There is another sweet detail that Limbus does to characters: IDs kits. Have we noticed that Gregor IDs nearly always aren't meant for clashing, and do much better when in backline or straightout on bench? That Hong Lu almost never has team synergy though performs outstanding as selfish unit?
NClair is peak for his skill descriptions and kit aswell. Losing sanity with each attack, Self destructive purge, gaining half sp on clash win called "mad flame... but also his defense skill "enough..." that gives back sanity. As if he briefly stopped. Maybe a moment of lucidity, or self-realization, but definitely something that his "broken self" gets pierced by
🫵 what are you doing scrounging around inside my mysterious-shack-in-grandpop's-backyard-full-of-random-bullshit tier skull like a racoon, bringing up some rusty thoughts, and then washing them in a puddle 🫵
Depends, does Fortnite need a good story? How about Minecraft? It kinda just depends on what the devs set out to achieve. RPGs/story-driven games need it, but games that want more emphasis on gameplay/action don’t need to worry about it as much
Honestly, I believe that it depends on the game. For example, sure, Yakuza has a fun gameplay. But I would've dropped it mid 0, if the story only existed to explain the gameplay.
Arknights, PM and Persona games are all Nice gameplay wise with Raw visuals + great fucking stories. Getting moved by the story, and changing how you feel while playing like how you mentioned "Do we have to fight this guy?", (5:27) or when you fight Roland in LOR. (Maybe Abit less feels for Lolan). Just showd how a story can actually impact the gameplay even if it doesn't physically change things ingame. Instead changing how you feel as the player. W picks Tsunul, Speak yo shit!!
PGR represents! If only chapters 1-8 wasn't such a slog people will see just how well written the stories are, chapter 15-18 and Cinder Burns alone are criminally kept in the dark
Not to mention that along with Chapter 1-8, the early-game progression of PGR is also a slog. The only reason why I trudged along was because of the gameplay and the promise of a good story. Once I started Ch. 9, I saw the sparks of brilliance within it, so I kept on playing. Then I proceeded to read 4~ish years' worth of story in the course of 2 months. Needless to say, I became a fan; however, I can't blame anyone else for not wanting to deal with the early-game funk. That combined with the astronomical amount of reading to catch up to the current patch, PGR's story is pretty hard to get into. But hey, the gameplay is still fun.
For me, what made me play PGR is CW and Combat. Which I read the story , Chapter9 hit me not very hard because I was spoiled about Selena before that and it made me like the Dark of the story. Which is very good and very DARK after chapter9 But I didn't read more after reading Her Last Bow because it was as long as reading novels and I was not good at English Every time I read it took 4 to 8 hours. And it makes my head and eyes hot Which I am still playing Now it's a year and a half // Want to go back and read But I'm lazy
I loved that game, very Nier-ish would be nice if the game was on Steam tho...(yes I know it has a pc launcher and yes I'm using it, but still, I would rather like if the game was released on Steam).
A story certainly helps flesh out a game and the characters in them; sometimes it's necessary, sometimes you can get away with loopholes, lack of depth and other stuff. An important factor comes down to the player and how much they want to invest, how much they want to build by themselves too, after all the story is nothing but a tool. And let's us be honest some people have nothing but crumbs and yet the have whole fandoms around those games (the power of brainrot I guess) Anyway, thanks once again for the video, Tsunul! It was interesting to watch ✨
One of my favorite games is the first No More Heroes. It could've easily wound up feeling like a DMC knockoff with dumbed down combat, but I think what really makes it special is how it characterizes its protagonist, Travis, through the gameplay. Like during the game's actual levels he's killing people by the dozens while spewing dumb one-liners like a bargain-bin DMC Dante, but what makes him a really interesting character is how he acts in the hub world. That, outside of the levels, when you're just doing menial odd jobs to get enough cash to pay for the RIGHT to enter the next level, Travis is completely silent, all his bravado completely vanishes as he meekly does whatever demeaning work he's asked to do. It paints the picture of a guy who's incredibly dissatisfied with the life he's currently living, constantly doing tedious dehumanizing work just to pay rent, and as such, you kind of get why he's pathetically killing all these people to try and become the world's greatest assassin and trying to mimic his favorite videogame and manga characters. That in the end he's a guy who just doesn't know how to give his life purpose and is desperately clinging to his fantasies in order to distract himself from how aimless he feels. I guess that's why I feel like grinding for cash in NMH1 is ESSENTIAL to the experience and why I don't think any of the sequels quite captured the magic of the first game (though with that said, I do still really like the sequels and Travis Strikes Again in particular, as I think it did a really amazing job building on Travis' character.) While I think it's easy to say NMH's message is that "gamers are losers and they should go outside," imo the message feels more nuanced, that with how hard life is, it's understandable to want some escapism, and that escapism can even be good and healthy for you, but you need to recognize that consuming media isn't going to fix the underlying issues with your life, that even though it's scary, you need to face things sooner or later or else it will destroy you
I feel like I'm the only person who actually *enjoys* Limbus' gameplay at this point XD But on the question of story in games, even in games that barely focus on story if at all i still greatly enjoy finding what crumbs there are, unless it's a sandbox like Terraria where i very much could not care less. Etrian Odyssey for example is a series that's very light on story until the endgame, where for most of the game you're just one of many guilds with very little overarching plot, at the end many little plot threads from throughout the game come together for a genuinely engaging story. And a fantastic story like Omori just sticks with you for life man, the medium of Video Games is honestly perfect for making stories feel more impactfull by having *you* be the one to move it forward, instead of just *watching* it move forward. But i also seem to have *very* low standards for stories since i genuinely watched To Love Ru Darkness for the actual plot so take my take with a grain of salt i guess XD
Yeah, don't understand why so many people don't enjoy Limbus's gameplay. It's honestly my favorite game to play. But then again I don't just run all S tier id's and actually try to put effort into interesting teams
@@R0se_Bulletsame I just set up my 7 status teams then when new things drop toss the new thing into one of my pre-existing teams or use one of the outher 13 teams while I do my 2 mds a day excluding MD reset day where I do 3
Putting my thoughts here: As for the same reasons people like different things, games have different varieties of reaching those things. Dark souls if it was in a more direct format may possibly get more people interested in the lore and to a lot of people be an overall positive to the game. However, there is a market and a group of people who want it to be so unintuitive. Because both the developers and there being a subset of players that are interested in this type of story telling it’s a possible format for people then. The added benefit is that enjoying the story and or the gameplay aren’t bundled together, people can enjoy different things. Something to keep in mind is that there is a scale of how direct storytelling is done. Elden ring and other from software games have no hand holding with the story and you must seek it out, and then there are games completely on the other side with hand holding and literally regurgitating the information sort of like how Genshin is. Then there’s the other axis where how much story is actually there? Is there literally not story, pretty much no story, minimal story, a storyline, or is the story fully fleshed out?
I haven't seen the whole video yet but here's my take on the topic. I think games should be judged on what they're trying to do instead of a do not trying to do so if a game is trying to have a good story and the story is bad you should criticize it just like if the game has bad music. But if the game has no story or music at all you should not criticize it for the lack of those things unless the exclusion hinders the goal of the game.
Depending on game type. Story is not completely necessary. But a good story, DOES enhance and enrich a game. And a story can make people pick non meta choices over meta ones
When I saw the title, I was thinking Reverse 1999 was gonna be on the list as chapter 6 was craaazy, and Farewell Rayashki was absolutely beautiful imo. Although out of topic, but I love the effort Blue Porch put in it with various of characters with different accents and even speaking in their mother language (this is just me but I was shocked Satsuski's VA is both her ENG and JP), and Isolde's VA (still this is just me thing) does all the opera singing part (and I was assuming they used a singer to do the singing parts).
The story is the #1 most important factor in media that is non-interactive, such as reading a book or watching a movie. However for games which are interactive, the #1 most important factor should be gameplay. If gameplay isn't well executed, it's very hard to succeed even if the story, music, visuals etc are fantastic. What would happen is you'd have people wishing they could just experience the great story without the horrible gameplay, which leads to not playing the game and instead going to youtube to watch someone else's playthrough of the game.
I am once again considering catching up reading Arknights story and reinstalling PGR. My thoughts on the topic, For me my favorite game moments are the ones I was the most emotionally invested in and/or ones where I overcame a huge challenge. Those tend to be the memories that remain and I value that. Like my peaks are: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red, Crosscode, Godhand, Armored Core Last Raven, DMC 3/5, Lobcorp, Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, both Milk VNs, and Sound Voltex. Edit because I'm a fraud and remembered in the shower: Putting all of Metal Gear in the Peak section, but specifically the final bosses of MGS3 and Peace Walker, holy shit man, I think about Heaven's Divide CONSTANTLY. I also replayed MGS1 4 times last year and MGS2 3 times(Streaming for friends on discord) and I really love every bit of dialogue in MGS1 specifically, I can almost quote that entire game it's engraved into me the same way lobcorp is. Edit 2: I MEAN THE FIGHT ON TOP OF THE THING AT THE END OF MGS4 FUCKKKK MAN Not my favorite moments, but an interesting world really sticks to my brain as well. Stuff like Abe's Exodus(Pretty much all of the Oddworld games) and Project Moon's city setting have really glued to my brain since I first learned of them.(My imagination was going wild while reading distortion detective.) Lastly, compelling likeable cute anime characters. I'll take your whole stock. My teen years were full of trying to find the perfect anime mmo/rhythm game. Anyways another good video, always enjoy your stuff dude enjoy episode Aegis I know a lotta my friends are probably gonna play that.
