It is indeed the smallest. I don't think any camera can touch the Sigma fp for that title, but don't think it's mainstream enough to be considered for purchase for many people.
@@camera.mellow You mean not as good click bait for your title... Seriously, Sigma FP still holds this title years later and you just sound uneducated by trying to justify your choices here.
Thanks so much for actually comparing the size of the packages respectively ! Everyone seems to forget the impact of the lenses. I think if you do more content like this comparing “real world” factors you’ll do great! This video will definitely influence my decision on buying one of these
Thank you! I hope to do more of these "real world" comparisons. There are so many reviews out there for these cameras, but it's really hard to find one that that put them up side by side and do a show and tell. No fancy lighting and effects, no amazing travel photos that I'll never be able to take, no reading off specs sheets. Just pure side by side look & feel video :)
Thank you for this comparison. I shoot with Sony and thought about getting the S9 for something "smaller" to use as an everyday camera. After seeing this, I think it'd make a lot more sense to get the A7Cii or A7CR.
Absolutely! I'm glad to be of some help :) I was really caught off guard by the size when I got the S9 myself. I believed the hype on RUclips about how tiny the camera was, then I put it next to my A7C II with some lenses on, and what a surprise haha.
Very interesting cool dude. I have the A7CII and was tempted by the Lumix S9 for the stabilisation, but it looks like the pro's of the A7CII outweigh the small benefits of the S9. I still can't understand why they didn't release this with a raft of smaller lens.
Thank you, I'm glad it helped you in some way 😁 I'll be uploading a A7C II vs. S9 Image Stabilization comparison video in the next few days. It isn't much, but I shot a few static & walking footages with both cameras. It's interesting to see how much better the S9 is. 😆
This is the video that I was looking for! When you make your next comparison video, could you please include your review on photo&video transfer experience? I assume it's much easier to transfer photos from S9 to a phone but not sure about A7C II
I could definitely do that next time 😀 I can tell you from experience that it is indeed easier to transfer photos from S9 to my phone than the A7C II, mostly because of the Lumix Lab app. The Sony app isn't up to par. The only negative thing that I've been experiencing using the Lumix app so far is some occasional jpeg corruption. I don't know what's causing it, but maybe 1 out of 20 pics would sometimes have either black bars or simply cut in the middle.
With primes, they are about the same size. But with zooms, it's not even comparable. S9 is a lot bigger and heavier, and harder to handle because it's front heavy with no grip.. On top of that, no EVF, mechanical shutter, less physical controls, no grip, etc... and very scarce lens collection.. The only saving grace is the IBIS really, and it's the only thing that's keeping me from selling it at the moment.
@@camera.mellow Right. I was sure to get S9 last week until I tried it in-store, and then cancelled as I couldn’t feel good ergonomic when it paired with lenses there. I even compared with Nikon Zf which is bigger and heavier but somehow the Zf felt much better in my hands. So I am still holding on for now, the biggest point on S9 for me is the real time LUTs, which would simplify my workflow.
@@Azra-z7c Before buying the S9, the ergonomics didn't really factor into my decision, but now that I have it, it's the biggest sticking point for me. I just don't enjoy shooting photos with it. The poor handling and the lack of control dials.. For me, the realtime LUT isn't that much of a selling point as my main camera is a Fujifilm X-H2S. I've always had realtime-LUT like feature with the Fuji film simulation anyways. Even this video was shot with the Fuji film-simulation (Negative Standard) baked in. I didn't do any kind of post color grading.
@@camera.mellow I have X-Pro 2 now, but have been using it less and less these days as I am too lazy to bring it as every day carry. Been thinking to replace it with a smaller camera hence the thought of S9.
@@Azra-z7c I used to own a X-Pro 3 + 27mm f2.8, and that combination is definitely smaller than any AF lens combination that you can put together with the S9. But, I sold X-Pro 3 because I really disliked the hidden screen. I liked it for exactly a week, but then it got really annoying having to flip down the screen haha 😆 I just want an AF pancake lens for the S9 even if it's like f5.6 or something. Just something that would make the S9 small enough fit for my winter jackets. Maybe I should just try the 26mm f8 manual focus lens...
I know it's a bit more expensive, but the a7c ii is just so perfect for most people. Oh, where do I start, I bought it after a year of saving up a little (helps reducing my alcohol abuse as well lmao) and pair it up with the Sigma 50mm f2 contemporary. It's just the perfect pair when it comes to looks and utility. The battery is so insanely huge from the ones I'm used to at the apsc experience, and I never run out of juice even after a full day (and night) of casual shooting. The photos and videos are amazing enough and that autofocus doesn't miss a thing. I'm not a professional at all, but the upgrade from my a6400 makes it look that much more professional. It's just so versatile. BUT! Here's a big BUT- I'm so so so in love with the color tones from the lumix and I'd still recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone who's not brand loyal or just starting out the full frame journey. The lumix will do everything you need it to do and for a lot less, so bargain! I feel these are one of the two best options available for casual photographers and travellers who wants to carry a lighter package. I honestly think you cannot go wrong with either. Pick the a7c ii if you have the budget without a second thought, because you have an even bigger range of lens ecosystem available, but if you're a bit financially restraint, you'll be just as happy with the S9, no questions.
