No one: Julia: If Penelope has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Penelope has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Penelope has only one fan then that is me. If Penelope has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Penelope, then I am against the world.
I actually enjoyed Season 2 more than the first, a rarity for me. Kate and Anthony just had more chemistry compared to Simon and Daphne, and the "Enemies to Lovers" plot is far more compelling to me than the "Fake relationship pact inevitably becomes real."
i feel completely the opposite - i just really don’t buy that anthony is attracted to any of the girls in the show. i don’t know why, but it just made me uncomfortable. also i couldn’t help but just read anthony as deeply misogynistic and i don’t know why kate was even attracted to him. i watched for eloise and theo
I second the chemistry thing.I didn't like season 1 that much but I adore season 2. I think it's because I feel like the actress of played Daphne came off too meek/unsure and was less interesting. The actress in season 2 seemed much more confident and made Daphne more interesting as a character than I read her as in season 1. The actress who played Kate seemed much more confident and that helped really sell a lot of the interactions between her and Anthony.
The book isn’t always better, and people only think it is because they don’t understand the nuances of switching mediums, and Bridgerton is a really good case study of this phenomenon.
I've never read these books (or honestly got very far in the series but I like watching people talk about it) The Notebook is my personal example of this.
So far this series is a way more appealing adaptation and a good case for not being married to a book. Because even the changes that annoy me...are just better narratively for a tv show.
Alot of people hated Anthony before his season too and now everyone is Gaga for him. Sometimes you need to bring characters to their lowest so you can bring them up to their best.
I saw one guy say “people don’t want an adaptation of their book, they want a dramatization” and some book fans just won’t admit that some book plots, themes, and ways of storytelling do not make a good tv show
My personal problem with the Bridgerton fandom is that their expectation is Wattpad. Like any character somehow being complex and having real problems automatically makes them annoying. Two of my favorite scenes of the whole show were the fight between Eloise and Penelope and where Edwina blows up on Kate. There were actual stakes: both pairs had an incredibly strong relationship, REAL reasons to be upset with each other while also understandable reasons on why they acted the way they did. But I guess the fans would rather see corny lines between the main couple. But also I'm in the minority who preferred the main couple of S1 but the side plots of S2.
i've seen people claim that since she is a quarter white, she must feel herself superior to kate. instead of just being heartbroken for the first time in her life and angry that her sister Lied to her
@@sauleiwanderapfelstrudel : Because she is a "quarter white" she MUST feel superior. Wow white supremacy even in the Bridgerton world???? Did the sister "lie" to her, or did she "withhold" information from her???
@@rosyreverie is it? they are from India, and the queen being Black is a big part of the show. By colourblind do u mean racism doesn't exist? I thought lady Danberry and Simon have a talk abt it?
I agree with you. I think most people would act the same way as Edwina did in her situation. Edwina and Kate have a beautiful relationship and I can't help seeing Edwina like my own sister, who I'd do anything to protect and sacrifice my desire for.
I understand someone thinking Penelope is a bad person for her actions, but I will never understand anyone claiming that she’s a bad character. Penelope is so interesting!! She’s incredibly multifaceted. She’s shy and kind while also having the capacity to be searingly mean and selfish. She’s incredibly observant and probably the smartest character on the show (sorry Eloise, you’re great too!) And yes, she’s a morally grey character, but how does that not make her better?? It is so interesting to watch an otherwise soft-spoken character make big, controversial decisions. Do people just want protagonists who always do the right thing all the time, never making any mistakes or bad decisions? I just think Penelope is probably the most layered and nuanced character in the show and she did that as a supporting character. I’d love to see what they do with her character as a lead!
Yes! I also feel that Lady Featherington had an ebb and flow of completely terrible to maybe awful but for the right reasons. Overall, I think the featheringtons story line is interesting in contrast with the Bridgertons. And they are very multi layered!
This! And I thought we liked it when characters who left in the background because they are more soft spoken or passive start to find their voice?? I thought we were along for the journey because growth is messy and interesting? I thought we loved the Lexi's of the world
Also, I think they are setting up a more interesting conflict between her and Colin. Spoiler What if marina dies during their season, seeing the regret Colin already has, given Penelope’s role in her fate… drama.
"Do people just want protagonists who always do the right thing all the time" given how almost nonexistent these characters are, and how they are almost always hated and called "boring" I would say no, people don't want them either. It's like you can never win. 🤷♀ Personally, I want more genuinely kind and well-meaning (but still flawed and complex) characters.
like a very large part of kate's character unlike daphne IS her backstory. she stepped in as the head of the house when her father died, she raised her half-sister to be a perfect heir (by the way if i did all that work in the middle of early 1800s india and all i got was I'm Only Your HALF-Sister i would be way more pissed than kate was) she dragged everyone to london to grab her sister a suitor, she's the main spur of the story. not having a single flashback of her life in india (or even specifying where or WHAT in india she's planning on returning to!!!!) is a detriment to the story. although it DOES mean we don't have to see any racially insensitive caricatures so it's probably for the best anyway great vid i agree 1000%, the problem isn't the amount of kate vs anybody else but that the showrunners quickly ran out of things for her to do after her relationship with anthony came to light
i do agree on that fact that they should've gone more into detail in Kate's backstory (a flashback episode dedicated to her like Anthony's would've been interesting) but I do remember her saying once or twice that she was going to return to India to become a governess or something similar? I could be wrong (or I could be interpreting your statement incorrectly) but I do remember her saying something about that while she was on the boat with Anthony's Oxford friend.
@@barbaraniven5773 good point! i wasn't paying 100% attention to that scene. i was just bringing it up to show how every countryside and suburb in england has a name where India (10x the size of england) in the last couple of episodes was referred to only as... India. just interesting how non-european countries get sidelined in mainstream media is all, not really a bridgerton-specific fault just a general trend here in the west
in edwina's defense she just found out her sister and fiance were having an emotional affair behind her back on the day of her wedding. it was still wrong to say but after the shitshow she just went through i don't exactly fault her for being petty.
I totally agree with your points. Also, like when Lady Danbury asked Kate if there was someone back home she had not said anything about? I was like "Oh shit! that would be so good, especially since they made her older in the series." Not doing that, along with not utilizing Mr. Dorsett to twist the jealousy knife into Anthony gave me all the evidence I needed that there are NO writers in that room of Hispanic origin, because those two things alone would have added delicious layers of drama.
@@neosaneo2 No don’t worry I wasn’t trying to attack you or anything and I completely agree that they’re essentially making all of South Asia a monolith (especially because I’ve heard that ‘didi’ and ‘bon’ are from the wrong language or dialect.) Also you’re completely right about non-european countries - exoticism sucks
Don't jump Ariana; it is all make-believe and not worth losing your life over. Take time and go write your own make-believe love story, and write it like you would like it to end.
Well I believe that Netflix signed a contract with Julia Quinn that made them agree that all the book ships have to be endgame in the show as well, so I don’t think they have a choice to make them not be together
@@optimysticpeaches I think it's fine that Eloise and Philip end up together, as long as they make him the complete opposite of his book character. I really liked the season 2 scene of him and Colin discussing their travels, and I would love it if he actually becomes close friends with all of the Bridgertons.
@@maaike4 yeah I don’t know much about Philip except what this video has said, I’m only on the first book, but I think that based on the character development of all the other characters, I’m sure they could turn him around hopefully. I’m guessing marina is gonna have to die at some point in the next two seasons though for that to happen. She could also just be somehow caught up in a marriage with him and then theo is her side chick or something😂
Even with Kate and Anthony’s story, I found the changes they made were absolutely fantastic! 1) Taking away the repetition of the forced marriage 2) Changing the trauma bonding library scene 3) Removing/Changing any non-consensual stuff/violence (“I will stop” “Do _not_ stop”) 4) Changing Anthony’s reasons for wanting to get married 5) Actually making Edwina a conflict for Kate (Kate sacrificing Anthony for her sister did SO much more to explain her character to the audience than simply telling us that she sacrifices everything for her) 6) Kate actually being secure in herself when it comes to Anthony
I agree with most except Edwina. It was just too much drama and made the two leads look like terrible people. Plus gave Edwina much more screentime and the leads are already suffering from not enough screentime.
I am glad you have the same level of patience of fans going "I wish the male lead got more scenes of him being a borderline r*pist" as I do. Which is None sjsjjsks But also god I love when people decide to pit women (ESPECIALLY women of color) against each other. Edwina is such a necessary part of the story and if you don't love her then you don't love Kate I said what I said.
Was Edwina perfect? No. Do I want to watch a show about perfect people being perfect? Also no. I barely registered Edwina in my memories of having read the book, honestly. There's literally nothing to defend in her; someone could have painted "rah-rah, go Kate and Anthony, love you together!" on the wallpaper and it would have served the same purpose. Show Edwina was a bumpy ride at times but at least she took us for a ride! Book Edwina never even left the garage!
I read The Viscount Who Loved Me after season 2 expecting a rivals to lovers romance between equals, but instead it was about a violent man provoking and assaulting an insecure young girl. I still liked some of it, but I don't understand people who prefer the book.
THIS!!! I was listening to the book while driving and I was literally screaming from frustration during the scene of their 1st kiss - he was so violent.
@@juliacudney Yeah, I understand. And on a more positive note, I absolutely love Penelope (she's my favorite character even)! You are not alone when it comes to defending her 😊
THAT IS MY REASONING BEHIND LOVING PENELOPE. she is complicated! she is hypocritical! but shes also SMART and LOVING and FUNNY and LOYAL (yes loyal she saved eloise and the bridgertons from social destitution argue with the wall) she is so beautifully HUMAN! the most realistic character julia quinn has created but of course people just reduce her to bitter and mean :D
I don't get the Penelope hate. Like...Eloise is not about to go be with Theo y'all, she's an indoor cat. I know the actor is cute, but the character was crusty and condescending. It was not vibes. Pen saved her friends ass from eating potatoes and raising a kid with rickets in a shack.
More or less ? I personally don’t like Penelope for most of the reasons you’ve stated, because I prefer human character who either choose to be good (like Edwina) or to be buck wild and like, CRUEL. Not that wishy-washy hypocritical nonsense. Ik it’s dumb but I just cannot stand people like her both in real life and in fiction 😅 But I do think your reasoning is a 100% valid ! The only thing though is that she isn’t really the most realistic character Julia Quinn as ever created, because she’s nothing you described previously in the book. In the books, Whistledown isn’t mean and only roasts people on fashion choices, she never gets involved with the Queen and therefore never “saves” the Bridgertons from ruin, besides lying to Eloise to keep her secret she’s a sweetheart all the way through her book. So yeah give credit to the writers, not to Julia on this one !
@@happyjellycatsquid that is true, the writers def changed a lot about her lw journey but i also find penelope so relatable in the books. her self doubts, her relationship with her mother etc. imo the featheringtons are like this middle ground between the perfect loving bridgertons and the really evil parents like simons dad, sophies family, etc, so thats kinda what i meant in that penelope is so relatable in how she sees herself and the world around her. and remember penelope is 18, hypocrisy is annoying but everyone does it, it’s human nature
@@emmaline88 Im also 18, I don’t think her age justify being a vile person ahah. I do like Penelope in the book, she’s sweet but no a doormat to Collin’s bs ahah
@@FreyaEinde Eloise absolutely was carrying the Ivory Tower torch this season (I guess the "but how do stove work?" moment was S1's big stand-out bit of pampered idiocy, outside of "but how do sperm work?" Both of which would require servants to resolve.) From the first moment she turned up and shoved her nose in the air and started spewing her usual brand of "Well Actually...Women are People But of Course You've Never Thought of That Before, Pea-Brain," I felt she had to have SOME kind of comeuppance if she expected to dip a toe into the waters of the underclass and decided to judge Theo by the same metric she judges the wealthy and aristocratic men in her orbit. Like, does she think the printer's apprentice squandered his opportunity to go to university, which every boy must get simply for being a boy? Misogyny could take other forms in lower classes, of course; but so much of her focus with Theo is debating ideas about education and liberation and not once does Eloise even seem to consider very thoroughly that equal access to that is not solely divided along lines of gender, and not also lines of class/wealth. And he fired back in kind, and she kind of needed to be knocked down a peg or two (but was she, really, even?) but the antagonism did not...make me love them, because it came out of utter inequality in their dynamic. She was just too ready to resent him and he returned the favour and I'm ready to call it quits with the newsie. I absolutely hate Sir Phillip as he's written, don't get me wrong; but Theo is nowhere near an adequate replacement hero and Eloise is neither ready for nor deserving of the love of anybody in the lower classes.
I'm not all the way through the video yet, but I passed the threshold of the spreadsheet and felt like I was going to explode. I'm a commercial romance writer, and I also write it in my spare time. When I write romance for a company, I inevitably get the same instructions: no side characters with plots, the main female isn't allowed to speak overly much unless she's the love INTEREST (so, if the Bridgerton novels were from a Bridgerton-only perspective, Daphne wouldn't be allowed to talk but Kate would be), and everything has to be reminding the reader that the two love interests are GOING to pound town, all for the benefit of this enormously loud fraction of fans. I agree wholeheartedly with Julia when she said these people would be the WORST showrunners. I MUCH preferred season two, because I bought in to the romance more! I liked all the deviations for the Featheringtons being shady and the actual genuine interaction between Bridgerton siblings that wasn't just Anthony yelling at Daphne. If these fans want to watch two people have sex to the exclusion of all other plot and characters, there's an entire industry out there waiting for their patronage. Just because a piece contains sex doesn't mean that it has to do so to the detriment of everything else. TLDR if you don't like porn with plot, just go watch porn. It will not only improve fandom spaces, but writer's rooms as well.
So.... The things the company is telling you are the EXACT REASONS I don't read romance. I want a well-fleshed out story with interesting characters who feel real, and that means they have to have relationships and interactions outside of the love interest.
@@elle8786 It's a very common sentiment and I feel like I should clarify that I'm usually on the very cheap end of content: I by no means write for anything on the scale of netflix lol. When it comes to quick money making through content, though, these exact types of people will pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to read exactly what they want. Think After and Fifty Shades: side characters are props for the romance or non-existent, main characters get to passively observe a much more interesting love interest...it's a huge bummer to write a whole B plot that gets cut because it isn't main couple material.
I agree with you so much about Penelope. I think so much of the hate for her character is rooted in audiences refusing to see the stakes for her as Lady Whistledown. A lot of people think she’s just being Lady Whistledown for fun, when in reality it’s implied that her mom does not care about marrying her off - instead, her mom is actively ensuring that she doesn’t find a husband by not caring about her success in the marriage market and by sticking her in god awful dresses. Her work as LW is in many ways a means of having an income in case she doesn’t find a husband. And that raises the stakes but also humanizes her a lot more. But because many vocal fans have expressed their hatred of subplot since s1, we can’t see those stakes more explicitly played out on screen. If it were up to me, I’d ask for more Penelope because she really deserves and her character is the most interesting out of the entire cast line up!!!
not only did i really like and appreciate the changes they made to The Viscount Who Loved Me (the bee scene ended up being one of my favorite scenes too! as opposed to how pretty awful it was in the book), the relief i felt when marina was still alive and theo was introduced was enormous cause im hoping eloise ends up with a love interest who actually deserves her
Yes, but theo should have been a woman (Not that many male feminists in the beginning and i think that it is kinda cringe of the showrunners to force heterosexual romance on eloise if they are going to change her whole story anyway) and i will die on this hill haha
Yeah no, I think the writers were so lazy in giving us an early 19th century male feminist (who apparently writes a pamphlet on it?) and not delving into any of his reasoning and motivation beyond “he likes Eloise but he’s rightly concerned about the social class difference” like honestly he had the potential to be such an interesting character and they did nothing with it. Also yeah, queer Eloise should be canon!!
i definitely am hoping for a lot more of a deep dive into the eloise, theo romance in the upcoming seasons. also i've seen many people want a queer storyline for eloise, which of course i would love. but man i really need one for benedict, i mean i feel like in the show at least there seemed to be more moments to build off of that so far.
Kate& Anthony had so much chemistry, it baffles me people can’t see it. Like the moment they met, you could feel it lol. Do viewers need everyone to always say their feelings aloud to understand the longing looks and slight touches that a ship has for each other ?? It was so obvious
No, for some people, chemistry = sex scenes. That's what it all comes down to. Doesn't matter that the main leads are dead behind the eyes, if they have sex, that's chemistry to them.
@@justiulia94 Yeah, I blame western TV. Been into Asian TV for years, and while they have more misogyny at least they still know what feelings are. Here love was replaced by lust and sex. Hopefully we see more of shows like S2. It's refreshing!
Their chemistry was one of the most insane I have ever seen! Like their whole dynamic in the series, personality-wise (and true to the time period) is the concept of self-restraint. Idk, viewers tend to forget that this was a different time, it was not just about you and your wants and needs. There was honor, duty, responsibility and a detailed process for every interaction and while you do not have to like it, that is how it was.
@@gianellab.4953 Girl, I gotchu! The heavy tension and slow-burn thing is not surprising for people who watch asian dramas. They have that, make you squeal at the smallest interaction, then yell like a proud parent when they get together thing down to a damn SCIENCE!
as someone who (unfortunately) did spend some time on the bridgerton subreddit, yeah their takes were equally baffling lol. i saw a lot of comments on the wedding episode complaining that it was too dramatic and i was like damn we are watching this show for very different reasons. i thought we were all here specifically for the drama but i guess not! some people just wanted zero conflict and i don't get it, that would be so boring. thank you for having correct opinions, julia, it's so reassuring to know that i'm not crazy
The subreddit had absolute hiatus brainworms from well before the promo started dropping. First it was "where's the promo they clearly are stupid and hate us" and then it became "this promo is stupid and clearly they hate us". I remember a time where we just had trailers maybe a month out from a premiere and maybe a teaser with no dialogue and that was fine. But some fans are counting up their photos and their press interviews and official gifs and clips one through seven and the teaser and the full trailer and somehow--SOMEHOW--it's still NOT ENOUGH and all those professional marketing teams for this major streaming and production company are morons who don't know their business and how it's going to be THEIR own fault (and Shonda and CVD's) when S2 is a FLOP and...[touches earpiece] hold on I'm getting the viewing numbers in...