The thing I love most about P3 is how it perfectly ties its gameplay systems with the themes of the story. One must remember that it was the first game in the series with the calendar/social link system and I don't think its coincidence that the main gameplay loop is all about time management and socializing, and then the main theme of the story is confronting mortality, how finite life is and how the human connections we make are ultimately what we leave behind. The game also sorta nudges its message into the player through gameplay subtext, as in, the literal worst thing you can do gameplay wise in P3 is wasting your free time doing nothing, not working on improving yourself, or bonding with someone, etc. I think you can also stretch it a bit and say that the combat also reinforces that theme, even though Reload isn't that difficult and the series has always been a more casual SMT experience, the combat is still highly lethal and you can die in a single turn if you are not careful, which gives that feeling of frailty. I do admit its a stretch though lol I am not good enough with words to explain it but P3 is also my favorite game of all time since I played the PS2 version years ago and the more I play the more I appreciate just how unique it is even when compared to the later entries in the series
My conclusion: Though the story can highlight and make the game better, it’s not ESSENTIAL in ALL games. Every game needs something that makes playing it worth your time, whether it’s heart-pounding gameplay or the feeing of triumph against all odds, a nice and cozy time, the dopamine rush of gambling for waifus or peak fiction. Some quality of the game needs to be worth YOUR time, and what that is solely depends on you. And if it IS the story that’s that feature, then BOY is is going to be a spectacle.
Before I finished LoR, Gone Angels was just a cool and somber song. Now after having finished LoR my mind goes into a near catatonic state because of everything I’ve now associated with that one song. The fight, the second bad ending, the dialogue and all of my previous memories and experiences inside the Library. I get reminded of how I got to this point, and it just *DESTROYS* me (in a good way). Basically what I’m saying is that Library of Ruina’s story resonates with me way too much and I love it to death
If youre up for a story, maybe try searching for Yumie's Lore Archive and if their vol.1 and Vol.2 summarization intrigued you, I'd suggest to read Vol.3 on your own either by playing or see the translation on youtube
ULTRAKILL is a good example of a game that doesn't delve very far into the story, it's mainly gameplay with a bit of story and lore sprinkled in, but aside from the hot robot angel I don't really see anyone playing to know what V1's backstory is, or to know what the lore of the bosses is, they mostly just care about the gameplay which is fun as hell. Then if you manage to sprinkle in story, that's a cherry on top, but isn't exactly needed, and if it's bad it could even bring down the gameplay itself. Overall it's a neat, very neat addition but it isn't necessary.
it seems like the basic answer, is that games are a unique medium, in which a narrative is just one of the ways you can 'play with' a game, engaging with its themes or characters or plot in the same way you'd engage with game mechanics. some find a game more compelling when it layers in the narrative elements, others don't resonate and engage with it separately for me, Bloodborne is the perfect example. as my first true soulsborne, the horror of hiding from basic mobs, panic and frenzy of swinging wildly as a noob, and eventual memorization of locations and patterns, really put me in the shoes of the Hunter. I learned more to Survive. and as the Eldritch truth slowly revealed itself, as I gained Insight and learned about the Old Blood, Eyes on the Inside, the atmosphere and themes and even the music gained more meaning, like the music box lullaby or the Latin chanting in Yahar'gul. but I fully recognize that the gameplay is very much satisfying enough on its own, purely because its a masterfully created work of fiction and game design
PGR MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥 imo, i think games don't NEED a good story, but a good story can elevate the experience a lot. some players, like me, mostly play for the story and can enjoy games without being engaged in the story, but won't be as invested. and that's a valid way to play video games! other players, however, simply want to blow things up, or beat a boss, or shoot other players, or explore, or build, or countless other possibilities. and that is also a valid way to play video games! they're meant to be enjoyed, and different players will enjoy difrerent kinds of games. i personally enjoy story-heavy games, but while i do occasionally play visual novels, i like my games to have satisfying gameplay in addition to that. imo, video games work best when the story and gameplay work together cohesively (see twewy, my favorite video game of all time). but that's just my 2 cents!
I don’t see enough people mention PGR enough, even limbus gets mentioned way more!(Though I am a big PM fan as well.), probably because there’s quite a few chapters you need to play through to reach the given one! There’s so many other great pieces of lore skipped here, but I’m absolutely positive PGR should pique your interest as it not only has great open-world(?) style gameplay, but also has great visuals as well as MUSIC!! It has some of the best MUSIC made by Vanguard. I’d recommend listening to NARWHAL and going from there!!!
I literally finished The surviving Lucem in PGR recently and boy did it live up to the hype! It was so good that it's a struggle not to cry each episode! Everything about it was well done
in another timeline there is a tsunul who stuck with GFL and this video would've included GFL's extensive world building, entertaining characters, and of course existentialism
I mean, Having a story is definetley content to having a good game. Like a bad game, can't be saved with an incredible story... (Maybe since Limbus Company exists.) Having both a good game and a story that can make you feel/change your actions 5:40 ~, definitely makes a good game.
@@Zawaito Lor animation was ass and only more interesting in attack, evade, defense trade/parry encounters. Limbus is objectively just better, doesnt mean its good tho
I asked my friend why he keeps playing Nikke Goddess of Victory even though it's a fanservice game. He said he was hooked by the fan service first, then stayed for the story, lore, character designs, and personality. Nikke is good at making emotional moments and even though the gameplay isn't his favorite since he's more of an action game guy, he keeps playing it. He also said the community is nice and the devs listen to them.
You pointed out with drakengard 3 that bad gameplay can hold a good story behind. Take a look at the sequel, nier automata, how good gameplay can elevate an even greater story. If drakengard had that platinum/dmc gameplay it would be held as one of the greatest series of all time
Sure, but at least with drakengard 1 it was made on purpose to be ass because it suppose to convey the feeling that killing isn't fun(kinda like with lobcorp tho it has diffrent reason)
@@benaressu I thought it was mainly due to them trying to emulate dynasty warriors type of gameplay. Though that does make sense with how much yoko taro likes to have gameplay reflect the story and themes
@alexl3438 If I remember it's both, emulate dynasty warrior gameplay but also makes it purposely unenjoyable for the theme Taro was going for(also budget issue lol), that murdеrеrs don't deserve a happy end, hence each endings progressively harder to get. Making the gameplay better in the potential remake while will make the game more enjoyable, it will defeat it's original purpose, but idk.
I think gameplay is more important than story when it comes to video games but to make the game memorable & timeless, it also needs to have a good story.
Amazing gameplay can grab you on its own and for some games it might be enough for their players to stick around, but for games that just have great to mediocre gameplay, the story is integral to make them standout from the crowd. Perfect situation for this was showcased in the current discussion ongoing about Fire Emblem Engage vs Fire Emblem: Three Houses. To this day, the latter has people talk about its characters, story and themes. Engage on the other hand, while having the best gameplay in the series in years fails to stay as memorable for most people because they did not have a narrative to connect to, sales also reflect this, overall 3H sold better than Engage the last time Nintendo released data
I believe a game should have a good philosophical theme, a good world and a grand/enjoyable cast. The story can come after all those things. That being said, I still believe a game must have good gameplay and thats subjective but me personally I don't like visual novels and I like when a game has great gameplay! So what im trying to say is: 1. Gameplay 2. Cast/Characters 3. Themes 4. World Building 5. Story 6. Music Or something like that. Anyways, great video!
Also Tsunul Surviving Lucem was a great patch and all But i think you MIGHT want to read over all of Selena related stories Like, dear lord Kuro gave her a REALLY special case
@@FrizFrozIdk tho, even PGR still has Limbus level of "World is messed up, but good things can still exist" If anything its WILD that PGR writers are the same people who made WuWa who is just.... why
@@RenoKyrie Not saying it doesn't, just that PGR's best chapters are also its most tragic ones. Survival Lucem, Cinder Burns, Selena Interlude and affection story (girl can't even get a break during her _affection_ story lmao) etc. The turning point for when PGR's story first started kicking it up a notch also involves us losing Lotus too.
A couple things I'd like to say that weren't talk about in the video. One being attachment to the gameplay. You mentioned of how a good story can add to the enjoyment of segments of the gameplay via context but I'd also go so far as to say a good story can make you put up with the quirks of the gameplay to the point that you find those very quirks enjoyable in the same way of how you said that story could enhance your enjoyment of a song due to the feelings tied up in them. Second would be gameplay as a story itself. Even if something is not explicitly written out the gameplay itself can create personalized stories. Think of Lobotomy Corporation and how many players ended up having a reliable ace team of nuggets that basically became characters themselves that those players became attached to. Or to use the souls series as an example, you probably have a couple vivid memories of certain bosses or areas that you struggle with greatly, learning and growing before finally overcoming the obstacle. Even with a game series you explicitly said you don't go to for the story, you probably ended up having your own personalized story about overcoming odds through clever tactics, strengthening yourself to match the odds, sheer determination or some combination of these. Entirely emergent from the gameplay, but no less a story.
