Nocturne is just a champ that suffers from the "completely useless if it weren't for the ult" archetype like Skarner and Twisted Fate. Diana actually had this same issue to until they reworked her a couple years ago and now she's fairly popular.
I was just thinking about why he is in this series when I see him so often and then you have to stab me in the heart by calling him a "low-elo stomper"
@@Atanatari165 competitive games are about rising to the top for a reason. no one cares what wrecks lol elo so it has high pick there, if it isnt truly competitive viable
As a former jungler - nocturne was my staple on quick jumping through silver and gold and most of plat divisions. Yet he becomes waay less reliable later. You have to snowball each game on him to effectively climb. And even in clashes it found quite a decent place with sertain combos.
This. In exchange, he becomes a nightmare (pun intended) for the enemy team if ahead. They can't push the sidelanes because Nocturne can easily kill them, and his ult is really good during objectives.
Riot also stated that he doesn't fit his theme very well. New players get drawn to him because of his awesome ult and looks but quickly find out that he just walks at people and autos them to death. The same people who would've gotten attracted to nocturne are now instead drawn to fiddlesticks
If this is a horror film. Fiddlesticks would be your jump scare, Warwick the looming predator in the woods, and nocturne should be a psychological terror.
@@gaiisanwic286 shaco plays the role of the little brother that kicks you and runs aways and for some reason always gets away with it and you get in trouble.
The most recent spike was actually when stridebreaker was reworked, not added. Remember when it was a 70% slow but not dash? Noc loved that and he was gigabusted for a solid month.
I still remember when I started playing league and was a hail of blades full crit nocturne top that rushed stattik shiv into IE and never bought boots because I thought the q movespeed was enough. All because I got the dark revenenant nocturne skin for free as my first skin
I feel like Noct has recently suffered from a kind of identity crisis. He's made to be a jungler, he plays like a jungler, his passive works best on jungle monsters, and yet the last few times he's been good have been as a laner. He needs some kind of focus - either reducing his mana costs and giving him some kind of reliable escape tool for him to become a proper laner, or give him something to help him keep up with the 8-billion dashes in the game currently, so that his ganks can be actually effective as a jungler.
Combatting 8 billion dashes by giving everyone else dashes is the worst idea. Start REMOVING dashes instead. Make guys like Kassadin and Ezreal stand out again.
@@Vario69again? Kassa could perma ult threw the hole map without mana issues in the earliest seasons and ezreal E never was something else, what you talking about ?
as someone who watches ur videos with the captions on, ur captions r mostly accurate!! with the exception of some champ names, item names or abilities it's nice to have a youtuber who has (mostly) accurate captions
I think putting the darkness on his passive would free up a lot of space for him to do his thing. For example: when enemies are hit by Nocturne's abilities, they lose vision of all units except Nocturne (and gain the movement speed trail?). This plays into the fear thematic and disables any targeted dashes to get away. With this in place, Riot has plenty of space to turn his kit into something useful while preserving his thematics.
dude that is a genius idea i rlly do hope a dev sees and picks this up by some miracle; your idea seems fitting for both fighter and assassin playstyles if they ever lock him into one could even have him apply it as a temp. debuff that decreases his target's fov depending on how low their hp is to provoke a bit of anxiety
simply put - Nocturne is a relic of past times when the game was different, and outdated - he can still work, but it's way harder and he has to put in far more effort to achieve similar results as what many other updated/reworked/modern champions can achieve as baseline or with far less effort
At higher skill levels other junglers are better and more flexible than he can be. At lower skill levels he's still strong, if you have the time to learn jungle well and put some time on noc most jungles could hit d4 easy.
I feel like how Fiddle should be a sudden threat, Nocturne should be a constant omnipresent threat. Make him able to choose a target and haunt them, able to reveal them when he uses his ult and gaining a bonus against them. I think leaning into his all-or-nothing playstyle could pair well with a very carry shutdown perspective. I think the solo target style could fit him very well, not unlike Kindred but less of a marksman and more of an assassin.
Haven’t played LoL since i was 12. Sometimes i come back to look at Nocturne videos in remembrance to how many countless champions I’ve shredded. How many tears I brought to many players. And hoping still, even today that he’s still op and a terrifying champion to go up against. I mained jungle & between Kayn, Nocturne and Master Yi i was always fed early. How I miss those days
Make abilities refresh his passive automatically in addition to how it functions already, giving him more overall burst as well as sustain. Keep his Q as is, maybe bump the scaling or base damage depending on whether they want him to be a true assassin or a bruiser. Change the W spell shield into intangibility, which makes more thematic sense as well as being more proactive. remove the attack speed bonus in order to distribute power to his other abilities. Change E from a targeted tether fear to a short range delayed AoE fear with medium AD scaling, give him a passive that deals bonus damage to feared targets giving him potential synergy with other fear based champions. No changes to R. It already does what it's supposed to do perfectly. It's just attached to a pretty un-threatening champion. if the rest of his kit was more flexible and potent his ult will actually be scary again.
I like your ideas I would definitely consider his e fearing effect taking less time after each auto attack on an enemy champion meaning if you're chasing it will still take a while but if you're fighting while casting it it will fear quicker and having it reset if part of a kill makes his fear/nightmare motif be more present. His passive being tied to abilities and maybe every 6 autos wouldn't be bad either I think. His ult should make him untargtable while he's flying at his target
His ultimate is already porlarising enough, how is making him untargattable on an ability that doesn't really give you time to hit him gonna do anything? That mainly my issue with Nocturne he over relance on his ultimate. Its doesn't take advantage of its intersting Macro counter were he turns the lights off, instead it just focuses on him being able to dash from couple of screens away. Thats boring and prediactable, unlike fiddlesticks where his dash can go over walls i used to make you be terrified of standing next to one. It adds to that fear of the unknown instead of nocturne who less causes fear and more just annoys. Helcurt from fucking Mobile Legends(The worst Moba I've ever witnessed in a Market way, the gameplay is fine) where he gains MS ontop of the Blinding, leading to you having to guess where he's coming from with who he's targetting, adding a way to counter it with an addition of being hard but fair as if can predict him he gets demolished. Nocturne is like Pyke, a worthless character with a meanigful ultimate.
