For those who get really deep in this subject, know that Jobo (yeah, I was surprised) published an extensive E-6 user manual which got so far into the matter as to include chemical modifications which can be made to adjust color outcome to make any minor corrections you might want. It is/was on line a few years ago.
Thanks for this! My uncle gave me a roll of E-6. I had to send it off to a lab because I cannot process it and my local lab does not either. Great tutorial!
The Tetenal kit is much better than the Arista. In addition to being better conceived and executed, it includes the stabilizer. If I am not mistaken, Photoflow is only a surfactant. You need formalin in the final E-6 step to preserve the film, as there is no silver left after developing.
You actually need formalin in the pre bleach step, but only six bath kits include this. 3 bath kits are shortcuts and come with disadvantages, but there aren’t any suppliers of six bath kits in the US right now since Fuji stopped the 5L kit. I’m in talks with Bellini right now.
@@TheNakedPhotographer At the origin of E-6, and with its E-4 predecessor, the final bath of the official process was a stabilizer for the dyes and a surfactant. The official process may have been modified over the years, probably to accommodate automatic processing equipment. Most DIY (all 10 of us), commonly do not use a prebleach and do use a final stabilizer of formalin and Photoflow, which works fine and is cheap and easy to prepare. Personally, I just prepare it when I start a process session, since it has a short life span and does not store reliability.
You said "Ektar 100" a couple times early in the video, I'm certain you meant "Ektachrome 100" -- since Ektar is a C-41 color negative stock. Yeah, yeah, nit picks... ;) FWIW, there's no reason one couldn't use light exposure reversal, C-41 Bleach, C-41 Fixer, and C-41 Final Rinse. The color developers are slightly different, but Cinestill sells three different choices of first developer (standard, low contrast or high dynamic range, and color shift/tungsten) as well as color developer individually, so someone who already does C-41 (for instance, with Flexicolor chemistry) can get to E-6 without buying a whole kit and keep the baths separated.
I’ve had terrible results with cinestill first devs on films other than brand new e100. Slides came out with a dark blue cast over the whole roll - characteristic first developer problem.
@@aidansciortino982 Hmm. I haven't had a chance to try those yet -- so few choices left in E-6 films, and they're even more expensive than C-41 and ECN-2 materials. I've also heard of people using Dektol (at some dilution, not the usual 1+9 for film) as a first dev -- just needs to develop the exposed halide at the right rate so the layers get the right relative contrast levels.
@@SilntObsvr Like a lot of "look what I did" videos on YT, this idea of using Dektol as a 1st developer in E-6 is one of the dumbest out there. Apart from blowing out film grain and developing excess contrast, Dektol lacks the restrainer component which is needed to get solid blacks in the final image.
@@randallstewart175 I haven't done E-6 (and it's been almost fifty years since I did E-4 in high school), but I have done B&W reversal. Grain formed by the first developer has little effect on the final image, because that (whether silver or dye clouds) is formed by the second developer, starting from the halide the first developer didn't develop. In my B&W experience, using Dektol first dev actually *reduced* the appearance of grain on the Tri-X I experimented on, compared to what I'd see in negatives from the same bulk roll and in the same developer (HC-110) that I used for the second dev. My understanding is that this is because the bigger halide grains are the more sensitive and develop first; hence the reversal process selects for the finer grains in a heterodispersed emulsion. Now, about solid blacks, I'd have to partially agree; Dektol does contain some potassium bromide, a weak restrainer. When I've used it as first dev for B&W reversal, I added a little thiosulfate to clear the highlights -- which obviously also has the effect of diluting shadow density. Adding a little benzotriazole would be a reasonable option, if you have to improvised a first developer in the first place. Controlling contrast is easy -- get the first dev time right (may require multiple test runs), and developing less will also help keep those blacks black by combatting fog in the first developer.
There is also a prebleach in official E-6 process. It is a formaldehyde precursor to be formed during the bleaching, it stabilizes dyes and it has also a fungicide action. Tetenal 3-Bath includes the formaldehyde in last stabilizer bath, it is curious that Arista doesn't.
Hey. Do you do a video on printning slides? If not , do you know if theres a huge difference in filter settings and also if it needs other type colopapers ?
It needs either the Kodak R-3 process or Ilfochrome process. Both have been discontinued for decades. Some people have been trying to do reversal processes on RA-4 paper, but it’s not designed for that and gives less than ideal results.
