The writer Robert Kurvitz actually had this setting made years ago when he published what was meant to be the first of a series of books to be called Elysium: the crown of the world (might be wrong about the name). This book was "Sacred and Terrible Air", which you'll be glad to know is only available in Estonian, and its translation has been expected ever since the game came out, with Kurvitz confirming it but otherwise giving no updates. You'll be even more ecstatic to receive news of the main creative minds behind the game, Kurvitz included, being fired by the ZA/UM game studios, and its homonymous cultural association being shut down recently, as a letter by one of its members talks about this event and the relative shunning of the Disco Elysium creators. Why should we care about a mere cultural association? It came before the game studio and was where Kurvitz birthed the Elysium anthology in its head, currently stuck in an untranslated book and a successful game that came out only thanks to countless struggles. I say stuck because there are countless who only want Kurvitz to flesh out the world further, and that's about the only thing he wants too, and yet he has only been met with obstacles. There is a TV series coming on Disco Elysium which I was cautiously optimistic about, then I heard that Amazon is co-producing it, and now these news arrived. My only hope is that the TV series never comes out and Kurvitz manages to crowdfund a new small studio free of investors where he'll be able to go buckwild after he buys back the rights to the Disco Elysium IP.
@@slavi8433 The lawsuit was withdrawn, there wasn't enough evidence, and so they got away with it. 4.8 million euros however were later taken from the people who stole the company, and were given back to the company so they could start more projects to cancel. The only hope now is that ZA/UM faces bankruptcy, and that Kurvitz and gang can purchase the IP back afterward.
The terrifying thing about the pale is that they took the already unnerving, but distant concept of entropy and turned it into a tactile, observable substance. You can feel and watch and touch the universe slipping away from you right before your eyes, and it's mortifying
I love how they gave Revachol a voice, and it is that of a young child, still learning about the world and itself, prone to falling short and needing help to get back up.
@@kevindogaru4080 I don't know about that, but the idea of the voice of the City getting channelled through some other medium is intriguing. Like, what if the voice of this child is a child that Harry has met before? The voice of his daughter, who never got to be born?
@@bowser8817 There is a scene from the original Final Fantasy 7, where Cid declares that he doesn't view the world as being a God or a Mother or any of the things that people often use to describe it. To him, the world is a little kid, a kid that's sick, and needs our help to get better; and more to the point, to stop _making_ it sick, as we are both the cure and the disease. I've always remembered that.
What gets me about Joyce is she reminds me of the Conductor from Snowpiercer who complained about the engine being loud. She's been exposed to a serious workplace hazard through the Pale but her suffering is completely invalidated by her position of power and privilege. She's a character with no right to grievance and she knows this.
This is more expanded when you say not many people ride the boat. Where she gets defensive* I don't know how to say that. But it feels like yeah I got this cool boat so what I can't be hurt
Does privilege really invalidate suffering? If that were true, then all first world Westerners’ suffering is invalid, and all human suffering is invalid because of the cruelty to which human beings subject animals on a mass scale
The fact that in this "normal" world there exists magic in the form of the human mind influencing reality itself caught me off guard but it really welcomed it I am very curious how they will build on this in the sequel
this scene and this music go together so perfectly. what is the purpose of living when the end of the world looms overhead? well, disco. because something beautiful is going to happen, and you ought to be here for it (another quote from this brilliant game, one of the wall writings you get from a failed check from Cindy the SKULL). "the world is a suzerainty of revachol" will stick with me
They say stroke victims can have sudden vision and sensation distortion that makes recognizable things lose their properties but maintain recognizable Entering and existing within the pale sounds like a continuous stroke mixed with PTSD and schizophrenia, and maybe even some alzheimers with that "memory decay", and 5 expeditions were lost within it's bounds What's worse is that it doesn't sound like the pale can actually *kill* you, so maybe they're still floating, minds blanked by the memory decay of the pale, set to re-emerge as empty, blank people with no memories of their own, just of the occasionally coherent static of centuries lost in nothing and everything, all at once.
I think the pale is made from human memory. Or information from the future. One of the two. Maybe both. Talking to the pale rider tells you a little more about it. It's interesting. Also, doing the church side quest tells you more about the pale too.