@@GotLostProductions It's oddly comforting to know humans will always recreate fandom in the same way every time they get interested in a form of media. These old fandom wanks? They're my oldest friends Edit: HEY I KNOW YOU I'VE GOT THE REVIEW OF MR DARCY TAKES A WIFE OPEN IN ANOTHER TAB
I liked Edwina. I thought her story line was really interesting since she was portrayed to be really naive and fragile, especially from Kate’s view. once Kate comes clean about the romance and the plot with the grandparents, Edwina actually handles it with maturity, proving Kate wrong. Edwina acting maturely about all the drama really showed how immature Kate and Anthony were being. I thought it was a great empowering arc for Edwina.
i find it so weird people dislike her, calling her naive or blind for not noticing kathony's feelings for each other and shit on her way more than on kathony for having an emotional affair behind their sister and fiance's back respectively. i love kathony but if i was edwina i would not have acted so maturely i would've done everything to ruin their lives akdjaksjdak
i watched the show before reading the books and was amazed at how...awful the books were. like props to shonda for turning those books into great shows honestly
@@pennyblack8274 I’m sorry in True Blood, it was set in south of the U.S without having ANY RESEMBLANCE of colored individuals let alone black folks??? That is honestly crazyyy 😮
i like (mostly) everything about season 2 more than season 1 i actually PREFER when there's a fair amount of subplots and the romance is like an undercurrent, slowly shifting and developing... it just leaves with a lot more to be desired and i guess im a sucker for slow burn what can i say also i didnt care for the sex scenes in s1. to me daphne/simon's relationship was ruined after they got married. i did not like the turn their relationship took at ALL. kate and anthony were perfect all the way through
Exactly. I liked both leads, I enjoyed their romance and also liked Anthony's arc. Daphne was so unlikable from the beginning and only got worse and Simon was so underdeveloped, but from what we got he is definitely an abused spouse.
exactly how i feel. after simon and daphne have their first sex scene, everything after that I was completely tuned out of cause it was just non stop sex, and then *that* scene happened and I was even more out of it
Its surprising but not shocking that this season's critiques feature more anti-women rhetoric than the first season, which literally featured female-lead sexual abuse towards a man
my thing is that scam plotline felt like such a tedious, long-winded way to figure out feathers getting their wealth back. pen, fly on the wall that she is, not picking up on the scam and not being affected by the reveal felt weird. ends on a heartfelt lady feather moment but it's so unearned. "im a mother i care about my daughters more than anything" when all she does is be rude to her daughters. 🤨 felt like time we could've spent developing kate or pen. i will always support the girls though. i hope pen kills someone next season. straight eloise sent a deep chill through my bones.
Yeah that was the only side plot I didn’t enjoy as much. Love the actors involved but nah. She called the other daughter stupid, manipulates her into marriage, and makes fun of Penelope all the time. I think she is looking out for them, because she likes the status associated with finding a good match? I don’t know how much that would actually be the case. Either that, or she just likes her daughters more than a man. She just doesn’t like them either that much. I think an important reference to the first season is when she said (paraphrase): “you won’t find a man you love, but you’ll have children and eventually they’ll be enough.” Maybe her children, despite her actual opinion of them, are all she has left? Maybe she does love her children, but ultimately doesn’t agree with who they are? Or loves them despite her low opinion of them. Again, which is really weird but not surprising for a historical novel. I think it was maybe just a ‘yeah feminism!’ moment.
It’s a very Cersei Lannister moment. They could portray a mother character that doesn’t care much for her children, or having that be an extra aspect of her character rather than what defines her. They’re exclusively boxed into: I love my kids and I am very kind, or I love my kids but I am a bitch. I guess her having a romantic plot line is actually an improvement of other characterisations of mothers in general. And people don’t watch regency romances for nuanced mother characters.
@@TheOtherChosenOnes great reference to the line in season one, i totally forgot about it. maybe they could've expanded on it this season, but instead she's back on her comedy relief schemer behaviour for 95% of her s2 plot. the weight put into her "i care about my daughters" line in s2 felt like such a misplaced change in tone. i agree that it feels like a big feminism one-liner without much depth or actual feminist thinking to back it up. which, yeah, it's the sort of thing where a nuanced portrayal of her relationship with motherhood and the oppressive nature of regency marriage could be really interesting and well done, but i think most people aren't particularly interested in her as a character for the writers to consider that. but they still devote so much time to a stock scam plotline (+ leave the s1 plot with her husband dead in the water), which only ends up affecting bg characters. totally rambling now, but i do think the scam plotline was put in as a convoluted way to patch over their money issues so it wouldn't interrupt pen's season. feels awkward to me.
@@Buzz0Killington I’m not trying to fight you about anything. I’m sorry that I didn’t get your joke and made myself look foolish. But my comment still stands.
Some of the "fans" are insane and crazy. As a South Indian brown skinned person myself, it is racist to brand the choices you don't like as racism. It's not right to mask your own hateful feelings toward the show as "racism" There's nothing more racist that pitting two women of minority backgrounds, and using them as your tools to be hateful online... It's no wonder that so many of the cast members either left twitter or limit their comments and posts on other soc meds
Honestly I love how dramatic Penelope and the lady Whistledown plotline is! Her big fight with Eloise was a great culmination for both of the character's trajectories over the course of the season. I really like that Penelope is a very complicated character who isn't a perfect angel or just straight up a bad person; she's got a vindictive streak in her that I find really fascinating, especially compared to how it came out in season 2 vs season 1. In season 1 it feels more selfishly motivated since while she's trying to protect Collin from potential social ruin, a lot of it feels more like lashing out at Marina for pursuing the man she loves. But in season 2 I completely understand why she did what she did, it really was to protect Eloise and she didn't see any other way to do it, since Lady Whistledown is really the only way she's ever found to have any power in her life. That doesn't make it right, but Peneople is a young girl in a bad situation and she did the best that she could. But that doesn't mean her actions were entirely unselfish, since there was some motivation in how she was jealous of how close Eloise had grown to Theo and that Eloise was abandoning her. BUT EVEN THEN I find that to be more compelling than the season 1 conflict because it really felt like a symptom of Penelope coming from an abusive household that treats her horribly and Eloise being one of the only people who really cares about her for who she is. I just love morally ambiguous female characters!!!
I liked season 2 more than season 1 in pretty much every way. I don’t watch the show for the sex scenes and constant scenes of romance. I arguably like the scenes with others characters and side plots MORE than the main plot. I really enjoyed the more scenes between the Bridgerton siblings this season, and the side plots with them and others. If the show became what I’ve heard the books are, nothing more than a repetitive romance story over and over, I would probably stop watching it. So I sincerely hope the writers don’t listen to people who want that.
I fully agree. The fact that there was less sex in this season made me like it more. I also really enjoyed the side plots which is rare in a show like this for me.
I agree. The subplots make the universe feel more fleshed out. I’d argue that the stolen glances and hand touching are more period-appropriate than going on dates and discussing masturbation. No disrespect to season one, but season two makes my Austen-loving heart very happy.
Also, the way Colin says he's not interested in Penelope in the show, I feel like they're leaving themselves legroom for it to be a misunderstanding ("I meant you were by dearest friend, I couldn't think of you romantically until ABC moment")..
And like, we directly, 6(?) episodes earlier had Kate getting mad at Anthony for saying something that i believe he said in some sort of weird "male male" interaction y'know? So, similar thing.
I feel Colin never even thought about Pen that way until someone suggested he was courting her that very moment. I'm more confused not more people picked up on that moment and they all went "boohoo, bad men!" Happy I wasn't the only one.
This scenario happened to Book version Colin (Don't read further if you don't want to be spoiled :) ) , however he was with his brothers and he saw Pen right after he said it. Pen got an apology from the Bridgerton brothers and Anthony brought her home. She was going home after chatting with Eloise when it happened. In the book, Colin was fed up with his mom always asking him to dance with Penelope in parties and asking him continuously about getting her as a match.
@@April_idk Agreed. Colin doesn't own it to Penelope to like/love her back. So he has every right to not want to court her and people shouldn't blame him for that. But given their respective social status, he should have been more sensible about it. The way he phrased it is insulting. He could just have said "No, I am not courting her. She's a friend." But he had to phrase it in an insulting way that implies she is not dating material Period. Colin IS a leading member of society. The way he made it look like courting her is nonsense doesn't help her (already very low) chances with another eligible young man. So other than having her heart broken, he pretty much ruined any chance she might have had at making a match, even less a good one. So for that, she has every right to be upset. I also highly suspect that he DOES reciprocate her feelings (or is starting to in S2) but doesn't realize it yet. The way he looks at her and his general body language and actions when it comes to her are often ambiguous. And this could echo the part of the book where he doesn't know if he loves her or not because it doesn't feel like this overpowering burning desire the books/poems describe (which aligns with a friends-to-lovers plotline where they've known each other for so long his feelings grew slowly and he also took her for granted).
i truly believe the people that don't like pen, just have a problem with understanding nuance and complexity and have low interpretation skills and a lot of the hate she receives is definetly rooted in fatphobia, that being said, the vast majority of people still love pen/polin and will enjoy their season, if not, we can make it up for them.
This, I was so confused when I read the internet on it. I for a while pondered if they missed an episode or something... just to realize people are just not "understanding" and have very little room for trying to understand someone that does not fit our image of perfection in several ways. And then there's the people that absolutely don't have this judgmental view of the world not understanding Colin's rude denial of courting Pen, because she indeed doesn't fit the image a Bridgerton should court. Says a lot about the viewers, fans and our current society.
I don't agree/like a lot of Pen's actions throughout season 2, but she did not deserve what ended up happening to her in my opinion and like you said there's a lot of fatphobia there.
i appreciate her as a character but as a person i still can't get over what she did to marina in S1. however i am hella biased as marina is easily my favourite character in both seasons. when she dies im gonna cry
i personally was so angry with pen the entire season 2. but i do know that is what makes a good character. if you are genuinely angry it's just good acting and writing. she also has plenty of nuance in that she does have good intentions mostly, but she also messed up badly in many ways. so her storyline could go so many ways, and it would feel genuine.
My secret wish, if the producers aren't going to go by the book and have Eloise write to and fall in love with Sir Phillip Crane, is NOT for Eloise to be with the printerboy, but to FINALLY notice the looks the Bridgerton FOOTMAN gives to her when he fetches her everywhere at her command!!! He sure looks like he has the hots for Miss Eloise!!!!!
@@beatm6948 Go back even to Season 1 and watch the face of the cute footman that Eloise bribes to take her to try and prevent Whistledown from being caught by the Queen's henchmen. He shows up throughout Season 2 taking Eloise to the printer's shop and the lecture. Watch his face dealing with Eloise!!!
So as someone who also read all of the books and is USUALLY a person who is all about staying loyal to the books I agree they made the story better with the changes. My main problem in the book was that while I liked Kate I did not like Anthony because he was such an ASSHOLE in the books. I loved Anthony in the show because they removed what wasn't working in the books something they should have done in season one with the whole Daphne SEXUALLY ASSAULTS Simon thing that they somehow DECIDED TO KEEP. Book to screen adaption is all about figuring out what works and what needs to be changed either because it doesn't translate well in a visual medium or because the story could actually be IMPROVED if certain changes were made. I hope that judging by this season moving forward they'll continue sticking to the parts of the story that works and improving or changing the things that didn't work in the books. .Cough Chough Sir Phillips ENTIRE CHARACTER.
I say all of this with the caveat that Eloise and Penelope are my two favorite characters in the whole show and their friendship is the relationship I'm most invested in across the entire series: I actually think Eloise and Penelope's friendship in the show is a really astute exploration of privilege, and also that Penelope has never done anything wrong, ever, in her entire life and anyone who thinks she has is probably themselves quite privileged and also missing the entire point. Eloise could, theoretically, do anything with her life. She's rich, she comes from a big family with older brothers so she has no need to marry or have kids, she's thin, she's pretty. She could run off tomorrow and take some sort of bohemian tour of the continent and write radical novels or whatever and never come back to England and no one would care or notice. But she doesn't, because Eloise talks a big revolutionary game and has all these ideals but, as we saw this season, ultimately lacks any courage to follow through on them because she's more comfortable complaining and blaming other people ‐ something Penelope very astutely points out in their fight. Penelope, on the other hand, is unfortunately kinda fucked. She's from a family with no money and a poor reputation, she's one of three girls, and she's not considered conventionally attractive or having any other qualities that would make her an enticing marriage prospect. Her writing Lady Whistledown is more than just a fun thing she does because it pads her ego to be good at something (which for the record would in and of itself be a completely valid reason for her to do it!!! She deserves to find her purpose and calling as much as any Bridgerton brother!!!!), it's her only means of providing for herself for her future. Eloise doesn't seem to care at all about Penelope's circumstances. She never listens to Penelope's thoughts, feelings, or opinions. She repeatedly takes for granted that Penelope will offer support for whatever dumb thing Eloise decides she wants to do, when Eloise decides she wants that support, and not bother her or ask anything of her when Eloise doesn't want to give it. She ignores Penelope's warnings about how her behavior is going to get her in trouble and then has the absolute audacity to somehow make it PENELOPE'S fault that Eloise's poor judgment and rashness and unwillingness to listen puts Penelope in a position where her only choices are to betray Eloise a little or betray Eloise a lot. Eloise thinks Penelope had other choices of what she could have done with her life, but that's a function of her own privilege and projection: ELOISE had other choices. ELOISE could have behaved better or at least been slightly more considerate of the effect her actions might have on other people. ELOISE is for a change forced to face some consequences for her actions instead of being indulged, and it's only because of how loyal a friend Penelope is that this is the first time that's ever happened. Penelope ever so slightly chose herself over Eloise for once in her life, and Eloise is too privileged to recognize how precious the loyalty Penelope showed her until that point is. I'm really glad they added this conflict with Eloise and Penelope even though they are my two favorite characters and I love their friendship so much and hate to see them fight. Eloise needs to learn what Penelope has in spades: humility, compassion, and a recognition of what privileges she does and doesn't have, and Penelope needs to learn what Eloise has: brash confidence and a willingness to put herself first when necessary. Anyway, I thought this was all made very, VERY explicitly clear on the show, but I guess the fact that it's the plus sized character who's the one more in the right while the conventionally attractive character is the one who has a whole lot of learning to do means its's a bit too subtle and nuanced for some people.
Agreed! I wouldn't go as far as saying that Penelope never did anything wrong. She made some mistakes. But she isn't a villain like some people claim. At least she is able to accept her mistakes and learn from it contrary to Eloise). And she always acts with good intentions, she was always trying her best to help the people she cares about with whatever limited means she has. While I always found Eloise self-centered/egoist and extremely judgmental, especially toward other women. Even during their fight, the differences between their characters and mindsets/maturity were obvious: Penelope told Eloise the harsh truth about Eloise that Eloise refuses to face. Eloise anger was very understandable, but she had almost no real argument, refused to listen to Penelope (even her apologies) and just tried her best to hurt her as much as possible. She even used the exact same words Cressida, Penelope's main bully, used against her. I also suspect that a part of her anger was not the feeling of betrayal from a friend, but also having her pride hurt. She couldn't even deny being jealous when Penelope implied it. * I'm looking forward to seeing them grow and seeing how they fix their relationship issues: As you said, they could learn from each other. Seeing how Eloise is still very immature and look-down on pretty much everyone else, including Penelope, who is as smart (if not smarter) than her and shares her feminist views but still wants to get married and have a family, I am hoping for a similar "aesop" than in Mona Lisa's Smile where Eloise learns to respect other women. Even those who want a family. And that doesn't change their worth or their intelligence. I'm also looking forward to Penelope growing more confident and finally showing who she truly is/what she thinks more and refusing to take disrespect from others anymore. It's cute when the Bridgertons come to her help but I want her to stand up for herself, and with class, like she learned to do in the book. It looked like she was starting to be more assertive in S2 so 🤞. I also hope they will keep the "subplot" about Penelope using her money to financially support her family and charities. I hope they will elaborate on it actually. It could even be charities about helping (poor and/or working class) girls have at least a basic education, for instance. That sounds like something Show Penelope would do too. *This means they are giving Eloise Colin's jealousy potline which is good because that was bad in the book but in this situation, it could turn into something good that would help Eloise grow and become the activist she wants to be. And it also means the conflict between Penelope and Colin won't be Colin being petty so they can continue to develop the"friends to lover" story they've already started instead of the sudden and unbelievable shift in Colin in the books.
the fandom screams for complex female characters until they do something wrong. LET FEMALE CHARACTERS HAVE FLAWS! the reason eloise is my favourite character is because she isn't perfect, she is actually really interesting. she's also a lesbian but we can talk about that later.
Well she did have an amazing connection so I think she could be bi and I absolutely love Eloise as well! Yes, she could’ve been a better friend to Pen and would’ve figured out Lady Whistledown if she actually LISTENED to Pen and wasn’t so self-absorbed. But Pen and humans in general can be very self-absorbed esp when they’re young. Sidenote: I loved how she attended progressive feminist rally and I loved her intellectual/budding romantic relationship with Theo 🥰
@@luciskies i agree to an extent but pen also ruined els reputation and harassed her family for YEARS so i totally understand why she reacted the way she did. i think next season she will take the time to listen to pen and pen will also become a better friend.
@@wlweloise7270 oh I agree with you. I was on Elosie's side when she went off on Pen and ended their friendship. I feel for pm all the characters (except for the creepy cousin featherington) and still dislike them. What I was trying to convey is, that yes Elosie could've been a better friend by actually listening to Pen but she did have every reason to react how she did once she uncovered the truth.... While Pen has also been an awful friend, worse imo. She's an unlikeable villain and it sucks that they made the only plus size character this way. I am interested to see how they'll fix their friendship too and hopefully they'll be some MAJOR character growth from El and Pen. I really hope they don't skip Benedict's storyline for Polin because I don't really like the ship rn. Maybe that'll change but the writers have a lot of work to do. Esp since a lot of us haven't forgiven Pen for what she has done to the ppl she "loves." Sidenote: It's weird how at the end of the day not liking Pen is an unpopular opinion. Most ppl love her and I think the fandom can get really toxic with Pen Haters and Pen Lovers. Nuanced convos are the best
I need a resolution for Eloise's terror of childbirth that isn't "she grew up and got over it after seeing some women close to her survive the ordeal of labour and delivery and also she adores children now so she's decided breech births and hemorrhages and puerperal fever no longer apply to her, she's a BRIDGERTON, there's nothing she can't do, including live forever." Like, sure, let her have some growing up and personal development, because God knows I wasn't exactly comfortably handy with infants at 17 and now I'm like support the neck but otherwise you can hold them under your arm like a football and they don't care, it's fine; but that doesn't mean she has to suddenly want them because she wants to play Russian roulette with some botanical dick. Maybe Phillip is gay too and they can have a lovely lavender marriage and be each other's beards and no one will bat an eye about Lady Crane's clever and pretty lady companion and Sir Phillip's handsome horticulture protege permanent houseguest. I've also suggested on the Bridgerton subreddit that Marina lives and Eloise enter into an open relationship triad arrangement with little to no sex and rigorous birth control efforts if Phillip must be involved but you can imagine how my suggestion that romance and lots and lots of sex need not go hand-in-hand (and that we spare the WOC from dying to serve the Happy Ending with Obligatory Matrimony for the white woman) was received. Which is to say, not well at all. People want Eloise to be spunky and stand up for non-traditional roles for women until you suggest that that role for a woman not revolve around marrying and popping out babies (and her "maturation" arc seeming to comprise simply accepting that that is her function and what she actually wants rather than reviles,) and then whooooboy, folks get MAD.