Games are the sum of their parts, though not all parts are weighed as heavily. For example, most people will agree that gameplay is the most important and many will say graphics are the least. Regardless, they still impact the overall experience and product. I would put story on one of the more important branches as many people, myself included, will tolerate weaknesses in the other prongs if a story is good. I think story also serves an important function of a game where it directly impacts a game's lasting power and memorability. Most games will not be Dark Souls or Tetris or Metroid, etc where their gameplay alone leaves an incredible impression personally or culturally (Not to mention the other things those games do). It would be nice if the world we lived in was like that but it isn't. As such, I think story and writing goes a long way to forming lasting memories and good impressions for games. I still see or go back to videos about games like Persona 4, Final Fantasy 7 (original), Firewatch, Ace Attorney, Limbus Company, etc and those are almost never about the gameplay (or the gameplay in a vacuum anyways).
It always depends but most often then not the game(s) will benefit from having a good story As an example, i played Heroes of the Storm back in the day and there was this guy called Artanis in it, and i absolutely hated him, i thought he was just an unskilled piece of garbage and i didnt even want to touch him with a 10 feet pole Then i played Starcraft: Legacy of the Void And throughout the entire story i came to like him and his character so much that back in HOTS i started playing him not only regularly, but with a specific skin which was connected to the Legacy of the Void campaign and i just refused to swap to anythig else on him. That campaign made let go of my blind hatered to the character completely and this is why having a good story can be most of the times be benefitial to the game, people like playing with characters and playing in worlds more that they made a connection with and come to understand
Persona 3 is my favorite game of all time as well. The story being a huge part of that. A game definitely doesn't have to have a good story in order to be a good game. Some games are enhanced by having a good story greatly, while in others it may feel unneeded. A game should focus on what it does best, and focus on that.. In the end games are a variety of experiences, ones that are not all the same and that's what makes them special.
Some games have a lot more debatablity on "needing a story" part. Does DOOM need a story? "Who the fuck cares here is a gun and go shoot shit i don't care" is what you would expect to hear from devs but they actually put in the effort to create some what good lore and a somewhat servicable story. However some games do not have that debatablity as I really don't think people would love persona as much if it had no story. Depends on the game really,
While I do love story and if a game has one and it doesnt grab me I might stop playing but of course there are games without story that do just as well. So yea it depends on the game. Another great video :)
out there, there is a world where hypergryph decided to make an open world game instead of hoyoverse i wish to visit that universe (yes i know endfield exists (maybe) but that doesnt take place in the same place so doesnt count) oh and great video by the way! subbed!
To me, it's almost always both aspects of gameplay and narrative building (be it lore or story to environmental world-building) complimenting each other. It's not a question of does one need the other because either would always exist by nature of most video games save for some designed to be solely for gameplay like Tetris. I do prefer games that has more fleshed-out world-building or lore despite not having a concrete story. And that's the reason I'm not fond of most survival games (w.g. valheim, no man's sky) despite having great gameplay, as a lover of single-player games. By nature, one cannot trutly separate the intangible that is lore and story to the tangible that is gameplay. Rven Doom has a story and lore either implicitly or explicitly shown. It's like asking if technicality in music more important than the emotion it tried to convey. It's a moot question because regardless of what you believe, music will trigger some sort of human reaction even the absurd genres like sound poetry. Take PGR for instance, the gameplay is enough for me to play it but I honestly wouldn't play it if the story isn't good.
One example I always go to for games not needing stories is any monster hunter game. There's alot of lore and worldbuilding through the monsters' designs and fights, but in terms of a narrative, there isn't much to write home about. It makes sense since the "villains" are just big dangerous animals going about their life and just happening to pose a threat to the people or ecosystem at the end of the day. The gameplay loop just carries the game and fulfills all I really need out of it, and that is much more than enough.
For me, it's more a question of if a game needs a good story to be entertaining. Mario games typically don't need a good story to be entertaining, although I certainly enjoy their RPG titles more than their platformers. On the other hand, if a game is a genre I normally dislike such as, say, a deckbuilder game, they had better have a good or enjoyable story to keep my interest as I struggle through the system.
Admittedly for me its kinda weird because a lot of the time even when a game is poorly written I can have a lot of fun with them. Mostly because Im able to find my own stories within the gameplay and just fill in the gaps with headfanon. Like even when a game isn’t trying to tie its mechanics in with the narrative the mechanics in of themselves have a story to tell. The worst thing a game can do for me is evoke absolutely nothing.
Depends on the game (platformers don't necessarily need a good story for example, or tetris and terraria like you said), but for me it's definitely yes most of the time, a good story can elevate a game so much, for example in Chrono Trigger, my favorite game ever personally, Frog's theme (go listen to it by the way, you won't regret it) is really good but it would be just that without a story, however knowing Frog's backstory and his goals makes it more than just an amazing soundtrack, it made it become one of my favorite game music, which i also associate with my favorite character in the game. And that's just one example, there are so many games that I still remember BECAUSE they had an amazing story that made me excited to see what's next, a few examples are Ace Attorney, 999, Virtue's last reward, RDR2 (the game is amazing but I wouldn't have loved it as much if it had a shitty story), so yeah, i love good stories
Limbus is a game I pretty much only play for the plot and characters, gameplay is kinda easy. I do play many games for the gameplay too, but I like a mix of both.
I think the formula is really simple: characters + setting = story. If you have many characters and places in your game and you give name to them, it has to have a story. Minecraft doesn't need story because the only character in the game is you and some monsters/animals and the places are just natural biomes taken from real life. In the case of souls game, while there are many characters that has names and has relations with other characters, they are one dimensional. They all just want to stop you from getting to your goal. However, everyone starts paying attention when melina was introduced in elden ring because now we have a character that supports us, she brings another dimension into the game. So, I guess it's not just how many character you have but also how diverse your characters are. Story fails when they try to introduce many characters but all of them have the same goal, personality, and enemy
Sometimes you can have a story where the plot sucks, but all the other story pieces are excellent. Take Control (lol) for example, the main plot is weak but the story about the Oldest House and the Federal Bureau of Control really drags you in. The game takes a lot of inspiration from the SCP wiki, Warehouse 13, and House of Leaves which creates a lot of intrigue and curiosity about the setting and people.
Im a be honest bro i always go for the gameplay first, because thats the thing that i will do more, when it has a story is like a plus. Like goddamn that happen to me with PGR and Final Fantasy 15 i just go for 1 video cool video that i see on the internet and then try it out (if i can). But like you said i also dont even expect a story or even a good one i just want to play but just giving it a try to the story and going through the journey with the characters and how you grow an affection for them like damn its just amazing for me. Oh and dont get me started with the music in the videogames.
My first experience of library of ruina was on the switch, a console it DEFINITELY wasn’t optimized for. It still is one of my favorite games of all time, so that must say something about the story
Man i love monster hunter and minecraft but the moment i get bored i drop game for months and dont care at all while with limbus even after dropping it due to the foul accusations i would still have it on my mind and the moment i learned it was all fake information manipulation installed it the very same moment and GOD i enjoyed every second of Canto V and VI and now cant wait for VII, and yeah its painful knowing that is like one Canto every 6 months but dam is worth. A game with good gameplay is a fun time for the time you play it and thats it, a game with good story will be and overall good memory that may just change the way you see and value things.
I want to include Ace Combat into the bowl. This franchise released pretty much the similar jet fighter game you've seen since the PS1 days of "Air Combat", but just because it started off like a "flight sim" doesn't mean it can't have a story. In fact, the PS2 trio of this franchise was hailed as the best of the bests for not just the revised and refreshed gameplay, but also a damn well-written story and presentation of those stories through gameplay. The Unsung War specifically made up a fairy tale, and places the characters in the game to follow the sort of theme in it, and the game's sequel based itself on the legends of King Arthur and Spanish Flamenco. For a plane game. Even tho I play games for fun, and we should have fun playing games, I think games that can make me appreciate literature as a whole is more than welcomed.
I'll take this small chance to recomend Path to nowhere, it has a similar gameplay as Arknights since its a tower defense, but I really like the world, characters and story, but I rarely see people talking about it
My opinion is that story isn't necessary for me to enjoy a game, but it is one of the three pillars that hold my absolute favourite games above the rest of the rabble. The other two pillars are music and gameplay. Music that gets stuck in my head or that enhances critical moments is the key to me remembering the game fondly long after I've put it down, whereas the gameplay pillar is much broader - it just needs to be enjoyable enough to keep me engaged in the story.