You're absolutely right about the symptoms. I think some dialogue talks about there being a legal limit for travelling in it or something. And the pale rider woman does sound mentally fucked.
@@MuttonChopCop she's a living relic, left reliving memories from her exposure to the pale. She's been left alone with the decayed, static nothingness that she's been numbed to the real world Because it doesn't feel *real* anymore. The pale has consumed, such is its nature, leaving it's mark on her mind by stripping the very chronological property of her senses into the solution of nothingness This is what happens to patients of Alzheimers, too. The bonds that connect memories like muscle connects bone is dissolved, leaving fragments of coherence to spark randomly and be relived, even though it's long in the past, or even yet to be. Check out a summary of "everywhere at the end of time" if you want a realistic look of what being exposed to The Pale is probably like, that project would do it justice. Be sure to abandon your hope at the door, the experience is a crushing realization of the great plagues of being blessed with thought. It can all be false. It can all be taken away.
Well, that's certainly interesting, I can also see some DPDR and a few, more obscure, anxiety symptoms thrown into the mix too, but especially DPDR (it itself being related to anxiety)... any sort of dissociative symptom makes your life hell, you are not the person who you used to be and the world bears only superficial resemblance to the world you used to know, it fucks with your memory too... you come out the other end a changed person, I imagine traveling through the pale to be somewhat similar to being in a dissociative state, though of course, it doesn't fully match the symptoms of pale exposure...
Thank you for posting this. I haven't started a new play through since the final cut came out and I'm so glad to have found this since this is my favourite scene.
You're welcome man. By the way, if you want me to record certain scenes with certain builds, or if you would like me to make thought guides, I'm open to suggestions!
I think I know what the pale is really meant to represent now. It's not a metaphor for climate change or anything so banal and overdone, it's a metaphor for the build-up of existential dread, "entropy", and nihilism that builds up as a society matures and eventually declines. (SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK BELOW) In the book, the only ways shown to get around the pale and resist its effects are: 1. A belief in communism (infra-materialism, or "love for humanity" as Kras Masov says, beating the pale) 2. Anodic dance music, or in general Perikarnassian methods ("love" beating the pale) 3. Simply believing hard enough that the Pale cannot harm you (not giving in to nihilism, beating the pale individually though this does not stop its spread) It's also possible that religious beliefs could counteract the spread of the pale. Consider that the church was built around the spot in particular, and it didn't stop service until rather recently (when the Mesque gang had done some presumably illegal activity in the church and precinct 51 busted them). This also presumably prevented it from spreading further despite its proximity. As shivers shows, without any intervention from Harry who can apparently tip the scales of the future, the anodic dance music club will never exist and the pale will eventually swallow Revachol. Consider also that the person who nukes Revachol and causes the Pale to cover the whole world is a self-proclaimed Innocent of nihilism. Since Innocences bring ideas from the future, the ultimate fate of humanity here (assuming its trajectory did not change) is to succumb to nihilism and drown in the accelerated build-up of the pale. What is this all to say? I think it's a pretty powerful message about the current state of society. Nihilism is winning. Religiosity and belief in God and country are waning. The "fascists" or "royalists" or "traditionalists" in the game may want to return to the past, or build something new resembling it, but the apparent message by the developers is that this will never work and other approaches must be followed. Instead, something new (like anodic dance music) must come to replace these old structures (religion, the abandoned church).
I think it ties in well with the alternate “Moralist” ending where Harry abandons the investigation in favor of supporting the Moralintern, effectively leaving the forest for the trees. With the Moralists representing an abdication of the everyday in favor of vague platitudes and a status quo that favors nobody in Revachol, but all its colonial exploiters. In its raw form, it’s embracing the nihilist idea that this is as good as it gets, so why try to fight the system? I choose to see the ending as Harry sacrificing his soul, in a sense. He’s ultimately bound to saving Revachol by embracing its struggles within her and her people. Turning your back on the case in favor of the Moralists is his own abdication. I take that as why the ending is such an anti-climax: Harry loses his purest self and no longer “is” him, just some Moralist shell whose good intentions are distilled down to nothing. In short, Harry “selling out” to nihilism, via death, mental breakdown, or abdicating to the Man is his own antithesis. Game over.
so i guess happiness, creativity, other yippe yay human stuff and love defeats the dread consuming the world.. its quite simple yet beautiful in a way.