I believe the A7C is both shorter in height and width, it is only becasue of the grip that it has a higher depth, but makes for better use of battery storage and allows the mount to be more central giving you an EVF to boot.
I just bought the hated Panasonic 26mm f8 manual focus lens for the S9, and how I miss the EVF. It's so difficult to nail the focus on the screen even with the focus peaking. Even though A7C II's EVF is the worst EVF I've ever used, it's still something that the S9 is solely missing.
@@camera.mellow Totally agree. It is a tough loss for me. I use an EM-5 MkIII and the evf has just improved my photography experience and quality of shots massively. An S9 mk2 with an EVF might be a more enticing camera.
I'm just a casual in the photography world. I'm upgrading from a dated but awesome Panasonic GH1. I think the Sony is probably a better all around camera but the Lumix Lab app would make sharing soooo much easier. I'm lazy and I imagine without a quick and easy way to get images to my phone they will never get shared.
Lumix S9 definitely suits your shooting style better I think. I don't like editing my photos either, and while I like the experience of shooting photos with Sony A7C II better, I find that I get quite a bit more usable photos straight out of camera from the S9.
So what you're telling me is the A7C is what the S9 should've been? I really really want to love the S9 because I'm invested in L-mount, but I can't with the lack of a grip or EVF. The camera feels honestly to me like an after thought and an excess of S5ii sensors that needed bodies.
A7C II body design + S9 internals would've been amazing. Just too many compromises were made for very little gain on the S9. Removing EVF, mechanical shutter, larger grip & 2x extra dials probably helped in shaving off like less than 20% of overall size and weight, and a couple of hundred bucks from the final price as well. I would gladly pay $200 more for those features, and the 20% in size difference between the S9 and A7C II is just basically the grip anyway.
@@camera.mellow I already have an S5ii that I absolutely adore. Really wish they had basically done an EVF and grip S9 because I would’ve just traded for the different form factor.
Eh it has its trade offs. The grip on the a7c is hideous, which is what happened when Lumix got backlash for including the beefy one on the gx8. People hate on the Lumix but fail to recognize full frame is fairly new to them. It'll take time to build the ecosystem but it's coming
@@nickguzman1734 I have an S5ii and love it I’m more disappointed that the S9 seems extremely half baked. I recently tested one at a camera store and it’s just not a fun camera whatsoever to handle or use.
Yeah that's true, it's quite a bit more expensive and Panasonic seems to get discounted more than Sony in the long run, so the difference could run up to almost a $1000 in the end.
Oh, right. Sigma FP!! I completely forgot about that. I don't think it's mainstream enough for people to really consider it as their buying option though. It didn't even occur to me that Sigma FP still existed haha.
@@camera.mellowthere was the upgraded fpL a 60+MP monster with PD AF. I have an fp, fpL, S5 and a7cr.. they each have different uses for me. The a7cr is the most usable sony I have ever used. I still don't know if I will replace the fpL+evf with the a7cr.. I love the sigma L mount lens so much. The S5 is good so i exoect the S9 to be good too. At this point there are no wrong choices, just better choices.
@@camera.mellow I mean Sigma themselves I feel forgot about their camera division and doesn't really put efforts in marketing the camera or ensuring availablity. The Lumix S9 could be considered rightfully as the Fp2 ! Addressing most the issues such as Af , IBIS , better battery life, readout speed and finally the PRICE . Now if they could bring out compact lenses with VR , then it's fair say sony got a proper competition!
@@flagger2020the fpl has only electronic shutter and a flash max speed synch of 1/15, the sensor readout speeds are extremely slow. Only useful for things that dont move at all. I dont like sony but the a7c2 is really a great small camera no comparison with anything else. Plus the external evf makes the fpl as big or bigger than the a7c2.
I have one and actually like it not having a grip. But obviously it’s a personal thing. Also worth noting on the zoom front there is the new pancake zoom coming from lumix too.
I'm really looking forward to the 18-40mm pancake zoom :) It really should've been released along with the S9, but I'm glad that there's at least something on the horizon.
Sony A7CII is clearly the superior camera here with the inclusion of EVF. Panasonic should have at least matched Sony in features considering Sony 7C existed for 4-5 years now.
Yup. EVF is really a deal breaker for a lot of people. I'm sure some people would say that S9's main competition is ZV-E1, but I think the intended target buyer demographic is actually A7CII and X100VI.
The S9 is a strange one for sure, and the launch lens is a mystery. Since it's still sort of aiming at vloggers even the sigma 17mmm f4 would have been a better pair; wider, fast enough for purpose, compact. There's always manual focus glass for compactness; if something like the TTArtisan 50mm F2 becomes available in L, or the 7artisans 35mm F1.4 Mark Ⅱ would pair nicely with either of these camera. I would say that many people who are open to adapted legacy glass or the newer mirrorless manual lenses are in the "budget full-frame" category and would like the creativity of LUTs, but the S9 is short a dial or two and a viewfinder to really maximize a "manual photography" experience.