@@alexcat6685 okay then why not change the turning off the lights to one target and increase the range of the dash. That way you can make him untargtable while flying across the map like a nightmare possibly fearing the target and then can put some power in other areas of his kit. Plus with only one player seeing the ultimate coming the rest of the enemy team would be surprised unless good communication
@@alexcat6685 Yea gotta agree with you on the Helcurt part. Mobile Legends may be a shameless rip off but Helcurt is just a better nocturne imo. 2nd skill is fairly balanced with needing autos to stack up to get a high damage burst, but can easily be side stepped and the ult is better designed; I think the idea of a demonic creature relentlessly chasing you when the lights are out is much more terrifying than just a simple gap closer, not to mention unpredictable.
@@justascarecrow6988 I would make the ultimate start instantaneously from the moment the lights go off you fly at them and you'd fly at them fast but it would definitely be more of a picking off tool but yea in team fights a lot weaker so making changes to his q and w would be possible. Currently like people have said his ult is his only good thing so having room to buff the other parts of his kit ain't bad
They need to make decision on what they want Nocturne to be when they rework him. Is he going to be an auto based assassin like Yi or Bel’veth or is he going to be a tanky bruiser like Renekton or Garen? Right now it feels like he’s stuck in the middle of those two; he doesn’t have the damage, mobility or survivability of Yi and he doesn’t have the burst damage and tankiness of Renekton.
As a nocturne main, his unfortunate but little niche has been better throughout the seasons. Especially when the rune system changes, everything else getting nerfed in terms of the numbers throughout the patches. Nocturne also flew under the radar while only receiving minor nerfs and major reverts to his kit + quality of life changes to clear jungle. Hopefully they do take his old kit and modernize while keeping his easy to approach kit. Similar to Warwick.
Good point. I'm otp Nocturne rn and I found that he is all about auto-attacking, so I start with Kraken cause it gives everything Nocturne needs the most. But his kit still lacks a few things: 1. no dashes, only ult with big cd; 2. no on-hit effects or hp% dmg (if I remember correctly some time ago his E deal % dmg, but was nerfed); 3. bad AD and AP scalings, no hybridization; 4. No tankiness and only 1 short cc; 5. No AoE (Q does low dmg. passive AoE aa has 12 seconds cd). He has 2 buffs, but it's not permanent and kinda clumsy. Definitely need some upgrades
For those curious, a great way to get guaranteed E's (and specifically have them flee towards your team) is to buy prowler's claw. If they are immobile and don't have flash up, simply use prowler's right before E's fear goes off. If they are mobile, cast E, then immediately prowler's claw. That way even if they dash in front of you again, you still guarantee your CC goes off. Also, make sure you change your keystone based off the matchup. Going bruiser Noc? Go Conq or phase rush. Going assassin? Go lethal, hail of blades, or first strike. The choice depends on the type of fighting you think will happen. Do you just want to get on their carry and two shot them? Go hail of blades or first strike. Is it going to be more or a chase that is going to require more than 3 autos? Go lethal Edit: Lastly, ALWAYS go the red tree. Whether it be your primary or secondary. You want the rune that gives ult ability haste (ultimate hunter?), and ALWAYS try to save your first ult for a guaranteed kill. Your first ult is arguably your most important.
idea for a nocturne rework passive : when nocturne auto attacks an enemy, they are inflicted with Mark of Terror, enemies with Mark of Terror will leave behind a trail. when nocturne is on this trail, he gains extra movement speed and attack speed, this mark can be applied repeatedly Q : nocturne dashes towards a target marked with his passive and deal damage on arrival. this ability's cooldown is reduced by 0.5 seconds each time nocturne attacks an enemy W : nocturne swings his blades around in a circle, damaging all enemies in the area and heal based on the number of enemies damaged by his W, he also gets a spellshield that lasts for 1 second during the cast animation of W E : nocturne tethers an enemy and after a short channel, fears them, enemies feared by nocturne will take extra damage from nocturne during the fear duration R : nocturne nearsights all enemies and when recast towards an enemy, he dashes towards that enemy, during the recast, he also send out clones of himself towards the other enemies to frighten make the opponent wonder who is going to get the real nocturne while the other 4 gets a fake clone
@@tymietore8447 I don't play dota so idk about that, the ult idea I said was originally from skooch, he mentioned it in his video about the vgu poll last season
They need to just completely gut the ult. The ult is one of the most broken ones in the entire game, gated by the fact nocturne has a dogshit braindead kit. Nearsight is extremely broken, that ult would be not only cancer but like 5 shaco ults in a team fight and that is going to lead to cheese team fight wins
So once you auto someone, you have quasi-perma movement speed, you can dash to them, you can fear them, and if they somehow get away then, you can dash again... You can just never get away from him lol (Not much different from current noc tbf)
Great video like always. Never really stopped and think about noc in and out of itself, his place in a composition and general purpose, more so what his win condition is, i just kinda took him for what he is and thats that. With this deeper analysis now it makes more sense what happened to him and how he slowly but surely fell from the glory i once knew since S1
His win condition is the same as everyone else in the current game state. Snowball your botlane and take dragons. That is the easiest way to win right now no matter what you play.