/sorry if I'm answering too late/ As I see it, the Pale, dividing Isolas, is created by the humans itself, - this is the manifestation of misery and dread of people not being able to let go of the past. We don't know alot about the state of other nations, so all we have for now is Insulinde's Revachol. Because of this, let's think that most of the Pale was created by Revachol. And if we think so, it states that the dividing of nations, the dread of unknown future, state of fear and paranoia made from the rising tension between armies, as well as pressure from the Working Union and Moralintern, as well as fear for safety of people, created by war and then society tensions, made new ways for Pale to rise and grow more. With more Pale, other nations have more trouble connecting with each other, since working in Pale is dangerous, they have trouble shipping goods, communicate and evolve via cooperation. In this way, Revachol's minds are casually dictate the world and how it should live, by changing the Pale itself. Suzerainty is a relationship in which one state or other polity controls the foreign policy and relations of a tributary state, while allowing the tributary state to have internal autonomy.
Somehow I completely missed this, so I was expecting learning about The Pale to be a big reveal at the end or something. Turns out I just fucked up a check
I love Joyce as a character, and she definitely wanted to help, and assist our character. She's not entirely innocence, she knows this, you can feel she has regrets on what happened but she is far better morally speaking than Evrat. Evrat manipulated and lied Harry from the start. From the moment they met till the end, and did it all smiling. Joyce is also more concerned about actual people compare to Evrat who is willing to spill thousands of countless lives for his agenda, while Joyce gave up the Terminal to avoid the bloodshed.
I find it interesting that the main writers, being themselves communist leaning, wrote into DE some pretty sincere critiques of left wing action and syndicates/communes/Marxism. Fascism doesn't really get much respect, in fact it's actively harmful to Harry and the people that embrace it. Ultraliberalism is presented as callous but reasonable, if a little bit cowardly (which is not always terrible). Moralism as distant and vague, out-of-touch, sincerely tries to uphold moral values but hard to hold to accountability not through totalitarian power but through bureaucracy. The left is given the most scathing critique, specifically picking out the conniving deceit and corruption that can come with it, as well as the fanaticism and lack of compassion or pragmatism that can come with it - hard to argue you're fighting for the liberation of mankind when you have to trample over it to save it, though, I think most people are sincere when they think things like this. Of course that's massively simplified, and specifically a political interpretation rather than a more general take - there's many angles by which you can look at DE's story, Joyce really was an absolute pleasure to talk to - and according to Harry's senses, she was charming to him as well. Its refreshing to see someone express a worldview unapologetically but without an intentional layer of deception and lies. Many characters in DE are open books like this, other than a couple of fascists.
@@mattjk5299 Not to be that guy, but I think Disco Elysium just went above your head a little (maybe more than a little). Both Ultraliberalism and Fascism weren't even portrayed as a real ideology. The most scathing critique is not given to the left, it's to the center. The game *really* hates Moralism.
@@exu7325 I... *know*. But seeing as that is basically the first thing anyone says about DE, I was talking about other aspects. The critique of liberalism, neo liberalism etc. Isn't lost on me, I just didn't talk about it. I exaggerated some things certainly, but yes the moralintern is given a lot of attention because it represents the world order default of DE (and the real world to a large extent)
@@mattjk5299 Reading your original comment, I doubt that you know.. You said Ultraliberalism was portrayed as "reasonable", Moralism as "sincerely tries to uphold moral values", I honestly think you just didn't get some of the cynical mocking lines and took it as serious political arguments. Unlike the other ideologies, there was actually no criticism to Marxism, the ideology itself. Evrart is a criticism of social democracy and trade unionism, not Marxism. Reading Joyce as "unapologetic" i also weird since she actually regrets siding with Moralintern.