I hope for Penelope that Colin does more to deserve her interest - in the show, he seems nice enough, but impulsive and immature, even a little generic.
Agreed! My hope is that she is finally allowed to stop dressing in only yellow, causing her and everyone around her to notice that she is more confident. Since she doesn’t have Eloise to hide with at parties and balls, perhaps more gentlemen pay attention to her and Colin gets jealous, finally realizing what’s been in front of him the whole time. Penelope then has other suitors, and rejects Colin when he pursues her now that it’s convenient for him. From there, Colin does some self-discovery and earns her trust and love
Honestly, I have reached the conclusion that this fandom is extremely toxic and they just can't be reasoned with. Being on Twitter after the release of S2 was starting to put me off the show so I just stopped reading their rants and complains about changes from the books, the scenes being cut, the Edwina promotion and all their other ridiculous complaints. And guess what, I loved S2 and I don't care what everyone else says lol. These people hate everything that isn't their vision of the books and don't realize that most people actually care about the other main characters too. Who would care about the characters if they made them one dimensional like Edwina was in the book, that would be so boring to watch and no one would care enough to watch other couples' season if they don't get some development in the seasons where they aren't main. And how boring would this show be with no conflicts between the characters??????? I will never understand these complaints, genuinely cba with these people.
@@whitneyb3046 The Venn diagram of 'fans' complaining about the changes from the book and the 'fans' flipping out when they hear JB is gay in real life as if THAT is all that stands between them and him absolutely definitely for real boning is a circle...
Here's why people think there was "less" of Kanthony: Firstly, They were hardly alone together in moments of candidness/honesty. We saw Simon and Daphne alone quite a bit, seeing them interact in the scheme, talking openly, sex, etc. With Kanthony, all the time they were alone had so much tension (sexual, emotional) and less frankness, more of them acting with the mask of what was expected of them, and thus we are left somewhat "unfulfilled" by their interactions, however hot those scenes were. I think it's just that our takeaway feelings of frustration (rather than our blissful glee, i.e. the final scene of S2) after their scenes in S2 episodes 1-7) is clouding our ability to see that the numbers, in comparison to S1, are actually the same lolol. Secondly, a lot of S2 was spent explaining WHY it's hard for them to get together (Anthony's flashback story, Kate's shame of "betraying" her sister), rather than just showing Kanthony being together (opposite of simon/daphne). Totally different plot devices than S1, but let's be honest, WHY DO WE NEED THE CONSTANT COMPARISON, THEIR STORY IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM SIMON AND DAPHNE. And thank god, bc S2>>S1.
Yeah, the stories by their nature don't ALLOW as much flagrant one-on-one encounters as Simon and Daphne's fake courtship did--of course they spent chaperoned time together, walking, talking, dancing, spoonlicking. Anthony and Kate have to have circumstances force them together time and again; and then even when they do get moments alone, they are NOT courting and know that they very much a danger to each other, their time alone is almost thoroughly in spite of themselves and their purer intentions. That's why they have that PULL to each other, and also why they seem to get interrupted so much more often when they do get a moment alone. Everything about their situation is doing the opposite of endorsing their moments together. They should not, they cannot, they must not. Daphne and Simon don't even get a HINT of that besides Anthony's grumbling objections until Simon tries to break off the (fake) courtship and then they collide in the garden and get caught.
Also no-one has pointed out that Anthony was given a huge side plot in season 1 and Kanthony, unlike any of the other relationships, is likely to get its own sideplot in every future season.
I agree with you about Penelope. They seriously aren’t going to do her any favors if they skip over Benedict’s story for her and Colin. I think if they dedicate next season to repairing Colin and Penelope’s relationship as a side plot it’ll be much better received in season four. People are saying Polin was more built up this season and I just don’t agree. Colin is too young and Penelope is still too insecure. They need to grow a little bit more as characters
Yep and that “denial of Penelope” scene in the show is pretty timeline accurate in that it happens way before the point of their relationship. She remembers it in her book as ‘the incident’ that happened years ago. With that said, I’m hoping they will do Benedict’s next as well and then maybe even do a time jump before we see Polin on screen to give them both the space and time to grow into people the audience will want to root for. Hopefully some side plot in the next season will be some atonement and self reflection for Penelope
Absolutely agree! Penelope & Colin both very much feel like teenagers/young adults, who are beginning to form their own identities but aren't there yet. Another season for them to grow & change before they get the spotlight would probably serve them well.
I agree that I hope in season 3 they'll focus on Penelope repairing her friendship with Eloise and her having some redemption. Adding her romance with Colin doesn't give that issue the weight it deserves. Having some separation with Colin and Eloise might help Pen figure out how to define herself outside of them. She'll have to think hard about the choices she's made. She's hit rock bottom so nowhere to go but up, right? Although I do fear it might get a little worse before it gets better. I believe Pen has a lot of good in her so I believe in her. She's interesting, she's flawed and I'm team Penelope ❤️
girl your statistical analysis in here is so cool and impressive! also don’t get worried about having some scenes that you weren’t sure how to categorize. that always happens when coding (labeling) things in research! you just have to go with your best judgement sometimes.
Agree with almost everything. I will add that a lot of the slow burn elements that people liked from this season is based on the inclusion of the forbidden lovers trope. It made everything more intense and sexier. And the only way to really achieve is to give them an actual obstacle. And that obstacle was Edwina. Having them get married half way through the season would have just eliminated one of the best pieces of this season. And for what? I just think people wanted a sex montage like Season 1. Can’t convince me otherwise. lol I really hope the writers stay AWAY from social media. When it comes to sites that take the aggregate of the public opinion of the show like Rotten Tomato or IMDB, overwhelmingly fans prefer Season 2. The writers did a good job of making a compelling season of television. If they listen to the LOUD minority on social media, they are going to ruin this show for casual viewers. And Bridgerton was only going to become the #1 most watched English language show on Netflix by attracting casual viewers. Also, holding the source material as some great literary classic like Austen or Brontë is laughable. The books just gave Shondaland and co. a framework. I prefer they do everything they can to improve the stories and make the most compelling seasons of tv they can send out.
It makes me so angry when people keep arguing which woman is the worst when actually the real villains are: In Marina's story: sir George. He should have married her before going to war, but he didn't, therefore he was the one responsible for ruining her life. In Edwina's story: Anthony. Omg, he makes me so mad. He is supposed to be all grown up and head of the family and instead he is a selfish brat thinking only of his own reasons to marry and being all honest about them to everyone else but her. Wth dude, not cool! In the Featheringtons' story: Portia's idiot of a husband. What was she supposed to do after he gambled all their money and then died leaving her with nothing? And don't even get me started on Simon: I cannot see why people like him. Yes, he's got his issues but instead of communicating he spends all his time hitting people. Toxic masculinity much? And the duel? Dude, the rules in the sociaty are not fair but they are simple: If you get cought, you will have to get married. You do not shoot people just because you broke the rules. And I absolutely hate Anthony for the duel as well. Communicate you idiots! How are we supposed to root for these duelling, brooding men, I've got no idea.
I feel like my dislike for Penelope is slightly different. I want her to be more vicious and backstabby. As much as I like her and Eloise's friendship, I was genuinely like "Girl, fuck your friend, this is your business." be the villain, i'd love her more.
Yesss im praying for full villain penelope or at least buisness minded girl boss especially for next season. Like yep it sucks u lost ur friend and ur crush is a dick but lets be shady and make that money. Maybe get a redemption arc later but lets commit to being messy and morally grey none of this feeling bad about it ... i want messy Pen.
Yes, count me in! I would love to see a villain Penelope. She has been too nice for the Bridgertons for the sake of Eloise and Colin. Now that she lost them, she could be so much more without those two to protect. And those two need to realise that Penelope is much more than the always there reliable girl next door they think she is. To be fair Eloise did realise that already but I think they are giving her Colins jealous storyline from the books and that's the real reason she is angry, and I think it's great. Now they can do something better with the Polin storyline. I do hope Penelope and Eloise make up but not too soon. And I am here for Penelope+Colin but let him suffer first
Thank you for your thoughts on Pen. I understand why people might not like her and I don't think she's always a good person, but she is incredibly complex and I've never felt like she was beyond redemption or that she doesn't deserve love. Especially when so many of her actions are motivated by the lack of love she receives in her own home.
I think people don't like her because she reminds them too much of themselves. We are all as flawed as penelope, and we don't like that. (We as in people. I am not a Pen hater)
I actually loved this season but in regards to the screentime issue, I do think Kate’s was mishandled and a lot of Kathony as well (I am one of those who wanted more bodice ripping unfortunately) and I did have issue with how they portrayed the Edwina/Kate relationship before the wedding as well as after it. But the Twitter people are on a whole other level of conspiracy theory tbh like wtf? Again, your Bridgerton opinions are superior as always
regarding the last part, I love how Penelope has made morally ambiguous decisions because she's been backed into a corner whether the intent behind those decisions was benign or malicious. It's on-brand with the racy position Lady Whistledown has stood behind, and, unlike in the books, it explores the stretches of her influence and the consequences that Penelope is left to grapple with. She's a compelling character who juggles the stakes of her double life. The decisions she's made thus far make her a very compelling character. Honestly, I find some issue in the underlying idea that the Bridgerton fandom tends to have about female characters. They don't allow to be anything but kind, compliant, and agreeable. Let them be angry at the hand they've been dealt with. Let them be ambitious. Let them use their teeth and claws. Let them rage.
Everywhere I go I see people who didn't like S2 but I love it so much and watched it again and again. the slow burn, the passion, the stolen glances, the staring, the compliments disguised as insults, the heaviest breathing, the realistic confession, the trauma, the hot consent, & the angry s3x
People not understanding that season 2 would inevitably have "less" contact between the two leads because they're in a live triangle. But also, I don't think they should have left it all the way to halfway through the ceremony. Just personally I think that was taking it too far for poor Edwina. Also they both deserved at least another argument about the parentification of Kate so there's that. Also Also, Colin will always be an idiot but I did like him having sense kicked into him by marina and then realising that he actually liked penelope. That was good. Personally, I think penelope made some bad choices in bad situations and probably should have told eloise she was whistledown when she was threatened by the Queen
I think some cultural context would have been better to really drive home the moment of Edwina’s realization. In India, when a woman is given bangles by a man, that is considered his proposal. When edwina sees him hand those bangles to Kate, the rightful owner of said bangles, she sees plainly for the first time based on her cultural upbringing. I wish they would have made it a bit more clear in the show the significance because it was hard hitting once you know.
@@whitneyb3046 Yeah the wedding episode was a heavy homage to Indian cinema and culture in terms of the structure of its drama and I think that might have been lost on viewers unfamiliar with the tropes and signifiers, especially around marriage traditions.
@@whitneyb3046 oh my god thank you for stating that! I did not know and fully believed that she realized that they loved each other through them looking at each other 😭
i loved s2, the romance was better, the sharma family was lovable, even eloise’s and theo’s subplot was preferable to me than those of the first. but i also did feel, prior to viewing any online opinions, that the subplots were less involved with the main romance, which i didn’t like. though i also disliked the featheringtons and penelope this season.
Honestly, I think one of the problems is that bodice rippers are a guilty pleasure for a lot of people but these people haven't considered that the tropes of that subset of romance would be absolutely horrifying translated to screen. I loved reading The Viscount Who Loved Me, with the recognition that it's a fictional fantasy, but as soon as I considered seeing Anthony on screen behave like book Anthony I was relieved that they didn't try to keep things exactly the same. A good example of this is Outlander! I love both the books and the show but they definitely toned down some of the domineering 18th century elements of book Jamie and made him a bit more "modern" on screen, which was for the better. (Although that is a less extreme example).
Reddit is 90% trashfire and yet I'm still hanging in there but in NO way can I handle Bridgerton Twitter. Or Netflix Twitter, in general. It's a sea of spammy renewal demands of unrelated shows and vitriol.
I think the idea of forced marriage doesn’t really work with what’s going on in the modern world. The fact that it has been deemed as romantic in the first place is a bit sh*tty by today’s standards. I’m happy with the slow burn and marriage on their own terms.
Am a feminist but I find it so bizarre that people critique Bridgerton as 'antifeminist' like this is regency era courtship? Ofc its going to have patriarchal elements to it
Dylan Kennedy, for some people critiquing and/or complaining about something is part of the fun. These are tools for addressing their own personal angst about the subject. Also, in today's culture you can actually, get paid for doing it.
I don’t hate Penelope, I just don’t necessarily see her as a “good” character right now. In season 1, she condemns Marina and her unborn child to a cruel fate by exposing her through Lady Whistledown all because she loved Colin, a boy who doesn’t even like her back. (and no, I don’t believe she did it for some moral reason cause she was fine with Marina’s plan until it worked on Colin and he actually reciprocated) She could’ve simply told Colin the truth/written him an anonymous letter and nothing can convince me that she didn’t do that because Colin would’ve gone ahead with it anyways. In season 2, she ruins her childhood best friend Eloise by exposing her through Lady Whistledown. There’s even a scene where she says to Madam Delacroix that she would never ruin a friend…but she did it to Marina so…??? She claims to have done it to protect Eloise, but if she cared that much about her, she could’ve told the Queen who she really was. The Queen didn’t want to punish Lady Whistledown, she wanted an alliance. What that tells me is that Penelope is willing to throw her friend (and the Bridgertons let’s be honest) under the bus to save her own skin. I’m happy with female characters operating in gray areas - in fact, more writers should do this. It makes Penelope a way more interesting and complex character than Eloise for example. But she’s very far from a saint right now and she has quite a bit to atone for.
i'm sorry, but she was absolutely not fine with marina's plan until colin reciprocated, there were multiple instances of her being visibly uncomfortable and annoyed at what marina was doing as soon as she knew she was pregnant and more than once she tried to dissuade colin from keeping his pursuit of marina, and at one point it was pretty obvious that it wasn't only because she loved him but also because she knew he sould suffer a lot when he eventualy found out the truth, that's what the whole "what about him? what about colin" was about. and with eloise, context is very important, she was warned multiple times against meeting with theo and that the wrong person was going to catch her in the act, she decided not to listen, so penelope was backed into a corner and had to make a tough decision, at that point the queen would never believe someone other than eloise was whistledown, even if she showed receipts. i do not believe pen is a saint at all and have not seen anyone call her so, and i do agree with you that she has a lot to atone for and there's a lot of development that i hope happens, she's a 17 year old complicated, complex young woman who makes mistakes and needs to mature a lot and i absolutely love her for it. Edit: she most definitely didn't condemn marina to a cruel fate seeing as she's doing pretty good right now married to a sir and having a comfortable life.
I agree with the OP. I can understand where Pen is coming from/her feeling but still dislike her. I don’t understand why there has to be so much hate between ppl who love Pen and ppl who don’t. We all have opinions. It’s honestly exhausting. Plus, the ppl who dislike Pen are the minority. I would know based on expressing my dislike of Pen on Reddit and why I like Eloise more.
I think a HUGE part of the problem is that polin doesn’t happen until a full 10 years down the line from the first book. She has some major major major growth to do and bonds to mend and self reflection to do before she can be seen as a “good” character that most people will root for. Which is wonderful!! I’m so desperately hoping they do Benedict’s story next to give Pen some room to grow into the person she’s meant to be, as well as Colin.
@@carol-dk6vc she absolutely did ruin Marina. It was pure chance that Phillip happened to be an upstanding guy. She would’ve been cast out from society otherwise. Her and her child would’ve been condemned so Pen was absolutely the villain in that story. And that’s not excusing Marina’s actions, but at least hers are more understandable when you take in societal context. She was caught between a rock and a hard place, whereas Pen had options. Pen is still a very privileged girl who weaponised LW to break up Marina and Colin. As for Eloise - Pen’s main reason for not wanting her with Theo is because she didn’t want her own secret getting exposed which is selfish. Why didn’t she just tell Eloise? And who’s to say the Queen wouldn’t have believed her? Did she even try? No. These are the two main bad things that she’s done that make her “not a saint”. Writing a gossip column or not sharing her money with her family are no big deals. Almost ruining two of her only 3 friends are the worst things she’s done. And I agree with you that she’s complex and complicated, and to the writers’ credit, she’s probably the most fleshed out female character on the show. But she’s done two pretty big unlikeable things so it’s not really a shock that non-book readers wouldn’t take to her so soon.
I wasn't planning on watching season 2 because I was pretty lukewarm/bored by season 1, but to be honest, I actually LIKED season 2. I wasn't bored. I thought most of the storylines were better (except Eloise, she's just annoying, and the whole Whistledown thing, cause I don't care), the leads had waaaay more chemistry, and I actually liked that it was an actual slow burn romance and not as much gratuitous sex. I actually gave a shit when they finally got to bodice-ripping lol
so in actuality, kanthony had about the same screentime as simon & daphne, but people just hated the subplots/longed for their presence more on screen? I’ll take that as a win in my book lol
if theres something bridgerton book stans always going to do is defend these books mindlessly despite the fact that there"s a lot of problematic stuff on it they they choose to not acknowledge. im kinda glad the show does make a lot of things better (like writing the side-characters as actual people who get hurt and make mistakes instead of just being nice and one dimensional, fixing stuff like the bee stung scene and kathony being forced to marry each other just like simon and daphne). can't wait too see all the borderline sexist bs theyre gonna come up with to defend eloise's book.
Obviously, late to the party here but wanted to watch this to prepare a bit for the next season.... so One thing that's interesting to me is that many people see this whole story so differently than I do, like to me...... Pen is the main character of this show. She's the one with a multi-season arc. She's (to me) the most sympathetic and the one with the most room for growth, along with probably Eloise. She is absolutely the most interesting character. Daphne's story is more or less over once she marries, Anthony I suspect will be much the same. I really hope that Pen's arc doesn't just end at the end of S3.