Please note for Tryndamere: he has transformed massively over the years, from relying on fat big dick 275% crit damage while spinningonce or twice, to spinning 5+ times in a fight with spin resets. Hydra, essence reaver, eclipse or galeforce + navori being meta builds on Tryndamere is proof he's changed into an immortal backline chasing diver/assassin. Tryndamere is really quite weak 1v1 when even or behind and shines only when very ahead.
I know that the only reason I don't personally play him anymore is because of one single voice line; "Are you MY nightmare, or am I yours?". What the fuck do you think, Nocturne? Do you think I am scared of the ancient demonic entity that stalks people's dreams, or do you think said demon pisses his pants when he sees me?
Speaking of the VGU polls and how Nocturne, Shyvanna, and Tryndemere are on the list; Riot put out some interesting stats at that time ( I don't recall which Dev-post it was or which VGU poll) about Nocturne. They said they had data that showed something like the following....Nocturne has/had a high pick rate for new players, but has low breadth. Meaning, a lot of new players are attracted enough into picking him, but don't stick around to keep playing him - so they reasoned he has a strong theme and style that appeal to players BUT the gameplay fails to deliver thus he is dropped. Much like the other demon reworks as Fiddlesticks and Evelynn, I think a Nocturne VGU will be equally successful and something I look forward to as a bit of a demon-enthusiast myself. Again, I'm going off of what I remember reading on Riot's dev-posts or diaries around the time they had some of the VGU polls over the past few years, I don't know where exactly this information was as proof.
If you saw that video of nocturne chasing ryze that was incredible bloody terrifying But the in game is cloud is that stupid q which is very not intimidating and not something you are worried about getting hit by anyway Also doesn't really give that feeling of he coming to get you
can confirm he was on my "champs to try" list when i started playing and dropped him bc of how underwhelming his abilities were; just didn't really feel like a demon of nightmares when aa'ing ppl to death like some ordinary soldier of demacia
its super frustrating because apparently even in high elo people want to fight him in his ult instead of running away to time him out. mass pinging to get away from him only works so well.
I would love it if they made Swain ult mana drain with low cooldown like his old one. It required good resource managment, especialy since the longer it lasted the more mana per second you lost. Right now you just press R and afk hoping enemies won't run away
@@JanTft way more brainless then Olaf as well, at least you need to land axes to stay on top of them since the movespeed bonus only lasts the shortest time and most Olaf's don't take ghost still
Imagine his Ult Dash having a Reset for the Dash as long as the Darkness lasts.... That would be so cool, kill 1 target and then jump to the next while it is dark. On the other hand, I think it would be really OP and frustrating to play against, so please don't do it xD
I've been dreading a nocturne rework since I know they want him to be more of an assassin, but if they do anything even remotely close to what you suggested at the end for changes without removing the auto attack focus, I will be a happy nocturne main.
i love playing noc. I used to rush phantom dancer in the top lane and would consistently beat people who made the mistake of fighting in or near a minion wave. level 1. q + umbral blades was basically a 25% heal if you hit the enemy champ and 4-5 minions. I used to go phantom dancer ie rush followed by non crit items based on the matchups. over time i started playing jungle more and more and i still regularly play new styles with nocturn and often get to win 2v1s just because of how all in his kit is these days. I even remember when stuff like stormbreaker came out i would take odd first items before eventually building into one of the many overtuned as all hell items. and then axium arc came out and just made things a little more crazy for noc. but also i suck at the game. i consistently get into high elo norms stuck playing with diamonds and even people in masters every 10 games or so yet my dumbass cant sit down long enough to clear themselves out of silver
There is one other interesting interaction with nocturne R, Shen cant ult to protect someone while paranoia is active and all spell shields are deactivated during the R, e.g. malz passive, banshees, edge of night
Making his e not completely break if someone dashes away would help a lot. Keep the current radius, but let if reattach to its target if they re-engage. It would make his e a much better "get off me" as well as letting nocturne exert more control over an engagement by using his e to force players to run into his laners.
As a Nocturne main, idrc if he gets an update or a full rework. I think I'd be happy with both. But from a rework perspective, I'd be really cool if his darkness was a basic ability (no dash, just vision denial) think along the lines of Warwick W. During darkness, nocturne gains bonus stats. His E could become a short range dash (smaller version of his ult) which resets on takedowns. His passive could change to something along the lines of; Grants movement speed when moving towards feared targets. The first basic attack on a large monster or champion fears them for X secs (on a cd per champ), Takedowns refreshes the 'per champion' cd on nearby targets (centered on the takedown, not nocturne). If keeping his q similar to what it is now, it probably wouldn't need the stats nearly as much if his w gives it to him instead, but it would be cool if it allowed Nocturne to traverse through walls on his path (if he steps off his path, he would flick out of the wall like Kayn does). if his q gets reworked entirely, I would try to give it some form of AOE for clearing jg which has been removed from his current passive. With that in mind I would maybe just make his passive his new Q. Q Grants the next basic attack AOE, which applies on hit and lifesteal and healing him for a set amount per target hit with the AOE (I would love to add armor shred to this but it might be too much considering it would also apply the first basic attack fear if they haven't been hit by Nocturne yet). His ultimate would simply be a passive with an active stat boost; Passive: E dash range increased during W Darkness. Active: Bonus attack speed, AD and doubling his lifesteal on feared targets. (if armor shred is not added to his Q I might be inclined to add here instead probably to feared targets specifically).
