TRIGGERED - Rian Johnson Finally Discusses Luke in New Last Jedi Interview
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2022
- Rian Johnson opens up about The Last Jedi 5 years later.
Here are my thoughts about what he has to say, including Luke Skywalker, Anakin, Rey / Daisy Ridley and the Sequels that Disney made as a whole.
Be civil ALWAYS when discussing your opinions. Be polite and good to one another. Express your views eloquently and respectfully.
May the force be with you.
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Развлечения
What are your thoughts?
Let's have a big discussion here in the comments, respectfully.
I am an advocate of freedom of speech and differing opinions. Just be respectful to your fellow Star Wars fan and explain your reasons in a well thought out paragraph.
Did you like the last jedi? Do you agree with Luke's arc? Do you agree with Rian Johnson's new comments?
To myself personally the sequels aren’t canon in my head.
‘Suckin on green tiddy milk’
i enjoy the movies more and more as time passes, there's lots of time for more starwars, no jedi should be perfect, there's room for everything.
As the great Matthew Stover said, “It’s not about what he would or could do, he did do it, it’s about why he would.”
I personally did not like TLJ , the visuals were amazing that's for sure bit in my opinion it was just wasted potential and plot holes yes I'm referring to the hyperspace collision scene and wasted potential referring to luke being utilised as the legendary character that he is one of the best fictional characters ever was sent off in a movie where he was treated like absolute garbage and rey getting a good backstor, I'm going to be honest here I didn't like rey in TFA however I was open to exploring her but that didn't happen the same I dont know who I am bs happened again like in TFA and when they actually did reveal her parentage or was absolute rubbish, and Finn and Poe were reduced to nothing as well so it's really hard for me to watch this movie heck even anakin didn't appear in luke his sons most desperate need and instead yoda did.....
When it first came out I didn't like it but after watching it more and more I grew to really enjoy TLJ. I'm still waiting for people to realize palps still isn't dead 🤣 the man died like 5 times in legends before they stopped milking him for all he was worth
Luke’s character in episode 8 is just too inconsistent with who he was in 6. And the problem is, no compelling story was told to convince us why we should accept this sudden change in his character.
Agree with the end of this comment, but it had been years since episode 6 so it makes sense he'd be different. Now of they had an understandable story? Sure. That'd be great
Well you would think he would have changed at least a little bit in 30 years
@@jovankandola Sure, but you expect people to continue on the path that they are. People don't change drastically for no reason. And knowing what Luke already went through, you need to tell a very convincing story to convince me that this is the way Luke should end up.
Every time I think of people Rian why Leia could breathe in space, why the characters were so different and why We never saw what Luke saw in Kylo, I think of Rian as Eric Cartman shrieking 'BECAUSE REASONS, AND THAT IS ALL! RESPECT MY AUTHORITAAAH!'. Rian has never had much humility or self awareness it seems.
Ik i’m in the minority but i think it was important to see a character like luke have some faults in 8, just wish it had a better cause and resolution
The whole sequel trilogy hinges on Ben Solo's fall. The canon explanation for his fall, requires us to believe that Leia who is force sensitive and compassionate had no idea her own child was so troubled, then rejected him at age 10 because she was afraid of him. It requires us to believe that Han Solo would be afraid of his own son, and that Luke would respond to his then 10 year old nephew by training him while being totally unaware and unsympathetic to how troubled the little boy was. Everyone would be afraid of Ben.
Remember Ben is 10 at this time, 11 years after ROTJ, Luke Leia and Han would not be that different.
Leia if anything would be able to tell that her boy was unhappy and would try to keep him with her, taking him to work and grooming him for politics. She would have high standards, wanting him to be trained by Luke, but she would not banish him out of fear. Han Solo would minimize everything, he would never be afraid of his own son, although I could see him being awkward with a baby or toddler. By age 10 Han would have that kid flying with him on the Falcon or fixing it. Luke would be almost overconfident in his ability to help young Ben find peace with his Jedi abilities. Remember Luke is only a decade off saving Vader.
The ST requires us to believe that NOT ONLY LUKE, BUT LEIA AND HAN reacted to a child in a very cold and fear based manner, and that they did this around a decade after the events of ROTJ. There is some explaining to be done here.
I wish I could copy paste this on those channels that's think Disney trilogy is good
The ending should have been Rae dying, and Kylo being given his own tv series.......about a fallen jedi, that is back on the path to redemption.....that would have fixed that train wreck of a movie.
Great Comment. Johnson missed it. Johnson doesn't have to admit it. It might be that he can't, or isn't allowed to admit that he went the wrong direction. At this point, no one would care if he did. He's a good story teller, and a good director.
@@BillMarion I did like knives out.
@@paulab5264 Me too. Looper was fantastic. I just left a comment here saying that I don't think TLJ was Johnson's movie because I can't reconcile TLJ to his other work. It's like two different people.
The worst offense isn't the changes to the character, it's that Rian failed to justify those changes. At no point did I believe the character would do those things given the situation we were presented with. It was so unconvincing it took me out of the narrative. It became a non-story.
EXACTLY!
I think they should’ve (at the minimum) at least made some of the characters that died in the temple have some kind of character development before so it would make it a sadder loss instead of just knowing that they died
Justification was fear, there you have it.
@@veganrican606 On god bruh
Isn’t it obvious what he would do though? Rian made the best he was given, the force awakens is the real problem. The force awakens introduced Luke would be on an island by himself for years. Of course he would act like the way he did in the last Jedi.
Episode 8 was honestly rough enough for me in regards to the story as a whole, I’ve honestly had a hard time enjoying Star Wars as much since then. I was excited to see Luke in Mando, but then had a moment of sadness remember what he becomes in 8.
I feel this. I actually left the cinemas after The Force Awakens excited for the future of Star Wars and since The Last Jedi, my excitement for Star Wars isn’t there like it used to be. I still enjoy watching the shows and learning new lore but it’s not the same in a weird way.
No matter what you think of the movie or even Rian Johnson, it’s always good to see Theory encouraging civil conversation between fans, rather than heated arguments.
A breath of fresh air honestly. We don't need toxicity on the internet.
Thanks Mr. Potter
Straight facts!!
at the end of the day its a fictional story. Not worth hurting people over movie opinions.
I disagree
I think we should attack each other personally instead of discussing and debating our ideas
"The Last Jedi challenged it's audience in ways that some weren't quite prepared for at the time."
YES!!!
I totally wasn't prepared for the 2nd to last film in a 9 movie saga, to have lore breaking scenes and inconsistent character arcs, and end up breaking the immersion we're supposed to feel when watching these films.
Someone give the writer of that article a gold star for their insight lol
Examples?
I would argue that the inconsistent arcs aren’t helped by a lacklustre story. Luke being so different isn’t that far fetched and isn’t the biggest issue, it’s that they didn’t tell a story that made us understand the change
@@bross7801 i fee like rian johnson destroyed luke skywalker beyond repair the rise of skywalker did just as much damage if not more than the last jedi i hated what rian johnson did in the last jedi i hated the force awakens and i seriously hate the rise of skywalker i hate to say this but to me disneys sequel trilogy is nothing but fan fiction its just fan fiction from begining to end and guess what john boyega is done with star wars you know what i feel the same way he does look how they treated him in each film
@@potatosensei1771 Well for starters, completely fucked Luke's character. He's hopeful, optimistic, and compassionate. After all, he saw good in the 2nd most evil guy in the galaxy, Darth Vader, but then goes on to attempt to kill his nephew who had some bad thoughts. That's the equivalent of saving a mass murderer but then going on to kill a guy who's planning to rob a bank. Finn goes from former stormtrooper to a complete joke (some of that can be blamed on the Force Awakens but TLJ makes it 10x worse). The movie hints at sexual tension between Rey and Kylo, the same Kylo who forcefully invaded her mind in the previous movie. Leia floats to survive in outer space...I get that Star Wars is fantastical and doesn't always make logical sense but like...there's a limit. The movie also adds hyperspace ramming, which while it looks cool, completely invalidates all space battles that have ever occurred and will ever occur in the galaxy since why has nobody thought of that before if it was possible. My question to you now is in what way did TLJ not mess up the canon LOL
@@bross7801 I agree the overall story arc was just missed opportunity after opportunity
I remember seeing it in the cinema and leaving so confused and to be honest quite angry with what he had done to Luke. It's about time Star Wars was written by people with actual passion for the source material.
