Like many of you, I never knew Dorothy Kilgallen, John Daly or Arlene Francis before these "What's My Line?" clips and now they are like family. The show sparkles with warmth, intelligence, civility and good fun!
She was murdered, cos she found out the truth about the Kennedy assassination after an interview with Jack Ruby, all of he notes of that interview also disappeared, she stated she was about to blow the lid off of Washington when she released what she knew.....big mistake
@@nulfater Nobody knows ahead of time if seeing or hearing something important to report would lead to that person's murder! She obviously heard something after interviewing Ruby in jail that convinced her the WC was a pack of government lies!
On and off, for years, there has been talk about doing a movie about her life. But one of the problems is they wouldn't know how to end it, since her death was such a mystery.
I've been saying this for years. A movie about her life would be fascinating. Even more so because I personally believe she was murdered due to what she knew about JFK's assassination.
Poor Dorothy did look under the weather there. And Arlene was so gracious to stand up while greeting her. I hope she got her well-deserved rest in Florida.
Interesting that Debbie Reynolds, not one of the regular panel members, still managed to come up with the identity-revealing question. Smart lady! As for Dorothy, she was always my favorite on the panel. But in this episode, appearing as a nervous mystery guest still recovering from illness-Dorothy was extra endearing. How I miss the people on this show.
OMG...This made me cry a little...why'd it do that? I dunno the details of Ms. Dorothy's illness, but it felt very much like a homecoming for her- especially when Arlene refers to her as "my dear girl." And it's probably the most vulnerable we've ever seen her- demure, sweet, and genuinely nervous- I think she tells Arlene she's scared to death, while holding on to the calming Mr. Daly. Welcome home, Dottie.
I just love these episodes, can’t get enough of them! I feel I know the panelists; they were all so charming, classy, intelligent- yet never put on airs. So refreshing to see the elegance & respect they had for one another. It was a different time but sad that things are so changed now in society for the most part. Sorely missed 😔❤️
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this. As someone else posted, one can see how vulnerable she is here. She looks lovely. Rest assured the game was never the same without her. Thank you again, Soulier.
I'd never heard of Dorothy Kilgallen until I started watching this channel. From the months I've been viewing and reading the comments, I've received quite a media history lesson on her. Thank you. What a fascinating figure. From what I've gleaned from the comments and history snippets, she had the touch of Capote in her, no? Meaning, once you start dishing about your friends in print, the relationship dynamics change. I'm gonna read up on her now.
Gina Greenlee Lee Israel wrote a good bio of Dorothy. Dorothy had a famous journalist dad and she followed most distinguishedly in his ink-spattered footsteps. Miss Israel wrote the book in early '70's, within the decade of Dorothy's passing, and she suspected, and didn't mind saying it, that there was serious doubt about the reasons behind Dorothy's death. I got my copy on Amazon for $ 4.
+iamintheburg I didn't know anything at all about Dorothy (I'm a Brit) but I looked her up on Wiki several months back and found her fascinating. I just read the Lee Israel book and although obviously very troubled she was an astonishing and incredibly talented woman of great contradictions. The men in her life,Richard and Johnnie were terrible influences. She looks ill on this after coming out of one of her rehabs. I have no doubt she was murdered to silence her. By the time of her death she'd largely shaken off the two drunks and I think even greater stardom was coming her way if she could get healthy
I like how Arlene showed some interest in Dorothy's well being. Like saying "my dear girl, how are you?" and saying "we're so glad to see you" In one clip somewhere, a poster had thought Dorothy had low-self esteem. I think she had a bit of low-self esteem especially with talk of her and Johnnie Ray, like maybe she thought no one cared about her except him. I wonder what her kids thought around that time. It was nice to see that Arlene showed that she was concerned for her.
I've watched several episodes of this show on RUclips, and Dorothy and Arlene were excellent panelists. Both very bright, and it was sometimes pretty incredible how quickly they could guess both occupations and celebrities. Very good show, and no wonder the original group lasted for 17 years. if they were back in their respective primes and on Sunday nights right now, I would be a regular viewer.
+WATCHMAN 117 Just to make one slight correction. Three were NOT the original group of 4 panelists when it started on Feb. 2, 1950. They were: Dorothy Kilgallen, former Gov. Harold Hoffman (NJ), poet Louis Untermeyer, and psychiatrist Richard Hoffmann.
I've become fascinated with Dorothy and just read the biography "Kilgallen." It was an exciting and sad story but the life she lived was full and vibrant. That was a beautiful dress she was wearing.
Just kinda want to reiterate something that often gets lost when it comes to the panel's feelings on Dorothy. They adored her and loved her, like family. She was an incredibly sweet person, though troubled. The family of WML did however feel need to later on put a little distance between themselves and Dorothy, because of the gossip tidbits that Dorothy would write-up. They all admired her journalistic work on newsworthy stories, but there was a shift in her writing. That's where the panel had to put up a thin wall. But they loved her genuinely. Arlene noted on the evening they finished WML taping, the night Dorothy died, it was the first night EVER in the 15 years of Sunday's that Dorothy did not kiss her goodnight on the cheek. That stayed with her. These folks were family in every sense of the word.
+Lorna -- you may want to listen to Bennett Cerf's 5-part interview on RUclips. He speaks at some length about Dorothy's messy relationship with the panel.
I've read that Dorothy's conservative politics was another cause of friction, especially with Bennett and Arlene, who reportedly preferred hanging with the more liberal NYC literati and arts crowd. Strange, since this was also Dorothy's principal beat for her column. Also, Bennett intensely disliked Hal Block (one of the original panelists, I think), whom he regarded as coarse and unsophisticated compared with the rest of the panel.
Well back then even Democrats didn't seem as nasty as today. Conservatives generally still stick with morals and country. Believe it or not, used to be more popular to follow Founding ideas. Not sure why that would bother Democrats voting for JFK back then.
Can you tell me why Dorothy was troubled? I started watching the WML episodes a few weeks ago and became fascinated with her. I even bought Shaw’s book about her though I haven’t read it yet. I was born in the 50’s and her generation is very interesting to me.