I thought it fitting that the part of the brain that Authority represents would decide on what it thinks "real men" are. Authority wants strict rules, clear divisions, commiting to society and it's norms. Also, it's the reprimanding, judging part that wants control over the situation. It would have very a specific idea of what real men are.
personally i beleive the pale is the limits of what humanity can imagine is possible. the reason its increasing is because of the reactionary trend in society
@@LCTesla None that I've read either. I can make some guesses: The suit is international orange (made to make you easier to spot in, say, snow or ocean waves), and the faceplate is broad and extended; more than combat helmets or spacesuit helmets would call for: they wanna keep the Pale as physically far as away from your face as possible without making it unwearable. The loose bulkyness, the awkward satchel, and that looks more like a jackhammer than a gun, when we know guns in this universe are fairly conventional-looking (and once they get to the "fucking MATH stops working" depths; it wouldn't work anyways). And that patch reminds me of the style NASA uses. Hm, that maintenance angle: they'd literally be fighting entropy--- or I think the Pale may be their version of Dark Energy (again, when math breaks down: there are places where conventional mathematics don't work anymore _in the real world:_ within the event horizons of black holes. What she said about that it grows over time, reminds me distinctly of Dark Energy. And/or: the fog from the Ancient One in _Demon Souls_ ). And too much loose material to get caught in machinery: not really maneuverable enough for combat armor or repair work. But, the only thing concrete thing we really have to go on is that there _is_ radio relay stations, presumably on the more stable levels of Pale, that they've got balls-to-the-wall people working on. I'm imagining they've worked out something that to us would look like an elevation map (the ones with the loads of concentric-ish lines), but instead of height from sea level, it measures in to Levels of Fuckery.
The first part of it is from talking to her from the other side of the map. The west side of the map is unlocked a few days after the game starts. You can find her at the harbor in the fishing village. The conversation trigger about the pale is at 4:38. It's a white check. It's under the lessons of reality. If it's hard to do, it helps to do the Jamie Vu thought, and progress through the church quest. By this point you may or may have not needed to do her side quest involving investigating the lorry driver's. Possibly. I'm not sure.
You need to succeed in the check. There are some people saying you shouldnt save scam in this game. That's 100% the wrong advice. You miss a lot of stuff if you fail and the fails are not that fleshed out. These are funnier but you miss too much
Eh, I know o can’t stop fujoshis from fetishizing gay men, but the thing is that I feel a romantic reading sucks so much of the air out of the suspiciously immense amount of trust kim has in you
Shit. When you realized that the entire reason the city is a bombed out shell precisely BECAUSE a pandemic hit that rocked the world governments enough to create the a knock on effects that lead to the toppling of the monarchy.
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun
Mr Evrart is helping me find my gun!
Mr. Evrat is helping me find my gun
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun?
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun...
I never expected this game to have this much... lore about it's world. I never learned about the Pale in my playthrough. All of this is stunning.
The writer Robert Kurvitz actually had this setting made years ago when he published what was meant to be the first of a series of books to be called Elysium: the crown of the world (might be wrong about the name). This book was "Sacred and Terrible Air", which you'll be glad to know is only available in Estonian, and its translation has been expected ever since the game came out, with Kurvitz confirming it but otherwise giving no updates.
You'll be even more ecstatic to receive news of the main creative minds behind the game, Kurvitz included, being fired by the ZA/UM game studios, and its homonymous cultural association being shut down recently, as a letter by one of its members talks about this event and the relative shunning of the Disco Elysium creators. Why should we care about a mere cultural association? It came before the game studio and was where Kurvitz birthed the Elysium anthology in its head, currently stuck in an untranslated book and a successful game that came out only thanks to countless struggles.
I say stuck because there are countless who only want Kurvitz to flesh out the world further, and that's about the only thing he wants too, and yet he has only been met with obstacles. There is a TV series coming on Disco Elysium which I was cautiously optimistic about, then I heard that Amazon is co-producing it, and now these news arrived.
My only hope is that the TV series never comes out and Kurvitz manages to crowdfund a new small studio free of investors where he'll be able to go buckwild after he buys back the rights to the Disco Elysium IP.
@@davixx1995 Apparently Kurvitz is taking them to court in November. He might be able to get his ip back without needing to buy it thankfully.
@@mutz6248 so what happend? heard nothing about the lawsuit and its been 3 months
Same
@@slavi8433 The lawsuit was withdrawn, there wasn't enough evidence, and so they got away with it. 4.8 million euros however were later taken from the people who stole the company, and were given back to the company so they could start more projects to cancel.