I think the S9's strange launch has been caused by a miss-direction in their marketing strategy. It's as if Panasonic shoved a video camera into a rangefinder-like photo body, but then they realized that they have to keep the size down, so they removed all the photo-centric features like EVF, mechanical shutter, and manual control dials. It wants to be a photo camera, but a video camera is what it really is at its core. As you've pointed out, the S9 is an EVF and a few dials away from a good "manual photography" experience. Because its small rangefinder-esque body design just screams for manual lenses, so the lack of an EVF, and poor control schemes are just that much more frustrating.
I’m glad you liked it :) I have gear-envy for shiny new cameras all the time, but making this video made me realize how little use I make of my current gears.
Panasonic made a mistake with the S9, instead they should've made a G model. A new GX or GM. What you call a "pancake lens" seems huge. That's the disadvantage of FF. When Pany have the know how to make really small cameras, why go FF? Sony did a better job. If i would go FF, I would seriously consider the A7C line.
The "Pancake lens" is indeed huge. It's really not a pancake, but it's the only thing they got. Canon and Nikon have true pancake lenses for their FF though. Their pancake lenses are actually half the size of what I've shown in this video,, and they are almost as small as some crop sensor lenses. But I do agree that Panasonic made a mistake with the S9. If they were going to keep the size down, the lens size should've been their priority.. Like going with a G model, or just making a true pancake lens.
I own the s5ii and the a7cr. I use the a7cr for traveling abroad but would never sell the lumix. The Luts feature and sturdier body makes for a pretty epic video camera
@ ya I completely agree. I just don’t do a lot of videography anymore. Mainly photos and family video stuff which my phone works well for. I do love the s5iix. So comfortable in the hand and awesome aesthetics! I hate to return but cants justify 6k in gear as a hobby 🤣
It's not too bad with the 26mm f/8 MF pancake lens, but anything other than that, you need a minimum Smallrig grip. Even then, the vanilla X-T5 has a better grip than the S9 + Smallrig grip.
Dont care much about the grip. Handling it 1 handed is kinda shaky, so I always support it by the left hand. i'll keep a lanyard on it anyways if I'm worried about it slipping.
Actually the S9 is disappointing in comparison to the Sony A7C II. No mechanical shutter, no EVF and only size "disadvantage" of the Sony is the built in grip...
Yeah, as you can see from the video, the only size difference is literally the grip. It’s amazing how so many RUclipsrs just go on and on about how tiny the S9 is when you just put it next to one of the most popular mirrorless out there A7C II, and it’s barely smaller, or even bigger if you put any AF lens on. It just makes you wonder why.
I haven't really thought of using APSC lenses, but it's worth looking into since A7C II is 33 megapixels I think. Thanks for the suggestion. There just seems to be so many more lens choices for Sony.
@@camera.mellow yes, you'll lose some resolution but still end up with around 15mp. it's still good enough. it'll be a really small setup, almost pocketable, i think, with the a7cii. only "drawback" is that lens retails for around $250 😅 a lil pricey.
Ok. But I’m not bothered with size that close in comparison. And is it more serious photographer I will two hand hold. I’d be more concerned with steel photography features forward before video. Comparing to one coming from a Leica style rangefinder bring my existing lens collection so manual focus assist is more important and adaption
My bad. >.< I have been pointed out multiple times since I published this video, haha. Sigma fp seems very niche though. Not mainstream enough to be on people's radar.
Yeah, I should've said Prime Lenses. As far as I'm aware, there are no pancake AF lenses available for either Panasonic or Sony, and these are pretty much as small as you can get with them.
Wow, it looks absolutely tiny. It's so short that It might actually be sitting flush with the grip! 🤯 Viltrox should release it for the L-Mount! I guarantee that EVERY S9 user will buy that thing. Panasonic 26mm f8 Manual-Focus vs. Viltrox 28mm f4.5 Auto-Focus. It's a no brainer.
S9 really is a video camera trapped in a photo body. It looks like a rangefinder like a Leica, or a Fujifilm body, yet its missing all the important photo body features like EVF, mechanical shutter, tilt screen, manual control dials, etc.
I think the biggest difference, comes down to the LOOK of the image. IMO, one camera has an image with a very generic / clinical look...while the other has a filmic / soulful look. And then once you decide that you don't want your camera to have that clinical look...you have to spend time at the computer, editing, doing post-work. Whereas the other camera, you do not. You can just get it in camera. I'd definitely agree w/ you about that one camera having better stabilization.. Best in the game ! (nice video man, thanks for sharing. subscribed !)
Thanks so much for your encouraging words and the sub! The realtime LUT pictures from the S9 do look really nice. I'm so accustomed to just getting good jpegs from my Fuji cameras that when I first got the S9, the LUT feature wasn't really a big selling point for me. But when I got the A7C II, I definitely started missing the ability to customize jpeg color and dynamic range outputs.
I think where this camera makes the most sense is with video. I loved the ergonomics of my Sony A7C but it felt like using a computer. The Nikon range is now arguably the most compelling all round, although they still lack some of the great features Panasonic offer such as Open Gate, Anamorphic desqueeze/IBIS, shutter angle etc.
