I have one on my 2007 KTM 250 XC. Running a heavy duty tube at 12 psi. Has one ride at Penrose (lots of rocks), 4 days in Moab this spring (rocks, slickrock, sand, desert terrain), and one ride in Divide area (rocks, scree, sand). Holding upper better than I thought it would, since the knobs rounded a bit after the first rocky ride at Penrose. Probably as good of wear as any other tire we've recently run. Traction is real good, especially on slickrock. Sticks like glue. Price is reasonable. I recommend it as a knobby, especially if you've gotten used to trials tires, but would like to go back to a knobby and try it.
You can tell Jeff is to the point and very honest. I'd bet he is off camera just like he is on. Some guys put on a front. He just doesn't sugar-coat and dance around. I'm gonna start ordering from his site.
Jeff, do you know what the lowest PSI you can run on these with a heavy duty tube, not tubliss? For rider around 200 pounds. Thanks, appreciate all the videos, I've learned a lot from you.
Nice thanks for the review on this tire! The price is good; I've only had experience with Shinko Dual Sport tires on my GS and didn't like them, but I might have to give this tire a try, when my Kenda Triple wears out (just got it, and hopefully will have good results at this weekends CORCs race).
I have a ktm xcf 350 just bought the 505 cheater but went up a size to the 120. I did not put it on yet as I am waiting for my tubliss to come in. Do you think I should stick with the 120 or go back to the stock 110/100? Is there any disadvantage to going bigger except for adding more weight??
thanks for the review Jeff, are you liking it better than the sadona? I'm about to order some tires from you. what do you think about the 546 for the front or what do you recommend for the hard trails here in Arizona desert? I already have my tubliss ready to go so can't wait to hear back from you, thanks again
Jeff what do you think gets better traction the 505 cheater or Kenda Equilibrium for technical single track? Hard pack full of rock, root and hard pack clay
john barringer man I LOVED my Equilibrium. That tire had traction everywhere except faster cornering, but I was ok w/ that because of the traction I got on hills. I just ordered the 505 so I can’t speak on the comparison yet, but I’ll report back afterwards if you haven’t gotten an answer!
I've watched a few of your videos trying to keep up with some newer tires I have a 08 kx250f frame with a 2004 kx250 motor in it. I run mainly trail intermediate to hard packed trails and hill climbs. (some are all shale in an old strip mine) what tire would you recommened I try?
Jeff, what is your thought on this 505 cheater on a '13 KTM 350 EXC-F(desmogged), 120/100x18 or 110/100x18? Considering it was factory equipped with a 140/80x18, I'd lean towards the 120 but it sounds like these tires are heavier than the competition.
Bob: Tire sizes are NOT uniform between brands. A 140 in one brand is the same width as a 110 in another brand. I have a video that explains this. The 505 is a damn good tire but the 520C slavensracing.com/shop/r520dc-rear-tire-by-shinko/ is much better.
@@slaverace1 I get the differences between manuf., depending where they measure width. But in the 505 cheater you recommend on your website the 110/100x18 for all but the big bores, yet the 520C a 120/100 is ok? I thought it was a weight issue for smaller bikes? A co-worker recommended the 505 cheater, as he has good experience using it in hare scrambles with traction over the competition here in NW PA. Otherwise I would steer towards a US brand. I'd prefer not to increase seat, I'm 5'11 175lb.@54yrs old but only flat footed now with it being previously lowered 1" front/rear. I see these tires run taller but is that due to being a softer gummy hybrid and squat more?
Trials tires have poor braking, mediocre traction in turns and most are radial which makes them very wiggly at higher speeds. This tire out-performs trials tires for almost all conditions.
Hi Jeff.. do you run tubliss on the front as well? I’m assuming you put more than 5psi up front. I’m running a KDX 220 and just ordered the rear tubliss.
Not a fan of cheater tire's at all....they only grip and get good traction at lower speeds in the rocks and, spin and give everywhere else....and by give I mean the tread folds over and, the rearend of the bike feel's washy like you're only running 5 psi....not good tire's at all for fast agressive rider's that want a tire to perform! And, I also like Jeff live in Colorado and, ride the hardest/gnarliest singletracks in Colorado riding around 40-50 times a season and, putting over 150 hrs on my bike every season.