Took me a day to let sink in what had happened after the cinema… wanted to be excited, but something inside felt wrong
Yeah it was like my first time in cinema where i went out and just was confused and thought : "what the fuck did I just watch ".
RJ has a smug and obvious "the fans can bite me" attitude. The first red flag was when he trolled SW fans on his Twitter account with a picture of him holding a small card that read YOUR SNOKE THEORY SUCKS. Talk about outright disrespect toward your audience. Then when he and Mark Hamill were doing a Q&A and Hamill said you have to think of the fans and RJ smugly disagreed with him that's when my attitude toward him went from disappointment to loathing. He should never be allowed to touch the SW brand again.
@@captaincool6785 I said the same thing walking out of the theater, i'll never forget it.
EXACT SAME
The sequels are a complete disaster because the directors and producers were too blind with financial greed that they lost 90% of what made Star Wars so good in the first place. They lost the ability to create story, adventure and focused too much on politics. The Star Wars community will not believe Disney or Lucas films ever again. It will take a miracle to get trust back.
This assessment is dead on with the films (episode 7-9) ! Couldn't agree more. However, I am enjoying the Star Wars disney plus TV series like the Mandalorian and Kenobi
"It's not hard to have a Civil dialogue but it's very easy to be rude"
Well said. Always appreciate you for these statements.
Yeah, immediately smug and condescending after pleading for civility…🙄
It’s nice for him to say this but he’s kinda rude when talking about sequels. Idk why he even bothers since he hates them
@@bross7801 I don't know. He's definitely outspoken but I've never taken him as being rude. Opinionated sure but not really rude.
@@scotthunt4206 He randomly DMed JJ Abrams telling him that he sucks lmao
@@gregdrake5069 Bro I don't spend every waking second on here so I'm not aware of every bit of gossip.
When Mark Hamill himself disagrees with how Rian handled Luke, you know Rian messed up with The Last Jedi.
I love Mark Hamill but he’s not Luke Skywalker he’s just the actor playing him, as an actor your goal is to just give the best performance you can and make a good movie and I think he gives the best performance he’s ever given and even though the movie isn’t perfect and has a couple problems I don’t think the movie itself is bad
@@lorenzohelm1470 who could understand a character better than the person tasked with bringing that character to life and doing it beautifully in 3 films?
@@lorenzohelm1470 thinking the guy who lived and breathed star wars doesn’t know more than a pretentious man baby is quite some take. Its a shit one but boy is it a take.
@@lorenzohelm1470 Except that Mark is Luke Skywalker. He brought that character to life and knows him inside out. Mark describes Luke as optimistic yet the Luke we got in Last Jedi was an angry old hermit. It’s not just about playing the character but also knowing the character as well.
It was definitely a red flag to the audience.
This interview proves that 5 years later RJ hasn't learned a damn thing...
My whole problem with last Jedi is that I always saw Luke as the hero that stood up evil and the quote, “I’m a jedi, like my father before me” always stood out to me because no matter what, he saw the good in his father and people. If we look at Han for example, Luke only saw his as scum basically. But when he comes back and helps Luke on the Death Star run, he sees there’s good in him. Luke all his life has had the experience of a loner and we see him rise from that to hero, to a prideful apprentice and the a failure again losing both his hand and saber. And he trains to become better, to learn his weaknesses and learns more about his father. He not only saves the galaxy but his father as well and sees the sacrifice he takes to save him.
And for me, Luke was that, a hero. I waited 10 years after I saw episode 3 as 5 year old for Star Wars on the big screen. To see my favorite characters again and my favorite hero and Jedi. When I learned he wasn’t even in the movie till the end I was upset and hopefully. My family didn’t go to the movies then and I had to wait longer to see TLJ. Everyone was telling it was bad but I didn’t believe them. But in that first scene when Luke tosses the lightsaber, I didn’t know what to do but laugh nervously. And mind you, I watched all 7 movies right before. It was like watching a parody of some kind. I think the main reason I was and am still unable to watch it again with a different lenses is that I see Luke as the staple of a hero that wears hope as a cape.
Rian Johnson will forever be known as the man who's split the Star Wars fan base down the middle
Isn't that also George Lucas himself who did that?
@@SirBigWater The prequels didn’t divide the fanbase anywhere NEAR as much as the sequels did.
@@SirBigWater better George than round head Rian Johnson
@@SirBigWater why do you think that????
Middle or cut out 10 % cause 90 % hate last jedi and rise of Skywalker
Sadly, between all of the controversy and the restructuring that Disney did to Star Wars, I have lost the love that I had for new Star Wars material.
Oh for fucks sake.
@@achaudhari101 nah man, i agree with him. And i dont consider myself part of "the fandom", im fine with the politics and people with purple hair and female roles ... but they made three shitty movies and used them as battering rams and solidly walled off the before-Disney period as an entirely different product. Im not interested in star wars anymore, and not because i outgrew it. Its because disney did no planning, painted themselves into a corner with superficial characters and bad bad arcs, and then weaponized elements of the base rather than focusing on making a good product.
@@achaudhari101 hey man, I'm glad that you still enjoy watching, even if it's not on the level. 🖖
@@michaelwerkov3438 That makes no sense either because now we have the likes of Filoni and Favreau to try and redeem the franchise with their content. That's not fair for those two that they have to be blacklisted over a shitty trilogy.
@@20th_century_specter Oh that can change over time for you when it's redeemed eventually.
The new Luke was one of the biggest letdowns of the sequels for me. I remember sitting in the theatre, watching Rey hand Luke his lightsaber, wondering what he’d say, what he’d do. And when he tossed it off the cliff, it was the strangest feeling. Everyone else was laughing, and I was just sitting there, processing what had just happened. That moment only lasted for a split second, and I started laughing too. But it felt wrong to do so. And as the film went on, I couldn’t believe what Disney had done to the character I had practically grown up with. I found myself crying when Luke and Leia finally reunited, not because it was such a well-written moment or anything, but because it didn’t feel real. Because it wasn’t the same Luke. It was a bitter, broken, sad old hermit who had forgotten everything he had learned and believed in, all because Disney wanted to put the focus on the new characters instead of continuing the story of the old ones. If I’m being honest, that was when I lost faith in episode 9, and when I realized the horrible, awful truth that Disney didn’t care. And it hurt even worse when I realized that not only was this story, imo, a corruption of Star Wars, but it wasn’t written with even an ounce of respect towards George Lucas, one of the greatest artists of all time.
Mike Scott, you've just put to words almost exactly how i felt. Other than I didn't giggle with that lightsaber toss. That toss set that same uneasy feeling in me, but I was too flabbergasted. I think I just sat there, dumbfounded. I kept trying to convince myself it was going to work out. And I left the film with my sons, realizing they'd never share the same feeling for Star Wars that I'd had.
Well said Milo, it was not only a corruption of Luke Skywalker but the whole Star Wars universe and all of it's history. Disney are now doing the same with the M-She-U and Ruin Johnson carries on making shallow, style-over-substance, pretentious garbage.
I think the real issue too was that we could all see it in Mark Hamills soul that he fundamentally did not like this film and where it took luke, you could see the pain in his eyes when he was trying to promote this movie. Ryan killed Luke and Mark is Luke and man I just feel for Mark.
N-No? He didn't get nor agree with the direction at first, but ultimately came to accept and think it was fine.
You're painting things with an interpretation. He has literally spoken out about his feelings on it, and expressed regret in how much it's been misunderstood.
When my wife and I left the theater after watching TLJ, we both said that we liked the movie. But when we sat down to dinner right after, all we did was talk about everything we hated about it. We both realized that we were so excited for the movie and we love Star Wars so much that, at first, we couldn't accept the fact that it was the first Star Wars movie that we...actually hated. It was very hard. And the more we talked about it, the more we hated it.
Same thing happened with me and my brother and his mate too. We sat at our flat thinking is it really bad and like you said the more we though of it the more we hated it. Truly was a sad time and still is feels like the empire won in real life.
@@FivesNZ also same, saw it with my brother and we left liking it and hyped and on the way home we started tearing it apart lol. We were like “wtf are they gonna do in the last one now”
@@HelloThere156 Same feeling man, walked out and was absolutely dumbstruck. Had a conversation with a friend, and called Palpatine. There was absolutely no other villains at the end of TLJ, and I concluded that for some miracle, they would have to bring back palpatine. There was no way they would introduce another villain so late in the trilogy and then have Ben be the villain but lose again to Rey?
TLJ is a shambles and I have no idea why Ruin Johnson is talking about this, its like he is trying to be relevant again and wants to bring back the divide.