"People often forgo meaningful comparison of entertainment value, theme, or whatever else in favor of playing spot-the-difference and patting themselves on the back for finding them"--heck yes, and I'm completely in support of a video expanding on it side note, I love that floral fluffy ruffle-adjacent shirt
The Featherington sideplot this season was less satisfying and probably felt longer than it's actual screen time. First season's plot involved Marina, Pen, AND Lady Featherington, 3 interesting characters, it roped in Colin Bridgerton, and ended in a major scandal, quickly hushed over, and Marina 's problem solved. In fact, while I was irritated with Lady F. the first time I watched it, repeat viewings actually improved my opinion of her a bit. She does nothing but criticize her daughters - but she was the only person trying to make sure Marina Thompson didn't end up giving birth in the street. And Marina was not helping- the woman had no plan for herself or her kid and did not care that by staying in the house she was going to hurt the Featherington's as well when the truth came out. Lady F had to handle that on her own. But Season 2- it's mostly Lady F and the New Lord F- and he just isn't interesting. And trapping Prudennce- their situation did not seem desperate enough for that. Pen is off on her own plot so this season's Featherington shenaningans had to be carried soley by Lady F. And by the end, even though once again Colin Bridgerton is roped in, they basically all end up back where they started. I fear she's going to end up like the Bridgerton Wile E. Coyote, with every season some new stupid get rich scheme. Which is a shame because I love the actress.
S2 was SO GOOD. S1 was very boring for me personally and the miscommunication was super annoying. I loved the slow burn in S2 as well. I did think the 2nd older bro was gonna be gay/bi lol. Like how all them kids all straight? 🫠 also the only plus size girl is an insecure gossip girl 🫤
I saw an interview where the actor who plays Benedict said they might explore his sexuality in later seasons, which I am really hoping for. Definitely felt like queer baiting in season one and then disappeared this season for some reason.
idc how penelope acts i haven't even watched the show (tho this video is changing my mind I think i will start it hehe) but nichola is my girl I will ride for her and all she does that's my wee lesbian u guys cannot say anything to her without the threat of me finding you and biting you......
I really disliked the love triangle. I do love them in general, but hate when brothers or sisters are involved. I just feel like we don't see good relationship between sisters often, even on this show Kate and Edwina were the only one. What I would've done different is I would go with a story where Edwina instead of Kate has a deal with her grandparents without anyone knowing. So when she would have that realization at the wedding she would back off without having any hard feelings for Kate.
it IS a shame we haven't gotten more one-on-one promo between jonathan and simone - i would love to see a photoshoot with just the two of them - but that is not the other cast members' fault.
I was ready to hate watch this season! Season 1 wasn't that impressive to me and book 2 read like a fanfiction. I cringed so hard during book's bee scene, no real stakes were introduced in the book, the enemy-to-lovers characterisation was thrown out the window halfway through the story, Kate our supposed strong lead was depicted as a whimpering mess needing rescuing repeatedly and the dialogues often were silly, almost cartoonish. And then came the TV show and god, I don't know how but they grounded the whole thing! Anthony's arc was so well done, the characters made decisions that felt true to them. Loved their interpretation of bee scene and the library scene. The season has flaws but it captures the essence a romance so fully that I can't fault it too much. Hope writers keep their heads in the game for future seasons and not listen to the discourse too much.
your video was posted to the bridgerton reddit, and I'm so glad because now I know you exist and wanted to tell you that you're amazing and I love this video and your other bridgerton video, and Penelope stans unite, and I am LOOKING FORWARD to watching the Cinderella ranking video. Anyway, specifically this video, I rewatched a lot of season 1 after first watching and obsessing over season 2, and you vocalize something I'm pretty sure I felt after seeing all the "GRRR SUBPLOTS STEALING KANTHONY'S TIME SEASON 1 DIDN'T DO THIS TO SAPHNE BUT IT SUCKS NOW THE SHOWRUNNERS MUST HATE KATHONY GRRRRRRRRRR" criticism, but I wasn't really able to vocalize it to myself, because I *know* that season 1 has an entirely comparable amount devoted to subplots and featheringtons. And the thing you explain so well that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere is how the Marina subplot in season 1 was thematically tied to and had a dramatic throughline with the main plot, so even if the subplots were ostensibly their own thing (even though Daphne and Simon became involved when they went back to London, especially Daphne) it didn't really *feel* like this disconnected, separate plot going on, taking time away, because of this thematic intertwining. In contrast to season 2, where the subplots were not connected and the show felt more like an ensemble drama with characters going through their own unrelated things. Which, I didn't mind at all, because in a show that's going to have a new main romance featuring a different Bridgerton sibling as the star of each new season, you have to do the work to set up their characters and conflicts so people will be invested in their romance from word go. I feel like a lot of the time in the first half of season 1 with Simon and Daphne was exposition heavy on them, because they didn't have a prior season to set up their characters, but that isn't the case with the other siblings or Penelope, who have the advantage of past subplots of set up. Like, for an uncontroversial example, look at Benedict. He's had his own subplot in both seasons so far (which apparently no one cares about in terms of it stealing time FOR SOME REASON, GEE, I DON'T KNOW), and what is it all about? Season 1 he started to seriously explore his interest in art after befriending a professional artist, but it mostly turned into being exposed to various flavors of socially forbidden relationships, and the tricks people develop to keep their love lives on the DL while maintaining a veneer of acceptability in society. Benedict is ultimately turned off by the falseness of that life in season 1- he tells his brother and sister about seeing Madame Delacroix rather than keeping it hidden, and he distances himself from the artist friend, but maintains the interest in art. Season 2 is focused entirely on the art- Delacroix breaks off their casual, no strings relationship in the first episode to prioritize her art career, which kind of shames him about his own lack of serious focus, and he dedicates himself to becoming a real artist and going to the academy, but mostly just continues his foray into the casual hedonism he's come to associate with artists, and ultimately ends up being totally disenchanted with the entire idea of this life for himself in a bout of imposter syndrome when he finds out his place was paid for by Anthony. This all sets the table magnificently for his romance with Sophie- the conflict they'll face as a couple and have to overcome, how the arc of it encompasses an emotional journey that Benedict has to go on to achieve his HEA of marrying her and becoming a successful professional artist, and it sets it all up in the first two seasons in a subplot that apparently no one even cares enough about to complain that it's taking up time, but by the time the story is told, it will have felt totally earned.
This is GOOD. And it shows that the writers are actually thinking ahead and strategizing. Social media will have you thinking the writers are monkeys in a room on typewriters. I have told everyone that Benedict is at the perfect place to start his season. But other people think it’s Polin. And I agree with Julia. Pen has to fix her relationship with Eloise before she gets into a romantic relationship with Colin. And people are insisting on rushing that. But I think it’s because people are prioritizing Pen’s romantic relationship with Colin over her friendship with Eloise and that doesn’t sit right with me. Plus, friend to lover tropes usually take a VERY long time to build on TV i.e. YEARS. Think about Fringe, Bones, X-Files, Cheers, The Office, New Amsterdam…I could go on and on and on because it is a popular trope. and it does not feel earned yet. But I digress. I have faith in the writers. What they choose to do will be for the best.
I liked season 2 more because of main couple - Kate & Anthony. Their chemistry was mind blowing. Jonathan & Simone are fab actors. I really didn't care about subplots. I don't care what Marina was up to or what were Featherington were up to. Also, I am up for drama but I hated how far they took Edwina & Anthony thing. When Anthony realized he has feelings for Kate, he could have start hunting for some other girl & in 6th episode, they can break it or something or at least Edwina should not have felt so strongly for Anthony. But not, to create drama, they had to pit sisters against each other. I personally hated how far they took this but yes, I liked about consent with respect to intimacy & Anthony respected Kate's wishes but I wanted them to give some flashback to Kate too. I hated season 1. I never felt Simon and Daphne's chemistry plus that marital assault is not my cup of tea.
no bc i will always be a penelope defender idgaf. pen saved eloises and the bridgertons reputation more than people know, bc the queen could and would have completely destroyed eloise/the bridgerton name had pen not stepped in. yes its sad that she had to use a big secret but like they said in the show it had to be something scandalous enough to show the queen that whistledown ISNT eloise. what she wrote is something eloise can come back from, having the actual queen set against you and your family is not.
I liked all the subplots and other characters. I liked the tension of waiting for the next scenes of the lovebirds. They were literally giving us the same terrible tension and sense of waiting and wanting the two of them were going through. The subplots last season really felt like they were more self contained and the ones this season feel more like they know they're going to have a multiseason arc so they can spend a season setting up the subplots for seasons to come within the subplots of this season, most of the major subplot characters will eventually get their own season and they were starting to plant the seeds for those. Just my take, if you like something different that's great if we all liked the same thing vanilla would be the only ice cream flavor.
honestly my favorite part of season 2 was portia being portia. idc what anyone else thinks, her subplot was necessary and objectively a great decision.
as a Penelope superfan i am simply Tired of Colin and genuinely wish Penelope ended up with anyone else and I mean that with my whole chest. Unfortunately this series is called Bridgerton and not Penelope Gets To Trade Up so if she ended up with someone else she won't get to be a lead and that frustrates me
Saphne and Kanthony may have almost equal amount of screentime but the issue arises that Saphne story was simple and very effectively got summarized in their screentime. Kanthony + Edwina plot needed more screentime because it just had so much going on. So by the time ep6 came, there was too much for them to sort out in way too less episodes. Their story felt rushed at the end. And that is why we think they could have gotten more time at least in the later episodes instead of random cousin marrying cousin or ruby scam storylines.
I love how everyone is so mad at what Penelope did and I'm just sitting here like 'Yup, that's chaotic bisexual energy, she's in love with Colin but also Eloise and extremely jealous of Eloise's crush. And she doesn't even realize it!' Honestly, I loved it. It's the sort of crazy, messy, did-not-think-this-through thing I might've done in her position.
one caveat - i wouldn't say show!kate doesn't have trauma - her trauma is that she was parentified, and it shows in the way she acts and what we do learn of the sharmas, backed up by how simone talks about her. but given not everyone picked up on that, the show could've made these things clearer.
Edwina's "coming into her own character development" storyline did nothing for me because Kate told her from the beginning Anthony didn't want a love match. She forgot all about wanting a husband who adored her and matched her scholarly interests because the idea of being a viscountess and a part of the Bridgerton family was appealing but Kate is wrong for wanting better for edwina, suppressing her true feelings so edwina can have Anthony and protecting her from the sheffields stipulations so edwina wouldn't be pressured to marry? We knew from the beginning kanthony would end up together so dragging edwina and Anthony to the point of a wedding was useless. Almost as useless as the mamas were this season. I don't mind subplots and side characters having conflict and character development (I enjoy the show more than the books cause of this) if they make sense but the writing was just poor in my opinion. I agree with the show needing to delve into Kate's backstory more. They could've done better with both Sharma sisters.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like Theo??? I mean, I did at first, but the two times he realized he couldn’t date Eloise he was very condescending and insulting to her. Especially in the last episode when Eloise didn’t kiss him, he turned Nice Guy real fast.
i LOVE the penelope/eloise conflict. i want the drama i want the messiness i want it all. i like how penelope isn't a goody-two-shoes. and that eloise is genuinely all talk, no action. i can see some very interesting directions they could take their storylines if they don't chicken out.
It was real! People say awful things to each other and ruin friendships and I felt a real loss when it happened on this show, that mirrored things I didn’t know I needed a story to help me process. Epic!
i don't hate edwina but how is having her be ignorant of everyone's feelings around her a development to her character? her speech in ep6 about making her own choices and taking the power from kate was so stupid since the wedding was only happening because she wanted it.
Yeah her arc in the last few episodes felt very disjointed and unfocused. She seemed to be too upset by several things at once and it muddied and watered down the core problems she needed to face, and as a result it's not really clear what she actually addressed and whether she actually resolved what should be a priority. Like, by the end she's back on good terms with Kate and I'm not entirely sure how or why? Except I guess she felt some kind of regrets after the horse crash? But they don't ever really articulate that clearly. Did she want Anthony to love her, or did she want to know the truth sooner? Did she want to have been brought up differently? Is she having an identity crisis as the Diamond? How does she feel about her place in the Sharma family? How does she feel about the situation with the Sheffields? I'm not sure we get a solid answer on any of these, she's just Big Mad until she's not.
My only real "criticism " of season 2 is the love triangle. That's really a personal preference though. I think love triangles are often lazy writing tools used to create overdramatic plot lines.
In the book she was smarter and less innocent miss. She was aware of all the family’s money issues and was actually participating in the plan to fix them. She was aware of the attraction between Kate and Anthony and played a little bit of Cupid role; and had fun teasing Kate with Kate oblivious because of her denial. She had a truer idea of what could make her happy, which she seized when she no longer felt the pressure of being the family’s future. I liked TV Edwina, but I really missed book Edwina.
My biggest criticism of the adaptation in season 2 is that (to me) Edwina feels more wide-eyed and naive than in the book… mostly to her detriment I would have loved for her to realise the tension and attraction before she made it to the altar, and that conflict to happen earlier
I enjoyed s2 way more than s1 tbh. I love Kate and I hope she stays and has a role in the next seasons (I wouldn’t even mind a glimpse of edwina and the prince)
I honestly think that people who hates or complains on season 2 and its subplot and upcoming season 3, they watch the series with the plot and story going over their, they're so focused on compairing it to books and looking for sex scenes. The series actually gave more depth to the overall story and characters. I agree I really hope showrunners don't listen to them
I’m curious to know what are your thoughts about them adding Theo Sharp, in sort of a romance with Eloise. Your last video about Bridgerton, you mentioned you imagined Eloise with someone who backs her up on what she says, instead of Sir Phillip. I found that really interesting, because I never really thought about this idea, but it does seem like it would be an interesting dynamic, and I do think Theo could be in that part. He seems more like someone who would back up Eloise, compared to Sir Phillip on the books, specially because they are more similar and seem to share similar views (mostly on equal rights for women), at least that’s what I got from their scenes together. I don’t know if they’ll give up on the book romance to be able to explore that, but I do think it’s a possibility, since they introduced Marina so well on the series. I don’t know if the series producers would be willing to kill off a character like Marina, that got a decent amount of attention on season 1, specially on the circumstances of her death on the book, and all of that so Eloise can get with Sir Phillip, while she has a pretty decent match already presented to us. It just seems too much scandalous, and the producers seem to try keep controversial scenes from the books out of the series. On another hand, I think the only reason we got to see her again on season 2 was to show that she’s unhappy, as clearly stated. I do think the producers of the show are able to work with the romance between Eloise and Phillip, but I don’t think it wouldn’t be anything like the books, just like Anthony and Kate. I’m really curious to know what path they’ll decide to take with her.
No one:
Julia: If Penelope has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Penelope has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Penelope has only one fan then that is me. If Penelope has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Penelope, then I am against the world.
I’m in the same camp
Same
Nicola really is an icon
She's the Christine of Selling Sunset.
Team Penelope all the way
I actually enjoyed Season 2 more than the first, a rarity for me. Kate and Anthony just had more chemistry compared to Simon and Daphne, and the "Enemies to Lovers" plot is far more compelling to me than the "Fake relationship pact inevitably becomes real."
also no marital assault! :)
Yep agreed. They had less sex scenes and yet they were 20x hotter this season with LOOKS
Omg @Trina Q I feel like we watch the same channels! I always come across your comments lol. Great taste 😂
i feel completely the opposite - i just really don’t buy that anthony is attracted to any of the girls in the show. i don’t know why, but it just made me uncomfortable. also i couldn’t help but just read anthony as deeply misogynistic and i don’t know why kate was even attracted to him. i watched for eloise and theo
I second the chemistry thing.I didn't like season 1 that much but I adore season 2. I think it's because I feel like the actress of played Daphne came off too meek/unsure and was less interesting. The actress in season 2 seemed much more confident and made Daphne more interesting as a character than I read her as in season 1. The actress who played Kate seemed much more confident and that helped really sell a lot of the interactions between her and Anthony.
The book isn’t always better, and people only think it is because they don’t understand the nuances of switching mediums, and Bridgerton is a really good case study of this phenomenon.
I've never read these books (or honestly got very far in the series but I like watching people talk about it) The Notebook is my personal example of this.
I read 3 of the books, and hated them! so much toxic bs in them... the show is 100 times better...
AND THATS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE ALL MY LIFE LOL
So far this series is a way more appealing adaptation and a good case for not being married to a book. Because even the changes that annoy me...are just better narratively for a tv show.
@@zurzakne-etra7069 I feel like the fandom does not recognize how good the cast is and how they're just "bringing" it even in the background
God, the not-so-subtle racism and misogyny that permeate the Bridgeton fandom (specifically on twitter) is insane.
Meanwhile...my dumbass is over here having the gay-panics over Simone Ashley. C'est La Vie, I guess...
@@the_lorax9079 honestly same. She's so gorgeous
And fatphobia! Can't forget the fatphobia
@@daninmills i am TERRIFIED of how this is going to play (in the fandom/audience (out during season 3
Alot of people hated Anthony before his season too and now everyone is Gaga for him. Sometimes you need to bring characters to their lowest so you can bring them up to their best.
yes! and that’s called good writing! multi faceted characters who show growth and healing is always something people can relate to!
Exactly! There’s nothing wrong with people disliking Penelope. It only gives her room to grow.
it might have been the God awful sideburns
It was the hideous sideburns, lol.....
I had to pause in episode 3 when we got his backstory and be like 'wait. Do I like him now?!'
I saw one guy say “people don’t want an adaptation of their book, they want a dramatization” and some book fans just won’t admit that some book plots, themes, and ways of storytelling do not make a good tv show
FACTS!
YES! and if the adaptation was completely accurate to the books, the general public would not be pleased with some of the weird content.
My personal problem with the Bridgerton fandom is that their expectation is Wattpad. Like any character somehow being complex and having real problems automatically makes them annoying.
Two of my favorite scenes of the whole show were the fight between Eloise and Penelope and where Edwina blows up on Kate. There were actual stakes: both pairs had an incredibly strong relationship, REAL reasons to be upset with each other while also understandable reasons on why they acted the way they did.
But I guess the fans would rather see corny lines between the main couple. But also I'm in the minority who preferred the main couple of S1 but the side plots of S2.
they want fanfiction, it's true! fluff only, and that's just not what the show is
Edwina was amazing in the show. Fans that hate her and call her spoiled and insipid are stupid lmao sorry
Glad to hear I’m not the only one who preferred the main couple in season one and the side characters in season two
say it louder for the ppl in the back fr. if penelope was constantly pleasant and edwina remained one dimensional it would be so boring
That....makes sense
also i like edwina
it's silly to claim she takes away from kate when she is a huge part of who kate is as a person
i've seen people claim that since she is a quarter white, she must feel herself superior to kate. instead of just being heartbroken for the first time in her life and angry that her sister Lied to her
@@sauleiwanderapfelstrudel the quarter white thing doesn’t make sense because Bridgerton is set in a colorblind world
@@sauleiwanderapfelstrudel : Because she is a "quarter white" she MUST feel superior. Wow white
supremacy even in the Bridgerton world???? Did the sister "lie" to her, or did she
"withhold" information from her???
