@@kgjhskgskgskgskdgfsk How can you tell that? Honest question. Actually, I kind of hear what you're talking about. She's very quick on the ornaments, quicker than I've ever heard before.
It's always fun to see how the performers interpret music like this, where ornamentation and a little improvisation is expected. I really think that kind of thing should be explored in modern art music.
You can tell they pay attention to detail when all 8th note pairs become a dotted 8th and sixteenth in actual performance, which was a known "thing" to do back in the day for French music specifically. Vivaldi tried to imitate this rhythm in his overtures "Alla Francese" where he'd specifically write out this rhythm which was an un-notated but ubiquitous practice in France.
This is incredible sacred music. It’s a pleasure to listen to a performer really go for the ornamentation like they would have back in the day. Plenty of evidence for heavy ornamentation and so few today can manage it, even though it was considered crucial in being a good musician.
I’m not sure how historically informed/justified is the execution of the written ornaments in this interpretation, but I love them. They sound almost Byzantine at times. And the male three-voice verses sound like Georgian traditional music. And regardless, the musically and the beauty of the voices are off the charts. Very enjoyable.
Byzantine chant is not particularly melismatic. Baroque singing, on the other hand, can be exceptionally melismatic depending on the particular time and place.
@@karlpoppins oh I know lol I sing early music for a living haha I just meant that the execution of the ornaments is different than what I’m used to hearing. An interesting choice/evolution in modern performance practice of this repertoire
Actually it's more accurate than a strict interpretation of what is written, because it was common at the time for the singers to add diminutions (it s quite difficult to translate all i learned about this, but shortly is about the "affect" / emotions of the piece)
Excellent ornaments! I'm slightly confused by the very French pronunciation of the "u" and "e" (in words like "semper") vowels--is that for historical accuracy, or an idiosyncrasy of this ensemble? Otherwise, a really lovely performance!
The pronunciation of Latin is unfortunately very inconsistent internationally. So either the singers mispronounce it this way because they are French or because they believe this is how Latin was pronounced at the time considering that the composer is French and nobody spoke Latin natively in the 1700s anymore.
I’m familiar with germanic latin pronunciation, the most common italienate pronunciation, and yep french latin pronunciation although I’m less familiar with this last one and I’ve never been asked to sing with it. They all stem from some sort of historically informed performance practice, but I don’t really know all the details. I like it, there’s sooooo much music in Latin and this gives a different sound world to hear pieces with.
I think it is purposefully "frenchified" to represent the way ecclesiastical Latin was pronounced back in the day in France. I have heard this same consistent pronunciation here in France in baroque music and I really like it! It sounds harder to sing than Italian or German pronunciations, though. I found a couple of links with explanations about regional specific variations of Latin, if you're interested: In baroque music: coll-mus-lon.org.uk/pronunciation/french.pdf In general: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation
@@olivier.gagnon Italienate pronunciation is just standard ecclesiastical latin right? I was unaware that there where several hip ways for singing latin, though it makes complete sense as latin had long ceased to be a living language by that point and singers would sing in the pronunciation they grew up with.
@@gregoryborton6598 Yes, Italianate = Standard Ecclesiastical. But that pronunciation standard was only adopted in the 20th century. (And the idea of pronouncing Latin *any* different from the vernacular didn’t come around until the 8th century)
The final chorus is simply a recapitulation of the first two lines of the psalm to the recurring psalm setting: Line 1 "Miserere mei" etc. is set to part A of the chant, then line 2 "Et secundum" etc is set to A and then B, as per the first chorus at 1'23". Sort of like an antiphon. An artistic choice, I suppose - I don't know whether there's any historical or liturgical precedent for doing this, but it creates a nice book-end.
From a purely technical point of view, it is quite interesting ro see how residual modal harmonies and progressions mix with modern tonality (eg in G minor alternate or chained use of F and F#). This specific practice by such great composers as Charpentier or Delalande is a typical signature od the late baroque religious French music
The recording you're referencing in the description doesn't include the choruses (at least not in the version I was able to find on Spotify). Are they performed by the same ensemble?
What's the name of the style when he repeats the same chord structure and changes de lyrics? I think it has a name that comes from renascence music? Can anyone answer me this? Thanks
I wonder when the early music community are going to admit that there are no historical evidence for singing with a straight tone, but numerous sources stating the opposite; and I wonder when the early music fandom will discover that the notion that early music should be sung sans vibrato was made up during the second half of the 20th century - which is also when the modern pure falsetto countertenor was invented. Which leads us to the hooty falsetto dominated timbre early music singers persist to favour, despite the fact that falsetto was seen as a false voice - hence the name.
