I'm just finishing up a Jimmy Skiff 2 build and I went though a similar "shootout" when I was selecting a design. If you are still interested in the material it was 4 sheets of 6mm and 2 sheets of 9mm. Pretty simple build and not much timber is needed compared to the other designs. I'm about 100 hours into the build and just have final paint/varnish left to do. Also, with respect to the sail plan I have seen one built with a balanced lug sail. There is a CLC boatbuilders FB page and a guy posted on there awhile back with his lug sail rigged JS2. That same guy also made an Ikea bed type ladder to fill in the center and could put a two person tent on the larger platform. looked like an awesome little camp cruiser.
Hi, Congratz on the build! 😁 Thanks for the feedback. Interesting that it takes 9mm plywood. Is that for the bulkheads? The GIS is a bigger boat and it's all 6mm plywood, and no glass whatsoever other than the tape on the chines. Anyway, they look like great little boats and if only they had a balanced lug as option it would score even higher on the shootout. Cheers, Teo
Great vid! My top 2 choices were First Mate and Argie 15. I went with First Mate because of the comfort and look and strength of the deck. I asked Ross to scale up my plans 12% making it 17' not 15' and now I can use the GIS balanced lug sail which is super affordable through Really Simple Sails, and has the 3 reef points, 105 sq ft as you know! I can comfortably carry 4 people in my scaled up First Mate. The First Mate is definitely not cartoppable. It weighs 275# and more if you scale it up like I did. Mine weighs 350#. Sleeping is nice if you make a bed frame or cot to lay above the thwart. The best thing about the First Mate is you can sit anywhere because the decks are so comfortable and they make the boat much more fun for friends. The deck is the #1 reason I chose the First Mate over the Argie 15 and the GIS. The Jimmy Skiff 2 also has a gunwhale like the GIS, and Argie 15 and I would find that unnecessarily poky on my buns. I have seen in your GIS vids you have a seat you move according to where you plan to be. On my First Mate you can sit whereever. I plane down waves on my scaled up First Mate but not otherwise. Thx for sharing and looking forward to your build. Paul
Nicely done, Teo. A thorough, objective investigation, presented with ooodles of diplomacy (us sailors can be quite fragile). Love the well dessereved boat-plan-industry bashing sign-off.
Have you ever heard of a YAL or yalik? It uses a split lug sail and is clinker built. They are used for sports and touring, some can hold up to 3 or as many as 8 people.
Hi, lighter than what? if comparing to heavy wooden frame then yes. But nowadays with epoxy and stitch and glue methods it has no advantage weight wise.
This was a very interesting video. I have been doing something similar - trying to find a fun boat to build. I also agree with you regarding the specification, or lack there-off, on the websites.
I was surprised that you included a 10ft boat in your list. I did think of suggesting a Richard woods duo. Very light boat and good sailer. But max crew of 3. You really need at least 13ft to take 4 people. Totally agree that designers need to give more information before buying plans. To not know the basic hull weight and sailing weight plus max payload is a must. Simple material list as in number of sheets of what thickness plywood is also a minimum requirement. I am really looking forward to your choice. I'm just worried that the GIS is the best choice😂.
The 10ft dinghy was included because was mentioned a few times in comments. The material list needs to include number of sheets and thickness, lbs of epoxy resin and meters of glass if any. And a rough estimate of other timber would also be useful. The GIS to be cartopped doesn't have the 600liters floatation that I seek. 😉
The design I'm thinking about building, is the Quick Canoe Electric. It's short on built in buoyancy, but I would add some tanks. At my age, my highest priority is lightness.
I have built Storer's Quick Canoe and I would not call it light. There are several other canoe designs that are lighter and perform better.@@barrydavies2977
Argie 15 comes in a lug rig option. Your GIS rig would be about right. As soon as you add side tanks to any design the weight is going to increase significantly. Maybe consider strapped-in buoyancy bags in a simple build of GIS or Argie? Another thought - Radoslaw Werzsko's 4m Dayboat. With air bags rather than self-designed tanks, and MIK's proven OzGoose/OzRacer rig?
Hi Alan, I want something smaller than the GIS or the Argie, 12-13ft. the Dayboat is both to beamy and too heavy at 90kg. Cartoppable is the main requirement for the next build. The OZ Goose will be present in the final shootout. 😉
3/4 through a CLC Skerry kit build. As car-topping is the priority, I've doubled up the mast bulkhead and modified it as a take-apart. The bow will go into the back of the mpv and I can solo car-top the main.
Great stuff. I am not a fan of skerry/dory type of hulls. They are wonderful boats when everything goes well but if you capsize in rough weather most will not be self rescuable! They are usually very hard to balance once flooded, even in calm waters. I don't want to demotivate you in any way, quite the opposite. It's a heads up so that you DO TRY to capsize the boat and recover it in a controlled situation so that you don't get caught off guard at some point. If you know your boat then it's easier to keep sailing and preventing the worst. Reef early! 😉 Cheers, Teo
How about a guessing contest: What will Teo build next? Those who guess his next boat get to watch his videos for free! ...oh, they're already free to watch. What a great deal! My guesses: Oz Goose or Spindrift dinghy.
Hi Jerry, The spindrift dinghy is very similar to the Duckworks scout. I can't sleep aboard without an additional frame and the rig is anything but versatile. I really dislike mast sleeved sails. You can't drop sail when beaching for a few minutes, and the reefing options are very limited.
Only boat I can think of which scores 5 in all depts except freeboard is another Storer design. The OzGoose. Ok... maybe only 4 for sleeping space... Make it a 6 for "fun to sail" and save a few Euro by using your GIS rig. ;-)
Just be aware of CE vs CLR. From fuzzy memory, it's about 1100 mm for the OzGoose / OzRacer, it's vs about 800 or 900 mm for the GIS. Lee helm would be a Bad Thing. MIK would be happy to advise.
