnam.
As a native Cantonese speaker I don't feel connected to the Vietnamese at all because we don't understand a word of vietnamese. Vietnamese speaking people also don't understand a word Cantonese people speak. I feel more connected with Mandarin Chinese because Cantonese language and Mandarin have a lot in common.
I''m surprised you didnt cover the usage of nouns as pronouns in Vietnamese. I only have limited knowledge that some SEA languages have this feature and wonder if Cantonese have this too.
I am a Cantonese that been speaking viet for 10 years now and I can agree to some extend that it’s share lot of similar word. Most of HK people do not know it
@@nguyenn99527Southern Vietnamese mixed with Khmer people a little bit when they migrated to the Mekong delta but all Vietnamese have the same root from culture to gene.
@@nguyenn99527 Whether the Kinh people (Vietnam) live in the South or the Central region, their ancestors are all migrants from the North (Vietnam). Different dialects are just communication between climate and culture!
As a Cantonese speaker thank you for making this video! I have always been excited to see more content of people comparing Cantonese and Vietnamese as I think we're two people who share one of the most language similarities! A lot of the times, I find that the Sino-Vietnamese words and Cantonese cognate words sound more similar than to Mandarin by a much larger extent.
@vinvin1082 China and Hong kong is not a developed country life in Vietnam way better than China and hong kong ,there a lots homeless people in China and Hong Kong
Guangdong, Guangxi and Vietnam used to be in the single country name Nanyue Kingdom for almost a century before annexed by Han Empire to be a provincial unit as Jiaozhou.
Nanyue was a kingdom setup by Qin general zhaotuo & his 500k soldiers that conquered south China from Qin dynasty in the north. Nanyue eventually fallen & joined Han dynasty. The only link to viets was some of its population was some sinizied newly civilized yue tribes & partial link of the off springs of the Qin soldiers that taken local yue women as their wives. nanyue was one of the small kingdom in China during the han dynasty era. But its the 1st civilized kingdom for mixed & non mix yue population in Southern China at that period of time.
Another sinitic language that is interesting to compare with Vietnamese is Hokkien. Hokkien also has ending consonants like p, t, k and even h, as well as ng in the end and beginning of words. Hokkien also has the implosive, or as I call it, soft b (ɓ). As well as the equivalent of that but for g (ɠ) and l/d (in Hokkien, the letter L sounds like a mix of d and l). On top of that Hokkien also has a very similar O sound to the Vietnamese Ơ, and a second O sound that sounds kind of like the Vietnamese Ô. And a Z sound similar to the Northern Vietnamese R, written with the letter J in Hokkien. Hok-kiàn-uē sī tsi̍t khuán tsiok tshù-bī ê gí-giân -ooh.
Yes, not only Hokkien but also Teochew. Because both languages fall under Southern Min branch of Min Chinese. I think it will be great to compare both Hokkien and Teochew with Vietnamese.
The similarities between Min and Vietnamese languages may be less than the Cantonese to Vietnamese comparison since Cantonese and Vietnamese have more Yue influences.
@@thatvietguyonlineIt has nothing to do with Baiyue…so stop being ignorant! First of all, Baiyue is a collective of tribes in the southern China in ancient times, the tribes were different from another from speaking different languages, sharing different cultures and different ethnicities… Người Việt Nam tối ngày nghĩ rằng Bách Việt là một dân tộc nhưng mà không hiểu biết gì hết. Mấy người Lạc Việt ngày xưa ở miền Bắc Việt Nam bây giờ còn tồn tại ở Malaysia, Orang Asli. Người Lạc Việt hồi xưa là gia đen và nâu. Nếu lên RUclips tìm kiếm người dân “Senoi” thấy là người Lạc Việt giống y chang vậy. Con người Mân việt thì qua Đài Loan hoặc Philippines (Cộng thêm người Champa ở Việt Nam) thì sẽ thấy loại người đó mới chính thức là người Mân Việt. Người Mân Việt nói tiếng Austronesian Con người Lạc Việt nói tiếng Áutroasiatic (như tiếng Campuchia). Đừng thành một thằng dốt mà tối ngày nói về dân tộc Việt😂
Kinh Vietnamese are not related to Han Chinese. However, some Southern Chinese are related to Kinh Vietnamese due to common ancestory of Bai Yue/ Bach Viet tribes. Cantonese for example are a mix of Han (Qin Dynasty) and Yue tribes on maternal side. Guangdong, Guangxi, Hong Kong, Yunnan, Hainan and southern Fujian used to be a part of Vietnam call Nam Việt/ Nan Yue. Interracial mixing and borrowing of languages with each other are bound to happen. Kinh Vietnamese are admixture of two Bai Yue/ Bach Viet tribes that used to live in Southern China. The Ou Yue/ Au Viet and Luo Yue/ Lac Viet. More likely mix between Tai-Kadai/ Kra-Dai and Austroasiatic speaking people and Chinese migration into North Vietnam due to over 1000 year of Chinese colonization. The Vietic language which should be seperate from the Austroasiatic family is actually a Creole language a mix between Tai Kadai, Middle Chinese and Austroasiatic. The Vietnamese language was originally Proto-Viet Muong , Tai speaking people that got mixed together with Annamese which is an ancient Middle Chinese dialect. Which was influence by other Tai-Kadai and Austroasiatic speaking people changing the pronunciations, grammar, tones and vocabularies with loan words.
A very good point and comprehensive explanation. I share similar view with you about the separation of Vietic language. Although Viet share some features with Khmer language in the Austroasiatic family, but the complexity as whole is pretty different to be grouped with.
Vietnamese originally spoke Annamese Chinese, then when Le Loi became emperor of Vietnam, Muong loanwords started to show up in the Vietnamese language. Because of these small percentage of Muong loanwords, Vietnamese is considered Austroasiatic. As you can see, Vietnamese is not really related to other SE Asian languages as portrayed on social media. Sino Vietnamese still retains 100% cognates with Han Chinese.
Baiyue encompasses many different groups. There were Native yue and Chinese yue, both distinguishable and not related. Similarly there are Native Americans and White Americans, both distinguishable and not related. Tai Kadai( Thai and Lao) and Khmer descended from native yue people, while Vietnamese descended from the Chinese yue. This is one of the reasons Vietnamese do not speak Tai Kadai or celebrate their holidays. Most people get confused by the two.
That’s because the first generation of Vietnamese Kinh originally spoke Annamese Chinese(Han) then when Le Loi became emperor of Vietnam Muong(Austroasiatic) loanwords started to appear in the Vietnamese language creating a creole. Because of these small percentage of Muong loanwords, people on the internet consider Vietnamese to be a austroasiatic language. As you can see Vietnamese is not really related to other SE Asian languages.
If Vietnamese is a creole of Tai Kadai, Middle Chinese and Austroasiatic, then where did all the Tai Kadai words go? And how would you classify other Vietic languages, such as Muong, Ruc, Thavung and Arem?
11:53 little nickpicking here The "Bạn" in the answer in this context is meaning "You" and not "I'm" so it should be "Tôi" (formal) or "Mình" (informal)
Vietnamese & Cantonese language doesn't border each other, the map at 0:10 is wrong. Chinese province that borders Vietnam is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous province, speak Zhuang language. Cantonese in Guangdong doesn't border Vietnam. The similarity mentioned in the video apply to many tonal languages too, such as Thai and Hmong. The only common similarity is the adoption of Chinese loanwords. But Vietnamese being Austro-Asiatic has different grammar, syntax and phonology. It actually sounds like Thai, both have same vowel sounds.
@@Shionshowa Only one number sound similar, Thai language came from Tai in Yunnan China which also influenced Vietnamese, northern most Vietnam provinces are also Tai tribe. The vowel sound of Vietnamese is same as Thai. Chinese influence is in the loanwords.
@@uranus9-nn1tk no. When I learn the Thai number it’s reminded me of Cantonese while Vietnamese have native number but Thai native number is exactly how Chinese is. Some is even similar with Hokkien
Exactly 👍 totally agree. Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
@@jademeyip7836 Vietnamese sounds like Thai, nowhere near Cantonese. Vietnamese and Thai have same vowels sound. Look it up. Only people who like to claim similarity are Vietnamese, some of whom even claimed to be Chinese 😂
as a vietnamese and cantonese person, I have never seen videos about cantonese/hong kong before. in my opinion I feel like vietnamese and english are a bit similar.
Every region in China has its own dialect. For example, there are many dialects in a Gansu province in China. They don't understand each other, but they use common Chinese characters. It was not until the founding of New China that the official language, namely Mandarin, began to exist. In ancient times, the Korean Peninsula and Viet Nam were both vassals of China, and even their cultural customs were similar to those of China. Therefore, it is not surprising that there are many China accents on the Korean Peninsula and Viet Nam, but now Chinese characters have been abolished and some Chinese characters are still used in Japan.
Vietnamese language didn't come out until the French took notice of how illiterate the Vietnamese are. The Vietnamese were practically using Chinese phonetically and they have no written language. Only the royalty, rich, business and monks have education but study under the Chinese school. Common folks (peasants) lack in education. This is the time when the French people colonized Indochina. The Vietnamese as of today is a mix of Chinese, French and etc with emphasize on alphabet with accent a gu. It makes it easier than trying to memorize more than 5000+ hieroglyphics.
@@tr1bes: You are wrong. Before the French colony Vietnam. Or Yue Nam had an actual King. Google Zhou Tou and the 100 tribes. Part of the Canton was part of southern Hans. China had these people and it can be said that they are Chinese in their own rights. Cos their DNA heritage dates back 2000 years in the south of china. Many people inside China today are part of the ottoman empire and silk road but the bai yue people were not. They have ties and links to Qin dynasty. Not Qing. It's Qin. It is wrong to say that they are illiterate cos they have imperial documents to document everything. Imperial annuals existed.
Where did you find yut yut from? I would love for Cantonese to transition to a romanization like Vietnamese. It's hard to want to learn Cantonese and improve it when the writing system is Mandarin
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
I am a Cantonese and my mother tongue is Cantonese. I cannot understand Vietnamese at all. Some words in Vietnamese are the same as those in Chinese. It can only be said that ancient Vietnam was influenced by Chinese culture.
crap I haven’t watched this yet but it’s so nifty seeing this video pop up when just a week or two ago I was reminiscing over learning about how some argue for Cantonese possessing 9 tones rather than 6, there are also some arguments that (Northern) Vietnamese possesses 8 tones and not only 6 (in both cases the discrepancy being due to a combination of select tones being paired with a voiceless ending, somewhat altering the articulation of the tone)
We need more vids like this on RUclips that discuss sprachbund relationships as opposed to the zillions of related language comparisons already out there. Thanks for uploading!
In Southern Vietnamese, there are not only Cantonese language, but also Hokkien and Teochew language. Sometimes I am surprised because the Sino-Vietnamese accent here is older than that of Northern Vietnam, why ?
Viet here, at 3:47 I have never seen or heard the word "đãy" before. "đãy" is a deprecated word, it is not used in everyday conversation and can only be found in certain (legacy) literary contexts. We use the word "túi" for bag. p/s: I find the word "đãy" very annoying, because it causes confusion with the word "đẫy".
I would like to add on some notes for this video as someone who is familiar with Vietnamese and Cantonese linguistics: Out of the list of cognates given, the word "tẩy chay" is not Sino-Vietnamese it is a direct loan from Cantonese word. The SV reading would have been "để chế". (A minor note that the Jyutping for "room" and "bag" should be fong2 and doi2; these words have changed tone when used standalone and not in compound words) In addition to the sound change from /p/ to the implosive /ɓ/, implosive /ɗ/ came from former /t/, which then got reintroduced from former /s/, which also got reintroduced but from former /tʃ/. Cantonese indeed has no good equivalent of /ɲ/ in Vietnamese. The former went through a sound shift about 200-300 years ago, which merged /ɲ/ with /j/, so any time there's a Sino-Viet word starting with "nh", it will have a /j/ sound in Canto. In the table of tones for the two languages, I should mention that there is a good (but not perfect) correspondence in tone between Canto and Viet that the video did not depict, and the correspondences are more similar than if you compare either of their tone systems to Mandarin's. If you follow the Vietnamese tone order in the table, the corresponding Cantonese tones should have been 1, 4, 3, 6, 2, 5 (looks rather random but think of the ordering as being 3 pairs of 2 and you can see how makes sense). You will see most of the time that Sino-Viet and Canto tones match one-to-one (although you may see ngang with 4 instead of 1 and hoi with 5 instead of 2 in some cases but that's regular). To those who don't know, the body of text written in the Yựtyựt romanization (which in fact represents the tone using diacritics for the corresponding Sino-Viet versions that I had just described above) is the article 1 of UDHR. One interesting aspect of the romanization is that the creator decided to represent the alveolopalatal sibilants ("zh, ch, sh" for /tɕ tɕʰ ɕ/, corresponding with Mandarin's retroflexes) which had since merged with the alveolar "z, c, s" a century ago.
