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Rather than how long they last you should look at how much thermal energy you get. As an example, a resitive heater will put out 3.4 BTU per watt or about 4800 BTU at 1430 watts. Your outdoor heat pump was only using about 500 watts, but probably has a COP of around 3 or 4 at that temperature meaning it would be putting out somewhere near 3 or 4 times the resistive heater, so somewhere near 9 to 13 BTU per watt or 5000 to 6000 BTU. Since the space heater would only last about 1.5 hours that's more like 7200 BTU total. The heat pump, however, is putting out 5K per hour for 9 hours, or 45000 BTU.
Nice comparison. One option not mentioned is a kerosene heater. I use them frequently, but they are also great for emergencies. They can be run indoors, produce no CO (although I still maintain at least 2 CO detectors) and can be placed where you need the heat. Ultra refined fuel like KleenHeat lasts at least 2 years in storage. They run for 10 - 12 hours, no smoke or odor. Plus certain models that are not fully enclosed - ones with glass globes - give off quite a bit of light and function as a good light source. Small ones will output 10K BTU, large ones over 20K BTU. I also like propane powered devices for emergencies, because propane has an infinite shelf life, assuming no tank leaks.
@@wigsandfluff5729 I've never calculated how much propane they use per hour, that would be interesting to know. I will run them on high to get the room warm, then cut the flame to minimum. But in an emergency situation I won't worry about the cost.
@@mikemotorbike4283 keep alive, and pipes from freezing." Shut off the water main, then drain the plumbing system from the lowest faucet in the home. It's inconvenient but so are burst pipes.
I have a minisplit that the ac works great, but the heat is just OK, and it smells after a while, you should test a diesel heater and a natural gas heater if it's available in your area
Hummm. That probably means your mini split needs to cleaned because mine smells just fine and heat or air conditioning mode. I would like to try a diesel heater at some point! I don’t have one of those to test unfortunately. I do have natural gas and I did test my natural gas furnace in the video so hopefully you saw that! Thanks for watching!
A tip for you. I know the wave 2 is SUPPOSED to use both hoses. However I was having a using doing that when the temps dropped below 30* so I just ran the vent hose outside and that fixed it. After that I was able to get temps from the vents back up into the 110’s. Basically reheating the already warm air from the room rather then trying to warm up air from outside
I guess that would work. The issue with that I suppose is that now you’ve put your room under negative pressure so now cold air from outside will seep in to make up the difference. But where it’s able to be tempered before going into the heat pump, I guess that’s how you’re raising the output temperature…but are you losing more heat energy as a result of the negative pressure? Not sure. Have to run some tests on that concept to see what’s best. Thanks for watching!
@@theresatrickforthat your test on the Wave 2 wasn't with a professional install like your mini split and furnace had. You said you test with what came in the box but the mini split and furnace didn't come with everything needed. So insulating the intake and exhaust hose on the Wave 2 would start to approach a professional install. I think everyone knows a mini split is the most efficient, given a finite amount of energy to consume. The furnace only works because you have an infinite supply of gas to it. But it's also heating the whole house. I've contemplated the Wave 2 and the only scenario where it really works is a small well insulated space with the hoses well insulated. I was not aware of the 41 degree limitation they state. That kills the deal for me.
I have mine set up like I mentioned and the negative pressure it creates is negligible compared to the heat it puts out. I have a 15x15 bedroom with 3 windows in it one of which I’m just using 1/2 thick insulated foam board to vent out the exhaust hose from the wave 2 and it’s capable of brining the room up to 70degrees no problem in fact in runs for about 7 minutes or so then off for about 15 minutes and repeats this cycle. So the room is bigger then the heater is designed for (10x10) and has three windows one with the worst insulation ever and it still is able to bring the room up to temperature without struggling. Also this is cheaper then a space heater because a space heater uses 1500 watts almost constantly where as the wave uses 500 watts intermittent. I get about 15 hours of runtime with the wave 2 on a Delta 2 Max and Extra battery (4kWh) sorry for the long message but point being the negative pressure in an apartment is negligible maybe it wouldn’t be so negligible in a tent or camper but it is in an apartment
You're only supposed to use the hoses on cooling mode, and it works better if it's not in the same room as you. For heating I use zero hoses, works better that way, it gets hurt the colder that room is like all heat pumps.