Have to say I’ve been pondering the same question for years and i keep ending up at the goose. Light flexible fun, if not so pretty as many of your comparators
I watched your last video and I had already bought the plans for an OZ Goose for my grandkids to learn to sail in a year ago but I had second thoughts about building it because it looked a little odd. After seeing your list of requirements and seeing the Oz mentioned a few times in the comments I showed my 13 year old granddaughter some videos of the boat and she thinks that it is funky and cool looking particularly some of the paint jobs on the Phillipine ones so two weeks later I have hull is just needing the deck and side top tanks glued on. I also added bulkheads in the side tanks so that flotation is maintained if a hole is punched into the side because where they will be sailing there are lots of jet skis that seem to be driven by nautical Hells Angels. Regardless of which you choose I thank you for your video that got me started on my first wooden boat. PS the plans are only $AUD36 directly from designer website.
Thanks for your feedback! And congratz on the build!!! The OZ Goose is a strong contender and it will present on the final shootout for sure. 😉 And you are right, there are really really nice color schemes on some geese for sure! This one being my favorite: ruclips.net/video/TZbuS4uei_M/видео.html Cheers, Teo
great video! these are always riveting and educational. I have been building a goat island skiff, and after hearing your reasons for building the side tanks, I am wondering if I might meed to do the same. You mentioned ease of recovery after capsize; I plan to sail on a quite large lake, with waves up to a few feet (maybe one meter on a bad day) and sometimes whitecaps. do you think that it will be difficult to recover in these conditions, or is that more of an ocean/near ocean thing?
I sailed my GIS without the side tanks for one season. I tried the capsize drills and I found the boat to be way too unstable fully swamped even in calm conditions. And I had the extended watertight mid seat from the start which adds 150liters of buoyancy. see it here : ruclips.net/video/RWYKo0627UY/видео.html and then I built the side tanks and tried again. Game changer!! see it here: ruclips.net/video/ro_w_ZR0PsA/видео.html Build your and test it. you can always add the tanks later!
I'm not familiar with the Jimmy Skiff, but allow me to sing the praises of the sprit boom rig of that boat. Properly done, especially if given the ability to change the verticle position of the boom in relation to the mast, this is a HIGHLY versatile rig! I have one on my Bolger Cartopper. The clew is self-vanging. It only rises as much as the snotter allows it. Meaning that the boom is very light to sheet, needs no traveler, and gybes are uneventful. If the mast is allowed to rotate, which it should be, you can even let go the sheet entirely to depower, even dead downwind. Handy when approaching downwind docks in a breeze. Changing the verticle position of the boom on the mast, along with the tautness of the snotter, allows you to open and close the leech at will, tuning your sail for changing conditions. It also allows you to mimic a 'bendy mast' rig such as the Laser. In a breeze, putting the boom high and pulling hard on the snotter tightens everything up, bending the mast, flattening sail, allowing spirited sailing in big breezes while keeping the boat upright, without having to reef. I saw no reef points on the Jimmy Skiff, but there is no reason not to have them. With the sail on a track, reefing can be easy. Just my two cents!
Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with that kind of sprit rig. In my mind to have the same sail area as on a balanced lug sail the mast needs to be higher which will make the boat heel more, but that's just a guess. I have grown fond of the balanced lug sail, it's dead simple to trim and reef while maintaining a performance very close to the best modern rigs.
@@TheBoatRambler The drawback in comparision to the lug is the long mast, not weight aloft, as the top yard of a lug contributes much to weight aloft. But in a small enough craft mast length doesn't matter as it's short and light enough for easy stepping/hauling. The lugsail does keep its sail area lower, but the area of the triangular sail decreases quickly with height, so stability is not nearly the issue it might seem. What I came to love about the sprit boom rig, as I got to learn it, was the many sail shape options it offered, for varying conditions, using very few strings. My boat was never meant to plane--narrow bottom--but when the breeze came on (and if the water was flat) with that sprit boom I could get it planing, hiking out, sitting on the gunwale of a tiddly open boat that was never meant to have her gunwale sat on! Great fun! Broke a frame, and a dodgy mast, doing it too. The trick was learning how to use sail shape. Open and close the leech and add or subtract draft as needed for the conditions, it's dead easy to do with a sprit boom rig just by adjusting snotter tension and the angle at which the boom intersects the clew (allowing the clew room to lift, or not). It's a rig that, if feeling lazy, just set it up, steer, and have a beer. But then when you feeling like it, start playing with things and see what you can get the boat to do! Great vids btw. Thanks!
When I mentioned the longer mas was exactly due to sail higher up. I have a Balanced lug sail on my GIS and I can reef it in 1 minute...literally! ruclips.net/video/-euDKefeNTo/видео.html I have a spectra line tied to the boom and around the mast which does two jobs, one it holds the boom against the mast and two it prevents the boom from moving forward. This way I can move the downhaul aft a few inches aft as I need to increase leech tension. Also being a loose footed sail I can use the outhaul to control sail depth on the fly. And I just love the shape of the balanced lug sail. 😁
Thanks for this! One of my brothers has an Oughtred skiff with a rig like yours, which I've been calling "a quadrilateral sprit sail." I've got a little Phil Bolger Teal that has a "jib headed spritsail," a rig that Bolger used a lot in his smaller boats, and I love its simplicity. I've been thinking, for years, of trying a quadrilateral spritsail on the same mast, as an easy way to get some extra sail area for light summer breezes.
Just to clarify, my Cartopper does have the jib-headed sail. There are two rigs on the plans. A loose-footed, 'spritsail' rig with a 4-sided sail, and what Bolger calls a 'sprit boom' rig with a 3-sided sail and sprit boom holding out the clew. Btw, Bolger loved lugsails of all types, and even used a dipping lug on his own liveaboard boat (more a motor sailor). But like you say he also used the sprit boom rig quite a lot. (The 25-foot Black Skimmer comes to mind.) You can also put a sprit boom on a spritsail rig! (More nomenclature complications!) @@christophernoto
The GIS with no side tanks is car topable but a lot of water to bail. With the side tanks it might get to heavy for car topping. But yes it's a brilliant design still! 😁
You also have to consider what type of seas you will be sailing in. The GIS is great in flat water but will struggle with that flat bottom in heavy chop
Hi, I have sailed in the Tagus river where the chop get's to 3 feet with very short period, and in winds to 30kn. I recall a 29NM trip with winds to 20kts against the tide, alongside a Topper 14, and the GIS managed to keep up even in the heavy chop. Being a light skiff the crew placement is critical to keep the bow in the water, or just let it heel and the hard chine will act as a "V" and minimizes the pounding.
