Hi Richard. Must admit I've never heard of this novel nor, in fact, the author. Makes me wonder how they select these Masterwork books. For me the term means best of the best so I'm thinking how does this stack up against some of the Hugo, Nebula winners and acknowledged classics that form this series. Given your decent score of 8, do you feel this book is a worthy entry to the series ?
@@kennyrh9269 Really don’t know how the books are selected other than Gollancz owns their rights. It is a good novel but there are definitely some career SF authors’ works not represented.
I haven't read Gor Saga/First Born, but I have a vague memory of the miniseries. Mind you, I didn't see the whole thing. I would have been about 13 at the time. I remember a scene where Gor, having found out about his origins, was talking to a clergyman. The clergyman pretty much condemned Gor as a blasphemous freak. In the very last scene before the credits roll, we see Dr Forester's face breaking into a scream of horror. But I can't remember why.
I actually did see the miniseries (quite a short one I think, perhaps only two episodes) a very long time ago, when I was a rather naive and immature 21yo. Did not know it was based on a book, but that rings true for me because I remember at the time thinking the plot had a rather stagey and arch resolution which seemed more literary SF than TV fodder. It was well made as far as I recall, and held my attention right up to the end. The surreal ending in which religious gatekeepers played a prominent role disturbed me at the time (I was a naive Catholic lad, as I said). But like all good SF it certainly made me think.
@@steempunk Thank you for your recollections about the series. If I remember correctly I read it was three episodes of approximately 50 minutes each. Adds up to a long movie.
Yes that's kind of my impression. It felt exactly like a movie broken into a few digestible chunks. But it worked well for the story. UK tv used to do 'serious' SF pretty well usually on a limited budget
Even if pervasive in its social commentary at times, First Born at least sounds like an interesting read - and in any case I do enjoy looking over whatever commentary/debates/themes/so-on I come across in my own personal library. How well do you feel that Duffy tackled these subjects / do you have any extensive thoughts about it rattling in your head? Either way, I’m going to try and check it out for myself, though if I can’t hunt down the novel then the mini-series works as a last resort, surely it's lurking out there on the web
@@nosetampons6887 At times I felt like I was reading ‘Flowers for Algernon’. There are some parallels in Charley and Gor’s experiences. Prejudice and personhood are themes that stand out for me. Also the hubris of science or at least scientists.
I saw the miniseries when it came out in 1988 (I was 15 at the time). Dr. Forester's look of horror at the end is because he realizes Gor was the father of his daughter's baby, which he knows because the child can only say, "Na", like Gor did before his operation. I remember the series was criticised for leaving out the political elements of the novel. But from this review, it seems like religion, specifically Roman Catholicism, is a much more important theme in the TV series than in the book.
Thank you so much for your report on the miniseries. That ending isn't from the novel. Religion is a part of the story but it isn't dominant. One thing I didn't talk about in the review is how it critiques foster care and the control of the scientist. Gor never has stability in his childhood.
The first time I heard of this... somewhere in the 80s I think. Something in the periphery of my interests(world). I vaguely remember that I looked at it as nonsense. Now I think, hm, more interesting then one would think. Besides this the only Chimera in SF I read about stems from the SiFi novel The Ring of Ritornel, by Charles S. Harness. The way the Universe works/develops, anti matter and the cyclic nature of time play a big role in an epic adventure novel in which the future of the human race come to depend on hyperintelligent being that is part human, part horse and something else. His coming into being is the unintended result of a genetic experiment which goal it was to save the life of the a universal dictator by the name of Oberon. I can only recommend to read this short by highly entertaining novel. Remarkable is that this hyperintelligent and very sympathetic Chimera ends up with the Pretty Girl, Oberon's daughter, to become the Adam and Eve for a renewed human race (cause we, with our wars, corruption etc are doomed).