@@downtube8fs you have to use at least 1 hose no matter what mode you in because it exhausts the opposite out the back. For example if it's in cooling mode you need a hose to exhaust the hot air out the window nif you have it in heating mode you need a hose to exhaust the cold air out the window. What ever mode it's in the opposite temperature air comes out the back. If you have no hoses hooked up at all then you'll expell hot and cold air into the same room
Ok the only thing I’d like to point out is yes you proved it could run the furnace but you didn’t give a run time like you did with all the other appliances. I know you said it could do it for at least 4 hours but as you stated the furnace isn’t going to run for 4 hours straight. So is it safe to say it’ll run it for 8? We didn’t get enough information from that test.
The furnace is a wild card. But if it’s not crazy cold outside and you have a decently insulated house and you’re using the furnace to just maintain your set temperature and not trying to heat up the house from it being cold, 8-12 hours would be a good estimate I would say!
@@theresatrickforthat Wouldn't it also be true for the split system heat pump that you were using? I would imagine that it did not run continuously or was it trying to heat the whole home? Even then, it would be a valuable comparison between the heat pump & the gas furnace. I would expect the gas furnace to win hands down.
@@koyamamoto5933 You can see in the timelapse of the mini-split running it is cycling on and off. So that's why it ran for like 10 hours. But, yes...I would agree with you that if you're wanting the maximum amount of heat for your entire house and the natural gas supply is intact...then the gas furnace is hands down the best thing to run!
A friend just texted she used a hurricane lamp and candle, kept her room at 65 last power outage in port Angeles wa winter weather. She also sent along a link for the clay pot and tea candle setup. Wonder what the monoxide dangers are?
Yeah, not sure. She could certainly get one of the CO detectors I used which measures in 1% increments (link in video description and pinned comment) and see what the results are! It would be interesting to hear! Thanks for watching!
That heat pump test was one of the single most important tests i've ever seen done for these for so many reasons. Not only is this good to know for an outage, you just determined how much battery capacity and solar is needed to run one of these during moderate weather. If 2kwh lasts 10 hours then a 5kwh battery being able to get 1 day out of that is fantastic information, it's actually reasonably achievable to run it for most of the year on just a sub 5k usd solar+battery system with minimal fallback to grid power.
So happy to hear this was helpful to you! It is pretty amazing how efficient those small min-split heat pumps are. Of course it can loose efficiency as it gets colder. But I rarely get extreme cold. Thanks for watching!
Very helpful video. Thanks for putting this together. I had a Mr Buddy heater for emergency heat but returned it due to CO risk. Im still on the lookout for a heat source, in the meantime I bought electric blankets that I'll run off of EcoFlow inverters. Im in southern NC so it doesnt get crazy cold here too often.
The grounding rod is installed by the home builders, the year the house was built. When the generator switch is installed, the ground is daisy chained onto the furnace electrical junction box.
Great video thank you! There is one other option for you to consider. For anyone who has a gas fireplace (most homes seem to have one) you should be able to run the fireplace, without the fan, in a power outage situation. The two most common fireplace types - electronic ignition fireplaces can work with a common AA battery if the power goes out and a a millivolt system fireplace does not require any external power, and operates solely off of the pilot light being lit. You simply need to add a battery fan (like the RYOBI USB Lithium Clamp Fan Kit with 2.0 Ah USB Lithium Battery) in front of the fireplace top grill opening to blow the warm air into the room - similar to what the fireplace internal fan would do. Or you could power a small fan off of the Delta power station. The run time on this solution - provided the natural gas continues to flow - would be days or even weeks.
If I had a natural gas furnace like yours that would be my first choice. Instead I have a central ducted heat pump that I can run via generator power. My 8kw propane inverter generator plugs into an inlet on the side of the house and I use an interlock to make sure power can only come in via either the grid or the generator, not both at once. With a soft start on the heat pump and the heat strips disabled during the defrost cycle, the generator runs everything fine. I have an electric space heater I can power with a smaller generator if necessary, and multiple buddy heaters. I wonder if the CO level would be so high if taking measurements farther from the buddy heater. While the buddy heater would be my 3rd or 4th choice, if I were to use it my goal would be to have my broan energy recovery ventilator still running via battery power to provide fresh air since it only takes 24 watts per hour and hopefully that would keep CO levels low. Another option I may try at some point would be a direct vent wall furnace that doesn't require electricity and can run via a 100lb propane tank since I don't have NG available.
Sounds like you have a pretty well-rounded plan! Thanks for sharing! Just make sure you have a lot of fuel stored for that generator! Thanks for watching!
The whole house furnace will keep you warm as long as the NG/propane. Nothing is comparable to its scale, so if you have the ability to keep power to the unit, through any means, it will always keep you warm.