Teo going back to a previous interactive set of comments, have you thought of designing your next boat yourself?? I would highly recommend giving it a go. Large second hand cardboard boxes from a local distribution center, will provide more than adequate material to build a mock up of any hull shapes you might like to try out. what is more you can knock out two or three ideas a day. No glue needed just a few rolls of packing tape and a good sharp blade.. It is something I have done myself on a small scale on the kitchen table with cereal boxes and in the garage with large card sheets destined for the recycling center. And it is quite amazing just how many types of card that is used in the packaging business If you can build it in card you can certainly build it in ply. Finally dont be afraid to borrow ideas or experiment, all the best designers do. It will certainly save money on plans, unless you have already purchased some.
I do agree with this comment. Teo, you have been around boats, boat builders and such. I also think you can design something that is perfect for your requirements. Go dude.
That would take time and it's not guaranteed that the boat would perform the way I want. I'm a mechanical designer not a boat designer! 😅 I'm sure I could put something together and it would sail well but there are sailing boats and there are real sailing boats...
Nice video! Consider adding multipliers to your requirements scores (weighted decision matrix). I'm building an Argie 15 in Brazil. My requirements were quite similar, apart from car topping.
More about freeboard. I met a man thrilled to pull into port. He explained that he got caught out in a Force 7, and the wind was blowing his boat making it hard to handle because it had so much freeboard, he said.
been there done that! On my first season I capsize tested my GIS without the side tanks a few times and the first thing that came to my head was " I need to make it stable and take in less water or I'll never selfrescue in rough weather". Just like most boats, unfortunately. ruclips.net/video/RWYKo0627UY/видео.html There's no chance. I would sail my GIS solo in the conditions I do without the side tanks, it would be asking for trouble.
perhaps a false floor wood be better than buoyancy tank style seats? oh and i was joking about the GIS. but really it is the closest to what you want it just need the right modifications to suit your needs. @@TheBoatRambler
How about a PT11? Don't know hoe fast it is, and sleeping in it might be hard, but car top able for sure. I think you list is going to be a challenge for sure.
Can I leave my comment in brazilian portuguese? Meus cumprimentos pelos seus vídeos. Sua análise é sempre precisa, e admiro o formato da comunicação. Sugiro um vídeo comparativo de formatos velas, e suas melhores aplicações.
What about a small Wharram catamaran like a Tiki 21 or 26? Safe, fast, beachable, lots of deck space, sleeping for a minimum of two people. The smallest ones like the Hitia will go on your car roof, but this is basically just an open beach cat. From watching lots of your videos, I've always thought your sailing area is perfect for a Wharram. I know this suggestion doesn't exactly match your requirements, but then, rules are there to be broken :)
Quite separately to Boat Rambler's needs, this has been really informative and has confirmed what I already suspected - that if I ever replace my Beth sailing canoe, a Goat Island Skiff will be best for my particular needs. Thanks Boat Rambler. I also love seeing the beautiful water you sail on.
Might I invite you to watch the second shootout and the final? 😉 2nd - ruclips.net/video/W0ao2W4Pdho/видео.html Final - ruclips.net/video/-SbTDj_eplw/видео.html
Hi Ben, I would need a trailer and a beach dolly and a place to park my car+trailer and would need to pay for a tow bar and would need a ramp to launch and if all exceeds 300kg I would need a road legal trailer and a tow license too! 😅
@@TheBoatRambler That's a long list! I have the to bar and because of my age I have all the licenses I need. Do need somewhere to park a trailer though.
Oi, sim mas a vela do spindrift não me agrada nada pois é pouco versatil. Não a consigo baixar na totalidade pois tem manga no mastro e só dá para pôr um rizo. 😉
@@TheBoatRambler entendi! obrigado. Eu achei o Jimmy Skiff 2 muito bacana por não ter banco no centro, e pela bolina ser no banco lateral. Eu não conhecia este projeto e me agradou muito, mas estou ansioso pelos próximo projetos que vais mostrar, inclusive pelo qual vai escolher e creio que construirei um aqui no Brasil a partir de janeiro. grande abraço.
It's a really nice dinghy but it is not on this list because it has a marconi sail, it's not easy to reef underway since the sail can't be lowered, and I'm not sure I can sleep aboard.
Hi, Sorry but I rate most dories very low, Im yet to see one which can be selfrescued in anything but calm seas. Most are dificult to balance once fully swamped even in calm conditions. The I550 is an awesome boat but way too big and with a 5feet draft is useless in the estuary.
one more shot at the i550 ........what is you redesigned the keel to be a swing keel.......then 5 feet draft goes away in sallow water....Just a thought...that was what I was going to do when I built mine because where I sail........there is a lot of sand bars.....and depth varies a lot. I did not want to have to worry about getting hung up. @@TheBoatRambler
Well, the Jimmy Skiff is not bad and easy to build at least compared with the Goat :-) Maybe the sail of the OZ Goose combined with the Jimmy Skiff would fullfill your needs.
Thr Jimmy skiff sail is in fact small. But I don't get why you refuse the leg of mutton in general. It's said to be one of the best sails for traditional boats. The only disadvantage is, that mostly the mast don't fit in the boat when laid down. Therefore the gunter rig was developed. With the snotter you can control the sail perfectly.
I guess I'm not familiar to that rig and maybe it's why it looks awkward to me, sorry. it reminds me of an old school windsurf sail On the other hand I love the balanced lug sail and its versatility, not to mention its shape when on the "good tack" 😁
Teo, I really enjoy your videos. I note your list includes some categories for how seaworthy each dinghy is - like Freeboard and Flotation. Why doesn't your list include a category for how the dinghy performs underway - for example will it pound if it's flat bottomed, etc. Or do you think that all dinghies the same size - that are not really very fast unless planing - approximately perform the same. I get the impression from some people that the GIS should pound terribly in choppy seas, but you and other GIS sailors don't seem to support this.
Hi, The GIS is a light boat so the crew/weight distribution is critical. If seating too far back it will pound a bit as the bow is too much off the water. If you keep the bow in the water it eliminates that almost 100%. Also if it heels a bit the hard chine will create a "V" reducing the pounding.