Nikon ZF has been really tempting. I wish it was a bit smaller and lighter, but then again, I also kind of like the fact that it's just unapologetically chunky and being proud of it /w the nice metallic build and big dials, etc.
@@camera.mellow 100%! Having sold my Fujifilm it's definitely on my short list. If Nikon were to release a rangefinder body based on the SP I would buy it in a heartbeat!
Actually, Nikon Zfc II would be a very interesting camera if Nikon were to update the new version with IBIS. Nikon made only a half-hearted attempt at a retro body when they first launched the Zfc. Nikon has seen what a huge market there is for retro bodies with ZF, so it only makes sense that they'd update the much smaller crop-sensor brother.
I was actually curious about the Panasonic 28-200mm. It's almost the same size as the 20-60mm kit lens, yet the zoom range is so huge. I'm not sure if there's something similar for Sony, but yeah, if what you are looking for a compact telephoto package, S9 + 28-200mm fits the bill. It's kinda tempting because my other interest is in bird photography, and it'd make an excellent portable combo.
I would’ve turned the battery sideways in the s9 as in the a7CII just to add a mechanical shutter and a hot shoe, so we could also have a natural hand grip. All problems solved! But they didn’t 🥲
Yup, it's a real let down. I hope that they add a viewfinder in the next version, then it'd be able to really compete with the likes of X100VI for photography.
I think there's a real opportunity here for Canon here. If Nikon can pull off a comeback like this to mass market appeal with the Zf, then Canon can certainly make real waves.
You seem biased, trying to find reasons against the S9. Are you a Sony fanboy or paid by Sony ? The s9 will soon have a pancake Zoom (18-40), in camera processed handheld pixelshift, Luts, better menus, better ibis, sleeker design, better video quality… I only really miss the EFV from the a7cii. Pls get neutral… or you‘re not trustworthy
Well, I can't say that I'm not biased. Because I am, in fact, very much biased, haha :) The moment I paid $1500 for one, I immediately became a biased voice regardless of whether I like it or not. I don't think being trustworthy has anything to do with hiding your true feelings about a product for the sake of appearing to be fair. As long as I present the facts, and show people what each of the product is like side-by-side, I think the viewers can make the judgement for themselves. I think my opinion has very little impact on how the viewers see the product. I really hope the new 18-40mm lens gets released soon though. As much as I believe that A7C II is better for most people as their main camera, I still do want to keep the S9 since I'm going to use it as an everyday carry camera. The only thing that's keeping me from selling the S9 at the moment is the IBIS, and the hope of the new pancake zoom.
There is absolutely nothing in which the s9 is better, besides the image quality which is entirely subjective, and the so called in camera luts which are a gimmick.
The smallest full frame camera is still the Sigma fp / fp-l.
It is indeed the smallest. I don't think any camera can touch the Sigma fp for that title, but don't think it's mainstream enough to be considered for purchase for many people.
@@camera.mellow Not mainstream enough? Its same price as these, Same lens mount as Panasonic, and is still around.......
with a lense? rx1r ii with a lens?
Yes! Waiting for a new one hopefully 🤞
@@camera.mellow You mean not as good click bait for your title... Seriously, Sigma FP still holds this title years later and you just sound uneducated by trying to justify your choices here.
Thanks so much for actually comparing the size of the packages respectively ! Everyone seems to forget the impact of the lenses. I think if you do more content like this comparing “real world” factors you’ll do great!
This video will definitely influence my decision on buying one of these
Thank you! I hope to do more of these "real world" comparisons.
There are so many reviews out there for these cameras, but it's really hard to find one that that put them up side by side and do a show and tell. No fancy lighting and effects, no amazing travel photos that I'll never be able to take, no reading off specs sheets. Just pure side by side look & feel video :)
Thank you for this comparison. I shoot with Sony and thought about getting the S9 for something "smaller" to use as an everyday camera. After seeing this, I think it'd make a lot more sense to get the A7Cii or A7CR.
Absolutely! I'm glad to be of some help :)
I was really caught off guard by the size when I got the S9 myself. I believed the hype on RUclips about how tiny the camera was, then I put it next to my A7C II with some lenses on, and what a surprise haha.
everyday camera? a5100🤣
Very interesting cool dude. I have the A7CII and was tempted by the Lumix S9 for the stabilisation, but it looks like the pro's of the A7CII outweigh the small benefits of the S9. I still can't understand why they didn't release this with a raft of smaller lens.
Thank you, I'm glad it helped you in some way 😁
I'll be uploading a A7C II vs. S9 Image Stabilization comparison video in the next few days. It isn't much, but I shot a few static & walking footages with both cameras. It's interesting to see how much better the S9 is. 😆
Those lenses are more cupcake than pancake 😂
Lol true 😂
This is the video that I was looking for! When you make your next comparison video, could you please include your review on photo&video transfer experience? I assume it's much easier to transfer photos from S9 to a phone but not sure about A7C II
I could definitely do that next time 😀
I can tell you from experience that it is indeed easier to transfer photos from S9 to my phone than the A7C II, mostly because of the Lumix Lab app. The Sony app isn't up to par.