Well it depends, you can have fun playing metal slug but i know that you probably dont know the story of it, you just shoot everything in your path, storytelling is just an additional thing to the game, like enter the gungeon where it justs tells you about a weapon to make it your objective ingame, rewarding with the characters story if you get able to do everything right
I've been putting up with Honkai Impact 3rd until recently only because the story in Part 1 was good. Now Part 2 happens, and I'm interested neither in this nor in other HoYo games (even though the worldbuilding is supposed to intertwine at some point, but not interesting stories intertwining still aren't interesting). On the other hand, the reason why I've played Library of Ruina, read Wonderlab, Distortion Detective, Leviathan, and now playing Limbus Company is because I've spoiled myself on the story of Lobotomy Corporation. What do you mean the player have learned all of this life lessons, applied them to, well, myself, and succeded at what seems to be literally impossible... only to find out that, as the last Zero Escape game puts it, "life is simply unfair"? AND we're continuing off of that?! That being said, I also play Factorio and Shapez 2, find me a story in that. ...But then the Factorio YTuber once said: "The presense of plot and backstory is why HuniePop has 6 times the reviews of Bejeweled 3". Hmmmmm...
might as well drop my personal answer to the question in the title here, enjoy reading a random greybeard’s ramblings short answer: Not always long answer: it’s all dependent on the context of the game, and to show this i might as well briefly mention how deep the story in two of my favorite games, Ruina and DRG, enhances the experience Ruina: I started playing for the sole reason that the gameplay looked fun (and i wanted a challenge), and was completely blindsided by the amazing story. The gameplay was ok in the early and midgame, but ended up being exactly what i was looking for with the endgame, and if it weren’t for the story, definitely wouldn’t have gotten to the endgame DRG: my personal favorite game of all time, and it’s mainly because of how fun it is. The lore is minimal, but efficient. Best example i can think of is Karl, a dwarf who is mentioned in only a couple of voice lines, yet in those voice lines it establishes his entire character, a legendary dwarf, idolized by all (with the possible exception of management), whose fate is currently unknown Ruina and DRG are close contenders for my favorite game, Ruina because of the story, and DRG because of the gameplay. In the end i do value a fun game more than a story driven one, but a good story can compensate for weaker gameplay thank you for reading this greybeard’s rambling, Rock and Stone
Perfect example for me is borderlands 3. the story was so abysmal for me that by the mid point of the game i just stopped playing it. which was a shame, because i love the borderlands series and its gameplay. it pisses me off to no end how the story was handled. so yes games do need a good story, or at least some semblance of decent writing.
Not needed exactly, but it can massively enhance a game, so usually yes. (However one of the best simple indies ive played (Mosa Lina) has absolutely zero lore or story and its still incredible.)
I think these days, narrative stories gives a lot more depth but are so well ignored because most people just feel like it is a waste of time or just doesn't give a fk about it. Therefore devs really just outright do things for the gameplay here and there. However, I still love the fact that games is another source of media for story adaptation. Overall, I'd say that games(Gacha, Open-world, and etc.) with lore potential needs a story but games made for rapid fun(Among us, Fall guys, and more fun games) doesn't need it to truly define it as agood.
As someone who has never touched Arknights but has mutuals who play it, god the worldbuilding looks insane. And here I am very much overthinking creating OCs because I want to situate them in a world that makes sense and have their backstories tied accordingly.
You could say that the gacha part of Limbus is what helps fund the studio to keep making the story, so the game part is still important to Limbus, in a way.
I know this is a bit off-topic, but I really hope you could respond Tsunul, and even others who have a similar opinion. You said, "there's a lot of shit I could talk about when it comes to the gameplay." I would genuinely like to hear it. And to preface: this isn't meant to be a "gotcha" moment, nor I am simply saying "skill issue". I speak sincerely when I say that I want to know the actual details of your perspective. Usually, all I can find online is assholery from every side, but I've watched your videos and understand that you can have a genuine conversation and respectfully disagree. So I would like to be able understand your position and I hope that others could understand mine as well. I've heard this sentiment before, that Limbus Company's gameplay is bad. But I think that just plain isn't true. You can not like the gameplay just because that is your taste, but most of the arguments I hear against limbus just aren't true. People describe the gameplay as "press P" then run the fight. Often, players will attempt the fight, see that the clashes read as struggling or neutral and run it anyways. Upon inevitably losing the clash, I've seen players simply reset and do it again until they get lucky. Few people try to even continue the fight, even though they have yet to of lost. Even more rarely do I see people attempt to consider other options such as defensive skills or simply taking hits. Another huge thing people won't consider is E.G.O., they are basically free clash wins with bonus effects. Why would we ignore the sin and damage type affinities? You can negate damage by 75% just with that. Just by considering the validity of taking hits, accepting losing clashes, and utilizing the aspects of individual kits and teams, the game opens and suddenly your replaying old fights purely for the gameplay. I myself really enjoy playing older fights with a tremor team, even though it isn't the best at winning raw clashes, thinking about balancing tremor with tremor bursts, not to mention the tremor types. I've also tried replaying the final fight of Canto 6 with a team that balances absolute dogshit clashes and resistances with the possession of two tanks that kinda fail as tanks; that was the best experience I've had with the fight (apart from the first time of course). This isn't just me saying "skill issue" or complaining about the fanbase; I just want people to consider first. Even if you fail, should you attempt to use or create new strategies, I sincerely believe that you will have fun. You don't have to be an ultra-sweaty gamer, just spare a thought for what your doing. All that I really want is people to enjoy the game that I enjoy. If you still don't like it: there is nothing wrong with having differing tastes. But please give it a chance first, because despite playing the whole game, many haven't. As for some of Tsunul's complaints that he mentions here. Nerfing fights to make them easier is a result of the attitude towards the gameplay. I think the nerfs shouldn't have happened, but that isn't a result of "bad gameplay" but a result of minimal effort. And I dislike using the word effort, because it really doesn't require true effort, just a modicum of planning ahead. Also, I did watch your first playthrough of the final fight I saw you reset in the same way I mentioned before, even with your "bullshit blitzkrieg". To me that says that even a simple team of good clashes required some strategy before the nerf. Such is why the nerf, unfortunately, came to be. P.S. Wild Hunt Heathcliff isn't a broken as he seems. I'm not really upset about this because I know not everyone attempts to solo fights, but as a solo I.D. he is only good. His kit is just very well suited for that specific fight and the unique passive he gets gives him a revive. Furthermore, he gains a significant boost from soloing because of the coffin stacks. So he is good, just not as good as that fight would have you believe, sort of like the Walpurgisnacht I.D.s.
The storytelling is more important imo. What is a good story if i can't be bothered to go through it? I can only roll my eyes so many times at attempts to make epic moments that fell short and just turned baffling or cringe.
![ATEEZ(에이티즈) - [GOLDEN HOUR : Part.2] Preview](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X4PfgRPBUVo/mqdefault.jpg)
There is another sweet detail that Limbus does to characters: IDs kits. Have we noticed that Gregor IDs nearly always aren't meant for clashing, and do much better when in backline or straightout on bench? That Hong Lu almost never has team synergy though performs outstanding as selfish unit?
NClair is peak for his skill descriptions and kit aswell. Losing sanity with each attack, Self destructive purge, gaining half sp on clash win called "mad flame... but also his defense skill "enough..." that gives back sanity. As if he briefly stopped. Maybe a moment of lucidity, or self-realization, but definitely something that his "broken self" gets pierced by
W corp Hong Lu is goated as a support unit tho?
@@kann4915 But he's near alone in that, too, and his speed is usually problem - or who the shield goes onto.
Project Moon: _make a wack-ass ID_
Project Moon fans: MASTERFUL GAMBIT DIRECTOR !!!
Yeah... Hong Lu, not really. K corp, W corp, Yuro.
>See the video
>Read the title
>"Yes"
>Leave
🫵 what are you doing scrounging around inside my mysterious-shack-in-grandpop's-backyard-full-of-random-bullshit tier skull like a racoon, bringing up some rusty thoughts, and then washing them in a puddle 🫵
*Bring me the horizon - Can you feel my heart.mp3*
*EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER*
Depends, does Fortnite need a good story? How about Minecraft? It kinda just depends on what the devs set out to achieve. RPGs/story-driven games need it, but games that want more emphasis on gameplay/action don’t need to worry about it as much
I mean it’s still important in some way in most games, but it can be given less focus depending on what the game is intended to be
It depends on what the game is about. Not everything needs a great story. Sometimes, a game can just be a game.
Honestly, I believe that it depends on the game. For example, sure, Yakuza has a fun gameplay. But I would've dropped it mid 0, if the story only existed to explain the gameplay.
100% 4 almost made me drop with the yap sesh in that one chapter with the bear I swear they weren’t cooking for shit
@@FinalslashesFrl the saejima plotlines had some very bad lows
17:17 Bait used to be believa... Holy shit is that the red mist?!!!!????
you should work for a recylce company even amy Schumer know to pick up new materials one in awhile you neanderthal
*sick guitar riff playing in background
*[BREAKING NEWS] The sleeper agents has gone wild!*
everyday i thank god that i don't shill my farvorite show to you brainlet
This place is nuts!
Arknights, PM and Persona games are all Nice gameplay wise with Raw visuals + great fucking stories.
Getting moved by the story, and changing how you feel while playing like how you mentioned "Do we have to fight this guy?", (5:27) or when you fight Roland in LOR. (Maybe Abit less feels for Lolan). Just showd how a story can actually impact the gameplay even if it doesn't physically change things ingame. Instead changing how you feel as the player.