Just found out that the Argie was named after the Cape Argus. the erstwhile iconic Mother City newspaper of record So its correctly pronounced how paper sellers used to flog their wares by yelling ARGHEEEEEE at the top of their lungs. So there you have it, if you want to sound like a native Capetonian call it the Arghie not the Arjie. Just a shoutout to the Portuguese fish and chip shops that used the Argus to wrap their delectable cuisine.
check the designs of philip c. bolger , he design hundreds of diy boats on plywood, check de international 210 class sloop would be simple of construccion have a good choice
Indeed, the center of effort will change, I'm sure. Here's an idea for a scale model RC rudder if you want to test it first: ruclips.net/video/1JfJlXYuuUc/видео.html @@TheBoatRambler
I don't know why he's concerned with "room to sleep." These are dingies, usually just used for daysailing. As for sleeping: I live on near the ICW, there are spoil islands everywhere. Just bring a tent and sleeping bag camp on the island. Perfectly legal, actually no-one will know you are there. Also bums and thugs can't swim and don't own boats so you are perfectly safe.
Ok so I don't need to sleep aboard because YOU live near ICW! 😂 Here in Portugal we are not allowed to set a tent on the beach or anywhere tbh. Also on big tides islands and sand banks are flooded, or banks are inaccessible, so seeping aboard is an option. Thugs can't swim... but can get you if you are sleeping on the beach. Different people different needs...
Where is the Goat Island Skiff? Why are you building another boat? You mentioned freeboard repeatedly. Everything has a trade-off. A lot of freeboard means that it will also catch a lot of wind all by itself. This can make a boat lose momentum in a hurry and therefore difficult to tack. . . . Which is why I am looking for a boat with less freeboard.
Since you are doing a Study on all pluses and minuses of each aspect of each boat ... Why not Build Your Own Boat creating your Own Design , with all the stuff you like ! ... Then you can Fine Tune it as you Sail it .... Then you have a revolutionary set of SOTA New Plans , that You can Sell ! ... and it will be a very good Boat ! ... Why build someone else's boat , when You can build a Better one ? .... Cheers !
Hi Robert. Building a boat is easy, designing one not so much. A hull needs to be designed with hydrodynamics in consideration and not just a simple "looks good and fast", it needs to be analyzed using software. I could design my own boat but I am not a boat designer. Nothing guarantees that he hull would perform well. I will look into it sometime in the future if I have the chance to learn about hydrodynamics and hull design, but for now I want something quick and cheap to build for next season.
@@TheBoatRambler I understand ... so then ... I wood chose the Goose for fishing and excitement ... or the Explorer Goose for picnics , heavier weather and little kids ! ... Either way , I look forward to the Build ! Cheers :D
boat on a car roof 😂😂😂,dont they have towbars on cars were you are,there are some amazing small boat trailers that easy dismantle into five pieces and you store it in car boot until you finish sailing and go to drive home they use quick release pins ,you could easy fabricate one and it means your not limiting yourself to a particular boat weight and size
In Portugal you can't just build a road trailer. It needs to be road legal and to achieve that there's a ton of €bur€aucracy€ involved! and if the boat+trailer excceeds 300kg I would need to get a tow license (like a driving license with the trailer attached to the car). Also there are not many places with ramps to get my car and trailer and launch the boat. with a light boat I just need a pair of big wheels under the boat and I'll drag it from the car park to wherever I want.
@@TheBoatRambler did,nt know they were that strict in Portugal maybe i think EU is all the same in the uk when i passed my driving test my licence allows me to tow trailers ,now i think anyone passing driving test has to do a separate towing test ,crazy rules now for everything
I'm just finishing up a Jimmy Skiff 2 build and I went though a similar "shootout" when I was selecting a design. If you are still interested in the material it was 4 sheets of 6mm and 2 sheets of 9mm. Pretty simple build and not much timber is needed compared to the other designs. I'm about 100 hours into the build and just have final paint/varnish left to do.
Also, with respect to the sail plan I have seen one built with a balanced lug sail. There is a CLC boatbuilders FB page and a guy posted on there awhile back with his lug sail rigged JS2. That same guy also made an Ikea bed type ladder to fill in the center and could put a two person tent on the larger platform. looked like an awesome little camp cruiser.
Hi,
Congratz on the build! 😁
Thanks for the feedback. Interesting that it takes 9mm plywood. Is that for the bulkheads? The GIS is a bigger boat and it's all 6mm plywood, and no glass whatsoever other than the tape on the chines.
Anyway, they look like great little boats and if only they had a balanced lug as option it would score even higher on the shootout.
Cheers,
Teo
Thanks! This is a good process to work through. Every boat has it's own purpose.
Perfect timing, I was just thinking about this and wondered if you had made a decision. : )
I think I have! If I have time I'll make a video about my final decision next week! 😉
Currently building an Argie 15. I'm glad to see it in the running for your next build.
Looks like you should build the Oz Goose.
It is good seeing thoughts on each suggestion. Good stuff
Thank you! 😉
Great vid! My top 2 choices were First Mate and Argie 15. I went with First Mate because of the comfort and look and strength of the deck. I asked Ross to scale up my plans 12% making it 17' not 15' and now I can use the GIS balanced lug sail which is super affordable through Really Simple Sails, and has the 3 reef points, 105 sq ft as you know! I can comfortably carry 4 people in my scaled up First Mate.
The First Mate is definitely not cartoppable. It weighs 275# and more if you scale it up like I did. Mine weighs 350#.
Sleeping is nice if you make a bed frame or cot to lay above the thwart.
The best thing about the First Mate is you can sit anywhere because the decks are so comfortable and they make the boat much more fun for friends. The deck is the #1 reason I chose the First Mate over the Argie 15 and the GIS. The Jimmy Skiff 2 also has a gunwhale like the GIS, and Argie 15 and I would find that unnecessarily poky on my buns. I have seen in your GIS vids you have a seat you move according to where you plan to be. On my First Mate you can sit whereever.
I plane down waves on my scaled up First Mate but not otherwise.
Thx for sharing and looking forward to your build. Paul
Hi Paul,
thanks for the feedback! 😉
Chesapeake light craft, clc! A great build!