Thank you for sharing that. You must have had some contact with the show, or someone who did. In any case, it's nice to hear such classy things about these people. While this is a little off topic, I feel deeply that Debbie Reynolds must have been an amazing person. I base that on her off stage life, and particularly on what happened when her daughter died. May God bless her.
One thing that does come across, at least to me is how fond that in fact that John, Arlene, Bennett, Dorothy were of each other. Especially after Dorothy's death.
Started before I was born but continued so i could see the final two years (1965-67), but is neither here nor there, or important on what year it started! The point is, it is now available to see on YT for anyone who wants to and I hope more people catch the WML? fever! It is that good, and as a bonus, you get to see the last of the Golden Age of Hollywood (and NY) celebrities, in all their glory from 1950-67, and some political office holders, some well-known, others in a local capacity! And the sports figures: baseball, football, boxing, etc.! What a wonderful era it was that WML? mostly covered in its 876 total episodes, with most of them available to see from their Feb. 2, 1950 start, through its sad Sep. 3, 1967 end!
Did you meet Kerry in the company of his daughter Molly who is a fitness trainer and weightlifter? She is Dorothy’s granddaughter. Please summarize the circumstances of you meeting Dorothy’s son. Thanking you in advance! Stay safe.
@@januarykaygreen6949Did Kerry discuss karate with you? I ask because from 1991 until the early 2000s, he was well-known in the Atlanta suburbs of Marietta and Alpharetta for teaching his unique mix of karate, judo and other martial arts. He called his business “Martial Hearts.” He was trying to help women defend themselves against possible rapists. If self-defense was not what you discussed with Kerry, did your conversation have to do with stray dogs? Here is a RUclips link to a video from 2016 with Kerry Kollmar going into detail about an Atlanta animal shelter that never puts a creature to sleep. ruclips.net/video/rfyVpB285fs/видео.html
I never would have believed that people would be talking about Dorothy in the 21st century. In fact, I didn't know for certain I would still be here. But thanks to technology, and thanks to my life-saving double bypass , all of that is possible.
I wish I could get a copy of the book "Girl Around The World" written by Dorothy Kilgallen. In the book she wrote about a competiton to travel around the world as fast as they could. Each competitor was allowed to use only commercially available public transportations back in the mid 30s. And she was the only female to be in the contest; she came back in the second. Though I realize she still remains a controversial figure, I adore her along with her friend Arlene Francis.
What a fascinating woman who was absolutely brilliant. People still want answers as to what really happened to her. I believe there is enough evidence to keep investigating her death.
Oops!! Terribly sorry (as JCD would say, prefacing a 'small conference')- I never thanked you, Soulier. This particular clip is wonderful, and this 47-year-old vintage television junkie appreciates it.
I believed her when she said she was scared to death. You could see it in her eyes when she first sat down. She was so rattled and worried that she wouldnt be able to pull it off. I love these old shows when TV was TV.
I can't help but notice the way Arlene eyes lingered on Dorothy as she was walking away in a "worried, protective mama" way. I know it was said that they've all distanced themselves from her in later years, but I still get that vibe that Arlene cared for her a lot regardless.
They didn’t distance themselves from Dorothy, she passed away, Nov 8th, 1965, while still sitting on the panel of the show. In fact she had just finished filming their live show just a few hours before she died.
They didn’t distance themselves from Dorothy, she passed away, Nov 8th, 1965, while still sitting on the panel of the show. In fact she had just finished filming their live show just a few hours before she died.
@@illusionistdave1 Segregation in 11 States out of 50. 22%, with blacks less than 13% of the total population then nationwide; those affected in the 11 Southern States were probably less than 7% of the entire population. Still, a horrible thing to those affected, but in 1965, official State segregation was eliminated after the Civil Rights Act the previous year. So, your point was passe by 1965, and the Voting Rights Act that year. My question to the affected blacks was: why didn't more of them move OUT of those official segregated law States, and to the freer North or Western States? Do people usually stay for decades in dilapidated or bad areas, as they did, when they could have moved elsewhere? But the immorality of racial segregation was practically ended by then, and the Southern DEMOCRATS who supported forced segregation were finally thrown out of both Houses of Congress! Interestingly, now there is a push for blacks themselves to separate into their own schools, sports teams, housing places, etc.! Sounds like they are now the ones who oppose integration, but that is their right if they want to, of their own free will! If the government left the people alone, instead of MANDATING segregation, by FORCE of LAW, people would make up their own minds who to associate with, who to live with, who to marry, and who to do business with. Any of them who refuse to do business with the other race(s), only hurt themselves, as the saying goes: "green (currency), is a powerful weapon to give-up (more) income, just to not serve a race you dislike!"
Dorothy was one of the first to stand up and say that Dr. Sam Shepard was innocent. The Judge at the trial told her that he knew Sam was guilty. This was before the trial ever began.
The more I read about Dorothy the more fascinating she becomes! What an intelligent person. And while I can understand why the panel had to put up a thin wall, as Lorna Baden states below, I am sure it hurt Dorothy. I do hope she had at least a few good friends. She deserved them. Her husband, from what I’ve read, imbibed in liquor too much, and was no longer someone she was close to. That’s why he was sleeping on the 4th floor the night she died. I suspect if she was not such a devout Catholic she would have divorced him. I’m going to continue to read up on her. There was something in the news lately about Shaw, the man who wrote about her. I think he was trying to get her cause of death re-examined, but I am not sure. He’s the only person left who is still fighting for her.
These 'trick' mystery guests are so much fun to watch. Dorothy looked so good here, at 47. One of the most unfortunate passings in (Nov. 8) 1965, at only 52. It's not a coincidence that WML? was canceled (Sep. 1967) less than 2 years after her death.
Because the show had been on since 1950 I think it would have been cancelled, anyway, but Dorothy's death took the wind out of the WML? sail, didn't it? I have never watched the kinescopes of the show after her death, because without her there's something missing. She really brought something unique to the show. Sort of the same reason I don't watch reruns of The Lucy Show after Vivian Vance left.
Yes, it would have been cancelled anyway, but it was a surprise to the panel. But all the shows of that type were cancelled at the same time. I often wondered why I had never seen that show until I came across it a few years ago and then binged on it! I grew up in South Africa until 1961 then was in college and graduate school (journalism) with no TV until I was married the month after they were cancelled! We would have enjoyed that show!