It's actually annoying, for me anyway.
Yeah same. Went with my wife, a close friend and his brother. Already during the movie I got a strange feeling about some scenes but was still captivated by the cinematography (it IS beautiful to look at after all) and I guess my own love for the franchise. But as soon as we walked to the car that all slowly went away and we talked about more and more stuff we disliked. It's such a shame even after all this time. Same with Rise. It could have been so much more. It SHOULD have been more.
@@HelloThere156 Same dude, I walked out hyped because it is star wars. But when I started thinking about it, I realized it was terrible.
The one thing I wonder the most is if Rian Johnson at least communicated his story plan to JJ Abrams and the rest of Lucasfilm in advance. If he didn’t, then he set everyone up for failure. If he did, then my question is why didn’t leadership at Disney have critical discussions with people like Mark Hamill IN THE ROOM.
None of this sits right with me when you consider these were choices made by a multi-billion dollar company that had every option at their disposal both creatively and financially, and this is where we ended up.
Wokeness always supersedes creativity, originality or logic.
The only logical reason I can think of as to why it slid past ‘approval’ from people like Mark Hamill and others is that Disney simply didn’t care what they thought. You can see multiple interviews of Mark pretending like nothing was wrong and even some where he pointed out that he didn’t like how Luke was being portrayed. So they obviously didn’t care what he thought, which tells me they must have treated some other voices the same way. Money was more important than staying true to Star Wars.
I've wondered this exact same thing. When you start to think about everything that had to happen before this film got made, It really does boggle the mind how we ended up with this lackluster presentation.
Mark Hamill: Couldn't say a thing because everyone refused to listen
Disney/Lucasfilm: Literally didn't care. As long as it brings money, do whatever you want (and it did. With that IP and marketing, how wouldn't it?)
Rian Johnson: Some selfish self obsessed jerk who's only interest in Star Wars was using it as a stepping stone
And that's why the film was a disaster
By the way, if anyone's like "Why didn't Mark refuse the role anyway" you gotta know he'd already signed the contract, perhaps before Disney even bought Star Wars. The sequel trilogy was in the works for a while before George Lucas decided to sell to Disney, and some actors like Mark Hamil seemed like they were aware of that. Once Disney took control they scrapped everything George had prepared and gave us the sequel trilogy we know.
(I don't actually know if Mark Hamill actually signed a contract for a trilogy of films before Disney took over, and if that contract was valid after the franchise was sold, but it's a possibility)
TLJ had two goals: 1) It wanted to mock you for caring about what happened next after ep. 7. 2) It wanted to mock you for having nostalgic feelings for Star Wars movies you enjoyed when you were younger. And it went about this in such a spiteful way that it completely broke the 'fourth wall'.
Don't agree.
Let me be honest here: I had intentions to watch TLJ, but then grew hesitant and became disinterested. And it was a good thing as that spared me from watching a disgrace. Rian isn't respectful to both the lore and the fans (especially with his say of "Your Snoke theories suck"). I would never want him to be directing any of my sci fi stuff. Of course Darth KK is still among those responsible for the mess Star Wars is in as she has no respect to both EU and everything George Lucas made. It's due to this that I never went out to see Rise of Skywalker. Darth KK and Rian ruined Star Wars. Rian himself wanted to divide the fans. Rian as well as JJ needs to forever barred from working on anything Star Wars and perhaps other franchise too.
I may not have watched it, but seeing what others say of it, I would not go watch it. Me not seeing it saved me a little money and effort. Everything what Rian did and what TLJ is goes against what Star Wars is about. In all honesty, it's just high-budget fanfiction that Disney put out, not caring for the lore nor fully understand George's vision and lore.
5 years on, I say TLJ serves as an example of what to never do and it appears that some others feel like following what this did and they became divisive or was poorly received. And 5 years on, haven't watched it, never will I watch it. Looking back, the only thing I'm grateful of, and good thing, is that I never gone out to watch it in theaters. If anyone enjoys it, just go watch it; anyone is free to enjoy anything, which includes fanfiction if they had actual fun with it. Lucasfilms has a long road to recovery to make things right again, if ever (and Darth KK needs to go). And sure there are some good stuff Disney put out (the last season of Clone Wars for one example), but Luke's real journey lies with the EU, where he's a badass through and through.
I’ve said this before but I’m going to say it again, movies used to be about telling us(the audience) a story that transports us into that world and for a few brief moments we get to forget about our lives and live in the movie’s moment. Sadly ego has replaced the telling of a good story, and that’s what happen to the Star Wars sequel. A good story teller is one who is accepting of other’s opinions and ideas and story telling should be a collaborative effort, that is what George Lucas did when making the first 6 films. But Disney chose style over substance and the sequels were what we got; just so I make this clear to the RIan Johnson’s of the world. The Star Wars movies were and always will be about George Lucas’ vision and not what you can do to change it.
Wow. Never thought about it this way my friend. But it makes total sense. I think you are right with this. This is actually pretty sad if you think about it. George Lucas invented Star Wars to bring the people joy and excitement and not to divide them... :(
@@mrj1299 that is so true!
@@jennieb9000 sadly IT IS the issue with a Lot of beloves Franchises...
@@mrj1299 I wish we could return to that time when movies were about bringing joy and not about some else’s personal agendas.
I liked some of the last Jedi, it certainly had potential. Didn't mind the portrayal of Luke so much. Three things that ruined the movie for me was. 1) Luke attempting murder of his nephew 2) Running out of fuel was ridiculous 3) hyperdrive death kill on the Supremacy. These three things, imo set up some other weird stuff like the Canto Blight scenes (should've used this time to better set up TROS). Id say that a good 30 mins of that movie was wasted on that scene and could've been used as, lets say, an extended version of TROS
I think i’m more disappointed/upset that there’s no going back. The fact that there was no clear plan for the entire trilogy is baffling and crazy considering it’s Disney. I personally think 8 was directionless and the characters inconsistent with who they are. For me it really just seemed like the stereotypical big mindless explosions and lame modern humor at the expense of the characters. Ironic, Disney could save other franchises but not the sequel trilogy itself…
I feel exactly the same way. It blows my mind that they would spend such an obscene amount of money on SW and yet fuck it up so badly right out of the gate. All of the other stories they've done including Mandalorian is no where near as crucial as the final trilogy. This was the most important trilogy for them to get right, more than any other trilogy I can think of and they handed it off to a handful of people with. no. plan. How??? How does that happen?? I expected a few mistakes. But what we got was such a shitpile in so many ways.
Sorry edit: Oh don’t worry Kathleen Kennedy is on her way……. Bob Chapec is trying to get her the fuck out and Favreau and Faloney will will head Lucas films everything will be Redcon in the Asoka trailer in the Asoka show and it’s going to retcon those shitty fucking trilogies and they’re no longer gonna be fucking canon and I don’t have to look at Kylo and his stupid face
Nah, I feel latest when disney is selling the Brand the sequel trilogy will be an Alternate Universe... Or time travel will prevent it from Happening
@@jjochems Not only a handful of people. That could have worked. But everchanging who is on the Team??? There was no plan..
They had a plan, it was called George Lucas' story notes but they decided to scrap it because "Prequels bad! We need to make money!"
As a huge fan of Luke's character in legends. I have never been more disappointed in the development of a character. Luke was an inspiration for people, that no matter how much the odds are stacked against you there is always a way though if you keep working and fighting for what you believe in. Luke's character in Episode 8 was not that, he was someone who gave up when the odds were stacked against him and somehow was redeemed by one action at the end? The redemption story was already done with Anakin. JOHNSON tried to do a redemption story of Luke in 1 episode, it just doesn't work. It too 6 movies to fully tell Anakin's redemption story.
Star Wars has been my favorite movie franchise for as long as I can remember. Grew up with the prequels but always loved the original.
When it was announced that they were making a new trilogy I was beyond hyped. It’s hard to put into words but I’m sure everyone remembers the excitement. Then the force awakens comes out and while there is a lot to say about that movie it didn’t slow down the hype at all at the time.
Then the last Jedi came out, again beyond excited. I remember walking out of that theater deflated. I wasn’t mad, wasn’t upset (at the time) I just remember all that hype and excitement just disappeared. After that I skipped Rogue one, Solo, and Rise of Skywalker. I eventually saw some of them. But to me the biggest crime of The Last Jedi was killing my enthusiasm.
Totally agree - this was the moment I felt that Star Wars had ceased to be what it always was.