@@rosyreverie is it? they are from India, and the queen being Black is a big part of the show. By colourblind do u mean racism doesn't exist? I thought lady Danberry and Simon have a talk abt it?
I agree with you. I think most people would act the same way as Edwina did in her situation. Edwina and Kate have a beautiful relationship and I can't help seeing Edwina like my own sister, who I'd do anything to protect and sacrifice my desire for.
I understand someone thinking Penelope is a bad person for her actions, but I will never understand anyone claiming that she’s a bad character.
Penelope is so interesting!! She’s incredibly multifaceted. She’s shy and kind while also having the capacity to be searingly mean and selfish. She’s incredibly observant and probably the smartest character on the show (sorry Eloise, you’re great too!) And yes, she’s a morally grey character, but how does that not make her better?? It is so interesting to watch an otherwise soft-spoken character make big, controversial decisions. Do people just want protagonists who always do the right thing all the time, never making any mistakes or bad decisions?
I just think Penelope is probably the most layered and nuanced character in the show and she did that as a supporting character. I’d love to see what they do with her character as a lead!
Yes! I also feel that Lady Featherington had an ebb and flow of completely terrible to maybe awful but for the right reasons. Overall, I think the featheringtons story line is interesting in contrast with the Bridgertons. And they are very multi layered!
This! And I thought we liked it when characters who left in the background because they are more soft spoken or passive start to find their voice?? I thought we were along for the journey because growth is messy and interesting? I thought we loved the Lexi's of the world
Also, I think they are setting up a more interesting conflict between her and Colin.
Spoiler
What if marina dies during their season, seeing the regret Colin already has, given Penelope’s role in her fate… drama.
Penelope is my favorite
"Do people just want protagonists who always do the right thing all the time" given how almost nonexistent these characters are, and how they are almost always hated and called "boring" I would say no, people don't want them either. It's like you can never win. 🤷♀
Personally, I want more genuinely kind and well-meaning (but still flawed and complex) characters.
like a very large part of kate's character unlike daphne IS her backstory. she stepped in as the head of the house when her father died, she raised her half-sister to be a perfect heir (by the way if i did all that work in the middle of early 1800s india and all i got was I'm Only Your HALF-Sister i would be way more pissed than kate was) she dragged everyone to london to grab her sister a suitor, she's the main spur of the story.
not having a single flashback of her life in india (or even specifying where or WHAT in india she's planning on returning to!!!!) is a detriment to the story.
although it DOES mean we don't have to see any racially insensitive caricatures so it's probably for the best
anyway great vid i agree 1000%, the problem isn't the amount of kate vs anybody else but that the showrunners quickly ran out of things for her to do after her relationship with anthony came to light
i do agree on that fact that they should've gone more into detail in Kate's backstory (a flashback episode dedicated to her like Anthony's would've been interesting) but I do remember her saying once or twice that she was going to return to India to become a governess or something similar? I could be wrong (or I could be interpreting your statement incorrectly) but I do remember her saying something about that while she was on the boat with Anthony's Oxford friend.
@@barbaraniven5773 good point! i wasn't paying 100% attention to that scene.
i was just bringing it up to show how every countryside and suburb in england has a name where India (10x the size of england) in the last couple of episodes was referred to only as... India.
just interesting how non-european countries get sidelined in mainstream media is all, not really a bridgerton-specific fault just a general trend here in the west
in edwina's defense she just found out her sister and fiance were having an emotional affair behind her back on the day of her wedding. it was still wrong to say but after the shitshow she just went through i don't exactly fault her for being petty.
I totally agree with your points. Also, like when Lady Danbury asked Kate if there was someone back home she had not said anything about? I was like "Oh shit! that would be so good, especially since they made her older in the series." Not doing that, along with not utilizing Mr. Dorsett to twist the jealousy knife into Anthony gave me all the evidence I needed that there are NO writers in that room of Hispanic origin, because those two things alone would have added delicious layers of drama.
@@neosaneo2 No don’t worry I wasn’t trying to attack you or anything and I completely agree that they’re essentially making all of South Asia a monolith (especially because I’ve heard that ‘didi’ and ‘bon’ are from the wrong language or dialect.)
Also you’re completely right about non-european countries - exoticism sucks
if they listen to the fans and make eloise's story accurate to the book im jumping off of a bridge
Most people are coming around to the changes.. but yeah please change Eloise’s heavily. Wish they would changed the Daphne rape scene as well
Don't jump Ariana; it is all make-believe and not worth losing your life over. Take time and
go write your own make-believe love story, and write it like you would like it to end.
Well I believe that Netflix signed a contract with Julia Quinn that made them agree that all the book ships have to be endgame in the show as well, so I don’t think they have a choice to make them not be together
@@optimysticpeaches I think it's fine that Eloise and Philip end up together, as long as they make him the complete opposite of his book character. I really liked the season 2 scene of him and Colin discussing their travels, and I would love it if he actually becomes close friends with all of the Bridgertons.
@@maaike4 yeah I don’t know much about Philip except what this video has said, I’m only on the first book, but I think that based on the character development of all the other characters, I’m sure they could turn him around hopefully. I’m guessing marina is gonna have to die at some point in the next two seasons though for that to happen. She could also just be somehow caught up in a marriage with him and then theo is her side chick or something😂
Even with Kate and Anthony’s story, I found the changes they made were absolutely fantastic!
1) Taking away the repetition of the forced marriage
2) Changing the trauma bonding library scene
3) Removing/Changing any non-consensual stuff/violence (“I will stop” “Do _not_ stop”)
4) Changing Anthony’s reasons for wanting to get married
5) Actually making Edwina a conflict for Kate (Kate sacrificing Anthony for her sister did SO much more to explain her character to the audience than simply telling us that she sacrifices everything for her)
6) Kate actually being secure in herself when it comes to Anthony
The adaptation was great!
I agree with most except Edwina. It was just too much drama and made the two leads look like terrible people. Plus gave Edwina much more screentime and the leads are already suffering from not enough screentime.
Completely agree! Finally some intelligent people 🥰😂
fun fact, the “I will stop” “Do not stop” was improv'd by jonathan bailey in that moment!
@@willow_thea that is why we all love this man! He is a great actor!
“I don’t like my rights being denied” I ALMOST VOMITED Kate was in the trenches wtf
I am glad you have the same level of patience of fans going "I wish the male lead got more scenes of him being a borderline r*pist" as I do. Which is None sjsjjsks
But also god I love when people decide to pit women (ESPECIALLY women of color) against each other. Edwina is such a necessary part of the story and if you don't love her then you don't love Kate I said what I said.
All facts
!!!!!!
@@mellmellody they're being sarcastic
Was Edwina perfect? No. Do I want to watch a show about perfect people being perfect? Also no. I barely registered Edwina in my memories of having read the book, honestly. There's literally nothing to defend in her; someone could have painted "rah-rah, go Kate and Anthony, love you together!" on the wallpaper and it would have served the same purpose.
Show Edwina was a bumpy ride at times but at least she took us for a ride! Book Edwina never even left the garage!
let me put some white people in a story based on africa's tribes
I read The Viscount Who Loved Me after season 2 expecting a rivals to lovers romance between equals, but instead it was about a violent man provoking and assaulting an insecure young girl. I still liked some of it, but I don't understand people who prefer the book.
Also wasn't there a scene where Anthony forcibly kissed Kate after he found her under the desk?
THIS!!! I was listening to the book while driving and I was literally screaming from frustration during the scene of their 1st kiss - he was so violent.
@@xolotte yeah 😬 i still didn't want to read the worst bits
@@juliacudney Yeah, I understand. And on a more positive note, I absolutely love Penelope (she's my favorite character even)! You are not alone when it comes to defending her 😊
YES SAME I was so disappointed with the book and so much happier that the show was written the way it was
THAT IS MY REASONING BEHIND LOVING PENELOPE. she is complicated! she is hypocritical! but shes also SMART and LOVING and FUNNY and LOYAL (yes loyal she saved eloise and the bridgertons from social destitution argue with the wall) she is so beautifully HUMAN! the most realistic character julia quinn has created but of course people just reduce her to bitter and mean :D
I don't get the Penelope hate. Like...Eloise is not about to go be with Theo y'all, she's an indoor cat. I know the actor is cute, but the character was crusty and condescending. It was not vibes. Pen saved her friends ass from eating potatoes and raising a kid with rickets in a shack.
More or less ? I personally don’t like Penelope for most of the reasons you’ve stated, because I prefer human character who either choose to be good (like Edwina) or to be buck wild and like, CRUEL. Not that wishy-washy hypocritical nonsense. Ik it’s dumb but I just cannot stand people like her both in real life and in fiction 😅 But I do think your reasoning is a 100% valid !
The only thing though is that she isn’t really the most realistic character Julia Quinn as ever created, because she’s nothing you described previously in the book. In the books, Whistledown isn’t mean and only roasts people on fashion choices, she never gets involved with the Queen and therefore never “saves” the Bridgertons from ruin, besides lying to Eloise to keep her secret she’s a sweetheart all the way through her book. So yeah give credit to the writers, not to Julia on this one !
@@happyjellycatsquid that is true, the writers def changed a lot about her lw journey but i also find penelope so relatable in the books. her self doubts, her relationship with her mother etc. imo the featheringtons are like this middle ground between the perfect loving bridgertons and the really evil parents like simons dad, sophies family, etc, so thats kinda what i meant in that penelope is so relatable in how she sees herself and the world around her. and remember penelope is 18, hypocrisy is annoying but everyone does it, it’s human nature
@@emmaline88 Im also 18, I don’t think her age justify being a vile person ahah. I do like Penelope in the book, she’s sweet but no a doormat to Collin’s bs ahah
@@FreyaEinde Eloise absolutely was carrying the Ivory Tower torch this season (I guess the "but how do stove work?" moment was S1's big stand-out bit of pampered idiocy, outside of "but how do sperm work?" Both of which would require servants to resolve.) From the first moment she turned up and shoved her nose in the air and started spewing her usual brand of "Well Actually...Women are People But of Course You've Never Thought of That Before, Pea-Brain," I felt she had to have SOME kind of comeuppance if she expected to dip a toe into the waters of the underclass and decided to judge Theo by the same metric she judges the wealthy and aristocratic men in her orbit. Like, does she think the printer's apprentice squandered his opportunity to go to university, which every boy must get simply for being a boy? Misogyny could take other forms in lower classes, of course; but so much of her focus with Theo is debating ideas about education and liberation and not once does Eloise even seem to consider very thoroughly that equal access to that is not solely divided along lines of gender, and not also lines of class/wealth. And he fired back in kind, and she kind of needed to be knocked down a peg or two (but was she, really, even?) but the antagonism did not...make me love them, because it came out of utter inequality in their dynamic. She was just too ready to resent him and he returned the favour and I'm ready to call it quits with the newsie.
I absolutely hate Sir Phillip as he's written, don't get me wrong; but Theo is nowhere near an adequate replacement hero and Eloise is neither ready for nor deserving of the love of anybody in the lower classes.
Can’t wait for your Sophie “little rat girl” spreadsheet next season
I'm not all the way through the video yet, but I passed the threshold of the spreadsheet and felt like I was going to explode. I'm a commercial romance writer, and I also write it in my spare time. When I write romance for a company, I inevitably get the same instructions: no side characters with plots, the main female isn't allowed to speak overly much unless she's the love INTEREST (so, if the Bridgerton novels were from a Bridgerton-only perspective, Daphne wouldn't be allowed to talk but Kate would be), and everything has to be reminding the reader that the two love interests are GOING to pound town, all for the benefit of this enormously loud fraction of fans.
I agree wholeheartedly with Julia when she said these people would be the WORST showrunners. I MUCH preferred season two, because I bought in to the romance more! I liked all the deviations for the Featheringtons being shady and the actual genuine interaction between Bridgerton siblings that wasn't just Anthony yelling at Daphne. If these fans want to watch two people have sex to the exclusion of all other plot and characters, there's an entire industry out there waiting for their patronage. Just because a piece contains sex doesn't mean that it has to do so to the detriment of everything else.
TLDR if you don't like porn with plot, just go watch porn. It will not only improve fandom spaces, but writer's rooms as well.
it’s so interesting to hear about from a publishing perspective! i didn’t know these are critiques romance writers get from higher up
Sucks that side characters don't get any plot nor the MFL isn't allowed to speak.
So.... The things the company is telling you are the EXACT REASONS I don't read romance. I want a well-fleshed out story with interesting characters who feel real, and that means they have to have relationships and interactions outside of the love interest.
@@elle8786 It's a very common sentiment and I feel like I should clarify that I'm usually on the very cheap end of content: I by no means write for anything on the scale of netflix lol. When it comes to quick money making through content, though, these exact types of people will pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to read exactly what they want. Think After and Fifty Shades: side characters are props for the romance or non-existent, main characters get to passively observe a much more interesting love interest...it's a huge bummer to write a whole B plot that gets cut because it isn't main couple material.
I agree with you so much about Penelope. I think so much of the hate for her character is rooted in audiences refusing to see the stakes for her as Lady Whistledown. A lot of people think she’s just being Lady Whistledown for fun, when in reality it’s implied that her mom does not care about marrying her off - instead, her mom is actively ensuring that she doesn’t find a husband by not caring about her success in the marriage market and by sticking her in god awful dresses. Her work as LW is in many ways a means of having an income in case she doesn’t find a husband. And that raises the stakes but also humanizes her a lot more. But because many vocal fans have expressed their hatred of subplot since s1, we can’t see those stakes more explicitly played out on screen. If it were up to me, I’d ask for more Penelope because she really deserves and her character is the most interesting out of the entire cast line up!!!
not only did i really like and appreciate the changes they made to The Viscount Who Loved Me (the bee scene ended up being one of my favorite scenes too! as opposed to how pretty awful it was in the book), the relief i felt when marina was still alive and theo was introduced was enormous cause im hoping eloise ends up with a love interest who actually deserves her
Yes, but theo should have been a woman (Not that many male feminists in the beginning and i think that it is kinda cringe of the showrunners to force heterosexual romance on eloise if they are going to change her whole story anyway) and i will die on this hill haha
Yeah no, I think the writers were so lazy in giving us an early 19th century male feminist (who apparently writes a pamphlet on it?) and not delving into any of his reasoning and motivation beyond “he likes Eloise but he’s rightly concerned about the social class difference” like honestly he had the potential to be such an interesting character and they did nothing with it. Also yeah, queer Eloise should be canon!!
i definitely am hoping for a lot more of a deep dive into the eloise, theo romance in the upcoming seasons. also i've seen many people want a queer storyline for eloise, which of course i would love. but man i really need one for benedict, i mean i feel like in the show at least there seemed to be more moments to build off of that so far.
Jeez, I couldn't read the bee scene in the book, I was reading like every second word - so cringy. Thank god they changed in the TV show.
Kate& Anthony had so much chemistry, it baffles me people can’t see it. Like the moment they met, you could feel it lol. Do
viewers need everyone to always say their feelings aloud to understand the longing looks and slight touches that a ship has for each other ?? It was so obvious
No, for some people, chemistry = sex scenes. That's what it all comes down to. Doesn't matter that the main leads are dead behind the eyes, if they have sex, that's chemistry to them.
@@justiulia94 Yeah, I blame western TV. Been into Asian TV for years, and while they have more misogyny at least they still know what feelings are. Here love was replaced by lust and sex. Hopefully we see more of shows like S2. It's refreshing!
Their chemistry was one of the most insane I have ever seen! Like their whole dynamic in the series, personality-wise (and true to the time period) is the concept of self-restraint. Idk, viewers tend to forget that this was a different time, it was not just about you and your wants and needs. There was honor, duty, responsibility and a detailed process for every interaction and while you do not have to like it, that is how it was.
@@gianellab.4953 Girl, I gotchu! The heavy tension and slow-burn thing is not surprising for people who watch asian dramas. They have that, make you squeal at the smallest interaction, then yell like a proud parent when they get together thing down to a damn SCIENCE!
@@justiulia94 thissss!!!
as someone who (unfortunately) did spend some time on the bridgerton subreddit, yeah their takes were equally baffling lol. i saw a lot of comments on the wedding episode complaining that it was too dramatic and i was like damn we are watching this show for very different reasons. i thought we were all here specifically for the drama but i guess not! some people just wanted zero conflict and i don't get it, that would be so boring. thank you for having correct opinions, julia, it's so reassuring to know that i'm not crazy
Guessing they want their tea flavorless then.
They want socially acceptable erotica, not a compelling story line
The subreddit had absolute hiatus brainworms from well before the promo started dropping. First it was "where's the promo they clearly are stupid and hate us" and then it became "this promo is stupid and clearly they hate us". I remember a time where we just had trailers maybe a month out from a premiere and maybe a teaser with no dialogue and that was fine. But some fans are counting up their photos and their press interviews and official gifs and clips one through seven and the teaser and the full trailer and somehow--SOMEHOW--it's still NOT ENOUGH and all those professional marketing teams for this major streaming and production company are morons who don't know their business and how it's going to be THEIR own fault (and Shonda and CVD's) when S2 is a FLOP and...[touches earpiece] hold on I'm getting the viewing numbers in...
@@GotLostProductions It's oddly comforting to know humans will always recreate fandom in the same way every time they get interested in a form of media. These old fandom wanks? They're my oldest friends
Edit: HEY I KNOW YOU I'VE GOT THE REVIEW OF MR DARCY TAKES A WIFE OPEN IN ANOTHER TAB
@@cam4636 OH MY GOD GHOSTS OF TUMBLRING PAST COME BACK TO HAUNT MEEEE lol I get the sweats thinking of those books.
I liked Edwina. I thought her story line was really interesting since she was portrayed to be really naive and fragile, especially from Kate’s view. once Kate comes clean about the romance and the plot with the grandparents, Edwina actually handles it with maturity, proving Kate wrong. Edwina acting maturely about all the drama really showed how immature Kate and Anthony were being. I thought it was a great empowering arc for Edwina.