Just wait until you point out that the concept of 'Baroque pitch' is laughable because there was no consistent tuning until at least the 1800s - the pitch of the local church organ would change with the weather, brass players would have instruments tuned to A455, singers and winds just kind of adapted and went with it. There was literally no consistency, and that somehow turned into "play it a half step down, that'll make it authentic". I may have an issue with the whole 'early music' school of playing as a rule, mostly because it's almost entirely nonsense.
@@MartyMusic777 I would point out that the pedantry goes both ways here -- thinking of modern musicians with "perfect pitch" who insist that A *must* be 440hz. Also, I doubt that many groups play with their tuning pitches just to be historical. Think of string instruments which used gut strings (which has different sound properties to steel and other metals). Gut can favor a lower tension (lower pitch), and playing with tension can adjust the overall sound (warmer/bolder/etc.). Many french ensembles go as low as A=393hz, and I find this really brings out a warm harmony. Not all groups insist on going lower; I believe some Venetian early music is played with higher pitch than A=440hz, perhaps to add to the boldness
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Her ornaments are SOOOOO good! Absolutely beautiful 💐
Too bad they are really autotuned… The whole recording sounds castrated just because of the autotune
@@kgjhskgskgskgskdgfsk How can you tell that? Honest question.
Actually, I kind of hear what you're talking about. She's very quick on the ornaments, quicker than I've ever heard before.
@@kgjhskgskgskgskdgfsk for hearing Claire Lefilliatre in concert, it s absolutely not autotuned 😉
This is what happens when you sing with proper technique for the time, with controlled, non-sloppy non-romantic vibrato.
Listen their albums Nova Metamorfosi and Emilio dei Cavalieri's lamentations. De ornaments are prodigious!!!!!
It's always fun to see how the performers interpret music like this, where ornamentation and a little improvisation is expected. I really think that kind of thing should be explored in modern art music.
You can tell they pay attention to detail when all 8th note pairs become a dotted 8th and sixteenth in actual performance, which was a known "thing" to do back in the day for French music specifically. Vivaldi tried to imitate this rhythm in his overtures "Alla Francese" where he'd specifically write out this rhythm which was an un-notated but ubiquitous practice in France.
This is incredible sacred music. It’s a pleasure to listen to a performer really go for the ornamentation like they would have back in the day. Plenty of evidence for heavy ornamentation and so few today can manage it, even though it was considered crucial in being a good musician.
You share beauty, and you shall be rewarded, if not in this life, surely in the next one.
Cómo se puede concebir tanta belleza. Es una auténtica delicia versallesca.
This music is kind of inspiring. Very interesting listening.
This is how this type of music is meant to be sung, smooth, little vibrato, the ornaments and grace notes standing out ever the brighter.
Never heard tihs one before, BEAUTIFUL!!!
Merci !
Fantastic ensemble
I’m not sure how historically informed/justified is the execution of the written ornaments in this interpretation, but I love them. They sound almost Byzantine at times. And the male three-voice verses sound like Georgian traditional music.
And regardless, the musically and the beauty of the voices are off the charts. Very enjoyable.
Byzantine chant is not particularly melismatic. Baroque singing, on the other hand, can be exceptionally melismatic depending on the particular time and place.
@@karlpoppins oh I know lol I sing early music for a living haha I just meant that the execution of the ornaments is different than what I’m used to hearing. An interesting choice/evolution in modern performance practice of this repertoire
Actually it's more accurate than a strict interpretation of what is written, because it was common at the time for the singers to add diminutions (it s quite difficult to translate all i learned about this, but shortly is about the "affect" / emotions of the piece)
@@jean-francoisdaignault9612 it sounds very normal for french baroque if you've listened to much de brossard or compsoers like that!
Excellent ornaments! I'm slightly confused by the very French pronunciation of the "u" and "e" (in words like "semper") vowels--is that for historical accuracy, or an idiosyncrasy of this ensemble? Otherwise, a really lovely performance!
The pronunciation of Latin is unfortunately very inconsistent internationally. So either the singers mispronounce it this way because they are French or because they believe this is how Latin was pronounced at the time considering that the composer is French and nobody spoke Latin natively in the 1700s anymore.
I’m familiar with germanic latin pronunciation, the most common italienate pronunciation, and yep french latin pronunciation although I’m less familiar with this last one and I’ve never been asked to sing with it. They all stem from some sort of historically informed performance practice, but I don’t really know all the details. I like it, there’s sooooo much music in Latin and this gives a different sound world to hear pieces with.
I think it is purposefully "frenchified" to represent the way ecclesiastical Latin was pronounced back in the day in France. I have heard this same consistent pronunciation here in France in baroque music and I really like it! It sounds harder to sing than Italian or German pronunciations, though.