W picks Tsunul, Speak yo shit!!
the fuck you mean "a bit less" yall mfs are actually going to make me download a god dammed TD game
Bro would love Armored core 6
I agree, Tsunul should play AC6.
scary.
fantasy.
Oh, I'm scary
So, I'm scary
All that I see
Now, I'm scary
All is fantasy (2×)
Minute of the end and does it still hurt?
PGR represents! If only chapters 1-8 wasn't such a slog people will see just how well written the stories are, chapter 15-18 and Cinder Burns alone are criminally kept in the dark
Not to mention that along with Chapter 1-8, the early-game progression of PGR is also a slog.
The only reason why I trudged along was because of the gameplay and the promise of a good story. Once I started Ch. 9, I saw the sparks of brilliance within it, so I kept on playing. Then I proceeded to read 4~ish years' worth of story in the course of 2 months.
Needless to say, I became a fan; however, I can't blame anyone else for not wanting to deal with the early-game funk. That combined with the astronomical amount of reading to catch up to the current patch, PGR's story is pretty hard to get into.
But hey, the gameplay is still fun.
Pretty Great Revolver?
For me, what made me play PGR is CW and Combat. Which I read the story , Chapter9 hit me not very hard because I was spoiled about Selena before that and it made me like the Dark of the story. Which is very good and very DARK after chapter9 But I didn't read more after reading Her Last Bow because it was as long as reading novels and I was not good at English Every time I read it took 4 to 8 hours. And it makes my head and eyes hot Which I am still playing Now it's a year and a half // Want to go back and read But I'm lazy
Punishing: Gray Raven mentioned!
I loved that game, very Nier-ish would be nice if the game was on Steam tho...(yes I know it has a pc launcher and yes I'm using it, but still, I would rather like if the game was released on Steam).
If not because of story, I don't think I can keep playing it but I actually play it sometimes. Now I play the pgr everyday.
Sometimes, you need a good, well-made story that you can play through. And sometimes you just wanna shoot hordes of bugs for fun.
Then you have Space Marine 2. WHICH COMBINES BOTH!
A story certainly helps flesh out a game and the characters in them; sometimes it's necessary, sometimes you can get away with loopholes, lack of depth and other stuff.
An important factor comes down to the player and how much they want to invest, how much they want to build by themselves too, after all the story is nothing but a tool. And let's us be honest some people have nothing but crumbs and yet the have whole fandoms around those games (the power of brainrot I guess)
Anyway, thanks once again for the video, Tsunul! It was interesting to watch ✨
One of my favorite games is the first No More Heroes. It could've easily wound up feeling like a DMC knockoff with dumbed down combat, but I think what really makes it special is how it characterizes its protagonist, Travis, through the gameplay. Like during the game's actual levels he's killing people by the dozens while spewing dumb one-liners like a bargain-bin DMC Dante, but what makes him a really interesting character is how he acts in the hub world. That, outside of the levels, when you're just doing menial odd jobs to get enough cash to pay for the RIGHT to enter the next level, Travis is completely silent, all his bravado completely vanishes as he meekly does whatever demeaning work he's asked to do. It paints the picture of a guy who's incredibly dissatisfied with the life he's currently living, constantly doing tedious dehumanizing work just to pay rent, and as such, you kind of get why he's pathetically killing all these people to try and become the world's greatest assassin and trying to mimic his favorite videogame and manga characters. That in the end he's a guy who just doesn't know how to give his life purpose and is desperately clinging to his fantasies in order to distract himself from how aimless he feels. I guess that's why I feel like grinding for cash in NMH1 is ESSENTIAL to the experience and why I don't think any of the sequels quite captured the magic of the first game (though with that said, I do still really like the sequels and Travis Strikes Again in particular, as I think it did a really amazing job building on Travis' character.)
While I think it's easy to say NMH's message is that "gamers are losers and they should go outside," imo the message feels more nuanced, that with how hard life is, it's understandable to want some escapism, and that escapism can even be good and healthy for you, but you need to recognize that consuming media isn't going to fix the underlying issues with your life, that even though it's scary, you need to face things sooner or later or else it will destroy you
I feel like I'm the only person who actually *enjoys* Limbus' gameplay at this point XD
But on the question of story in games, even in games that barely focus on story if at all i still greatly enjoy finding what crumbs there are, unless it's a sandbox like Terraria where i very much could not care less.
Etrian Odyssey for example is a series that's very light on story until the endgame, where for most of the game you're just one of many guilds with very little overarching plot, at the end many little plot threads from throughout the game come together for a genuinely engaging story.
And a fantastic story like Omori just sticks with you for life man, the medium of Video Games is honestly perfect for making stories feel more impactfull by having *you* be the one to move it forward, instead of just *watching* it move forward.
But i also seem to have *very* low standards for stories since i genuinely watched To Love Ru Darkness for the actual plot so take my take with a grain of salt i guess XD
I enjoy Limbus's Gameplay :3
I barely skip thread lux because I try new builds every day
Bruh wdym limbus gameplay is goated
Imo it's better than hsr gameplay
Yeah, don't understand why so many people don't enjoy Limbus's gameplay. It's honestly my favorite game to play. But then again I don't just run all S tier id's and actually try to put effort into interesting teams
@@R0se_Bulletsame I just set up my 7 status teams then when new things drop toss the new thing into one of my pre-existing teams or use one of the outher 13 teams while I do my 2 mds a day excluding MD reset day where I do 3
I love winrate!!!!
Putting my thoughts here:
As for the same reasons people like different things, games have different varieties of reaching those things. Dark souls if it was in a more direct format may possibly get more people interested in the lore and to a lot of people be an overall positive to the game. However, there is a market and a group of people who want it to be so unintuitive. Because both the developers and there being a subset of players that are interested in this type of story telling it’s a possible format for people then. The added benefit is that enjoying the story and or the gameplay aren’t bundled together, people can enjoy different things.
Something to keep in mind is that there is a scale of how direct storytelling is done. Elden ring and other from software games have no hand holding with the story and you must seek it out, and then there are games completely on the other side with hand holding and literally regurgitating the information sort of like how Genshin is.
Then there’s the other axis where how much story is actually there? Is there literally not story, pretty much no story, minimal story, a storyline, or is the story fully fleshed out?
4:15 "Waifus"
-Shows Husbando
"sometimes it takes a man to become best girl" - gigguk
He's so real for that.
I haven't seen the whole video yet but here's my take on the topic. I think games should be judged on what they're trying to do instead of a do not trying to do so if a game is trying to have a good story and the story is bad you should criticize it just like if the game has bad music. But if the game has no story or music at all you should not criticize it for the lack of those things unless the exclusion hinders the goal of the game.
Depending on game type. Story is not completely necessary.
But a good story, DOES enhance and enrich a game.
And a story can make people pick non meta choices over meta ones
True
When I saw the title, I was thinking Reverse 1999 was gonna be on the list as chapter 6 was craaazy, and Farewell Rayashki was absolutely beautiful imo. Although out of topic, but I love the effort Blue Porch put in it with various of characters with different accents and even speaking in their mother language (this is just me but I was shocked Satsuski's VA is both her ENG and JP), and Isolde's VA (still this is just me thing) does all the opera singing part (and I was assuming they used a singer to do the singing parts).
The story is the #1 most important factor in media that is non-interactive, such as reading a book or watching a movie.
However for games which are interactive, the #1 most important factor should be gameplay. If gameplay isn't well executed, it's very hard to succeed even if the story, music, visuals etc are fantastic. What would happen is you'd have people wishing they could just experience the great story without the horrible gameplay, which leads to not playing the game and instead going to youtube to watch someone else's playthrough of the game.
I am once again considering catching up reading Arknights story and reinstalling PGR.
My thoughts on the topic,
For me my favorite game moments are the ones I was the most emotionally invested in and/or ones where I overcame a huge challenge. Those tend to be the memories that remain and I value that.
Like my peaks are: Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red, Crosscode, Godhand, Armored Core Last Raven, DMC 3/5, Lobcorp, Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, both Milk VNs, and Sound Voltex.
Edit because I'm a fraud and remembered in the shower:
Putting all of Metal Gear in the Peak section, but specifically the final bosses of MGS3 and Peace Walker, holy shit man, I think about Heaven's Divide CONSTANTLY. I also replayed MGS1 4 times last year and MGS2 3 times(Streaming for friends on discord) and I really love every bit of dialogue in MGS1 specifically, I can almost quote that entire game it's engraved into me the same way lobcorp is.
Edit 2:
I MEAN THE FIGHT ON TOP OF THE THING AT THE END OF MGS4 FUCKKKK MAN
Not my favorite moments, but an interesting world really sticks to my brain as well. Stuff like Abe's Exodus(Pretty much all of the Oddworld games) and Project Moon's city setting have really glued to my brain since I first learned of them.(My imagination was going wild while reading distortion detective.)
Lastly, compelling likeable cute anime characters. I'll take your whole stock. My teen years were full of trying to find the perfect anime mmo/rhythm game.
Anyways another good video, always enjoy your stuff dude enjoy episode Aegis I know a lotta my friends are probably gonna play that.
