Every Time I feel like I have a handle on guitar info, you guys come along and show me I know nothing. Asymetrically wound? I had no idea that was a thing! I used to think I hated learning. You both have showed me that while I HATED school, I absolutely love learning. Cheers gents. Never stop.
This is going to be such a useful episode for so many players out there. We get emails every week from people asking about how to rid noise from their systems so I'll be pointing a lot of folks to this video. I like Mick's point about single-coil hum being a part of that guitar's sound.
For a time I thought the buzz from my amp was a power supply issue. Nope. It was the effects loop of Marshall JCM and an ESP noise suppressor did the trick. For high gain patches, I need to loop in a TCE Sentry to kill the bad frequencies that come up in the gain. To know all that hiss, crackle and buzz is not there anymore does make your tone cleaner, more palatable. It's subtle, but its there particular the higher volumes you go.
I think the issue is less to do with the single coils themselves but the hum that’s increased when it’s run through pedals and amplified. I use both your SlideRig and Cali76 pedals..the larger format versions. Running a SlideRig into a wah into a Fuzz and into my modulation pedals. All that with my Strat (even with noiseless pickups) sounds incredibly noisy and as such I’ve struggled to record using that setup. I’ve just been using my Roger Linn Andrenalinn iii pedal and just going direct. I really don’t think the argument of “its part of the guitar’s sound” is practical when you are trying to get the best guitar sound in a home recording sense.
I would say the ISP Decimator G String is the best noise suppressor/gate on the market today. For me it's not so much a problem with the guitar itself, like I said I have noiseless pickups in my Elite Stratocaster but soon as I run it through my SlideRig and into a Fuzz it's noise city. Living with the noise or accepting it as part of the guitar's sound is a bogus argument. It may be all well and good in a live setting or if you are in a punk or Grindcore band but it's not realistic when you are laying down a guitar part in a score for a motion picture or when it's so noticeable in the mix to the point where it's distracting.
Very informative video. I've been enlightened. I'm a Bass Guitarist, I'm using the EHX Hum Cancelling pedal at the moment, coz our power here can be atrocious, and there's lots of interference. I've learned so much. Thank you. Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
Let's cut right to it...it's time for a new Grammy category and time for these two fellows to be recognized for the sheer body of and value of the work they have done...! Talent...this is as good as it gets. EXCELLENT as usual!
Larry Marseglia I fully agree. Best guitar gear show. I have learned so much in a short (and in guitar universe, a few years is short) period for absolutely free. Not 1 shop will take the time to explain even 5% of what these amazing guys do. This show deserves so much more subscribers. Now I'm going to order the TPS shirt Mick is wearing. Thank you so much guys!
I use the Boss NS2 and the TC Sentry for specific purposes (ideal for synth pedals like the EHX 9 series). Mick noticing that the Sentry changed the tone is spot on - it's digital so therefore there is A/D conversion and some latency, hence the phase change Mick noticed. TC don't publicise this but this is how they can do frequency gating in the digital domain. The Boss is totally analog with a colored sound. The Boss is not capable of hard gating and It is not intentionally changing the frequencies either. It is really an Envelope Controlled Amp. This means that the amplitude of the gate follows the amplitude of the input signal. That can be either very useful or very annoying. Saturated signals basically are brickwall limited and don't have much dynamics left. The NS2 can be used to impose the original guitar dynamics onto the saturated signal. But for synth or metal sounds we may not want this. That is where a hard gate can be much better - where the gate is either on or off like a switch and does not change the dynamics in between. The TC can do this. The Decimator is pure analog signal path whith sophisticated hard gating which is why I believe it rules for metal. At 52:30 when Mick notices that the reverb is gated he is correct. It is the NS dynamic behaviour that was letting some reverb through but when he damped the strings the reverb got shut off too. Time based FX don't make much noise and could be inserted *after* the noise gate but still in the amp FX loop. That would allow the reverb tails to ring out fully and mask the hard gating. Some metal guys use two noise gates but I don't see the need for this if it's done correctly with the clean envelope detection immediately from the guitar, and the actual gating done immediately after the final dry sound stage but before any wet FX that need to ring out. Great show :)
Mick preferring the sentry off - I just got one and it definitely kills some very high end and attack in my signal: like every other TC pedal I’ve bought and then sold. I don’t know why I don’t learn my lesson w TC electronic. My noise issue is so bad right now that I’ll keep it on, but I’m already looking for a replacement.
The thing I didn't realise at first about the NS-2 (and similar pedals) is that the level detection and gate/expander happen in different places. Using the NS-2 jack labelling, the level detection happens between Input and Send, and the gate/expander is applied between Return and Output. That is, the Input signal is a sidechain for the gate/expander. This arrangement lets you use the lowest-noise, uncompressed signal for the level detector (by plugging your guitar straight in to the Input), and it doesn't matter how much extra noise is present in the signal coming back into the pedal's Return, it'll get muted when the guitar is quiet. So, put your wah, compressor, boost, distortion, preamp, etc. between the Send and Return. Then route the pedal's Output into your amp's Return (yes, the pedal won't reduce noise from your amp's power stage, but that shouldn't be a problem). And, as explained in the video, you should place any delay/reverb effects after the pedal's Output so it won't be gated as well (unless that's what you're going for). About the only issues with the scheme are: 1) the fadeout/gate when you cross the threshold can be abrupt, especially if you're relying on feedback to sustain a note or chord, and 2) changing conditions as you move around can raise the guitar's noise level above the threshold. And 3) the potential confusion of the extra cabling and having the amp in the pedal's FX loop and the pedal in the amp's FX loop simultaneously. :)
I cannot thank you guys enough for this video. Particularly the first half. Indispensable information. In the beginning, there was a plan. You came into existence with a purpose! And you’re fulfilling that universal purpose! Best pedal channel imo.
Getting the Boss NS-2 installed on my board has been a game changer (all my gain pedals going through the NS-2 loop). I'm working with a singer who is sensitive to amp noise and this is a great solution as well as helping in with the textured ambient playing I like to indulge in at home. Even playing in a regular reggae band, it works a treat. Every now and then I switch the NS-2 off to see what its doing and wow the noise is loud, and definitely not missed. And it's important to note, when you are playing the amp hum and the noise of the single coils are fully there in the sound, so nothing is lost. Many thanks as always TPS for a great overview and information!
I got really excited about this idea too, of basically treating the pre-amp like the last pedal on my direct chain into my Marshall JVM210H, then back out through the Pre-amp Send at the back of my amp into the return of my noise suppressor pedal, and then back out into the Power Amp in, but oddly enough, when I connected it up and tried it, I got a consistent noise on the line (a mild higher-pitch whine, almost digital sounding). What is causing that?
Important episode - thanks for doing that. The need for clean and isolated power can not be over emphasized. I learned it the hard way 🤬 Dan has been very polite in not mentioning it - I have no connection to the company whatsoever but I wanted to say: his modular GigRig power system is just the absolute best solution out there. Small, light, powerful, clean, modular ... just absolutely stellar ... my wallet is in pain after buying so much of it, but it is worth it. All noise, hum, cable mess, daisy chain troubles are history now. Trying to save money in the power system is not the way to go. If the pedals are worth it for us, the power must be too.
Totally agree. A quality power supply with isolated power is the way to go. So may guitar players object to spending money on their power supply and wonder why their set up sounds crap when they get tons of noise, hum etc. I use the T-Rex Junior it’s an awesome power supply and I run half a dozen pedals with zero noise.
My experience.. I was using two handmade power supplies that I ordered from one guy that makes them in another city untill I finally had a budget for a new proper power supply. I bought the Fender Engine Room 12 and was blown away by how silent my rig was as soon as I turned it on for the first time. I even thought that my amp volume was at zero haha. But there was another revelation after that.. I have two power sockets in my room, and the difference in noise between those two is very noticable. One socket is waaay too noisy. So there you go, those guys are right when they say that it's important to consider and fix all of those problems before investing in something further. Someone inexpireienced could easily been caught up in it if the sockets were the main problem even after buying a good supply or something similar.