@@keithbowen9561 Really!? How do you not feel ashamed after the The Force Awakens? Here is our introduction to Poe: "Who talks first, you talk first or I talk". I can't think of a worse way to start a movie by adding the cringiest Marvel line that defined the series. They literally do the exact same thing in A New Hope. Blow up a deathstar. We don't have any world or character progression at all. How is that a good movie? They kill off Han like nothing. The dumbest storyline, map to skywalker. What an absolute joke.
To this very day, It still doesn't change the fact that they totally tarnished Luke's character and all of his accomplishments in the original trilogy, same thing goes for Han and Leia.
Times change. Shit happens.
Imagine watching 3 movies about Yoda becoming a Jedi and creating the Jedi Order. And then the Prequel Trilogy happens.
“oh my god, they ruined the jedi order! And Yoda being all wrong and everything”
I say this because the Jedi being wrong about lots of things was part of the prequel trilogy. It wasn’t simply Palpatine being smart. This is literally mentioned by Yoda in both movies and books
@@onefateextra nah dude. Its not like that at all. They had one more chance to do a proper wind down of character arcs with the original actors and properly build up new ones. And rather than do it well, they did it like a shitty comic book arc except forgot that unlike superheroes, these guys dont come back from the dead every time someone writes a shitty ministory.
There was zero thought put in to the sequel trilogy. None. It was absolutely incoherent and inconsistent even with itself.
No amount of backpedaling or rationalization will do anything to make them acceptable.
@@onefateextra nah dude. Its not like that at all. They had one more chance to do a proper wind down of character arcs with the original actors and properly build up new ones. And rather than do it well, they did it like a shitty comic book arc except forgot that unlike superheroes, these guys dont come back from the dead every time someone writes a shitty ministory.
There was zero thought put in to the sequel trilogy. None. It was absolutely incoherent and inconsistent even with itself.
No amount of backpedaling or rationalization will do anything to make them acceptable.
@@onefateextra You can say that, but it's still different. Heroes transitioning from a time of peace to a time of war when they're not the glorious characters they were is one thing, but heroes transitioning from times of war, restoring peace only to transition back to war and ruin everything they'd gone through only 40 years ago? That's ridiculous.
The problem with the sequel trilogy is that it makes all the other trilogies pointless. It doesn't matter that the jedi and the republic fell. It doesn't matter that the rebellion restored the republic again and the jedi were restored. With the push of a button, with one misunderstanding, it was all gone again. Now that's just stupid.
@@michaelwerkov3438 That's true. I mean I hate how inconsistent and incoherent the trilogy is with the rest of the saga, but it doesn't even fit as one whole trilogy. It's a complete mess.
If Rian Johnson wanted to make new Star Wars lore about Broom Boy, he could've went and did that without crapping all over the Skywalker Legacy.
His entire goal was to destroy the Skywalker Legacy and all lore that came before him.
He not only did Luke Skywalker wrong, but also did Snoke, Phasma and Ackbar wrong. Those characters were all wasted. No reason to bring in Dern when Ackbar should have taken on that role.
He also ignored the novels that came before the movies that were supposed to be setting up the story. Completely ignored all lore.
The fact Johnson still hasn't accepted reality, and still denies what he did, shows what an immature person he is.
Broom boy is only an example of Luke’s main character arc. He realizes that his hero myth and inspiration is more important that what he can give on the battlefield. We see his myth in action mere minutes after the Crait scene as kids are reenacting the battle. In both of my viewings I never once thought that the Broom boy was setting up for his own movie.
This interview only shows me that nobody loves Rian Johnson more than Rian Johnson himself.
@@46sn29 He's only saying that he's proud of his work. That takes guts when millions of people are misunderstanding and hating it
I forgot Phasma was a thing 🤣. Come to think of it, what was Finn's story exactly?
@@potatosensei1771 That takes guts? Or that's what he wanted all along? Because he was very specific on camera that that's the type of movie he wanted to make: 50% of the audience loving it, 50% of the audience hating it.
At least Jon and Dave Filoni did Luke justice in Mandalorian. That was the Luke we all remember and wanted to see in the sequels.
Absolutely!
I think it takes more than "ideas and perspectives" to be set apart from an amateur writer, and a great writer. Clearly I don't deny the frailness and the imperfections of our humanity, or Luke's for that matter. I also understands what he means by the "myth" of portrayed characters. But I think a great writer needs to understand timeline, continuity, consistency, development and context. Sure, if Luke were facing these challenges on his way to becoming a Jedi Master (I'm not implying that being a JM means you're perfect either) - perhaps with his training with Yoda, or some other form in the missing timeline between TESB and ROTJ, then sure, it would make more sense.
While Rian's points are valid to some degree, I believe there's a time and place to put it, and it's certain not in this trilogy. I think he was more fixated about delivering his point and his agenda, than like what you said, continuing the legacy of somebody else's masterpiece and progressing from it. Perhaps, there's a sense of self-superiority in Rian that feels the need to redo somebody else's work or to prove himself which made this whole trilogy bad for me. I don't know where it started and I have no idea where it's going. It's just a trilogy of somebody's vision, rather than a progression from somebody else's story.
I quote the famous words of Obi-Wan: Your need to prove yourself, is the reason why you will always be a Padawan.
For me The Last Jedi, and especially the treatment of Luke's story, felt like a forced attempt to subvert expectations and go against the common feelings about Luke, other legacy characters, as well as the new characters and story. I get that an actors opinions about their character isn't always the best base but with Luke, I agree with Mark Hamill. If it was Harrison Ford with Han Solo that's different I think many of us would agree we're glad Ford didn't get what he wanted with Han dying in the Original Trilogy. However with Mark Hamill, he loves his character Luke, has shown so much love for the fandom, to the point that I do feel he best understands his character Luke, and how he really would've acted.
I respect the opinions of others but for me the Last Jedi was the nail in the coffin that killed the Sequel trilogy for me. The Force Awakens was great, played it a little to safe by copying a lot of story points from the original trilogy, but then I feel like because of that Disney and Rian Johnson felt encouraged to do the opposite and do the opposite approach. That of course then put the Rise of Skywalker in a difficult position. Now they felt they had to bandaid some of the things many hated of the Last Jedi which in turn made the Rise of Skywalker even worse.
they definitely subverted expectations
Subverting expectations has become expected and predictable of Hollywood.
@@starwarsjoey228 They also subverted quality
yeah that's Rian Johnsons approach, in his words. Subverting expectations and circumventing the fanbase for the sake of doing it.
@@ganeshatx Ruin Johnson is on record saying that what he thinks makes a great film is if half the audience absolutely hates it.
I just watched TLJ just to analyze Luke again and for me I still can't get over the Luke that was presented before us. Luke imo is supposed to embody a new age of Jedi who are more open minded and believe in the light in all beings. Even if he saw hate in Ben Solos mind he should have had a more justifiable reaction then kill his nephew. Just doesn't add up in relation to EP.6 Luke. Also 0% chance Rey should have beat Luke in that Duel on the island even if it's Saber vs Staff.
I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Specially the last part regarding the duel. Let’s be honest Disney is being run by a bunch of woke ppl. Rey was created to be a Mary Poppins, she never lost at anything, she knew how to do things without training. Not only did she defeat the grand master Luke in a duel but she also defeated Kylo Ren, a dark side user who was trained by Luke had years of experience with a lightsaber. The whole trilogy is just trash. I really hope they make it legends. A different timeline, or a what if like Marvel did.
@@josembcis5 Yeah the sequels did a poor job of giving characters accurate power discrepancies. Kylo has trained 20 years with Luke Skywalker and Snoke and should be by far better then Rey in both Saber combat and connection to the force. And the fact Finn was able to even block a single one of Kylos attack is disgraceful. That be like us walking into the ring with prime Mike Tyson and lasting a round. Kylo should have been able to snap his neck instantly. And yeah I cringe everytime I see that Rey vs Luke scene. Luke is the most powerful being in the Galaxy even if he is a bit rusty there isn't an excuse to lose to an untrained force user.
Luke was old that’s why he lost vs Rey
The whole plan for George was that Anakin was the chosen one to destroy the Sith AND the Jedi, and then Luke, Anakin's son, would rebuild the Jedi order as they are supposed to be, but then the sequels ruined all that
@@l750z_6 Age doesn't matter that much. Look at Yoda, Dooku, Sidious etc. Some of the most powerful force users are old.