I recommended the Artie 15 because it is just barely car topable - thanks for including it. Can’t wait to see the next video!
Thanks for watching! 😉
Perhaps keep the Goat for the party of four and then car-top a sailing canoe. Michael's Viola 14 will plane and it's definitely car-topable.
I need something my father can safely sail and I also want to have crew aboard now and again. 😉
Nicely done, Teo. A thorough, objective investigation, presented with ooodles of diplomacy (us sailors can be quite fragile). Love the well dessereved boat-plan-industry bashing sign-off.
Thanks Sean
Have you ever heard of a YAL or yalik? It uses a split lug sail and is clinker built. They are used for sports and touring, some can hold up to 3 or as many as 8 people.
Hi,
thanks for the feed back!
Technically one sail, in reality two sails, two sheets, no boom, no way! 😁
@@TheBoatRambler Aren't Clinker boats lighter as well?
Hi,
lighter than what? if comparing to heavy wooden frame then yes. But nowadays with epoxy and stitch and glue methods it has no advantage weight wise.
This was a very interesting video. I have been doing something similar - trying to find a fun boat to build. I also agree with you regarding the specification, or lack there-off, on the websites.
I can't imagine anyone going to buy a car without knowing the HP, miles per galon etc... 🤦♂️
@@TheBoatRambler indeed. Who would do that?
I was surprised that you included a 10ft boat in your list. I did think of suggesting a Richard woods duo. Very light boat and good sailer. But max crew of 3. You really need at least 13ft to take 4 people.
Totally agree that designers need to give more information before buying plans. To not know the basic hull weight and sailing weight plus max payload is a must. Simple material list as in number of sheets of what thickness plywood is also a minimum requirement.
I am really looking forward to your choice. I'm just worried that the GIS is the best choice😂.
The 10ft dinghy was included because was mentioned a few times in comments.
The material list needs to include number of sheets and thickness, lbs of epoxy resin and meters of glass if any.
And a rough estimate of other timber would also be useful.
The GIS to be cartopped doesn't have the 600liters floatation that I seek. 😉
The design I'm thinking about building, is the Quick Canoe Electric. It's short on built in buoyancy, but I would add some tanks. At my age, my highest priority is lightness.
I also have the plans for the quick canoe. 😉
I have built Storer's Quick Canoe and I would not call it light. There are several other canoe designs that are lighter and perform better.@@barrydavies2977
Argie 15 comes in a lug rig option. Your GIS rig would be about right. As soon as you add side tanks to any design the weight is going to increase significantly. Maybe consider strapped-in buoyancy bags in a simple build of GIS or Argie? Another thought - Radoslaw Werzsko's 4m Dayboat. With air bags rather than self-designed tanks, and MIK's proven OzGoose/OzRacer rig?
Hi Alan,
I want something smaller than the GIS or the Argie, 12-13ft.
the Dayboat is both to beamy and too heavy at 90kg. Cartoppable is the main requirement for the next build.
The OZ Goose will be present in the final shootout. 😉
3/4 through a CLC Skerry kit build. As car-topping is the priority, I've doubled up the mast bulkhead and modified it as a take-apart. The bow will go into the back of the mpv and I can solo car-top the main.
Great stuff.
I am not a fan of skerry/dory type of hulls. They are wonderful boats when everything goes well but if you capsize in rough weather most will not be self rescuable! They are usually very hard to balance once flooded, even in calm waters.
I don't want to demotivate you in any way, quite the opposite. It's a heads up so that you DO TRY to capsize the boat and recover it in a controlled situation so that you don't get caught off guard at some point. If you know your boat then it's easier to keep sailing and preventing the worst.
Reef early! 😉
Cheers,
Teo
👍🇬🇧
Check out the B&B boats. The Spindrift would probably fit your requirements.
I built a 10 Ft. Spindrift. Amazing.🇧🇷
How about a guessing contest: What will Teo build next? Those who guess his next boat get to watch his videos for free! ...oh, they're already free to watch. What a great deal! My guesses: Oz Goose or Spindrift dinghy.
Hi Jerry,
The spindrift dinghy is very similar to the Duckworks scout. I can't sleep aboard without an additional frame and the rig is anything but versatile. I really dislike mast sleeved sails. You can't drop sail when beaching for a few minutes, and the reefing options are very limited.
You should have a look at the "baby baggie". They have 3 different sizes and multiple options for the sail
Only boat I can think of which scores 5 in all depts except freeboard is another Storer design. The OzGoose. Ok... maybe only 4 for sleeping space... Make it a 6 for "fun to sail" and save a few Euro by using your GIS rig. ;-)
I would definitely try a Goose with my GIS rig! 😁
Just be aware of CE vs CLR. From fuzzy memory, it's about 1100 mm for the OzGoose / OzRacer, it's vs about 800 or 900 mm for the GIS. Lee helm would be a Bad Thing. MIK would be happy to advise.
The Oz Goose has a large sail, 89 sq ft, and it's a balanced lug. I just added one to my fleet, will be sailing it soon.@@TheBoatRambler
Have to say I’ve been pondering the same question for years and i keep ending up at the goose. Light flexible fun, if not so pretty as many of your comparators
It's time to build! 👍
I watched your last video and I had already bought the plans for an OZ Goose for my grandkids to learn to sail in a year ago but I had second thoughts about building it because it looked a little odd. After seeing your list of requirements and seeing the Oz mentioned a few times in the comments I showed my 13 year old granddaughter some videos of the boat and she thinks that it is funky and cool looking particularly some of the paint jobs on the Phillipine ones so two weeks later I have hull is just needing the deck and side top tanks glued on. I also added bulkheads in the side tanks so that flotation is maintained if a hole is punched into the side because where they will be sailing there are lots of jet skis that seem to be driven by nautical Hells Angels. Regardless of which you choose I thank you for your video that got me started on my first wooden boat. PS the plans are only $AUD36 directly from designer website.
Thanks for your feedback! And congratz on the build!!!