My idea for nocturne Passive : 10 sec cooldown, autos refund 1 second. If enemy champion is hit by an empowered auto he gets healed by a % of his bonus AD. Q gives 2 empowered attacks if he lands it, W gives 2 as well if he blocks a spell and E gives 2 if he fears the opponent after the full channel. Maximum empowered attacks capped at 5. Q : Same cooldowns and AD scaling, but now if he lands an empowered auto-attack while his Q is trailing somebody (he hits Q and it follows that champion(s) for 5-6 seconds) he does a flat % of his bonus AD as true dmg, split amongst enemy champions hit. Does more true dmg in a 1v1 scenario and less if he hits more so that the true dmg doesn't make him too op. W : He gets to keep the passive bonus attack speed and the increased attack speed if he blocks a spell, but now on activation he gets an empowered attack and if he successfully blocks a spell he gets another one. E : He channeles fear over 2 seconds. For each second that passes while channeling he gains an empowered attack. If the target escapes the range of his E, they get feared for how much Nocturne channeled for. EX he channeled fear for 1.25 sec and the enemy flashed away, than the enemy will get feared for that 1.25 seconds that Nocturne channeled the ability for. Also keeps increased movement speed towards targets but instead of the 90% increase he will get 60% if the target gets outside of the range of his E, leaving room for outplays. R : Same concept, he makes the enemy team nearsighted and he can dash to an enemy champion within range, but now if he dashes to an enemy champion that champion gets feared for 1 second regardless of the rank on his R. However, he cannot target that champion with E for 2 seconds at rank 1; 2.5 seconds at rank 2 and 3 seconds at rank 3. Therefore forcing him to either kill the target feared by his R within 1 second or chase them down without making the enemy unable to respond. After the 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds pass depending on rank Nocturne can now target the champion with E again. I think this makes him viable at ranks above gold and makes him balanced enough so he doesn't just one shot his enemy champion. Since you can't fear the opponent for more than 1 second after you use R it gives the opponent a chance to escape 2 / 2.5 / 3 respectively, after witch you can than apply fear to them again and keep the fight going. But for that trade off E will do less dmg and R will cost 25 more mana for each rank 100 rank 1, 125 rank 2 and 150 rank 3. However he now has 50 bonus base mana since his abilities use so much of it and after just 2 or 3 rotations he runs out unless he has blue buff or he is fighting in the jungle.
I never considered Noct to be quite so problematic by design, as I have chosen him as my one and only jungle for 5 seasons. Ending last season with a 68%WR I worried about his potential rework. I hope it's adjustments like how you suggested, but overall I don't think his kit is useless or degenerate the way many of his old counterparts were. Fid was a great rework, voli was okay, Diana went from being a favourite of mine to somehow feeling unusable personally despite everyone else having success. I fear Noct will have the same fate.
"Unspeakable Horror is also a very inconsistent fear because the tether radius isn't as long as say LeBlanc's Ethereal Chains." The number of times I've used all the mobility and disruption in my kit (including exhaust + flash + adc's heal) and still been feared by Nocturne despite being over half a screen away is too much for me to believe this. Maybe it's just spaghetti code again but it happens all the time. I'm also a support main and every time the enemy Nocturne ults I immediately move to the last known location of my nearest ally to help them. It's rare that the two of us combined can stop him because he is just tanky enough with the addition of his spell shield that we can't kill him before his fear gets off and does just enough damage that he can out heal a Soraka or shred a Janna shield then the health bar of the adc before the fear is finished. It only ever works in our favor when my adc is ahead or the Nocturne is behind.
I like the idea of one of his abilities getting lower CD with AA. The fear ticking down faster on targets you auto is really cool. I don't know how oppressive it would be, but reducing the CD of the spell shield after successfully blocking a spell would be really good.
I would maybe change the behaviour of his spells in bundles. Version 1: Make his ult not long range dash, keep the nearsightness, make it a heavy aoe phys dmg and slow similar to diana pull plus magic dmg. Then for this to work make his E able to be enhanced while the enemy is under the effect of nearsightness, for example faster fear or fear + aoe root. Version 2: Go all in on dueling and make it add soft resets to his abilities, how master Yi has it via his ult. Version 3: Go into a bruiser playstyle by foregoing the oneshot capability and make him a long lasting duelist which would mean adding power to his Q or E and changing only the W. The power I mean is not in the form of more dmg but more options, too linear in chasing and not enough in defending, if his W was like a warwick E which reduced dmg for 2 seconds by 50% with the option to aoe slow it would be very nice for dueling and the Q trail to gradually add a slow to the people walking in it, i.e if he is being chased and presses Q to run away those following directly behind will only have a small window to catch before the slow kicks in and he can escape, making him more viable as duelist, would also work in TF when he hits Q on the enemy backline and their frontline will have trouble retreating if they dont get away from the trail. Version 4: Complete VGU keeping only the R mechanic and go complete rework on the rest.
I play Noct as a bruiser and use ult late game not to surprise solo champs but easy jump to the backline to kill 1-2 Squishies and throw team fight into disarray. And as bruiser I can walk up to front line without ult and trade blows, while being able to block telegraphed abilities.
I think nocturne is really good, he has a larger amount of utility than you have shown. his fear causes targets to run away, so if you position yourself behind them they will be feared toward your team, also if you attempt to flash over top of nocturne with the fear chain on you it doesnt actually get you outside the tether. Plus he has a 90% ms boost toward feared targets, that works with any fear not just his own. And as for escaping, if you Q away from your target the monent the fear hits you can create a huge distance between yourself and the person chasing you. His W is a hugely powerful ability if used correctly you can completly turn a fight in your favor if you use it at the right time. He has great sustain in the jg with his passive and a respectable clear speed. He is also very good at countering a dive with his ult. Even if the enemy jg clears faster you can always gank the same lane and make it a 2v2
As of right now, I feel like Nocturne is the perfect autofill/starter jungler. His kit is simple and effective, his clearing speed is really good and his ultimate is probably the perfect ganking tool. That, combined with the fact that very few champions can duel him in the early game, makes him perfect for people who don’t usually play jungle to still do their job reasonably well.
