Hegemony | Rahdo's Prototype Thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2021
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A video outlining gameplay for the boardgame Hegemony: Lead your class to victory.
For more game info, boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3...
Kickstarter Page:
www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
Part I: Gameplay Runthrough
• Hegemony Preview (runt...
Part II: Final Thoughts
• Hegemony | Rahdo's Pro...
looks so cool and deep . with a book too lol this game is aiming to take over the world haha much respect cant wait for release
Why do so many reviewers these days have a problem when a game takes longer than 2 hours? Some games just need the time to work, to click, to provide a great experience. Shortening the play time might just be detrimental then instead of making the game better.
I remember the times (decades ago) when we played the old AH Civilization for about 10 hours per game - that is epic.
A length of about 4 or 5 hours I still view as 'normal' for any kind of large-scale game. To be honest, any game that can be played under 2 hours (with 4+ players) I view as suspect and it will probably not give me the experience I desire.
So please leave some 'time-hog' games for us fans ;-)
Agreed.
When I get together with my friends and we play legacy and campaign games. We usually do blocks of 8 hours.
I am glad reviewers tell viewers that because its an important factor which influences my buying decision. not everyone has time to sit down for a few hours to play a game.
Most people don't have time (or space to leave the game to wait for the next time) to play 10 hour games and it is harder to find people to play with. Also most games becomes quite repetitive, if it runs too long. Little bit trimming in gameplay time doesn't usually hurt game experiences, if the game is well designed.
Telling the viewers about the game length is perfectly alright. But most reviewers mention that information as a critique and paint it as a negative of the game - that is what irks me.
It's already a hard sell to find players for a big crazy rules hard game.
Getting 6-7 players to play a game for 10 hours with a huge rules learning is not an easy commitment.
And if two or more players get bored and quit, the game usually falls apart.
Two player version of this is basically a more complicated version of "Class War" which is another Kickstarter board game that is only two players.
This game reminds me of a COIN game. Long, involved, asymmetric 4-player, card driven game. I’m in.
Except, fun
The Kickstarter is adding auto cards to let the game play the working class and capital class to let us play a 4 player game with 2 players.
huzzah! :)
I’m surprised the state isn’t the one that gets automata but I guess it wouldn’t be playable with one player then.
@@user-hk5fo1nm9h the game is already designed to play without middle class and state players, so I think that's why they only have working class and capitalist class automatons.
I would imagine it would give the following options:
-2 faction solo A: working class player vs automaton capitalist class (no active middle class or state factions like in the regular 2p game)
-2 faction solo B: solo capitalist class player vs automaton working class (no active middle class or state factions like in the regular 2p game)
-3 faction solo: middle class player vs automaton working class vs automaton capitalist class (no active state faction like in the regular 3p game)
-regular 2 player game: working class vs capitalist class (no active middle class or state factions; as shown in Rahdo's runtrough)
-3 faction 2 player game A: working class player vs middle class player vs automaton capitalist class (no active state faction like in the regular 3p game)
-3 faction 2 player game B: automaton working class vs middle class player vs capitalist class player (no active state faction like in the regular 3p game)
-4 faction 2 player game (A): automaton working class vs middle class player vs automaton capitalist class vs state player
-regular 3 player game: working class vs middle class vs capitalist class (no active state faction)
-4 faction 3 player game A: working class Player vs middle class player vs automaton capitalist class vs state player
-4 faction 3 player game B: automaton working class vs middle class player vs capitalist class player vs state player
-regular 4 player game: working class player vs middle class player vs capitalist class player vs state player
also, it seems like there's another stretch goal for an automaton middle class player, which would add even more options:
-4 faction solo: state player vs automaton working class vs automaton middle class vs automaton capitalist class
-3 faction 2 player game C: working class player vs middle class automaton vs capitalist class player (no active state faction like in the regular 3p game)
-4 faction 2 player game B: automaton working class vs automaton middle class vs capitalist class player vs state player
-4 faction 2 player game C: working class player vs automaton middle class vs automaton capitalist class vs state player
-4 faction 3 player game C: working class player vs automaton middle class vs capitalist class player vs state player
Just backed this. The Jacobin game that just got announced seems less dynamic with only two players and less mechanics. There’s a game online I just saw called Class War that I want to try in TTS.
I majored in PoliSci, with minors in history and economics, so I’m sure I’ll enjoy this. When you’re an academic you run into the issue of someone else’s framework being totally different than yours and you can’t do things you want to do, etc. Should be fun regardless.
Great review, I love your enthusiasm! (and your T-shirt!). I was similarly hyped when I heard about it and after playtesting a couple of times, I'm happy to announce that it does deliver. Even the two player game, although the automas are a very welcome piece of news.
I hope they offer a Chicken Mug add-on instead of the bag
This one has got me so excited.