Fair enough BUT 100s of customers disagree with you. You also didn't provide any information about your set-up that can negatively effect the tire's performance, such as tire pressure, tubes, mousses. Without accurate set-up information your post has little validity.
@@slaverace1 I run tubes and, yes tubliss does work better to run lower tire pressure's to get better traction. But, running low pressure causes most tire's to roll over and, be washy...and, yes tubliss and, a stiffer sidewall helps that but, with a "gummy" "cheater" tire the knobs roll over and, you still get the same effect of the rearend of your bike being washy no matter how high of pressure you run in it! Yes, you do get more traction on rocks with a gummy/cheater tire and, lower pressures but, every where else the lower pressure's (under 12 psi) do'nt work well for fast/aggressive rider's. I would run and, like the mouse bib's when they are new but, they are too heavy, do'nt last and, break down quick witch the front rim bottom's out on hard hit's and the rear give's the same washy not solid feeling and, after awhile it does'nt let the "tire" perform how it should. The tire should perform by only "giving" the little bit of that it should have to absorb the hard hit's on rock's, etc. The tire should be "aired up" and, solid enough to hold and, not be "washy" to let the tire and, really the "tread" of the tire perform like it should. And, yes it is hard to find a good tire that has a good durometer to perform and, to not "chunk", last and, get traction all in one. I run 15 psi in the rear and 16 psi in the front to avoid not getting pinch flats and, to also have the tire/tread perform the way it should witch in return makes the bike handle and, perform the way it should....your suspension should be what soaks up the hard stuff on the trail....not your tire's. And, all though you are still able to run down to 10-12psi and, have some tire's still perform....running lower than 15 psi on trails/at faster speeds with tubes you highly risk pinch flats and, bottoming out your front rim on hard hit's.
OK, good information. There are no perfect tires, never will be BUT the Cheaters are a good choice for 90% of riders in the Rocky Mtns. . Correct suspension settings (valving/springs) are the main component for absorbing trail trash but tires are also part of the equation. I'd quit riding if I had to run 15-16 PSI. You might consider the IRC VE33S slavensracing.com/shop/volcanduro-ve-33s-rear-enduro-tire-by-irc but get the pressure down to at least 10-12.
@@slaverace1 Well....you used to have too and, running those pressure's is'nt that bad when you ride fast through it and, have you suspension set up right!
Try watching our latest video (Nitro Mousse) and let me know how the sound is. We have new equipment and I think the sound is much better but you can be the judge.
I have one on my 2007 KTM 250 XC. Running a heavy duty tube at 12 psi. Has one ride at Penrose (lots of rocks), 4 days in Moab this spring (rocks, slickrock, sand, desert terrain), and one ride in Divide area (rocks, scree, sand). Holding upper better than I thought it would, since the knobs rounded a bit after the first rocky ride at Penrose. Probably as good of wear as any other tire we've recently run. Traction is real good, especially on slickrock. Sticks like glue. Price is reasonable. I recommend it as a knobby, especially if you've gotten used to trials tires, but would like to go back to a knobby and try it.
You can tell Jeff is to the point and very honest. I'd bet he is off camera just like he is on. Some guys put on a front. He just doesn't sugar-coat and dance around. I'm gonna start ordering from his site.
I dont think you mentioned what the non cheater compound read on the durometer
Jeff, do you know what the lowest PSI you can run on these with a heavy duty tube, not tubliss? For rider around 200 pounds. Thanks, appreciate all the videos, I've learned a lot from you.
Some guys run 8PSI but TUbliss is the way to go.
Nice thanks for the review on this tire! The price is good; I've only had experience with Shinko Dual Sport tires on my GS and didn't like them, but I might have to give this tire a try, when my Kenda Triple wears out (just got it, and hopefully will have good results at this weekends CORCs race).
I just ordered the 505 Cheater and 246 front..Both of them in the lower profile..The bike sits too high with the taller tires on my 350 XCF..
when Slavens speaks, I listens
Hey Jeff,.would this tire be good for me in Ohio singletrack in the mud and slop?
So do u prefer this shinko 50t or the sedona that you showed in this same video?