@@TheNakedPhotographer ok. Thanks a lot! 😊 so no chrome shooting on less i have a scanner / printer which i dont have anymore… thats a shame . I didnt realize that . I will stick to c41/ra4 . Thanks again 😊🤟🏾
@@inkaststudio The problem is Photoflo working solution building up a coating on plastic reels which tends to make them stick to the film and hard to load,. Two points: (1) I've used my plastic reels to process at lot of C-41 and E-6 over more than 35 years, and I do not have this problem. From looking at many YT comments, it looks like this problem is common with Paterson reels, but not others, It may just be that Paterson reels are made out of a poor choice of materials. (2) You should use Photoflo at half the working dilution recommended. That is, if the bottle says use one ml of stock to 400ml water, make that one stock in 800 ml water. It works just as well, leaves less Photoflo to clog a reel, and saves money - a triple won.
If you use these kits, which compromise quality by combining chemical steps to make its use easier and not scare off the customers, there are a few DIY modifications you can try which may improve reliability and quality. Use a stop bath to end the first developer to rigidly control that step re time and temperature, followed by a water wash bath. Whether 6-step E-6 or 3-step kit, the first developer controls the whole result. The other chemical processes run to chemical completion, so timing is not critical so long as it is enough. Also, try a light exposure to reverse the positive image. Both official and kit formulas use a chemical component to oxidize (expose) the latent reversal image for color development. Kodak's official formula uses a chemical which is practically unavailable to home users. God only knows what kit makers like Tetenal or Arista use. What is interesting is that Kodak's official lab process for testing E-6 calls for light reversal as its standard, most reliable reversal method. (Light exposure reversal: can be done leaving film on reel, exposing reel to bulb at 1 foot or so, 250- 500 watt, for 30 seconds or so, perhaps much less but why fool around with it.) Finally, if you must use a combined blix, extend its process time and agitate the crap out of it to make sure it completes its job. The bleach part is generating fixable emulsion while the fixer is removing it at the same time. You will not exhaust the blix excessively because once it has done its job, there is no more chemical activity no matter how long you leave it in the tank. If you exhaust the blix, you are likely to end up with unfixed emulsion because it was not adequately bleached. Separate bleach and fix (like Bellini kit) is more reliable. Use a stabilizer. C-41 if necessary or make one from drugstore formalin and photoflo.
@@patrickcook3056 C-41 color negative film, yes. E-6 film. ECN-2 film. no. Another victim of the homogenization of technical information on YT now set straight. About 2003, Kodak changed the dyes is uses in its C-41 films and modified the C-41 process to match. I do not think Kodak ever publicly explained why. It's other color materials and processes were not modified. To confirm, go on-line and search out the official Kodak formulas for ECN-2, which it openly published - still requires a final stabilizer bath.
@@TheNakedPhotographer In the department of "for what it's worth", I routinely use Unicolor plastic reels to process C-41 and E-6, now some 40 years old, and I've never had Photoflo contamination issues with them. I think it's more a matter of the quality of plastic used to make the reels. I know that many Paterson tank users complain that their reels get contaminated and start jamming the film loading. I had not heard the same issue with Jobo. Also, I mix Photoflo to half the Kodak recommended working strength. That works just as well, saves on stock consumption, and may explain why I don't have this problem.
Velvia 50 is no longer available in the US due to trace amounts of some chemical which is banned here. It appears that Rollei Crossbird is still available. This is actually an E-6 film. Why it is sold for C-41 cross processing is beyond me.
Velvia 100 was discontinued, Velvia 50 is still available in 35mm and 120 only. That leaves only Velvia 50, Provia 100F, and E100 as the last three (Rollei is a maybe).
@@TheNakedPhotographer There are some conflicting reports circulating regarding Velvia 50 and 100. I had some 50 in MF on backorder with B&H for many months and they finally cancelled the backorder, citing it as no longer available. Their site is currently showing "More on the way", but that appears to have been there most of the year. If you know of anyone who has it in stock, that would be great news.
Ordered my first E6 kit earlier this week, been developing BW for a while now so this video reassures me it isn't any more difficult.
After the sad closure of Tetenal ADOX just revived this kit under the C-TEC E-6 brand.
I won't be trying this at home, but fun and instructive to see it done. Thanks!
For those who get really deep in this subject, know that Jobo (yeah, I was surprised) published an extensive E-6 user manual which got so far into the matter as to include chemical modifications which can be made to adjust color outcome to make any minor corrections you might want. It is/was on line a few years ago.
There is currently one copy on eBay. It’s priced at $250
Thanks for this! My uncle gave me a roll of E-6. I had to send it off to a lab because I cannot process it and my local lab does not either. Great tutorial!
If you try it yourself, it’s very easy
@@TheNakedPhotographer it definitely looks doable.
The Tetenal kit is much better than the Arista. In addition to being better conceived and executed, it includes the stabilizer. If I am not mistaken, Photoflow is only a surfactant. You need formalin in the final E-6 step to preserve the film, as there is no silver left after developing.