I’d like to see one for Jayce. I’ve been playing him and he’s been fun to learn but sometimes it feels like I just have to press so many more buttons to do the same things that half the other champs do
Tbh when he gets reworked I want his ult to be terrifying. I'm hoping they keep it basically the same BUTT its Global and Everyone on the enemy team sees a Nocturne dash at you with 1 obviously being the real one, so that way he keeps his iconic OH SHIT moment and its actually scary because until he touches you. You wont know if it's actually him or not. Like I said that way he keeps his iconic scary bit but also helps alot because 1 ult will get Everyone to back tf up
Yea I gotta disagree with the premise of this, if he’s often played in bronze silver and gold (~80% of the players in ranked), does no one really play him?
As a Talon jg main, the reason why people don't play him, is hes my perma ban. Pre lvl 6 his spell shield stopping one of my passive marks eliminates any kill pressure. And once he has his ult, I'm left with trying to clean up on counter ganks as my only significant macro pressure, and post hydra nerfs it's just too hard to catch up that way if he gets any type of early obj prio or a few free gank kills with his ult.
Umbral Blades stack charges from his other abilities. Umbral Blades grants atk.spd. scaling with level. Umbral Blades strike in 270 degree arc in front and to the sides of him with range of 400 units, Umbral Blades still need melee range to activate .Umbral Blades deals physical missing %health damage with additional bonus dmg to monsters, healing Nocturne for 1.25% of Nocturne's max health per target struck up to 7.5% of max health. Q grants AD along it's path, giving 1 stack of umbral blades + 1 stack per enemy champion hit beyond the first. W upon blocking an ability emits a wave of magic dmg and grants a stack upon blocking an ability, blocking CC effect grants 2 stacks, (blocking Lulu's polymorph gives 3 stacks, Fuck that ability xD). E Marks a target for Horrifying Assault for 4 seconds. Under the effect of Horrifying Assault target has 30% reduced movement speed while facing Nocturne and takes 20% bonus damage from Umbral Blades. When Horrifying Assault expires it erupts dealing magic damage scaling with AD fearing enemies hit with scaling duration. Damage further scales with the number of times target suffered damage from Umbral Blades up to 4. After suffering 4 Umbral Blade attacks mark erupts instantly and marking all enemy champions hit with Horrifying Assault. R globally darkens friendly vision for the enemy team. Enemies within 2500/3250/4500 range of Nocturne suffer 600/550/500 unit nearsightedness. Targets below 50% health within Paranoia are revealed. During the effect of Paranoia Nocturne can execute Umbral Guillotine which causes him to be for untargetable 0.25 sec, dashing to the targeted enemy dealing Severe damage and 50% of the damage to enemies within 400 units, granting Umbral Blades stacks per enemy champion hit. Starting at rank 2 Umbral Guillotine deals increased damage to the targets with Horrifying Assault or below 30% health. At rank 3 Umbral Guillotine upon striking Horrifying Assault, ends it instantly with it's strongest effect. Edit: grammar to be better understood.
Can speak for high elo, but nocturne has carried me to plat for like 4 or 5 seasons now. This season, eclipse is king. I go it 99% of games, almost always followed by black cleaver. If they have a lot of bulky champs bork. Deaths dance is still great on him too. Makes him a bit tankier but you still do a lot of dmg. Burst squishies and melt down tanks. Also, it makes taking dragon a lot quicker. If you get rolling it's gg.
i really think that people just arent playing him right these days. Everyone builds him lethality - ok why tho? Noc has passive attack speed buff from his W, dmg and ms buff from his Q, cc from his E, wont even talk about the ult cuz its amazing. Why lethality - its a build that lets you jump in do some dmg and die, why not for example attack speed build with some survivability items. My current most used build is: Krakenslayer, Infinity edge, Deaths Dance, Berserkers Greaves, Titanic Hydra and Warmog, and to be honest it makes him very capable in teamfights where he lacks the most. I think that if people start playing him with the right builds and not just some old staple that was a few years ago his popularity will rise up again.
Off tank with high crit is the way to go now. Shieldbow, Black Cleaver, Blood thirster..lotta hp and shields keep him from getting blown up late game, and the high life steal keep him going
i absolutely love nocturne and i believe in low elo he is super super op. i have a winrate arround 60+% on him. i dont know why people hate him so much, but i never want him to be reworked. please keep him the way he is. i LOVE it
Riot is retarded and just wants to rework every champion to be perfect. And who plays Udyr, Voli or Fiddle now? Those reworks turned out to be massive failures once the hype died down.
I think making umbra blades a 3 hit passive is possibly the most fair. it will give him a faster clear and more reliable damage and won't lead to him chain fearing teams if he is snowballed.
I think that if he gets a kill right after using his ult, then his ult should turn into a much weaker version of it. No blackout, just a targeted chase ability with a much shorter range.
The problem with nocturne as a duelist is that his engage is to good. You cant have a duelist with guaranteed engage. He really should be reworked as a diver, that is assuming you want to keep the ult, which is his entire gimmick so it should be kept
I was a fan of Noc before I started to play ADC. This bastard really the best assassin jungler, he have free AD, free AS, a fckin spell shield for free and long hard cc. If you don't have a flash-n-dash you are condemned.
I played Noc Mid before it was popular and suffered through many dodges and troll bans any time I hovered him. He was the champ that got me through my Plat Promos. Shame he’s gutted in lane
I like the idea of your rework but I'd go further - lower his free stats and increase his ability scaling so he can either go Conq Bruiser or HoB oneshot. Just my take.
the issue with nocturne is same as every old duelist, riot hates champs that are simple, riot loves champs that have 20 dashes, duelists dont work against champs with 20 dashes. as you said, his pursuit and pressure nature used to be amazing, and they were the biggest part of his kit. he used q movespeed to channel e, and just maul you down, but now you cant do that because everyone has 20 dashes. its the same reason ww stopped working and was forgotten, his entire thing was getting on you with r, using w to stay on you, and just hacking and slashing his way trough anyone in 1v1. its the same reason olaf was good, and is now a pocket pick, same as teemo, dashes counter champions that need to be at a fix distance
I feel old watching this video. It has me longing for back when building full crit Nocturne wasn't cringe, or just using Sword of Divine while ulting for the big burst.