The only negative thing that I've been experiencing using the Lumix app so far is some occasional jpeg corruption. I don't know what's causing it, but maybe 1 out of 20 pics would sometimes have either black bars or simply cut in the middle.
Finally, thank you for this comparison! It’s becoming harder to justify S9 without good pancake lenses.
With primes, they are about the same size.
But with zooms, it's not even comparable. S9 is a lot bigger and heavier, and harder to handle because it's front heavy with no grip..
On top of that, no EVF, mechanical shutter, less physical controls, no grip, etc... and very scarce lens collection..
The only saving grace is the IBIS really, and it's the only thing that's keeping me from selling it at the moment.
@@camera.mellow Right. I was sure to get S9 last week until I tried it in-store, and then cancelled as I couldn’t feel good ergonomic when it paired with lenses there. I even compared with Nikon Zf which is bigger and heavier but somehow the Zf felt much better in my hands.
So I am still holding on for now, the biggest point on S9 for me is the real time LUTs, which would simplify my workflow.
@@Azra-z7c Before buying the S9, the ergonomics didn't really factor into my decision, but now that I have it, it's the biggest sticking point for me. I just don't enjoy shooting photos with it. The poor handling and the lack of control dials..
For me, the realtime LUT isn't that much of a selling point as my main camera is a Fujifilm X-H2S. I've always had realtime-LUT like feature with the Fuji film simulation anyways. Even this video was shot with the Fuji film-simulation (Negative Standard) baked in. I didn't do any kind of post color grading.
@@camera.mellow I have X-Pro 2 now, but have been using it less and less these days as I am too lazy to bring it as every day carry. Been thinking to replace it with a smaller camera hence the thought of S9.
@@Azra-z7c
I used to own a X-Pro 3 + 27mm f2.8, and that combination is definitely smaller than any AF lens combination that you can put together with the S9. But, I sold X-Pro 3 because I really disliked the hidden screen. I liked it for exactly a week, but then it got really annoying having to flip down the screen haha 😆
I just want an AF pancake lens for the S9 even if it's like f5.6 or something. Just something that would make the S9 small enough fit for my winter jackets. Maybe I should just try the 26mm f8 manual focus lens...
I know it's a bit more expensive, but the a7c ii is just so perfect for most people. Oh, where do I start, I bought it after a year of saving up a little (helps reducing my alcohol abuse as well lmao) and pair it up with the Sigma 50mm f2 contemporary. It's just the perfect pair when it comes to looks and utility. The battery is so insanely huge from the ones I'm used to at the apsc experience, and I never run out of juice even after a full day (and night) of casual shooting. The photos and videos are amazing enough and that autofocus doesn't miss a thing. I'm not a professional at all, but the upgrade from my a6400 makes it look that much more professional. It's just so versatile.
BUT! Here's a big BUT- I'm so so so in love with the color tones from the lumix and I'd still recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone who's not brand loyal or just starting out the full frame journey. The lumix will do everything you need it to do and for a lot less, so bargain!
I feel these are one of the two best options available for casual photographers and travellers who wants to carry a lighter package. I honestly think you cannot go wrong with either. Pick the a7c ii if you have the budget without a second thought, because you have an even bigger range of lens ecosystem available, but if you're a bit financially restraint, you'll be just as happy with the S9, no questions.
Thanks for making all these helpful and useful comparisons. Good work again.
Thanks so much for your encouraging words! I really appreciate it :)
Great Video! hope to see S9 luts videos :D
Thank you!. I hope to make some videos on S9 Realtime Luts at some point :)
You're single handedly blowing up Panasonic's 'smallest full frame camera' gimmick. 😂
Haha yeah, thanks ;) It's indeed a gimmick, but the new 18-40mm kit lens makes it pretty close to its initial promise.
I believe the A7C is both shorter in height and width, it is only becasue of the grip that it has a higher depth, but makes for better use of battery storage and allows the mount to be more central giving you an EVF to boot.
I just bought the hated Panasonic 26mm f8 manual focus lens for the S9, and how I miss the EVF. It's so difficult to nail the focus on the screen even with the focus peaking. Even though A7C II's EVF is the worst EVF I've ever used, it's still something that the S9 is solely missing.
I just checked out your channel. Love the videos, subbed! 👍
@@camera.mellow Totally agree. It is a tough loss for me. I use an EM-5 MkIII and the evf has just improved my photography experience and quality of shots massively. An S9 mk2 with an EVF might be a more enticing camera.
@@camera.mellow Ahh thankyou kindly :D
I'm just a casual in the photography world. I'm upgrading from a dated but awesome Panasonic GH1. I think the Sony is probably a better all around camera but the Lumix Lab app would make sharing soooo much easier. I'm lazy and I imagine without a quick and easy way to get images to my phone they will never get shared.
Lumix S9 definitely suits your shooting style better I think.
I don't like editing my photos either, and while I like the experience of shooting photos with Sony A7C II better, I find that I get quite a bit more usable photos straight out of camera from the S9.