I started watching these shows because of Dorothy's interview of Jack Ruby. Plus she said she was goibg to come out with blockbuster news. That's why she was done in. There was a recent book done about her investigation.
Yep she was silenced. Such a shame. And Mr Daly Father in law was Judge Warren of the Warren Commission. None of the costars spoke out because they must have been living in fear of how easy it is to be taken out.
@@Yahowah777 That was interesting when I found that out. She was so outspoken against the findings of the Warren Commission! But I did find out that Warren himself wanted nothing to do with the Commission. It was forced upon him by President Johnson, who wanted the the whole matter resolved in the minds of the public as soon as possible. It was strange that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed on live television before he could talk. I do remember looking into that as a college student and never believed the narrative we were fed. It would be so interesting to know what the panel members thought about Kennedy’s death and the Warren Commission’s findings! Especially since powers-that-be, including the FBI, were pushing their narrative and failed to interview many of the witnesses.
@@Yahowah777 Daly (b. Feb. 20, 1914 in Johannesburg, South Africa) married Virginia Warren (b. 1928), then 32, on Dec. 22, 1960 (Daly was 46 then), died on Feb. 24, 1991, of cardiac arrest, four days after his 77th birthday. Virginia Warren Daly died on Feb. 19, 2009, at 80.
And it's interesting to finally see Dorothy on the other side of the fence in this..and i love her little squeaks for yes and no..how entertaining. I wish the panel hadn't guessed her quickly, or atleast up to $45 then be guessed..lol I would have loved to see how long she would last up and there and what other voices she would do..lol And she really did look scared, that poor thing..lol
Well put. Well written. Whoever prescribed those barbs did Dorothy a world of hurt. Alcohol is a drug too. It is interesting to speculate what Dorothy's newsreporting career could have evolved into if the drugs hadn't taken a toll on her -- and killed her at a young age.
@soulierinvestments Possibly Dorothy drank a lot sometimes, but the medical examiner found no evidence that she had abused barbiturates. If she had a prescription for one type of barbiturate, such as Seconal, how does that prove she swallowed the capsules on the night she died? The autopsy showed that three different types of barbiturates were in her system. Her drinking glass had powder residue. Those details do not indicate long-term addiction. They indicate she was drinking cocktails with someone she knew, and that person poisoned her drink. @soulierinvestments is ignorant. Why was Dorothy’s body discovered sitting up in a bed she never used, in a master bedroom where she always felt uncomfortable, with the bedcovers neatly tucked into the bed? It looked as if someone had made the bed with her in it. What’s up with that?
Wait why was Dorothy in the hospital??? I was soo happy to see Debbie Reynolds on the panel!! She's such a great woman. Arlene looked really REALLY pretty in this episode. Like she always does. :]
Dorothy looks so pretty when she smiles. Makes me think of "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling..." So sad her untimely death in 1965. Perhaps we will never know whether it was accident or foul play (it is said she was about to break explosive revelations about the JFK assassination).
Dorothy Kilgallen appears as Flo Kilgore in three Max Allan Collins novels in which PI Nathan Heller gets caught up in the mysteries surrounding JFK and his assassination. I've read only ASK NOT as of yet, but the character is excellent, and so is the book.
I'm all for the truth coming out, and her death does seem to fit a pattern. Anyone who thinks covert political assassinations do not take place is severely closing their eyes to history. I'd really love to see some old-timer come forward with information. Any word on that movie on her death? Apparently it is being dropped.
I know there's so much controversy around Dorothy's death. But just watch her on this show and enjoy who she was when she was alive. Just let her rest in peace.
TV from an era where class and more was worth more than being able to go on TV any time you want and yell at a country for not voting as you demand they do.
soulierinvestments, I was looking everywhere for your usual informative tidbit comment and realised YOU posted this video haha.. thank you thank you thank you soooo very much!!! I've heard you talking about a DK mystery guest WML before and couldn't wait to see it and it certainly didn't disapoint!
Actually, the dates of those broadcasts were 1/07/1965 for Kilgallens last WML? appearance, 11/14/1965 for the Kilgallen tribute episode, one day off in each case. But Kilgallens official, last appearance on TV was a pre-recorded episode of the daytime To Tell The Truth on the very day of her death (11/08/1965), in which she & Arlene Francis appeared in disguises (voices also altered) as contestants, with actress Joan Crawford, the object for the panel to guess the real Crawford.
For such an iconic and sharp minded woman Dorothy certainly had a messy personal life. Caught her husband in the act with another man at their park avenue brownstone, agreed to maintain the marriage for professional reasons, had her third child with singer Johnny Ray who was also gay, the child who was later disowned by her husband, and later had an ongoing affair with Ohio newspaper columnist Ron Pataky whom Dorothy suspected was CIA and who many believe was responsible for her death because of her involvement and investigative research into the Kennedy assassination.
Dorothy's sister is still alive at 94+ - Elinor in NYC. Was Warren Beatty's early agent when he appeared in his TV appearance on Kraft Theatre, my friend Marion Dougherty told me.
@MegaObserver1 Bennett Cerf appeared as a mystery guest early in syndicated WML. Martin Gabel appeared as a mystery guest in 1960 and 1965 when the producers tried the gimmick of putting the spouses of the panel on as mystery guest. RUclips has both of those clips under heading of "What's My Line spouses."
I also seem to recall a segment in which at least one of Kilgallens young children appeared as one among several Mystery Guests. And I know Edie Adams was a Mystery Guest, but not sure if during Kovacs' brief stint as panelist. I know Jayne Meadows was used to fool husband Steve Allen, at least once (right after their marriage), as a Mystery Guest.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but Kilgallen's death comes closest to feeling "right" as any I've ever heard of. I hope it will be uncovered one day. I hope someone will step forward to tell the truth...if there is anyone left.
Yowzoe I think this year, 2017, is the year that documents from The Warren Commission are supposed to be de-classified. I wonder if they will be, and I wonder how many will be actually let out for public reading, be it in newspapers or magazines. I am hoping that the truth of President Kennedy's assassination is made known, but a few of the suspected people from the political world are STILL alive, although very elderly. I, for one, would like to more of the truth of that fateful day, November 22, 1963 before I leave this earth. There are some very interesting theories and film clips right here on the computer regarding that horrible event. See interviews of the prominent political families of the time, and up and coming dynasties. ..like the Bush family, for example. Also, don't forget Lyndon Johnson, who despised Kennedy. I was at the 1960 Democratic Party Convention, and the hatred between Kennedy and Johnson was more than apparent...