Excellent episode guys. Just hearing that you guys are actually getting the same noise that I do and that it is normal alleviated so many worries. You also presented great solutions. Thanks so much. On a side note, the lighting is improving as you guys are getting used to your new digs. It looks a lot brighter without sacrificing warmth. Keep it up guys and thanks as always.
I love my MXR Smart Gate! There is nothing out there that sounds as natural and cleans up your noise as well. Not weird harsh cut offs when ringing out notes. Try it out!
I love when Professor Dan takes us to school! I must have watched the VCPI episode half a dozen times when putting together my first pedal board (after 20yrs playing guitar) just to make sure I understood what to do about noise and such. Thank you guys for all the help! Much love to everyone involved
Loved this episode. It is so much better now with me recording via a clean amp with a power brick instead of daisy chaining. Always find the shows useful from you guys. Thank you. :)
the ns 2 my secret weapon on my system which is dry wet wet rig. and with all my stuff the ns2 and my rocktron hush in the rack i never have noise or tone issues. all i get is whoa your sound is massive..the ns2 has really allowed my system to be so consistent for decade now. my ps is a carl martin and its actually a great unit. what im getting next is the ns1x ..its a amazing unit. if i was just using a few pedals probably would still want one
Don’t forget the merit of the in-between pickup positions when using single coils. I’ve had to change all the lighting in my studio due to interference from transformers. This is such a great subject guys thanks for covering it.
I tried them all and owned a few. I use 60 pedals. YES 60. They are in 5 loops. The dirt pedals are in 3 and I use 3 Sentry gates. I have no problems at all. The Sentry are the very best!!!
One thing I should add. Once setup for your particular rig you can leave it alone. But before I do a tune you reset the decay knob with a minor tweak to just get the right perfection for the tune I'm doing and the pedals I have selected. I can tighten up parts of tune like when playing chords for backing a vocal when I use a medium gain OD. It makes all the parts I play come off like the sound you hear on recordings where the engineer has cleaned up all the slop. I couldn't live without them. Without them the overall sound sounds crude and amateur.
Hey Daniel and Mick, the TC gate is probably the worst gate ever to take as an example. And you’re right Mick noticing a difference in loosing frequencies, when turned on. It’s a shame you didn’t have the ISP G-string, because it is by far the best gate pedal on the market.
Bought your pedal, I use it with my Friedman BE 100 amp. Truly an amazing sound. I know that has nothing to do with the context of this show I had to give a shout-out. After chasing a sound I’m 100% happy with for 35 years the search is over.
I've been wanting an independent video on this subject for so long, thank you guys so much for giving me the info I need so I know what do to when I look for pedals for my dream board
Great show as always! Just wanted to share a signal path that served me wonders as a someone who uses gain pedals as well as heavy amp gain. Guitar->tube screamer -> OCD -> Input of NS2-> Send of NS2 into input of amp -> send of amp -> GE7 -> return of NS2. And by using it all with a switcher I can get rid of the NS2 when I'm playing clean.
I am always amazed as to how you guys take what seems to be a simple pedal, into a science experiment, AND have it all make perfect sense. I have a whole new respect for power isolation and when to use a gate (even if the hiss got really grating at times - lol). And one thought, might be good to put a cabling graphic up when talking signal chain. I'm not sure I get how it was setup, but would be nice to see it visually. Thanks guys!
24:20 - noise cancelling single coils. Just last year I bought a new Strat. Tried an Eric Clapton, and to ME it didn't sound like a Strat should. I admit that Eric made it sound ok, but it wasn't for me. I went with an American Professional instead with the new Shaw V-mod pickups and I couldn't be happier.
Top notch vid, I as a metal guitarist have been Ummming over the sentry gate pedal for at least a year as mine only cuts the obvious sound and therefore ruining attack and tone and this has helped me decide to take that plunge and just from watching this vid I've confirmed what my main signal issues are...just the kind of info I've needed recently so this vid was a treat!
Really helpful advice here. As a Worship guitarist I’ve struggled keeping the noise down with drive pedals / single coil hum but then had issues when doing volume swells where the first part of the note is lost... sort of have a love/hate relationship with noise gates etc and as my playing has progressed I’ve also come to the realisation that without is better and knock the volume off when not playing! So glad you guys are on this same wavelength! I guess I’ve learnt a lot from you guys over the episodes! Thanks
Great show (again). Thanks. Humble request here please: Might you be able to put up on screen a "napkin-sketch" of the signal chain/path at the end of each vid.? I know there's a lot of the G2 wizardry going on, but when Dan said the guitar goes into the NS, is that direct and then the out of the NS goes into G2? Or is there a loop out from the G2 going into the NS which then does a merry dance around any number of combinations of loop/pedals then split into humdingers then back to the input of amp(s) then... etc. For me a very basic sketch would be most useful in the learning curve... Thanks again.
Great as always guys. I think a correlation can be drawn between noise gates and compressors in so much as they both utilize thresholds to deal with both wanted and unwanted signals. Both have trade offs as one finds the balance between squashing the signal and loss of tone.
I can NOT thank you guys enough for the amount of info shared in this medium format. VCPI episode and this made me feel like I went to audio engineering school for rockers. Absolutely brilliant! I will have to live with that single coil hum, it’s just that sound. Tone chasing is a never ending quest.
Great episode! I was using an ISP decimator g string and it worked great for some time. But once I discovered my power supplies were causing proximity noise I replaced those and my rig was quiet as a mouse.
The Stone Deaf Noise Reaper is a good option if you're in the UK. No noticeable difference from the Zuul or ISP Decimator. All three were keyed from sidechain in my comparisons
Great video! I had a pocket watch when I was in high school. I remember hearing a beep every second (literally) when I stood with my guitar. Come to find out that the pocket watch was doing something to the signal through the volume pots. Super weird. Love your videos!!
Great show as always, guys. I have a note for you on the difference between suppressors and gates. Dan rightly described the way a gate works: kills all signal below the threshold. A suppressor works a bit differently. It's kind of like the opposite of a compressor. A suppressor uses gain reduction to lower the noise floor. Like a compressor, you set a threshold. But like a gate, the gain reduction is applied to signals below the threshold. A typical suppressor applies between 20 and 80 dB of gain reduction below the threshold. The gain reduction is full frequency, though. The operation is just less brutal than a gate. Because of the way a suppressor operates, some people find them to sound more natural. Btw, LOVED the Slayer nod at the end. Totally was not expecting that.
I love how natural and how unforced these guys act, it just makes the viewing experience . It’s so much nicer over the usual shouty delivery of other content creators
William Campbell I like the sarcasm, however I don’t think you understood my point. What I mean is that they don’t look like they put on some false persona i.e: they don’t act overly enthusiastic, shout lots and attempt to force comedy nor do they actively make out like everything they try is the best thing since sliced bread.
Thank the good lord for That Pedal Show. I've been using the Sentry for over a year and still had a bit of noise (not much) from the high gain channel. I finally get around to watching this video. It's simple. Just run the send and returns through the fx loop. Problem solved. I had no idea. Thanks guys. SLAAAYEEEERRRR \m/
Great episode. Sometimes I watch tps just for fun, sometimes it’s to solve a problem with my guitar tone. Today was the later, and I’m glad I did. I need to tame down the noise from my combination of boost and fuzz. I’m not a super high-gainer, but I like being able to roll my guitar volume knob to get anything from thick fuzzy goodness to chimey OD. The Land Devices harmonic percolator is perfect for that, but especially with my always on dirtyish boost in front of it, the noise is massive (even with an isolated power supply, MXR Iso-Brick)!
Hey guys. Cheers from the left coast and the people’s republic of Portland. Just a quick note of thanks. I’ve been watching for about a year now since I started a pedal board project. Your insights have been invaluable. Of all the guitar gear videos out there I like you guys the most. I especially like the look of shear ecstasy on Dan’s face when he gets a great sound. Keep up the great work.
Noise gate/suppressor is a valuable tool to have on gigs; it can save a gig from noise caused by bad electricity at ”not so great” venues/bars or some random noise from pedalboard (noise that isn’t normally there).