What tires would be recommended or work well for a Hare Scramble? Mostly woods, gravel. No rocky terrain.
At81
I have a ktm xcf 350 just bought the 505 cheater but went up a size to the 120. I did not put it on yet as I am waiting for my tubliss to come in. Do you think I should stick with the 120 or go back to the stock 110/100? Is there any disadvantage to going bigger except for adding more weight??
thanks for the review Jeff, are you liking it better than the sadona? I'm about to order some tires from you. what do you think about the 546 for the front or what do you recommend for the hard trails here in Arizona desert? I already have my tubliss ready to go so can't wait to hear back from you, thanks again
I use both the Sedona 907 and the Shinko Cheater and like them both. Try them both but I think the Sedona might be better for AZ.
Jeff what do you think gets better traction the 505 cheater or Kenda Equilibrium for technical single track? Hard pack full of rock, root and hard pack clay
john barringer man I LOVED my Equilibrium. That tire had traction everywhere except faster cornering, but I was ok w/ that because of the traction I got on hills. I just ordered the 505 so I can’t speak on the comparison yet, but I’ll report back afterwards if you haven’t gotten an answer!
And what did you think after trying the 505?
??
Alex Chamberlin - I also had both, I liked the kenda a little more but it wore out a lot more quickly for me. Cant go wrong with either.
I use the 120 for my 250 bc of the big footprint and larger knobs
What size would you recommend for the 17 FE501 and what qould you recommend for front?
120-18
Bridgestone M59
I've watched a few of your videos trying to keep up with some newer tires I have a 08 kx250f frame with a 2004 kx250 motor in it. I run mainly trail intermediate to hard packed trails and hill climbs. (some are all shale in an old strip mine) what tire would you recommened I try?
Try the Cheater.
Jeff,.would this work for me in the Ohio mud and slop?.some of our singletrack has some soft deeper mud.
Not a good choice for Ohio mud. Try the 525 cheater.
Would you recommend this tire if NOT running Tubliss? If so, what pressure would it still be effective?
I would rather run whatever worn out tire you have with TUbliss than this tire new with a tube.
Customers have reported good performance with a tube at 8-9 psi BUT still not the performance you can achieve with TUbliss at 5 psi.
Jeff, what is your thought on this 505 cheater on a '13 KTM 350 EXC-F(desmogged), 120/100x18 or 110/100x18? Considering it was factory equipped with a 140/80x18, I'd lean towards the 120 but it sounds like these tires are heavier than the competition.
Bob: Tire sizes are NOT uniform between brands. A 140 in one brand is the same width as a 110 in another brand. I have a video that explains this. The 505 is a damn good tire but the 520C slavensracing.com/shop/r520dc-rear-tire-by-shinko/ is much better.
@@slaverace1 I get the differences between manuf., depending where they measure width. But in the 505 cheater you recommend on your website the 110/100x18 for all but the big bores, yet the 520C a 120/100 is ok? I thought it was a weight issue for smaller bikes? A co-worker recommended the 505 cheater, as he has good experience using it in hare scrambles with traction over the competition here in NW PA. Otherwise I would steer towards a US brand. I'd prefer not to increase seat, I'm 5'11 175lb.@54yrs old but only flat footed now with it being previously lowered 1" front/rear. I see these tires run taller but is that due to being a softer gummy hybrid and squat more?
@@slaverace1 that 520dc is hefty @ 14.25 lbs in comparison, robbing some hp
Jeff, took the plunge and ordered the 520DC & MX 216(90/90x21) from your website. Thanks for info!
@@bfitz3257
You're welcome.
I wonder how this tire compares to a good Trials Tire at 5PSI running tubliss?
was wondering about the tubliss myself....hey jeff slavens, thanks for the vids...what do you think of the tubliss system with this tire?
I test ALL tires with TUbliss.
Trials tires have poor braking, mediocre traction in turns and most are radial which makes them very wiggly at higher speeds. This tire out-performs trials tires for almost all conditions.
Jeff - are you and your buddies using tubes or tubliss? any problem with punctures or is the carcass fairly stiff?
TUbliss! Carcass is just stiff enough for it.
TUbliss. Have not experienced any carcass cuts yet and I've been hammering it through rock gardens.