Okay, this is another book that I am not familiar with. The title makes me wonder if Maureen Duffy had 'The Ugly Little Boy' by Issac Asimov, in mind when she wrote this. The short story was originally published in Galaxy magazine in 1958 under the title 'Lastborn'. It concerns a Neanderthal child brought forward in time and centers around scientists, who see the child as the subject of an experiment, and a nurse who cares for him as he learns to speak and to adapt to the modern world; she comes to see him as a person. Of course, the similarity in title and story could just be a coincidence. I tend to see patterns where, perhaps, none exist.
@@paulcooper3611 Read that story. Definitely follows the path to being open and generous in personhood. Reminds me a bit of Charley’s journey in ‘Flowers for Algernon’.
@@vintagesf I took the novel 'Flowers For Algernon' with me when I did my drive from the Olympic Peninsula in Washington to Massachusetts. Reading a section of it each night would make a nice bookend to a cross-country drive. Of course, when I got to Northampton, MA, I was overjoyed to end my trip. Then I had to finish things with the saddest ending to an SF story I have ever read.
@@brp5497 I used the word personhood to try to stay away from soul. Of course the author goes there with chapters involving the church and pastor. Personhood is recognizing the dignity and rights of another being. It is easy to seek to make that which is other less than ourselves. I think this is the core theme Duffy is exploring.
@@vintagesf I was suggesting a different view as the Christian one is always put forth. Even personhood. No self is helpful as most thinking comes out of that. Meditation practice trains ones mind and then silence is most of the day. Looking at things that cause mental proliferation. Any ideas with a self in it is called rebirth. We have ourself in a situation in our heads. I'm a doctor, etc . It's thinking. Zen is a blank sheet of paper.
Wow! I've never heard of this novel or the mini-series. Sounds like an interesting read
Sounds a little like a Heinlein novel gone slightly off track! This is a completely new one to me thanks for highlighting it Richard.
Hi Richard. Must admit I've never heard of this novel nor, in fact, the author. Makes me wonder how they select these Masterwork books. For me the term means best of the best so I'm thinking how does this stack up against some of the Hugo, Nebula winners and acknowledged classics that form this series. Given your decent score of 8, do you feel this book is a worthy entry to the series ?
@@kennyrh9269 Really don’t know how the books are selected other than Gollancz owns their rights. It is a good novel but there are definitely some career SF authors’ works not represented.
I haven't read Gor Saga/First Born, but I have a vague memory of the miniseries. Mind you, I didn't see the whole thing. I would have been about 13 at the time. I remember a scene where Gor, having found out about his origins, was talking to a clergyman. The clergyman pretty much condemned Gor as a blasphemous freak. In the very last scene before the credits roll, we see Dr Forester's face breaking into a scream of horror. But I can't remember why.
Good teaser for the mini series!
I actually did see the miniseries (quite a short one I think, perhaps only two episodes) a very long time ago, when I was a rather naive and immature 21yo. Did not know it was based on a book, but that rings true for me because I remember at the time thinking the plot had a rather stagey and arch resolution which seemed more literary SF than TV fodder. It was well made as far as I recall, and held my attention right up to the end. The surreal ending in which religious gatekeepers played a prominent role disturbed me at the time (I was a naive Catholic lad, as I said). But like all good SF it certainly made me think.
@@steempunk Thank you for your recollections about the series. If I remember correctly I read it was three episodes of approximately 50 minutes each. Adds up to a long movie.
Yes that's kind of my impression. It felt exactly like a movie broken into a few digestible chunks. But it worked well for the story. UK tv used to do 'serious' SF pretty well usually on a limited budget
Shame it's unavailable on streaming. Hard to find anything made before about 2015 now
Even if pervasive in its social commentary at times, First Born at least sounds like an interesting read - and in any case I do enjoy looking over whatever commentary/debates/themes/so-on I come across in my own personal library. How well do you feel that Duffy tackled these subjects / do you have any extensive thoughts about it rattling in your head? Either way, I’m going to try and check it out for myself, though if I can’t hunt down the novel then the mini-series works as a last resort, surely it's lurking out there on the web
@@nosetampons6887 At times I felt like I was reading ‘Flowers for Algernon’. There are some parallels in Charley and Gor’s experiences. Prejudice and personhood are themes that stand out for me. Also the hubris of science or at least scientists.