The OZ Goose is a strong contender and it will present on the final shootout for sure. 😉
And you are right, there are really really nice color schemes on some geese for sure! This one being my favorite:
ruclips.net/video/TZbuS4uei_M/видео.html
Cheers,
Teo
@@TheBoatRambler Wow, that is the same video that I showed to Violet
great video! these are always riveting and educational. I have been building a goat island skiff, and after hearing your reasons for building the side tanks, I am wondering if I might meed to do the same. You mentioned ease of recovery after capsize; I plan to sail on a quite large lake, with waves up to a few feet (maybe one meter on a bad day) and sometimes whitecaps. do you think that it will be difficult to recover in these conditions, or is that more of an ocean/near ocean thing?
I sailed my GIS without the side tanks for one season. I tried the capsize drills and I found the boat to be way too unstable fully swamped even in calm conditions. And I had the extended watertight mid seat from the start which adds 150liters of buoyancy.
see it here : ruclips.net/video/RWYKo0627UY/видео.html
and then I built the side tanks and tried again. Game changer!! see it here: ruclips.net/video/ro_w_ZR0PsA/видео.html
Build your and test it. you can always add the tanks later!
I built an Argie 15 and it was a great boat but it's flat bottom right up forward pounds a lot when going into the waves. But it was a fast boat.
Hi Jason,
I saw some of your videos.
The GIS will pound too if the bow is off the water, a small price to pay for having a pocket rocket! 😉
I'm not familiar with the Jimmy Skiff, but allow me to sing the praises of the sprit boom rig of that boat. Properly done, especially if given the ability to change the verticle position of the boom in relation to the mast, this is a HIGHLY versatile rig! I have one on my Bolger Cartopper. The clew is self-vanging. It only rises as much as the snotter allows it. Meaning that the boom is very light to sheet, needs no traveler, and gybes are uneventful. If the mast is allowed to rotate, which it should be, you can even let go the sheet entirely to depower, even dead downwind. Handy when approaching downwind docks in a breeze. Changing the verticle position of the boom on the mast, along with the tautness of the snotter, allows you to open and close the leech at will, tuning your sail for changing conditions. It also allows you to mimic a 'bendy mast' rig such as the Laser. In a breeze, putting the boom high and pulling hard on the snotter tightens everything up, bending the mast, flattening sail, allowing spirited sailing in big breezes while keeping the boat upright, without having to reef. I saw no reef points on the Jimmy Skiff, but there is no reason not to have them. With the sail on a track, reefing can be easy. Just my two cents!
Thanks for the reply.
I'm not familiar with that kind of sprit rig.
In my mind to have the same sail area as on a balanced lug sail the mast needs to be higher which will make the boat heel more, but that's just a guess. I have grown fond of the balanced lug sail, it's dead simple to trim and reef while maintaining a performance very close to the best modern rigs.
@@TheBoatRambler The drawback in comparision to the lug is the long mast, not weight aloft, as the top yard of a lug contributes much to weight aloft. But in a small enough craft mast length doesn't matter as it's short and light enough for easy stepping/hauling. The lugsail does keep its sail area lower, but the area of the triangular sail decreases quickly with height, so stability is not nearly the issue it might seem. What I came to love about the sprit boom rig, as I got to learn it, was the many sail shape options it offered, for varying conditions, using very few strings. My boat was never meant to plane--narrow bottom--but when the breeze came on (and if the water was flat) with that sprit boom I could get it planing, hiking out, sitting on the gunwale of a tiddly open boat that was never meant to have her gunwale sat on! Great fun! Broke a frame, and a dodgy mast, doing it too. The trick was learning how to use sail shape. Open and close the leech and add or subtract draft as needed for the conditions, it's dead easy to do with a sprit boom rig just by adjusting snotter tension and the angle at which the boom intersects the clew (allowing the clew room to lift, or not). It's a rig that, if feeling lazy, just set it up, steer, and have a beer. But then when you feeling like it, start playing with things and see what you can get the boat to do! Great vids btw. Thanks!
When I mentioned the longer mas was exactly due to sail higher up.
I have a Balanced lug sail on my GIS and I can reef it in 1 minute...literally! ruclips.net/video/-euDKefeNTo/видео.html
I have a spectra line tied to the boom and around the mast which does two jobs, one it holds the boom against the mast and two it prevents the boom from moving forward. This way I can move the downhaul aft a few inches aft as I need to increase leech tension.
Also being a loose footed sail I can use the outhaul to control sail depth on the fly.
And I just love the shape of the balanced lug sail. 😁
Thanks for this! One of my brothers has an Oughtred skiff with a rig like yours, which I've been calling "a quadrilateral sprit sail." I've got a little Phil Bolger Teal that has a "jib headed spritsail," a rig that Bolger used a lot in his smaller boats, and I love its simplicity. I've been thinking, for years, of trying a quadrilateral spritsail on the same mast, as an easy way to get some extra sail area for light summer breezes.
Just to clarify, my Cartopper does have the jib-headed sail. There are two rigs on the plans. A loose-footed, 'spritsail' rig with a 4-sided sail, and what Bolger calls a 'sprit boom' rig with a 3-sided sail and sprit boom holding out the clew. Btw, Bolger loved lugsails of all types, and even used a dipping lug on his own liveaboard boat (more a motor sailor). But like you say he also used the sprit boom rig quite a lot. (The 25-foot Black Skimmer comes to mind.) You can also put a sprit boom on a spritsail rig! (More nomenclature complications!) @@christophernoto
Hi - I think there is John Wellsford SNS missing. Strong contender in the Everglades challenge.
Hi,
The SNS is a great boat but it's too wide and is heavier than a GIS without adding anything extra to the requirements list.
So far then the Goat is still on top of my list, interested to see the next 2 boats
The GIS with no side tanks is car topable but a lot of water to bail. With the side tanks it might get to heavy for car topping. But yes it's a brilliant design still! 😁
You also have to consider what type of seas you will be sailing in. The GIS is great in flat water but will struggle with that flat bottom in heavy chop
Hi,
I have sailed in the Tagus river where the chop get's to 3 feet with very short period, and in winds to 30kn.
I recall a 29NM trip with winds to 20kts against the tide, alongside a Topper 14, and the GIS managed to keep up even in the heavy chop.
Being a light skiff the crew placement is critical to keep the bow in the water, or just let it heel and the hard chine will act as a "V" and minimizes the pounding.
Interesting reviews Teo. I really liked the video.
You’re keeping us in suspense but that’s ok.