Hi Jeff.. do you run tubliss on the front as well? I’m assuming you put more than 5psi up front. I’m running a KDX 220 and just ordered the rear tubliss.
Why don’t you recommend the 120-18 for 250 & 300 2 strokes????
It's way too big. That extra mass and weight robs HP.
what's a Moose? is that the silly tennis ball looking thing to replace an inner tube?
its a one piece non-pneumatic semi-firm foam-ish insert. if that makes sense.
Large brown animal, normally found in alaska, males have large bone structure protruding from top of head. Can be aggressive toward humans
Do you run tube or tubliss in order to get as low as 5 psi?
I've been using TUbliss for many years and love them!
Has anyone managed to compare the Maxxis IT 120/100/18 with the Shinko 505 120/100/18 in terms of size?
Is the 505 120 taller than Maxxis IT 120?
Thanks for the pressure recommendation.
👍👍👍
What pressure do you run with it? 5 psi?
Yes, 5PSI
Is this tyre the 505s xtreame cheater or the regular 505 cheater?
The regular 505 is not called a Cheater.
wow that looks very soft...
I think the tire in this video is the 525, not the 505.
Wrong, definitely a 505.
Not a fan of cheater tire's at all....they only grip and get good traction at lower speeds in the rocks and, spin and give everywhere else....and by give I mean the tread folds over and, the rearend of the bike feel's washy like you're only running 5 psi....not good tire's at all for fast agressive rider's that want a tire to perform! And, I also like Jeff live in Colorado and, ride the hardest/gnarliest singletracks in Colorado riding around 40-50 times a season and, putting over 150 hrs on my bike every season.
Fair enough BUT 100s of customers disagree with you. You also didn't provide any information about your set-up that can negatively effect the tire's performance, such as tire pressure, tubes, mousses. Without accurate set-up information your post has little validity.
@@slaverace1 I run tubes and, yes tubliss does work better to run lower tire pressure's to get better traction. But, running low pressure causes most tire's to roll over and, be washy...and, yes tubliss and, a stiffer sidewall helps that but, with a "gummy" "cheater" tire the knobs roll over and, you still get the same effect of the rearend of your bike being washy no matter how high of pressure you run in it! Yes, you do get more traction on rocks with a gummy/cheater tire and, lower pressures but, every where else the lower pressure's (under 12 psi) do'nt work well for fast/aggressive rider's. I would run and, like the mouse bib's when they are new but, they are too heavy, do'nt last and, break down quick witch the front rim bottom's out on hard hit's and the rear give's the same washy not solid feeling and, after awhile it does'nt let the "tire" perform how it should. The tire should perform by only "giving" the little bit of that it should have to absorb the hard hit's on rock's, etc. The tire should be "aired up" and, solid enough to hold and, not be "washy" to let the tire and, really the "tread" of the tire perform like it should. And, yes it is hard to find a good tire that has a good durometer to perform and, to not "chunk", last and, get traction all in one. I run 15 psi in the rear and 16 psi in the front to avoid not getting pinch flats and, to also have the tire/tread perform the way it should witch in return makes the bike handle and, perform the way it should....your suspension should be what soaks up the hard stuff on the trail....not your tire's. And, all though you are still able to run down to 10-12psi and, have some tire's still perform....running lower than 15 psi on trails/at faster speeds with tubes you highly risk pinch flats and, bottoming out your front rim on hard hit's.
OK, good information. There are no perfect tires, never will be BUT the Cheaters are a good choice for 90% of riders in the Rocky Mtns. . Correct suspension settings (valving/springs) are the main component for absorbing trail trash but tires are also part of the equation. I'd quit riding if I had to run 15-16 PSI.
You might consider the IRC VE33S slavensracing.com/shop/volcanduro-ve-33s-rear-enduro-tire-by-irc but get the pressure down to at least 10-12.
@@slaverace1 Well....you used to have too and, running those pressure's is'nt that bad when you ride fast through it and, have you suspension set up right!
I got the 120 for my 250
great advice very poor sound quality
Try watching our latest video (Nitro Mousse) and let me know how the sound is. We have new equipment and I think the sound is much better but you can be the judge.