@@randysills4418 A lot is STILL classified (as of 2022). And so much is coming out about the CIA and FBI and Secret Service etc. and even the corruption of the media. So much dates from back then. I have listened to some of Kennedy’s speeches back then and then BOBBY was assassinated when it looked like he might get nominated. Even the death of JFK Jr. in a plane crash is surrounded by strange circumstances. What had HE found out about his father’s death? Was he going to run for the Senate? For the seat which Hillary eventually won? What did his mother think about things? Did she suspect it was an inside job? Is that why she married Onassis so she could keep her children safe on a Greek island? So many unanswered questions that inquiring minds still want to know!
Also, Jonathan Cerf & Peter Gabel appeared together as Mystery Guests on an episode, as well Peter Gabel solo on another occasion. And there was a show on which the four spouses, of whichever of the then-current panelists, appeared as Mystery Guests; as well two segments in which the agents & secretaries of the panelists appeared before their respective, blindfolded clients & employers.
We can find both of Fred Allen's mystery guest appearances on RUclips, as well as [his wife] Portland Hoffa's mystery guest appearance. We can find both of Gabel's Sunday night mystery guest appearances on RUclips -- they were spouse mystery guest gimmicks. Supposedly Gabel appeared as a mystery guest once in syndication. I have never seen it. Bennett Cerf appeared once as a mystery guest early in 1968 syndication. I have never seen it. Arlene never appeared as a mystery guest.
Two weeks before this live telecast, Dorothy Kilgallen attended Washington, DC fundraiser at National Guard Armory that Frank Sinatra had scheduled for the night before JFK's inaugural address. She also attended the inaugural address itself. Her chauffeur, Roosevelt Zanders, who owned a limo company in New York, accompanied Kilgallen from there to DC. Immediately after inaugural address ended, Zanders encouraged Kilgallen to return to New York even though she planned to cover inaugural ball.
You can tell from John Daly's initial expression after Arlene Francis said that Dorothy Kilgallen was nervous because she was sitting next to Daly that Daly for a moment thought that Arlene was making a critical comment about Daly, but then when she clarified her remark he then understood that she was complementing his handsomeness. You wonder where was Bennett Cerf when this episode of "What's My Line" was broadcast on TV back then? And was the reason that Dorothy was the mystery guest because she was on vacation at that time?
![What's My Line? - Final CBS Show; PANEL: Martin Gabel, Steve Allen (Sep 3, 1967) [W/ COMMERCIALS]](/img/1.gif)
Like many of you, I never knew Dorothy Kilgallen, John Daly or Arlene Francis before these "What's My Line?" clips and now they are like family. The show sparkles with warmth, intelligence, civility and good fun!
We need more of this. Calming, friendly, good fun and a serious touch of elegance.
Met these folks in person back in 1963.
Me too. There was a sense of decorum with the show which is sadly lacking in todays TV. I love watching these episodes.
She was murdered, cos she found out the truth about the Kennedy assassination after an interview with Jack Ruby, all of he notes of that interview also disappeared, she stated she was about to blow the lid off of Washington when she released what she knew.....big mistake
@@UKBIGBLUENATION1: Absolutely!!!!
*Dorothy has always been my favorite panelist. Classy, elegant and whip smart.*
Are you really Glen Hoddle? The legendary retired football player?
The whip smart part which got her murdered
She wasn’t smart enough to keep her mouth shut about Kennedy.
@@nulfater Nobody knows ahead of time if seeing or hearing something important to report would lead to that person's murder! She obviously heard something after interviewing Ruby in jail that convinced her the WC was a pack of government lies!
@@kiasky1 Disgusting, revolting comment!
Dorothy Kilgallen got quite the reception! I liked how she acknowledged the audience at the end.
Fascinating woman who seems forgotten about now. It's a shame. She was a trailblazer in many ways. They should do a movie on her life.
Yes!
On and off, for years, there has been talk about doing a movie about her life. But one of the problems is they wouldn't know how to end it, since her death was such a mystery.
Yes, they should do a movie about her!!!!
I've been saying this for years. A movie about her life would be fascinating. Even more so because I personally believe she was murdered due to what she knew about JFK's assassination.
hcombs0104 Too bad the CIA had her killed
Poor Dorothy did look under the weather there. And Arlene was so gracious to stand up while greeting her. I hope she got her well-deserved rest in Florida.
She just a baby
Love dorothy kilgallen a brave and courageous lady whose life was taken by those who refused to let the truth be written
Probably murdered while investigating the assassination of her friend John Kennedy
@@markross2124 definitely !!!!
Absolutely!
Truth and the beat is still going on 😢
Interesting that Debbie Reynolds, not one of the regular panel members, still managed to come up with the identity-revealing question. Smart lady! As for Dorothy, she was always my favorite on the panel. But in this episode, appearing as a nervous mystery guest still recovering from illness-Dorothy was extra endearing. How I miss the people on this show.
I like how at the end Dorothy tried to use a Gabor ish Hungarian accent like Debbie did
Especially when she tipped her head back to see under the blindfold at 2:27. It might have helped.
@@RH-cv1rg
Let's cut the crap.
Dorothy was so smart, elegant, and dainty. Not to mention so pretty! I absolutely love her!
OMG...This made me cry a little...why'd it do that? I dunno the details of Ms. Dorothy's illness, but it felt very much like a homecoming for her- especially when Arlene refers to her as "my dear girl." And it's probably the most vulnerable we've ever seen her- demure, sweet, and genuinely nervous- I think she tells Arlene she's scared to death, while holding on to the calming Mr. Daly. Welcome home, Dottie.
She had severe anemia
I just love these episodes, can’t get enough of them! I feel
I know the panelists; they were all so charming, classy, intelligent- yet never put on airs. So refreshing to see the elegance & respect they had for one another. It was a different time but sad that things are so changed now in society for the most part. Sorely missed 😔❤️
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this. As someone else posted, one can see how vulnerable she is here. She looks lovely.