Saw the tweet from empire about posting this article and somehow all the most liked tweets were pro TLJ. I am honestly curious and open for discussion why people like the sequels. I don’t get how you watch those sequel movies and think they positively helped George’s story. If anything they ruined it imo
I liked the sequels. The reason why I didn't mind the story of the ST, was mainly because the story of the 2 trilogies before the ST wasn't that good to begin with. Star Wars for me has always been a fun action filled sci-fi adventure, with lightsabers, the force etc. The ST did just fine in these categories for me. I never really cared about the story too much and if I did, I wouldn't call SW my favorite franchise...
@Cash 55 right so you're not a Star Wars fan got it
That's just the new generation.
Its insane to think 5 years ago we were expecting this movie to be amazing and that Star Wars would be here to stay just as amazing as it once was
I appreciate the opportunity to discuss and share our thoughts on this. The absolute egotism on display here from Rian Johnson is astounding. He was given a unique opportunity to add to one of the greatest stories of our time that is passionately loved by millions. I feel he owed us, the fans, the community, more of the story we love, not trying to make his mark by creating something divisive to appease his sensibilities. Irvin Kershner didn't go into making an empire, hoping that some people hate so people would continue to talk about his movie. He made something great by fundamentally understanding his characters, their world and how his movie fit into a larger story... Rian's movie is anathema to me, a lifelong fan, and should be removed from the Star Wars story. May the force be with Dave John and us all.
You are totally right. Star Wars should be about continuing the Story of the beloved charachters and stay faithful to them.
I love Rian Johnson, and I love The Last Jedi!
They took a lot of new things, and put it in to the Star Wars univers, and it payed of very well. I liked the way they showed how the greatest hero can be hit by fear and depression, and how he is dealing with it in his shame of responsibility for Kylo and all the downfall of the jedies. Luke became a more interesting character for me, because they showed his human vulnerability, and Johnson gave us an insight of how a man you symbolize as hope and greatness also can be let bye dark, self hating, thoughts, and feeling of psychological pain. THIS IS HUMAN NATURE. Everyone can reach a point where you are looking into the fear, and even though situiations in periods of time can feel dark and painfull, the light and hope can crack through the darkness. Rey are showing him that light, and Yoda is telling him, that we all and need to learn from our failures, and then in the end Luke takes action and see how small he is comparing to all the life and all the past- and future jedis of the univers. Luke is showing his last strengths besides his vulnerability and overcomed his ego and his fear, and that makes him a greater human and hero for me!
They also did a good job of referencing Darth Sidious and the blind spots of the Jedis’ control of the parliament , which is something you as a fan have reflected on a lot as we can learn why Anakin became evil and didn't trust the Jedi order as they didn't care to acknowledge his feelings or weakness; which was the feelings of loss, which he experienced through the loss of his mother and further came to know bye the developing fear of loosing Padme.
That's why I think it's fantastic how Rian Johnson gets to focused and discuss what is evil and what is good throughout the movie, as both things have understandings behind them.
Many good things were also shown through the animals in the movie which I loved.
And if I should talk about our big main character Rey, which I think became a cooler character for me, since she could be nobody and still have so many powers in the force. Big heroes can come from anywhere, and it doesn't have to be the past or a special elitist, family background that dictates that. This is just to mention some of the good things that I can see about The Last Jedi.
Not to mention how the characters Poe, Finn, Rose and even Leia all took part in character development which was really entertaining to see and added more nuances to our main characters and their relationships with each other and growing as mindful and great persons, you can relate to as fan. Loved it.
I hope there will be more Star Wars movies from Johnson soon! I can understand why they wanted to give him a new triology :-D
thank you
I just wish Lucas had never sold out to Disney. But I totally understand him wanting to be with family.
I feel like Rian just went along with whatever Disney wanted him to do and also feel that he completely ignored the entire storyline that had been built up
There are a lot of us that feel that way too
This is why when you create something whether it is art, books, or movies. You find a way to protect your legacy even after you die. Big corporations will turn your legacy into garbage.
Rian did what he did to make himself feel better
You are too kind. He destroyed the Star Wars universe to be smug about it.
@@grega7323 agree. I just hope Faverau and Filoni can keep up what good they've been doing lately.
I will never get over the feeling of disappointment when I was driving home from watching The Last Jedi. It made me question my love for Star Wars.
Haha, me neither. I still remember the feelings I had watching that movie too. "This can't be real..."
I was also like "what have i done?"
I've never felt pain and realisation set in like that when leaving a cinema before. Me and my mates walked back to the car, didn't say anything and then just all looked at eachother and said wtf we we just witness
N u know, the luke part was ALMOST ok. I actualy saw luke about to strike ben in the same light as when he almost killed vader. Both times it was instinct. Unfortunetly the writers didnt show us what ben saw and that the rest was how it was.
When I left I felt like there was a big chunk of the movie that I somehow missed by inadvertently falling asleep but nope. The whole Canto Bight nonsense that lead to nothing should've scrapped for more Luke and Rey scenes
He swung at the ball. He even made contact with the ball… but it went foul. He then struck out
Personally, I feel that if the last Jedi wasn’t a “Star Wars “ film, it would have been better received by everyone. Thoughts?
Mark Hamill knew the character in TLJ wasn't the real Luke Skywalker. We, the fans, knew it wasn't. I suspect Rian Johnson also knew, but he did it anyway.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just stated here. I really liked how JJ set things up with Force Awakens but then Rian came along and disregarded the feelings of fans and just did whatever he wanted with TLJ. I remember being sooooo excited for The Last Jedi. It was probably the most anticipated thing for me ever. Was going to see Luke back in action and find out who Snoke and Rey really were 😀 But then after seeing it I felt heartbroken and so disappointed :( For me, the sequel trilogy isn't canon and never will be. I just wished they had planned it out better from the start.
I remember how they hyped Rian up. They kept saying how much of a fan he really was and how he completely understood George's vision.... And for a moment, in the first 5 minutes of the film, it almost looked like all of that wasn't a lie. In the end, the film was so bad that I went back home and all the crap that happened had still not set in. I was still insisting there was no way Snoke actually died. I mean, who does that? lol
@@mar_speedman I was in shock too for a couple days afterwards. Couldn't even focus lol
I too was super excited for 8. I do not remember my excitement for 7 unfortunately but the hype for TLJ was unreal, and unfortunately we got what we got. I still really love 7 though. I refuse to let the continuation ruin my enjoyment and love for that movie
@@zeylo4220 I really love Force Awakens as well. I'll have to try not to lump it in with sequel trilogy hate. I thought 7 was such a great jump off point for the new trilogy. The possibilities were endless. With Legends and Clone Wars lore there was so much to pull from. If they had just thought everything out better. Oh well...least we still have the Mandalorian :)
@@b_rad5651 yeah man I personally feel like now that the whole ST is out, everyone lumps the movies together and hates them all the same even though 7 was actually really loved leading up to 8, which were 2 very long years. Maybe I'm biased due to my personal attachment to the film but I feel like 7 is not to blame for how things turned out. As you said, it was a really nice set up and what went down after that is out of the movies control. I just see it as its own thing and view it the same way I have back then, without knowing what happens next. It's easy for me to do so because it pretty much is a solo film, and the continuation which we have gotten isn't what was meant to happen
LUKE WOULD NEVER GIVE UP
Legit one of the most angry moments of my life was leaving that theater for the first time
Yuuuup SAME
Thank you for your analysis of Rian's interview. Like you I truly believe Johnson's intent was to destroy Luke's character growth and place in as Mark Hamill points out "Jake Skywalker". While I initially enjoyed grumpy Luke, I soon realized that this was not the Luke we knew and loved. Rian Johnson knew what he was doing. He wanted to sow chaos and divide and he achieved his goal.
I don’t necessarily think that was the intent. There’s no way Rian wanted the majority of the fandom to hate his guts, and he had to have known that would happen if he went in that direction with Luke’s character.
he's an idiot he wanted to destroy Luke's character but he thought we'd thank him for it. Wed thank him for bringing us more diverse replacements that are better than luke ever was. And then they straight up take the man's name to.
That was his intent. 💯%. That's why anything Rian Johnson has done since I avoid like the plague. I was initially kind to TLJ. Then I realized what the film and the sequel trilogy really was about. And then I got very pissed. I am only being civil because Star Wars Theory requested or I would tell what I truly think of Rian Johnson and TLJ. And they are not kind, and never will be.