Run the small ceramic heater on low not only does the fan keep running, but it drops the wattage down by half also put a fan behind it which will push more heat through the little heater since that little fan in the heater is much too small to move a large volume of air.. I also didn’t run it at 70. I just kept the temp at 60 so it’s cycled on and off only when it needed to which not only extended the time by three times but circulated to heat more efficiently.
I got a propane gas insert in my fire place. You can run it for 3 days off of 4 AA batteries. I got a small battery bank that will power it for like a month. The mini split looks to be a great source of heat and A/C thought based just off of a small back up battery generator.
Minisplit is the best, and running it on the battery bank is very efficient, as you can simultaneously charge and discharge your battery with no issues.
Couple things: TL;DR: -Keep mini split battery inside plugged into wall, and run extension cord outside through window -Remove portable heat-pump cold air intake pipe when below 41°F outside, and use inside air like a single hose model. -Double hose Portable heat pumps usually only have the intake pipe going to the window until the outside temp goes down to 41°F. Then you detach it and let the inside air enter the unit to have its heat extracted. The exhaust pipe stays in the window at all times in any case. Some warmed air is lost by evacuating inside air, yes, but as it is already prewarmed, more heat is extracted, compensating for it. Yes some cold air will be drawn in through the house cracks, but the efficiency is actually not that bad compared to a two pipe setup. Only heat pumps specifically designed for below 40°F can use the cold outside air intake pipe. Below freezing and cold efficient models are more expensive, so you'd know if you had one. -The mini split battery sitting outside over 10 hours might go below freezing. Charging the battery below freezing might destroy the battery if it doesn't have a cold temp charge acceptance cutoff. When it's a few more degrees below freezing, the battery will be unable to even provide power. Regardless, it's overall less efficient at cold temps and may be destroyed if left outside. Best to keep it inside plugged into the wall, like a UPS - and run the power cord out a window. Also, if the grid power comes on for a while, if the battery remains plugged into the wall, there is the possibly to catch the chance to automatically recharge it a bit during the uptime. -Also. "Heat Buddy"- type catalytic propane heaters are widely used by RVers. They're tried and proven. Although, like some others, I get a splitting headache when using one. I still have one as a backup to stay warm and heat the pipes, with a window cracked open.
Thank you! I was surprised too with that mini split! I’m sure if it was a colder day and the room it conditions is less insulated it would be a much lower run time. But the world is full of variables, so I’m just showing the real world results from my house and my experience. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing that safety tip at the beginning. And the name of a good tool to test CO2. I have a mr. Buddy heater that fits on top of the 20 lb cyclinder. Never had no issues and used it to warm up the house on a daily basis.
@@vashon100 CO is carbon monoxide. Those are the alarms close to the ceiling. It is lighter than o2 ( oxygen). CO2 is carbon dioxide. Those alarms should be a foot off the ground. It is more dense than oxygen. Do you know of any good volatile detector that test for multiple compounds? Such as Radeon, mold, low oxygen, CO, CO2, gas leak, propane leak all in one.
Great comparison. This isn't non-sensical; you are doing what a resourceful or desperate person would do. What's non sensical is how often power outage happens even without major natural events.
Right? I had a squirrel the other day chew through something in a transformer. We had a blackout for like 3000 people for 8 hours while they replaced the transformer. You just never know! Thanks for watching!
Not realy a good way to show how long your Delta Max will run.. Running the Delta out side in the cold will reduce its run times compared to running inside where it's warmer.... Also you shouldn't run the Delta if the Temps are to low.
It has protections and will shut off when it is outside usable parameters. If you aren't getting an error code you're ok, you can discharge LFP below freezing and it won't charge until it's warmed up.
I specialize in real world tests…and let me tell ya…the real world is definitely not a lab! Haha! So we throw whatever comes at the stuff and see what happens since in the end, that’s what really matters to us in the real world. ;) Thanks for watching!
Would be an interesting test to run same tests and loads in a warm setting and in a sub zero setting.. to see just how much the temps affect it. Maybe even one in hot temps
@@agile-heliuk1801 in my experience as long as it's within the safe temperature range, the efficiency doesn't change a ton until you approach the high end of the range and the cooling starts to struggle. these portable power stations need active cooling as is due to the inverter's waste heat so after running a bit they will settle internally to a warmer temp.