You actually need formalin in the pre bleach step, but only six bath kits include this. 3 bath kits are shortcuts and come with disadvantages, but there aren’t any suppliers of six bath kits in the US right now since Fuji stopped the 5L kit. I’m in talks with Bellini right now.
@@TheNakedPhotographer At the origin of E-6, and with its E-4 predecessor, the final bath of the official process was a stabilizer for the dyes and a surfactant. The official process may have been modified over the years, probably to accommodate automatic processing equipment. Most DIY (all 10 of us), commonly do not use a prebleach and do use a final stabilizer of formalin and Photoflow, which works fine and is cheap and easy to prepare. Personally, I just prepare it when I start a process session, since it has a short life span and does not store reliability.
You said "Ektar 100" a couple times early in the video, I'm certain you meant "Ektachrome 100" -- since Ektar is a C-41 color negative stock. Yeah, yeah, nit picks... ;)
FWIW, there's no reason one couldn't use light exposure reversal, C-41 Bleach, C-41 Fixer, and C-41 Final Rinse. The color developers are slightly different, but Cinestill sells three different choices of first developer (standard, low contrast or high dynamic range, and color shift/tungsten) as well as color developer individually, so someone who already does C-41 (for instance, with Flexicolor chemistry) can get to E-6 without buying a whole kit and keep the baths separated.
Yes, Ektachrome E100
I’ve had terrible results with cinestill first devs on films other than brand new e100. Slides came out with a dark blue cast over the whole roll - characteristic first developer problem.
@@aidansciortino982 Hmm. I haven't had a chance to try those yet -- so few choices left in E-6 films, and they're even more expensive than C-41 and ECN-2 materials. I've also heard of people using Dektol (at some dilution, not the usual 1+9 for film) as a first dev -- just needs to develop the exposed halide at the right rate so the layers get the right relative contrast levels.
@@SilntObsvr Like a lot of "look what I did" videos on YT, this idea of using Dektol as a 1st developer in E-6 is one of the dumbest out there. Apart from blowing out film grain and developing excess contrast, Dektol lacks the restrainer component which is needed to get solid blacks in the final image.
@@randallstewart175 I haven't done E-6 (and it's been almost fifty years since I did E-4 in high school), but I have done B&W reversal. Grain formed by the first developer has little effect on the final image, because that (whether silver or dye clouds) is formed by the second developer, starting from the halide the first developer didn't develop. In my B&W experience, using Dektol first dev actually *reduced* the appearance of grain on the Tri-X I experimented on, compared to what I'd see in negatives from the same bulk roll and in the same developer (HC-110) that I used for the second dev. My understanding is that this is because the bigger halide grains are the more sensitive and develop first; hence the reversal process selects for the finer grains in a heterodispersed emulsion.
Now, about solid blacks, I'd have to partially agree; Dektol does contain some potassium bromide, a weak restrainer. When I've used it as first dev for B&W reversal, I added a little thiosulfate to clear the highlights -- which obviously also has the effect of diluting shadow density. Adding a little benzotriazole would be a reasonable option, if you have to improvised a first developer in the first place. Controlling contrast is easy -- get the first dev time right (may require multiple test runs), and developing less will also help keep those blacks black by combatting fog in the first developer.
There is also a prebleach in official E-6 process. It is a formaldehyde precursor to be formed during the bleaching, it stabilizes dyes and it has also a fungicide action. Tetenal 3-Bath includes the formaldehyde in last stabilizer bath, it is curious that Arista doesn't.
It’s possible it is in the blix of this kit as that is the last step before washing.
Awesome! also could you do RA4 reversal for enlarging positive?
I am so sadly dissapointed ! :D No I am not. Happy new year, stay healthy and thanks for your permanent effort educating us!
Well done. I never did it like this before and use a Jobo CPA machine which sadly is on it’s last legs.
Mine too. And I don’t use it enough to justify buying a new one.
@@TheNakedPhotographer yeah new ones are quite expensive. So far I used Tetenal and I was happy with that. Sad that there is no Cibachrome available😊
No stabilizer required? 🤔
Hey. Do you do a video on printning slides? If not , do you know if theres a huge difference in filter settings and also if it needs other type colopapers ?
It needs either the Kodak R-3 process or Ilfochrome process. Both have been discontinued for decades. Some people have been trying to do reversal processes on RA-4 paper, but it’s not designed for that and gives less than ideal results.
@@TheNakedPhotographer ok. Thanks a lot! 😊 so no chrome shooting on less i have a scanner / printer which i dont have anymore… thats a shame . I didnt realize that . I will stick to c41/ra4 . Thanks again 😊🤟🏾
Cinestill does offer a kit.