The thing I love most about P3 is how it perfectly ties its gameplay systems with the themes of the story. One must remember that it was the first game in the series with the calendar/social link system and I don't think its coincidence that the main gameplay loop is all about time management and socializing, and then the main theme of the story is confronting mortality, how finite life is and how the human connections we make are ultimately what we leave behind. The game also sorta nudges its message into the player through gameplay subtext, as in, the literal worst thing you can do gameplay wise in P3 is wasting your free time doing nothing, not working on improving yourself, or bonding with someone, etc.
I think you can also stretch it a bit and say that the combat also reinforces that theme, even though Reload isn't that difficult and the series has always been a more casual SMT experience, the combat is still highly lethal and you can die in a single turn if you are not careful, which gives that feeling of frailty. I do admit its a stretch though lol
I am not good enough with words to explain it but P3 is also my favorite game of all time since I played the PS2 version years ago and the more I play the more I appreciate just how unique it is even when compared to the later entries in the series
I also really like P3 and what it represent and I appreciate reading your comment.
My conclusion: Though the story can highlight and make the game better, it’s not ESSENTIAL in ALL games.
Every game needs something that makes playing it worth your time, whether it’s heart-pounding gameplay or the feeing of triumph against all odds, a nice and cozy time, the dopamine rush of gambling for waifus or peak fiction. Some quality of the game needs to be worth YOUR time, and what that is solely depends on you.
And if it IS the story that’s that feature, then BOY is is going to be a spectacle.
Before I finished LoR, Gone Angels was just a cool and somber song.
Now after having finished LoR my mind goes into a near catatonic state because of everything I’ve now associated with that one song.
The fight, the second bad ending, the dialogue and all of my previous memories and experiences inside the Library. I get reminded of how I got to this point, and it just *DESTROYS* me (in a good way).
Basically what I’m saying is that Library of Ruina’s story resonates with me way too much and I love it to death
helps that LoR gameplay is much better than limbus, despite being its progenitor
Damn… maybe I oughta try Arknights and PGR. That stuff you showed do be looking kinda fire.
If youre up for a story, maybe try searching for Yumie's Lore Archive and if their vol.1 and Vol.2 summarization intrigued you, I'd suggest to read Vol.3 on your own either by playing or see the translation on youtube
30 seconds ago is crazy
2 minutes ago is wild
NOT HERE!!!!
same
41 minutes ago is insane
Holy shit, what happened to you meursault
ULTRAKILL is a good example of a game that doesn't delve very far into the story, it's mainly gameplay with a bit of story and lore sprinkled in, but aside from the hot robot angel I don't really see anyone playing to know what V1's backstory is, or to know what the lore of the bosses is, they mostly just care about the gameplay which is fun as hell. Then if you manage to sprinkle in story, that's a cherry on top, but isn't exactly needed, and if it's bad it could even bring down the gameplay itself. Overall it's a neat, very neat addition but it isn't necessary.
it seems like the basic answer, is that games are a unique medium, in which a narrative is just one of the ways you can 'play with' a game, engaging with its themes or characters or plot in the same way you'd engage with game mechanics. some find a game more compelling when it layers in the narrative elements, others don't resonate and engage with it separately
for me, Bloodborne is the perfect example. as my first true soulsborne, the horror of hiding from basic mobs, panic and frenzy of swinging wildly as a noob, and eventual memorization of locations and patterns, really put me in the shoes of the Hunter. I learned more to Survive. and as the Eldritch truth slowly revealed itself, as I gained Insight and learned about the Old Blood, Eyes on the Inside, the atmosphere and themes and even the music gained more meaning, like the music box lullaby or the Latin chanting in Yahar'gul. but I fully recognize that the gameplay is very much satisfying enough on its own, purely because its a masterfully created work of fiction and game design
how can we love the characters without a good story, why would we pull if we dont like the char at all
Sadly enough character design
It feels very shallow reason but thats how the gacha sphere works
I'm pretty sure 95% of Azur Lane players who didn't just pull for characters - even paid for skins - have never read the story.
PGR MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥
imo, i think games don't NEED a good story, but a good story can elevate the experience a lot. some players, like me, mostly play for the story and can enjoy games without being engaged in the story, but won't be as invested. and that's a valid way to play video games! other players, however, simply want to blow things up, or beat a boss, or shoot other players, or explore, or build, or countless other possibilities. and that is also a valid way to play video games! they're meant to be enjoyed, and different players will enjoy difrerent kinds of games. i personally enjoy story-heavy games, but while i do occasionally play visual novels, i like my games to have satisfying gameplay in addition to that. imo, video games work best when the story and gameplay work together cohesively (see twewy, my favorite video game of all time). but that's just my 2 cents!
I don’t see enough people mention PGR enough, even limbus gets mentioned way more!(Though I am a big PM fan as well.), probably because there’s quite a few chapters you need to play through to reach the given one!
There’s so many other great pieces of lore skipped here, but I’m absolutely positive PGR should pique your interest as it not only has great open-world(?) style gameplay, but also has great visuals as well as MUSIC!! It has some of the best MUSIC made by Vanguard. I’d recommend listening to NARWHAL and going from there!!!
13:47 laughing maniacally as i'm reminded of what it felt to fight xiao
17:40 gone angels was just as uncalled for
I literally finished The surviving Lucem in PGR recently and boy did it live up to the hype! It was so good that it's a struggle not to cry each episode! Everything about it was well done
in another timeline there is a tsunul who stuck with GFL and this video would've included GFL's extensive world building, entertaining characters, and of course existentialism
I mean, Having a story is definetley content to having a good game.
Like a bad game, can't be saved with an incredible story... (Maybe since Limbus Company exists.)
Having both a good game and a story that can make you feel/change your actions 5:40 ~, definitely makes a good game.
Limbus gameplay is not bad, it's just not a contender when you have library of ruina as its predecessor
@@Zawaito Lor animation was ass and only more interesting in attack, evade, defense trade/parry encounters. Limbus is objectively just better, doesnt mean its good tho
@@systemstress1262sounds like this gameplay genre is just not to your taste rather than being bad or anything.
The best example I can think of this is We Happy Few
Incredible story, terrible game.
@@animoacid Does Asura's Wrath count?
A good story always amplifies a game
I asked my friend why he keeps playing Nikke Goddess of Victory even though it's a fanservice game. He said he was hooked by the fan service first, then stayed for the story, lore, character designs, and personality. Nikke is good at making emotional moments and even though the gameplay isn't his favorite since he's more of an action game guy, he keeps playing it. He also said the community is nice and the devs listen to them.
"Tetris don't got a story"
Me: Flashbacks to Stickman tetris series(Shit was the goat)
You pointed out with drakengard 3 that bad gameplay can hold a good story behind. Take a look at the sequel, nier automata, how good gameplay can elevate an even greater story. If drakengard had that platinum/dmc gameplay it would be held as one of the greatest series of all time
Sure, but at least with drakengard 1 it was made on purpose to be ass because it suppose to convey the feeling that killing isn't fun(kinda like with lobcorp tho it has diffrent reason)
@@benaressu I thought it was mainly due to them trying to emulate dynasty warriors type of gameplay. Though that does make sense with how much yoko taro likes to have gameplay reflect the story and themes
@alexl3438 If I remember it's both, emulate dynasty warrior gameplay but also makes it purposely unenjoyable for the theme Taro was going for(also budget issue lol), that murdеrеrs don't deserve a happy end, hence each endings progressively harder to get. Making the gameplay better in the potential remake while will make the game more enjoyable, it will defeat it's original purpose, but idk.
I play limbus because i love hearing korean speaks on eldritch themed world
I think gameplay is more important than story when it comes to video games but to make the game memorable & timeless, it also needs to have a good story.
Amazing gameplay can grab you on its own and for some games it might be enough for their players to stick around, but for games that just have great to mediocre gameplay, the story is integral to make them standout from the crowd.
Perfect situation for this was showcased in the current discussion ongoing about Fire Emblem Engage vs Fire Emblem: Three Houses. To this day, the latter has people talk about its characters, story and themes. Engage on the other hand, while having the best gameplay in the series in years fails to stay as memorable for most people because they did not have a narrative to connect to, sales also reflect this, overall 3H sold better than Engage the last time Nintendo released data
I believe a game should have a good philosophical theme, a good world and a grand/enjoyable cast. The story can come after all those things. That being said, I still believe a game must have good gameplay and thats subjective but me personally I don't like visual novels and I like when a game has great gameplay! So what im trying to say is:
1. Gameplay
2. Cast/Characters
3. Themes
4. World Building
5. Story
6. Music
Or something like that. Anyways, great video!
Also Tsunul
Surviving Lucem was a great patch and all
But i think you MIGHT want to read over all of Selena related stories
Like, dear lord Kuro gave her a REALLY special case
Alas, it seems that all of Kuro's best written stories involve people suffering so much it's almost suffer pron.
@@FrizFrozIdk tho, even PGR still has Limbus level of "World is messed up, but good things can still exist"
If anything its WILD that PGR writers are the same people who made WuWa who is just.... why
@@RenoKyrie Not saying it doesn't, just that PGR's best chapters are also its most tragic ones. Survival Lucem, Cinder Burns, Selena Interlude and affection story (girl can't even get a break during her _affection_ story lmao) etc. The turning point for when PGR's story first started kicking it up a notch also involves us losing Lotus too.