It's like, Dan shows his metal/shred roots once in a while and he's at home. He does the blues kind of stuff and stumbles because it's not his thing. Just shred Dan, SHRED AWAY. Mick, you can chug decently too tho
what a great and helpful video - now I immediately will go down to my basement music room, put a sign on the door "Bucking Hum Palace", use candles instead of electric lights and re-cable my pedalboard :-D
Still saving for the whole G2 system for a big board however at the moment my small gig board, used all the time, uses a 1 spot daisy to power a D+M and a keeley comp only, then i have an HX FX and use its included supply...i also have a 1 spot cs12 brick on my medium board, its great...great episode guys!
I use the ISP decimator ll when I have to and it sounds great, no tone suckage at all and it also doesn't kill the sustain at all. Best noise suppressor I have ever used. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, J.S. nothing to do with wiring or power supply.
i know it seems silly. but please do a video on tuners... there an essential. and ive always wondered why you have the di'addario or the strobe? please do one. everyone i know wants it ;')
Daniel Harper big issue with tuners is always how easy they are to read in bright sunlight. So, outside broadcast needed for That Tuner Episode. Before the British summer ends. This weekend really...
Ooooookay. We use the D’Addario because it works and they sent it to us. Nice and bright, big display. I use the TU-3s, Mick here. Dan uses the Sonic Research jobbe. Very personal decision. Cheers!
Basically get a Korg or Boss... Done. - I've had the TU-2 for over maybe 15 years, still working despited being stomped on very regularly. - The only reason I'd want a different one is the looks and design and perhaps newer ones would respond a little quicker. But every time I just kinda shrug and don't bother replacing it, cause it's still like new and doing nothing wrong actually.
keep in mind that having a meter that shows how many cents off-pitch a note is can be crucial for some musicians picky about intonation/temperment. Check out guitarist James Taylor's youtube video on how he tunes his guitar. Honestly I can't hear the difference when I follow his oddly specific instruction vs standard tuning. Some people have 8 strings with a fanned fretboard, and the advice may not apply to them. Others rely on a trem/whammy to fine tune each note they play and DGAF about tuning.
@@ThatPedalShow two things in observation here. 1 being that the lights interfering with lights etc. I'd recommend getting your guitars shielded as it will help reduce noise
Adam F Could you elaborate a bit please? I have a G2, isolated supply but I'm still trying to eliminate a bit of noise. Might be the grail but you never know. Cheers
Hey Mark, I was referring to how this ep of TPS raised my awareness of the electromagnetic interference that single coil pick ups, pick up and distinguishing this from noise coming from the pedal and amp set up when the guitar is not in the loop or turned down. Further, how different solutions are needed in each case. I was disappointed that buying an isolated supply (after watching the VCPI ep) didn't really reduce the noise. I know now that its only one piece of the puzzle. I reckon you can get on top of noise issues between the VCPI and the Be quiet, Hum Gates and suppressors episodes. Best of luck with it mate!
I’m sure this will be a useful episode for a lot of people. Personally I find the hum of single coils and noise from a dimed fuzz rather reassuring that everything is about to sound glorious😄
That Pedal Show I have an AC30 with only the one pedal (Wampler Plexi Drive) and for some reason when I plug it in via amp and guitar, it makes a lot of noise. Is this because the power adapter I use to power the pedal is terrible?
George Richards It could be. Make sure what you use is the proper volts and ma(milliamps) for the best result. Does your Vox have a Bright, or second channel, that gets more of the noise? Because your using a Marshall in a box style pedal, with your Vox, so you want to have your amp set right as well. Wampler will answer questions on his channel quite often, maybe email him. It doesn't hurt to try. Did you see the episode the boys did on Fuzz/distortion with Vox amps? It's a good one you might find interesting, if you haven't already.
Loved your approach to this complex topic about noise - you guys are always teaching me new things - nicely done! I just started using a TC Sentry for my P90 LP when pulling high gain out of my Marshall amp. Easy to switch the Sentry off when the gain is dialed back and its not needed. I just run it in the effects loop, but I will have to try the setup you used today. That Boss noise suppressor did a nice job as well ... hmmm. Loved that P90 guitar Mick! The creamy tones you pulled out of that guitar were amazing! 60 cycle hum is something to be embraced, not feared :)
It wasn't your imagination -- I've heard that "weird phasing sound" with all TC products I've ever tried, Spark boost excepted. Something about their A/D conversion, I reckon.
Still a helpful video today! I switched from a daisy chain pedal power cable to individual cables and now only need the noise suppression if I turn on two distortion pedals at the same time. Thanks guys!
Awesome show today. There's guys out there who use a lot of gain from their amp, in heavy bands like I do, yet use vintage guitars and still love their pedals and like to straddle the world of metal and bluesier noodlings at the same time. Noise suppressors are essential and you covered the topic brilliantly. Thumbs up.
I love how Dan is trying to make a serious point *Mick reaches over and drinks out of comically large water bottle* actually though. That thing must be a half gallon of water! Hydration = Tone
Very interesting! It’s obvious that you are not hi gain guys 😊 In taking the debate forward: - Daisy-chain is not bad when the setup contains only a few analog pedals. Digital pedals consume (a lot) more current. One exception: germanium fuzz pedals; these pedals use pnp transistors and connect the + of the power supply to the chassis of the pedal. The power supply of the germanium fuzz pedal must be or insulated or separated. One good method is the use of a battery for that pedal only. The easiest and cost-effective solution is to separate digital and analog power supply and use a rechargeable battery for germanium fuzz. - From my experience in electronic, every noise suppressor pedal are noise gate. They are all working the same way with a VCA controlled like an expander whatever they call themselves. Non-time dependent noise reduction are plugin, not available in pedal format. It’s only my experience, if someone know such a pedal, I’d be very interested to know it. That you guys
Thank you for differentiating between the different types of noise. I once played a gig with a DanElectro Wild Thing Baritone and had TERRIBLE 60-cycle hum...with no gain. Just me, my Old School Tremolo and my BDRI. I was trying to play something sweet and had to stand sideways the entire song. Thank you for backing up my theory that no equipment will truly solve that problem. I've seen so many threads where someone complains about that noise and everyone recommends all of this gear for clean power, isolation, noise suppression...understand the problem before you recommend a solution, people!!!
Yeah, gluing foil or spraying metal paint into the guitar cavities to theoretically create a Faraday cage that blocks RF...which after googling I think might be hogwash
Shielding does make a difference, and does reduce hum. Ever picked up noise from your phone being in your pocket? That would be reduced with good shielding. There is an argument it can reduce resonance in the guitar but that's on the guitar and player to decided. Here's a video which shows the difference shielding can make. ruclips.net/video/OpPjF3NMcaU/видео.html
Another great video. Being a metal player I knew pretty much everything covered but still enjoyed it. Obviously with you not playing in that world you don't need these pedals but its not always possible to turn down the volume in fast start/stop parts & that's where gates etc are essential.
Cool episode. What I'm unclear on is... If you want to use an NS-2 using the X cable method like you describe here, but you also use some OD and Dist pedals, AND you normally use delay and reverb in the amps loop, where does the delay and reverb go in the signal chain, and where do your dirt pedals go?
The first two minutes were significant. It was evident that Dan does not normally use really high gain, and his reflex action is to turn down the guitar volume immediately after playing. Unless using really high gain a lot of the time, a noise suppressor/gate might not be the answer for everyone. I bought an NS-2, and ultimately found that I preferred either muting the guitar using the volume pot, or engaging a tuner to mute the guitar. The NS-2 does a great job when connected in X pattern, but it does affect the tone somewhat, which I did not like. Not surprising when you see how many components there are in this clever pedal. The buffered bypass circuit is simple and I was happy that did not seem to alter the tone. This video helped me identify the most significant sources of noise, which is indeed the guitar and environmental EMI. Engaging Comp, OD, Fuzz, DIST pedals individually with the guitar muted showed only moderate noise. With no pedals engaged, noise from a clean amp was negligible. This also revealed that power supply noise into buffered bypass pedals was not a problem. So it's volume pot or tuner muting for me, that still leaves some noise from downstream pedals; but I can cope with that. For really high gain users, a suppressor/gate is probably a life saver; that Sentry looks impressive.
Hello Dan & Mick; Could you please do an episode to address us folks that have two or more amps in residential setting and we need to isolate the power to the amps. How can we do that? What methods or equipment do we need to remove the ground loop hum?