I was okay with Luke in the story, but having him fart himself to death at the end was unforgivable. He should have been the main protagonist in the ninth movie, allowing for character growth, training Rey instead of fake looking CGI Leia, who had never demonstrated any Jedi training (and on top of that had to be made to be more powerful than Luke. FU KK!!!). And who says you couldn't have ten movies. Imagine what a scene it would have been at the end of TLJ if you had Luke lifting his X-Wing out of the water and coming after Ben Solo. It would leave you with something to look forward to. A NEW HOPE!!! Then you could kill Luke off at the end of a ninth movie in some heroic fashion, or in a similar way to Kenobi.
In episode 9 they should have, at the very least, force ghosted him and had him ceaselessly haunting Kylo in a comedic fashion in every room he went, just like the Joker(Mark Hamil) did to Batman in his dreams. It would have made his final words "See you around kid." actually mean something.
@@AussieAmigan In the original script by Colin Trevorrow's Episode IX Duel of the Fates, a force ghost Luke haunts Kylo through the movie (and in his final fight with a fully trained Rey at Mortis, black suited as Luke in Return of the Jedi and armed with a doble bladed light saber). I think that was implicit in Rian Johnson's line "see you around kid". But KK rejected Trevorrow's script and brought again JJ, who had no idea what to do with the end of the saga.
Seeing my childhood hero go from optimistic hero, to sad-sack coward, with no clear-through on how he got there was a knife to the heart. It still hurts. It seemed the director not only didn't understand Star Wars, but didn't like it at all, and seemed to delight in destroying this icon of our youth. This current trend in pop-culture is horrible and I am beyond tired of it.
Oh my God grow up. Jesus christ this is pathetic. You're so entitled its ridiculous.
RJ didn't understand, and he played right into Darth Kennedy's hands, someone who has admitted to HATING George's Star Wars and wanting to tear it down and remake it the way she thinks it should be--all about powerful, bestest-ever whamen and idiotic men. Oh...and we must make the black guy the janitor. What a racist, sexist c-word. (As a woman, I have never called any other female that word, but Darth Kennedy deserves it. She makes Palpatine look like a girl scout.
@@Jedi_Mistress You're not healthy sweetheart. Please seek help.
@@gregdrake5069 She’s just fine the way she is
It's an alternate universe. There's the GL Star Wars and this CW version.
I would love to see a fan series based on George’s plan for the sequel trilogy.
It'd be dull with appalling dialogue and a myriad of characters/ships only there to sell toys
I still can't believe that they got the whole gang back but didn't even give them one moment all together. And with Carrie gone we will never get that chance.
I sincerely don't understand how of all things they didn't give us atleast one moment of Han, Leila, Luke, C3po, chewie, R2D2 all together.
Like how does that not happen!!!!???
I think a lot of the civil discussion always avoids the narrative from Kathleen Kennedy that she wanted to rewrite and destroy the legacy of Luke and Han. She hated that fans looked up to those characters and she wanted to replace them with Ray. The intent from KK is the epicenter of this problem. She went out and got people that supported her narrative in one way or another to make it a reality. I agree that the actresses and actors where just doing their jobs and aren’t to blame for this. But we won’t be able to get over this until we acknowledge that this discourse was intentionally created.
When TLJ ended my initial feeling/expression was just confusion. I didn’t walk away excited or satisfied just confused. Luke’s portrayal was so weird at first but as people were breaking it down like you did Theory, I felt better about how I saw TLJ. Rian seriously wanted to make Star Wars fans feel stupid for liking Star Wars. Luke was just so depressed and cranky.
My was disappointment and urgency. I was holding trip to toilet for half of movie hoping that it soon will start to be good.
I was 8 years old seeing A New Hope for the first time in 1977. After that I lived in many states and countries while having the OT and the ST be a big part of my friendships with people. Like many of the people I may talk to on here, we all could talk and Star Wars' themes, moments, excitement and legacy, would be a shared experience we all would have TOGETHER. The more rian johnson speaks about Star Wars, the clearer it becomes that it meant something very different to him than what it was to almost every Star Wars fan i have ever met in all those states and countries. It was a thrill and even a comfort speaking with friend in Oklahoma and a few years later a friend in Germany and having the same excitement and shared love for Star Wars in those 2 conversations. A real bonding experience. Its just is very unfortunate that he received a green light to direct as opposed to someone who understood those themes we all shared. Sad. And the Star Wars universe and fanbase are worse off because of it.
Rey calling herself a Skywalker is like Luke calling himself a kenobi because he didn’t like Vader. If Rey was raised by luke or leia, then it would be okay.
I remember SWT did a video with that one SW writer that explained that Luke saw the future of Ben Solo killing Han/many others and that that's why he had that fleeting moment when igniting his saber, I loved that reasoning.
Matthew Stover, writer of revenge of the Sith novel. He is brilliant and he did a great job trying to explain to me why Luke would do that.
@@StarWarsTheory one of my favorite parts of revenge of the sith novel is that Kit Fisto got to last most of the fight rather than go out after blocking a few strikes.
Thank you. You eloquently said what I’ve been saying. Luke NEVER would’ve thought about trying to kill Ben. He was probably the definition of optimism after trying to save his father.
If Luke had a premonition of what Ben would become, yes he might try and kill him. Remember how Luke flipped when he thought about the mere possibility of Vader turning Leia to the dark? He had it in him. It was not as uncharacteristic as you might think.
@@ramsquatch Agreed. People keep acting like Luke made a conscious decision which is not accurate, it clearly shows it as a snap reflex based on a vision. The moment he regains clarity it’s over.
@@ramsquatch What exactly did Ben become? All we saw with Kylo Ren was a tantrum throwing, emo manchild. He never was intimidating and he got his butt kicked in his first outing by a girl who picked up a lightsaber for the first time. Stop shilling for Disney and their trash product.
@@TehZach1993 I guess stabbing one’s Dad in the chest and letting him fall to his death is NBD. Certainly nothing that would upset Luke.
@@PKryik there’s also a bit of Rashoman effect. Luke almost killed him, and in his memory decided not to. Ben/Kylo point of view was that he was actually trying to kill him.
I want to see the unedited version of this video lol I feel like each time it is cut, there's some true comments from you and I love it haha
I wish Disney would put someone else in charge of Star Wars and release an announcement saying " Episode 7,8 and 9 were just a fever dream. It never happened "
That's my dream
The fact he calls it ”myth” and not “fictional reality” Really shows how truly disconnected a lot of these people are.
Myths are allegorical narratives. Star Wars is an allegorical narrative, therefore…
@@pt2k645 it’s a fairytale. It’s a story.
@@matthewshroba1511 What do you think a myth is?
@@pt2k645 it is a type of story.
@@matthewshroba1511 Yeah, and…? That’s what Star Wars is. It’s a story conceived by George Lucas as a way to teach older kids and younger teens about good vs evil, selflessness vs selfishness, light vs dark. Like a myth.
I dunno dafuq a “fictional reality” is other than an oxymoron. Is it like a delusional state?
My big problem with 8 (aside from what it did to Luke's character in my eyes) is that every plot point is completely dismissed in the middle of the story so ep 9 had nothing to go on
At 55 I TOTALLY relate to Luke's behavior in the last Jedi! I was a kid in 1977 when I saw Star Wars and I related to Luke then. I relate to this stage of Luke's life now. After all the loss he experienced his behavior is totally consistent. Fans, especially younger fans don't want to see this much reality in their hero figures. Every person my age that knows Stsr wars can relate to how Luke acts in this film.
That's how I saw it, a broken man making broken decisions.
@@veganrican606 Exactly! Honestly, you have to live past your prime to truly understand this level of struggle. Most hero's journey stories don't deal with the cost and sacrifice the hero has to make to do the right thing. Most people would never make the sacrifice if they truly knew the cost to their souls. Back in Episode 5 Luke tells Yoda that he's not afraid. Yoda solemnly tells him "You will be", so prophetic. Great story arc and writing. Frankly, TLJ exceeded my expectations.
Past your prime? Bruh, you are just barely past the halfway mark! You haven't even hit your prime in wisdom yet! That's probably what 71ish? You GOOOOOOD still!!I
What lost?
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495 Well you have to live long enough to understand past mistakes and how they can freeze you.