The truth? Given that pipes will freeze at 0 degrees (yes, I'm Canadian), if there was an extended multi day power outage, it'd be best to use the gas furnace if you are so equipped. With this in mind, a pig tail plug installed on the electrical junction box next to the furnace would be the cheapest solution. $6 dollars vs. $170 for the generator switch. Just make sure it's 12 awg wire and long enough to reach the portable power station. But if you really want to rough it out. Fill jugs of water, and the bathtub, then shut off the watermain. Drain the balance of the remaining water in the plumbing system. Then pick a room to hunker down in, with radiant heaters, like an electric baseboard or oil filled radiator or both. During the day, you could leave the house to look for supplies, warmth at community centers or open shopping malls, while the solar panels recharge the power supply. Just this past Saturday, a local community lost power in Montreal. Initially, 1200 people were without power. It's day 4 now. The utility company has yet to isolate the problem, so they've brought in large generators to supply power to the neighbourhood hit with the outage. But not every home has access to this supplementary energy.
Good practical test👍 not quite scientific but good enough. Also another option is a diesel heater, benefit being generally cheaper than propane to run, portable and the heat doesn't contain extra moisture like the buddy heaters. I was running a 30kbtu heater off and on in my uninsulated garage and it creates a ton of moisture, frost/ice was forming on the walls/sheathing in the garage...no bueno😅
Haha! DEFINITELY not scientific! But what it is is real world tests which is what we specialize in on this channel. After all, we could read reports and studies all day…but what really happens when exposed to all the variables in the real world is what we like to see. I’ve never used a diesel heater before. Would certainly be interesting to add to the mix and see what happens! Thanks for watching!
The heater does use power-it’s just not electrical power. It uses propane as its energy source, which is burned to produce heat. So while it doesn’t rely on electricity, it’s still consuming energy in the form of propane to operate.
Yes, it does use fuel for heat! I should have specified that in the video. And if you run out…you’re out. No way to generate propane with a solar panel! Thanks for pointing that out and for watching!
Agree on points made. I bought a Wave2 because not only is the Deltra Max or Pro connectable to solar but can also input solar to the Wave2 itself. When I bought the Wave2 I did not realize the 41° limitation but at a lower temperature it still works, but the battery drains quicker and less temperature heat output. The 107° temperature achieved in this test was achieved because the inside room temperature started at 70. But may still be OK for a total grid down situation and hunkering down in a smaller room. One option is to segregate one room in the basement (where the temperature would stay between 44 and 48), even with no heat in the house) with the input hose going into an adjacent room and the cold heating duct going into the basement food or other storage room. So no unequal pressure in the room being heated and the air intake generally would always be 45° or higher in a basement. Just need extra extensions for the hoses. This way you have a totally self-contained system that does not rely on natural gas being available. If available, a basement gives you a more stable temperature that you’re trying to heat up versus trying to heat up a room upstairs that is eventually exposed to whatever the outside temperature is. Another option is to buy a portable four and one air conditioner/heater. They will use double the energy of a wave to which you may not need for a small room and additionally they don’t work very well with the outside temperatures are below 41 either.
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Rather than how long they last you should look at how much thermal energy you get. As an example, a resitive heater will put out 3.4 BTU per watt or about 4800 BTU at 1430 watts.
Your outdoor heat pump was only using about 500 watts, but probably has a COP of around 3 or 4 at that temperature meaning it would be putting out somewhere near 3 or 4 times the resistive heater, so somewhere near 9 to 13 BTU per watt or 5000 to 6000 BTU.
Since the space heater would only last about 1.5 hours that's more like 7200 BTU total. The heat pump, however, is putting out 5K per hour for 9 hours, or 45000 BTU.
Great idea! Thanks for crunching some numbers and for watching!
Nice comparison. One option not mentioned is a kerosene heater. I use them frequently, but they are also great for emergencies. They can be run indoors, produce no CO (although I still maintain at least 2 CO detectors) and can be placed where you need the heat. Ultra refined fuel like KleenHeat lasts at least 2 years in storage. They run for 10 - 12 hours, no smoke or odor. Plus certain models that are not fully enclosed - ones with glass globes - give off quite a bit of light and function as a good light source. Small ones will output 10K BTU, large ones over 20K BTU.
I also like propane powered devices for emergencies, because propane has an infinite shelf life, assuming no tank leaks.
Thanks for sharing your experience with kerosene heaters. I'll keep that in mind for future videos. Thanks for watching!
How many sq ft is your house? What size room is the minisplit heating, door closed?
My house is just over 1,200. The room the mini split is conditioning is 20’ x 14’. I did have the door closed for the test. Thanks for watching!
I'm glad I have gas logs in my fireplace. All I need is power to run the blower on the logs. Logs are rated at 90,000 BTU's!
That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing!
But the cost of running your gas fireplace is enormous!
@@wigsandfluff5729 I've never calculated how much propane they use per hour, that would be interesting to know. I will run them on high to get the room warm, then cut the flame to minimum. But in an emergency situation I won't worry about the cost.