30:40 Mick talking about bass there in metal, it's funny because John Petrucci said he often has the bass off on his rhythm tone, but compensates a little with a graphic eq
I think the Petrucci quote is from dialing in his Mesa mark 2c+s. His Mark series amp has pre gain stage bass eq. so turning the bass up makes the amp flabby and farty. Thats why there is an five band graphic Eq post gain for adding in bass. this makes the bass tight and much cleaner. Petrucci has a lot of bass in his sound but it is tight and controlled.
Correct, I think he sets the preamp bass about 2 and dials in the classic Boogie V on the eq. Boogie's get flubby with too much pre-amp bass dialled in.
I have my NS-2 on top of my amp, the signal is treating the input and the loop of the amp. I use the shortest possible cables and I use a parametric eq in conjunction with the NS-2. I did all the suggested things as far as proper power and fixing the ground loop problems as well. It made a world of difference. I used 2 gates previously. Now, I just need one now. I use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to tap a signal to send to fx now. So, the amp is a master preamp and can be used dry only for wet/dry/wet.
Came here because of last week's VCQ and, man, I'm so glad I did. Learnt so much. The daisy chain is in the bin! I now have a power brick. Dan you're a legend and thanks to both of you as always 👐👊
Evan Ward it's a decent pedal. Wish I would have known about the G-string before I picked it up, tbh. Anywhere between 12, and 1 o'clock, the decimator 2 really starts affecting tone
What a coincidence this video turning up this week. It just so happens that I ordered a shiny new power setup from Gigrig earlier in the week because I was suffering the exact symptoms you demonstrated here. Can’t wait to rewire the board with the generator, distributors and isolators and get it nice and quiet.
Dan and Mick haven’t heard Metal since 1986. 😂😂😂😂😉 Maybe if you bring Rabea for a Metal equivalent of this, you can get Kevin Shields and do a proper Shoegaze show.
I now have a 2nd high gain amp: EVH 5150 III EL34 50 watt. That has gobs of high gain. That amp, I have TC Electronic Iron Curtain at the input, because the fx loop is switchable I put a always on Cusack Music Boost there. I decided to put a 2nd gate after the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8. The 3rd channel which I only run at 9:15am, is slightly noisey. The post gate knocked out the remaining noise, barely need the threshold up. I use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 as a send to my stereo fx then into dual Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus devices. Sounds fantastic.
What's the steady low hum I'm hearing throughout the entire show? Really annoying after a while... Oh, right... it was the fridge in the room next to me.
I was just sitting here thinking about that. After years of modeler amps/pedalboards and bedroom playing I’ve joined a band and bought myself a proper amp rig and have started buying pedals and I’m trying to make sense of it all, then I was watching this thinking “oh god that must be unbearable in the room” then I realized my computer, fridge, air conditioner, etc all making so much noise all the time that I’ve just grown immune to. not that I don’t feel like a noise suppressor wouldn’t help, but I guess I don’t need to go throw another $200 or so down the drain after I’ve just bought another pedal this week.
I don't use very much gain and I've solved all of my noise problems. Power Conditioner, Isolated Power, Humbuckers and Fender Noiseless Single Coils, Quality cables, Digital Amp (Fender ToneMaster Deluxe) and overall not a ton of gain in my tone. But I'm looking for a Gate just to clean up that tiny bit of hum coming from my old Crybaby Wah and fuzz pedals when the amp is up at gig volumes. The Signal to Noise ratio is very good, so the gate would only be there to annihilate that pesky little bit of noise. My intention is to find a decent mini noise gate and stick it under the board as an always-on or always-off utility. Most of the time I don't need it. But it's good to have in the chain if I end up at a loud gig in a building with a bad power situation to clean things up a little bit.
Great show. My only problem noise is the preamp on my old Boogie for some mainly acoustic type gigs. I use an NS2 rigged the same way as here with the preamp in the NS2 loop. I set the NS2 decay to minimum and the output then goes to delay, reverb and looper on the board before going to the FX return on the amp. Delay and reverb tails sound so good when not competing with background noise!
I'm a big fan noise supressors. I'm not a metal player... but use a fair bit of high gain. I just find the usual 60 cycle guitar sounds a bit yukky. I use an ISP g-string to clean it all up... lowish threshold. The send return feature is amazing. Use all gigrig power solutions to fix digital issues.
i have an all battery powered pedalboard. GCB-95 Crybaby wah (crybaby front plate) -> Vintage Double Jack LPB-1 -> Black Russian Big Muff V8 (4 screws) -> Boss DD-6 -> Boss HM-2 but still get hum and sounds. Especially when the muff and hm-2 are both on. On occasion the big muff or lpb-1 will make some sort of canceled hum/distorted sound and I need to tap the chassis a few times to get it to sound right again. Any thoughts? Presently, I am eyeing a zoom ms-50g to use for its noise supressor as well as reverb sounds.
Something I found out the hard way is when using any type of loop switcher, whether it be the Gigrig or a little single looper, cable routing matters a LOT. The cables from the send/return jacks to my pedals would act like antennas when they went anywhere near my Voodoo Labs power supplies, and I'd have to pin them in place to minimise the noise. Gain pedals were near enough unusable. Upgraded to a Truetone CS12 and the noise is gone (that noise turned out to be emissions from the toroidal transformer in the Voodoo Lab, which is not part of the Truetone's design)
![Let’s Talk About Fender Strats [Sounds, Bridge Setup, Pickups & More] - That Pedal Show](/img/1.gif)
There's a T shirt for you. "With great power, comes great isolation."
CodyMBB I would buy at least two of those shirts.
Not sure how well this comment aged
@@danadrian2752 Very Badly hahahahahahahahah
@@danadrian2752 🤣🤣🤣
Excellent 🤣👍👍
Every Time I feel like I have a handle on guitar info, you guys come along and show me I know nothing. Asymetrically wound? I had no idea that was a thing! I used to think I hated learning. You both have showed me that while I HATED school, I absolutely love learning. Cheers gents. Never stop.
Ah that’s awesome Eran :)))
This is going to be such a useful episode for so many players out there. We get emails every week from people asking about how to rid noise from their systems so I'll be pointing a lot of folks to this video. I like Mick's point about single-coil hum being a part of that guitar's sound.
For a time I thought the buzz from my amp was a power supply issue. Nope. It was the effects loop of Marshall JCM and an ESP noise suppressor did the trick. For high gain patches, I need to loop in a TCE Sentry to kill the bad frequencies that come up in the gain. To know all that hiss, crackle and buzz is not there anymore does make your tone cleaner, more palatable. It's subtle, but its there particular the higher volumes you go.
I think the issue is less to do with the single coils themselves but the hum that’s increased when it’s run through pedals and amplified. I use both your SlideRig and Cali76 pedals..the larger format versions. Running a SlideRig into a wah into a Fuzz and into my modulation pedals. All that with my Strat (even with noiseless pickups) sounds incredibly noisy and as such I’ve struggled to record using that setup. I’ve just been using my Roger Linn Andrenalinn iii pedal and just going direct. I really don’t think the argument of “its part of the guitar’s sound” is practical when you are trying to get the best guitar sound in a home recording sense.
I would say the ISP Decimator G String is the best noise suppressor/gate on the market today.
For me it's not so much a problem with the guitar itself, like I said I have noiseless pickups in my Elite Stratocaster but soon as I run it through my SlideRig and into a Fuzz it's noise city.
Living with the noise or accepting it as part of the guitar's sound is a bogus argument. It may be all well and good in a live setting or if you are in a punk or Grindcore band but it's not realistic when you are laying down a guitar part in a score for a motion picture or when it's so noticeable in the mix to the point where it's distracting.
Well man at the end of the day you get what you can afford. Unfortunately top quality stuff is priced accordingly.
Like I said...get what you can afford.
Very informative video. I've been enlightened. I'm a Bass Guitarist, I'm using the EHX Hum Cancelling pedal at the moment, coz our power here can be atrocious, and there's lots of interference. I've learned so much. Thank you.
Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
Let's cut right to it...it's time for a new Grammy category and time for these two fellows to be recognized for the sheer body of and value of the work they have done...! Talent...this is as good as it gets. EXCELLENT as usual!