Vietnam borrow a lot of Cantonese pronunciation like 利市 li xì which is commonly use or there is word like 同花順 thung pha sanh. I think they are close geographically so Vietnamese just borrow off Cantonese specifically
We-vietnamese the old Bach Viet people, we have 4000 years history from the Southest Chinaland today, we did have peaceful life but sudddenly the Hans has completely suffering Bach Viet and then we were in controled 1000 years, we rise again but how sadly some brothers Bach Viet in southest chinaland still under controled by Hans, and they have been assimilated for too long. Thats why those chinese people in the southest like Guangdong, Guangxi,... have the same genes as Vietnamese people, so you know what history have happend, and we ancient's voice still pass down today.
As a Cantonese speaker I resonate with what you said, I also feel like our province is a result of northern Han Chinese conquest that assimilated us into "Chinese people". But I wish that my province could become independent from China one day -- as the country of Cantonia (粵國)
@@latsatmiqk2391yeah, like we still are the brothers. But it's doesn't mean we could reunite again, some people vietnamese and chinese in the border the North Vietnamese people and Guangxi people have a friendly relationship each others. But the political relations between Vetnam and China are getting bad.
@@thienstickman2318 unfortunately not, and I don't blame the Vietnamese for being defensive towards China. I just wish our province could become independent from China, where we could then all resist the northern Chinese together
Not only Cantonese is spoken in the province of Gwong Dong, but also in Hong Kong, Macau and other countries overseas as well where people had immigrated to.
1 thing i like about my language Vietnamese is that we don't have to pay attention to tense of the sentence (that's why you can notice many Vietnamese having the mistake of not using correct English grammar when it is related to tense - using was/were/ had/been, ..... ) Because in my country, for example, you talk about something happen in the past, the grammar is just stay the same and we just have to include words that make people understand that it was the past (for example: hôm qua (yesterday) ; lúc đó (that time); hồi xưa (back when ...); ... In short, we don't have to use was/were ; converting verb into -ed and stuffs and that is why you can easily notice that mistake when any Vietnamese talk in English
You should have also put Korean together. As a speaker of both cantonese and Vietnamese and native Korean, It’s obvious that those three are the closest in terms of vocabulary and their respective pronunciation. By far closer than compared to Japanese.
As a hokkian , I dont like to admit coz I dislike korean , basically because of korean racist, but chinese dialect that closest to korean language is hokkian…
I'm a mandarin native speaker, I have been learning Vietnamese language for more than 5 years, the grammar between Mandarin and Vietnamese has got some similar place but also are very different to each other, the longer the sentence is，the harder for Mandarin native speaker to understand , Cantonese is more easy to understand the mean.
Mandarin and viet do share some similar pronunciation but I would say compare to other Chinese language mandarin would Be less similar however there are some.
Yes we share some similar pronunciation based on the same words made of the same Chinese character as well as in Japanese and Korean languages.@@YorgosL1
I have to corrrect the sinoVietnamese words accounts for over 38% of vocabulary only, this is based on a recent doctorate study of a Chinese researcher.
The people of Guangdong and Guangxi 4000 years ago the lands of the Vietnamese people. It is not the entire Vietnamese people today but it is a part of Northern Vietnam. They were assimilated and accepted by the Han people. Han is the father. That is one thing that confirms that Vietnam will always fight with China to maintain the current Vietnamese race.
I am from Hong Kong and living in Vietnam for 2 years. I studied Vietnamese for a year now. I do feel the languages are closed and quite easy for me to pick up Vietnamese especially on speaking and listening.
Bạn nói đúng , tui là người Quảng đông sống ở tphcm , rất nhiều từ đều vây mượn từ tiếng Quảng đông như từ xá xíu ( 叉燒 ) tiếng việt không có nghĩa người ta hiểu theo tiếng Quảng đông là thịt xiên nướng
i think your videos will benefit a lot if you slowed down a bit by adding examples when you talk about the linguistic differences. Im a cantonese speaker and i still had problem following your video
Half Cantonese here. My mom is Cantonese, dad is American. But my mom was born in Vietnam and grew up there for about 9 years. Her family fled the country to go to America a few years after Saigon fell. I am trying to learn more about how my mom's family ended up in Vietnam
Overall, well done. You have put a lot of thought into your analysis. The Vietnamese that I was taught over 50 years ago maybe different in some areas than the current system. At around the 12:16 mark, you referenced the chopsticks as “cap dua” whereas I am used to the phrase “doi dua”. I believe when referencing animate vs. inanimate objects, terms are different. Is this a regional thing or has terminologies changed over the years? Thoughts, anyone?
Doi dua is still used today. Actually very common way to say it in Hue and the north. The internet can post anything. Just because it’s online it doesn’t mean it’s true.
Tôi đọc nhiều bình luận của các bạn Trung Quốc trên này thấy nhiều người nghĩ người Việt Nam thích có cùng gốc gác với người Quảng Đông lắm nhỉ. Thực tế là ở Việt Nam rất bài Trung Quốc, nên đừng có nói là đồng bào hay gốc gác gì, những gì dính líu đến Trung Quốc liên quan đến vấn đề dân tộc là ghét hết. Đến cả trong bài Bình Ngô Đại Cáo có nhắc câu" Từ Triệu, Đinh, Lý Trần bao đời gây nền độc lập. Cùng Hán, Đường, Tống, Minh mỗi bên xưng đế một phương" thì " Triệu" ở đây là Triệu Đà được bao đời phong kiến VN xác định là vị Vua của nước mình. Nhưng đến hiện tại thì Triệu Đà được xác định như một tên vua của nước địch( đơn giản vì có gốc gác là người Hán, làm quan thời Tần).
Cái này phải xem lại sử Xuân Thu Chiến Quốc với Đông Chu Liệt quốc.... thời này người Hán bắt đầu đi cư xuống phía nam... Lịch Sử Việt vương Câu Tiễn sống ở phía Nam Thượng Hải là người chống nhà Hán khi nước họ ở gần các quốc gia người Hán nhất.... thời này trùng với thời sự tích 18 đời vua Hùng ở Việt Nam... Nói đơn giản Vua Hùng Việt Nam và Câu Tiễn ở thượng Hải là anh em dòng họ 😂
I studied 5 years of Cantonese and 1 period of Vietnamese a day for 5 years , started to relearn Vietnamese in 2024 ,plan to use my Vietnamese next year when I visit Vietnam, it’s good to have challenges 👍
Yes, vietnamese language is quite similar to cantonese. You guys have shared ancestry and that ancestry can be found in Guangdong and guangxi provinces mainly. You guys can come back any time and enjoy all the benefits and privileges of a civilized citizen of the 21st century Middle Kingdom.
My family is Chinese from Vietnam. My Mom studied East Asian History and speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, Tieu Jiu, Vietnamese and English fluently. She also studied both Chinese KanZi and Vietnamese while growing up there and taught me a lot of the history as an American. The reason why Vietnamese is so similar to Cantonese is because the biggest migration to Vietnam hundreds of years ago if not thousands of years ago were Cantonese, then Tieu Jiu and some Hokkianese and Hakka people from China. The literature was brought to Vietnam. Vietnamese language and writing use to be based on traditional Chinese characters until the French colonization that changed their writing to romanized letters. However, the Vietnamese language itself is mainly derived from Chinese characters. The last names are all Chinese translated into Vietnamese. Originally they did not have last names and followed the names from the mixing with the Chinese. It’s difficult to find a pure Vietnamese person not related to some Chinese ancestry. Many over several generations don’t claim they are Chinese or mixed because of discrimination. However, more than 90% are mixed with Chinese blood if not mainly Chinese but born and raised in Vietnam. My Dad’s family had been in Vietnam for over 200 years. They only speak Vietnamese and call themselves Vietnamese, but our family history scroll clearly shows we’re Chinese with very minimal mixing (I’m less than 1/16th of Vietnamese). The clothes of Vietnamese people actually is from a small tribe in south China from hundreds if not thousands of years ago. It was shown through the Taiwanese news years back interviewing the Chinese tribe that was happy to see Vietnam continue on their traditional clothes that they no longer wear. Even the Vietnamese culture, customs, traditions and cuisine is heavily derived from the Chinese, particularly the Cantonese. This is why the Vietnamese are more like the Canton (Guang Dong) people than northern China people are to the Canton people. My wife is Vietnamese American and I always joke with her what “Banh Pia” is. She has no idea what “Pia” meant in Vietnamese. The reason is because that pastry is a Tieu Jiu pastry. They just use the “Pia” in my Chinese dialect to tag to “Banh”. Both actually mean cake/pastry. So the Vietnamese people are calling a Chinese pastry “cake cake” in two languages. When we look at history and anthropology across Asians, we are all truly very similar in many ways and should appreciate one another. Our heritage are likely linked somehow and some way.
Gen của người Việt khá giống với người Thái Lan. Điên hay sao kêu Việt Nam và Trung Quốc gen giống nhau. Ngoại hình,tính cách,khuôn mặt,ngôn ngữ khác nhau 1 trời 1 vực vậy mà đi so với nhau. Việt Nam chúng tao thà có gen của người châu phi còn hơn có gen của người Trung Quốc mắt hí xếch,bẩn tính,thâm độc..
I think you mean the ◌̚ (upper-right corner diacritic), which indicates a stop with no audible release, also known as an unreleased stop or an applosive, e.g. [p̚], [t̚], [k̚]. How I had this idea explained to me is that imagine you're pronouncing the word "cap", but before your lips open up to let the air out for the /p/ sound at the end, your lips and just freeze there and never open to let the air out. That's what [p̚] sounds like. Same with [t̚] and [k̚] where once either the tip or the back of your tongue respectively hits the roof of your mouth, it just freezes there like there's glue and you never let the air out at the end. It will feel very unnatural if you speak a language where every final consonant sound has to be released, but with enough practice, you'll be able to do it just like any other sound.
Cantonese speaker here - I played lunchtime soccer on a daily basis with some Vietnamese friends. To me, Vietnamese sounds like jumbled Cantonese played backwards on an audio program. They’re clearly using the same sounds, but I just couldn’t make it out like I’m too far away or trying to hear them in a busy cha chaan teng restaurant. Never got round to asking my viet friends if they think Cantonese sounds like backwards Vietnamese.
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
As someone who speaks Cantonese as a non-native, I think these two languages have very similar phonology, and I wouldn't have told them apart had I not learned to speak Cantonese.
@@Perry15 The "Chinese part" means the Middle Chinese which certainly precedes Cantonese. You know that 60% of Vietnamese vocabulary is Sino-Vietnamese words? Wonder where the "sino" part come from? It comes from the Middle Chinese. The Middle Chinese precedes both Vietnamese and Cantonese. The difference is that Cantonese is a descendent of the Middle Chinese while Vietnanmese simply has loan words from Chinese.
@@DD-qf1xt there was no such thing as "China" as it's a fairly new term to indicate a nationally. The people that speak Cantonese were not Han. They were collectively a Yue group that became assimilated, and their vocabulary is more closely related to the language of the people from the north. If you look at their genome, they're more closely related to the northern Vietnamese than to their northern countrymen.
@@Perry15 Lol I was talking about the Chinese language why do you bring up '''China" as a nationality? The only thing similar between Cantonese and Vietnamese language is vocabulary, which is from the Middle Chinese and has nothing to do with Yue or whatever. The genome also does not support a relationship between Cantonese and Vietnamese. Go and find Vinmec's Vietnamese Genome Research Project, then compare it with the Cantonese genome, they are not close at all. Genetically speaking Thai is the closest to Vietnamese.