@@wigsandfluff5729 power outage scenario; keep alive, and pipes from freezing.
@@mikemotorbike4283 keep alive, and pipes from freezing."
Shut off the water main, then drain the plumbing system from the lowest faucet in the home.
It's inconvenient but so are burst pipes.
Thanks for the video, if I’m not mistaken you should be able to run the eco flow recirculating inside rather then bringing in outside air?
That’s a debate here online as far as what’s best ventilation wise. Seems like an interesting test I should try. Thanks for watching!
how to did you connect the delta 2 to the mini split compressor, what type of cable?
I just made my own power whip with a standard plug on the end. Thanks for watching!
I have a minisplit that the ac works great, but the heat is just OK, and it smells after a while, you should test a diesel heater and a natural gas heater if it's available in your area
Hummm. That probably means your mini split needs to cleaned because mine smells just fine and heat or air conditioning mode. I would like to try a diesel heater at some point! I don’t have one of those to test unfortunately. I do have natural gas and I did test my natural gas furnace in the video so hopefully you saw that! Thanks for watching!
Spot on. Great video. I have a Delta Pro and Extra Battery to power my gas furnace. Kerosene heaters are also a great backup.
Thanks for watching, you have a great set up!
Can that same modification be used on an oil furnance
Sure thing!
A tip for you. I know the wave 2 is SUPPOSED to use both hoses. However I was having a using doing that when the temps dropped below 30* so I just ran the vent hose outside and that fixed it. After that I was able to get temps from the vents back up into the 110’s. Basically reheating the already warm air from the room rather then trying to warm up air from outside
I guess that would work. The issue with that I suppose is that now you’ve put your room under negative pressure so now cold air from outside will seep in to make up the difference. But where it’s able to be tempered before going into the heat pump, I guess that’s how you’re raising the output temperature…but are you losing more heat energy as a result of the negative pressure? Not sure. Have to run some tests on that concept to see what’s best. Thanks for watching!
@@theresatrickforthat your test on the Wave 2 wasn't with a professional install like your mini split and furnace had. You said you test with what came in the box but the mini split and furnace didn't come with everything needed. So insulating the intake and exhaust hose on the Wave 2 would start to approach a professional install.
I think everyone knows a mini split is the most efficient, given a finite amount of energy to consume. The furnace only works because you have an infinite supply of gas to it. But it's also heating the whole house.
I've contemplated the Wave 2 and the only scenario where it really works is a small well insulated space with the hoses well insulated. I was not aware of the 41 degree limitation they state. That kills the deal for me.
I have mine set up like I mentioned and the negative pressure it creates is negligible compared to the heat it puts out. I have a 15x15 bedroom with 3 windows in it one of which I’m just using 1/2 thick insulated foam board to vent out the exhaust hose from the wave 2 and it’s capable of brining the room up to 70degrees no problem in fact in runs for about 7 minutes or so then off for about 15 minutes and repeats this cycle. So the room is bigger then the heater is designed for (10x10) and has three windows one with the worst insulation ever and it still is able to bring the room up to temperature without struggling. Also this is cheaper then a space heater because a space heater uses 1500 watts almost constantly where as the wave uses 500 watts intermittent. I get about 15 hours of runtime with the wave 2 on a Delta 2 Max and Extra battery (4kWh) sorry for the long message but point being the negative pressure in an apartment is negligible maybe it wouldn’t be so negligible in a tent or camper but it is in an apartment
You're only supposed to use the hoses on cooling mode, and it works better if it's not in the same room as you.
For heating I use zero hoses, works better that way, it gets hurt the colder that room is like all heat pumps.
@@downtube8fs you have to use at least 1 hose no matter what mode you in because it exhausts the opposite out the back. For example if it's in cooling mode you need a hose to exhaust the hot air out the window nif you have it in heating mode you need a hose to exhaust the cold air out the window. What ever mode it's in the opposite temperature air comes out the back. If you have no hoses hooked up at all then you'll expell hot and cold air into the same room
Ok the only thing I’d like to point out is yes you proved it could run the furnace but you didn’t give a run time like you did with all the other appliances. I know you said it could do it for at least 4 hours but as you stated the furnace isn’t going to run for 4 hours straight. So is it safe to say it’ll run it for 8? We didn’t get enough information from that test.
The furnace is a wild card. But if it’s not crazy cold outside and you have a decently insulated house and you’re using the furnace to just maintain your set temperature and not trying to heat up the house from it being cold, 8-12 hours would be a good estimate I would say!