Thanks for the review
Is it harder to learn/teach then a Lacerda game ? How much time to setup ?
honestly the game itself i would say is simpler overall than a typical lacerda, but it doesn't matter because this is 4 different interconnected games, so it is a big jump.
that said, i wouldn't say that setup time is too bad compared to other games :)
is there any way to play in its full potential for two players? I have no one to play it with but my partner. is it worth buying then?
they did ultimately develop two different automated systems where all four factions can be brought into a 2p game. but they are big and complex, so it's a lot of extra lifting to play with them. if you head over to boardgamegeek you'll find folks talking about and even demonstrating these systems :)
Rhado, I backed Eleven based on your playthrough and final thoughts. That was an economic simulator with a sports theme layered on top. Is this game similar with a different theme?
oh they're very different games. running the economy of a business is nothing like running an entire facet of society :)
@@rahdo thanks for the reply.
How do you like hegemony exclusivity for solo play?
@@noodlemans the prototype i had didn't include solo play, so i can't quite comment. i know they're working on it, and i would hope it's well done, but i haven't seen it myself yet!
Have you tried it now with the Automas?
i took a long hard look at the automa they developed. there's actually 2... a full one and a streamlined one. and it seemed very well considered, but tbh it was just too daunting to take on. so a really appreciate that they're there, but i just couldn't make the time :(
what if you just played the other classes anyways and see how it goes?
hmm, i think the toughest to make work would be state player plus capitalist class, because there will be no one to actually maintain operations of industry, and the whole thing would fall apart. but otherwise i guess combos could at least be attempted (and probably be a bit out of balance)
About the bots: the devil is in the detail. I picked up a game once which had a tutorial mode: to learn the asymmetric factions roles, my gf insisted on playing it with me, rather than letting me learn through solo: boy, it dragged on for hours (days actually) and we never persevered beyond that (there's always the winter for that). The regular game seemed complicated enough, adding the necessary automata too would just add weight, and game length to the experience.
Sadly then, this may not be in my wheelhouse, and workarounds may never be satisfactory for many players.
if they go with dave turczi-style automa that tries to replicate every single thing a human player can do with complex systems, yeah it would be tough. but if they go with the automa-factory approach, where it's just a simple card or two drawn from a deck that gives clear instructions, i reckon it'd work :)
@@rahdo I think the Root automa do a pretty good stuff. It's just drawing a card and running through the player board. They do quite a good job though and me and my kids lost several times because we did not keep them in check. Although they did not add significantly to the downtime. I would hope they get something like that going.
+1 to Bernie Smith's suggestion: there may be balancing issues if you just picked 2 random factions and played, but are there structural reasons why that can't even be attempted?
hmm, i think the toughest to make work would be state player plus capitalist class, because there will be no one to actually maintain operations of industry, and the whole thing would fall apart. but otherwise i guess combos could at least be attempted (and as guessed, probably be a bit out of balance)
@@rahdo Thanks for your replies. No doubt someone will come up with a variant for that case (if necessary), but then again, I thought someone else would come up with extra objectives for Pandemic: Rising Tide...
@@rahdo I wonder if it would be playable if you combine 2 sets of 2 factions (state + working class vs middle class + capitalist class; state + capitalist class vs middle class + working class; it probably won't work well if one player has to control both working class and capitalist class though)
@@nienke7713 i dunno... the player who controls state+something else would be in a really odd position i think (but i can't say for sure because i haven't played state)
@@rahdo yeah maybe, but it looks like the automatons are going to be there for all 3 classes, so now you could even play state solo, or state and any class as 2 player with the remaining classes being automatons, so that's probably the better solution
They only missed the banking class
I know I would really love the game. But the teach makes me hesitate to back. I enjoy teaching games and am always the teacher in our group. But with this game I see me teaching and talking myself throughout the whole game and not playing my class. At least the first game.
it's not as bad as you'd think, because each player has very different goals they're pursuing, but they all follow the exact same structure: on your turn play a card to do what it says, or instead discard a card to do one of your actions. the important thign is everyone gets a VERY good player aid that summarizes all of the unique stuff to them, and because everything is very firmly grounded in the real world, most everything is very intuitive. so if you take on the role of the state (the most complex and "different") i think you can get other folks up and running surprisingly quickly :)
How do you teach a game like this? If you play this with four people you have to teach four games… I guess you need a group in which everybody learns the rules by themself? (I don’t have any groups like that)
it's tricky. the main thing you've got going for you is that the core turn structure is the same for everyone. you play a card and do what it says, or instead you discard a card to do one of your special actions. and everyone had a REALLY good player unique player aid in front of them that breaks down what all their special actions are. i'd probably just explain that basic concept to everyone, make myself the working class so i can go first, and then i'd take my turn and explain exactly what i'm doing. and then when it gets to middle class player, explain to them what their goals are and how they're different than mine, walk them through their special actions, and let them make a choice. then do the same thing for capitalist, and finally state player. (actually, maybe i'd be state player since it's most complex, but that means i go last so can't demonstrate a turn right away). and then walk everyont through their unqiue end of round stuff one at a time. and then the 2nd round starts and just answer questions as they come up :)
It’s no different from Root in that respect.
