Slaving Two Vintage Marshalls Together
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Just a bit of fun on a Sunday. Im going to run my 1971 50 watt Marshall amp into my 1973 100 watt Marshall amp through a load box. Im using an OxBox set on the Sunset Sound setting.
Check out the solderless cables here - www.3monkeyssolderless.com
"I'm an amp builder, not a guitar player" proceeds to shred 😂
Been looking through "warm brown sound" videos all day; this is the closest to Ed's tone.
GREAT job.
THANKS FOR OPENING UP MY ENTIRE WORLD OF TONE!! ON ANOTHER VIDEO YOUR FENDER SOUNDED LIKE VH 1. I REALIZED JUST THE OTHER NIGHT JUST HOW MUCH MY '66 FENDER DELUXE SOUNDED LIKE EVH AT A LOW SUPER CLEAN VOLUME (3) WITH MY MXR DISTORTION PLUS WITH IT'S OUTPUT PEGGED AND DISTORTION BETWEEN 12 AND 3 O'CLOCK. SO MUCH PUNCH AND HARMONIC CONTENT!!!. SOUNDS LIKE ZZ TOP ALSO LOL!! SOUNDS EXTREMELY GREAT...KEEP IDEAS COMING !!!! LOVE YOUR TENACITY TO FIND THAT KILLER BUZZZ OF THE GOAT EVH...THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
Awesome vid! Good God, that 50watter is dead nuts VH1!!
Scott, Thanks man! I have had that amp since my late teens- Traded a San Dimas Charvel for it.
I'm an amp guy not a guitar guy.....breaks into van halen style riff....cool
You are too kind ... But thanks :)
Ossie
That is the Van Halen tone 100 percent!!! This also creates an effects loop of sorts if you ran time based effects such as delay and reverb no?
YES!!!!! put your echoplex here....
Sorry for the late response ... weird I didn't see this before
Ossie
@@ossieahsen6732 No problem.I thought that's the way they did it back in the day before reverb was cheap enough to lug around lol. Delay in the loop is just as good as reverb without washing your tone. And yes I tried it your way only with two soldanos....great amps but really picky fx loops when it comes to delays. Either you lose volume or the trails are a mess. Great vid and set up on your part....cheers bro.
@@christiancircelli8159 Chris,
Yeah.. :). Two echo units set at "x" and "2x" really do sound great... Reverb algorithms are basically structured delays :)
Fx loops are picky indeed. Some are better with line level and some with instrument level. Ive had good luck using these transformer equipped load boxes ... they provide a nice source to drive effects :).
Ossie
@@ossieahsen6732 Yes the Soldano loops are made for rack gear +4 db I believe would be line level?. Funny that mine can only handle a boss rv 5 reverb I just tried though?!? Must have a good buffer built in.That's the only way to run a delay in front of a dirty amp is with reverb in the loop. In my case anyway when just using 1 50 watt head at home. The mxr carbon copy with the mod switch engaged can get the vh 2 tone with a boost.
Your amps sound amazing !!!!
Thank you Stan :)
Ossie
You're like my new favorite dude. Your work and videos are great!!
Hi Matt!
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for watching!
Ossie
They both sound killer!
Thanks Eddy!
@@ossieahsen6732 Your Jose was the inspiration for my own mod. By now, I think I've changed almost everything, except for the master volume design haha.
Eddy, Lots of fun, isn't it? Im always changing things in my own builds- keeps it interesting
@@ossieahsen6732 Yeah, it really is! Never gets boring.
Your playing is good. Have confidence:)
Awesome video and perfect explanation 🙌
That sounds soooooo good
Thank you Kaidemen156 :)
Ossie
My goodness that sounds good.
Thank you for the kind words!
Ossie
Where does one acquire one of these load boxes?
Dead on VH tone!
You sound just fine..... interesting
Can I use an extra speaker cabinet a load box or are they different? Thank you
I am an amp hobbyist and am playing with my variac on my 2203. Are you biasing the plate dissipation at 70% after the voltage is lowered to 90? Are you running 6ca7’s?
How integral is the variac in getting that sound? I'm guessing that just browns it out a little, sounds good, I think slaving is what Ed was doing. I've seen people achieve similar results with just the variac but I feel like the slaving is the correct way because as you said all of the control you can get over the final volume output, either with daisy chaining to more amps or just kne with the volume turned down so you're not peeling peoples faces if in a small club. Sounded great!