The only hope now is that ZA/UM faces bankruptcy, and that Kurvitz and gang can purchase the IP back afterward.
The terrifying thing about the pale is that they took the already unnerving, but distant concept of entropy and turned it into a tactile, observable substance. You can feel and watch and touch the universe slipping away from you right before your eyes, and it's mortifying
You said everything man, they made it legit scary
its so, *disco*
I love how they gave Revachol a voice, and it is that of a young child, still learning about the world and itself, prone to falling short and needing help to get back up.
Maybe that young child is from the chruch…. the birthplace of child pale
@@kevindogaru4080 I don't know about that, but the idea of the voice of the City getting channelled through some other medium is intriguing. Like, what if the voice of this child is a child that Harry has met before? The voice of his daughter, who never got to be born?
Makes it all the more heartbreaking that the little baby city gonna get hirosaki’d (spoilers ig)
@@bowser8817 There is a scene from the original Final Fantasy 7, where Cid declares that he doesn't view the world as being a God or a Mother or any of the things that people often use to describe it. To him, the world is a little kid, a kid that's sick, and needs our help to get better; and more to the point, to stop _making_ it sick, as we are both the cure and the disease. I've always remembered that.
This game straight up gave me an existential crisis. And I loved every minute.
this game really does have everything... even cosmic horror
I thought I had a pretty decent vocabulary, then I played this game.
Speaking with Joyce especially had me googling words every few seconds lol
What gets me about Joyce is she reminds me of the Conductor from Snowpiercer who complained about the engine being loud. She's been exposed to a serious workplace hazard through the Pale but her suffering is completely invalidated by her position of power and privilege. She's a character with no right to grievance and she knows this.
Oh holy shit this is such a good comment
This is more expanded when you say not many people ride the boat. Where she gets defensive* I don't know how to say that. But it feels like yeah I got this cool boat so what I can't be hurt
Does privilege really invalidate suffering? If that were true, then all first world Westerners’ suffering is invalid, and all human suffering is invalid because of the cruelty to which human beings subject animals on a mass scale
The fact that in this "normal" world there exists magic in the form of the human mind influencing reality itself caught me off guard but it really welcomed it
I am very curious how they will build on this in the sequel
Womp womp
@@ryanhernandez8324 dont remind me...
@@ZgermanGuy. Yeah, sorry. It's a shock to everyone...
this scene and this music go together so perfectly. what is the purpose of living when the end of the world looms overhead? well, disco. because something beautiful is going to happen, and you ought to be here for it (another quote from this brilliant game, one of the wall writings you get from a failed check from Cindy the SKULL). "the world is a suzerainty of revachol" will stick with me
HAI FLUTTERSHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
They say stroke victims can have sudden vision and sensation distortion that makes recognizable things lose their properties but maintain recognizable
Entering and existing within the pale sounds like a continuous stroke mixed with PTSD and schizophrenia, and maybe even some alzheimers with that "memory decay", and 5 expeditions were lost within it's bounds
What's worse is that it doesn't sound like the pale can actually *kill* you, so maybe they're still floating, minds blanked by the memory decay of the pale, set to re-emerge as empty, blank people with no memories of their own, just of the occasionally coherent static of centuries lost in nothing and everything, all at once.
I think the pale is made from human memory. Or information from the future. One of the two. Maybe both. Talking to the pale rider tells you a little more about it.
It's interesting.
Also, doing the church side quest tells you more about the pale too.
You're absolutely right about the symptoms. I think some dialogue talks about there being a legal limit for travelling in it or something.
And the pale rider woman does sound mentally fucked.
@@MuttonChopCop she's a living relic, left reliving memories from her exposure to the pale. She's been left alone with the decayed, static nothingness that she's been numbed to the real world
Because it doesn't feel *real* anymore. The pale has consumed, such is its nature, leaving it's mark on her mind by stripping the very chronological property of her senses into the solution of nothingness
This is what happens to patients of Alzheimers, too. The bonds that connect memories like muscle connects bone is dissolved, leaving fragments of coherence to spark randomly and be relived, even though it's long in the past, or even yet to be.