I found a couple of links with explanations about regional specific variations of Latin, if you're interested:
In baroque music: coll-mus-lon.org.uk/pronunciation/french.pdf
In general: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation
@@olivier.gagnon Italienate pronunciation is just standard ecclesiastical latin right? I was unaware that there where several hip ways for singing latin, though it makes complete sense as latin had long ceased to be a living language by that point and singers would sing in the pronunciation they grew up with.
@@gregoryborton6598 Yes, Italianate = Standard Ecclesiastical. But that pronunciation standard was only adopted in the 20th century. (And the idea of pronouncing Latin *any* different from the vernacular didn’t come around until the 8th century)
lovely😍
She has a great ear.
her ornaments are so satisfying to listen to :)
The final chorus is simply a recapitulation of the first two lines of the psalm to the recurring psalm setting: Line 1 "Miserere mei" etc. is set to part A of the chant, then line 2 "Et secundum" etc is set to A and then B, as per the first chorus at 1'23". Sort of like an antiphon. An artistic choice, I suppose - I don't know whether there's any historical or liturgical precedent for doing this, but it creates a nice book-end.
From a purely technical point of view, it is quite interesting ro see how residual modal harmonies and progressions mix with modern tonality (eg in G minor alternate or chained use of F and F#). This specific practice by such great composers as Charpentier or Delalande is a typical signature od the late baroque religious French music
bonjour, sautant aux yeux dans les trois tierces majeures consécutives descendantes (en sol mineur donc) fa-la mib-sol re-fa#
I'm such a sucker for the descending ground bass @ 6:58
then check the Charpentier’s Magnificat: ruclips.net/video/busCmvtq0tw/видео.html :)
One of the IMSLP scores claims to be complete “with choruses added”. But I can’t verify since I can’t access as a member to download the file.
You just wait 15 seconds then you can click the download and look at it.
The recording you're referencing in the description doesn't include the choruses (at least not in the version I was able to find on Spotify). Are they performed by the same ensemble?
It looks like the full recording is not available on spotify. It is on youtube at ruclips.net/video/ZZ5pk0GfYG8/видео.html
@@Cmaj7 Thank you!
is this on Apple Music?
What's the name of the style when he repeats the same chord structure and changes de lyrics? I think it has a name that comes from renascence music? Can anyone answer me this? Thanks
Like at minute 10 and 21
Actually this piece is a kind of rondo between this ideia and something else
I'm assuming this piece would have originally been sung by a Castrato.
Ténèbres were usually sung by women.
I made a mistake, this isn't tenebres but a miserere... but ut was also intended for a woman.
beginning, 04:58, 09:12!,
Is that... Searle?
Who?
@@Cmaj7 "S. 87", is that Searle? I thought that catalog was exclusive to Liszt...?
@@cadenzalien4554 No, it's Lionel Sawkins.
@@miro.georgiev97 Ahhh, I see now
lol i thought of the same thing
I love 16:06
gut
I wonder when the early music community are going to admit that there are no historical evidence for singing with a straight tone, but numerous sources stating the opposite; and I wonder when the early music fandom will discover that the notion that early music should be sung sans vibrato was made up during the second half of the 20th century - which is also when the modern pure falsetto countertenor was invented. Which leads us to the hooty falsetto dominated timbre early music singers persist to favour, despite the fact that falsetto was seen as a false voice - hence the name.
Just wait until you point out that the concept of 'Baroque pitch' is laughable because there was no consistent tuning until at least the 1800s - the pitch of the local church organ would change with the weather, brass players would have instruments tuned to A455, singers and winds just kind of adapted and went with it. There was literally no consistency, and that somehow turned into "play it a half step down, that'll make it authentic".
I may have an issue with the whole 'early music' school of playing as a rule, mostly because it's almost entirely nonsense.
@@MartyMusic777 Indeed. There is even an orchestra that is called Ensemble 415 to notify that they really mean business being "authentic".
@@MartyMusic777 I would point out that the pedantry goes both ways here -- thinking of modern musicians with "perfect pitch" who insist that A *must* be 440hz.
Also, I doubt that many groups play with their tuning pitches just to be historical. Think of string instruments which used gut strings (which has different sound properties to steel and other metals). Gut can favor a lower tension (lower pitch), and playing with tension can adjust the overall sound (warmer/bolder/etc.). Many french ensembles go as low as A=393hz, and I find this really brings out a warm harmony. Not all groups insist on going lower; I believe some Venetian early music is played with higher pitch than A=440hz, perhaps to add to the boldness
but it sounds lovely.
@@MartyMusic777 I'm 100 % on your team. There were even regions where the tuning was a minor third HIGHER than today.
Yay! First!
Yay! First, too, on the Moron Aisle in the local supermarket!!
Sorry.....😬