Larry Marseglia I fully agree. Best guitar gear show. I have learned so much in a short (and in guitar universe, a few years is short) period for absolutely free. Not 1 shop will take the time to explain even 5% of what these amazing guys do.
This show deserves so much more subscribers.
Now I'm going to order the TPS shirt Mick is wearing.
Thank you so much guys!
I use the Boss NS2 and the TC Sentry for specific purposes (ideal for synth pedals like the EHX 9 series). Mick noticing that the Sentry changed the tone is spot on - it's digital so therefore there is A/D conversion and some latency, hence the phase change Mick noticed. TC don't publicise this but this is how they can do frequency gating in the digital domain. The Boss is totally analog with a colored sound. The Boss is not capable of hard gating and It is not intentionally changing the frequencies either. It is really an Envelope Controlled Amp. This means that the amplitude of the gate follows the amplitude of the input signal. That can be either very useful or very annoying. Saturated signals basically are brickwall limited and don't have much dynamics left. The NS2 can be used to impose the original guitar dynamics onto the saturated signal. But for synth or metal sounds we may not want this. That is where a hard gate can be much better - where the gate is either on or off like a switch and does not change the dynamics in between. The TC can do this. The Decimator is pure analog signal path whith sophisticated hard gating which is why I believe it rules for metal. At 52:30 when Mick notices that the reverb is gated he is correct. It is the NS dynamic behaviour that was letting some reverb through but when he damped the strings the reverb got shut off too. Time based FX don't make much noise and could be inserted *after* the noise gate but still in the amp FX loop. That would allow the reverb tails to ring out fully and mask the hard gating. Some metal guys use two noise gates but I don't see the need for this if it's done correctly with the clean envelope detection immediately from the guitar, and the actual gating done immediately after the final dry sound stage but before any wet FX that need to ring out. Great show :)
Dan, hearing you play Raining Blood made my morning.
Also, I was surprised that white Ibanez Jem didn't make an appearance.
Mick preferring the sentry off - I just got one and it definitely kills some very high end and attack in my signal: like every other TC pedal I’ve bought and then sold. I don’t know why I don’t learn my lesson w TC electronic. My noise issue is so bad right now that I’ll keep it on, but I’m already looking for a replacement.
Interesting, I have the sentry and im thinking of trying the boss ns-2
Saw the NS-2 in action today and went out and bought one used at my local shop... best $40 I've spent on my board.
Mick on the 175 towards the end - FLYING! Glorious.
Seems like every week you add a thousand subscribers to the channel. Love it. Keep up the great work, guys!
The thing I didn't realise at first about the NS-2 (and similar pedals) is that the level detection and gate/expander happen in different places. Using the NS-2 jack labelling, the level detection happens between Input and Send, and the gate/expander is applied between Return and Output. That is, the Input signal is a sidechain for the gate/expander. This arrangement lets you use the lowest-noise, uncompressed signal for the level detector (by plugging your guitar straight in to the Input), and it doesn't matter how much extra noise is present in the signal coming back into the pedal's Return, it'll get muted when the guitar is quiet.
So, put your wah, compressor, boost, distortion, preamp, etc. between the Send and Return. Then route the pedal's Output into your amp's Return (yes, the pedal won't reduce noise from your amp's power stage, but that shouldn't be a problem). And, as explained in the video, you should place any delay/reverb effects after the pedal's Output so it won't be gated as well (unless that's what you're going for).
About the only issues with the scheme are: 1) the fadeout/gate when you cross the threshold can be abrupt, especially if you're relying on feedback to sustain a note or chord, and 2) changing conditions as you move around can raise the guitar's noise level above the threshold. And 3) the potential confusion of the extra cabling and having the amp in the pedal's FX loop and the pedal in the amp's FX loop simultaneously. :)
38:57 Raining Blood time! You two are awesome!!!!!
Mitja Jalovec SLAAAAAAAYER!!!
I cannot thank you guys enough for this video. Particularly the first half. Indispensable information.
In the beginning, there was a plan. You came into existence with a purpose! And you’re fulfilling that universal purpose! Best pedal channel imo.
Getting the Boss NS-2 installed on my board has been a game changer (all my gain pedals going through the NS-2 loop). I'm working with a singer who is sensitive to amp noise and this is a great solution as well as helping in with the textured ambient playing I like to indulge in at home. Even playing in a regular reggae band, it works a treat. Every now and then I switch the NS-2 off to see what its doing and wow the noise is loud, and definitely not missed. And it's important to note, when you are playing the amp hum and the noise of the single coils are fully there in the sound, so nothing is lost.
Many thanks as always TPS for a great overview and information!
Hi, how do you set all your gain pedas through the NS-2 loop?
52:49 - Genius! I literally went to the store and bought a noise suppressor (NS-2) to test this... works amazingly well. You guys freaking rock!
I got really excited about this idea too, of basically treating the pre-amp like the last pedal on my direct chain into my Marshall JVM210H, then back out through the Pre-amp Send at the back of my amp into the return of my noise suppressor pedal, and then back out into the Power Amp in, but oddly enough, when I connected it up and tried it, I got a consistent noise on the line (a mild higher-pitch whine, almost digital sounding). What is causing that?
Important episode - thanks for doing that. The need for clean and isolated power can not be over emphasized. I learned it the hard way 🤬 Dan has been very polite in not mentioning it - I have no connection to the company whatsoever but I wanted to say: his modular GigRig power system is just the absolute best solution out there. Small, light, powerful, clean, modular ... just absolutely stellar ... my wallet is in pain after buying so much of it, but it is worth it. All noise, hum, cable mess, daisy chain troubles are history now. Trying to save money in the power system is not the way to go. If the pedals are worth it for us, the power must be too.
Totally agree. A quality power supply with isolated power is the way to go. So may guitar players object to spending money on their power supply and wonder why their set up sounds crap when they get tons of noise, hum etc. I use the T-Rex Junior it’s an awesome power supply and I run half a dozen pedals with zero noise.
My experience.. I was using two handmade power supplies that I ordered from one guy that makes them in another city untill I finally had a budget for a new proper power supply. I bought the Fender Engine Room 12 and was blown away by how silent my rig was as soon as I turned it on for the first time. I even thought that my amp volume was at zero haha. But there was another revelation after that.. I have two power sockets in my room, and the difference in noise between those two is very noticable. One socket is waaay too noisy. So there you go, those guys are right when they say that it's important to consider and fix all of those problems before investing in something further. Someone inexpireienced could easily been caught up in it if the sockets were the main problem even after buying a good supply or something similar.
Excellent episode guys. Just hearing that you guys are actually getting the same noise that I do and that it is normal alleviated so many worries. You also presented great solutions. Thanks so much. On a side note, the lighting is improving as you guys are getting used to your new digs. It looks a lot brighter without sacrificing warmth. Keep it up guys and thanks as always.
I love my MXR Smart Gate! There is nothing out there that sounds as natural and cleans up your noise as well. Not weird harsh cut offs when ringing out notes. Try it out!
Starts video saying you never need a noise suppressor. Then spends an hour making a case for why you should have one. Lol
And 66 minutes are still not enough to mention that both the pedals have both a gate and a suppressor function.
I love when Professor Dan takes us to school! I must have watched the VCPI episode half a dozen times when putting together my first pedal board (after 20yrs playing guitar) just to make sure I understood what to do about noise and such. Thank you guys for all the help! Much love to everyone involved
Loved this episode. It is so much better now with me recording via a clean amp with a power brick instead of daisy chaining. Always find the shows useful from you guys. Thank you. :)
the ns 2 my secret weapon on my system which is dry wet wet rig. and with all my stuff the ns2 and my rocktron hush in the rack i never have noise or tone issues. all i get is whoa your sound is massive..the ns2 has really allowed my system to be so consistent for decade now. my ps is a carl martin and its actually a great unit. what im getting next is the ns1x ..its a amazing unit. if i was just using a few pedals probably would still want one
That ending was the best thing that ever happened on TPS
They literally look like Beavis and Butthead rockin out.
Don’t forget the merit of the in-between pickup positions when using single coils.