@@theresatrickforthat Wouldn't it also be true for the split system heat pump that you were using? I would imagine that it did not run continuously or was it trying to heat the whole home? Even then, it would be a valuable comparison between the heat pump & the gas furnace. I would expect the gas furnace to win hands down.
@@koyamamoto5933 You can see in the timelapse of the mini-split running it is cycling on and off. So that's why it ran for like 10 hours. But, yes...I would agree with you that if you're wanting the maximum amount of heat for your entire house and the natural gas supply is intact...then the gas furnace is hands down the best thing to run!
A friend just texted she used a hurricane lamp and candle, kept her room at 65 last power outage in port Angeles wa winter weather. She also sent along a link for the clay pot and tea candle setup. Wonder what the monoxide dangers are?
Yeah, not sure. She could certainly get one of the CO detectors I used which measures in 1% increments (link in video description and pinned comment) and see what the results are! It would be interesting to hear! Thanks for watching!
That heat pump test was one of the single most important tests i've ever seen done for these for so many reasons. Not only is this good to know for an outage, you just determined how much battery capacity and solar is needed to run one of these during moderate weather. If 2kwh lasts 10 hours then a 5kwh battery being able to get 1 day out of that is fantastic information, it's actually reasonably achievable to run it for most of the year on just a sub 5k usd solar+battery system with minimal fallback to grid power.
So happy to hear this was helpful to you! It is pretty amazing how efficient those small min-split heat pumps are. Of course it can loose efficiency as it gets colder. But I rarely get extreme cold. Thanks for watching!
Very helpful video. Thanks for putting this together. I had a Mr Buddy heater for emergency heat but returned it due to CO risk. Im still on the lookout for a heat source, in the meantime I bought electric blankets that I'll run off of EcoFlow inverters. Im in southern NC so it doesnt get crazy cold here too often.
Glad you found it helpful! Electric blankets are a great solution! Thanks for watching!
Question. When power comes back on, is there an override in case you’re not at the location (a remote cabin let’s say).
There are ways either through the app or smart switches depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Thanks for watching!
Do you not need a neutral ground bonding plug when you're running the furnace from the EcoFlow?
That my friend is why you get one of those EZ Generator Switches! It takes care of all the bonding for you! Thanks for watching!
@theresatrickforthat Sounds like a solution. Thx
The grounding rod is installed by the home builders, the year the house was built. When the generator switch is installed, the ground is daisy chained onto the furnace electrical junction box.
Great video thank you! There is one other option for you to consider. For anyone who has a gas fireplace (most homes seem to have one) you should be able to run the fireplace, without the fan, in a power outage situation. The two most common fireplace types - electronic ignition fireplaces can work with a common AA battery if the power goes out and a a millivolt system fireplace does not require any external power, and operates solely off of the pilot light being lit. You simply need to add a battery fan (like the RYOBI USB Lithium Clamp Fan Kit with 2.0 Ah USB Lithium Battery) in front of the fireplace top grill opening to blow the warm air into the room - similar to what the fireplace internal fan would do. Or you could power a small fan off of the Delta power station. The run time on this solution - provided the natural gas continues to flow - would be days or even weeks.
True! Great point! I’m one of the people that DON’T have a gas fireplace. But for those of you who do…definitely a great option! Thanks for watching!
If I had a natural gas furnace like yours that would be my first choice. Instead I have a central ducted heat pump that I can run via generator power. My 8kw propane inverter generator plugs into an inlet on the side of the house and I use an interlock to make sure power can only come in via either the grid or the generator, not both at once. With a soft start on the heat pump and the heat strips disabled during the defrost cycle, the generator runs everything fine.
I have an electric space heater I can power with a smaller generator if necessary, and multiple buddy heaters. I wonder if the CO level would be so high if taking measurements farther from the buddy heater. While the buddy heater would be my 3rd or 4th choice, if I were to use it my goal would be to have my broan energy recovery ventilator still running via battery power to provide fresh air since it only takes 24 watts per hour and hopefully that would keep CO levels low. Another option I may try at some point would be a direct vent wall furnace that doesn't require electricity and can run via a 100lb propane tank since I don't have NG available.
Sounds like you have a pretty well-rounded plan! Thanks for sharing! Just make sure you have a lot of fuel stored for that generator! Thanks for watching!
The whole house furnace will keep you warm as long as the NG/propane. Nothing is comparable to its scale, so if you have the ability to keep power to the unit, through any means, it will always keep you warm.
I 100% agree! Thanks for watching!
Run the small ceramic heater on low not only does the fan keep running, but it drops the wattage down by half also put a fan behind it which will push more heat through the little heater since that little fan in the heater is much too small to move a large volume of air.. I also didn’t run it at 70. I just kept the temp at 60 so it’s cycled on and off only when it needed to which not only extended the time by three times but circulated to heat more efficiently.