@@camera.mellow thanks for replying! If I hit the lottery I'm getting both!
@@briedcan Getting both is always the right answer! Look at me, I got both lol 😅
So what you're telling me is the A7C is what the S9 should've been? I really really want to love the S9 because I'm invested in L-mount, but I can't with the lack of a grip or EVF. The camera feels honestly to me like an after thought and an excess of S5ii sensors that needed bodies.
A7C II body design + S9 internals would've been amazing.
Just too many compromises were made for very little gain on the S9. Removing EVF, mechanical shutter, larger grip & 2x extra dials probably helped in shaving off like less than 20% of overall size and weight, and a couple of hundred bucks from the final price as well. I would gladly pay $200 more for those features, and the 20% in size difference between the S9 and A7C II is just basically the grip anyway.
@@camera.mellow I already have an S5ii that I absolutely adore. Really wish they had basically done an EVF and grip S9 because I would’ve just traded for the different form factor.
Eh it has its trade offs. The grip on the a7c is hideous, which is what happened when Lumix got backlash for including the beefy one on the gx8.
People hate on the Lumix but fail to recognize full frame is fairly new to them. It'll take time to build the ecosystem but it's coming
@@nickguzman1734 I have an S5ii and love it I’m more disappointed that the S9 seems extremely half baked. I recently tested one at a camera store and it’s just not a fun camera whatsoever to handle or use.
Excellent comparison
Thanks so much! I'm glad to be of some help 😊
You forgot one more thing when comparing both cameras....the price and at the cost of $700 more dollars the A7II makes the Sony a much bigger camera
Yeah that's true, it's quite a bit more expensive and Panasonic seems to get discounted more than Sony in the long run, so the difference could run up to almost a $1000 in the end.
People tend to forget that the smallest FF camera is Sigma fp1 ! And the smaller sigma lenses where solely made for fp initially!
Oh, right. Sigma FP!! I completely forgot about that.
I don't think it's mainstream enough for people to really consider it as their buying option though. It didn't even occur to me that Sigma FP still existed haha.
@@camera.mellowthere was the upgraded fpL a 60+MP monster with PD AF. I have an fp, fpL, S5 and a7cr.. they each have different uses for me. The a7cr is the most usable sony I have ever used. I still don't know if I will replace the fpL+evf with the a7cr.. I love the sigma L mount lens so much. The S5 is good so i exoect the S9 to be good too. At this point there are no wrong choices, just better choices.
It's amazing how much better these cameras are compared to just a few years ago. The video features that the S9 has is insane for such a small body.
@@camera.mellow I mean Sigma themselves I feel forgot about their camera division and doesn't really put efforts in marketing the camera or ensuring availablity. The Lumix S9 could be considered rightfully as the Fp2 ! Addressing most the issues such as Af , IBIS , better battery life, readout speed and finally the PRICE . Now if they could bring out compact lenses with VR , then it's fair say sony got a proper competition!
@@flagger2020the fpl has only electronic shutter and a flash max speed synch of 1/15, the sensor readout speeds are extremely slow. Only useful for things that dont move at all. I dont like sony but the a7c2 is really a great small camera no comparison with anything else. Plus the external evf makes the fpl as big or bigger than the a7c2.
Thank you for this comparison!
Thanks! I really appreciate your comment 😄
I have one and actually like it not having a grip. But obviously it’s a personal thing.
Also worth noting on the zoom front there is the new pancake zoom coming from lumix too.
I'm really looking forward to the 18-40mm pancake zoom :)
It really should've been released along with the S9, but I'm glad that there's at least something on the horizon.
@@camera.mellow totally agree!
Sony A7CII is clearly the superior camera here with the inclusion of EVF. Panasonic should have at least matched Sony in features considering Sony 7C existed for 4-5 years now.
Yup. EVF is really a deal breaker for a lot of people. I'm sure some people would say that S9's main competition is ZV-E1, but I think the intended target buyer demographic is actually A7CII and X100VI.
Great video! appreciate it, Can you compare it with ZVE1
Thank you!
I hope to get my hands on the ZVE1 at some point in the future.
If I do, I'll do a comparison for sure :)
The S9 is a strange one for sure, and the launch lens is a mystery. Since it's still sort of aiming at vloggers even the sigma 17mmm f4 would have been a better pair; wider, fast enough for purpose, compact. There's always manual focus glass for compactness; if something like the TTArtisan 50mm F2 becomes available in L, or the 7artisans 35mm F1.4 Mark Ⅱ would pair nicely with either of these camera. I would say that many people who are open to adapted legacy glass or the newer mirrorless manual lenses are in the "budget full-frame" category and would like the creativity of LUTs, but the S9 is short a dial or two and a viewfinder to really maximize a "manual photography" experience.
I think the S9's strange launch has been caused by a miss-direction in their marketing strategy. It's as if Panasonic shoved a video camera into a rangefinder-like photo body, but then they realized that they have to keep the size down, so they removed all the photo-centric features like EVF, mechanical shutter, and manual control dials. It wants to be a photo camera, but a video camera is what it really is at its core.