When Edwina finally snapped and yelled at Kate I was so excited. She deserved that moment so much
i find it so weird people dislike her, calling her naive or blind for not noticing kathony's feelings for each other and shit on her way more than on kathony for having an emotional affair behind their sister and fiance's back respectively. i love kathony but if i was edwina i would not have acted so maturely i would've done everything to ruin their lives akdjaksjdak
I don’t understand the dislike for Edwina. I actually preferred her character over Kate
@@velescope white women always do.
@@portmantoast3512 Imagine simping for the spoiled brat that was Edwina.
i watched the show before reading the books and was amazed at how...awful the books were. like props to shonda for turning those books into great shows honestly
This happened with True Blood also, at least to start off with. The books were set in a Deep South without Afro Americans. Cough.
@@pennyblack8274 I’m sorry in True Blood, it was set in south of the U.S without having ANY RESEMBLANCE of colored individuals let alone black folks??? That is honestly crazyyy 😮
i like (mostly) everything about season 2 more than season 1
i actually PREFER when there's a fair amount of subplots and the romance is like an undercurrent, slowly shifting and developing... it just leaves with a lot more to be desired and i guess im a sucker for slow burn what can i say
also i didnt care for the sex scenes in s1. to me daphne/simon's relationship was ruined after they got married. i did not like the turn their relationship took at ALL. kate and anthony were perfect all the way through
I agree with everything you said
Exactly. I liked both leads, I enjoyed their romance and also liked Anthony's arc. Daphne was so unlikable from the beginning and only got worse and Simon was so underdeveloped, but from what we got he is definitely an abused spouse.
exactly how i feel. after simon and daphne have their first sex scene, everything after that I was completely tuned out of cause it was just non stop sex, and then *that* scene happened and I was even more out of it
Its surprising but not shocking that this season's critiques feature more anti-women rhetoric than the first season, which literally featured female-lead sexual abuse towards a man
my thing is that scam plotline felt like such a tedious, long-winded way to figure out feathers getting their wealth back. pen, fly on the wall that she is, not picking up on the scam and not being affected by the reveal felt weird. ends on a heartfelt lady feather moment but it's so unearned. "im a mother i care about my daughters more than anything" when all she does is be rude to her daughters. 🤨 felt like time we could've spent developing kate or pen. i will always support the girls though. i hope pen kills someone next season. straight eloise sent a deep chill through my bones.
Don't forget uses her daughters as pawns.
Yeah that was the only side plot I didn’t enjoy as much. Love the actors involved but nah. She called the other daughter stupid, manipulates her into marriage, and makes fun of Penelope all the time.
I think she is looking out for them, because she likes the status associated with finding a good match? I don’t know how much that would actually be the case. Either that, or she just likes her daughters more than a man. She just doesn’t like them either that much.
I think an important reference to the first season is when she said (paraphrase): “you won’t find a man you love, but you’ll have children and eventually they’ll be enough.” Maybe her children, despite her actual opinion of them, are all she has left?
Maybe she does love her children, but ultimately doesn’t agree with who they are? Or loves them despite her low opinion of them. Again, which is really weird but not surprising for a historical novel. I think it was maybe just a ‘yeah feminism!’ moment.
Yesss I feel like too much time was spent on them and wished there was a bit more time with Kate and Anthony.
It’s a very Cersei Lannister moment. They could portray a mother character that doesn’t care much for her children, or having that be an extra aspect of her character rather than what defines her. They’re exclusively boxed into: I love my kids and I am very kind, or I love my kids but I am a bitch.
I guess her having a romantic plot line is actually an improvement of other characterisations of mothers in general. And people don’t watch regency romances for nuanced mother characters.
@@TheOtherChosenOnes great reference to the line in season one, i totally forgot about it. maybe they could've expanded on it this season, but instead she's back on her comedy relief schemer behaviour for 95% of her s2 plot. the weight put into her "i care about my daughters" line in s2 felt like such a misplaced change in tone. i agree that it feels like a big feminism one-liner without much depth or actual feminist thinking to back it up.
which, yeah, it's the sort of thing where a nuanced portrayal of her relationship with motherhood and the oppressive nature of regency marriage could be really interesting and well done, but i think most people aren't particularly interested in her as a character for the writers to consider that. but they still devote so much time to a stock scam plotline (+ leave the s1 plot with her husband dead in the water), which only ends up affecting bg characters.
totally rambling now, but i do think the scam plotline was put in as a convoluted way to patch over their money issues so it wouldn't interrupt pen's season. feels awkward to me.
I’m almost positive a good 20% of the views on your first Bridgerton video were from me…it’s literally my comfort video
Saaaaame
Edit: 2 months later I am once again here
Lol, proof there’s people very specifically and weirdly just like me!
Who else agrees Julia should be the only one allowed to have an opinion about Bridgerton! 🙋🏽♂️
Respectfully disagree, as other creators with different backgrounds have a lot of great opinions to offer as well
@@mixolydia3309 someone didn’t watch the video 🙄 it’s a joke
@@Buzz0Killington yeah I didn’t remember the entirety of a 45 min video, sue me
@@mixolydia3309 she literally says it within the first 15 mins
@@Buzz0Killington I’m not trying to fight you about anything. I’m sorry that I didn’t get your joke and made myself look foolish. But my comment still stands.
Some of the "fans" are insane and crazy. As a South Indian brown skinned person myself, it is racist to brand the choices you don't like as racism.
It's not right to mask your own hateful feelings toward the show as "racism" There's nothing more racist that pitting two women of minority backgrounds, and using them as your tools to be hateful online... It's no wonder that so many of the cast members either left twitter or limit their comments and posts on other soc meds
let me put some white people in a story based on africa's tribes
@@CTM418 yeah I'm sure you are on such a supreme IQ level compared to everyone who doesn't watch bridgerton Clara
@@CTM418 don't really care tbh
@@CTM418 you aren't bringing much to this argument, classic bridgerton fanatic
@@CTM418 did start off one, you just can't continue it and are instead being a salty minge
Honestly I love how dramatic Penelope and the lady Whistledown plotline is! Her big fight with Eloise was a great culmination for both of the character's trajectories over the course of the season. I really like that Penelope is a very complicated character who isn't a perfect angel or just straight up a bad person; she's got a vindictive streak in her that I find really fascinating, especially compared to how it came out in season 2 vs season 1. In season 1 it feels more selfishly motivated since while she's trying to protect Collin from potential social ruin, a lot of it feels more like lashing out at Marina for pursuing the man she loves. But in season 2 I completely understand why she did what she did, it really was to protect Eloise and she didn't see any other way to do it, since Lady Whistledown is really the only way she's ever found to have any power in her life. That doesn't make it right, but Peneople is a young girl in a bad situation and she did the best that she could. But that doesn't mean her actions were entirely unselfish, since there was some motivation in how she was jealous of how close Eloise had grown to Theo and that Eloise was abandoning her. BUT EVEN THEN I find that to be more compelling than the season 1 conflict because it really felt like a symptom of Penelope coming from an abusive household that treats her horribly and Eloise being one of the only people who really cares about her for who she is. I just love morally ambiguous female characters!!!
Yes 100%. i think complex women characters is very empowering for women in general, bc women are complex and morally ambiguous human beings!
I liked season 2 more than season 1 in pretty much every way. I don’t watch the show for the sex scenes and constant scenes of romance. I arguably like the scenes with others characters and side plots MORE than the main plot. I really enjoyed the more scenes between the Bridgerton siblings this season, and the side plots with them and others. If the show became what I’ve heard the books are, nothing more than a repetitive romance story over and over, I would probably stop watching it. So I sincerely hope the writers don’t listen to people who want that.
Yeah I agree, the constant romance some people are advocating for sounds horrible. I like the subplots
I completely agree! Loved the whistledown subplot, it was more fun to see the friends and sibling interactions than the romance drama imo
I fully agree. The fact that there was less sex in this season made me like it more. I also really enjoyed the side plots which is rare in a show like this for me.
I agree. The subplots make the universe feel more fleshed out. I’d argue that the stolen glances and hand touching are more period-appropriate than going on dates and discussing masturbation. No disrespect to season one, but season two makes my Austen-loving heart very happy.
I don’t think people want that.
Also, the way Colin says he's not interested in Penelope in the show, I feel like they're leaving themselves legroom for it to be a misunderstanding ("I meant you were by dearest friend, I couldn't think of you romantically until ABC moment")..
And like, we directly, 6(?) episodes earlier had Kate getting mad at Anthony for saying something that i believe he said in some sort of weird "male male" interaction y'know? So, similar thing.
I feel Colin never even thought about Pen that way until someone suggested he was courting her that very moment. I'm more confused not more people picked up on that moment and they all went "boohoo, bad men!" Happy I wasn't the only one.
I also think that, but I still don’t like him 😅
This scenario happened to Book version Colin (Don't read further if you don't want to be spoiled :) ) ,
however he was with his brothers and he saw Pen right after he said it. Pen got an apology from the Bridgerton brothers and Anthony brought her home. She was going home after chatting with Eloise when it happened.
In the book, Colin was fed up with his mom always asking him to dance with Penelope in parties and asking him continuously about getting her as a match.
@@April_idk Agreed. Colin doesn't own it to Penelope to like/love her back. So he has every right to not want to court her and people shouldn't blame him for that.
But given their respective social status, he should have been more sensible about it. The way he phrased it is insulting. He could just have said "No, I am not courting her. She's a friend." But he had to phrase it in an insulting way that implies she is not dating material Period. Colin IS a leading member of society. The way he made it look like courting her is nonsense doesn't help her (already very low) chances with another eligible young man. So other than having her heart broken, he pretty much ruined any chance she might have had at making a match, even less a good one. So for that, she has every right to be upset.
I also highly suspect that he DOES reciprocate her feelings (or is starting to in S2) but doesn't realize it yet. The way he looks at her and his general body language and actions when it comes to her are often ambiguous. And this could echo the part of the book where he doesn't know if he loves her or not because it doesn't feel like this overpowering burning desire the books/poems describe (which aligns with a friends-to-lovers plotline where they've known each other for so long his feelings grew slowly and he also took her for granted).
i truly believe the people that don't like pen, just have a problem with understanding nuance and complexity and have low interpretation skills and a lot of the hate she receives is definetly rooted in fatphobia, that being said, the vast majority of people still love pen/polin and will enjoy their season, if not, we can make it up for them.
This, I was so confused when I read the internet on it. I for a while pondered if they missed an episode or something... just to realize people are just not "understanding" and have very little room for trying to understand someone that does not fit our image of perfection in several ways.
And then there's the people that absolutely don't have this judgmental view of the world not understanding Colin's rude denial of courting Pen, because she indeed doesn't fit the image a Bridgerton should court. Says a lot about the viewers, fans and our current society.
I don't agree/like a lot of Pen's actions throughout season 2, but she did not deserve what ended up happening to her in my opinion and like you said there's a lot of fatphobia there.
i appreciate her as a character but as a person i still can't get over what she did to marina in S1. however i am hella biased as marina is easily my favourite character in both seasons. when she dies im gonna cry
i personally was so angry with pen the entire season 2. but i do know that is what makes a good character. if you are genuinely angry it's just good acting and writing. she also has plenty of nuance in that she does have good intentions mostly, but she also messed up badly in many ways. so her storyline could go so many ways, and it would feel genuine.
I'm not going to defend her actions. But I wonder, if she were ~conventionally attractive~, how many people suddenly would.
My secret wish, if the producers aren't going to go by the book and have Eloise write to and fall in love with Sir Phillip Crane, is NOT for Eloise to be with the printerboy, but to FINALLY notice the looks the Bridgerton FOOTMAN gives to her when he fetches her everywhere at her command!!! He sure looks like he has the hots for Miss Eloise!!!!!
Wait what?
I thought the same thing!!
Yesss that would be so fun!!!
this is a galaxy brain take and i love it
@@beatm6948 Go back even to Season 1 and watch the face of the cute footman that Eloise bribes to take her to try and prevent Whistledown from being caught by the Queen's henchmen. He shows up throughout Season 2 taking Eloise to the printer's shop and the lecture. Watch his face dealing with Eloise!!!
So as someone who also read all of the books and is USUALLY a person who is all about staying loyal to the books I agree they made the story better with the changes. My main problem in the book was that while I liked Kate I did not like Anthony because he was such an ASSHOLE in the books. I loved Anthony in the show because they removed what wasn't working in the books something they should have done in season one with the whole Daphne SEXUALLY ASSAULTS Simon thing that they somehow DECIDED TO KEEP. Book to screen adaption is all about figuring out what works and what needs to be changed either because it doesn't translate well in a visual medium or because the story could actually be IMPROVED if certain changes were made. I hope that judging by this season moving forward they'll continue sticking to the parts of the story that works and improving or changing the things that didn't work in the books. .Cough Chough Sir Phillips ENTIRE CHARACTER.
This is petty AF .. and I LOVE it!
Diane!!! A fellow Irish gal :))))
I say all of this with the caveat that Eloise and Penelope are my two favorite characters in the whole show and their friendship is the relationship I'm most invested in across the entire series: I actually think Eloise and Penelope's friendship in the show is a really astute exploration of privilege, and also that Penelope has never done anything wrong, ever, in her entire life and anyone who thinks she has is probably themselves quite privileged and also missing the entire point.
Eloise could, theoretically, do anything with her life. She's rich, she comes from a big family with older brothers so she has no need to marry or have kids, she's thin, she's pretty. She could run off tomorrow and take some sort of bohemian tour of the continent and write radical novels or whatever and never come back to England and no one would care or notice. But she doesn't, because Eloise talks a big revolutionary game and has all these ideals but, as we saw this season, ultimately lacks any courage to follow through on them because she's more comfortable complaining and blaming other people ‐ something Penelope very astutely points out in their fight. Penelope, on the other hand, is unfortunately kinda fucked. She's from a family with no money and a poor reputation, she's one of three girls, and she's not considered conventionally attractive or having any other qualities that would make her an enticing marriage prospect. Her writing Lady Whistledown is more than just a fun thing she does because it pads her ego to be good at something (which for the record would in and of itself be a completely valid reason for her to do it!!! She deserves to find her purpose and calling as much as any Bridgerton brother!!!!), it's her only means of providing for herself for her future.
Eloise doesn't seem to care at all about Penelope's circumstances. She never listens to Penelope's thoughts, feelings, or opinions. She repeatedly takes for granted that Penelope will offer support for whatever dumb thing Eloise decides she wants to do, when Eloise decides she wants that support, and not bother her or ask anything of her when Eloise doesn't want to give it. She ignores Penelope's warnings about how her behavior is going to get her in trouble and then has the absolute audacity to somehow make it PENELOPE'S fault that Eloise's poor judgment and rashness and unwillingness to listen puts Penelope in a position where her only choices are to betray Eloise a little or betray Eloise a lot. Eloise thinks Penelope had other choices of what she could have done with her life, but that's a function of her own privilege and projection: ELOISE had other choices. ELOISE could have behaved better or at least been slightly more considerate of the effect her actions might have on other people. ELOISE is for a change forced to face some consequences for her actions instead of being indulged, and it's only because of how loyal a friend Penelope is that this is the first time that's ever happened. Penelope ever so slightly chose herself over Eloise for once in her life, and Eloise is too privileged to recognize how precious the loyalty Penelope showed her until that point is. I'm really glad they added this conflict with Eloise and Penelope even though they are my two favorite characters and I love their friendship so much and hate to see them fight. Eloise needs to learn what Penelope has in spades: humility, compassion, and a recognition of what privileges she does and doesn't have, and Penelope needs to learn what Eloise has: brash confidence and a willingness to put herself first when necessary.
Anyway, I thought this was all made very, VERY explicitly clear on the show, but I guess the fact that it's the plus sized character who's the one more in the right while the conventionally attractive character is the one who has a whole lot of learning to do means its's a bit too subtle and nuanced for some people.
You really think Penelope has never done anything wrong just because she is not in a position of privilege?
Agreed!
I wouldn't go as far as saying that Penelope never did anything wrong. She made some mistakes. But she isn't a villain like some people claim. At least she is able to accept her mistakes and learn from it contrary to Eloise). And she always acts with good intentions, she was always trying her best to help the people she cares about with whatever limited means she has. While I always found Eloise self-centered/egoist and extremely judgmental, especially toward other women.
Even during their fight, the differences between their characters and mindsets/maturity were obvious: Penelope told Eloise the harsh truth about Eloise that Eloise refuses to face. Eloise anger was very understandable, but she had almost no real argument, refused to listen to Penelope (even her apologies) and just tried her best to hurt her as much as possible. She even used the exact same words Cressida, Penelope's main bully, used against her. I also suspect that a part of her anger was not the feeling of betrayal from a friend, but also having her pride hurt. She couldn't even deny being jealous when Penelope implied it. *
I'm looking forward to seeing them grow and seeing how they fix their relationship issues:
As you said, they could learn from each other.
Seeing how Eloise is still very immature and look-down on pretty much everyone else, including Penelope, who is as smart (if not smarter) than her and shares her feminist views but still wants to get married and have a family, I am hoping for a similar "aesop" than in Mona Lisa's Smile where Eloise learns to respect other women. Even those who want a family. And that doesn't change their worth or their intelligence.
I'm also looking forward to Penelope growing more confident and finally showing who she truly is/what she thinks more and refusing to take disrespect from others anymore. It's cute when the Bridgertons come to her help but I want her to stand up for herself, and with class, like she learned to do in the book. It looked like she was starting to be more assertive in S2 so 🤞.
I also hope they will keep the "subplot" about Penelope using her money to financially support her family and charities. I hope they will elaborate on it actually. It could even be charities about helping (poor and/or working class) girls have at least a basic education, for instance. That sounds like something Show Penelope would do too.
*This means they are giving Eloise Colin's jealousy potline which is good because that was bad in the book but in this situation, it could turn into something good that would help Eloise grow and become the activist she wants to be. And it also means the conflict between Penelope and Colin won't be Colin being petty so they can continue to develop the"friends to lover" story they've already started instead of the sudden and unbelievable shift in Colin in the books.
the fandom screams for complex female characters until they do something wrong. LET FEMALE CHARACTERS HAVE FLAWS! the reason eloise is my favourite character is because she isn't perfect, she is actually really interesting.
she's also a lesbian but we can talk about that later.
I’ll talk about that with you!
Well she did have an amazing connection so I think she could be bi and I absolutely love Eloise as well! Yes, she could’ve been a better friend to Pen and would’ve figured out Lady Whistledown if she actually LISTENED to Pen and wasn’t so self-absorbed. But Pen and humans in general can be very self-absorbed esp when they’re young.