I completely understand and hoooooope for a mini rework soon... I'm a Noc main, almost 1 mil. So many champions right now have dashes to the point where your E is so hard to land that you hold on to it until they dash away and you follow with your Q to catch up. Like you said he doesn't really have damage anymore and building him like any other assassin won't help as he has 0 escapes, when you ulti in, you kill someone and get killed yourself. If you take the more tanky build, you last longer yes, but it take you forever to kill someone. I hope they change his kit a little so he can keep up with the new champs but no so much that he feels like a new champ himself. I love the champ, but he just isn't good enough to be a carry or a tank. After 25 min into the game, you are literally just a cc bot to jump onto the adc, press E so your team can get the kill while you just stand there and smile.
top 15 pickrate in plat+ and top 5 pickrate in silver. I see him way more often than I'd like... "Why everyone plays Nocturne" might be a better title.
Nocturne's huge spike actually came when stridebreaker had its dash removed and changed to a 90% slow. Basically, if Noc got on top of you, it was over even if you had flash, and it completely broke the champion to the point where he was #1 wr in top mid and jungle for a month.
I quit League 4 years ago. Nocturne was one of my played heroes. Recently my friends invited me for some flex and i only played Nocturne. I think he's still good and viable. I just kept farming when my Ult is on cooldown, and ganking when its up. Use it everytime its up whether to kill and just get a Flash.
Ironically nocturne is pretty good at counter engaging because when a diver dives on your adc, you can fear them and do a ton of damage while they are trying to take down your back line. Seriously try it if you are behind as him it can clutch a lot of wins
have been maining noc since season 5, he’s my first main, played him lethality+crit mid before it became meta and they nerfed it to the ground + lethality changes and durability patch killed him completely, he just can’t oneshot adc with 100 armor, 3k hp and 600hp shield from bt and runes, and even if he gets close to kill - adc has gayforce/dash/invulnerability/shield and so on
Make is E aoe, is has the same cast range and windup it does now, but when you press E it his everyone within range. This can give him potential safty when diving
What if Nocturne's ulti is longer. Imagine Balanar's Ulti from Dota 1 (dota has a day and night cycle) but instead of Night it's the impaired vision that he has but longer maybe 10-15 sec and can still dash? And then so long as he kills / assist during the ulti he can refresh the dash (but won't extend the darkness timer)
I really want to see them do another large scale sweep of updates, like the assassin reworks, mostly because I want to see Orianna get modernized and she's really low on their list. I like her a lot, but she could really do with a Morgana level update. Fix her passive, maybe combine her q and e, and help her be seen as a threat again.
IMO combining Q and E without putting some limitation on the E part feels too OP. If you have to, say, do 2-3 autos and the next Q will activate the dissonance part, or the dissonance part of the combo is on its own c/d that's reduced by AA's or landed abilities, that would be good. I also have no idea what would go into her e afterward, either. Although, if you're suggesting they do a complete rework of her passive, too, what I suggested above sounds like a great integration of all three abilities without dropping their core aspects. Still no idea what would take their place, plus I think the interaction that her Q gives and the high impact of her ult need to stay in some form; Orianna is built around the interactions with her ball, and I just cannot imagine League without Command: Shockwave at this point.
I really hope this video doesn't remind people he exists and start playing him more. He's definitely carried by his ult but he arguably has the best ult in the game. He's insanely underrated when played right, but he's simple enough for anyone to play as or play against which is kind of cool cause i'm not a fan of the "super complex and/or overloaded" newer champs that many people still don't understand how they work like Aphelios or Akshan as some examples
I think that this champ needs a VGU. Currently he either is an assassin with mediocre burst ar best or a bruiser who is basically a darkness bot. Both playstyles do work, but only up to a certain ceiling. Giving him a dash or maybe more tankiness would certainly help, but his kit is disconnected and clunky judging by current LoL standards
Its funny I started watching the video for 2 min and paused it, then I watched Pro Play and played a lot of games with a friend and forgot the video. I played a few new Champs and randomly tested Nocturne... after 2 Games I fell in love with him and can't wait to play him tomorrow. No after about 12 hours later I come back to the video and think lol... I just learned to love the Champ and became a Nocturne Player xD
i love this video, it's just come so very late. as a former nocturne main (damn near a otp) back in the day, i cant even begin to think of just how many times ive thought of or repeated basically everything said in this video, somewhere. and may have even left suggestions on the old forum back when it actually felt like riot read the suggestions. but nope. E is still scaling to AP for fuck all knows why, umbral blades is still basically useless other than early clear health help, and as many people say, the later the season, the more useless the champ is when his R is on cd. even if you're snowballed and fed, without R or blowing flash you're kinda just a much worse udyr. also, in my suggestions i used to say the same thing you said about E reset on kill for his W instead, but actually E might be better for pressure purposes. idk, there's an obvious lot they could've done with him, way way long ago, but as the game itself progresses more toward "a million dashes, a billion damage" even if they completely reworked him it'd be kind of pointless imo.
There are only 10 jungle champs with a 5%+ pickrate at Diamond+. Sejuani is one of the best junglers in the game and she is under 4%. Udyr is currently under 3%. Maokai now at 1.6%. The picks at Diamond+ change with every patch.
kind of weird because when i vs noc, he goes full MR and killing all 5 champions solo. even though i am fed. he heals lots and doesn't take damage back.
Nocturne is just a champ that suffers from the "completely useless if it weren't for the ult" archetype like Skarner and Twisted Fate. Diana actually had this same issue to until they reworked her a couple years ago and now she's fairly popular.