As you've pointed out, the S9 is an EVF and a few dials away from a good "manual photography" experience. Because its small rangefinder-esque body design just screams for manual lenses, so the lack of an EVF, and poor control schemes are just that much more frustrating.
After this video, I love my A7C2 more. Thanks for sharing BRO.
I’m glad you liked it :)
I have gear-envy for shiny new cameras all the time, but making this video made me realize how little use I make of my current gears.
Very helpful!
Thank you!
I'm glad you found it helpful 😄
Panasonic made a mistake with the S9, instead they should've made a G model. A new GX or GM. What you call a "pancake lens" seems huge. That's the disadvantage of FF. When Pany have the know how to make really small cameras, why go FF?
Sony did a better job. If i would go FF, I would seriously consider the A7C line.
The "Pancake lens" is indeed huge. It's really not a pancake, but it's the only thing they got. Canon and Nikon have true pancake lenses for their FF though. Their pancake lenses are actually half the size of what I've shown in this video,, and they are almost as small as some crop sensor lenses.
But I do agree that Panasonic made a mistake with the S9. If they were going to keep the size down, the lens size should've been their priority.. Like going with a G model, or just making a true pancake lens.
pan cake? as a Pentax fan, I cant find any on my sony. only Contax G35 with adapter could be something like pentax limited
Thinking of returning my s5iix and s9 and just going with the a7cii or a7cr
I own the s5ii and the a7cr. I use the a7cr for traveling abroad but would never sell the lumix. The Luts feature and sturdier body makes for a pretty epic video camera
@ ya I completely agree. I just don’t do a lot of videography anymore. Mainly photos and family video stuff which my phone works well for. I do love the s5iix. So comfortable in the hand and awesome aesthetics! I hate to return but cants justify 6k in gear as a hobby 🤣
Been using the S9 for about half a year now, and I can't imagine living without the Real Time LUT feature.
Not having a grip on the S9 is a deal breaker. I can't even hold the Fuji XT series.
It's not too bad with the 26mm f/8 MF pancake lens, but anything other than that, you need a minimum Smallrig grip. Even then, the vanilla X-T5 has a better grip than the S9 + Smallrig grip.
Dont care much about the grip. Handling it 1 handed is kinda shaky, so I always support it by the left hand. i'll keep a lanyard on it anyways if I'm worried about it slipping.
I definitely get that it's a personal preference.
Maybe I'm just too used to having chunky grips on cameras.
Actually the S9 is disappointing in comparison to the Sony A7C II. No mechanical shutter, no EVF and only size "disadvantage" of the Sony is the built in grip...
Yeah, as you can see from the video, the only size difference is literally the grip.
It’s amazing how so many RUclipsrs just go on and on about how tiny the S9 is when you just put it next to one of the most popular mirrorless out there A7C II, and it’s barely smaller, or even bigger if you put any AF lens on. It just makes you wonder why.
If you attach the Sony Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 lens on the Sony 7C II it is going to be even shorter. Even more if one uses the new Viltrox pancake.
I'm getting the Viltrox pancake for A7CII. I wish we had that for the L-Mount.
The Rokinon 24 or 35 2.8 are even smaller "pancake" lens for the A7Cii. (Technically, it's not a fully mechanical shutter).
I don't think those are manual focus lenses though. Panasonic also has a much smaller 26mm f8 pancake lens too, but it's also a manual focus lens.
technically you can slap Sony's 20mm f2.8 lense on the A7C II and it'll be hella lot slimmer. gotta put it into apsc mode tho
I haven't really thought of using APSC lenses, but it's worth looking into since A7C II is 33 megapixels I think. Thanks for the suggestion. There just seems to be so many more lens choices for Sony.
@@camera.mellow yes, you'll lose some resolution but still end up with around 15mp. it's still good enough. it'll be a really small setup, almost pocketable, i think, with the a7cii. only "drawback" is that lens retails for around $250 😅 a lil pricey.
Ok. But I’m not bothered with size that close in comparison. And is it more serious photographer I will two hand hold.
I’d be more concerned with steel photography features forward before video. Comparing to one coming from a Leica style rangefinder bring my existing lens collection so manual focus assist is more important and adaption
The IBIS is the kicker
By the way, Sigma fp is smaller than both of these!
My bad. >.< I have been pointed out multiple times since I published this video, haha. Sigma fp seems very niche though. Not mainstream enough to be on people's radar.
@@camera.mellow that's right
Not one of those lenses were a pancake lens.
Yeah, I should've said Prime Lenses. As far as I'm aware, there are no pancake AF lenses available for either Panasonic or Sony, and these are pretty much as small as you can get with them.
Wait till the FF Viltrox 28 4.5 pancake comes out for the Sony this month. Check Sony alpha rumors
Wow, it looks absolutely tiny. It's so short that It might actually be sitting flush with the grip! 🤯
Viltrox should release it for the L-Mount! I guarantee that EVERY S9 user will buy that thing.
Panasonic 26mm f8 Manual-Focus vs. Viltrox 28mm f4.5 Auto-Focus. It's a no brainer.
I really wanted to like the S9 but the complete lack of any kind of grip is crazy
S9 really is a video camera trapped in a photo body.