Rest assured the game was never the same without her. Thank you again, Soulier.
I'd never heard of Dorothy Kilgallen until I started watching this channel. From the months I've been viewing and reading the comments, I've received quite a media history lesson on her. Thank you. What a fascinating figure. From what I've gleaned from the comments and history snippets, she had the touch of Capote in her, no? Meaning, once you start dishing about your friends in print, the relationship dynamics change. I'm gonna read up on her now.
Gina Greenlee Lee Israel wrote a good bio of Dorothy. Dorothy had a famous journalist dad and she followed most distinguishedly in his ink-spattered footsteps. Miss Israel wrote the book in early '70's, within the decade of Dorothy's passing, and she suspected, and didn't mind saying it, that there was serious doubt about the reasons behind Dorothy's death. I got my copy on Amazon for $ 4.
+iamintheburg I didn't know anything at all about Dorothy (I'm a Brit) but I looked her up on Wiki several months back and found her fascinating. I just read the Lee Israel book and although obviously very troubled she was an astonishing and incredibly talented woman of great contradictions. The men in her life,Richard and Johnnie were terrible influences. She looks ill on this after coming out of one of her rehabs. I have no doubt she was murdered to silence her. By the time of her death she'd largely shaken off the two drunks and I think even greater stardom was coming her way if she could get healthy
Colin Leonard In fact I am at the library right this moment. I'm going to check to see if they have the Lee Israel book.
iamintheburg Thank you, I'm going to check for the Lee Israel book right now at the library where I am typing this note.
+Gina Greenlee I hope you found it, and happy reading !
RIP Dorothy Kilgallen 1913-1965.
I like how Arlene showed some interest in Dorothy's well being. Like saying "my dear girl, how are you?" and saying "we're so glad to see you" In one clip somewhere, a poster had thought Dorothy had low-self esteem. I think she had a bit of low-self esteem especially with talk of her and Johnnie Ray, like maybe she thought no one cared about her except him. I wonder what her kids thought around that time. It was nice to see that Arlene showed that she was concerned for her.
Ĺp
She died young because she was about to expose some truth. She was courageous, smart, and dedicated.
We need truth-seeking investigative journalists like her in the mainstream media today!
Lovely surprise to see this out there……. Dorothy is my favourite on the show…… may she rest in peace….. Arlene Francis too…..
I've watched several episodes of this show on RUclips, and Dorothy and Arlene were excellent panelists. Both very bright, and it was sometimes pretty incredible how quickly they could guess both occupations and celebrities. Very good show, and no wonder the original group lasted for 17 years. if they were back in their respective primes and on Sunday nights right now, I would be a regular viewer.
+WATCHMAN 117 Just to make one slight correction. Three were NOT the original group of 4 panelists when it started on Feb. 2, 1950. They were: Dorothy Kilgallen, former Gov. Harold Hoffman (NJ), poet Louis Untermeyer, and psychiatrist Richard Hoffmann.
Yes Dorothy is my favourite too- I must get the biography by Mark Shaw(. Unsure of his name) Read snippets from it in the press
I've become fascinated with Dorothy and just read the biography "Kilgallen."
It was an exciting and sad story but the life she lived was full and vibrant.
That was a beautiful dress she was wearing.
Thanks for sharing that the biography exists, I think I will give it a read
I agree. I really liked her dress, too.
Just kinda want to reiterate something that often gets lost when it comes to the panel's feelings on Dorothy. They adored her and loved her, like family. She was an incredibly sweet person, though troubled. The family of WML did however feel need to later on put a little distance between themselves and Dorothy, because of the gossip tidbits that Dorothy would write-up. They all admired her journalistic work on newsworthy stories, but there was a shift in her writing. That's where the panel had to put up a thin wall. But they loved her genuinely. Arlene noted on the evening they finished WML taping, the night Dorothy died, it was the first night EVER in the 15 years of Sunday's that Dorothy did not kiss her goodnight on the cheek. That stayed with her. These folks were family in every sense of the word.
+Lorna -- you may want to listen to Bennett Cerf's 5-part interview on RUclips.
He speaks at some length about Dorothy's messy relationship with the panel.
I've read that Dorothy's conservative politics was another cause of friction, especially with Bennett and Arlene, who reportedly preferred hanging with the more liberal NYC literati and arts crowd. Strange, since this was also Dorothy's principal beat for her column. Also, Bennett intensely disliked Hal Block (one of the original panelists, I think), whom he regarded as coarse and unsophisticated compared with the rest of the panel.
Well back then even Democrats didn't seem as nasty as today. Conservatives generally still stick with morals and country. Believe it or not, used to be more popular to follow Founding ideas. Not sure why that would bother Democrats voting for JFK back then.
Can you tell me why Dorothy was troubled? I started watching the WML episodes a few weeks ago and became fascinated with her. I even bought Shaw’s book about her though I haven’t read it yet. I was born in the 50’s and her generation is very interesting to me.
Thank you for sharing that. You must have had some contact with the show, or someone who did. In any case, it's nice to hear such classy things about these people.
While this is a little off topic, I feel deeply that Debbie Reynolds must have been an amazing person. I base that on her off stage life, and particularly on what happened when her daughter died. May God bless her.
"Yes, and you might even SING for us, Dorothy!" lol - Arlene (as always, SUCH wit from Our Ms. Francis) 🌺🌲🌳🌳🌲
Wow, this is exceptionally endearing footage of Dorothy, isn't it? I mean, I like Dorothy anyway but she seems so vulnerable here, you know?
Dorothy was my favorite panelists
This show would never be on today's television...its too classy and intelligent!
One thing that does come across, at least to me is how fond that in fact that John, Arlene, Bennett, Dorothy were of each other. Especially after Dorothy's death.
Wonderful! Brought a tear to my eyes!
Loved Dorothy as guest and panelist.
So many secrets about her death and her life at that time. Amazing lady who died trying to report REAL NEWS
THANKS!!!!!!!!
Dorothy Kilgallen is great,I love her!