Kennen too lol
his kit is 12 years old let that sink in
Well, his ult is pretty f-n good. This can also be said about Evelynn's invisibility.
Tf doesn’t suffer from that tf w is pretty useful and has waveclear
Tf is not that useless without ult he still bring perfect utility even without it, he one along side ori that have theirs kits ages like wine.
I was just thinking about why he is in this series when I see him so often and then you have to stab me in the heart by calling him a "low-elo stomper"
hes only good when he has more stats absolutely useless if even or behind, same as shaco, tryn , irelia. olaf. trundl.
Remember that "low ELO" is 95% of the playerbase. By saying "no one plays" Vars is ignoring 95% of players.
@@Atanatari165 1st : you made a wonderful choice with your name. Sincerely, a tolkien enjoyer.
2nd : low elo does not have much visibility.
@@Atanatari165 competitive games are about rising to the top for a reason. no one cares what wrecks lol elo so it has high pick there, if it isnt truly competitive viable
@@niko2924 true, but if most players are in the lower levels, some consideration has to go towards that group.
"Why no one plays Nocturne"
Cuz Fiddlesticks stole his lunch and sent him to culinary school to make lunch for it for the rest of his life
lmao u got me choked
TBSkyen reference detected lol
im fairly positive fiddle sees similar pickrate numbers as noc
bro think he tb skyen
@@looneymar9153 its fine tho since he isnt banned as often and is a sleeper pick
As a former jungler - nocturne was my staple on quick jumping through silver and gold and most of plat divisions.
Yet he becomes waay less reliable later.
You have to snowball each game on him to effectively climb.
And even in clashes it found quite a decent place with sertain combos.
This. In exchange, he becomes a nightmare (pun intended) for the enemy team if ahead. They can't push the sidelanes because Nocturne can easily kill them, and his ult is really good during objectives.
"Yet he becomes waay less reliable later" well if you dont know to play him yeah
Riot also stated that he doesn't fit his theme very well. New players get drawn to him because of his awesome ult and looks but quickly find out that he just walks at people and autos them to death. The same people who would've gotten attracted to nocturne are now instead drawn to fiddlesticks
this comment called me out for thinking noc was cool then actually trying the game once i found out about fiddle lmao
its true, Fiddle's playstyle inheritly makes people afraid with with no vision. Nocturne could use some adjustments.
I like old fiddle 🥲 but yeah the rework fiddle work was really good
@@keenfuture what part of old fiddle specifically do you miss?
@@albertoHammyer I miss his old e it was so toxic I loved it
Can't wait for his rework. If Voli, Fiddle and Udyr is an indication, he will turn out amazing.
If Udyr is an indication you could say it’ll be a nightmare
I already love this champ I hope they give him fiddlesticks treatment and become really great
@@remoover5420 Fitting
i mean with the rate that riot is pumping out VGU's, we're not going to see it until 2030 lol
@@JanTft true
If this is a horror film. Fiddlesticks would be your jump scare, Warwick the looming predator in the woods, and nocturne should be a psychological terror.
Shaco could be equally fitting for the role.
@@gaiisanwic286 except shaco is creepy clown who does an unalive and nothing else.
@@gaiisanwic286 shaco plays the role of the little brother that kicks you and runs aways and for some reason always gets away with it and you get in trouble.
@Paris Hart I was referring to shaco's character design, not his mechanic kit, which is fine I guess.
@Paris Hart ad shaco isnt that annoying, hes just an average assassin with escape tools.
The most recent spike was actually when stridebreaker was reworked, not added. Remember when it was a 70% slow but not dash? Noc loved that and he was gigabusted for a solid month.
I was literally given a notification to watch this video while playing Nocturne and waiting to respawn.
I still remember when I started playing league and was a hail of blades full crit nocturne top that rushed stattik shiv into IE and never bought boots because I thought the q movespeed was enough. All because I got the dark revenenant nocturne skin for free as my first skin
I feel like Noct has recently suffered from a kind of identity crisis. He's made to be a jungler, he plays like a jungler, his passive works best on jungle monsters, and yet the last few times he's been good have been as a laner. He needs some kind of focus - either reducing his mana costs and giving him some kind of reliable escape tool for him to become a proper laner, or give him something to help him keep up with the 8-billion dashes in the game currently, so that his ganks can be actually effective as a jungler.
Combatting 8 billion dashes by giving everyone else dashes is the worst idea. Start REMOVING dashes instead.
Make guys like Kassadin and Ezreal stand out again.
@@Vario69again? Kassa could perma ult threw the hole map without mana issues in the earliest seasons and ezreal E never was something else, what you talking about ?
@@Vario69maybe just stop adding Champs with double or tripple dashes and remove dash items but remove hole spells? That will never happen buddy
as someone who watches ur videos with the captions on, ur captions r mostly accurate!! with the exception of some champ names, item names or abilities
it's nice to have a youtuber who has (mostly) accurate captions
PTSD Flashbacks of Zwag just obliterating that one Nocturne’s entire self-esteem during that Lux game
THAT Lux game.
Got a link? I wanna see that game
I think putting the darkness on his passive would free up a lot of space for him to do his thing. For example: when enemies are hit by Nocturne's abilities, they lose vision of all units except Nocturne (and gain the movement speed trail?). This plays into the fear thematic and disables any targeted dashes to get away. With this in place, Riot has plenty of space to turn his kit into something useful while preserving his thematics.
dude that is a genius idea i rlly do hope a dev sees and picks this up by some miracle; your idea seems fitting for both fighter and assassin playstyles if they ever lock him into one
could even have him apply it as a temp. debuff that decreases his target's fov depending on how low their hp is to provoke a bit of anxiety
Horrible to play against
simply put - Nocturne is a relic of past times when the game was different, and outdated - he can still work, but it's way harder and he has to put in far more effort to achieve similar results as what many other updated/reworked/modern champions can achieve as baseline or with far less effort
At higher skill levels other junglers are better and more flexible than he can be. At lower skill levels he's still strong, if you have the time to learn jungle well and put some time on noc most jungles could hit d4 easy.