The same with Korean, Japanese, these 4 languages are all influenced by Chinese so many words have similar pronounciation, interesting but not special.
Yue means Viet. At some angles, you can say Cantonese got influence from Vietnamese language, since at one time, both Guangdong and Guangxi provinces belonged to Vietnam. As you already know, Cantonese is the language in those two provinces.
@@quayhho6182 Of course they are Vietnamese, at least Vietnamese people still control their own country, unlike Hong Kong people who have to speak two more languages: Yue (粤) and Mandarin (满大人). all southern Hua groups have always been assimilated by northerners (Huaxia, Mongol, Manchus, etc), and have never been able to form their own nations, still today speaking two languages
Yue are not Chinese, even a few are part nowadays China. They called us YUENAN which means Southern Viet. There were a few Yue groups such southern/Eastern Yue back to the day it's like inner Mongolia and Mongolia, Mongol are not Chin or Qin. Guangzhou was part of Yue, not Han that's why people speak Yue and later became Cantonese
There are no more pure Yue in today's Quang Dong Vietnamese Kinh are the only rightful heirs of Nam Viet. Cantonese speakers are majority descended from Tang dynasty refugees who were pushed out of northern China by steppe nomads, escaping into former Nam Viet territory. What is Quảng Dong today was once inhabited by Kra-Dai speakers. This is why Cantonese use Tongjan 唐人 as an endonym because they revere the Tang as the greatest dynasty. This is in contrast to other Chinese that prefer to name themselves after the Han dynasty 漢 or pre-dynastic Hua 華. Cantonese language is Sino-Tibetan with an Kra-Dai substratum retaining more archaic pronunciations compared to other Chinese. Vietnamese language is Austroasiatic with a Sino-Tibetan superstrarum where the loanwords and pronunciations borrowed at a similar archaic stage of Chinese.
Although goodbye is often translated as tạm biệt, it is never used in a conversation. Typically we use "bye" or chào + pronoun. Tạm biệt is typically found in literature only. Like for example, bye anh or chào anh.
Cantonese have retain the ancient Chinese ending of P-T-K-M which is no longer have in mandarin. Also the start sound of NG which still kept throughout Cantonese and Vietnamese have all of those features. Hence the similarities will be much closer than mandarin. Cantonese as a Chinese language resemble Hakka, taishanese , Hokkien more than mandarin which is in the far north while canto is a southern language and border closer to other South East Asia such as Thai / japanese etc.
Imagine that Vietnamese is a combination affected by Cantonese and French, or Latin. Vietnamese expresses the words in writing in Alphabet and it's pronounced like Cantonese.
So one thing that's wrong about the video is that our modern Latin alphabet did not come from colonialism. Western Jesuits came as soon as 1533 and they realised that almost all common folks were illiterate so they wanted to make a writing system easier for the people so that they could preach with ease. The ones popularised the new system were Viets, not some colonialist pricks. Vietnamese writing system is hugely influenced by Portuguese and Italian than French. We use the "nh" in Portuguese and the "gi" in Italian. This concept is also represented in the Vietnamisation of Saints' name. We have Gio-an for John from Giovanni or Gian in Italian, Phê rô for Peter from Pedro in Portuguese or Phao-lô from Paolo
@@Mars-d9m You are absolutely right. "Francisco de Pina (1585 - 1625) was a Portuguese Jesuit interpreter, missionary and priest, credited with creating the first Latinized script of the Vietnamese language, which the modern Vietnamese alphabet is based on."
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italki has 150+ languages listed, but not all of them have people teaching them, e.g. Miyako has 0 teachers
@@vampyricon7026 it seems you didn’t quite understand what I said. I mean that I cannot pay for italki from where I leave. I wonder if this is some kind of trolling or you really misunderstood
@@pistrov8150 Not everything is about you.
@@vampyricon7026 oh right, I didn’t see I was not tagged, now I’m a little embarrassed
There are historical and cultural links between Cantonese and Vietnamese due to their shared geography, ancient migrations, and the influence of the Baiyue peoples, as well as the extensive interaction between southern China and northern Vietnam. Here’s a detailed overview of the relationship:
1. Shared Baiyue Heritage
Both the Cantonese-speaking regions (primarily in Guangdong and Guangxi) and the areas of modern northern Vietnam were historically part of the lands inhabited by the Baiyue people. The Baiyue were an umbrella group of non-Han ethnic tribes who lived in southern China and northern Vietnam, sharing cultural and linguistic similarities.
The Yue (越) in Cantonese refers to the historical Baiyue people, while in Vietnam, the Viet (越 in Vietnamese, also referring to the Baiyue) plays a key part in the name Vietnam (Việt Nam 越南).
2. Chinese Imperial Influence on Vietnam
Northern Vietnam was under direct Chinese rule for nearly a thousand years, from the Han Dynasty (around 111 BCE) to the end of the Tang Dynasty in the 10th century. During this period, Chinese culture, Confucianism, administrative practices, and language influenced the development of Vietnamese society and language.
Chinese domination introduced a large number of Chinese loanwords into the Vietnamese language, particularly in government, philosophy, science, and culture. Although Vietnamese is an Austroasiatic language, a significant part of its vocabulary-especially Sino-Vietnamese words-comes from Chinese.
The Cantonese dialect developed in southern China, where these historical Baiyue groups lived, and would have had cultural overlap with what is now northern Vietnam during this time.
3. Nanyue Kingdom (南越國)
The ancient Nanyue Kingdom (204-111 BCE) was an important political entity that bridged southern China and northern Vietnam. The kingdom included parts of modern Guangdong, Guangxi, and northern Vietnam. Its founding ruler, Zhao Tuo, was a Chinese general who established an independent state after the fall of the Qin Dynasty.
Nanyue represents a period where the southern Chinese (including Cantonese-speaking areas) and northern Vietnamese were part of a common political entity, facilitating cultural and linguistic exchanges.
4. Cantonese and Vietnamese Language Similarities
While Cantonese (a Sino-Tibetan language) and Vietnamese (an Austroasiatic language) belong to different language families, there are some connections:
Both languages have borrowed a significant number of words from Classical Chinese, which was the language of administration and culture for centuries.
Vietnamese and Cantonese retain many similar Chinese loanwords in their vocabulary due to historical influence, particularly in formal and academic language.
Both languages are tonal, meaning they use pitch to distinguish word meaning, though the number of tones and the specific tone systems differ.
5. Post-Chinese Rule
After the end of direct Chinese rule in the 10th century, Vietnam developed a more distinct national identity, though Chinese cultural influence remained significant.
The Cantonese-speaking regions, on the other hand, remained under Chinese control, developing within the broader Chinese cultural and linguistic framework.
Summary
Cantonese and Vietnamese have historical links through their shared Baiyue heritage and cultural interaction, particularly during the periods when northern Vietnam was under Chinese control.
The Nanyue Kingdom and the long period of Chinese rule in northern Vietnam facilitated the exchange of culture, language, and administration between the two regions.
Although the two languages are from different linguistic families, both have been deeply influenced by Classical Chinese, sharing a significant number of Sino-derived vocabulary and cultural similarities.
i was recently talking to a friend about some similarities between cantonese and japanese meanings/pronunciations ( “無問題” (no problem) sounding like "mou man tai" and "mu mon dai" + "電話“ (phone) sounding like "din waa" vs "den wa" respectively, iirc) so it was exciting to find out similarities between cantonese and other languages too! learning about linguistics have always scratched a particular itch in my brain and i really enjoyed this video, especially as a cantonese speaker :DD
it gets even weirder with the similarities between Taiwanese Hokkien and Japanese thanks to colonialism
You should look up "Wasei Kango" 和製漢語. Many modern words in Chinese languages, Vietnamese and Korean were actually created in Japan using Chinese as a basis.
楚如此暴力
@@mybutthasteeth1347 Taiwanese Hokkien or just Hokkien in general shares a lot of similarities with the Japanese language and it's not because of Japanese colonialism but more towards borrowed vocabularies from mainland China to Japan during the ancient middle ages period
@@HaothemanMainly during the Tang dynasty.
The Vietnamese negator không is actually sino-vietnamese word 空 (with the meaning of "empty", not "sky").
Hence the meaning of the number zero as không because zero is "empty" ("a place holder" in mathematical terms), the sky is never empty (For Abrahamic "religions", there's a "Father in Heaven" & for Buddhists, Taoists and Hindus, there's all sorts of Deities. There's also Asgard & Valhalla, Thor, Loki and the Valkyries, etc... in Norwegian/Scandinavian mythology and Hercules, Zeus, Hera, Gaea, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Persephone, Hades, etc... in ancient Greek mythology. The Romans don't have mythology, they only copied from Greek mythology, and changed all the names so now Aphrodite becomes Venus and Eros becomes Cupid.)
I think it might be more prudent not to say that so definitively. I know the sino-vietnamese noun "không" is sino-vietnamse 空. But the adverb "không", being the main negator the language, I'm not sure. Did ancient Vietnamese change their negator to "không - 空" (from "chẳng", "chả", maybe) post-sinicization? Or even ancient Vietnamese used different method for negation (without a negating word like "không")? Or it was a case of false friend like Vietnamese "chào" and Italian "ciao", and the noun "không" and the adverb "không" are actually from different origins? Sadly study of etymology is basically non-existent for Vietnamese.
@@tuanld91Nếu đọc sách Nôm, chúng mình thấy rất là nhiều chữ ko dùng nữa như ngày xưa. Có chữ giống "chưng -> ở", "chăng -> không", "ghín -> cẩn thận", "giá -> lạnh", "trốc -> đầu", "nừng -> một chút", "tác -> tuổi", "mắng -> nghe", v.v.
“Không” is a homophones.
Noun “không” meaning “không/空/empty space or number zero”,
negator “Không” serves the purpose in a negative sentence that refer to the non-occurrence of an action or the absence of a quality; such as “bất/不” or “một/mốt/没” in sino-vietnamese.
It sounds the same but not necessary the same word or character in ancient times. Moreover, old Viet people also used “chữ nôm/南字” some were phonetically formed with the existing (Han) sino-characters/漢字, so might this menthod were adopted with the Romanticized characters later, “they write what they speak”.
@@tuanld91The fact that "chẳng" has survived in some uses into the modern era, and that it used to be used for more cases of "không" suggests to me that "không" as a negator displaced "chẳng" since Middle Vietnamese (the time of chữ nôm). Meanwhile, the word "không" was present as a Chinese character reading since Vietnamese independence around 1000 CE. So maybe the Chinese loanword "không" gained "zero" and "not" as extra meanings and became the main word for them in Modern Vietnamese (since 1600).
Unless someone can provide an alternative explanation.
In my experience in Hong Kong, Vietnamese pick up Cantonese extremely easily, like it's not even an effort. The only thing they struggle with is the writing system.
On the flip side, Koreans learn Mandarin very quickly, particularly in terms of pronunciation. A few Koreans I've met can pronounce Mandarin even better than the average native Cantonese speaker.
Do Koreans also struggle with the Chinese writing system? They don't use Chinese characters anymore, just like the Vietnamese.
@@CookieFonster Chinese characters are used more frequently in South Korea than people realize. Anyone over the age of 50 will recognize at least a few hundred, if not a thousand characters, mostly place name and personal names. The younger generations will recognize substantially fewer, but still at round 100 or more.
@@user-j2w3yL9mj Many of the Vietnamese refugees were Cantonese to begin with. For example, the surname Troung is often the Vietnamese spelling of Chong.
@@Obscuraiit’s actually Trương or Zhang/Cheung. Indeed many Viet refugees were actually Chinese descendants. However, native Viets can pick up Cantonese easily because both languages share similarities
@@MinhNguyen-ff6xf Yes, that would be the Hoa people that fled in 1975.
To be honest as a native Cantonese speaker I feel more connected to the Vietnamese than to those northern Mandarin Chinese people.
Because Cantonese and Vietnamese are genetically the same people, but sinicized to different extents.
@@BieZhang Cantonese people have natural double eyelids like Vietnamese people, while Northern Chinese people have single eyelids. Regarding genes, Guangdong and Guangxi people have genes very similar to Vietnamese people and completely different from Northern Chinese people.