Thanks! it will come soon, just finishing a couple of 3D models to make sure I can build them light enough! 😁
Teo going back to a previous interactive set of comments, have you thought of designing your next boat yourself??
I would highly recommend giving it a go. Large second hand cardboard boxes from a local distribution center, will provide more than adequate material to build a mock up of any hull shapes you might like to try out. what is more you can knock out two or three ideas a day. No glue needed just a few rolls of packing tape and a good sharp blade.. It is something I have done myself on a small scale on the kitchen table with cereal boxes and in the garage with large card sheets destined for the recycling center. And it is quite amazing just how many types of card that is used in the packaging business If you can build it in card you can certainly build it in ply. Finally dont be afraid to borrow ideas or experiment, all the best designers do. It will certainly save money on plans, unless you have already purchased some.
I do agree with this comment. Teo, you have been around boats, boat builders and such. I also think you can design something that is perfect for your requirements. Go dude.
That would take time and it's not guaranteed that the boat would perform the way I want. I'm a mechanical designer not a boat designer! 😅
I'm sure I could put something together and it would sail well but there are sailing boats and there are real sailing boats...
Nice video! Consider adding multipliers to your requirements scores (weighted decision matrix).
I'm building an Argie 15 in Brazil. My requirements were quite similar, apart from car topping.
That's a great idea!
More about freeboard. I met a man thrilled to pull into port. He explained that he got caught out in a Force 7, and the wind was blowing his boat making it hard to handle because it had so much freeboard, he said.
The best boat for you is a Goat island skiff. Build it light and remove the that seat😅
been there done that!
On my first season I capsize tested my GIS without the side tanks a few times and the first thing that came to my head was " I need to make it stable and take in less water or I'll never selfrescue in rough weather". Just like most boats, unfortunately. ruclips.net/video/RWYKo0627UY/видео.html
There's no chance. I would sail my GIS solo in the conditions I do without the side tanks, it would be asking for
trouble.
perhaps a false floor wood be better than buoyancy tank style seats? oh and i was joking about the GIS. but really it is the closest to what you want it just need the right modifications to suit your needs.
@@TheBoatRambler
How about a PT11? Don't know hoe fast it is, and sleeping in it might be hard, but car top able for sure. I think you list is going to be a challenge for sure.
Can I leave my comment in brazilian portuguese? Meus cumprimentos pelos seus vídeos. Sua análise é sempre precisa, e admiro o formato da comunicação. Sugiro um vídeo comparativo de formatos velas, e suas melhores aplicações.
Boas!
Para comparar varios tipos de vela é mais complicado, teria de ir mais em detalhes tecnicos. E nem sequer sou expert em velas! 😅
Abraço
Teo
What about a small Wharram catamaran like a Tiki 21 or 26? Safe, fast, beachable, lots of deck space, sleeping for a minimum of two people. The smallest ones like the Hitia will go on your car roof, but this is basically just an open beach cat. From watching lots of your videos, I've always thought your sailing area is perfect for a Wharram. I know this suggestion doesn't exactly match your requirements, but then, rules are there to be broken :)
Hi,
The Hitia 14 will take an hour to assemble and another to take apart on the beach.
Also it's a really wet ride in anything but calm conditions.
Find someone to design a lug for the Jimmy Skiff!
Quite separately to Boat Rambler's needs, this has been really informative and has confirmed what I already suspected - that if I ever replace my Beth sailing canoe, a Goat Island Skiff will be best for my particular needs. Thanks Boat Rambler. I also love seeing the beautiful water you sail on.
Glad it was helpful! 😉
Great video! BUT, truly car toppable and also accommodating 4 persons for any length of time in comfort are mutually excluding criteria.
Might I invite you to watch the second shootout and the final? 😉
2nd - ruclips.net/video/W0ao2W4Pdho/видео.html
Final - ruclips.net/video/-SbTDj_eplw/видео.html
I’ve seen simple rigs for the Argie 15 before
Any one can slap a different rig on any hull. Getting it balanced without changing hull struts is a different thing all together. 😉
Interesting, though my car has a to bar so I wouldn't car top and would probably pick the Argie 15.
Hi Ben,
I would need a trailer and a beach dolly and a place to park my car+trailer and would need to pay for a tow bar and would need a ramp to launch and if all exceeds 300kg I would need a road legal trailer and a tow license too! 😅
@@TheBoatRambler That's a long list! I have the to bar and because of my age I have all the licenses I need. Do need somewhere to park a trailer though.
Can you add Duckworks Scout 14?? Love to see it's numbers with these.
Salve!
Excelente série sobre as embarcações.
considerou o SpinDrift?
Oi,
sim mas a vela do spindrift não me agrada nada pois é pouco versatil. Não a consigo baixar na totalidade pois tem manga no mastro e só dá para pôr um rizo. 😉
@@TheBoatRambler entendi! obrigado.
Eu achei o Jimmy Skiff 2 muito bacana por não ter banco no centro, e pela bolina ser no banco lateral.
Eu não conhecia este projeto e me agradou muito, mas estou ansioso pelos próximo projetos que vais mostrar, inclusive pelo qual vai escolher e creio que construirei um aqui no Brasil a partir de janeiro.
grande abraço.
Unbelievable that the Australian Sabre is not on this list... 😞
It's a really nice dinghy but it is not on this list because it has a marconi sail, it's not easy to reef underway since the sail can't be lowered, and I'm not sure I can sleep aboard.
Jimmy skiff 2 with a lug rig
Spindrift 12 de B&B Yacht Designs podría ser otra opción económica y fácil de construir muy similar. Graham Byrnes es muy amable ante cualquier duda.
Hi,
Spindrift is scored here: 😉 ruclips.net/video/W0ao2W4Pdho/видео.html
I was wondering did anyone suggest an OZ Goose another Michael Storer design especially as you like to plane
Oh yesss....😁
Did you look at a swampscott dory or a i550 ?
Hi,
Sorry but I rate most dories very low, Im yet to see one which can be selfrescued in anything but calm seas. Most are dificult to balance once fully swamped even in calm conditions.