Check out a summary of "everywhere at the end of time" if you want a realistic look of what being exposed to The Pale is probably like, that project would do it justice. Be sure to abandon your hope at the door, the experience is a crushing realization of the great plagues of being blessed with thought. It can all be false. It can all be taken away.
Jamais Vu
Well, that's certainly interesting, I can also see some DPDR and a few, more obscure, anxiety symptoms thrown into the mix too, but especially DPDR (it itself being related to anxiety)... any sort of dissociative symptom makes your life hell, you are not the person who you used to be and the world bears only superficial resemblance to the world you used to know, it fucks with your memory too... you come out the other end a changed person, I imagine traveling through the pale to be somewhat similar to being in a dissociative state, though of course, it doesn't fully match the symptoms of pale exposure...
I could listen to her for days, thank you for not skipping the voiceover
Thank you for posting this. I haven't started a new play through since the final cut came out and I'm so glad to have found this since this is my favourite scene.
You're welcome man.
By the way, if you want me to record certain scenes with certain builds, or if you would like me to make thought guides, I'm open to suggestions!
This is truly the final cut
I think I know what the pale is really meant to represent now. It's not a metaphor for climate change or anything so banal and overdone, it's a metaphor for the build-up of existential dread, "entropy", and nihilism that builds up as a society matures and eventually declines.
(SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK BELOW)
In the book, the only ways shown to get around the pale and resist its effects are:
1. A belief in communism (infra-materialism, or "love for humanity" as Kras Masov says, beating the pale)
2. Anodic dance music, or in general Perikarnassian methods ("love" beating the pale)
3. Simply believing hard enough that the Pale cannot harm you (not giving in to nihilism, beating the pale individually though this does not stop its spread)
It's also possible that religious beliefs could counteract the spread of the pale. Consider that the church was built around the spot in particular, and it didn't stop service until rather recently (when the Mesque gang had done some presumably illegal activity in the church and precinct 51 busted them). This also presumably prevented it from spreading further despite its proximity.
As shivers shows, without any intervention from Harry who can apparently tip the scales of the future, the anodic dance music club will never exist and the pale will eventually swallow Revachol. Consider also that the person who nukes Revachol and causes the Pale to cover the whole world is a self-proclaimed Innocent of nihilism. Since Innocences bring ideas from the future, the ultimate fate of humanity here (assuming its trajectory did not change) is to succumb to nihilism and drown in the accelerated build-up of the pale.
What is this all to say? I think it's a pretty powerful message about the current state of society. Nihilism is winning. Religiosity and belief in God and country are waning. The "fascists" or "royalists" or "traditionalists" in the game may want to return to the past, or build something new resembling it, but the apparent message by the developers is that this will never work and other approaches must be followed.
Instead, something new (like anodic dance music) must come to replace these old structures (religion, the abandoned church).
I think it ties in well with the alternate “Moralist” ending where Harry abandons the investigation in favor of supporting the Moralintern, effectively leaving the forest for the trees. With the Moralists representing an abdication of the everyday in favor of vague platitudes and a status quo that favors nobody in Revachol, but all its colonial exploiters. In its raw form, it’s embracing the nihilist idea that this is as good as it gets, so why try to fight the system?
I choose to see the ending as Harry sacrificing his soul, in a sense. He’s ultimately bound to saving Revachol by embracing its struggles within her and her people. Turning your back on the case in favor of the Moralists is his own abdication. I take that as why the ending is such an anti-climax: Harry loses his purest self and no longer “is” him, just some Moralist shell whose good intentions are distilled down to nothing.
In short, Harry “selling out” to nihilism, via death, mental breakdown, or abdicating to the Man is his own antithesis. Game over.
so i guess happiness, creativity, other yippe yay human stuff and love defeats the dread consuming the world.. its quite simple yet beautiful in a way.
That 3rd method is called 'Volta Do Mar' in the game. It was used by the 8th Dolorian Expedition to access the Insulindian Isola.
Thanks for this video, I hope there would be more environmental and lore information on this wonderful world.
The line, "The world is a suzerainty. Of Revochal" sends chills up my spine although I don't know if I fully understand it?