What a great program that was; one that is much missed.
i love the way the panel says goodnight at the end of each show so sweet :)
I know what's my line ,started before I was born, but I just throughly enjoy watching it in reruns
Started before I was born but continued so i could see the final two years (1965-67), but is neither here nor there, or important on what year it started! The point is, it is now available to see on YT for anyone who wants to and I hope more people catch the WML? fever! It is that good, and as a bonus, you get to see the last of the Golden Age of Hollywood (and NY) celebrities, in all their glory from 1950-67, and some political office holders, some well-known, others in a local capacity! And the sports figures: baseball, football, boxing, etc.! What a wonderful era it was that WML? mostly covered in its 876 total episodes, with most of them available to see from their Feb. 2, 1950 start, through its sad Sep. 3, 1967 end!
Love Dorothy! ❤️❤️❤️
Met Dorothy Kilgallen's son today....he is a great guy! Super awesome sense of humor!!
Did you meet Kerry in the company of his daughter Molly who is a fitness trainer and weightlifter? She is Dorothy’s granddaughter. Please summarize the circumstances of you meeting Dorothy’s son. Thanking you in advance! Stay safe.
@@kathrynfauble9053 I met him, not his daughter.
@@januarykaygreen6949Did Kerry discuss karate with you? I ask because from 1991 until the early 2000s, he was well-known in the Atlanta suburbs of Marietta and Alpharetta for teaching his unique mix of karate, judo and other martial arts. He called his business “Martial Hearts.” He was trying to help women defend themselves against possible rapists. If self-defense was not what you discussed with Kerry, did your conversation have to do with stray dogs? Here is a RUclips link to a video from 2016 with Kerry Kollmar going into detail about an Atlanta animal shelter that never puts a creature to sleep. ruclips.net/video/rfyVpB285fs/видео.html
I never would have believed that people would be talking about Dorothy in the 21st century. In fact, I didn't know for certain I would still be here. But thanks to technology, and thanks to my life-saving double bypass , all of that is possible.
Yes, strange to talk about and to like someone who died even before I was born.
I wish I could get a copy of the book "Girl Around The World" written by Dorothy Kilgallen. In the book she wrote about a competiton to travel around the world as fast as they could. Each competitor was allowed to use only commercially available public transportations back in the mid 30s. And she was the only female to be in the contest; she came back in the second. Though I realize she still remains a controversial figure, I adore her along with her friend Arlene Francis.
What a fascinating woman who was absolutely brilliant. People still want answers as to what really happened to her. I believe there is enough evidence to keep investigating her death.
You don’t know?
Oops!! Terribly sorry (as JCD would say, prefacing a 'small conference')- I never thanked you, Soulier. This particular clip is wonderful, and this 47-year-old vintage television junkie appreciates it.
I believed her when she said she was scared to death. You could see it in her eyes when she first sat down. She was so rattled and worried that she wouldnt be able to pull it off. I love these old shows when TV was TV.
It's like eavesdropping on old friends. So grand to see. I missed Bennett. And Tony Perkins, just wow. Wonderful
And thank you for posting all your WML clips for us to enjoy.
"Do you feel queer on that side?" haha how words change.
Sad, really.
She was a fascinating woman.
Dorothy Kilgallen was such a lovely woman.
I can't help but notice the way Arlene eyes lingered on Dorothy as she was walking away in a "worried, protective mama" way.
I know it was said that they've all distanced themselves from her in later years, but I still get that vibe that Arlene cared for her a lot regardless.
Selina Kyle
arlene and Dorothy always followed the guests with their eyes on their way out.
They didn’t distance themselves from Dorothy, she passed away, Nov 8th, 1965, while still sitting on the panel of the show. In fact she had just finished filming their live show just a few hours before she died.
They didn’t distance themselves from Dorothy, she passed away, Nov 8th, 1965, while still sitting on the panel of the show. In fact she had just finished filming their live show just a few hours before she died.
@@Dominators391 They did distance themselves slightly towards the end due to her gossipy writing
Scared to lose their lives so they deserted a “friend “ when she was most in need. Don’t know how anyone could live with themselves. Cowards
Such a better time to live than now...so much more inncocent.
Segregation and no civil rights was innocent?
@@illusionistdave1 Segregation in 11 States out of 50. 22%, with blacks less than 13% of the total population then nationwide; those affected in the 11 Southern States were probably less than 7% of the entire population. Still, a horrible thing to those affected, but in 1965, official State segregation was eliminated after the Civil Rights Act the previous year. So, your point was passe by 1965, and the Voting Rights Act that year. My question to the affected blacks was: why didn't more of them move OUT of those official segregated law States, and to the freer North or Western States? Do people usually stay for decades in dilapidated or bad areas, as they did, when they could have moved elsewhere? But the immorality of racial segregation was practically ended by then, and the Southern DEMOCRATS who supported forced segregation were finally thrown out of both Houses of Congress! Interestingly, now there is a push for blacks themselves to separate into their own schools, sports teams, housing places, etc.! Sounds like they are now the ones who oppose integration, but that is their right if they want to, of their own free will! If the government left the people alone, instead of MANDATING segregation, by FORCE of LAW, people would make up their own minds who to associate with, who to live with, who to marry, and who to do business with. Any of them who refuse to do business with the other race(s), only hurt themselves, as the saying goes: "green (currency), is a powerful weapon to give-up (more) income, just to not serve a race you dislike!"
BTW the dress Dorothy is wearing here dates back to 1957. The hem was hiked up a bit here, because by 1961 the hemlines were at the knee.
I just love this program so grateful for these clips.
Very sweet; she was so beloved. ❤
That girl peeked through the bottom of the glasses. Then she asked dorothy about newspaper writing
Quite interesting, and entertaining. Thanks very much for taking the time to post the whole show.
Dorothy was one of the first to stand up and say that Dr. Sam Shepard was innocent. The Judge at the trial told her that he knew Sam was guilty. This was before the trial ever began.
Regardless of the many negative things said about Dorothy, she seemed very lovable and sweet
a brilliant wonderful woman a brilliant reporter. RIP🙏🏻
Thanks very much for sharing this.