好惡心，別來蹭我們廣東人，你們越南人嫌貧愛富的嘴臉真可恥。和你們越南接壤的廣西怎麽不見你們去蹭@@nguyenhieu1687
別裝廣東人了你這只馬騮，來廣東大街上做個街坊采訪試試
@@oou8269 黐撚線嘅你。我觀點同你嘅唔一樣就話我唔係廣東人。
Actually, some speakers, especially in the rural area of Northern Vietnamese that have a /n/->/l/ shift just like in informal Cantonese. But it's considered as "nói ngọng" aka "improper speaking" rather than a linguistic or dialectal features.
100% of people living in Southern viet nam noi ngong and their acent very heavy because they are originally from Cambodia, people living the north are chinese influence and they learn chinese very fast and people living in Southern Vietnam they can learn khmer campuchia language very fast because they ancestors are khmer mien campucac
Vùng từ Thanh Hoá đến Quảng Ngãi có thể là tàn dư gốc gác ChamPa (từ địa phương : Mô tê răng rứa chỉ có ở vùng này )( Đặc biệt Quảng Bình đến Huế có thời kỳ mấy trăm năm tách hẳn khỏi miền Bắc VN và miền Nam : Vương Quốc Lâm Ấp) . Miền Nam thì phức tạp hơn (nhiều luồng di cư + bản địa). Miền Bắc ,đặc biệt vùng đồng bằng có lẽ chính là vùng bị Hán hóa nhất (hoặc là vùng đất của người Việt cổ nhưng bị ảnh hưởng từ sự cai trị phương Bắc)
Đừng nghĩ người ChamPa chỉ còn thiểu số mà nghĩ nó bị tuyệt diệt( khi chúa Nguyễn Hoàng vào khu vực Thuận Hoá đã có lượng lớn người bản địa tại đó( mà nhưng người bản địa này không hẳn là người di cư từ nơi khác đến, mà có lẽ họ chính là tàn dư người ChamPa còn bám trụ quê hương họ )
@@nofear1496 nhầm hơi to. Vùng Thanh Nghệ Tĩnh mới là đất tổ của người Việt - Mường. Mô tê răng rứa là một lớp trầm tích của tiếng Việt cổ chứ không phải Champa.
@@namkybucacnamkybucac Nói lảm nhảm gì vậy thằng bac cầy ăn lựu đạn?
10:32 Cantonese also has this classifier-noun structure to denote definiteness, especially in the subject position
11:59 this is likely an areal feature of Southeastern Asia because other languages in the area also use this structure to form comparisons, (the word 過 even sound similar to those of some Tai-Kadai languages)
11:59 I also notice this while listening. In Thai, we use kwa1 (กว่า). VN word structure is easy for most Thai 95% identical. The hard part is vocab that they borrow from Cantonese. According to my little Teochew & French background, I can recognize some Teochew words like hiểu & ga (gare - in French). This help me sometime but not much.
My VN gf can speak Thai fluently with basic Thai words. If it's our basic Tai-Kadai vocab, she can grab it fast. But hardly to understand when our loan words from Sanskrit/Pali comes to play.
As a speaker of Mandarin, Taiwanese Hokkien, and Hakka, the ɐ/aː distinction in Cantonese confused me a lot, it felt even counter-intuitive sometimes. It was only as I started learning Vietnamese that it hit me that I can just treat them as long-short pair at first and then work on their nuances later
but then you also have /ă/, the true short version of /a/ as opposed to /â/
2:43 A fact for you: Chinese language has also been influenced by Vietnamese, too.
@@haduong96353a can you show some examples?
Then you can practically learn Teochew as it's very close to Hokkien.
@@haduong96353aNorthern Vietnam was annexed by a Chinese General. As China kingdoms were fighting each other to gain more power and land.
The General with his soldiers were loosing land and retreated back south and establish his new kingdom (The Yue Kingdom).
It was more than 1000 years in chinese reign over this region bringing and excercise their culture and customs.
There you have it!
That's why cantonese language sounds similar to Vietnamese language.
Do you know how many chinese dialects are out there? I think the really sounds similar to each other and not to mention the customs? If you would understand the Chinese language as a whole you will see the close connection. For example the meaning of the word: "address"
Is there a meaning of the word in the Vietnamese language? In Cantonese-Chinese it means literally "earth and place".
Does it mean it in the Vietnamese language too?
Many , many chinese words are like that. And it sounds more similar to Mandarin Chinese.
Do your research and you will find out your history.
I think the (Vietnamese pronunciation: chuẩn bị = to prepare / be ready) has drifted closer to the (Japanese pronunciation: 準備 Junbi = preparation / ready)
it's also closer to Korean 준비 Junbi
Chaoshan also say tsung(zung) bi
So almost all Asian language share the same for ‘prepare’
@@YorgosL1 All of the languages above are famous for borrowing Chinese words from the past but not all of Asia are like that.
@@IronKurone well I know Thai is too
the word for to prepare is also similar in Korean and Japanese. As someone who grew up in a Canto-Viet household who speaks both rather poorly I always had issues with "to prepare" never understand the translation my mom would try to give. But when I learned some Korean, I realised they're all the same haha
Yes, some years ago I worked with Korean I heard the Korean said "prepare" like Vietnamese say "chuẩn bị" similar 90%. I am Vietnamese.
@@Ice-Black-Coffee Japanese is Jun bi and Korean is jun bi. Not Chuanbi nonsense
@@profile1565she said it was similar sounding not that it was chuan bi in Korean
It's interesting because "to prepare" is also the same in Mandarin (Zhǔnbèi), Korean (junbi) and Japanese (junbi). While most modern words are completely different, it's interesting that a few words are clearly the same with a few tonal/pronunciation differences.
A fact for you: Chinese language has also been influenced by Vietnamese, too.
Cantonese Zeon Bei for prepare is pronounce in complete different tones to mandarin one.
@@haduong96353a bro stop spamming
you way too sensitive, chill vietcong@@haduong96353a
zunbi 闽南语
For those wondering the text in the yựt yựt example is the following in written Cantonese: 人人生出嚟就係自由嘅，喺尊嚴同權利上一律平等。佢哋具有理性同良心，而且應該用兄弟間嘅關係嚟互相對待。 which is Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Thanks for that, as someone who speaks Cantonese and has Vietnamese heritage that passage was mind melting to read!
I was so surprised to see Yựt Yựt mentioned because I knew the guy who created it. He's a Greek-German mathematician/linguist with the tag Sky Darmos. I knew him through his desire to learn more about Chữ Nôm which was the old Vietnamese writing system based on Chinese characters.
NO. Stop nonsense. Stop dreaming. Vietnamese heritage has NOTHiNG related to Cantonese. Only after entire vietnam country watched a lot of Hong Kong dramas, Vietnamese people start to imitate Cantonese heritage.
Vietnamese people are southeast Asian. Cantonese people are NOT southeast Asian.
@@haniahannslew4108 I mean nothing like a little bit of despising the Chinese government to bring people closer together. I can see why especially some Hong Kongers look for other possible roots for their identity given recent history.
@@haniahannslew4108 I think it's just a linguistic game, calm down. We don't want to be related to chinese either.
7:46 i do want to add in this one it does happen in north Vietnamese too, N shift to L is common in informal Northern Vietnamese and funny enough N shift back to L as well 😂.
haha...so true
Ví dụ, Hà Lội, lăm mươi nhăm, v.v.
@@nomnadayBạn nhầm rồi, nó chỉ xảy ra ở 1 số tỉnh, 1 số huyện của miền bắc thôi, nó k chiếm đa số. Có thể bạn là người miền nam nên bạn không đi nhiều tỉnh miền bắc nên bạn không rõ. Hà Nội trước khi sáp nhập Hà Tây thì không ngọng giữa N và L, người Hà Tây mới ngọng L và N.
The conversion of N to L in the North only takes place in some districts and some Northern provinces and is not the majority.
@@nguyenhieu1687 mình từ Ninh Bình, biết mấy người còn nói như thế.
seeing a non-native nailing "ngã" and "nặng" is such a delight
oh and you made a tiny mistake at 12:16 , it's "được", not "dược"
Haha, it happens when they only use vocal cord. To say ngã”, “nặng” correctly, they should use some belly muscle too
as a native Vietnamese speaker, this video gave me a serious headache and I took a full 2 hours to think about my language again, cause this is not what I though for the whole life about our country's language, it's so complicated and far far away than what we studied about Vietnamese, I always confused when someone say "Vietnamese is extremely hard" and now I understand why :_)))
yes
@@an-rua5847 gặp nữa😅
Vietnamese language is NOT similar to Cantonese, but Vietnamese language is more similar to Mandarin. For example, Here are the list of Mandarin similar to Vietnamese language.
究 jiu = cíu
江 jiang = giang
开 kai = khai
酒 jiu = zịu
水 shui = thủy
客 khe/ke /khuh= khách
斷 Duàn = đoạn
國徽 Guóhuī = Quốc huy
發揮 Fāhuī = phát huy
災難 Zainan = tai nạn
事故 shigu = sự cố
苦 ku = khổ
艱難 Jiānnán = gian nan
流 Liu = liu
口 Kǒu = khẩu
保安 Bǎo'ān = bảo an
萬 Wàn = vạn
層 Céng = tầng
事 Shì = sự
量 Liàng = lượng
花 Huā = hoa
貨 Huò = hoá
臟 Zàng = tạng
發揮 Fāhuī = phát huy
沿海 Yánhǎi = duyên hải
生才 Shēng cái = sinh tài
@@haniahannslew4108 Lol wthell is "cíu", "zịu"?
@@heian17its a nonsense word
chuan bi in vietnamese sound like 준비 in korean which also means “prepare”..interesting!
Same with Japanese because they all borrowed/evolved from Middle Chinese
Nice video! Isn't the Việt (越) in Việt Nam (越南) related to the word Yue (粵)? They are both pronounced the same in many different Chinese languages
Yes it is! The region of Guangdong used to be part of what China called Yue, inhabited by the Bai Yue (hundred Yue tribes). After the Chinese conquered part of the region, the rulers there decided to break off from China and formed Nan Yue, or southern Yue. They then expanded into northern Vietnam, bringing the name with them. Nan Yue, or Vietnam, then lost the holdings within China, being left with northern Vietnam.
In fact, both 越 and 粵 are pronounced the same in Sino-Vietnamese.
@@TrueSchwarActually Yue people were living in nowadays Guangdong, part of Fujian and Northern Vietnam. Theses regions belonged to the same country called Nan Yue.
"Việt" is literally read as Yue so yea
@@TrueSchwarthat's a modern myth, the Zhuang of Guangxi also claim the exact same origins as the Vietnamese but both Guangxi and Vietnam were sinicised during the Han and later periods. Zhejiang also still calls itself "Việt" and even Fujian claims to descend from the ancient Yue. In reality it was a classifier to denote people South of China (which at the time is only what is now central northern China), this is also why Tai speaking people and Vietic speaking people can both claim to be the Au Lac because this connection was invented by later historians creating an ethnogenesis.
Had Guangdong been an independent country it would have a national myth identical to Vietnam.
Vietnam doesn't border Guangdong/Cantonese, but Guangxi Zhuang ethnic province which speak Zhuang language. The map is false 0:10, Vietnamese and Cantonese languages don't border each other.
The similarity mentioned applies to many tonal languages, such as Thai, Hmong...etc. It's very misleading.
Vietnamese and Cantonese are different in grammar, syntax, & vowel sound which determines pronunciation. Both don't sound the same at all. Only similarity is Chinese loanwords adopted by Vietnamese but based on Viet pronunciation.
Case in point, most Vietnamese grew up watching Hong Kong movie couldn't pick up the language or even pronunciation. In Saigon's Chinatown district 5, those living next to Hoa Chinese community could not either.
You are incorrect: people in Guangxi used to speak Cantonese with Guangxi dialect. People of Zhuang ethnic minority, the biggest ethnic minority, will speak Zhuang. Chinese people will speak either Guangxi dialect, Cantonese (very rare to find someone under age 40 who can speak Cantonese in Guangxi nowadays) or Putonghua, not Zhuang, unless they happened to have learned it, then maybe.