Sidenote: I loved how she attended progressive feminist rally and I loved her intellectual/budding romantic relationship with Theo 🥰
@@luciskies i agree to an extent but pen also ruined els reputation and harassed her family for YEARS so i totally understand why she reacted the way she did. i think next season she will take the time to listen to pen and pen will also become a better friend.
@@wlweloise7270 oh I agree with you. I was on Elosie's side when she went off on Pen and ended their friendship. I feel for pm all the characters (except for the creepy cousin featherington) and still dislike them.
What I was trying to convey is, that yes Elosie could've been a better friend by actually listening to Pen but she did have every reason to react how she did once she uncovered the truth.... While Pen has also been an awful friend, worse imo. She's an unlikeable villain and it sucks that they made the only plus size character this way.
I am interested to see how they'll fix their friendship too and hopefully they'll be some MAJOR character growth from El and Pen. I really hope they don't skip Benedict's storyline for Polin because I don't really like the ship rn. Maybe that'll change but the writers have a lot of work to do. Esp since a lot of us haven't forgiven Pen for what she has done to the ppl she "loves."
Sidenote: It's weird how at the end of the day not liking Pen is an unpopular opinion. Most ppl love her and I think the fandom can get really toxic with Pen Haters and Pen Lovers. Nuanced convos are the best
I need a resolution for Eloise's terror of childbirth that isn't "she grew up and got over it after seeing some women close to her survive the ordeal of labour and delivery and also she adores children now so she's decided breech births and hemorrhages and puerperal fever no longer apply to her, she's a BRIDGERTON, there's nothing she can't do, including live forever." Like, sure, let her have some growing up and personal development, because God knows I wasn't exactly comfortably handy with infants at 17 and now I'm like support the neck but otherwise you can hold them under your arm like a football and they don't care, it's fine; but that doesn't mean she has to suddenly want them because she wants to play Russian roulette with some botanical dick.
Maybe Phillip is gay too and they can have a lovely lavender marriage and be each other's beards and no one will bat an eye about Lady Crane's clever and pretty lady companion and Sir Phillip's handsome horticulture protege permanent houseguest.
I've also suggested on the Bridgerton subreddit that Marina lives and Eloise enter into an open relationship triad arrangement with little to no sex and rigorous birth control efforts if Phillip must be involved but you can imagine how my suggestion that romance and lots and lots of sex need not go hand-in-hand (and that we spare the WOC from dying to serve the Happy Ending with Obligatory Matrimony for the white woman) was received. Which is to say, not well at all. People want Eloise to be spunky and stand up for non-traditional roles for women until you suggest that that role for a woman not revolve around marrying and popping out babies (and her "maturation" arc seeming to comprise simply accepting that that is her function and what she actually wants rather than reviles,) and then whooooboy, folks get MAD.
I hope for Penelope that Colin does more to deserve her interest - in the show, he seems nice enough, but impulsive and immature, even a little generic.
Agreed! My hope is that she is finally allowed to stop dressing in only yellow, causing her and everyone around her to notice that she is more confident. Since she doesn’t have Eloise to hide with at parties and balls, perhaps more gentlemen pay attention to her and Colin gets jealous, finally realizing what’s been in front of him the whole time. Penelope then has other suitors, and rejects Colin when he pursues her now that it’s convenient for him. From there, Colin does some self-discovery and earns her trust and love
Honestly, I have reached the conclusion that this fandom is extremely toxic and they just can't be reasoned with. Being on Twitter after the release of S2 was starting to put me off the show so I just stopped reading their rants and complains about changes from the books, the scenes being cut, the Edwina promotion and all their other ridiculous complaints. And guess what, I loved S2 and I don't care what everyone else says lol. These people hate everything that isn't their vision of the books and don't realize that most people actually care about the other main characters too. Who would care about the characters if they made them one dimensional like Edwina was in the book, that would be so boring to watch and no one would care enough to watch other couples' season if they don't get some development in the seasons where they aren't main. And how boring would this show be with no conflicts between the characters??????? I will never understand these complaints, genuinely cba with these people.
See, this is why I stay on Tumblr and only go into the Bridgerton tag to reblog pretty gifsets. 😄
I think it all has to do with a bit too much possessiveness and self insert, if you know what I mean…
@@whitneyb3046 The Venn diagram of 'fans' complaining about the changes from the book and the 'fans' flipping out when they hear JB is gay in real life as if THAT is all that stands between them and him absolutely definitely for real boning is a circle...
Here's why people think there was "less" of Kanthony: Firstly, They were hardly alone together in moments of candidness/honesty. We saw Simon and Daphne alone quite a bit, seeing them interact in the scheme, talking openly, sex, etc. With Kanthony, all the time they were alone had so much tension (sexual, emotional) and less frankness, more of them acting with the mask of what was expected of them, and thus we are left somewhat "unfulfilled" by their interactions, however hot those scenes were. I think it's just that our takeaway feelings of frustration (rather than our blissful glee, i.e. the final scene of S2) after their scenes in S2 episodes 1-7) is clouding our ability to see that the numbers, in comparison to S1, are actually the same lolol. Secondly, a lot of S2 was spent explaining WHY it's hard for them to get together (Anthony's flashback story, Kate's shame of "betraying" her sister), rather than just showing Kanthony being together (opposite of simon/daphne). Totally different plot devices than S1, but let's be honest, WHY DO WE NEED THE CONSTANT COMPARISON, THEIR STORY IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM SIMON AND DAPHNE. And thank god, bc S2>>S1.
Yeah, the stories by their nature don't ALLOW as much flagrant one-on-one encounters as Simon and Daphne's fake courtship did--of course they spent chaperoned time together, walking, talking, dancing, spoonlicking. Anthony and Kate have to have circumstances force them together time and again; and then even when they do get moments alone, they are NOT courting and know that they very much a danger to each other, their time alone is almost thoroughly in spite of themselves and their purer intentions. That's why they have that PULL to each other, and also why they seem to get interrupted so much more often when they do get a moment alone. Everything about their situation is doing the opposite of endorsing their moments together. They should not, they cannot, they must not. Daphne and Simon don't even get a HINT of that besides Anthony's grumbling objections until Simon tries to break off the (fake) courtship and then they collide in the garden and get caught.
Also no-one has pointed out that Anthony was given a huge side plot in season 1 and Kanthony, unlike any of the other relationships, is likely to get its own sideplot in every future season.
I agree with you about Penelope. They seriously aren’t going to do her any favors if they skip over Benedict’s story for her and Colin. I think if they dedicate next season to repairing Colin and Penelope’s relationship as a side plot it’ll be much better received in season four. People are saying Polin was more built up this season and I just don’t agree. Colin is too young and Penelope is still too insecure. They need to grow a little bit more as characters
Yep and that “denial of Penelope” scene in the show is pretty timeline accurate in that it happens way before the point of their relationship. She remembers it in her book as ‘the incident’ that happened years ago.
With that said, I’m hoping they will do Benedict’s next as well and then maybe even do a time jump before we see Polin on screen to give them both the space and time to grow into people the audience will want to root for. Hopefully some side plot in the next season will be some atonement and self reflection for Penelope
Absolutely agree! Penelope & Colin both very much feel like teenagers/young adults, who are beginning to form their own identities but aren't there yet. Another season for them to grow & change before they get the spotlight would probably serve them well.
I appreciate a good Bridgerton take on this fine day, bring it on I’m ready to be educated and/or vindicated!
I agree that I hope in season 3 they'll focus on Penelope repairing her friendship with Eloise and her having some redemption. Adding her romance with Colin doesn't give that issue the weight it deserves. Having some separation with Colin and Eloise might help Pen figure out how to define herself outside of them. She'll have to think hard about the choices she's made. She's hit rock bottom so nowhere to go but up, right? Although I do fear it might get a little worse before it gets better. I believe Pen has a lot of good in her so I believe in her. She's interesting, she's flawed and I'm team Penelope ❤️
girl your statistical analysis in here is so cool and impressive!
also don’t get worried about having some scenes that you weren’t sure how to categorize. that always happens when coding (labeling) things in research! you just have to go with your best judgement sometimes.
Agree with almost everything. I will add that a lot of the slow burn elements that people liked from this season is based on the inclusion of the forbidden lovers trope. It made everything more intense and sexier. And the only way to really achieve is to give them an actual obstacle. And that obstacle was Edwina. Having them get married half way through the season would have just eliminated one of the best pieces of this season. And for what? I just think people wanted a sex montage like Season 1. Can’t convince me otherwise. lol
I really hope the writers stay AWAY from social media. When it comes to sites that take the aggregate of the public opinion of the show like Rotten Tomato or IMDB, overwhelmingly fans prefer Season 2. The writers did a good job of making a compelling season of television. If they listen to the LOUD minority on social media, they are going to ruin this show for casual viewers. And Bridgerton was only going to become the #1 most watched English language show on Netflix by attracting casual viewers.
Also, holding the source material as some great literary classic like Austen or Brontë is laughable. The books just gave Shondaland and co. a framework. I prefer they do everything they can to improve the stories and make the most compelling seasons of tv they can send out.
It makes me so angry when people keep arguing which woman is the worst when actually the real villains are:
In Marina's story: sir George. He should have married her before going to war, but he didn't, therefore he was the one responsible for ruining her life.
In Edwina's story: Anthony. Omg, he makes me so mad. He is supposed to be all grown up and head of the family and instead he is a selfish brat thinking only of his own reasons to marry and being all honest about them to everyone else but her. Wth dude, not cool!
In the Featheringtons' story: Portia's idiot of a husband. What was she supposed to do after he gambled all their money and then died leaving her with nothing?
And don't even get me started on Simon: I cannot see why people like him. Yes, he's got his issues but instead of communicating he spends all his time hitting people. Toxic masculinity much? And the duel? Dude, the rules in the sociaty are not fair but they are simple: If you get cought, you will have to get married. You do not shoot people just because you broke the rules. And I absolutely hate Anthony for the duel as well. Communicate you idiots!
How are we supposed to root for these duelling, brooding men, I've got no idea.
YESSSSSSS thank you, couldn't agree more
I feel like my dislike for Penelope is slightly different. I want her to be more vicious and backstabby. As much as I like her and Eloise's friendship, I was genuinely like "Girl, fuck your friend, this is your business." be the villain, i'd love her more.
Yesss im praying for full villain penelope or at least buisness minded girl boss especially for next season. Like yep it sucks u lost ur friend and ur crush is a dick but lets be shady and make that money. Maybe get a redemption arc later but lets commit to being messy and morally grey none of this feeling bad about it ... i want messy Pen.
Omg. I’ve found my people.
Yes, count me in! I would love to see a villain Penelope. She has been too nice for the Bridgertons for the sake of Eloise and Colin. Now that she lost them, she could be so much more without those two to protect. And those two need to realise that Penelope is much more than the always there reliable girl next door they think she is. To be fair Eloise did realise that already but I think they are giving her Colins jealous storyline from the books and that's the real reason she is angry, and I think it's great. Now they can do something better with the Polin storyline. I do hope Penelope and Eloise make up but not too soon. And I am here for Penelope+Colin but let him suffer first
"I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY!!" -- me, continuously for the last 45 minutes while watching this video
Thank you for your thoughts on Pen. I understand why people might not like her and I don't think she's always a good person, but she is incredibly complex and I've never felt like she was beyond redemption or that she doesn't deserve love. Especially when so many of her actions are motivated by the lack of love she receives in her own home.
THIS
I think people don't like her because she reminds them too much of themselves.
We are all as flawed as penelope, and we don't like that. (We as in people. I am not a Pen hater)
I actually loved this season but in regards to the screentime issue, I do think Kate’s was mishandled and a lot of Kathony as well (I am one of those who wanted more bodice ripping unfortunately) and I did have issue with how they portrayed the Edwina/Kate relationship before the wedding as well as after it. But the Twitter people are on a whole other level of conspiracy theory tbh like wtf? Again, your Bridgerton opinions are superior as always
regarding the last part, I love how Penelope has made morally ambiguous decisions because she's been backed into a corner whether the intent behind those decisions was benign or malicious. It's on-brand with the racy position Lady Whistledown has stood behind, and, unlike in the books, it explores the stretches of her influence and the consequences that Penelope is left to grapple with. She's a compelling character who juggles the stakes of her double life. The decisions she's made thus far make her a very compelling character.
Honestly, I find some issue in the underlying idea that the Bridgerton fandom tends to have about female characters. They don't allow to be anything but kind, compliant, and agreeable. Let them be angry at the hand they've been dealt with. Let them be ambitious. Let them use their teeth and claws. Let them rage.
Everywhere I go I see people who didn't like S2 but I love it so much and watched it again and again. the slow burn, the passion, the stolen glances, the staring, the compliments disguised as insults, the heaviest breathing, the realistic confession, the trauma, the hot consent, & the angry s3x
People not understanding that season 2 would inevitably have "less" contact between the two leads because they're in a live triangle. But also, I don't think they should have left it all the way to halfway through the ceremony. Just personally I think that was taking it too far for poor Edwina. Also they both deserved at least another argument about the parentification of Kate so there's that.
Also Also, Colin will always be an idiot but I did like him having sense kicked into him by marina and then realising that he actually liked penelope. That was good. Personally, I think penelope made some bad choices in bad situations and probably should have told eloise she was whistledown when she was threatened by the Queen
I think some cultural context would have been better to really drive home the moment of Edwina’s realization.
In India, when a woman is given bangles by a man, that is considered his proposal. When edwina sees him hand those bangles to Kate, the rightful owner of said bangles, she sees plainly for the first time based on her cultural upbringing.
I wish they would have made it a bit more clear in the show the significance because it was hard hitting once you know.
@@whitneyb3046 Yeah the wedding episode was a heavy homage to Indian cinema and culture in terms of the structure of its drama and I think that might have been lost on viewers unfamiliar with the tropes and signifiers, especially around marriage traditions.
@@whitneyb3046 oh my god thank you for stating that! I did not know and fully believed that she realized that they loved each other through them looking at each other 😭
Sometimes... deviations from the source material... are good.
i loved s2, the romance was better, the sharma family was lovable, even eloise’s and theo’s subplot was preferable to me than those of the first. but i also did feel, prior to viewing any online opinions, that the subplots were less involved with the main romance, which i didn’t like. though i also disliked the featheringtons and penelope this season.
Coming through with looks and facts! You do the lords work Miss Julia
Honestly, I think one of the problems is that bodice rippers are a guilty pleasure for a lot of people but these people haven't considered that the tropes of that subset of romance would be absolutely horrifying translated to screen. I loved reading The Viscount Who Loved Me, with the recognition that it's a fictional fantasy, but as soon as I considered seeing Anthony on screen behave like book Anthony I was relieved that they didn't try to keep things exactly the same. A good example of this is Outlander! I love both the books and the show but they definitely toned down some of the domineering 18th century elements of book Jamie and made him a bit more "modern" on screen, which was for the better. (Although that is a less extreme example).
I don’t have social media other than RUclips. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I had no idea about these complaints and I thoroughly enjoyed this show.
I have insta, facebook, and reddit but not twitter (TG) and I haven't seen anything other than on this platform
@@audreym3908 yeah twitter is a dumpster fire of negativity and is definitely the worst of social media imo
Same. Twitter sounds absolutely terrifying so I just hide on Tumblr so I can look at cute fanart
Reddit is 90% trashfire and yet I'm still hanging in there but in NO way can I handle Bridgerton Twitter. Or Netflix Twitter, in general. It's a sea of spammy renewal demands of unrelated shows and vitriol.
I think the idea of forced marriage doesn’t really work with what’s going on in the modern world. The fact that it has been deemed as romantic in the first place is a bit sh*tty by today’s standards. I’m happy with the slow burn and marriage on their own terms.
Am a feminist but I find it so bizarre that people critique Bridgerton as 'antifeminist' like this is regency era courtship? Ofc its going to have patriarchal elements to it
Dylan Kennedy, for some people critiquing and/or complaining about something is part of the fun.
These are tools for addressing their own personal angst about the subject. Also, in today's culture
you can actually, get paid for doing it.
I don’t hate Penelope, I just don’t necessarily see her as a “good” character right now.
In season 1, she condemns Marina and her unborn child to a cruel fate by exposing her through Lady Whistledown all because she loved Colin, a boy who doesn’t even like her back. (and no, I don’t believe she did it for some moral reason cause she was fine with Marina’s plan until it worked on Colin and he actually reciprocated) She could’ve simply told Colin the truth/written him an anonymous letter and nothing can convince me that she didn’t do that because Colin would’ve gone ahead with it anyways.
In season 2, she ruins her childhood best friend Eloise by exposing her through Lady Whistledown. There’s even a scene where she says to Madam Delacroix that she would never ruin a friend…but she did it to Marina so…??? She claims to have done it to protect Eloise, but if she cared that much about her, she could’ve told the Queen who she really was. The Queen didn’t want to punish Lady Whistledown, she wanted an alliance. What that tells me is that Penelope is willing to throw her friend (and the Bridgertons let’s be honest) under the bus to save her own skin.
I’m happy with female characters operating in gray areas - in fact, more writers should do this. It makes Penelope a way more interesting and complex character than Eloise for example. But she’s very far from a saint right now and she has quite a bit to atone for.
i'm sorry, but she was absolutely not fine with marina's plan until colin reciprocated, there were multiple instances of her being visibly uncomfortable and annoyed at what marina was doing as soon as she knew she was pregnant and more than once she tried to dissuade colin from keeping his pursuit of marina, and at one point it was pretty obvious that it wasn't only because she loved him but also because she knew he sould suffer a lot when he eventualy found out the truth, that's what the whole "what about him? what about colin" was about.
and with eloise, context is very important, she was warned multiple times against meeting with theo and that the wrong person was going to catch her in the act, she decided not to listen, so penelope was backed into a corner and had to make a tough decision, at that point the queen would never believe someone other than eloise was whistledown, even if she showed receipts.
i do not believe pen is a saint at all and have not seen anyone call her so, and i do agree with you that she has a lot to atone for and there's a lot of development that i hope happens, she's a 17 year old complicated, complex young woman who makes mistakes and needs to mature a lot and i absolutely love her for it.
Edit: she most definitely didn't condemn marina to a cruel fate seeing as she's doing pretty good right now married to a sir and having a comfortable life.
I agree with the OP. I can understand where Pen is coming from/her feeling but still dislike her. I don’t understand why there has to be so much hate between ppl who love Pen and ppl who don’t. We all have opinions. It’s honestly exhausting. Plus, the ppl who dislike Pen are the minority. I would know based on expressing my dislike of Pen on Reddit and why I like Eloise more.