Great ideas and thoughts! Thanks for watching!
I got a propane gas insert in my fire place. You can run it for 3 days off of 4 AA batteries. I got a small battery bank that will power it for like a month. The mini split looks to be a great source of heat and A/C thought based just off of a small back up battery generator.
Nice setup! Thanks for watching!
Interesting , Thank You .
You bet! Glad you found it interesting. Thanks for watching!
Minisplit is the best, and running it on the battery bank is very efficient, as you can simultaneously charge and discharge your battery with no issues.
Yep! Thanks for watching!
Couple things:
TL;DR:
-Keep mini split battery inside plugged into wall, and run extension cord outside through window
-Remove portable heat-pump cold air intake pipe when below 41°F outside, and use inside air like a single hose model.
-Double hose Portable heat pumps usually only have the intake pipe going to the window until the outside temp goes down to 41°F. Then you detach it and let the inside air enter the unit to have its heat extracted. The exhaust pipe stays in the window at all times in any case. Some warmed air is lost by evacuating inside air, yes, but as it is already prewarmed, more heat is extracted, compensating for it. Yes some cold air will be drawn in through the house cracks, but the efficiency is actually not that bad compared to a two pipe setup. Only heat pumps specifically designed for below 40°F can use the cold outside air intake pipe. Below freezing and cold efficient models are more expensive, so you'd know if you had one.
-The mini split battery sitting outside over 10 hours might go below freezing. Charging the battery below freezing might destroy the battery if it doesn't have a cold temp charge acceptance cutoff. When it's a few more degrees below freezing, the battery will be unable to even provide power. Regardless, it's overall less efficient at cold temps and may be destroyed if left outside. Best to keep it inside plugged into the wall, like a UPS - and run the power cord out a window. Also, if the grid power comes on for a while, if the battery remains plugged into the wall, there is the possibly to catch the chance to automatically recharge it a bit during the uptime.
-Also. "Heat Buddy"- type catalytic propane heaters are widely used by RVers. They're tried and proven. Although, like some others, I get a splitting headache when using one. I still have one as a backup to stay warm and heat the pipes, with a window cracked open.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas and for watching!
I lost power during an ice storm. I was the only person on the block with lights. I Just hooks up my delta to my fridge and tv.
Nice setup! Thanks for watching!
Very well done video. Surprised about that mini split.
Thank you! I was surprised too with that mini split! I’m sure if it was a colder day and the room it conditions is less insulated it would be a much lower run time. But the world is full of variables, so I’m just showing the real world results from my house and my experience. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing that safety tip at the beginning. And the name of a good tool to test CO2. I have a mr. Buddy heater that fits on top of the 20 lb cyclinder. Never had no issues and used it to warm up the house on a daily basis.
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!
It's CO not CO2.
@@vashon100 CO is carbon monoxide. Those are the alarms close to the ceiling. It is lighter than o2 ( oxygen). CO2 is carbon dioxide. Those alarms should be a foot off the ground. It is more dense than oxygen. Do you know of any good volatile detector that test for multiple compounds? Such as Radeon, mold, low oxygen, CO, CO2, gas leak, propane leak all in one.
@lamarwilliams185 I know the difference. You said his tester was CO2, it's CO.
@@vashon100 OK!! Thanks!!!
Should've tested how much CO was present for all the other heaters too. Just to be fair to the Buddy heater. Might surprise you.
Haha! Sounds good! Thanks for watching!
Great comparison. This isn't non-sensical; you are doing what a resourceful or desperate person would do. What's non sensical is how often power outage happens even without major natural events.
Right? I had a squirrel the other day chew through something in a transformer. We had a blackout for like 3000 people for 8 hours while they replaced the transformer. You just never know! Thanks for watching!
Not realy a good way to show how long your Delta Max will run..
Running the Delta out side in the cold will reduce its run times compared to running inside where it's warmer....
Also you shouldn't run the Delta if the Temps are to low.
It has protections and will shut off when it is outside usable parameters. If you aren't getting an error code you're ok, you can discharge LFP below freezing and it won't charge until it's warmed up.
@rcguymike yes they will work. But the colder they are. The less time or energy you will get.
I specialize in real world tests…and let me tell ya…the real world is definitely not a lab! Haha! So we throw whatever comes at the stuff and see what happens since in the end, that’s what really matters to us in the real world. ;) Thanks for watching!
Would be an interesting test to run same tests and loads in a warm setting and in a sub zero setting.. to see just how much the temps affect it.