Guangxi speaks Mandarin and Cantonese. The marjority of Guangxi is still Han Chinese, bruh
@@trien30 I stated facts, you're presenting false info. Guangxi is historically Zhuang ethnic that speak Zhuang, a Tai language. Even the Han Chinese in Guangxi don't speak Cantonese which is only spoken in Canton/Guangdong, hence the name Cantonese. And population of Cantonese speaker in Guangxi is less than 10%, mostly new migrants.
@@numerals8939 Historically Guangxi is Zhuang majority, it's full the name is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. Han Chinese only move in during modern times.
Vietnamese don't know anything about China trying to spread false info.
@@numerals8939 Guangxi is historically Zhuang ethnic majority, only speak Zhuang. The full name is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. Han Chinese are modern migrants.
10:50 there are exceptions, some Cantonese words are also of Noun-Adj sequence, for example 雞公 instead of Mandarin 公鸡
That’s one bad example, many mandarin dialects call the exact same thing
It's ok. You can write in Traditional Chinese when talking about Mandarin too, which was the original by the way. Simplified Chinese did not exist in China until 1950s and 60s.
那公安可以写成安公吗？呵呵
Middle Chinese initial consonants 精母, 清母, 從母, 心母, 邪母, 書母, 船母 became /t/ in Vietnamese.
For example
思想
sī xiǎng
si soeng
tư tưởng
首相
shǒu xiàng
sau soeng
thủ tướng
The “an” as in pinyin, transformed into “iên” in Vietnamese, like the word “自然”(zìrán) will be direct pronounced as “tự nhiên”
Something I find quite funny learning Mandarin was the Sino-Vietnamese pronounciation of Chinese-origin words in Vietnamese.
@@thanhdatchu258here you can see 自 in Mandarin is zì, and tự in Vietnamese. 自 is in 從母 in Middle Chinese. initial consonant 從母 became j/q/z/c (pinyin) in Mandarin, and t in vienameae
書, the Sino-Vietnamese word for "book" is 'thu' which starts with th and not t, in Vietnamese, library is 'thu viên' (using 書院, the original ancient Chinese word meaning "a school" or "anything related to academics" is reused in Vietnamese to mean "library/libraries.")
@@thanhdatchu258the -iên was based on Hokkien, Hakka, or Teochew, not reversibly applicable in Pinyin because Pinyin was used to screw up Chinese phonetics via dialects around Beijing only called Putonghua when spoken where Mao also messed up the tones, but it is used in romanizing certain words in Taiwanese Mandarin, AKA Guoyü.
@@thanhdatchu258自然 = chu lian ( Hokkien ) similar than mandarin zi ran
They belong to completely different languages families, the only thing that makes Vietnamese similar to any Chinese language is because they borrowed quite a lot from the Chinese language, like the Korean and Japanese.
yes, thats what he said in the video…
These are actual cognates, so Vietnamese did not borrow. Vietnamese originally spoke Annamese Chinese.
They are not completely different languages. During the Han dynasty, Gunagdong, Guangxi and Hanoi were part of the same Annan province. They all share a common Han Annamese language , hence the similarities like no other.
@@hunterl4328Nah, Vietnamese is an Astroasiatic language, which is a cpletely different language family to the Sinitic (Chinese) languages.
You have to remember that before Chinese people and the Chinese state ever arrived in the Vietnamese region, there were already other people living there. And the characteristics of modern day Vietnamese show very clearly that it descended more strongly from the languages spoken by those people before the Chinese arrived.
Before Emperor Han Wudi's conquest of Vietnam, there were the Baiyue, who in the later years had some mixed ethnic states with significant indigenous and Chinese populations (e.g. Southerm Yue/ Nanyue Kingdom). Before then, there were no Chinese people at all. During this mixed history of Vietnam and subsequent migration and trade, Vietnamese picked up a huge Chinese language influence, but it is still more closely connected to other Astroasiatic languages than it is to any form of Chinese.
A fact for you: Chinese language has also been influenced by Vietnamese, too.
Hello - italki is amazing. I teach English on the platform and I love my Vietnamese and Chinese students and their beautiful accents.
In Thai
3:49
room = ห้อง hong
sack = ไต้ tai (northern dialect)
10:58
continuous particle = อยู่ yu
11:15
future tense verbal particles = จะ ja, สิ si (northeast dialect or Lao), เต te (Shan language)
11:40
book = หนังสือ nang sʉ
12:00
comparative “more than” = กว่า gwa
I found so many similarities in our languages!
i believe the word for "bad luck" - "xui" also sound the same in Thai
@@haibuiphuoc4442 Yeah, bad luck is ซวย (suai) and it’s a Chinese loan word in Thai.
@@haibuiphuoc4442 The word “xui” is a non-Sino-Vietnamese reading of Chinese 衰 “suy”
There're many non Sino-Viet words in Vietnamese that similar to Thai as well:
E.g. Banana: Chuối = กล้วย, Chicken: Gà/Qué = ไก่, Moon: Trăng = จันทร์ etc.
No one cares
Thank you so much for making a video about Cantonese!
0:56 tones are wrong lmao
廣 gwong2 is rising
話 waa6 when used to denote a language is changed to a rising tone waa6-2
also 東 dung1 is pronounced identically to Mandarin pinyin dong1, not the unrounded vowel you used. edit: you also pronounced it with an /-n/ final, which is wrong. You pronounce it right when you say it in the English way, so idk why it's so wrong when you actually tried to read it.
3:46 the speaker (correctly) pronounces 房 with a changed rising tone (tone 2), which is different from the dictionary form fong4. the changed tone is usually indicated as fong4-2. same with 袋 as doi6-2
7:44 the onset /n/ -> /l/ is a weird one. It's simultaneously was prominent that it's very old, but it might be reversing due to news influence. I'm not sure about that one.
8:34 the zi6 in hon3 zi6 漢字 is a pure /i/ vowel, not the almost-Mandarin syllabic thing. Though, I've heard it was historically the syllabic fricative in like the 1800s or something.
11:06 I think you used the wrong syllable, it sounded like you read gon2 instead of gan2 /kɐn³⁵/
12:06 過 gwo3 is mid flat, not rising
The tones are hit and miss in Vietnamese, too, honestly.
@@YorgosL1 got no clue what you're trying to say. Ignore the spelling, they're the same sound. 東 /tʊŋ⁵⁵/. Though, upon second listen he also pronounced the final as /-n/ instead of /-ŋ/, so if that's what you're referring to then yeah.
LingoLizard pronounced it as something like [tɯn] instead of properly [tʊŋ]
@@kori228 no it is not. 東 this is different pronunciation in the 2 language. Same sound does not = same pronunciation
@@YorgosL1 they're pronounced exactly the same. record yourself saying it and show me what you're taking about
@@kori228 I can speak both and recognizes the different. They do not pronounce the same. Like 過 / 明 also sound similar in both language but same sound does not = same pronunciation
Try to pronounce 同 and compare to mandarin. Completely not similar lmao. Unless u like deaf or do not speak proper Cantonese. Just like 東 DUNHG not Don
Cantonese speaker here! To me Vietnamese does sound like Cantonese (because of the tones) but I can't comprehend anything.
Interesting how many cognates there are
same but vietnamese have more nasal sound i guess
If you listen to how Vietnamese sounds like when reading 李白/Lý Bạch or another 唐詩/Đường Thi authors, you will be surprised.
as a Vietnamese speaker, i too find Cantonese sounding familiar yet i cant comprehend Cantonese either
once when i was a kid, i watched a chinese film on HBO Red, and they speaks in a language that i feel familiar but incomprehensible; the experience felt like a fever dream
only later i found that it was in Cantonese
Yes, they all descended from Chinese Yue (Annamese). Way back in the day….
I speak Cantonese and have been to Vietnam multiple times. I don't speak Vietnamese but can still decipher 90% of the paragraphs in Yut Yut even though I have never learnt it. Is there anywhere I can find out more about Yut Yut? Thank you.
I speak Cantonese but I learn the language viet a long time ago. I lived there for a quite amount of time and work there. There is similarities
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
@@YorgosL1 just because you understand Vietnamese language that’s why you find it similar.
There is a really cool fact: in the past the Vietnamese really liked to watch Hong Kong's film, especially when they came from TVB, and listen to Hong Kong's songs too. Maybe the similarity in language between two culture makes the fact
The origin of Vietnamese comes from southern China.
Nowadays people watch Chinese dramas in Mandarin
Thật sự tính cách khá giống nhau... hài hước nhưng có máu anh hùng 😅
@@yours_sincerely48Vietnam origin is baiyue,(Hundred Viet) came from now south china and northern Vietnam
Vậy chúng tối xem phim của Mỹ cũng lấy ngôn ngữ của Mỹ áp dụng cho tiếng nói địa phương của chúng tôi hãy😂😂😂, bạn yên tâm người Việt không muốn giống người Quảng Đông đâu nên khỏi suy luận lung tung.
I happen to speak both Cantonese and Vietnamese and live in California. 2nd Chinese generation in VN and moved to the state a long time ago. I just practice them with friends growing up here in the bay area.
GuangDong belonged to Viet Ancient before Han Dynasty invaded 10.B.C . The voice of GuangDong people and Vietnam people (before 1900s) almost are the same of sound. In modern days, after 1940s, vietnam voice records by new latin characters. Some words are the same of sound, others are differences because China tone voice is only 4 and Viet Ancient tone voices is 6. So, China / Han language cannot completely record Viet Ancient voice and transform language.
As a native Cantonese speaker I don't feel connected to the Vietnamese at all because we don't understand a word of vietnamese. I feel more connected with Mandarin Chinese because Cantonese language and Mandarin have a lot in common.
@@quangvinh1153 Stop giving the wrong information, and disinformation.
Northern vietnam used to be China's territory until the Ngo Dynasty of vietnam invaded and illegally took northern vietnam away from China.
Vietnam is NOT from anciet Nan Yue (or Guangdong) of China.
@@quangvinh1153 Ethnic Kinh of Vietnam originally came from south east asia and concentrated mainly in southern Red River Delta. Vietnam is NOT part of Bai Yue of southern China. Stop trying to relate vietnam with Guangdong. Guangdong of China has NOTHING related to today's vietnam.
As a native Vietnamese speaker, I have never known what "đãy" means until today. Thank you for teaching me something new.
now you learned something new tođãy
As a native Cantonese speaker I don't feel connected to the Vietnamese at all because we don't understand a word of vietnamese. Vietnamese speaking people also don't understand a word Cantonese people speak. I feel more connected with Mandarin Chinese because Cantonese language and Mandarin have a lot in common.
they used to be the same country called namviet which comprises of the cantonese regions and northern vietnam
I''m surprised you didnt cover the usage of nouns as pronouns in Vietnamese. I only have limited knowledge that some SEA languages have this feature and wonder if Cantonese have this too.
I am a Cantonese that been speaking viet for 10 years now and I can agree to some extend that it’s share lot of similar word. Most of HK people do not know it
@@nguyenn99527 their ancestors are not Cambodians. There are probably some mixing here and there but ultimately, they're just the same as nothern Kinh
@@nguyenn99527 haha….your speculation is so wrong.
@@nguyenn99527Southern Vietnamese mixed with Khmer people a little bit when they migrated to the Mekong delta but all Vietnamese have the same root from culture to gene.
越南话有很多汉越词很正常
@@nguyenn99527 Whether the Kinh people (Vietnam) live in the South or the Central region, their ancestors are all migrants from the North (Vietnam). Different dialects are just communication between climate and culture!
As a Cantonese speaker thank you for making this video! I have always been excited to see more content of people comparing Cantonese and Vietnamese as I think we're two people who share one of the most language similarities! A lot of the times, I find that the Sino-Vietnamese words and Cantonese cognate words sound more similar than to Mandarin by a much larger extent.
Cantonese people had to wait until Vietnam to become a developed country to mention this. Before that: go away! We're Chinese!
@vinvin1082 China and Hong kong is not a developed country life in Vietnam way better than China and hong kong ,there a lots homeless people in China and Hong Kong
@@vinvin1082I smell a traitor among us
@@vinvin1082you think you are developed?
@@charliechan900 he said WAIT bruh
Someone already did this video, but this is way more detailed. Congrats
New vid yay!
Found a protondium in the wild.
@@TrueSchwar >:)
I like your Scandinavian/Germanic language video too.