I like the theme (bit of a politics nerd), but the gameplay is not what I typically like, so this would be a try before I buy for me.
One thing I am somewhat disappointed with from what I can see is the victory point mechanic and the general idea that only one faction can win the game.
Aside from me not being very competitive minded, I also think it ultimately really breaks the theme, because although the various factions will often have different interests, they don't always need to be mutually exclusive, and now the game can have points where you choose not to do something that could be good for your faction simply because it gives even more points to another faction.
If they'd change or add anything, I'd like to see goals that each faction needs to achieve instead of victory points, where multiple factions can win if they all meet their goals, and it is equally possible for no faction to win if none meet their goals.
I think that would make the game more interesting, more thematically accurate, and it could also be good for a solo mode (instead of something like "score better than the automaton"/"score x number of points to win"/"based on your score, you get a rank"/"try to improve your high score")
One thing I also notice, is that this game only seems to focus on the economic side of politics, and from what I've seen leaves out many things like human rights, discrimination, environment, religion, freedom, law enforcement, military, etc. Even things like migration are only seen in terms of their economic impact (with focus on economic immigrants, and nothing to do with refugees), or things like free healthcare and education having positive effects for all of society (even those who don't use it), and also ideas about how certain things are just basic needs that everyone deserves access to. The game mentions socialism, but really everything showcased is capitalism, just ranging from social democratic band-aid fixed capitalism, to neo-liberal full on capitalism.
Black Lives Matter!
Thanks for staying awesome!
yup, you're right, the game is focused 100% on economy, which leaves a lot on the table. but i can't imagine how much bigger it would be to bring other societal or cultural elements into the mix! :)
also, while there's no explicit 'co-op' goals woven in, there are still many collaborative elements woven throughout. usually players cannot accomplish much on their own and need to ally with others for their own good. this is downplayed in 2p though, which is inherently zero sum (and therefore less realistic). at higher player counts, i don't think you'd see the "well, i'll hurt myself to prevent you from getting something' moves, as it means both you and the other player fall behind those not directly involved.
i'm really hoping to see those automated players to allow fro solo and also a more well rounded 2p experience! :)
@@rahdo Oh yeah, it would probably be too much if they took all those other societal and cultural elements into consideration as well, but at the same time, it is one of the ways that the capitalist class in real life uses to divide the middle and working classes along societal and cultural lines instead of uniting for their economic interest.
I'm hoping that you are indeed right that it will be less like that in a 3 or 4 player game (or even 2p with automatons), but I would still like the game better if they gave an alternative win condition than scoring better than other players.
There are now stretch goals that have been unlocked for working, middle, and capitalist class, and the FAQ of the kickstarter goes into more detail about how they can be used for solo games as well as in 2 and 3 player games.
"They're ruining me I gotta get these people out of here-- well that's not quite how it works."
I agree that it's never 50%. But that can be how it works! My brother-in-law was trying to get his painting business going in Bend, OR but kept running into issues where he was getting underbid on jobs where illegals would underbid by quite a bit and he (my brother-in-law) couldn't compete with those crazy low prices and no one can. When a business doesn't have to pay taxes, pay their workers minimum wage, or pay any number of normal business expenses, they can paint someone's house for way less! He eventually had to move out of Bend to get his business to become successful. So, that can totally be how it works!
well you don't have to be an immigrant to run an illegal business taking all your payments under the table to avoid taxes and underpaying your workers... i've certainly has american born trades-people suggest i pay them under the table for a big discount, so I don't think immigrants have a monopoly on that. but i'm sorry to hear your family was turfed out :(
So - potential GOTY. Buuuut also - wouldn’t even have considered it for the channel without the *promise* of a design change to add player bots, was unbearably long as a two player game, and has no adjustments to tailor game length to player count (whether real or artificial).
I suppose you never said BEST game of the year.
yup fingers definitely crossed for automated opponents for solo and more variety at 2p :)
@@rahdo Stretch goal for Automatas for Working Class and Capitalist has already been reached. :-)
No info (yet) if the other 2 classes will also get Automatas but it seems to be a possibility.
@@spectralboardgamer good news!
@@rahdo Indeed, to me this was a deal breaker. I'm still a bit concerned about how painfully heavy managing 1 or 2 bots on top of the game this will be however. I play my board games, like you, with my wife 2-players 90% of the time. I wonder if we'll get to hear more about the automas.
I wonder if this game suffers from a really heavy-handed political bias. To me it would just be too predictable if they depict "capital" is being purely exploitative, I think the reality of things is much more complex (capitalism materially benefits workers over the long run, but is sub-optimal in various short-run timespans on a host of other measures, and of course any economic system requires environmental stewardship and collective action that seems to only be possible via government regulation).
You talk way too fast.
well, it's called Rahdo *runs* through ;)
you can also lower the playback speed to what you desire. I actually turned it up to 1.5x because I should really be getting back to work...