I’ve had to change all the lighting in my studio due to interference from transformers.
This is such a great subject guys thanks for covering it.
I tried them all and owned a few. I use 60 pedals. YES 60. They are in 5 loops. The dirt pedals are in 3 and I use 3 Sentry gates. I have no problems at all. The Sentry are the very best!!!
One thing I should add. Once setup for your particular rig you can leave it alone. But before I do a tune you reset the decay knob with a minor tweak to just get the right perfection for the tune I'm doing and the pedals I have selected. I can tighten up parts of tune like when playing chords for backing a vocal when I use a medium gain OD. It makes all the parts I play come off like the sound you hear on recordings where the engineer has cleaned up all the slop. I couldn't live without them. Without them the overall sound sounds crude and amateur.
my gosh ! that tone with the P-90 thru the tube screamer, TB, and big sky ,just great .
Hey Daniel and Mick, the TC gate is probably the worst gate ever to take as an example. And you’re right Mick noticing a difference in loosing frequencies, when turned on. It’s a shame you didn’t have the ISP G-string, because it is by far the best gate pedal on the market.
Bought your pedal, I use it with my Friedman BE 100 amp. Truly an amazing sound. I know that has nothing to do with the context of this show I had to give a shout-out. After chasing a sound I’m 100% happy with for 35 years the search is over.
Wow! Thanks Kevin. Whatever you have, we’re just glad you’re inspired by the sound. That’s all that matters!
I've been wanting an independent video on this subject for so long, thank you guys so much for giving me the info I need so I know what do to when I look for pedals for my dream board
Great show as always! Just wanted to share a signal path that served me wonders as a someone who uses gain pedals as well as heavy amp gain.
Guitar->tube screamer -> OCD -> Input of NS2-> Send of NS2 into input of amp -> send of amp -> GE7 -> return of NS2. And by using it all with a switcher I can get rid of the NS2 when I'm playing clean.
I am always amazed as to how you guys take what seems to be a simple pedal, into a science experiment, AND have it all make perfect sense. I have a whole new respect for power isolation and when to use a gate (even if the hiss got really grating at times - lol). And one thought, might be good to put a cabling graphic up when talking signal chain. I'm not sure I get how it was setup, but would be nice to see it visually. Thanks guys!
24:20 - noise cancelling single coils. Just last year I bought a new Strat. Tried an Eric Clapton, and to ME it didn't sound like a Strat should. I admit that Eric made it sound ok, but it wasn't for me. I went with an American Professional instead with the new Shaw V-mod pickups and I couldn't be happier.
I'm happy for Bea to become That Pedal Show's resident Djent/Prog expert.
Top notch vid, I as a metal guitarist have been Ummming over the sentry gate pedal for at least a year as mine only cuts the obvious sound and therefore ruining attack and tone and this has helped me decide to take that plunge and just from watching this vid I've confirmed what my main signal issues are...just the kind of info I've needed recently so this vid was a treat!
I always wear a tinfoil hat when I play guitar. Perfect for that electromagnetic interference.
This is the correct answer.
Saved my time on this video. Id rather buy a noise supressor than watch this hour long video :D
Ok chuck mcgill
Really helpful advice here. As a Worship guitarist I’ve struggled keeping the noise down with drive pedals / single coil hum but then had issues when doing volume swells where the first part of the note is lost... sort of have a love/hate relationship with noise gates etc and as my playing has progressed I’ve also come to the realisation that without is better and knock the volume off when not playing! So glad you guys are on this same wavelength! I guess I’ve learnt a lot from you guys over the episodes! Thanks
Great show (again). Thanks.
Humble request here please: Might you be able to put up on screen a "napkin-sketch" of the signal chain/path at the end of each vid.?
I know there's a lot of the G2 wizardry going on, but when Dan said the guitar goes into the NS, is that direct and then the out of the NS goes into G2? Or is there a loop out from the G2 going into the NS which then does a merry dance around any number of combinations of loop/pedals then split into humdingers then back to the input of amp(s) then... etc. For me a very basic sketch would be most useful in the learning curve...
Thanks again.
Great as always guys. I think a correlation can be drawn between noise gates and compressors in so much as they both utilize thresholds to deal with both wanted and unwanted signals. Both have trade offs as one finds the balance between squashing the signal and loss of tone.
Bravo Dan. I love when you guys do this type of video. Very very useful and educational. I know a little bit more now than I did an hour ago.
I can NOT thank you guys enough for the amount of info shared in this medium format. VCPI episode and this made me feel like I went to audio engineering school for rockers. Absolutely brilliant! I will have to live with that single coil hum, it’s just that sound. Tone chasing is a never ending quest.
Great episode! I was using an ISP decimator g string and it worked great for some time. But once I discovered my power supplies were causing proximity noise I replaced those and my rig was quiet as a mouse.
Hooray. :0)
The Stone Deaf Noise Reaper is a good option if you're in the UK. No noticeable difference from the Zuul or ISP Decimator. All three were keyed from sidechain in my comparisons
I used to need a noise gate....isolated power from gig rig and a G2 has made me forget all about that 🤙
Great video! I had a pocket watch when I was in high school. I remember hearing a beep every second (literally) when I stood with my guitar. Come to find out that the pocket watch was doing something to the signal through the volume pots. Super weird. Love your videos!!
16:46 Mick demonstrates how the light saber sound was achieved
Great show as always, guys.
I have a note for you on the difference between suppressors and gates. Dan rightly described the way a gate works: kills all signal below the threshold. A suppressor works a bit differently. It's kind of like the opposite of a compressor. A suppressor uses gain reduction to lower the noise floor. Like a compressor, you set a threshold. But like a gate, the gain reduction is applied to signals below the threshold. A typical suppressor applies between 20 and 80 dB of gain reduction below the threshold. The gain reduction is full frequency, though. The operation is just less brutal than a gate. Because of the way a suppressor operates, some people find them to sound more natural.
Btw, LOVED the Slayer nod at the end. Totally was not expecting that.
I love how natural and how unforced these guys act, it just makes the viewing experience . It’s so much nicer over the usual shouty delivery of other content creators
William Campbell I like the sarcasm, however I don’t think you understood my point.
What I mean is that they don’t look like they put on some false persona i.e: they don’t act overly enthusiastic, shout lots and attempt to force comedy nor do they actively make out like everything they try is the best thing since sliced bread.
William Campbell sorry for taking your message too literally, it can be difficult to understand the tone of message over text 😁
Thank the good lord for That Pedal Show. I've been using the Sentry for over a year and still had a bit of noise (not much) from the high gain channel. I finally get around to watching this video. It's simple. Just run the send and returns through the fx loop. Problem solved. I had no idea. Thanks guys. SLAAAYEEEERRRR \m/
Great episode. Sometimes I watch tps just for fun, sometimes it’s to solve a problem with my guitar tone. Today was the later, and I’m glad I did. I need to tame down the noise from my combination of boost and fuzz. I’m not a super high-gainer, but I like being able to roll my guitar volume knob to get anything from thick fuzzy goodness to chimey OD. The Land Devices harmonic percolator is perfect for that, but especially with my always on dirtyish boost in front of it, the noise is massive (even with an isolated power supply, MXR Iso-Brick)!
Hey guys. Cheers from the left coast and the people’s republic of Portland. Just a quick note of thanks. I’ve been watching for about a year now since I started a pedal board project. Your insights have been invaluable. Of all the guitar gear videos out there I like you guys the most. I especially like the look of shear ecstasy on Dan’s face when he gets a great sound. Keep up the great work.
Ah, cheers H, that’s great. You’re so welcome
I find the 1 spot pro 7 to be a great power supply, I've never had noise issues using it.
Noise gate/suppressor is a valuable tool to have on gigs; it can save a gig from noise caused by bad electricity at ”not so great” venues/bars or some random noise from pedalboard (noise that isn’t normally there).
It's like, Dan shows his metal/shred roots once in a while and he's at home. He does the blues kind of stuff and stumbles because it's not his thing. Just shred Dan, SHRED AWAY.