The I550 is an awesome boat but way too big and with a 5feet draft is useless in the estuary.
one more shot at the i550 ........what is you redesigned the keel to be a swing keel.......then 5 feet draft goes away in sallow water....Just a thought...that was what I was going to do when I built mine because where I sail........there is a lot of sand bars.....and depth varies a lot. I did not want to have to worry about getting hung up. @@TheBoatRambler
Swing keels tend to unbalance the boats when not fully deployed as they change the CoE of the boat.
And I do want a car topable dinghy! 😉
Not relevant for the content but you look to be in great shape, good for you man!
Keep up the content :D
I blame it on the GoPro lens! 😁
Well, the Jimmy Skiff is not bad and easy to build at least compared with the Goat :-)
Maybe the sail of the OZ Goose combined with the Jimmy Skiff would fullfill your needs.
that would be a possibility...I would never used that leg of mutton sail! 😅
Thr Jimmy skiff sail is in fact small. But I don't get why you refuse the leg of mutton in general. It's said to be one of the best sails for traditional boats. The only disadvantage is, that mostly the mast don't fit in the boat when laid down. Therefore the gunter rig was developed. With the snotter you can control the sail perfectly.
I guess I'm not familiar to that rig and maybe it's why it looks awkward to me, sorry. it reminds me of an old school windsurf sail
On the other hand I love the balanced lug sail and its versatility, not to mention its shape when on the "good tack" 😁
Teo, I really enjoy your videos. I note your list includes some categories for how seaworthy each dinghy is - like Freeboard and Flotation. Why doesn't your list include a category for how the dinghy performs underway - for example will it pound if it's flat bottomed, etc. Or do you think that all dinghies the same size - that are not really very fast unless planing - approximately perform the same. I get the impression from some people that the GIS should pound terribly in choppy seas, but you and other GIS sailors don't seem to support this.
Hi,
The GIS is a light boat so the crew/weight distribution is critical. If seating too far back it will pound a bit as the bow is too much off the water.
If you keep the bow in the water it eliminates that almost 100%. Also if it heels a bit the hard chine will create a "V" reducing the pounding.
Just had another thought buy yourself a convertible build a boat that will invert and become the cars roof that way it should do more than 12 knots.🤣
😂
Just found out that the Argie was named after the Cape Argus. the erstwhile iconic Mother City newspaper of record So its correctly pronounced how paper sellers used to flog their wares by yelling ARGHEEEEEE at the top of their lungs. So there you have it, if you want to sound like a native Capetonian call it the Arghie not the Arjie. Just a shoutout to the Portuguese fish and chip shops that used the Argus to wrap their delectable cuisine.
@@Stopcolonizinglebanon thanks, but...Portuguese fish and chips??? Certainly not in Portugal! 😁
@@TheBoatRambler The "Porras" owned South Africa with their slapchips and hake.
check the designs of philip c. bolger , he design hundreds of diy boats on plywood, check de international 210 class sloop would be simple of construccion
have a good choice
Replicate a goat mast and sail and put it on the Jimmy Skiff II
would need to take into account the mast position and sail area... That could imply changing the mast step and partner.
Indeed, the center of effort will change, I'm sure. Here's an idea for a scale model RC rudder if you want to test it first: ruclips.net/video/1JfJlXYuuUc/видео.html @@TheBoatRambler
Hi Teo,
Haha, what's next ?
😁
I don't know why he's concerned with "room to sleep." These are dingies, usually just used for daysailing. As for sleeping: I live on near the ICW, there are spoil islands everywhere. Just bring a tent and sleeping bag camp on the island. Perfectly legal, actually no-one will know you are there. Also bums and thugs can't swim and don't own boats so you are perfectly safe.
Ok so I don't need to sleep aboard because YOU live near ICW! 😂
Here in Portugal we are not allowed to set a tent on the beach or anywhere tbh. Also on big tides islands and sand banks are flooded, or banks are inaccessible, so seeping aboard is an option.
Thugs can't swim... but can get you if you are sleeping on the beach.
Different people different needs...
Where is the Goat Island Skiff? Why are you building another boat? You mentioned freeboard repeatedly. Everything has a trade-off. A lot of freeboard means that it will also catch a lot of wind all by itself. This can make a boat lose momentum in a hurry and therefore difficult to tack. . . . Which is why I am looking for a boat with less freeboard.
Hi Mathew!
all your questions answered here: 😉 ruclips.net/video/IV1OxbfFp8Q/видео.html
Since you are doing a Study on all pluses and minuses of each aspect of each boat ... Why not Build Your Own Boat creating your Own Design , with all the stuff you like ! ... Then you can Fine Tune it as you Sail it .... Then you have a revolutionary set of SOTA New Plans , that You can Sell ! ... and it will be a very good Boat ! ... Why build someone else's boat , when You can build a Better one ? .... Cheers !
Hi Robert.
Building a boat is easy, designing one not so much. A hull needs to be designed with hydrodynamics in consideration and not just a simple "looks good and fast", it needs to be analyzed using software.
I could design my own boat but I am not a boat designer. Nothing guarantees that he hull would perform well.
I will look into it sometime in the future if I have the chance to learn about hydrodynamics and hull design, but for now I want something quick and cheap to build for next season.
@@TheBoatRambler I understand ... so then ... I wood chose the Goose for fishing and excitement ... or the Explorer Goose for picnics , heavier weather and little kids ! ... Either way , I look forward to the Build ! Cheers :D
boat on a car roof 😂😂😂,dont they have towbars on cars were you are,there are some amazing small boat trailers that easy dismantle into five pieces and you store it in car boot until you finish sailing and go to drive home they use quick release pins ,you could easy fabricate one and it means your not limiting yourself to a particular boat weight and size
In Portugal you can't just build a road trailer. It needs to be road legal and to achieve that there's a ton of €bur€aucracy€ involved! and if the boat+trailer excceeds 300kg I would need to get a tow license (like a driving license with the trailer attached to the car). Also there are not many places with ramps to get my car and trailer and launch the boat.
with a light boat I just need a pair of big wheels under the boat and I'll drag it from the car park to wherever I want.
@@TheBoatRambler did,nt know they were that strict in Portugal maybe i think EU is all the same in the uk when i passed my driving test my licence allows me to tow trailers ,now i think anyone passing driving test has to do a separate towing test ,crazy rules now for everything