The more I read about Dorothy the more fascinating she becomes! What an intelligent person. And while I can understand why the panel had to put up a thin wall, as Lorna Baden states below, I am sure it hurt Dorothy. I do hope she had at least a few good friends. She deserved them. Her husband, from what I’ve read, imbibed in liquor too much, and was no longer someone she was close to. That’s why he was sleeping on the 4th floor the night she died. I suspect if she was not such a devout Catholic she would have divorced him. I’m going to continue to read up on her. There was something in the news lately about Shaw, the man who wrote about her. I think he was trying to get her cause of death re-examined, but I am not sure. He’s the only person left who is still fighting for her.
Thank you so very much for posting this !
These 'trick' mystery guests are so much fun to watch. Dorothy looked so good here, at 47. One of the most unfortunate passings in (Nov. 8) 1965, at only 52. It's not a coincidence that WML? was canceled (Sep. 1967) less than 2 years after her death.
Because the show had been on since 1950 I think it would have been cancelled, anyway, but Dorothy's death took the wind out of the WML? sail, didn't it? I have never watched the kinescopes of the show after her death, because without her there's something missing. She really brought something unique to the show. Sort of the same reason I don't watch reruns of The Lucy Show after Vivian Vance left.
@@freeguy77 I agree!
Yes, it would have been cancelled anyway, but it was a surprise to the panel. But all the shows of that type were cancelled at the same time. I often wondered why I had never seen that show until I came across it a few years ago and then binged on it! I grew up in South Africa until 1961 then was in college and graduate school (journalism) with no TV until I was married the month after they were cancelled! We would have enjoyed that show!
Arlene looks gorgeous in this one.
She always does
I started watching these shows because of Dorothy's interview of Jack Ruby. Plus she said she was goibg to come out with blockbuster news. That's why she was done in. There was a recent book done about her investigation.
Yep she was silenced. Such a shame. And Mr Daly Father in law was Judge Warren of the Warren Commission. None of the costars spoke out because they must have been living in fear of how easy it is to be taken out.
@@Yahowah777 That was interesting when I found that out. She was so outspoken against the findings of the Warren Commission! But I did find out that Warren himself wanted nothing to do with the Commission. It was forced upon him by President Johnson, who wanted the the whole matter resolved in the minds of the public as soon as possible. It was strange that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed on live television before he could talk. I do remember looking into that as a college student and never believed the narrative we were fed. It would be so interesting to know what the panel members thought about Kennedy’s death and the Warren Commission’s findings! Especially since powers-that-be, including the FBI, were pushing their narrative and failed to interview many of the witnesses.
@@Yahowah777 Daly (b. Feb. 20, 1914 in Johannesburg, South Africa) married Virginia Warren (b. 1928), then 32, on Dec. 22, 1960 (Daly was 46 then), died on Feb. 24, 1991, of cardiac arrest, four days after his 77th birthday. Virginia Warren Daly died on Feb. 19, 2009, at 80.
I wish this was one of the best. Shows ever shown
I have been watching these for a couple of years then learned about her death. Wow.
Arlenes ensemble looks very current by todays fashion standards. Stunning
I like Dorothy good, but Arlene is easily my favorite panelist. Such wit and class.
Those were the Golden Days! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
And it's interesting to finally see Dorothy on the other side of the fence in this..and i love her little squeaks for yes and no..how entertaining. I wish the panel hadn't guessed her quickly, or atleast up to $45 then be guessed..lol I would have loved to see how long she would last up and there and what other voices she would do..lol And she really did look scared, that poor thing..lol
They could have been guessing a while longer about newspapers because they didn’t know she was well enough to be there in person.
I grew up with them. Loved them. I fancied them to be my family as I didn’t like mine.
Well put. Well written. Whoever prescribed those barbs did Dorothy a world of hurt. Alcohol is a drug too. It is interesting to speculate what Dorothy's newsreporting career could have evolved into if the drugs hadn't taken a toll on her -- and killed her at a young age.
@soulierinvestments Possibly Dorothy drank a lot sometimes, but the medical examiner found no evidence that she had abused barbiturates. If she had a prescription for one type of barbiturate, such as Seconal, how does that prove she swallowed the capsules on the night she died? The autopsy showed that three different types of barbiturates were in her system. Her drinking glass had powder residue. Those details do not indicate long-term addiction. They indicate she was drinking cocktails with someone she knew, and that person poisoned her drink. @soulierinvestments is ignorant. Why was Dorothy’s body discovered sitting up in a bed she never used, in a master bedroom where she always felt uncomfortable, with the bedcovers neatly tucked into the bed? It looked as if someone had made the bed with her in it. What’s up with that?
@okonh0wp Martin Gabel was an actor, primarily stage I believe. He was also one of the most fortunate men alive as he was married to Arlene Francis.
Thanks. I enjoyed this. A treat.
Wait why was Dorothy in the hospital???
I was soo happy to see Debbie Reynolds on the panel!!
She's such a great woman.
Arlene looked really REALLY pretty in this episode.
Like she always does. :]
Debbie could have stood up to give Dorothy a hug or something.
Dorothy looks so pretty when she smiles. Makes me think of "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling..." So sad her untimely death in 1965. Perhaps we will never know whether it was accident or foul play (it is said she was about to break explosive revelations about the JFK assassination).
She was murdered. That's a fact. You need to read up on it.
Dorothy Kilgallen appears as Flo Kilgore in three Max Allan Collins novels in which PI Nathan Heller gets caught up in the mysteries surrounding JFK and his assassination. I've read only ASK NOT as of yet, but the character is excellent, and so is the book.
I'm all for the truth coming out, and her death does seem to fit a pattern. Anyone who thinks covert political assassinations do not take place is severely closing their eyes to history.
I'd really love to see some old-timer come forward with information.
Any word on that movie on her death? Apparently it is being dropped.
I love that one guy in the crowd making the loudest noise.
That was Dorothy's husband....LOL.
I know there's so much controversy around Dorothy's death. But just watch her on this show and enjoy who she was when she was alive. Just let her rest in peace.
TV from an era where class and more was worth more than being able to go on TV any time you want and yell at a country for not voting as you demand they do.
soulierinvestments, I was looking everywhere for your usual informative tidbit comment and realised YOU posted this video haha.. thank you thank you thank you soooo very much!!! I've heard you talking about a DK mystery guest WML before and couldn't wait to see it and it certainly didn't disapoint!
I liked her squeaks...
They were all peeking under their blindfolds!!!
omggg im getting ready to watch this!! the episode i have been waiting for for the longest time!!!!!