I hope that you can make a seperate video just for Norwegian, Swedish and Danish
Guangdong, Guangxi and Vietnam used to be in the single country name Nanyue Kingdom for almost a century before annexed by Han Empire to be a provincial unit as Jiaozhou.
Việt Nam ngày nay được đổi tên lại , và 1 tỉnh ở việt nam có tên Quảng Nam :))
@@Trucnguyen-yf1ii điên😊
Nanyue was a kingdom setup by Qin general zhaotuo & his 500k soldiers that conquered south China from Qin dynasty in the north. Nanyue eventually fallen & joined Han dynasty. The only link to viets was some of its population was some sinizied newly civilized yue tribes & partial link of the off springs of the Qin soldiers that taken local yue women as their wives. nanyue was one of the small kingdom in China during the han dynasty era. But its the 1st civilized kingdom for mixed & non mix yue population in Southern China at that period of time.
That’s 2000 years ago
@@achtungbaby2009 NANyUE is not small country. Man
Thanks for having subtitles!
Thank you for the detailed analysis
Thanks a lot, or doh zeh / cam on. Very informative!
Another sinitic language that is interesting to compare with Vietnamese is Hokkien. Hokkien also has ending consonants like p, t, k and even h, as well as ng in the end and beginning of words. Hokkien also has the implosive, or as I call it, soft b (ɓ). As well as the equivalent of that but for g (ɠ) and l/d (in Hokkien, the letter L sounds like a mix of d and l). On top of that Hokkien also has a very similar O sound to the Vietnamese Ơ, and a second O sound that sounds kind of like the Vietnamese Ô. And a Z sound similar to the Northern Vietnamese R, written with the letter J in Hokkien.
Hok-kiàn-uē sī tsi̍t khuán tsiok tshù-bī ê gí-giân -ooh.
Yes, not only Hokkien but also Teochew. Because both languages fall under Southern Min branch of Min Chinese. I think it will be great to compare both Hokkien and Teochew with Vietnamese.
Part of Fujian, Guangdong and Northern Vietnam belonged to the same country in the past.
It could explain the similarities.
The similarities between Min and Vietnamese languages may be less than the Cantonese to Vietnamese comparison since Cantonese and Vietnamese have more Yue influences.
All of what is today south China was inhabited by the Baiyue, that's where the similarities come from.
@@thatvietguyonlineIt has nothing to do with Baiyue…so stop being ignorant! First of all, Baiyue is a collective of tribes in the southern China in ancient times, the tribes were different from another from speaking different languages, sharing different cultures and different ethnicities… Người Việt Nam tối ngày nghĩ rằng Bách Việt là một dân tộc nhưng mà không hiểu biết gì hết. Mấy người Lạc Việt ngày xưa ở miền Bắc Việt Nam bây giờ còn tồn tại ở Malaysia, Orang Asli. Người Lạc Việt hồi xưa là gia đen và nâu. Nếu lên RUclips tìm kiếm người dân “Senoi” thấy là người Lạc Việt giống y chang vậy. Con người Mân việt thì qua Đài Loan hoặc Philippines (Cộng thêm người Champa ở Việt Nam) thì sẽ thấy loại người đó mới chính thức là người Mân Việt. Người Mân Việt nói tiếng Austronesian Con người Lạc Việt nói tiếng Áutroasiatic (như tiếng Campuchia). Đừng thành một thằng dốt mà tối ngày nói về dân tộc Việt😂
Kinh Vietnamese are not related to Han Chinese. However, some Southern Chinese are related to Kinh Vietnamese due to common ancestory of Bai Yue/ Bach Viet tribes. Cantonese for example are a mix of Han (Qin Dynasty) and Yue tribes on maternal side.
Guangdong, Guangxi, Hong Kong, Yunnan, Hainan and southern Fujian used to be a part of Vietnam call Nam Việt/ Nan Yue. Interracial mixing and borrowing of languages with each other are bound to happen.
Kinh Vietnamese are admixture of two Bai Yue/ Bach Viet tribes that used to live in Southern China. The Ou Yue/ Au Viet and Luo Yue/ Lac Viet. More likely mix between Tai-Kadai/ Kra-Dai and Austroasiatic speaking people and Chinese migration into North Vietnam due to over 1000 year of Chinese colonization.
The Vietic language which should be seperate from the Austroasiatic family is actually a Creole language a mix between Tai Kadai, Middle Chinese and Austroasiatic.
The Vietnamese language was originally Proto-Viet Muong , Tai speaking people that got mixed together with Annamese which is an ancient Middle Chinese dialect. Which was influence by other Tai-Kadai and Austroasiatic speaking people changing the pronunciations, grammar, tones and vocabularies with loan words.
A very good point and comprehensive explanation. I share similar view with you about the separation of Vietic language.
Although Viet share some features with Khmer language in the Austroasiatic family, but the complexity as whole is pretty different to be grouped with.
Vietnamese originally spoke Annamese Chinese, then when Le Loi became emperor of Vietnam, Muong loanwords started to show up in the Vietnamese language. Because of these small percentage of Muong loanwords, Vietnamese is considered Austroasiatic. As you can see, Vietnamese is not really related to other SE Asian languages as portrayed on social media. Sino Vietnamese still retains 100% cognates with Han Chinese.
Baiyue encompasses many different groups. There were Native yue and Chinese yue, both distinguishable and not related. Similarly there are Native Americans and White Americans, both distinguishable and not related. Tai Kadai( Thai and Lao) and Khmer descended from native yue people, while Vietnamese descended from the Chinese yue. This is one of the reasons Vietnamese do not speak Tai Kadai or celebrate their holidays.
Most people get confused by the two.
That’s because the first generation of Vietnamese Kinh originally spoke Annamese Chinese(Han) then when Le Loi became emperor of Vietnam Muong(Austroasiatic) loanwords started to appear in the Vietnamese language creating a creole. Because of these small percentage of Muong loanwords, people on the internet consider Vietnamese to be a austroasiatic language. As you can see Vietnamese is not really related to other SE Asian languages.
If Vietnamese is a creole of Tai Kadai, Middle Chinese and Austroasiatic, then where did all the Tai Kadai words go?
And how would you classify other Vietic languages, such as Muong, Ruc, Thavung and Arem?
Thanks for this video btw!! Very comprehensive ❤❤😂❤😂
11:53 little nickpicking here
The "Bạn" in the answer in this context is meaning "You" and not "I'm" so it should be "Tôi" (formal) or "Mình" (informal)
There are a lot cantonese in saigon before 1975
Vietnamese & Cantonese language doesn't border each other, the map at 0:10 is wrong. Chinese province that borders Vietnam is Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous province, speak Zhuang language. Cantonese in Guangdong doesn't border Vietnam.
The similarity mentioned in the video apply to many tonal languages too, such as Thai and Hmong. The only common similarity is the adoption of Chinese loanwords. But Vietnamese being Austro-Asiatic has different grammar, syntax and phonology. It actually sounds like Thai, both have same vowel sounds.
Thai borrow Cantonese number pronunciation but use less Chinese than Vietnam
@@Shionshowa Only one number sound similar, Thai language came from Tai in Yunnan China which also influenced Vietnamese, northern most Vietnam provinces are also Tai tribe. The vowel sound of Vietnamese is same as Thai. Chinese influence is in the loanwords.
@@uranus9-nn1tk no. When I learn the Thai number it’s reminded me of Cantonese while Vietnamese have native number but Thai native number is exactly how Chinese is. Some is even similar with Hokkien
Exactly 👍 totally agree. Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
@@jademeyip7836 Vietnamese sounds like Thai, nowhere near Cantonese. Vietnamese and Thai have same vowels sound. Look it up.
Only people who like to claim similarity are Vietnamese, some of whom even claimed to be Chinese 😂
8:39 Ironically you show the page of Truyện Kiều that has no chữ Nôm, but the Classical Chinese preface. The next page has chữ Nôm.
as a vietnamese and cantonese person, I have never seen videos about cantonese/hong kong before.
in my opinion I feel like vietnamese and english are a bit similar.
Every region in China has its own dialect. For example, there are many dialects in a Gansu province in China. They don't understand each other, but they use common Chinese characters. It was not until the founding of New China that the official language, namely Mandarin, began to exist. In ancient times, the Korean Peninsula and Viet Nam were both vassals of China, and even their cultural customs were similar to those of China. Therefore, it is not surprising that there are many China accents on the Korean Peninsula and Viet Nam, but now Chinese characters have been abolished and some Chinese characters are still used in Japan.
这周边几个国家都被昂撒人忽悠瘸了，都不承认自己过去的历史了，无所谓的。都是弹丸小国，世界大战开启后，弹指可灭。
Vietnamese language didn't come out until the French took notice of how illiterate the Vietnamese are. The Vietnamese were practically using Chinese phonetically and they have no written language. Only the royalty, rich, business and monks have education but study under the Chinese school. Common folks (peasants) lack in education. This is the time when the French people colonized Indochina. The Vietnamese as of today is a mix of Chinese, French and etc with emphasize on alphabet with accent a gu. It makes it easier than trying to memorize more than 5000+ hieroglyphics.
@@tr1bes: You are wrong. Before the French colony Vietnam. Or Yue Nam had an actual King. Google Zhou Tou and the 100 tribes. Part of the Canton was part of southern Hans. China had these people and it can be said that they are Chinese in their own rights. Cos their DNA heritage dates back 2000 years in the south of china. Many people inside China today are part of the ottoman empire and silk road but the bai yue people were not. They have ties and links to Qin dynasty. Not Qing. It's Qin. It is wrong to say that they are illiterate cos they have imperial documents to document everything. Imperial annuals existed.
@@tr1besthis is false and i don’t know even know how you can acquire such false information or if you just like to lie
@@StudywithRiley你可以看看法国的殖民你们越南时候的历史书。你也可以去越南看看。
Where did you find yut yut from? I would love for Cantonese to transition to a romanization like Vietnamese. It's hard to want to learn Cantonese and improve it when the writing system is Mandarin
It’s a constructed script based on Vietnamese that was made by a Greek-German mathematician/linguist I’ve chat to before named Sky Darmos.
this is interesting since i’m hong kongese and vietnamese
越南从中国汉朝独立，京族是中国汉朝的移民后代。
@@周军-i4w i never said i speak it, im puerto rican fr
@@周军-i4w 多读点书，什么汉朝，中国势力退出越南是法国殖民越南开始，要怪就怪李鸿章不愿意跟法国打下去
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
So you were descendants of Vietnamese refugees?
I am a Cantonese and my mother tongue is Cantonese. I cannot understand Vietnamese at all. Some words in Vietnamese are the same as those in Chinese. It can only be said that ancient Vietnam was influenced by Chinese culture.
Because Vietnamese and Cantonese share many Old Han words. We call them " Han - Viet " words.
Because there is no relations, but i noticed Vietnamese love to claim Cantonese as their own
It’s nothing alike it’s like duck and chicken speaking to each other.
Người Quảng Đông có phải là người Hán không?
@@MRT-co1sdgiống nhau về từ vựng nếu bạn chịu tìm hiểu sẽ thấy giống, Người Việt chúng tôi cũng không muốn giống Quảng Đông đâu nên bạn yên tâm🤮🤮🤮🤮
There's so much information compacted within 10 minutes of video!
i once ir ead a map of an old vietnamese empire and i legit kid u not vietnam at that time have almost the entire chinese coast like almost to korea
crap I haven’t watched this yet but it’s so nifty seeing this video pop up when just a week or two ago I was reminiscing over learning about how some argue for Cantonese possessing 9 tones rather than 6, there are also some arguments that (Northern) Vietnamese possesses 8 tones and not only 6 (in both cases the discrepancy being due to a combination of select tones being paired with a voiceless ending, somewhat altering the articulation of the tone)
We need more vids like this on RUclips that discuss sprachbund relationships as opposed to the zillions of related language comparisons already out there.
Thanks for uploading!
and a lot of bullshit in this video, unfortunately!
Do one on mandarin and Mongolian. There are a lot more loan words from both
In Southern Vietnamese, there are not only Cantonese language, but also Hokkien and Teochew language. Sometimes I am surprised because the Sino-Vietnamese accent here is older than that of Northern Vietnam, why ?