17:16 turn into a WHAT
a game that held together by story
a game that held together by gameplay
a game that held together by lewdness.
I'ma gonna suck that Arknights worldbuilding like instant noodles at 4 a.m.
A couple things I'd like to say that weren't talk about in the video. One being attachment to the gameplay. You mentioned of how a good story can add to the enjoyment of segments of the gameplay via context but I'd also go so far as to say a good story can make you put up with the quirks of the gameplay to the point that you find those very quirks enjoyable in the same way of how you said that story could enhance your enjoyment of a song due to the feelings tied up in them. Second would be gameplay as a story itself. Even if something is not explicitly written out the gameplay itself can create personalized stories. Think of Lobotomy Corporation and how many players ended up having a reliable ace team of nuggets that basically became characters themselves that those players became attached to. Or to use the souls series as an example, you probably have a couple vivid memories of certain bosses or areas that you struggle with greatly, learning and growing before finally overcoming the obstacle. Even with a game series you explicitly said you don't go to for the story, you probably ended up having your own personalized story about overcoming odds through clever tactics, strengthening yourself to match the odds, sheer determination or some combination of these. Entirely emergent from the gameplay, but no less a story.
Yes, it does. A certain mobile game thrive alone from story is a proof of that (glancing at you, FGO)
Games are the sum of their parts, though not all parts are weighed as heavily. For example, most people will agree that gameplay is the most important and many will say graphics are the least. Regardless, they still impact the overall experience and product. I would put story on one of the more important branches as many people, myself included, will tolerate weaknesses in the other prongs if a story is good.
I think story also serves an important function of a game where it directly impacts a game's lasting power and memorability. Most games will not be Dark Souls or Tetris or Metroid, etc where their gameplay alone leaves an incredible impression personally or culturally (Not to mention the other things those games do). It would be nice if the world we lived in was like that but it isn't. As such, I think story and writing goes a long way to forming lasting memories and good impressions for games. I still see or go back to videos about games like Persona 4, Final Fantasy 7 (original), Firewatch, Ace Attorney, Limbus Company, etc and those are almost never about the gameplay (or the gameplay in a vacuum anyways).
It always depends but most often then not the game(s) will benefit from having a good story
As an example, i played Heroes of the Storm back in the day and there was this guy called Artanis in it, and i absolutely hated him, i thought he was just an unskilled piece of garbage and i didnt even want to touch him with a 10 feet pole
Then i played Starcraft: Legacy of the Void
And throughout the entire story i came to like him and his character so much that back in HOTS i started playing him not only regularly, but with a specific skin which was connected to the Legacy of the Void campaign and i just refused to swap to anythig else on him.
That campaign made let go of my blind hatered to the character completely and this is why having a good story can be most of the times be benefitial to the game, people like playing with characters and playing in worlds more that they made a connection with and come to understand
Persona 3 is my favorite game of all time as well. The story being a huge part of that. A game definitely doesn't have to have a good story in order to be a good game. Some games are enhanced by having a good story greatly, while in others it may feel unneeded. A game should focus on what it does best, and focus on that.. In the end games are a variety of experiences, ones that are not all the same and that's what makes them special.
Some games have a lot more debatablity on "needing a story" part. Does DOOM need a story? "Who the fuck cares here is a gun and go shoot shit i don't care" is what you would expect to hear from devs but they actually put in the effort to create some what good lore and a somewhat servicable story. However some games do not have that debatablity as I really don't think people would love persona as much if it had no story. Depends on the game really,
While I do love story and if a game has one and it doesnt grab me I might stop playing but of course there are games without story that do just as well. So yea it depends on the game.
Another great video :)
They don't need a good story but if they do have one it makeit stick in people's minds a hell of a lot more than otherwise
out there, there is a world where hypergryph decided to make an open world game instead of hoyoverse
i wish to visit that universe
(yes i know endfield exists (maybe) but that doesnt take place in the same place so doesnt count)
oh and great video by the way! subbed!
To me, it's almost always both aspects of gameplay and narrative building (be it lore or story to environmental world-building) complimenting each other.
It's not a question of does one need the other because either would always exist by nature of most video games save for some designed to be solely for gameplay like Tetris.
I do prefer games that has more fleshed-out world-building or lore despite not having a concrete story. And that's the reason I'm not fond of most survival games (w.g. valheim, no man's sky) despite having great gameplay, as a lover of single-player games.
By nature, one cannot trutly separate the intangible that is lore and story to the tangible that is gameplay. Rven Doom has a story and lore either implicitly or explicitly shown.
It's like asking if technicality in music more important than the emotion it tried to convey. It's a moot question because regardless of what you believe, music will trigger some sort of human reaction even the absurd genres like sound poetry.
Take PGR for instance, the gameplay is enough for me to play it but I honestly wouldn't play it if the story isn't good.
One example I always go to for games not needing stories is any monster hunter game. There's alot of lore and worldbuilding through the monsters' designs and fights, but in terms of a narrative, there isn't much to write home about. It makes sense since the "villains" are just big dangerous animals going about their life and just happening to pose a threat to the people or ecosystem at the end of the day. The gameplay loop just carries the game and fulfills all I really need out of it, and that is much more than enough.
Tsunul upload, life good
For me, it's more a question of if a game needs a good story to be entertaining. Mario games typically don't need a good story to be entertaining, although I certainly enjoy their RPG titles more than their platformers. On the other hand, if a game is a genre I normally dislike such as, say, a deckbuilder game, they had better have a good or enjoyable story to keep my interest as I struggle through the system.
I'm suddenly reminded to play Persona 3 FES brb
Chaos Child mentioned!! I've only gotten the normal ending but it's definitely a top-5 for me too!
PGR MENTIONED!!! RAHHHH
Admittedly for me its kinda weird because a lot of the time even when a game is poorly written I can have a lot of fun with them. Mostly because Im able to find my own stories within the gameplay and just fill in the gaps with headfanon. Like even when a game isn’t trying to tie its mechanics in with the narrative the mechanics in of themselves have a story to tell. The worst thing a game can do for me is evoke absolutely nothing.
Depends on the game (platformers don't necessarily need a good story for example, or tetris and terraria like you said), but for me it's definitely yes most of the time, a good story can elevate a game so much, for example in Chrono Trigger, my favorite game ever personally, Frog's theme (go listen to it by the way, you won't regret it) is really good but it would be just that without a story, however knowing Frog's backstory and his goals makes it more than just an amazing soundtrack, it made it become one of my favorite game music, which i also associate with my favorite character in the game.
And that's just one example, there are so many games that I still remember BECAUSE they had an amazing story that made me excited to see what's next, a few examples are Ace Attorney, 999, Virtue's last reward, RDR2 (the game is amazing but I wouldn't have loved it as much if it had a shitty story), so yeah, i love good stories
If creators of arknights had some passion for their story and world, they wouldn't throw all of it out in the next game
Limbus is a game I pretty much only play for the plot and characters, gameplay is kinda easy.
I do play many games for the gameplay too, but I like a mix of both.
I fr though it was a vn the first time I heard about it
I think the formula is really simple: characters + setting = story. If you have many characters and places in your game and you give name to them, it has to have a story. Minecraft doesn't need story because the only character in the game is you and some monsters/animals and the places are just natural biomes taken from real life. In the case of souls game, while there are many characters that has names and has relations with other characters, they are one dimensional. They all just want to stop you from getting to your goal. However, everyone starts paying attention when melina was introduced in elden ring because now we have a character that supports us, she brings another dimension into the game. So, I guess it's not just how many character you have but also how diverse your characters are. Story fails when they try to introduce many characters but all of them have the same goal, personality, and enemy
Games do not NEED a good story, keyword being *need*
Its almost always a net positive depending on the type of game tho
it depends. some people don't like reading and just like the gameplay. i honestly like story so I can push my brainrot further.
Sometimes you can have a story where the plot sucks, but all the other story pieces are excellent. Take Control (lol) for example, the main plot is weak but the story about the Oldest House and the Federal Bureau of Control really drags you in. The game takes a lot of inspiration from the SCP wiki, Warehouse 13, and House of Leaves which creates a lot of intrigue and curiosity about the setting and people.
Great use of Close in the Distance, my man.
Im a be honest bro i always go for the gameplay first, because thats the thing that i will do more, when it has a story is like a plus. Like goddamn that happen to me with PGR and Final Fantasy 15 i just go for 1 video cool video that i see on the internet and then try it out (if i can). But like you said i also dont even expect a story or even a good one i just want to play but just giving it a try to the story and going through the journey with the characters and how you grow an affection for them like damn its just amazing for me. Oh and dont get me started with the music in the videogames.
My first experience of library of ruina was on the switch, a console it DEFINITELY wasn’t optimized for.
It still is one of my favorite games of all time, so that must say something about the story
Man i love monster hunter and minecraft but the moment i get bored i drop game for months and dont care at all while with limbus even after dropping it due to the foul accusations i would still have it on my mind and the moment i learned it was all fake information manipulation installed it the very same moment and GOD i enjoyed every second of Canto V and VI and now cant wait for VII, and yeah its painful knowing that is like one Canto every 6 months but dam is worth.