I think that trying to put a spin on Luke Skywalker and turning him into what he became in these movies (the hermit who tried to kill his nephew and closed himself off from the force) is actually an idea that could work. The problem is that it seems the directors of the sequel trilogy wanted to take a shortcut. When Anakin fell to the dark side, we had 2 movies to see that (plus clone wars because I think Ahsoka leaving had a lot to do with his fall). It was very rushed to make Luke suddenly be this person which was COMPLETELY averse to the character in the original trilogy, who redeemed Darth Vader, the most hated man in the galaxy. Trying to skip over the fall of Luke and just showing it through flashbacks is in my opinion, very lazy, and even to a casual fan is not how you tell a story. I know these opinions have been said time and again but I just wanted to put a bit of a twist on it and say that turning Luke into the hermit is not in itself unfaithful, but skipping over his fall is extremely careless and is the reason why I don't consider the 8th and 9th movie to be canon. (Also appreciate you SW Theory, you're forever GOATed and its awesome that you took extra care to make sure we're being respectful in the comments)
The problem to me wasn't Luke's story arc, but his execution of said arc and everything else. I'll try to be "short"
1. When Luke tossed the lightsaber aside, I loved it. I think it was one of his only good twists in the movie.
2. He completely cut Luke's response to Hans death short, we barely see him process it meaningfully. Meanwhile we get to see him "process" his blue milk, literally milking the goddamn alien and then drinking it "meaningfully" right to Rey/the audiences face. That should tell you enough.
3. His whole side plot with Finn and Rose didn't accomplish anything. They made a whole deal about love and freeing some animals for a few hours-while leaving behind child slaves.
4. Leia dying so early would have been impactful, then he ruined it by making her fly through space in the worst cgi possible.
5. Three lessons, only gives 2 and never mentions a 3rd. (Deleted scene apparently, but that's a weak excuse)
Final: In the end, I think Rian Johnson is just being stubborn, because he knows the internet will only tear him apart further. And maybe he can still get his trilogy. Rian Johnson tried so hard subverting expections, that he forgot to make a good movie.
I suppose I can thank him for one thing, he broke the trance Disney was holding me under, and woke me up. I haven't seen a star wars movie in theaters since. Don't regret it.
If you enjoyed Last Jedi, I'm happy for you. Because I genuinely can't. There is a lot I'm not bringing up here, but this is just a RUclips comment that's gone too long already, and too much revisiting the last Jedi for me.
Your facial expression in that thumbnail is priceless.
I'm just going to be blunt about this: Rian is a total hack. He's saying he's so proud of his portrayal of Luke, yet Mark Hamil, you know, Luke Skywalker, was his biggest critic.
I remember when TLJ first came out I was so excited to watch it given that back then Sequel trilogy was at the peak of hype at the time. However, I remember leaving the theatre feeling so underwhelmed and confused like this is the only movie that make me feel this way out of the original and prequel trilogy. I was also disappointed that they disregarded the significance of Luke’s green lightsaber
He's not a bad director I like alot of his work, just didn't like his star wars movie.
Agreed.
He’s okay. But the second he touches a script the project is dead. He can’t write anything without poisoning it.
He may be a good director but after how badly he did with Star Wars I can't stomach watching anyting by him I tried knives out but was too pissed off after 10 minutes and shut it off
@@Daeduluus lol man-child
@@hanshotlast Brick and Looper were not good. TLJ was not good. Knives Out was OK but also not nearly as clever as I’m sure Rian thinks it is
I agree, that we needed to be convinced for this sudden change of character. But if you watch the behind the scenes doc, he literally had 200 scenes made up before script. He envisioned scenes before he wrote the script. That’s why there’s so many scene jumps and plot holes. He wanted the shot instead of the story. I think the biggest issue is do to the whole build up of TLJ and rian Johnson being an up and coming director at the time, I had an all time standard set for this movie. If he was the director instead of the writer, movie would have been one of the best.
It’s so good to hear you say what a lot thinks. Thanks!
In my opinion, good movies make you leave the theater feeling better than when you walked in. When I watch ROTJ, I see a son who would take his life because he sees good in his father, even though Vader was basically the second most evil person in the galaxy at this point. He had unconditional love for his father and was willing to die to prove it. I watch this movie and I feel hope.
When I watch TLJ it’s the exact opposite. Luke is a very important character for me. Not just for his heroics, but his love for his family. Seeing this beloved character with a crazed look on his face ready to murder his nephew… it doesn’t compute for me. There’s no coming back from an action like that. That alone was enough to ruin it for me. Then Luke not even going to Crait , mocking Kylo in his “heroic moment”, not trying to break through to him or show him compassion. Then he dies like a fart in the wind. It’s depressing. No disrespect to those who enjoy the sequels, I’m glad you do. But it’s not my Luke. The closest thing to the character I know and love is Luke in Mando season 2.
I had fun watching the sequels in theaters. I never watched them again afterwards. That tells me all that I need to know. To me, they are fine as individual films, but i don’t think they add much to the world of Star Wars like they had the opportunity to.
I’ve had an inkling to go back and watch the last Jedi the last few days cause it’s visually stunning but then I remember how bad it conflicts with the rest of the saga and it only leads to worse thing with ROS….
It ruined the whole saga ..seriously I used to watch lucas starwars at least once a year ..havnt watched it since Johnson's piece of 💩film
@@mccleandazza4618 nothing is ruined unless you ruin it for yourself
@@everettjohnson9374 no .....he ruined it
@@everettjohnson9374 what kind of logic is that???
This still hurts just as much a year later and it’s been 5 years since I’ve been excited about a Star Wars film.
agreed
You’re the best!! Cannot bring myself to rewatch the TLJ.
I felt like I saw the reasoning behind it and enjoyed it when the movie came out overall, but the more time has passed the more I feel I am changing my mind, especially in light of episode 9. I read all the Legends books so I was able to appreciate the difference in Luke's character arc at the time and not feel cheated, but realizing most people haven't makes me feel the disappointment on their behalf. Ultimately it felt like someone who got high with a bunch of their friends and had a "deep" thought of what if Luke didn't become the powerful myth everyone has assumed he would be since the 80s, but should never have actually happened on screen.
The characters changed from the TFA. Poe went from the best pilot in the resistance to a complete idiot that was responsible for 80% of the deaths in the movie. Luke was even more hermit than Obi-Wan. Kylo Ren became a love sick puppy. Rey went from hating Kylo to wanting to team up with him in like 3 days.
Not shocking he said this considering how little knowledge he has
I saw TLJ opening night. I couldn't believe it. I went and saw it again and my fears from the first viewing were confirmed.
What a strange time to be a star wars fan.
The Thrawn Trilogy will always be my episodes 7,8 & 9, but it is interesting to hear RJ talk about his thought process when making TLJ (despite it being terrible imo). Thank you for covering this.
You and I want the exact same things for our channels: For everyone in the star wars fandom to voice their opinions without being hurtful, mean, etc.
👊
I’ll just say this… His rant about “throwing away the past” is very telling, not just for the Star Wars franchise under Darth Kennedy, but as our society today. People want to destroy or throw away the ideals, history, etc., of the past while ignoring the famous quote that says “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana
Churchill repeated this but slightly different by saying, “Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it”. Johnson saying what he did in this interview is very telling as to where their mentality is and it honestly makes me sad.
Yes, it's their excuse for not wanting to learn the lore and create generic easy to write stuff instead
Does anyone actually know what KK did to make it to such a high position of power. She was a producer for many Speilberg films but what exactly did her role entail. I've seen behind the scenes stuff from a lot of movies she's worked on but I still don't get what her job is. Does she sign checks, coordinate stuff or what exactly led to Lucas putting her in charge
I love seeing the OG intro!
I’ve really enjoyed hearing everyone’s thoughts on this 👍🏼
Love you soooo much theory! You make loving Star Wars so much fun 🤩
Yes he does
I would have loved to see a flawed Luke. The master who has flaws is a great character option with plenty to work with. The character we got was just not Luke, and there is no two ways around it.
Thats what many Sequel fans don't seem to understand about our argument; most of us don't think that Luke should be a perfect man. The vast majority of people were hyped to see grumpy Luke in the TLJ trailer. We were so curious as to what he would be so grumpy about! Many assumed that he must have found out a dark secret about the Jedi Order, or that perhaps he was in the process of reforming the Order, but he was having some trouble finding the missing piece to this conundrum. Its understandable that he would become a bit disillusioned in the process. At worst, I could see Luke failing as a teacher during his first attempt at rebuilding the Jedi.
But what we got instead was a man who turned his back on the Force itself, and a man who essentially betrayed his family in multiple ways. He failed as a family man, a monk, and a teacher.
Giving us a slightly jaded Luke is not the problem, its that Rian Johnson didn't know when to stop.