Viet here, at 3:47 I have never seen or heard the word "đãy" before. "đãy" is a deprecated word, it is not used in everyday conversation and can only be found in certain (legacy) literary contexts. We use the word "túi" for bag.
p/s: I find the word "đãy" very annoying, because it causes confusion with the word "đẫy".
I would like to add on some notes for this video as someone who is familiar with Vietnamese and Cantonese linguistics:
Out of the list of cognates given, the word "tẩy chay" is not Sino-Vietnamese it is a direct loan from Cantonese word. The SV reading would have been "để chế". (A minor note that the Jyutping for "room" and "bag" should be fong2 and doi2; these words have changed tone when used standalone and not in compound words)
In addition to the sound change from /p/ to the implosive /ɓ/, implosive /ɗ/ came from former /t/, which then got reintroduced from former /s/, which also got reintroduced but from former /tʃ/.
Cantonese indeed has no good equivalent of /ɲ/ in Vietnamese. The former went through a sound shift about 200-300 years ago, which merged /ɲ/ with /j/, so any time there's a Sino-Viet word starting with "nh", it will have a /j/ sound in Canto.
In the table of tones for the two languages, I should mention that there is a good (but not perfect) correspondence in tone between Canto and Viet that the video did not depict, and the correspondences are more similar than if you compare either of their tone systems to Mandarin's. If you follow the Vietnamese tone order in the table, the corresponding Cantonese tones should have been 1, 4, 3, 6, 2, 5 (looks rather random but think of the ordering as being 3 pairs of 2 and you can see how makes sense). You will see most of the time that Sino-Viet and Canto tones match one-to-one (although you may see ngang with 4 instead of 1 and hoi with 5 instead of 2 in some cases but that's regular).
To those who don't know, the body of text written in the Yựtyựt romanization (which in fact represents the tone using diacritics for the corresponding Sino-Viet versions that I had just described above) is the article 1 of UDHR. One interesting aspect of the romanization is that the creator decided to represent the alveolopalatal sibilants ("zh, ch, sh" for /tɕ tɕʰ ɕ/, corresponding with Mandarin's retroflexes) which had since merged with the alveolar "z, c, s" a century ago.
Vietnam borrow a lot of Cantonese pronunciation like 利市 li xì which is commonly use or there is word like 同花順 thung pha sanh. I think they are close geographically so Vietnamese just borrow off Cantonese specifically
We-vietnamese the old Bach Viet people, we have 4000 years history from the Southest Chinaland today, we did have peaceful life but sudddenly the Hans has completely suffering Bach Viet and then we were in controled 1000 years, we rise again but how sadly some brothers Bach Viet in southest chinaland still under controled by Hans, and they have been assimilated for too long. Thats why those chinese people in the southest like Guangdong, Guangxi,... have the same genes as Vietnamese people, so you know what history have happend, and we ancient's voice still pass down today.
As a Cantonese speaker I resonate with what you said, I also feel like our province is a result of northern Han Chinese conquest that assimilated us into "Chinese people". But I wish that my province could become independent from China one day -- as the country of Cantonia (粵國)
@@latsatmiqk2391yeah, like we still are the brothers. But it's doesn't mean we could reunite again, some people vietnamese and chinese in the border the North Vietnamese people and Guangxi people have a friendly relationship each others. But the political relations between Vetnam and China are getting bad.
@@latsatmiqk2391在广东推广普通话是给持续了两千年的汉化过程画上句号. 汉化岭南这个千年工程已接近大功告成, 广东在未来的汉化程度会越来越高, 这是千年来的历史大趋势, 你就像你的百越祖先那样, 无力改变这一现实.
@@thienstickman2318 unfortunately not, and I don't blame the Vietnamese for being defensive towards China. I just wish our province could become independent from China, where we could then all resist the northern Chinese together
@@BieZhang 點呀？突然之間又話嶺南未「漢化」完？ 🤭 粵語其實係漢族語言嚟嘅喎。甚至我哋嘅語言保留嘅中古漢語成分仲多過你哋嘅撈頭滿達語好多添喎。仲好意思話你哋漢化我哋，普通話呢個雜種死鬼語言取代我哋語言反而先係「去漢化」添 😂 一個創造出文革同用埋殘體字嘅國家仲好意思話自己要「漢化」人哋，你根本冇呢種文化底蘊，人哋仲文明過你添！仲好意思要取代人哋 😂
總之我呢輩子都唔會講呢個雜種語言，亦唔會俾取代㗎。
Not only Cantonese is spoken in the province of Gwong Dong, but also in Hong Kong, Macau and other countries overseas as well where people had immigrated to.
1 thing i like about my language Vietnamese is that we don't have to pay attention to tense of the sentence (that's why you can notice many Vietnamese having the mistake of not using correct English grammar when it is related to tense - using was/were/ had/been, ..... ) Because in my country, for example, you talk about something happen in the past, the grammar is just stay the same and we just have to include words that make people understand that it was the past (for example: hôm qua (yesterday) ; lúc đó (that time); hồi xưa (back when ...); ... In short, we don't have to use was/were ; converting verb into -ed and stuffs and that is why you can easily notice that mistake when any Vietnamese talk in English
You should have also put Korean together. As a speaker of both cantonese and Vietnamese and native Korean, It’s obvious that those three are the closest in terms of vocabulary and their respective pronunciation. By far closer than compared to Japanese.
No japanese still use chinese character while korea is not. So japanese are closer than korean.
韩语和闽南语发音更相似，有不少一样读音的词汇
@@JamesMuaxia101 日语和闽南语也一样有不少一样读音的词汇
Korean and Japanese sounds nothing like canto viet or mandarin. Korean and Japanese is closer to each other and Manchu is closest to korean
As a hokkian , I dont like to admit coz I dislike korean , basically because of korean racist, but chinese dialect that closest to korean language is hokkian…
I'm a mandarin native speaker, I have been learning Vietnamese language for more than 5 years, the grammar between Mandarin and Vietnamese has got some similar place but also are very different to each other, the longer the sentence is，the harder for Mandarin native speaker to understand , Cantonese is more easy to understand the mean.
Mandarin and viet do share some similar pronunciation but I would say compare to other Chinese language mandarin would Be less similar however there are some.
Yes we share some similar pronunciation based on the same words made of the same Chinese character as well as in Japanese and Korean languages.@@YorgosL1
Thanks a lot for endorsing my Yựt-Yựt romanization. 多謝你支持我嘅粵語拼音方案！Do-zẹ nẽi zhi-chì ngõ-gé yựt-yữ píng-yăm fong-ón!
Do-zè néih zi-cì ngóh goh jìk-jíh pêhng-jâm fong-ohng （我也借越語的字母設計了一套我這邊的白話的拉丁化拼寫，笑死）
@@Sihng-yih0818 你寫錯了幾個地方。聲調一般都是同源的，所以 do zẹ 一般不可能變成 do zè。然後 粵 yựt 不太可能變成 yịk。我沒有聽過哪裡的粵語是沒有 ư（ü/y）。T 也不可能變成 K。
@@Sihng-yih0818 你用的 h 屬於耶魯拼音，根本不是越式。
@@SkyDarmos 我是粤西赤坎的，属于高阳片白话，这边的老派确实全齐口呼，除了oe这个韵腹外，没有其他撮口呼元音的。此外，我们也不太区分阳去和阳平调，统一并入阳平调了，调值为21。当然，我设计的这套拼写也只是为了记录我们家日常的白话用语而已，借鉴的也不只越语，还有耶鲁的拼法。
@@SkyDarmos 此外，我们老派就已经不区分t尾和k尾了，可能是受雷州话影响的缘故，所以统一写成k尾。
I have to corrrect the sinoVietnamese words accounts for over 38% of vocabulary only, this is based on a recent doctorate study of a Chinese researcher.
The tones sắc and nặng change to 55 and 33 respectively and there is no glottal stop anymore when there is a final consonant.
Another cognate (I think) is dac biet in Vietnamese and dak bit in Cantonese for "special."
Sino Vietnamese has 100% cognates with Han Chinese. This is not a coincidence.
The people of Guangdong and Guangxi 4000 years ago the lands of the Vietnamese people. It is not the entire Vietnamese people today but it is a part of Northern Vietnam. They were assimilated and accepted by the Han people. Han is the father. That is one thing that confirms that Vietnam will always fight with China to maintain the current Vietnamese race.
what a joke,even 越南-----the name of Vietnam is created by Chinese.
你们怎么跟韩国人一样了
是被殖民兄弟。如今还没有结束。我们壮族还屹立不倒。但是不久的将来壮语可能被完结。这是汉文化的成功。我们壮族与老挝人是一个民族还包括越南的岱依族和侬族。
Can Cantonese and Vietnamese speakers stop fighting in the comments?
Vietnamese love cantonese, but it is one-sided love. Vietnamese even go as far as calling cantonese as non chinese 😅😅😅😅😂😂
I am from Hong Kong and living in Vietnam for 2 years. I studied Vietnamese for a year now. I do feel the languages are closed and quite easy for me to pick up Vietnamese especially on speaking and listening.
In school ,we have to learn cantonese vietnamese,it s use in poem.i know 3 languges.also vietnamese have a lot french word too.
😂😂聽起來像的原因是越南語借用了很多古漢語詞彙，而廣東話跟古漢語發音又比較接近，日語、韓語也借用了很多古漢語詞彙
Bạn nói đúng , tui là người Quảng đông sống ở tphcm , rất nhiều từ đều vây mượn từ tiếng Quảng đông như từ xá xíu ( 叉燒 ) tiếng việt không có nghĩa người ta hiểu theo tiếng Quảng đông là thịt xiên nướng
我覺得發音特徵上來說粵語和越南語比日韓語更接近（尤其是兩個都有聽起來很像的-ng韻尾），再加上都是聲調語言就更像了，日韓語都沒有固定聲調
這是我一個不會廣東話的台灣人的直觀感想
@@Syouk 差遠了，越南語感覺舌頭都伸不直沒一句話都感覺很燙嘴，廣東話有些是鼻音，沒有那種燙嘴的感覺。不過越南語跟泰語、老撾語、高棉語很像，但是越南語跟高棉語是近親，泰語和老撾語屬於漢藏語系
@@user-ve6zf7pc5gwrong history
@@user-ve6zf7pc5gvietnamese aint noting like khmer 💀
i think your videos will benefit a lot if you slowed down a bit by adding examples when you talk about the linguistic differences. Im a cantonese speaker and i still had problem following your video
Half Cantonese here. My mom is Cantonese, dad is American. But my mom was born in Vietnam and grew up there for about 9 years. Her family fled the country to go to America a few years after Saigon fell. I am trying to learn more about how my mom's family ended up in Vietnam
Overall, well done. You have put a lot of thought into your analysis. The Vietnamese that I was taught over 50 years ago maybe different in some areas than the current system. At around the 12:16 mark, you referenced the chopsticks as “cap dua” whereas I am used to the phrase “doi dua”. I believe when referencing animate vs. inanimate objects, terms are different. Is this a regional thing or has terminologies changed over the years? Thoughts, anyone?
Doi dua is still used today. Actually very common way to say it in Hue and the north.
The internet can post anything. Just because it’s online it doesn’t mean it’s true.
I grew up on the Mekong River Delta and we say "đôi đũa" more often than "cặp đũa"
@@comeflywithme1694 People can post anything online. It doesn't mean it's true.
I was born in Huế in a village by the oceanside. I remember neighboring villages had slight accent differences.
I already came across more than 50% Vietnamese that can spoke Cantonese.
Tôi đọc nhiều bình luận của các bạn Trung Quốc trên này thấy nhiều người nghĩ người Việt Nam thích có cùng gốc gác với người Quảng Đông lắm nhỉ. Thực tế là ở Việt Nam rất bài Trung Quốc, nên đừng có nói là đồng bào hay gốc gác gì, những gì dính líu đến Trung Quốc liên quan đến vấn đề dân tộc là ghét hết. Đến cả trong bài Bình Ngô Đại Cáo có nhắc câu" Từ Triệu, Đinh, Lý Trần bao đời gây nền độc lập. Cùng Hán, Đường, Tống, Minh mỗi bên xưng đế một phương" thì " Triệu" ở đây là Triệu Đà được bao đời phong kiến VN xác định là vị Vua của nước mình. Nhưng đến hiện tại thì Triệu Đà được xác định như một tên vua của nước địch( đơn giản vì có gốc gác là người Hán, làm quan thời Tần).