Mick, you can chug decently too tho
what a great and helpful video - now I immediately will go down to my basement music room, put a sign on the door "Bucking Hum Palace", use candles instead of electric lights and re-cable my pedalboard :-D
Still saving for the whole G2 system for a big board however at the moment my small gig board, used all the time, uses a 1 spot daisy to power a D+M and a keeley comp only, then i have an HX FX and use its included supply...i also have a 1 spot cs12 brick on my medium board, its great...great episode guys!
Mike Nappi +1 for the CS12, superb power supply
I agree, I have one and it's great, but still doesn't have enough connectors. There are never enough!
That's why I use two bricks and two separate 9v adapters. C'est la vie.
I use the ISP decimator ll when I have to and it sounds great, no tone suckage at all and it also doesn't kill the sustain at all. Best noise suppressor I have ever used. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, J.S. nothing to do with wiring or power supply.
i know it seems silly. but please do a video on tuners... there an essential. and ive always wondered why you have the di'addario or the strobe? please do one. everyone i know wants it ;')
Daniel Harper big issue with tuners is always how easy they are to read in bright sunlight. So, outside broadcast needed for That Tuner Episode. Before the British summer ends. This weekend really...
Ooooookay. We use the D’Addario because it works and they sent it to us. Nice and bright, big display. I use the TU-3s, Mick here. Dan uses the Sonic Research jobbe. Very personal decision. Cheers!
Basically get a Korg or Boss... Done. - I've had the TU-2 for over maybe 15 years, still working despited being stomped on very regularly. - The only reason I'd want a different one is the looks and design and perhaps newer ones would respond a little quicker. But every time I just kinda shrug and don't bother replacing it, cause it's still like new and doing nothing wrong actually.
keep in mind that having a meter that shows how many cents off-pitch a note is can be crucial for some musicians picky about intonation/temperment. Check out guitarist James Taylor's youtube video on how he tunes his guitar.
Honestly I can't hear the difference when I follow his oddly specific instruction vs standard tuning. Some people have 8 strings with a fanned fretboard, and the advice may not apply to them. Others rely on a trem/whammy to fine tune each note they play and DGAF about tuning.
@@ThatPedalShow two things in observation here. 1 being that the lights interfering with lights etc. I'd recommend getting your guitars shielded as it will help reduce noise
This was the best episode! most in depth about a subject we all most go through NOISE.
Thanks guys!
Saw Radiohead last night for the first time. Dan, beautiful work on Ed’s board. The sounds manifesting were otherworldly. That is all.
Ah, cheers mate :)
Just the episode I needed. I watched the VCPI ep ages ago, and bought a MXR ISO brick, plugged in...and got noise. All making sense now. Cheers guys!
Adam F
Could you elaborate a bit please? I have a G2, isolated supply but I'm still trying to eliminate a bit of noise. Might be the grail but you never know. Cheers
Hey Mark, I was referring to how this ep of TPS raised my awareness of the electromagnetic interference that single coil pick ups, pick up and distinguishing this from noise coming from the pedal and amp set up when the guitar is not in the loop or turned down. Further, how different solutions are needed in each case. I was disappointed that buying an isolated supply (after watching the VCPI ep) didn't really reduce the noise. I know now that its only one piece of the puzzle. I reckon you can get on top of noise issues between the VCPI and the Be quiet, Hum Gates and suppressors episodes. Best of luck with it mate!
Adam F
Appreciate the rapid response dude, thank you.
I’m sure this will be a useful episode for a lot of people. Personally I find the hum of single coils and noise from a dimed fuzz rather reassuring that everything is about to sound glorious😄
I’m 100 per cent with you. Mick here.
absolutely yes
This is the proper way o' things. ✊🏼
That Pedal Show I have an AC30 with only the one pedal (Wampler Plexi Drive) and for some reason when I plug it in via amp and guitar, it makes a lot of noise. Is this because the power adapter I use to power the pedal is terrible?
George Richards
It could be. Make sure what you use is the proper volts and ma(milliamps) for the best result.
Does your Vox have a Bright, or second channel, that gets more of the noise? Because your using a Marshall in a box style pedal, with your Vox, so you want to have your amp set right as well.
Wampler will answer questions on his channel quite often, maybe email him. It doesn't hurt to try.
Did you see the episode the boys did on Fuzz/distortion with Vox amps? It's a good one you might find interesting, if you haven't already.
Loved your approach to this complex topic about noise - you guys are always teaching me new things - nicely done! I just started using a TC Sentry for my P90 LP when pulling high gain out of my Marshall amp. Easy to switch the Sentry off when the gain is dialed back and its not needed. I just run it in the effects loop, but I will have to try the setup you used today. That Boss noise suppressor did a nice job as well ... hmmm. Loved that P90 guitar Mick! The creamy tones you pulled out of that guitar were amazing! 60 cycle hum is something to be embraced, not feared :)
It wasn't your imagination -- I've heard that "weird phasing sound" with all TC products I've ever tried, Spark boost excepted. Something about their A/D conversion, I reckon.
Never did get on with TC so maybe that's why
Still a helpful video today! I switched from a daisy chain pedal power cable to individual cables and now only need the noise suppression if I turn on two distortion pedals at the same time. Thanks guys!
Hooray!
Great show gents. Loved the Slayer!
Awesome show today. There's guys out there who use a lot of gain from their amp, in heavy bands like I do, yet use vintage guitars and still love their pedals and like to straddle the world of metal and bluesier noodlings at the same time. Noise suppressors are essential and you covered the topic brilliantly. Thumbs up.
I love how Dan is trying to make a serious point *Mick reaches over and drinks out of comically large water bottle* actually though. That thing must be a half gallon of water! Hydration = Tone
Very interesting!
It’s obvious that you are not hi gain guys 😊
In taking the debate forward:
- Daisy-chain is not bad when the setup contains only a few analog pedals. Digital pedals consume (a lot) more current. One exception: germanium fuzz pedals; these pedals use pnp transistors and connect the + of the power supply to the chassis of the pedal. The power supply of the germanium fuzz pedal must be or insulated or separated. One good method is the use of a battery for that pedal only. The easiest and cost-effective solution is to separate digital and analog power supply and use a rechargeable battery for germanium fuzz.
- From my experience in electronic, every noise suppressor pedal are noise gate. They are all working the same way with a VCA controlled like an expander whatever they call themselves. Non-time dependent noise reduction are plugin, not available in pedal format. It’s only my experience, if someone know such a pedal, I’d be very interested to know it.
That you guys
Dan, it’s not Red, but i have to say I am liking butters more and more...
Thank you for differentiating between the different types of noise. I once played a gig with a DanElectro Wild Thing Baritone and had TERRIBLE 60-cycle hum...with no gain. Just me, my Old School Tremolo and my BDRI. I was trying to play something sweet and had to stand sideways the entire song. Thank you for backing up my theory that no equipment will truly solve that problem. I've seen so many threads where someone complains about that noise and everyone recommends all of this gear for clean power, isolation, noise suppression...understand the problem before you recommend a solution, people!!!
Any chance of a video on shielding? I know its a hot subject but I would really like get your opinions on shielding in your usual thorough manner.
It’s not something either of us do, at all. So - Mick here - I don’t anything about it. Maybe Dan does?
Shielding what? Is that when they place foil under the caps and pickups?
Yeah, gluing foil or spraying metal paint into the guitar cavities to theoretically create a Faraday cage that blocks RF...which after googling I think might be hogwash
I did some googling and I have concluded that shielding doesn't do anything either way...I withdraw my video request
Shielding does make a difference, and does reduce hum. Ever picked up noise from your phone being in your pocket? That would be reduced with good shielding. There is an argument it can reduce resonance in the guitar but that's on the guitar and player to decided. Here's a video which shows the difference shielding can make.
ruclips.net/video/OpPjF3NMcaU/видео.html
Another great video. Being a metal player I knew pretty much everything covered but still enjoyed it. Obviously with you not playing in that world you don't need these pedals but its not always possible to turn down the volume in fast start/stop parts & that's where gates etc are essential.
Got a D&M Drive on the weekend.
Love at first shwang. Well done
Hooray! Hope you love it!
Cool episode. What I'm unclear on is... If you want to use an NS-2 using the X cable method like you describe here, but you also use some OD and Dist pedals, AND you normally use delay and reverb in the amps loop, where does the delay and reverb go in the signal chain, and where do your dirt pedals go?