It looks like a rangefinder like a Leica, or a Fujifilm body, yet its missing all the important photo body features like EVF, mechanical shutter, tilt screen, manual control dials, etc.
Its easy to make small things if you take features away -accountants designed the S9
I'd take an addition of EVF and mechanical shutter over the 20% size reduction and cost anyway. S9 Mark 2 needs to have an EVF.
I think the biggest difference, comes down to the LOOK of the image. IMO, one camera has an image with a very generic / clinical look...while the other has a filmic / soulful look. And then once you decide that you don't want your camera to have that clinical look...you have to spend time at the computer, editing, doing post-work. Whereas the other camera, you do not. You can just get it in camera. I'd definitely agree w/ you about that one camera having better stabilization.. Best in the game ! (nice video man, thanks for sharing. subscribed !)
Thanks so much for your encouraging words and the sub!
The realtime LUT pictures from the S9 do look really nice. I'm so accustomed to just getting good jpegs from my Fuji cameras that when I first got the S9, the LUT feature wasn't really a big selling point for me. But when I got the A7C II, I definitely started missing the ability to customize jpeg color and dynamic range outputs.
I think where this camera makes the most sense is with video. I loved the ergonomics of my Sony A7C but it felt like using a computer. The Nikon range is now arguably the most compelling all round, although they still lack some of the great features Panasonic offer such as Open Gate, Anamorphic desqueeze/IBIS, shutter angle etc.
Nikon ZF has been really tempting.
I wish it was a bit smaller and lighter, but then again, I also kind of like the fact that it's just unapologetically chunky and being proud of it /w the nice metallic build and big dials, etc.
@@camera.mellow 100%! Having sold my Fujifilm it's definitely on my short list. If Nikon were to release a rangefinder body based on the SP I would buy it in a heartbeat!
Actually, Nikon Zfc II would be a very interesting camera if Nikon were to update the new version with IBIS. Nikon made only a half-hearted attempt at a retro body when they first launched the Zfc.
Nikon has seen what a huge market there is for retro bodies with ZF, so it only makes sense that they'd update the much smaller crop-sensor brother.
IF USE LUMIX 28-200 S9 MAYBE BETTER THAN A7CM2
I was actually curious about the Panasonic 28-200mm. It's almost the same size as the 20-60mm kit lens, yet the zoom range is so huge.
I'm not sure if there's something similar for Sony, but yeah, if what you are looking for a compact telephoto package, S9 + 28-200mm fits the bill.
It's kinda tempting because my other interest is in bird photography, and it'd make an excellent portable combo.
I would’ve turned the battery sideways in the s9 as in the a7CII just to add a mechanical shutter and a hot shoe, so we could also have a natural hand grip. All problems solved! But they didn’t 🥲
Smallest FF is Sigma fp/fpL.....
So I'm told multiple times ever since I made this video haha.
It is indeed the smallest FF, though it seems like a very niche camera.
I'm not interested in cameras without a viewfinder at all.
Yup, it's a real let down.
I hope that they add a viewfinder in the next version, then it'd be able to really compete with the likes of X100VI for photography.
@@camera.mellow I hope they do, but I don't think so. It seems that Canon is preparing a similar camera. We'll see if they add a viewfinder.
I think there's a real opportunity here for Canon here. If Nikon can pull off a comeback like this to mass market appeal with the Zf, then Canon can certainly make real waves.
Merci pour ce comparatif très intéressant
Merci!
한국어로도 리뷰해주시면 안될까요 ㅠ
죄송해요. 영어로 해야 뷰가 늘어납니다. ㅜ.ㅜ
제가 영어 자막을 영상에 첨부해 놓아서 한국어 자동번역기능 사용이 가능합니다.
좋게 봐주셔서 감사합니다.
You seem biased, trying to find reasons against the S9.
Are you a Sony fanboy or paid by Sony ?
The s9 will soon have a pancake Zoom (18-40), in camera processed handheld pixelshift, Luts, better menus, better ibis, sleeker design, better video quality… I only really miss the EFV from the a7cii.
Pls get neutral… or you‘re not trustworthy
Well, I can't say that I'm not biased.
Because I am, in fact, very much biased, haha :)
The moment I paid $1500 for one, I immediately became a biased voice regardless of whether I like it or not.
I don't think being trustworthy has anything to do with hiding your true feelings about a product for the sake of appearing to be fair. As long as I present the facts, and show people what each of the product is like side-by-side, I think the viewers can make the judgement for themselves. I think my opinion has very little impact on how the viewers see the product.
I really hope the new 18-40mm lens gets released soon though.
As much as I believe that A7C II is better for most people as their main camera, I still do want to keep the S9 since I'm going to use it as an everyday carry camera. The only thing that's keeping me from selling the S9 at the moment is the IBIS, and the hope of the new pancake zoom.
There is absolutely nothing in which the s9 is better, besides the image quality which is entirely subjective, and the so called in camera luts which are a gimmick.
Even the nikon z30 with its limited lens offering is a better deal. Yes it doesnt have ibis, but the small lenses do come with it.