Actually, the dates of those broadcasts were 1/07/1965 for Kilgallens last WML? appearance, 11/14/1965 for the Kilgallen tribute episode, one day off in each case.
But Kilgallens official, last appearance on TV was a pre-recorded episode of the daytime To Tell The Truth on the very day of her death (11/08/1965), in which she & Arlene Francis appeared in disguises (voices also altered) as contestants, with actress Joan Crawford, the object for the panel to guess the real Crawford.
Stupidity running amok, the tape of Arlene and Dorothy was erased after the broadcast.
Anthony Perkins’s question asked if she was in “a moving picture.” A little dated for 1961.
she could also be called "Dorothy, the singing reporter." lol
How did Debbie Reynolds immediately ask, " are you in a field other than acting?"
For such an iconic and sharp minded woman Dorothy certainly had a messy personal life. Caught her husband in the act with another man at their park avenue brownstone, agreed to maintain the marriage for professional reasons, had her third child with singer Johnny Ray who was also gay, the child who was later disowned by her husband, and later had an ongoing affair with Ohio newspaper columnist Ron Pataky whom Dorothy suspected was CIA and who many believe was responsible for her death because of her involvement and investigative research into the Kennedy assassination.
Unbelievable!!!!!! Never knew this?!!!!!!!
Dorothy's sister is still alive at 94+ - Elinor in NYC. Was Warren Beatty's early agent when he appeared in his TV appearance on Kraft Theatre, my friend Marion Dougherty told me.
I looked her up and she died in late 2014, aged 95 :(
+Matthew Plato Thnx didnt know that Elinor passed - piom and proper lady I heard.
@MegaObserver1 Bennett Cerf appeared as a mystery guest early in syndicated WML. Martin Gabel appeared as a mystery guest in 1960 and 1965 when the producers tried the gimmick of putting the spouses of the panel on as mystery guest. RUclips has both of those clips under heading of "What's My Line spouses."
Her handwriting is unmatched
I Know!!! It just seems so wrong! They are so cute and it makes it so much better when they are together!
I don't think they had guessed it was Dorothy before she said that the bit at the end. She should have kept with the little mouse squeaks.
I also seem to recall a segment in which at least one of Kilgallens young children appeared as one among several Mystery Guests.
And I know Edie Adams was a Mystery Guest, but not sure if during Kovacs' brief stint as panelist. I know Jayne Meadows was used to fool husband Steve Allen, at least once (right after their marriage), as a Mystery Guest.
she knew who killed kennedy
Why did she not put it in an envelope for someone to find it, tell her husband, mail it to the FBI, etc?
Why she was murdered.
ROBERT DIOTALEVI her husband was afraid for his own life after that. He claimed he destroyed all her files.
@@nelsontoondrawer7618 the FBI took her files . The government hired the mob and that's obviously why jack ruby got involved
Well, I dont know about that!
The look on Dorothy's face when she sits down, you can tell she looks uncomfortable or awkward..lol
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but Kilgallen's death comes closest to feeling "right" as any I've ever heard of.
I hope it will be uncovered one day. I hope someone will step forward to tell the truth...if there is anyone left.
Yowzoe I think this year, 2017, is the year that documents from The Warren Commission are supposed to be de-classified. I wonder if they will be, and I wonder how many will be actually let out for public reading, be it in newspapers or magazines. I am hoping that the truth of President Kennedy's assassination is made known, but a few of the suspected people from the political world are STILL alive, although very elderly. I, for one, would like to more of the truth of that fateful day, November 22, 1963 before I leave this earth. There are some very interesting theories and film clips right here on the computer regarding that horrible event. See interviews of the prominent political families of the time, and up and coming dynasties. ..like the Bush family, for example. Also, don't forget Lyndon Johnson, who despised Kennedy. I was at the 1960 Democratic Party Convention, and the hatred between Kennedy and Johnson was more than apparent...
@@randysills4418 A lot is STILL classified (as of 2022). And so much is coming out about the CIA and FBI and Secret Service etc. and even the corruption of the media. So much dates from back then. I have listened to some of Kennedy’s speeches back then and then BOBBY was assassinated when it looked like he might get nominated. Even the death of JFK Jr. in a plane crash is surrounded by strange circumstances. What had HE found out about his father’s death? Was he going to run for the Senate? For the seat which Hillary eventually won? What did his mother think about things? Did she suspect it was an inside job? Is that why she married Onassis so she could keep her children safe on a Greek island? So many unanswered questions that inquiring minds still want to know!
Also, Jonathan Cerf & Peter Gabel appeared together as Mystery Guests on an episode, as well Peter Gabel solo on another occasion.
And there was a show on which the four spouses, of whichever of the then-current panelists, appeared as Mystery Guests; as well two segments in which the agents & secretaries of the panelists appeared before their respective, blindfolded clients & employers.
We can find both of Fred Allen's mystery guest appearances on RUclips, as well as [his wife] Portland Hoffa's mystery guest appearance.
We can find both of Gabel's Sunday night mystery guest appearances on RUclips -- they were spouse mystery guest gimmicks.
Supposedly Gabel appeared as a mystery guest once in syndication. I have never seen it.
Bennett Cerf appeared once as a mystery guest early in 1968 syndication. I have never seen it.
Arlene never appeared as a mystery guest.
what a cast it had that night
Two weeks before this live telecast, Dorothy Kilgallen attended Washington, DC fundraiser at National Guard Armory that Frank Sinatra had scheduled for the night before JFK's inaugural address. She also attended the inaugural address itself. Her chauffeur, Roosevelt Zanders, who owned a limo company in New York, accompanied Kilgallen from there to DC.
Immediately after inaugural address ended, Zanders encouraged Kilgallen to return to New York even though she planned to cover inaugural ball.
You can tell from John Daly's initial expression after Arlene Francis said that Dorothy Kilgallen was nervous because she was sitting next to Daly that Daly for a moment thought that Arlene was making a critical comment about Daly, but then when she clarified her remark he then understood that she was complementing his handsomeness. You wonder where was Bennett Cerf when this episode of "What's My Line" was broadcast on TV back then? And was the reason that Dorothy was the mystery guest because she was on vacation at that time?