Although its rather interesting putting a variac on the amp, and noting that it becomes less aggressive......and further noting that the heaters are lacking proper voltage and the electronic aspects. I see 2 directions, main one is reducing the plate voltages that the power tubes are operating at and all the other down stream power rail voltage feeds to the plates down stream.......Which by effect will warm the tonality of the amp up. AND the secondary is the heater supply feed. I would say, that you could employ a voltage regulation add on circuit for the heaters to exploit the lowering of the 6.3 volts. I can't say without real world operating conditions where 90 volts on the power transformer would put the heater voltage at (next time I do power rail caps.....I'll have to make a note to take a reading when at 90 volts). But a dedicated voltage regulation circuit could be an interesting switch to add on for an effect. Otherwise, its a matter of padding down the power rail off the rectifier to reduce the voltage that would pass through.......while running the power transformer at wall voltage....thus doing away with the variac and having to carry it around. I often drop the power rail voltage to bring the power tubes back to where they should be operating at book values or less that book values. Obviously more plate voltage increases the loudness but also makes the response harsh and brittle and ice pickishly bright. Where as going to book values warms them up......if that's the "BROWN SOUND" I don't think its wise to drop the heater voltages to a zone where the tubes won't work and performance suffers in a bad way. I think the JOSE clipper diodes in the pre-amp producing the compressed response sounds much similar to running the 50 into the 100.......I'd just do a line out from A JOSE'd preamp into a pre-amp'd splitter box if there is a need to drive several slave power amps.......being that a pre-amp'd splitter box would hold signal strength in the distribution to several amps
one factor I didn't mention is the bias voltage feed....I'm not sure I'd want to mess with that bias feed once I had a strong current draw for the power tubes and the bias set at normal wall voltage. I don't see as being proportional......though I never had to measure it for any reason.....under variac conditions
So basically you modified the 100 watter to have a line in jack. To cut the preamp and run the signal from the lineout load box into it, to the Pinverter of the hunder watter then into the cabinet.
YOU ALSO SAID YOU could run the lineout of the box into the input of the 100 watter but was uncontrollable.. what if you had a clean amp then?
I was thinking doing thesame thing but i need a line box with a volume pot. Then id need a robust load box just for the marshall.
Then id go for a clean amp, then into my 4x12
Will this sound good?
I would try it and see what you get. Every situation is unique and you just might find exactly what you are looking for. I say go for it :)
Ossie
Impressive! What pickup was used here? Oh and were the knobs on the 50w all dimed?
Hi Overtone85! Thanks for watching the vid!
I used a Seymour Duncan '78 -- most all of the vids I have used that pup.... The exception being the Jose demo which was a JB
The marshall was not Dimed out on the tone controls.. But the preamp was. I usually run the amp bass at 3 / mid at 6/ treble at 6 / Presence at 7
Thanks !!!!
@@ossieahsen6732 Thank you that's very usefull. i hope you don't mind a few more questions.
1) I built my own 100w 12000 series clone with a few switchable components (all stock variations). Do your vintage Marshalls have a treble pot that measures higher than 250k? I've read most of them measure at around 300k or so. This would shift the corner frequency of the treble cap down and give a slight boost around 800hz / 1khz.
2) By listening to the presets in your OX the impulse responses make it sound very good.
I am trying to reproduce the evh signal chain with all analog equipment like you're doing and I have almost all the same vintage pedals, including the 78 pickup,
some vintage celestions and also JBL k120s, reactive load and reamping. When I try to mic the speakers (SM57 or MD421 center of cone) I always find that there is too much bass and not enough treble. (i dime everything except the bass at 3 like you do)
Do you think that the OX sounds are actually produced and they're applying a highpass and boosting treble freqs?
It's my first time trying to learn micing speakers and and i am still scratching my head about this.
Did you ever try to mic the cab your self and do you find you need to apply a bit of eq to get close to VH1?
@@overtone85
No Problem Im happy to answer anything! First off the OX was used with the stock preset of sunset sound and no post eq at all --- its literally right into the zoom camera aux audio input. That being said .......