Apparently with a choice of three different first developers.
@@TheNakedPhotographer would love to see you compare the D9 developer to other options. It seems really interesting.
Thanks for the tutorial. Is there a reason why you use Photo Flo in a separate tank?
Photo Flo tends to build up a plasticky film on plastic tanks. It will on stainless as well, but it’s easier to clean off
@@TheNakedPhotographer Ok, great to know! Thanks for the info 😉
@@inkaststudio The problem is Photoflo working solution building up a coating on plastic reels which tends to make them stick to the film and hard to load,. Two points: (1) I've used my plastic reels to process at lot of C-41 and E-6 over more than 35 years, and I do not have this problem. From looking at many YT comments, it looks like this problem is common with Paterson reels, but not others, It may just be that Paterson reels are made out of a poor choice of materials. (2) You should use Photoflo at half the working dilution recommended. That is, if the bottle says use one ml of stock to 400ml water, make that one stock in 800 ml water. It works just as well, leaves less Photoflo to clog a reel, and saves money - a triple won.
@@randallstewart175 Awesome advice! Thanks Randall
If you use these kits, which compromise quality by combining chemical steps to make its use easier and not scare off the customers, there are a few DIY modifications you can try which may improve reliability and quality. Use a stop bath to end the first developer to rigidly control that step re time and temperature, followed by a water wash bath. Whether 6-step E-6 or 3-step kit, the first developer controls the whole result. The other chemical processes run to chemical completion, so timing is not critical so long as it is enough. Also, try a light exposure to reverse the positive image. Both official and kit formulas use a chemical component to oxidize (expose) the latent reversal image for color development. Kodak's official formula uses a chemical which is practically unavailable to home users. God only knows what kit makers like Tetenal or Arista use. What is interesting is that Kodak's official lab process for testing E-6 calls for light reversal as its standard, most reliable reversal method. (Light exposure reversal: can be done leaving film on reel, exposing reel to bulb at 1 foot or so, 250- 500 watt, for 30 seconds or so, perhaps much less but why fool around with it.) Finally, if you must use a combined blix, extend its process time and agitate the crap out of it to make sure it completes its job. The bleach part is generating fixable emulsion while the fixer is removing it at the same time. You will not exhaust the blix excessively because once it has done its job, there is no more chemical activity no matter how long you leave it in the tank. If you exhaust the blix, you are likely to end up with unfixed emulsion because it was not adequately bleached. Separate bleach and fix (like Bellini kit) is more reliable. Use a stabilizer. C-41 if necessary or make one from drugstore formalin and photoflo.
Stabilizer has not been necessary for any modern film in the past 20 years.
@@patrickcook3056 C-41 color negative film, yes. E-6 film. ECN-2 film. no. Another victim of the homogenization of technical information on YT now set straight. About 2003, Kodak changed the dyes is uses in its C-41 films and modified the C-41 process to match. I do not think Kodak ever publicly explained why. It's other color materials and processes were not modified. To confirm, go on-line and search out the official Kodak formulas for ECN-2, which it openly published - still requires a final stabilizer bath.
Try velvia 50 next
Who knows when it will be in stock again
Why you do not use kodak flo inside jobo tank? Thanks!
It’s really hard to wash off plastic, but stainless steel is easier to clean from it
@@TheNakedPhotographer In the department of "for what it's worth", I routinely use Unicolor plastic reels to process C-41 and E-6, now some 40 years old, and I've never had Photoflo contamination issues with them. I think it's more a matter of the quality of plastic used to make the reels. I know that many Paterson tank users complain that their reels get contaminated and start jamming the film loading. I had not heard the same issue with Jobo. Also, I mix Photoflo to half the Kodak recommended working strength. That works just as well, saves on stock consumption, and may explain why I don't have this problem.
Velvia 50 is no longer available in the US due to trace amounts of some chemical which is banned here. It appears that Rollei Crossbird is still available. This is actually an E-6 film. Why it is sold for C-41 cross processing is beyond me.
Velvia 100 was discontinued, Velvia 50 is still available in 35mm and 120 only. That leaves only Velvia 50, Provia 100F, and E100 as the last three (Rollei is a maybe).
@@TheNakedPhotographer There are some conflicting reports circulating regarding Velvia 50 and 100. I had some 50 in MF on backorder with B&H for many months and they finally cancelled the backorder, citing it as no longer available. Their site is currently showing "More on the way", but that appears to have been there most of the year. If you know of anyone who has it in stock, that would be great news.
Try Central Camera in Chicago.
0:38 Kodak Ektachrome 100, not Ektar 100
!!!!!!!!