/sorry if I'm answering too late/
As I see it, the Pale, dividing Isolas, is created by the humans itself, - this is the manifestation of misery and dread of people not being able to let go of the past. We don't know alot about the state of other nations, so all we have for now is Insulinde's Revachol. Because of this, let's think that most of the Pale was created by Revachol. And if we think so, it states that the dividing of nations, the dread of unknown future, state of fear and paranoia made from the rising tension between armies, as well as pressure from the Working Union and Moralintern, as well as fear for safety of people, created by war and then society tensions, made new ways for Pale to rise and grow more. With more Pale, other nations have more trouble connecting with each other, since working in Pale is dangerous, they have trouble shipping goods, communicate and evolve via cooperation. In this way, Revachol's minds are casually dictate the world and how it should live, by changing the Pale itself. Suzerainty is a relationship in which one state or other polity controls the foreign policy and relations of a tributary state, while allowing the tributary state to have internal autonomy.
@@Dzheridein that's gold, no doubt
@@Dzheridein All this makes sense as it compounds and make the Church Shivers scene logical
Margaret Thatcher jumpscare
TRULY BEYOND THE PALE
Somehow I completely missed this, so I was expecting learning about The Pale to be a big reveal at the end or something. Turns out I just fucked up a check
It's crazy how this game changed the way I view the world
I love Joyce as a character, and she definitely wanted to help, and assist our character. She's not entirely innocence, she knows this, you can feel she has regrets on what happened but she is far better morally speaking than Evrat. Evrat manipulated and lied Harry from the start. From the moment they met till the end, and did it all smiling. Joyce is also more concerned about actual people compare to Evrat who is willing to spill thousands of countless lives for his agenda, while Joyce gave up the Terminal to avoid the bloodshed.
I find it interesting that the main writers, being themselves communist leaning, wrote into DE some pretty sincere critiques of left wing action and syndicates/communes/Marxism. Fascism doesn't really get much respect, in fact it's actively harmful to Harry and the people that embrace it. Ultraliberalism is presented as callous but reasonable, if a little bit cowardly (which is not always terrible). Moralism as distant and vague, out-of-touch, sincerely tries to uphold moral values but hard to hold to accountability not through totalitarian power but through bureaucracy. The left is given the most scathing critique, specifically picking out the conniving deceit and corruption that can come with it, as well as the fanaticism and lack of compassion or pragmatism that can come with it - hard to argue you're fighting for the liberation of mankind when you have to trample over it to save it, though, I think most people are sincere when they think things like this.
Of course that's massively simplified, and specifically a political interpretation rather than a more general take - there's many angles by which you can look at DE's story, Joyce really was an absolute pleasure to talk to - and according to Harry's senses, she was charming to him as well. Its refreshing to see someone express a worldview unapologetically but without an intentional layer of deception and lies. Many characters in DE are open books like this, other than a couple of fascists.
@@mattjk5299 Leftists are very often their own most harsh critics. Especially the less authoritarian kinds.
@@mattjk5299 Not to be that guy, but I think Disco Elysium just went above your head a little (maybe more than a little). Both Ultraliberalism and Fascism weren't even portrayed as a real ideology. The most scathing critique is not given to the left, it's to the center. The game *really* hates Moralism.
@@exu7325 I... *know*. But seeing as that is basically the first thing anyone says about DE, I was talking about other aspects. The critique of liberalism, neo liberalism etc. Isn't lost on me, I just didn't talk about it. I exaggerated some things certainly, but yes the moralintern is given a lot of attention because it represents the world order default of DE (and the real world to a large extent)
@@mattjk5299 Reading your original comment, I doubt that you know.. You said Ultraliberalism was portrayed as "reasonable", Moralism as "sincerely tries to uphold moral values", I honestly think you just didn't get some of the cynical mocking lines and took it as serious political arguments. Unlike the other ideologies, there was actually no criticism to Marxism, the ideology itself. Evrart is a criticism of social democracy and trade unionism, not Marxism. Reading Joyce as "unapologetic" i also weird since she actually regrets siding with Moralintern.
The only concept scarier than ever-expanding universe to me is ever-shrinking universe.
Interesting that authority is the one to use the term “real men”
I thought it fitting that the part of the brain that Authority represents would decide on what it thinks "real men" are.