Really, really looking forward to the show where you bring Rabea on again!. Stop teasing!
The first two minutes were significant. It was evident that Dan does not normally use really high gain, and his reflex action is to turn down the guitar volume immediately after playing. Unless using really high gain a lot of the time, a noise suppressor/gate might not be the answer for everyone. I bought an NS-2, and ultimately found that I preferred either muting the guitar using the volume pot, or engaging a tuner to mute the guitar. The NS-2 does a great job when connected in X pattern, but it does affect the tone somewhat, which I did not like. Not surprising when you see how many components there are in this clever pedal. The buffered bypass circuit is simple and I was happy that did not seem to alter the tone. This video helped me identify the most significant sources of noise, which is indeed the guitar and environmental EMI. Engaging Comp, OD, Fuzz, DIST pedals individually with the guitar muted showed only moderate noise. With no pedals engaged, noise from a clean amp was negligible. This also revealed that power supply noise into buffered bypass pedals was not a problem. So it's volume pot or tuner muting for me, that still leaves some noise from downstream pedals; but I can cope with that. For really high gain users, a suppressor/gate is probably a life saver; that Sentry looks impressive.
Dan playing Slayer on a Telecaster. Pure gold.
Hello Dan & Mick; Could you please do an episode to address us folks that have two or more amps in residential setting and we need to isolate the power to the amps.
How can we do that? What methods or equipment do we need to remove the ground loop hum?
Hello! Check out our videos on using two amps / the stereo videos and anything pertaining to wet-dry. We discuss that there!
You need Jazzmasters and compare the P90 pickups with the Jazzmaster
Erjim Delos Reyes agreed
That guy on the left use a p90 and it sounds fine without noise gate
Jazzmaster pickups are very noisy. It would have been great to include them.
I can't live without it, Mick.
The noise or the gate? I can’t live without the noise. Is that what I said? It’s true!
9:30 "If you don't power your pedals right, NOTHING else matters".
Mick is so articulate on the guitar and in conversation. An Intelligent dude..
Thank you Mickey. As much as I wished it mattered one single jot in today's world. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow You're welcome bud. As always, just saying it as I see it.
30:40 Mick talking about bass there in metal, it's funny because John Petrucci said he often has the bass off on his rhythm tone, but compensates a little with a graphic eq
Oisin McPhillips unsure of that context, but Petrucci isn't what I would call metal.
stubkar ummm, what? The guitar player who is a leading figure in the prog metal scene? Not metal? What would you consider him as instead? Alternative?
petrucci isnt metal ????? whattTTttt????
I think the Petrucci quote is from dialing in his Mesa mark 2c+s. His Mark series amp has pre gain stage bass eq. so turning the bass up makes the amp flabby and farty. Thats why there is an five band graphic Eq post gain for adding in bass. this makes the bass tight and much cleaner. Petrucci has a lot of bass in his sound but it is tight and controlled.
Correct, I think he sets the preamp bass about 2 and dials in the classic Boogie V on the eq. Boogie's get flubby with too much pre-amp bass dialled in.
I have my NS-2 on top of my amp, the signal is treating the input and the loop of the amp. I use the shortest possible cables and I use a parametric eq in conjunction with the NS-2. I did all the suggested things as far as proper power and fixing the ground loop problems as well. It made a world of difference. I used 2 gates previously. Now, I just need one now. I use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to tap a signal to send to fx now. So, the amp is a master preamp and can be used dry only for wet/dry/wet.
thank fuzz it's friday!
Came here because of last week's VCQ and, man, I'm so glad I did. Learnt so much. The daisy chain is in the bin! I now have a power brick. Dan you're a legend and thanks to both of you as always 👐👊
I love my ISP Decimator II.
Evan Ward it's a decent pedal. Wish I would have known about the G-string before I picked it up, tbh. Anywhere between 12, and 1 o'clock, the decimator 2 really starts affecting tone
george adkins Not for me.
What a coincidence this video turning up this week. It just so happens that I ordered a shiny new power setup from Gigrig earlier in the week because I was suffering the exact symptoms you demonstrated here. Can’t wait to rewire the board with the generator, distributors and isolators and get it nice and quiet.
Dan and Mick haven’t heard Metal since 1986. 😂😂😂😂😉
Maybe if you bring Rabea for a Metal equivalent of this, you can get Kevin Shields and do a proper Shoegaze show.
I now have a 2nd high gain amp: EVH 5150 III EL34 50 watt. That has gobs of high gain. That amp, I have TC Electronic Iron Curtain at the input, because the fx loop is switchable I put a always on Cusack Music Boost there. I decided to put a 2nd gate after the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8. The 3rd channel which I only run at 9:15am, is slightly noisey. The post gate knocked out the remaining noise, barely need the threshold up. I use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 as a send to my stereo fx then into dual Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus devices. Sounds fantastic.
What's the steady low hum I'm hearing throughout the entire show? Really annoying after a while...
Oh, right... it was the fridge in the room next to me.
I was just sitting here thinking about that. After years of modeler amps/pedalboards and bedroom playing I’ve joined a band and bought myself a proper amp rig and have started buying pedals and I’m trying to make sense of it all, then I was watching this thinking “oh god that must be unbearable in the room” then I realized my computer, fridge, air conditioner, etc all making so much noise all the time that I’ve just grown immune to. not that I don’t feel like a noise suppressor wouldn’t help, but I guess I don’t need to go throw another $200 or so down the drain after I’ve just bought another pedal this week.
My dog is snoring
I don't use very much gain and I've solved all of my noise problems.
Power Conditioner, Isolated Power, Humbuckers and Fender Noiseless Single Coils, Quality cables, Digital Amp (Fender ToneMaster Deluxe) and overall not a ton of gain in my tone.
But I'm looking for a Gate just to clean up that tiny bit of hum coming from my old Crybaby Wah and fuzz pedals when the amp is up at gig volumes. The Signal to Noise ratio is very good, so the gate would only be there to annihilate that pesky little bit of noise.
My intention is to find a decent mini noise gate and stick it under the board as an always-on or always-off utility.
Most of the time I don't need it. But it's good to have in the chain if I end up at a loud gig in a building with a bad power situation to clean things up a little bit.
Great show. My only problem noise is the preamp on my old Boogie for some mainly acoustic type gigs. I use an NS2 rigged the same way as here with the preamp in the NS2 loop. I set the NS2 decay to minimum and the output then goes to delay, reverb and looper on the board before going to the FX return on the amp. Delay and reverb tails sound so good when not competing with background noise!
I'm a big fan noise supressors. I'm not a metal player... but use a fair bit of high gain. I just find the usual 60 cycle guitar sounds a bit yukky. I use an ISP g-string to clean it all up... lowish threshold. The send return feature is amazing.
Use all gigrig power solutions to fix digital issues.
My neighbours asked me to play them a tune, "sure, what key would you like it in?"
"Torquay." was the reply.
I live in Manchester.
i have an all battery powered pedalboard. GCB-95 Crybaby wah (crybaby front plate) -> Vintage Double Jack LPB-1 -> Black Russian Big Muff V8 (4 screws) -> Boss DD-6 -> Boss HM-2 but still get hum and sounds. Especially when the muff and hm-2 are both on. On occasion the big muff or lpb-1 will make some sort of canceled hum/distorted sound and I need to tap the chassis a few times to get it to sound right again. Any thoughts? Presently, I am eyeing a zoom ms-50g to use for its noise supressor as well as reverb sounds.
Isp decimator is great, especially to kill hum between songs
I got hooked by a Tosin Abasi Pedalboard video and got my ISP Decimator II. Never looked back.
Something I found out the hard way is when using any type of loop switcher, whether it be the Gigrig or a little single looper, cable routing matters a LOT. The cables from the send/return jacks to my pedals would act like antennas when they went anywhere near my Voodoo Labs power supplies, and I'd have to pin them in place to minimise the noise. Gain pedals were near enough unusable. Upgraded to a Truetone CS12 and the noise is gone (that noise turned out to be emissions from the toroidal transformer in the Voodoo Lab, which is not part of the Truetone's design)