I saw the miniseries when it came out in 1988 (I was 15 at the time). Dr. Forester's look of horror at the end is because he realizes Gor was the father of his daughter's baby, which he knows because the child can only say, "Na", like Gor did before his operation. I remember the series was criticised for leaving out the political elements of the novel. But from this review, it seems like religion, specifically Roman Catholicism, is a much more important theme in the TV series than in the book.
Thank you so much for your report on the miniseries. That ending isn't from the novel. Religion is a part of the story but it isn't dominant. One thing I didn't talk about in the review is how it critiques foster care and the control of the scientist. Gor never has stability in his childhood.
The first time I heard of this... somewhere in the 80s I think. Something in the periphery of my interests(world). I vaguely remember that I looked at it as nonsense. Now I think, hm, more interesting then one would think. Besides this the only Chimera in SF I read about stems from the SiFi novel The Ring of Ritornel, by Charles S. Harness. The way the Universe works/develops, anti matter and the cyclic nature of time play a big role in an epic adventure novel in which the future of the human race come to depend on hyperintelligent being that is part human, part horse and something else. His coming into being is the unintended result of a genetic experiment which goal it was to save the life of the a universal dictator by the name of Oberon. I can only recommend to read this short by highly entertaining novel. Remarkable is that this hyperintelligent and very sympathetic Chimera ends up with the Pretty Girl, Oberon's daughter, to become the Adam and Eve for a renewed human race (cause we, with our wars, corruption etc are doomed).
@@theobolt250 Watching for Harness in the used bookstores. He seems to be a well regarded writer.
And then there is The Neanderthal Parallax series by Robert J. Sawyer. Not quite on topic, but related.
@@wark5048 Personhood definitely fits. I read The Neanderthal Parallax when it first came out. I’m a bit hazy on it. Do want to reread Sawyer’s works.
Okay, this is another book that I am not familiar with. The title makes me wonder if Maureen Duffy had 'The Ugly Little Boy' by Issac Asimov, in mind when she wrote this. The short story was originally published in Galaxy magazine in 1958 under the title 'Lastborn'. It concerns a Neanderthal child brought forward in time and centers around scientists, who see the child as the subject of an experiment, and a nurse who cares for him as he learns to speak and to adapt to the modern world; she comes to see him as a person. Of course, the similarity in title and story could just be a coincidence. I tend to see patterns where, perhaps, none exist.
@@paulcooper3611 Read that story. Definitely follows the path to being open and generous in personhood. Reminds me a bit of Charley’s journey in ‘Flowers for Algernon’.
@@vintagesf I took the novel 'Flowers For Algernon' with me when I did my drive from the Olympic Peninsula in Washington to Massachusetts. Reading a section of it each night would make a nice bookend to a cross-country drive. Of course, when I got to Northampton, MA, I was overjoyed to end my trip. Then I had to finish things with the saddest ending to an SF story I have ever read.
@@paulcooper3611 It still and always will be a 10/10 for me.
No self of Buddhism. Different ideas than Christian orientation of a permanent lasting self or soul.
@@brp5497 I used the word personhood to try to stay away from soul. Of course the author goes there with chapters involving the church and pastor. Personhood is recognizing the dignity and rights of another being. It is easy to seek to make that which is other less than ourselves. I think this is the core theme Duffy is exploring.
@@vintagesf I was suggesting a different view as the Christian one is always put forth. Even personhood. No self is helpful as most thinking comes out of that. Meditation practice trains ones mind and then silence is most of the day. Looking at things that cause mental proliferation. Any ideas with a self in it is called rebirth. We have ourself in a situation in our heads. I'm a doctor, etc . It's thinking. Zen is a blank sheet of paper.