I think a HUGE part of the problem is that polin doesn’t happen until a full 10 years down the line from the first book. She has some major major major growth to do and bonds to mend and self reflection to do before she can be seen as a “good” character that most people will root for.
Which is wonderful!! I’m so desperately hoping they do Benedict’s story next to give Pen some room to grow into the person she’s meant to be, as well as Colin.
@@carol-dk6vc she absolutely did ruin Marina. It was pure chance that Phillip happened to be an upstanding guy. She would’ve been cast out from society otherwise. Her and her child would’ve been condemned so Pen was absolutely the villain in that story. And that’s not excusing Marina’s actions, but at least hers are more understandable when you take in societal context. She was caught between a rock and a hard place, whereas Pen had options. Pen is still a very privileged girl who weaponised LW to break up Marina and Colin.
As for Eloise - Pen’s main reason for not wanting her with Theo is because she didn’t want her own secret getting exposed which is selfish. Why didn’t she just tell Eloise? And who’s to say the Queen wouldn’t have believed her? Did she even try? No.
These are the two main bad things that she’s done that make her “not a saint”. Writing a gossip column or not sharing her money with her family are no big deals. Almost ruining two of her only 3 friends are the worst things she’s done. And I agree with you that she’s complex and complicated, and to the writers’ credit, she’s probably the most fleshed out female character on the show. But she’s done two pretty big unlikeable things so it’s not really a shock that non-book readers wouldn’t take to her so soon.
@@hali_55 Phillip isn't even a "upstanding guy" according to the book, he's actually kind of an assh*ole... But they may change that for the show.
colin IS boring, penelope deserves better :/
and i enjoyed s2, the leads were much more interesting imo
It’s ironic to me if Eloise, Penelope or Edwina received backlash from fans when it was the Bridgerton brothers’ subplots which I found tedious.
I don’t go on Twitter. I didn’t know there were Penelope haters. My bubble is burst and my day is ruined.
The vast majority of the fandom and the general audience love her, but there are some loud haters who have the worst takes..
I wasn't planning on watching season 2 because I was pretty lukewarm/bored by season 1, but to be honest, I actually LIKED season 2. I wasn't bored. I thought most of the storylines were better (except Eloise, she's just annoying, and the whole Whistledown thing, cause I don't care), the leads had waaaay more chemistry, and I actually liked that it was an actual slow burn romance and not as much gratuitous sex. I actually gave a shit when they finally got to bodice-ripping lol
so in actuality, kanthony had about the same screentime as simon & daphne, but people just hated the subplots/longed for their presence more on screen? I’ll take that as a win in my book lol
if theres something bridgerton book stans always going to do is defend these books mindlessly despite the fact that there"s a lot of problematic stuff on it they they choose to not acknowledge. im kinda glad the show does make a lot of things better (like writing the side-characters as actual people who get hurt and make mistakes instead of just being nice and one dimensional, fixing stuff like the bee stung scene and kathony being forced to marry each other just like simon and daphne). can't wait too see all the borderline sexist bs theyre gonna come up with to defend eloise's book.
Obviously, late to the party here but wanted to watch this to prepare a bit for the next season.... so
One thing that's interesting to me is that many people see this whole story so differently than I do, like to me...... Pen is the main character of this show. She's the one with a multi-season arc. She's (to me) the most sympathetic and the one with the most room for growth, along with probably Eloise. She is absolutely the most interesting character. Daphne's story is more or less over once she marries, Anthony I suspect will be much the same. I really hope that Pen's arc doesn't just end at the end of S3.
"People often forgo meaningful comparison of entertainment value, theme, or whatever else in favor of playing spot-the-difference and patting themselves on the back for finding them"--heck yes, and I'm completely in support of a video expanding on it
side note, I love that floral fluffy ruffle-adjacent shirt
Making a spreadsheet to prove you're right is the level of commitment to the truth that I cannot help but admire
The Featherington sideplot this season was less satisfying and probably felt longer than it's actual screen time. First season's plot involved Marina, Pen, AND Lady Featherington, 3 interesting characters, it roped in Colin Bridgerton, and ended in a major scandal, quickly hushed over, and Marina 's problem solved. In fact, while I was irritated with Lady F. the first time I watched it, repeat viewings actually improved my opinion of her a bit. She does nothing but criticize her daughters - but she was the only person trying to make sure Marina Thompson didn't end up giving birth in the street. And Marina was not helping- the woman had no plan for herself or her kid and did not care that by staying in the house she was going to hurt the Featherington's as well when the truth came out. Lady F had to handle that on her own.
But Season 2- it's mostly Lady F and the New Lord F- and he just isn't interesting. And trapping Prudennce- their situation did not seem desperate enough for that. Pen is off on her own plot so this season's Featherington shenaningans had to be carried soley by Lady F. And by the end, even though once again Colin Bridgerton is roped in, they basically all end up back where they started. I fear she's going to end up like the Bridgerton Wile E. Coyote, with every season some new stupid get rich scheme. Which is a shame because I love the actress.
my main criticism of edwina is that she should have been a lesbian. the building blocks were there in the book, the wasted potential :(
S2 was SO GOOD. S1 was very boring for me personally and the miscommunication was super annoying. I loved the slow burn in S2 as well. I did think the 2nd older bro was gonna be gay/bi lol. Like how all them kids all straight? 🫠 also the only plus size girl is an insecure gossip girl 🫤
I saw an interview where the actor who plays Benedict said they might explore his sexuality in later seasons, which I am really hoping for. Definitely felt like queer baiting in season one and then disappeared this season for some reason.
idc how penelope acts i haven't even watched the show (tho this video is changing my mind I think i will start it hehe) but nichola is my girl I will ride for her and all she does that's my wee lesbian u guys cannot say anything to her without the threat of me finding you and biting you......
Please tell me you're making a video critique of the Netflix Persuasion adaption.
I really disliked the love triangle. I do love them in general, but hate when brothers or sisters are involved. I just feel like we don't see good relationship between sisters often, even on this show Kate and Edwina were the only one. What I would've done different is I would go with a story where Edwina instead of Kate has a deal with her grandparents without anyone knowing. So when she would have that realization at the wedding she would back off without having any hard feelings for Kate.
it IS a shame we haven't gotten more one-on-one promo between jonathan and simone - i would love to see a photoshoot with just the two of them - but that is not the other cast members' fault.
I was ready to hate watch this season! Season 1 wasn't that impressive to me and book 2 read like a fanfiction. I cringed so hard during book's bee scene, no real stakes were introduced in the book, the enemy-to-lovers characterisation was thrown out the window halfway through the story, Kate our supposed strong lead was depicted as a whimpering mess needing rescuing repeatedly and the dialogues often were silly, almost cartoonish. And then came the TV show and god, I don't know how but they grounded the whole thing! Anthony's arc was so well done, the characters made decisions that felt true to them. Loved their interpretation of bee scene and the library scene. The season has flaws but it captures the essence a romance so fully that I can't fault it too much. Hope writers keep their heads in the game for future seasons and not listen to the discourse too much.
your video was posted to the bridgerton reddit, and I'm so glad because now I know you exist and wanted to tell you that you're amazing and I love this video and your other bridgerton video, and Penelope stans unite, and I am LOOKING FORWARD to watching the Cinderella ranking video.
Anyway, specifically this video, I rewatched a lot of season 1 after first watching and obsessing over season 2, and you vocalize something I'm pretty sure I felt after seeing all the "GRRR SUBPLOTS STEALING KANTHONY'S TIME SEASON 1 DIDN'T DO THIS TO SAPHNE BUT IT SUCKS NOW THE SHOWRUNNERS MUST HATE KATHONY GRRRRRRRRRR" criticism, but I wasn't really able to vocalize it to myself, because I *know* that season 1 has an entirely comparable amount devoted to subplots and featheringtons. And the thing you explain so well that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere is how the Marina subplot in season 1 was thematically tied to and had a dramatic throughline with the main plot, so even if the subplots were ostensibly their own thing (even though Daphne and Simon became involved when they went back to London, especially Daphne) it didn't really *feel* like this disconnected, separate plot going on, taking time away, because of this thematic intertwining. In contrast to season 2, where the subplots were not connected and the show felt more like an ensemble drama with characters going through their own unrelated things.
Which, I didn't mind at all, because in a show that's going to have a new main romance featuring a different Bridgerton sibling as the star of each new season, you have to do the work to set up their characters and conflicts so people will be invested in their romance from word go. I feel like a lot of the time in the first half of season 1 with Simon and Daphne was exposition heavy on them, because they didn't have a prior season to set up their characters, but that isn't the case with the other siblings or Penelope, who have the advantage of past subplots of set up.
Like, for an uncontroversial example, look at Benedict. He's had his own subplot in both seasons so far (which apparently no one cares about in terms of it stealing time FOR SOME REASON, GEE, I DON'T KNOW), and what is it all about? Season 1 he started to seriously explore his interest in art after befriending a professional artist, but it mostly turned into being exposed to various flavors of socially forbidden relationships, and the tricks people develop to keep their love lives on the DL while maintaining a veneer of acceptability in society. Benedict is ultimately turned off by the falseness of that life in season 1- he tells his brother and sister about seeing Madame Delacroix rather than keeping it hidden, and he distances himself from the artist friend, but maintains the interest in art. Season 2 is focused entirely on the art- Delacroix breaks off their casual, no strings relationship in the first episode to prioritize her art career, which kind of shames him about his own lack of serious focus, and he dedicates himself to becoming a real artist and going to the academy, but mostly just continues his foray into the casual hedonism he's come to associate with artists, and ultimately ends up being totally disenchanted with the entire idea of this life for himself in a bout of imposter syndrome when he finds out his place was paid for by Anthony.
This all sets the table magnificently for his romance with Sophie- the conflict they'll face as a couple and have to overcome, how the arc of it encompasses an emotional journey that Benedict has to go on to achieve his HEA of marrying her and becoming a successful professional artist, and it sets it all up in the first two seasons in a subplot that apparently no one even cares enough about to complain that it's taking up time, but by the time the story is told, it will have felt totally earned.
This is GOOD. And it shows that the writers are actually thinking ahead and strategizing. Social media will have you thinking the writers are monkeys in a room on typewriters. I have told everyone that Benedict is at the perfect place to start his season. But other people think it’s Polin. And I agree with Julia. Pen has to fix her relationship with Eloise before she gets into a romantic relationship with Colin. And people are insisting on rushing that. But I think it’s because people are prioritizing Pen’s romantic relationship with Colin over her friendship with Eloise and that doesn’t sit right with me. Plus, friend to lover tropes usually take a VERY long time to build on TV i.e. YEARS. Think about Fringe, Bones, X-Files, Cheers, The Office, New Amsterdam…I could go on and on and on because it is a popular trope. and it does not feel earned yet. But I digress.
I have faith in the writers. What they choose to do will be for the best.
I liked season 2 more because of main couple - Kate & Anthony. Their chemistry was mind blowing. Jonathan & Simone are fab actors. I really didn't care about subplots. I don't care what Marina was up to or what were Featherington were up to. Also, I am up for drama but I hated how far they took Edwina & Anthony thing. When Anthony realized he has feelings for Kate, he could have start hunting for some other girl & in 6th episode, they can break it or something or at least Edwina should not have felt so strongly for Anthony. But not, to create drama, they had to pit sisters against each other. I personally hated how far they took this but yes, I liked about consent with respect to intimacy & Anthony respected Kate's wishes but I wanted them to give some flashback to Kate too. I hated season 1. I never felt Simon and Daphne's chemistry plus that marital assault is not my cup of tea.
no bc i will always be a penelope defender idgaf. pen saved eloises and the bridgertons reputation more than people know, bc the queen could and would have completely destroyed eloise/the bridgerton name had pen not stepped in. yes its sad that she had to use a big secret but like they said in the show it had to be something scandalous enough to show the queen that whistledown ISNT eloise. what she wrote is something eloise can come back from, having the actual queen set against you and your family is not.
I liked all the subplots and other characters. I liked the tension of waiting for the next scenes of the lovebirds. They were literally giving us the same terrible tension and sense of waiting and wanting the two of them were going through. The subplots last season really felt like they were more self contained and the ones this season feel more like they know they're going to have a multiseason arc so they can spend a season setting up the subplots for seasons to come within the subplots of this season, most of the major subplot characters will eventually get their own season and they were starting to plant the seeds for those. Just my take, if you like something different that's great if we all liked the same thing vanilla would be the only ice cream flavor.
honestly my favorite part of season 2 was portia being portia. idc what anyone else thinks, her subplot was necessary and objectively a great decision.
as a Penelope superfan i am simply Tired of Colin and genuinely wish Penelope ended up with anyone else and I mean that with my whole chest. Unfortunately this series is called Bridgerton and not Penelope Gets To Trade Up so if she ended up with someone else she won't get to be a lead and that frustrates me
Saphne and Kanthony may have almost equal amount of screentime but the issue arises that Saphne story was simple and very effectively got summarized in their screentime. Kanthony + Edwina plot needed more screentime because it just had so much going on. So by the time ep6 came, there was too much for them to sort out in way too less episodes. Their story felt rushed at the end. And that is why we think they could have gotten more time at least in the later episodes instead of random cousin marrying cousin or ruby scam storylines.
I love how everyone is so mad at what Penelope did and I'm just sitting here like 'Yup, that's chaotic bisexual energy, she's in love with Colin but also Eloise and extremely jealous of Eloise's crush. And she doesn't even realize it!'
Honestly, I loved it. It's the sort of crazy, messy, did-not-think-this-through thing I might've done in her position.
The Colin/Penelope haters had such a focus on them being "losers" that it makes them seem very....insecure
one caveat - i wouldn't say show!kate doesn't have trauma - her trauma is that she was parentified, and it shows in the way she acts and what we do learn of the sharmas, backed up by how simone talks about her.
but given not everyone picked up on that, the show could've made these things clearer.
also i would have preferred a mary subplot to a featherington subplot
Edwina's "coming into her own character development" storyline did nothing for me because Kate told her from the beginning Anthony didn't want a love match. She forgot all about wanting a husband who adored her and matched her scholarly interests because the idea of being a viscountess and a part of the Bridgerton family was appealing but Kate is wrong for wanting better for edwina, suppressing her true feelings so edwina can have Anthony and protecting her from the sheffields stipulations so edwina wouldn't be pressured to marry? We knew from the beginning kanthony would end up together so dragging edwina and Anthony to the point of a wedding was useless. Almost as useless as the mamas were this season. I don't mind subplots and side characters having conflict and character development (I enjoy the show more than the books cause of this) if they make sense but the writing was just poor in my opinion. I agree with the show needing to delve into Kate's backstory more. They could've done better with both Sharma sisters.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like Theo??? I mean, I did at first, but the two times he realized he couldn’t date Eloise he was very condescending and insulting to her. Especially in the last episode when Eloise didn’t kiss him, he turned Nice Guy real fast.
i LOVE the penelope/eloise conflict. i want the drama i want the messiness i want it all. i like how penelope isn't a goody-two-shoes. and that eloise is genuinely all talk, no action. i can see some very interesting directions they could take their storylines if they don't chicken out.
It was real! People say awful things to each other and ruin friendships and I felt a real loss when it happened on this show, that mirrored things I didn’t know I needed a story to help me process. Epic!
i don't hate edwina but how is having her be ignorant of everyone's feelings around her a development to her character? her speech in ep6 about making her own choices and taking the power from kate was so stupid since the wedding was only happening because she wanted it.
Yeah her arc in the last few episodes felt very disjointed and unfocused. She seemed to be too upset by several things at once and it muddied and watered down the core problems she needed to face, and as a result it's not really clear what she actually addressed and whether she actually resolved what should be a priority. Like, by the end she's back on good terms with Kate and I'm not entirely sure how or why? Except I guess she felt some kind of regrets after the horse crash? But they don't ever really articulate that clearly. Did she want Anthony to love her, or did she want to know the truth sooner? Did she want to have been brought up differently? Is she having an identity crisis as the Diamond? How does she feel about her place in the Sharma family? How does she feel about the situation with the Sheffields? I'm not sure we get a solid answer on any of these, she's just Big Mad until she's not.
My only real "criticism " of season 2 is the love triangle. That's really a personal preference though. I think love triangles are often lazy writing tools used to create overdramatic plot lines.
Edwina was my favorite character this season-Iwas always so genuinely happy to see her on screen. I didn't know people didn't like her :(
In the book she was smarter and less innocent miss. She was aware of all the family’s money issues and was actually participating in the plan to fix them. She was aware of the attraction between Kate and Anthony and played a little bit of Cupid role; and had fun teasing Kate with Kate oblivious because of her denial. She had a truer idea of what could make her happy, which she seized when she no longer felt the pressure of being the family’s future. I liked TV Edwina, but I really missed book Edwina.
My biggest criticism of the adaptation in season 2 is that (to me) Edwina feels more wide-eyed and naive than in the book… mostly to her detriment
I would have loved for her to realise the tension and attraction before she made it to the altar, and that conflict to happen earlier
I enjoyed s2 way more than s1 tbh. I love Kate and I hope she stays and has a role in the next seasons (I wouldn’t even mind a glimpse of edwina and the prince)
I honestly think that people who hates or complains on season 2 and its subplot and upcoming season 3, they watch the series with the plot and story going over their, they're so focused on compairing it to books and looking for sex scenes. The series actually gave more depth to the overall story and characters. I agree I really hope showrunners don't listen to them
I’m curious to know what are your thoughts about them adding Theo Sharp, in sort of a romance with Eloise.
Your last video about Bridgerton, you mentioned you imagined Eloise with someone who backs her up on what she says, instead of Sir Phillip. I found that really interesting, because I never really thought about this idea, but it does seem like it would be an interesting dynamic, and I do think Theo could be in that part. He seems more like someone who would back up Eloise, compared to Sir Phillip on the books, specially because they are more similar and seem to share similar views (mostly on equal rights for women), at least that’s what I got from their scenes together.
I don’t know if they’ll give up on the book romance to be able to explore that, but I do think it’s a possibility, since they introduced Marina so well on the series. I don’t know if the series producers would be willing to kill off a character like Marina, that got a decent amount of attention on season 1, specially on the circumstances of her death on the book, and all of that so Eloise can get with Sir Phillip, while she has a pretty decent match already presented to us. It just seems too much scandalous, and the producers seem to try keep controversial scenes from the books out of the series.
On another hand, I think the only reason we got to see her again on season 2 was to show that she’s unhappy, as clearly stated.
I do think the producers of the show are able to work with the romance between Eloise and Phillip, but I don’t think it wouldn’t be anything like the books, just like Anthony and Kate. I’m really curious to know what path they’ll decide to take with her.