Cái này phải xem lại sử Xuân Thu Chiến Quốc với Đông Chu Liệt quốc.... thời này người Hán bắt đầu đi cư xuống phía nam...
Lịch Sử Việt vương Câu Tiễn sống ở phía Nam Thượng Hải là người chống nhà Hán khi nước họ ở gần các quốc gia người Hán nhất.... thời này trùng với thời sự tích 18 đời vua Hùng ở Việt Nam...
Nói đơn giản Vua Hùng Việt Nam và Câu Tiễn ở thượng Hải là anh em dòng họ 😂
Ông Tô Lâm là người gốc Tàu đấy, làm sao bây giờ !!??😢😢😢
@@Xubaosongthật ra họ của người Việt nam hầu như đều có họ tàu, điều đó có thể là do nguồn gốc các dòng họ di dân từ vùng Trung Nguyên hay nước nam việt, nhà hán vào định cư ở Giao Chỉ hay các lớp di dân thời nhà Minh Thanh vào Đại Việt, ở lại sinh sống ở Việt nam, đã đồng hóa và thống nhất với tên gọi chung là dân tộc kinh. bản chất dân tộc kinh có nghĩa là bất cứ nguồn gốc nào (tày, thái, nanyue, khách gia, phúc kiến, tiều, mân việt, hán, tần, mường, mông,....), sinh sống ở vùng đồng bằng sông hồng, nói tiếng Việt nam, chọn quê hương Tổ quốc là Việt nam. Nên ở đây không có gì gọi là... gốc tàu cả bạn nhé. Tôi họ Trương, nhưng tôi là dân tộc kinh việt nam nhé.
越南李朝，黎朝，陳朝的皇帝都是來自中國的漢人，阮朝甚至自稱漢人。你們把你們的歷史再改編一下吧。
@@Xubaosong cali khát nước à
我覺得廣東話跟越南話兩者都很像 源自於 相同 一個語言叫漢語
very informative and interesting!
I studied 5 years of Cantonese and 1 period of Vietnamese a day for 5 years , started to relearn Vietnamese in 2024 ,plan to use my Vietnamese next year when I visit Vietnam, it’s good to have challenges 👍
Similar or not if one is Chinese and does not think like the Chinese Government, we Viets do like him/her.
Yes, vietnamese language is quite similar to cantonese. You guys have shared ancestry and that ancestry can be found in Guangdong and guangxi provinces mainly. You guys can come back any time and enjoy all the benefits and privileges of a civilized citizen of the 21st century Middle Kingdom.
@@remhk6672 No, we prefer to build Vietnam to be an independent, advanced and strong country, a country ruled by the majority of people's wish.
My family is Chinese from Vietnam. My Mom studied East Asian History and speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, Tieu Jiu, Vietnamese and English fluently. She also studied both Chinese KanZi and Vietnamese while growing up there and taught me a lot of the history as an American. The reason why Vietnamese is so similar to Cantonese is because the biggest migration to Vietnam hundreds of years ago if not thousands of years ago were Cantonese, then Tieu Jiu and some Hokkianese and Hakka people from China. The literature was brought to Vietnam. Vietnamese language and writing use to be based on traditional Chinese characters until the French colonization that changed their writing to romanized letters. However, the Vietnamese language itself is mainly derived from Chinese characters. The last names are all Chinese translated into Vietnamese. Originally they did not have last names and followed the names from the mixing with the Chinese. It’s difficult to find a pure Vietnamese person not related to some Chinese ancestry. Many over several generations don’t claim they are Chinese or mixed because of discrimination. However, more than 90% are mixed with Chinese blood if not mainly Chinese but born and raised in Vietnam. My Dad’s family had been in Vietnam for over 200 years. They only speak Vietnamese and call themselves Vietnamese, but our family history scroll clearly shows we’re Chinese with very minimal mixing (I’m less than 1/16th of Vietnamese). The clothes of Vietnamese people actually is from a small tribe in south China from hundreds if not thousands of years ago. It was shown through the Taiwanese news years back interviewing the Chinese tribe that was happy to see Vietnam continue on their traditional clothes that they no longer wear. Even the Vietnamese culture, customs, traditions and cuisine is heavily derived from the Chinese, particularly the Cantonese. This is why the Vietnamese are more like the Canton (Guang Dong) people than northern China people are to the Canton people. My wife is Vietnamese American and I always joke with her what “Banh Pia” is. She has no idea what “Pia” meant in Vietnamese. The reason is because that pastry is a Tieu Jiu pastry. They just use the “Pia” in my Chinese dialect to tag to “Banh”. Both actually mean cake/pastry. So the Vietnamese people are calling a Chinese pastry “cake cake” in two languages. When we look at history and anthropology across Asians, we are all truly very similar in many ways and should appreciate one another. Our heritage are likely linked somehow and some way.
Gen của người Việt khá giống với người Thái Lan. Điên hay sao kêu Việt Nam và Trung Quốc gen giống nhau. Ngoại hình,tính cách,khuôn mặt,ngôn ngữ khác nhau 1 trời 1 vực vậy mà đi so với nhau. Việt Nam chúng tao thà có gen của người châu phi còn hơn có gen của người Trung Quốc mắt hí xếch,bẩn tính,thâm độc..
@@ucthinh3018ypu cant deny history hold your banana😅
What is the diacritic used in the IPA for final consonants?
I think you mean the ◌̚ (upper-right corner diacritic), which indicates a stop with no audible release, also known as an unreleased stop or an applosive, e.g. [p̚], [t̚], [k̚].
How I had this idea explained to me is that imagine you're pronouncing the word "cap", but before your lips open up to let the air out for the /p/ sound at the end, your lips and just freeze there and never open to let the air out. That's what [p̚] sounds like.
Same with [t̚] and [k̚] where once either the tip or the back of your tongue respectively hits the roof of your mouth, it just freezes there like there's glue and you never let the air out at the end.
It will feel very unnatural if you speak a language where every final consonant sound has to be released, but with enough practice, you'll be able to do it just like any other sound.
@@ikkue ah thanks! I'm aware of what these are, just didn't know how they are notated in IPA, really appreciate the explanation though!
Cantonese speaker here - I played lunchtime soccer on a daily basis with some Vietnamese friends. To me, Vietnamese sounds like jumbled Cantonese played backwards on an audio program. They’re clearly using the same sounds, but I just couldn’t make it out like I’m too far away or trying to hear them in a busy cha chaan teng restaurant. Never got round to asking my viet friends if they think Cantonese sounds like backwards Vietnamese.
Vietnamese language is totally different from Cantonese language. Only those people who don’t know about the languages and think they’re are similar because they sound the same for people who don’t know the language. As a Cantonese speaker, we can’t understand a word what Vietnam people said and vice versa.
As someone who speaks Cantonese as a non-native, I think these two languages have very similar phonology, and I wouldn't have told them apart had I not learned to speak Cantonese.
The only similarity between them is the Chinese part, just like other Sino influenced languages like Japanese and Korean.
Define "Chinese part". China, as I recall, does not precede Cantonese.
And does not precede Vietnamese either.
@@Perry15 The "Chinese part" means the Middle Chinese which certainly precedes Cantonese. You know that 60% of Vietnamese vocabulary is Sino-Vietnamese words? Wonder where the "sino" part come from? It comes from the Middle Chinese. The Middle Chinese precedes both Vietnamese and Cantonese. The difference is that Cantonese is a descendent of the Middle Chinese while Vietnanmese simply has loan words from Chinese.
@@DD-qf1xt there was no such thing as "China" as it's a fairly new term to indicate a nationally. The people that speak Cantonese were not Han. They were collectively a Yue group that became assimilated, and their vocabulary is more closely related to the language of the people from the north. If you look at their genome, they're more closely related to the northern Vietnamese than to their northern countrymen.
@@Perry15 Lol I was talking about the Chinese language why do you bring up '''China" as a nationality? The only thing similar between Cantonese and Vietnamese language is vocabulary, which is from the Middle Chinese and has nothing to do with Yue or whatever. The genome also does not support a relationship between Cantonese and Vietnamese. Go and find Vinmec's Vietnamese Genome Research Project, then compare it with the Cantonese genome, they are not close at all. Genetically speaking Thai is the closest to Vietnamese.
The same with Korean, Japanese, these 4 languages are all influenced by Chinese so many words have similar pronounciation, interesting but not special.
Yue means Viet. At some angles, you can say Cantonese got influence from Vietnamese language, since at one time, both Guangdong and Guangxi provinces belonged to Vietnam. As you already know, Cantonese is the language in those two provinces.
Thanks for your sharing
I am Vietnamese and honestly I don't understand 100% Cantonese. But I found it similar after watched your video
Do you know the history of Vietnam?
The founder of Vietnam?
You should check it out.
@@quayhho6182 Of course they are Vietnamese, at least Vietnamese people still control their own country, unlike Hong Kong people who have to speak two more languages: Yue (粤) and Mandarin (满大人). all southern Hua groups have always been assimilated by northerners (Huaxia, Mongol, Manchus, etc), and have never been able to form their own nations, still today speaking two languages
Yue are not Chinese, even a few are part nowadays China. They called us YUENAN which means Southern Viet. There were a few Yue groups such southern/Eastern Yue back to the day
it's like inner Mongolia and Mongolia, Mongol are not Chin or Qin.
Guangzhou was part of Yue, not Han that's why people speak Yue and later became Cantonese
There are no more pure Yue in today's Quang Dong
Vietnamese Kinh are the only rightful heirs of Nam Viet.
Cantonese speakers are majority descended from Tang dynasty refugees who were pushed out of northern China by steppe nomads, escaping into former Nam Viet territory. What is Quảng Dong today was once inhabited by Kra-Dai speakers.
This is why Cantonese use Tongjan 唐人 as an endonym because they revere the Tang as the greatest dynasty. This is in contrast to other Chinese that prefer to name themselves after the Han dynasty 漢 or pre-dynastic Hua 華.
Cantonese language is Sino-Tibetan with an Kra-Dai substratum retaining more archaic pronunciations compared to other Chinese.
Vietnamese language is Austroasiatic with a Sino-Tibetan superstrarum where the loanwords and pronunciations borrowed at a similar archaic stage of Chinese.
Although goodbye is often translated as tạm biệt, it is never used in a conversation. Typically we use "bye" or chào + pronoun. Tạm biệt is typically found in literature only.
Like for example, bye anh or chào anh.
Is chào a loan from Italian ciao or is it a coincidence?
@@petra1995 It is just a coincidence.
yeah i never heard anybody say “tạm biệt” besides foreigners
If they are expecting to see you next week, they will never use 「Tạm biệt」, but they will if it's a long parting.
@@NonneinPthis is correct as a Vietnamese
8:33 what is kanji and hanja?
Cantonese have retain the ancient Chinese ending of P-T-K-M which is no longer have in mandarin. Also the start sound of NG which still kept throughout Cantonese and Vietnamese have all of those features. Hence the similarities will be much closer than mandarin. Cantonese as a Chinese language resemble Hakka, taishanese , Hokkien more than mandarin which is in the far north while canto is a southern language and border closer to other South East Asia such as Thai / japanese etc.
Totally agree
Imagine that Vietnamese is a combination affected by Cantonese and French, or Latin. Vietnamese expresses the words in writing in Alphabet and it's pronounced like Cantonese.
So one thing that's wrong about the video is that our modern Latin alphabet did not come from colonialism. Western Jesuits came as soon as 1533 and they realised that almost all common folks were illiterate so they wanted to make a writing system easier for the people so that they could preach with ease. The ones popularised the new system were Viets, not some colonialist pricks. Vietnamese writing system is hugely influenced by Portuguese and Italian than French. We use the "nh" in Portuguese and the "gi" in Italian. This concept is also represented in the Vietnamisation of Saints' name. We have Gio-an for John from Giovanni or Gian in Italian, Phê rô for Peter from Pedro in Portuguese or Phao-lô from Paolo
@@Mars-d9m You are absolutely right. "Francisco de Pina (1585 - 1625) was a Portuguese Jesuit interpreter, missionary and priest, credited with creating the first Latinized script of the Vietnamese language, which the modern Vietnamese alphabet is based on."