I have been chasing this ghost for about 35+ years and I have come to one conclusion. The missing ingredients were located in the studio. The missing top end and crunch IMHO was a result of the Mic preamps and the 1176 compressors. Until you actually hear it for yourself its hard to understand, but when you do hear it you will make a breakthrough . That chain is the sound. The amp is WAY less important than most think. You need a Plexi and that 12000 is perfect, but the minute differences are not worth the bother... You are there.
I have assembled a signal chain in analog form as well in my studio- Marshall into celestion/jbl d120- mic'd- 500 series mic pre- 1176 compressors- urei eq- reverb send and return and have gotten what I feel are way better results than the OX. The problem is you cant play this rig- you can only record it. So Im using the Ox mostly.
The Ox is cool as a solution for the impracticality of the studio rig size and process....The two notes is getting there too. Im developing my own VH1 IR for it and it shows promise.
Conclusion- f you are looking to get "the sound" while you are practicing or playing along with a drum track IR's are the best solution I've found yet. If you are looking for the most accurate to the real thing it is not.
If you are a die hard, and I think you are, its worth exploring the studio gear aspect to the sound. I think you will find your answers there.
See you in the rabbit hole- my second home.
@@ossieahsen6732 Thank you man. Very helpful
Hi. Whats the year of your amps ? Thanks
just finding this vid.. nice explanation for us NON amp guys.. the slave method i think of running like 2 marshall pre amps into one head.. am I thinking of this wrong? like running tube screamers together.. but with preamps.. where are you running the 50 watt into the 100W.. do you have as line in built into the back of the amp? and how good are PPIMV really?
Signal chain is guitar- amp1- load box- amp2- speakers.
The second amp has a line in - but both line in and front inputs were used
Ossie
It has the - double - overdrive from both amps?
yes!
@@ossieahsen6732 Very interesting. Is it possible to do between 2 100w JCM 800 (2203 800 - load Box - 2203 800 - speaker)? Or world be more secure do it between a 50w head as preamp and a 100w as power amp (2204 800 - load Box- 2203 - speaker)? I ask it because we always hear RnR storys about blowing heads and speakers - and none of us want it. Thanks for the attention one more time.
is this like jumper only to another plexi????? or 3 4 5 6 etc????
where is all that gain and sustain coming from?
Two amps!!!! One is ripping the head off the next
Ossie
@@ossieahsen6732 thanks.
Wait, you are variac-ing the second amp? Isnt the variac supposed to be used on the first amp which then goes into the load and into a clean power amp?
The variac was set to 120vac.... You can go into a clean power amp if you like .. I do sometimes ..
Ossie
@@ossieahsen6732 My understanding of the variac on a guitar amp is that the lowered plate voltage affects the gain structure in the preamp and only affects the wattage in the power section: It browns the preamp out and takes say a 100w el34 plexi power section down to about 25w (at 90v?) without changing the tone in the power tubes.
Of course this volume reduction is quite welcome if you plug directly into the power section of the second amp with no other way of controlling the volume. Those line-out volume controls on the load boxes can have very little effect on the signal in my experience.
@@ossieahsen6732 wait 120 volts, isnt your wall voltage 110? So you wanted increased voltage and headroom in the second amp?
@@infectionsman
You experience with a variac may be different than mine.... But If you do the math I think you might find the wattage on a 100 amp at 100vac to be considerably higher than 25 watts :).
Of interest to those using variacs to lower the line voltage their Marshall is this.... The gain of the preamp will in fact go down as the voltage does... You can clearly see this if you look at the load lines for an ecc83... Mu particularly is affected by low plate voltage and will result in a preamp tube with less drive. The result in a cascaded preamp design is less saturation and compression (distortion).
Thanks for watching!
@@infectionsman In the USA the wall voltage is 120vac... usually 122 here:).
I was really only using the variac as an expensive extension cord here :). I had it set to the wall voltage
Ossie
I wonder what two laney iron hearts would sound like slaved.......
Not a clue :). Give it a try
Ossie
Hey dude do you know any van halen?
Not Really ... I stink :). But I'm cool. with it ...
Thanks for watching!
Ossie
Would a Rivera Rockcrusher work?
Hello Struct2009! It appears that the Rivera unit would work in this application...But of course check with Rivera Amps for the definitive answer....
Thanks for the question!
:)
no a guitar player.................. dang dude, if your amps are as good as your playing, then they are pretty dang good !