Authority wants strict rules, clear divisions, commiting to society and it's norms. Also, it's the reprimanding, judging part that wants control over the situation. It would have very a specific idea of what real men are.
personally i beleive the pale is the limits of what humanity can imagine is possible. the reason its increasing is because of the reactionary trend in society
That's such a dope fucking read
Spoken like a true infra-materialist
this is the most beautiful game in the history of gaming. it's only limited by the scope of time.
Mrs. Joyce is helping me lose my fun.
the most fucking insane shit in this game.
Where did you get the screenshot because i would love to use it as phone background
Here you go!
static.wikia.nocookie.net/discoelysium_gamepedia_en/images/a/aa/Paleworker.jpg
@@MuttonChopCop the link doesn't work but I was able to find it thanks to you thank you very much
discoelysium.fandom.com/wiki/Pale
is there any lore on what this guy, you know, **does**?
@@LCTesla i don't know. He just works in the pale as far as I know. Maybe he has to maintain infrastructure in pale infested areas.
@@LCTesla None that I've read either. I can make some guesses:
The suit is international orange (made to make you easier to spot in, say, snow or ocean waves), and the faceplate is broad and extended; more than combat helmets or spacesuit helmets would call for: they wanna keep the Pale as physically far as away from your face as possible without making it unwearable. The loose bulkyness, the awkward satchel, and that looks more like a jackhammer than a gun, when we know guns in this universe are fairly conventional-looking (and once they get to the "fucking MATH stops working" depths; it wouldn't work anyways). And that patch reminds me of the style NASA uses.
Hm, that maintenance angle: they'd literally be fighting entropy--- or I think the Pale may be their version of Dark Energy (again, when math breaks down: there are places where conventional mathematics don't work anymore _in the real world:_ within the event horizons of black holes. What she said about that it grows over time, reminds me distinctly of Dark Energy. And/or: the fog from the Ancient One in _Demon Souls_ ). And too much loose material to get caught in machinery: not really maneuverable enough for combat armor or repair work.
But, the only thing concrete thing we really have to go on is that there _is_ radio relay stations, presumably on the more stable levels of Pale, that they've got balls-to-the-wall people working on. I'm imagining they've worked out something that to us would look like an elevation map (the ones with the loads of concentric-ish lines), but instead of height from sea level, it measures in to Levels of Fuckery.
who is the guy on the thumbnail? does he exist?
That's concept art for a pale worker. Someone who works in the pale. I think.
I have cried six times playing this game. What is happening?
@@josemengelez6947 indeed
What do you need to do to trigger this conversation exactly?
The first part of it is from talking to her from the other side of the map.
The west side of the map is unlocked a few days after the game starts. You can find her at the harbor in the fishing village.
The conversation trigger about the pale is at 4:38. It's a white check. It's under the lessons of reality.
If it's hard to do, it helps to do the Jamie Vu thought, and progress through the church quest.
By this point you may or may have not needed to do her side quest involving investigating the lorry driver's. Possibly. I'm not sure.
@@MuttonChopCop Mm, I ask because it never came up in my playthrough for some reason, but I may have missed something simple.
@@MuttonChopCop you dont have to finish lorry quest
You need to succeed in the check.
There are some people saying you shouldnt save scam in this game. That's 100% the wrong advice. You miss a lot of stuff if you fail and the fails are not that fleshed out. These are funnier but you miss too much
Joyce just causally telling Harry that he should *hold on* to Kim... Yup she ships them :))
Male brotherhood doesn't need to be g4y for it to be good, alright? Weirdo.
Fool
@@iron6672 Confirmed bromance.
Eh, I know o can’t stop fujoshis from fetishizing gay men, but the thing is that I feel a romantic reading sucks so much of the air out of the suspiciously immense amount of trust kim has in you
too much mentioning "corona" and "end of a world" in one sentence for a 2019 game, very unnerving. zaum really looked beyond the veil
Shit. When you realized that the entire reason the city is a bombed out shell precisely BECAUSE a pandemic hit that rocked the world governments enough to create the a knock on effects that lead to the toppling of the monarchy.
Uuuuuff, that's unnerving in hindsight
Arguably the most boring thing in the game
:(
Blasphemous
@@1plusAidan fight me
Shit take. Like centrism
the most idiotic take in the disco elysium fandom (except for politics of course)