A game with good gameplay is a fun time for the time you play it and thats it, a game with good story will be and overall good memory that may just change the way you see and value things.
I want to include Ace Combat into the bowl. This franchise released pretty much the similar jet fighter game you've seen since the PS1 days of "Air Combat", but just because it started off like a "flight sim" doesn't mean it can't have a story. In fact, the PS2 trio of this franchise was hailed as the best of the bests for not just the revised and refreshed gameplay, but also a damn well-written story and presentation of those stories through gameplay. The Unsung War specifically made up a fairy tale, and places the characters in the game to follow the sort of theme in it, and the game's sequel based itself on the legends of King Arthur and Spanish Flamenco. For a plane game.
Even tho I play games for fun, and we should have fun playing games, I think games that can make me appreciate literature as a whole is more than welcomed.
The deep explanation, the attention to detail
My god he even played destiny 2
Tsunul: Yes, I used to be a Destiny player. How did you know?
Me: I didn't, but now I know
I'll take this small chance to recomend Path to nowhere, it has a similar gameplay as Arknights since its a tower defense, but I really like the world, characters and story, but I rarely see people talking about it
17:20 holy shit is it color fixer?!?!?!?!??
oh new video, i just came in the right time.
My opinion is that story isn't necessary for me to enjoy a game, but it is one of the three pillars that hold my absolute favourite games above the rest of the rabble. The other two pillars are music and gameplay. Music that gets stuck in my head or that enhances critical moments is the key to me remembering the game fondly long after I've put it down, whereas the gameplay pillar is much broader - it just needs to be enjoyable enough to keep me engaged in the story.
Thank you for not using any Mod during the DMC footage, it helps to respect a story
Well it depends, you can have fun playing metal slug but i know that you probably dont know the story of it, you just shoot everything in your path, storytelling is just an additional thing to the game, like enter the gungeon where it justs tells you about a weapon to make it your objective ingame, rewarding with the characters story if you get able to do everything right
2 of my favorite childhood games are essentially polar opposites on this spectrum in Bastion and Castle Crashers
I've been putting up with Honkai Impact 3rd until recently only because the story in Part 1 was good. Now Part 2 happens, and I'm interested neither in this nor in other HoYo games (even though the worldbuilding is supposed to intertwine at some point, but not interesting stories intertwining still aren't interesting). On the other hand, the reason why I've played Library of Ruina, read Wonderlab, Distortion Detective, Leviathan, and now playing Limbus Company is because I've spoiled myself on the story of Lobotomy Corporation. What do you mean the player have learned all of this life lessons, applied them to, well, myself, and succeded at what seems to be literally impossible... only to find out that, as the last Zero Escape game puts it, "life is simply unfair"? AND we're continuing off of that?!
That being said, I also play Factorio and Shapez 2, find me a story in that. ...But then the Factorio YTuber once said: "The presense of plot and backstory is why HuniePop has 6 times the reviews of Bejeweled 3". Hmmmmm...
Battle Cats story is the Minecraft credits thrown at you like 6 times. Yet i put like 350 hours in the game in 2 months. So no.
might as well drop my personal answer to the question in the title here, enjoy reading a random greybeard’s ramblings
short answer: Not always
long answer: it’s all dependent on the context of the game, and to show this i might as well briefly mention how deep the story in two of my favorite games, Ruina and DRG, enhances the experience
Ruina: I started playing for the sole reason that the gameplay looked fun (and i wanted a challenge), and was completely blindsided by the amazing story. The gameplay was ok in the early and midgame, but ended up being exactly what i was looking for with the endgame, and if it weren’t for the story, definitely wouldn’t have gotten to the endgame
DRG: my personal favorite game of all time, and it’s mainly because of how fun it is. The lore is minimal, but efficient. Best example i can think of is Karl, a dwarf who is mentioned in only a couple of voice lines, yet in those voice lines it establishes his entire character, a legendary dwarf, idolized by all (with the possible exception of management), whose fate is currently unknown
Ruina and DRG are close contenders for my favorite game, Ruina because of the story, and DRG because of the gameplay. In the end i do value a fun game more than a story driven one, but a good story can compensate for weaker gameplay
thank you for reading this greybeard’s rambling, Rock and Stone
Reverse: 1999!
Perfect example for me is borderlands 3. the story was so abysmal for me that by the mid point of the game i just stopped playing it. which was a shame, because i love the borderlands series and its gameplay. it pisses me off to no end how the story was handled. so yes games do need a good story, or at least some semblance of decent writing.
Not needed exactly, but it can massively enhance a game, so usually yes. (However one of the best simple indies ive played (Mosa Lina) has absolutely zero lore or story and its still incredible.)
yes, they do. it's a must. end of discussion...
Fate Grand Order - peak story
Only reason it is still in top 10 gacha games even in 2024
A story can either sour or improve your experience of the game so id say yes games even if they dont need a story they cam be so much better with one
Tsunul is a Chaos Child fan?! Brooo let's gooo
I think these days, narrative stories gives a lot more depth but are so well ignored because most people just feel like it is a waste of time or just doesn't give a fk about it.
Therefore devs really just outright do things for the gameplay here and there.
However, I still love the fact that games is another source of media for story adaptation.
Overall, I'd say that games(Gacha, Open-world, and etc.) with lore potential needs a story but games made for rapid fun(Among us, Fall guys, and more fun games) doesn't need it to truly define it as agood.
I am at the point where I don’t care about video game stories most of the time. It usually bogs the game down and makes it a chore to get through.
As someone who has never touched Arknights but has mutuals who play it, god the worldbuilding looks insane. And here I am very much overthinking creating OCs because I want to situate them in a world that makes sense and have their backstories tied accordingly.
You could say that the gacha part of Limbus is what helps fund the studio to keep making the story, so the game part is still important to Limbus, in a way.
I know this is a bit off-topic, but I really hope you could respond Tsunul, and even others who have a similar opinion. You said, "there's a lot of shit I could talk about when it comes to the gameplay." I would genuinely like to hear it. And to preface: this isn't meant to be a "gotcha" moment, nor I am simply saying "skill issue". I speak sincerely when I say that I want to know the actual details of your perspective. Usually, all I can find online is assholery from every side, but I've watched your videos and understand that you can have a genuine conversation and respectfully disagree. So I would like to be able understand your position and I hope that others could understand mine as well.
I've heard this sentiment before, that Limbus Company's gameplay is bad. But I think that just plain isn't true. You can not like the gameplay just because that is your taste, but most of the arguments I hear against limbus just aren't true.
People describe the gameplay as "press P" then run the fight. Often, players will attempt the fight, see that the clashes read as struggling or neutral and run it anyways. Upon inevitably losing the clash, I've seen players simply reset and do it again until they get lucky. Few people try to even continue the fight, even though they have yet to of lost. Even more rarely do I see people attempt to consider other options such as defensive skills or simply taking hits. Another huge thing people won't consider is E.G.O., they are basically free clash wins with bonus effects. Why would we ignore the sin and damage type affinities? You can negate damage by 75% just with that.
Just by considering the validity of taking hits, accepting losing clashes, and utilizing the aspects of individual kits and teams, the game opens and suddenly your replaying old fights purely for the gameplay. I myself really enjoy playing older fights with a tremor team, even though it isn't the best at winning raw clashes, thinking about balancing tremor with tremor bursts, not to mention the tremor types. I've also tried replaying the final fight of Canto 6 with a team that balances absolute dogshit clashes and resistances with the possession of two tanks that kinda fail as tanks; that was the best experience I've had with the fight (apart from the first time of course).
This isn't just me saying "skill issue" or complaining about the fanbase; I just want people to consider first. Even if you fail, should you attempt to use or create new strategies, I sincerely believe that you will have fun. You don't have to be an ultra-sweaty gamer, just spare a thought for what your doing. All that I really want is people to enjoy the game that I enjoy. If you still don't like it: there is nothing wrong with having differing tastes. But please give it a chance first, because despite playing the whole game, many haven't.
As for some of Tsunul's complaints that he mentions here. Nerfing fights to make them easier is a result of the attitude towards the gameplay. I think the nerfs shouldn't have happened, but that isn't a result of "bad gameplay" but a result of minimal effort. And I dislike using the word effort, because it really doesn't require true effort, just a modicum of planning ahead. Also, I did watch your first playthrough of the final fight I saw you reset in the same way I mentioned before, even with your "bullshit blitzkrieg". To me that says that even a simple team of good clashes required some strategy before the nerf. Such is why the nerf, unfortunately, came to be.
P.S. Wild Hunt Heathcliff isn't a broken as he seems. I'm not really upset about this because I know not everyone attempts to solo fights, but as a solo I.D. he is only good. His kit is just very well suited for that specific fight and the unique passive he gets gives him a revive. Furthermore, he gains a significant boost from soloing because of the coffin stacks. So he is good, just not as good as that fight would have you believe, sort of like the Walpurgisnacht I.D.s.
The storytelling is more important imo. What is a good story if i can't be bothered to go through it? I can only roll my eyes so many times at attempts to make epic moments that fell short and just turned baffling or cringe.