What upset me the most about the whole Disney buying Lucasfilm debacle is the fact that they completely disregarded what George had in mind regarding the sequel trilogy AND paid no attention to the countless legends material that we have and created something that has nothing to do with the previous Star Wars storyline. On top of all that they decided to recreate the timeline to reflect on THEIR sorry excuse for a trilogy. I think most every Star Wars fan that read the original Thrawn trilogy would agree that that would’ve been a much better storyline to focus the sequel trilogy around.
You know I'm thankful for what they did with episode 7. I remember the hype and the happiness I felt to see a new star wars movie. The anticipation was unreal and I just loved being a fan during that time. After 9 I was just so disappointed. I know it is just a movie, which is supposed to entertain us. A bad star wars movie isn't ending my life or anything but I still feel so much dissappointment over these movies, that I'm not even sure, if I would wanna watch them again, if I decide to make another Star Wars Marathon. These feel like a parallel universe, that isn't part of the main story line and I my biggest hope is, that in the new shows or in a new movie, someone uses the World Between Worlds to retcon the entire trilogy.
I liked The Force Awakens a lot, it was nice and had the new more child oriented feel yet still was Star Wars. The other two had really bad writing and the plots were all over the place, I think writing the whole story at first and then writing the movies around that bigger plot would've benefitted the sequel trilogy a lot.
For me, I didn't like it, but I didn't hate it, it was 'acceptable' and I hoped it was setting up some good stuff to come. I took my then 8 year old son to see it and he loved it to death, it was his favorite film and Fin was his favorite character. Not so the following two films - I think he was most hurt about how they destroyed & sidelined Fin, but also could pick up on how badly written they both were generally. I remember walking out of Rise of Skywalker and him saying "well, that was a huge mess". For a while he went totally off Star Wars, then the Mandalorian came out and now he's a fan again - so all is not lost I guess...
I used to like it, but after a rewatch I realized it was full of nostalgia bait and was a complete rehash of A New Hope but way worse. Kylo was terrible in force awakens, Han just redid his old arc, finn was a cool concept but terrible execution, Rey and Poe had no depth. Feel like most ppl haven’t revisited it and that’s why they see it through rose tinted glasses
What people tend to forget about Luke is that he stopped himself from killing Ben. He saw the future that was gonna be a repeat of what his father did. He wanted to stop it. But he couldn't go through with it because that's not who he is. But in starting it, he caused the future he saw. And him becoming a hermit is just like what Yoda did. Ashamed at what he essentially caused.
So to people say that it's not Luke to do that, you're right. Because he didn't do it.
The fact that he went as far as to attempt it is why it's not Luke.
That’s not the major issue the biggest issue is that he abandoned his sister knowing a threat was out there
@Jake The Protogen Why not? He almost killed Vader . He was tempted to. Tempted is key word.
@Jake The Protogen Cause he saw a vision where a new Vader was born.
@Jake The Protogen Anakin had visions of Padme dying. Of his mother dying. And look where that led him.
I still remember it to this day, i was hyped AF for Last Jedi, i tried to stay away from spoilers as much as possible, i wasnt reading or watching ANYTHING about it, i went into the theater completly blind and what can i say, ..... i left it super dissapointed!
We even did jokes about what happened on the way home and i felt weird about it too, thinking we were gonna be the only people who disliked the movie, .... well, little did i know what was about to happen on the internet xD
I've got to be honest, my love for Star Wars is gone. I love Theory, his content is still fantastic, but with the dramatic mismanagement of Star Wars has killed all excitement. There is the original 6 films, Clone Wars, and Rebels. Unless Lucasfilm comes out and says, "we are decanonizing the sequels and all related content, and we will be retarting the post ROTJ canon with season 3 of The Mandalorian." I wish this wasn't the case, but it is.
We have the comfort of knowing that Lucas himself has denounced the Sequels...multiple times. The most recent occasion being just last year. Nothing can change that. I find it difficult to participate in Star Wars these days too. However, I can sometimes tolerate it if I remind myself that its all just fanfiction now.
Omg me too... My words leaving the theatre TFA "Either this is going to be the greatest episode or one of the worse" I have not watched any of the main series after episode 9. It's just not the same anymore.
"I wish I had never seen that." My first words walking out of the theater after watching Episode 8
Deconstructing the mythical icon of Luke Skywalker for the sake of subverting expectations is unacceptable! There were literally an infinite number of ways Luke could have been presented that would have done his character justice. Rian Johnson was not trying to honor Luke or the legacy of Star Wars, he deliberately wanted to ruin it!
" ... mythical icon..." For the luv of kimchee, chill out and grow up... you sound like a crazy obsessed person...
You said it best where Rian contradicts himself. FYI: If you go to Disney plus and see all the extras for the TLJ there is one that is missing that was initially included in the DVD/Blu Ray where Rian describes his thoughts and how he contradicts himself:
The force is not a superpower, the force is not just about being able to throw things across the room. I wanted in this movie to do a little bit of a reset lesson especially for kids who are coming to these movies for the first time.
In terms of the force as like as a mystical concept as Yoda describes it, it’s a thing that all living beings create, its kind of energy between all living things.
Luke is closed off to the force when we first meet him and that made sense to me for a lot of reasons. I needed to find a way in to why he’s on that island that wasn’t just him hiding and being a coward. So the thing that made sense to me is that he’s actually come to realize that the galaxy thinks it wants the Jedi back, the Jedi have done nothing but add to the problems of the universe and the most selfless act he can do is to do what he couldn’t do in the Empire Strikes Back and ignore the calls of help from his friends and lock himself off.
And suddenly it turns to this kind of predicament he has to hold. He would love to jump back in and help everybody but he’s realized that if he brings the Jedi back into this then the Sith are going to rise up again and the whole thing is going to start again and its just going to be more more misery.
The Jedi have to die so that the light can rise from a new source that will maybe work better.
The fact that they have omitted that particular extra tells you what Disney thinks about the film and Rian.
I feel for the actors of the sequels. Characterisation would've been hard with the lack of planning.
I’ve always been civil about it but I just act like to myself they’re not canon. It was more of a fever dream
I agree. The only way I can reconcile the sequels (which I hate) is to pretend they are in their own continuity.
okay havent finished the video yet - but i love your intro. I love your respect, and your anti-elitist attitude - all at the same time while saying everyone is allowed their own opinions. Well said so far. "This is gona be an interesting video so ...." lmfao 🤣
I get so angry thinking of the Sequel Trilogy, but then I remember, I have my Blu-Rays of 1-6 to watch over and over again.
the beggining of it makes it seem like some sort of glorious amazing movie that shall be remembered for centuries..while in reality i forget its existence already
With the lack of respect shown to beloved characters I find it impossible to believe he was ever a fan. Unless he was just an Empire fan and have been waiting all this time to finally get revenge on Luke 🤔
Honestly, starwars is TIMELESS. It transcends so much and will probably continue to transcend and become more relevant the closer we get to space travel and floating ships. With that being said, ANY changes done that go against the path that has been paid out by the OG writers as well as legends will be taken harshly...the sentiment of the character becomes more important than the character itself.
I guess I'm in the minority as someone who actually liked Luke's character in the last Jedi, but overall did not enjoy the film.
To be fair, there weren't many ways Rian could take Luke's character from where JJ left it.
It was JJ who set up that Luke was gone, and alive at that, and Rian said he didn't like the idea that Luke was simply hiding and ignoring the cries of his friends and sister for help.
And to be fair, the message Luke is there to teach is probably the best in the sequel trilogy. His scene with Yoda is the one that I always enjoy watching, and his duel with Kylo is the best out of all three movies (in terms of tension and weight).
Now, while I like the idea of Luke deciding the Jedi and sith may both have to leave, I DON'T like how he's portrayed as just actively hating and spitting on the Jedi's legacy.
It would've been better if he was purely doing it because he believed for the sake of the galaxy, and his loved ones, that those who came before should be left behind so that a new generation could rise up.
His arc then could've been from him actively not wanting to teach Rey because of his own fear of teaching her the wrong things, of him (like in the film) not living up to her and everyone's expectations, then having the scene with Yoda where he comes to terms with his place in the world, living up to his legend status, albeit briefly, and moving on to teach Rey and try to reach out and save Kylo as a force ghost.
TLDR; I enjoyed the ideas behind Luke's character, but did not like the execution.
Agree with you 100% about the Sequel version of Luke. Glad to see someone with such a huge platform speaking on this, because I’ve been saying it for 5 years now too.
Lol the whole internet pooped in this movie, the people that liked it were in the minority.