Maybe even one in hot temps
@@agile-heliuk1801 in my experience as long as it's within the safe temperature range, the efficiency doesn't change a ton until you approach the high end of the range and the cooling starts to struggle. these portable power stations need active cooling as is due to the inverter's waste heat so after running a bit they will settle internally to a warmer temp.
The truth? Given that pipes will freeze at 0 degrees (yes, I'm Canadian), if there was an extended multi day power outage, it'd be best to use the gas furnace if you are so equipped. With this in mind, a pig tail plug installed on the electrical junction box next to the furnace would be the cheapest solution. $6 dollars vs. $170 for the generator switch. Just make sure it's 12 awg wire and long enough to reach the portable power station.
But if you really want to rough it out. Fill jugs of water, and the bathtub, then shut off the watermain. Drain the balance of the remaining water in the plumbing system. Then pick a room to hunker down in, with radiant heaters, like an electric baseboard or oil filled radiator or both. During the day, you could leave the house to look for supplies, warmth at community centers or open shopping malls, while the solar panels recharge the power supply.
Just this past Saturday, a local community lost power in Montreal. Initially, 1200 people were without power. It's day 4 now. The utility company has yet to isolate the problem, so they've brought in large generators to supply power to the neighbourhood hit with the outage. But not every home has access to this supplementary energy.
Great thoughts! Crazy to hear about that outage! Thanks for watching!
Wood Burning Stove and a 9K Mini Split Heat Pump hands down
Sounds like a great setup!! Thanks for watching!
Good practical test👍 not quite scientific but good enough. Also another option is a diesel heater, benefit being generally cheaper than propane to run, portable and the heat doesn't contain extra moisture like the buddy heaters. I was running a 30kbtu heater off and on in my uninsulated garage and it creates a ton of moisture, frost/ice was forming on the walls/sheathing in the garage...no bueno😅
Haha! DEFINITELY not scientific! But what it is is real world tests which is what we specialize in on this channel. After all, we could read reports and studies all day…but what really happens when exposed to all the variables in the real world is what we like to see. I’ve never used a diesel heater before. Would certainly be interesting to add to the mix and see what happens! Thanks for watching!
I’d use a diesel heater.
I’d like to try one sometime! Unfortunately, I don’t have one so I couldn’t include it in the video! Thanks for watching!
Not indoors
@@nathanr.8556 Put them outside and vent the hot air in.
@rogerhargreaves2272 Okay
An electric blanket and or a couple of hand warmers under a couple of blankets is all you need.
That is certainly an option. Personally speaking, that would be my last resort…but that is a very efficient and effective way to stay warm
I disagree because how are things when you are outside of the blanket? I want the whole space to be comfortable.
The heater does use power-it’s just not electrical power. It uses propane as its energy source, which is burned to produce heat. So while it doesn’t rely on electricity, it’s still consuming energy in the form of propane to operate.
Yes, it does use fuel for heat! I should have specified that in the video. And if you run out…you’re out. No way to generate propane with a solar panel! Thanks for pointing that out and for watching!
Agree on points made. I bought a Wave2 because not only is the Deltra Max or Pro connectable to solar but can also input solar to the Wave2 itself. When I bought the Wave2 I did not realize the 41° limitation but at a lower temperature it still works, but the battery drains quicker and less temperature heat output. The 107° temperature achieved in this test was achieved because the inside room temperature started at 70. But may still be OK for a total grid down situation and hunkering down in a smaller room. One option is to segregate one room in the basement (where the temperature would stay between 44 and 48), even with no heat in the house) with the input hose going into an adjacent room and the cold heating duct going into the basement food or other storage room. So no unequal pressure in the room being heated and the air intake generally would always be 45° or higher in a basement. Just need extra extensions for the hoses. This way you have a totally self-contained system that does not rely on natural gas being available. If available, a basement gives you a more stable temperature that you’re trying to heat up versus trying to heat up a room upstairs that is eventually exposed to whatever the outside temperature is. Another option is to buy a portable four and one air conditioner/heater. They will use double the energy of a wave to which you may not need for a small room and additionally they don’t work very well with the outside temperatures are below 41 either.
Too bad that mini split wasn't the direct solar model it would run all day with that much sun.
Right? One day maybe! Thanks for watching!
Mr heater gives me headache.
Definitely want to look into these other options then! Thanks for watching!
@@theresatrickforthat diesel heater are the best.
Eco wave 2 heater will not work under 41 degrees I contacted company to confirm
can i stay at ur house🙏
Haha! You won't want to pay my price! Thanks for watching!