I feel like how Fiddle should be a sudden threat, Nocturne should be a constant omnipresent threat. Make him able to choose a target and haunt them, able to reveal them when he uses his ult and gaining a bonus against them. I think leaning into his all-or-nothing playstyle could pair well with a very carry shutdown perspective. I think the solo target style could fit him very well, not unlike Kindred but less of a marksman and more of an assassin.
Noone plays him because he looks like a discount Lunala
officer I would like to report a murder
Savage lol
just remember that nocturne lvl 9 has small ult range than zac e range
Haven’t played LoL since i was 12. Sometimes i come back to look at Nocturne videos in remembrance to how many countless champions I’ve shredded. How many tears I brought to many players. And hoping still, even today that he’s still op and a terrifying champion to go up against. I mained jungle & between Kayn, Nocturne and Master Yi i was always fed early. How I miss those days
Make abilities refresh his passive automatically in addition to how it functions already, giving him more overall burst as well as sustain.
Keep his Q as is, maybe bump the scaling or base damage depending on whether they want him to be a true assassin or a bruiser.
Change the W spell shield into intangibility, which makes more thematic sense as well as being more proactive. remove the attack speed bonus in order to distribute power to his other abilities.
Change E from a targeted tether fear to a short range delayed AoE fear with medium AD scaling, give him a passive that deals bonus damage to feared targets giving him potential synergy with other fear based champions.
No changes to R. It already does what it's supposed to do perfectly. It's just attached to a pretty un-threatening champion. if the rest of his kit was more flexible and potent his ult will actually be scary again.
I like your ideas I would definitely consider his e fearing effect taking less time after each auto attack on an enemy champion meaning if you're chasing it will still take a while but if you're fighting while casting it it will fear quicker and having it reset if part of a kill makes his fear/nightmare motif be more present. His passive being tied to abilities and maybe every 6 autos wouldn't be bad either I think. His ult should make him untargtable while he's flying at his target
His ultimate is already porlarising enough, how is making him untargattable on an ability that doesn't really give you time to hit him gonna do anything?
That mainly my issue with Nocturne he over relance on his ultimate.
Its doesn't take advantage of its intersting Macro counter were he turns the lights off, instead it just focuses on him being able to dash from couple of screens away.
Thats boring and prediactable, unlike fiddlesticks where his dash can go over walls i used to make you be terrified of standing next to one.
It adds to that fear of the unknown instead of nocturne who less causes fear and more just annoys.
Helcurt from fucking Mobile Legends(The worst Moba I've ever witnessed in a Market way, the gameplay is fine) where he gains MS ontop of the Blinding, leading to you having to guess where he's coming from with who he's targetting, adding a way to counter it with an addition of being hard but fair as if can predict him he gets demolished.
Nocturne is like Pyke, a worthless character with a meanigful ultimate.
@@alexcat6685 okay then why not change the turning off the lights to one target and increase the range of the dash. That way you can make him untargtable while flying across the map like a nightmare possibly fearing the target and then can put some power in other areas of his kit. Plus with only one player seeing the ultimate coming the rest of the enemy team would be surprised unless good communication
@@NoMADnecro It takes one ping in order to have your whole team dogpile you protectively. This would weaken Noc.
@@alexcat6685 Yea gotta agree with you on the Helcurt part. Mobile Legends may be a shameless rip off but Helcurt is just a better nocturne imo. 2nd skill is fairly balanced with needing autos to stack up to get a high damage burst, but can easily be side stepped and the ult is better designed; I think the idea of a demonic creature relentlessly chasing you when the lights are out is much more terrifying than just a simple gap closer, not to mention unpredictable.
@@justascarecrow6988 I would make the ultimate start instantaneously from the moment the lights go off you fly at them and you'd fly at them fast but it would definitely be more of a picking off tool but yea in team fights a lot weaker so making changes to his q and w would be possible. Currently like people have said his ult is his only good thing so having room to buff the other parts of his kit ain't bad
They need to make decision on what they want Nocturne to be when they rework him. Is he going to be an auto based assassin like Yi or Bel’veth or is he going to be a tanky bruiser like Renekton or Garen? Right now it feels like he’s stuck in the middle of those two; he doesn’t have the damage, mobility or survivability of Yi and he doesn’t have the burst damage and tankiness of Renekton.
As a nocturne main, his unfortunate but little niche has been better throughout the seasons. Especially when the rune system changes, everything else getting nerfed in terms of the numbers throughout the patches. Nocturne also flew under the radar while only receiving minor nerfs and major reverts to his kit + quality of life changes to clear jungle. Hopefully they do take his old kit and modernize while keeping his easy to approach kit. Similar to Warwick.
Good point.
I'm otp Nocturne rn and I found that he is all about auto-attacking, so I start with Kraken cause it gives everything Nocturne needs the most.
But his kit still lacks a few things:
1. no dashes, only ult with big cd;
2. no on-hit effects or hp% dmg (if I remember correctly some time ago his E deal % dmg, but was nerfed);
3. bad AD and AP scalings, no hybridization;
4. No tankiness and only 1 short cc;
5. No AoE (Q does low dmg. passive AoE aa has 12 seconds cd).
He has 2 buffs, but it's not permanent and kinda clumsy.
Definitely need some upgrades
For those curious, a great way to get guaranteed E's (and specifically have them flee towards your team) is to buy prowler's claw. If they are immobile and don't have flash up, simply use prowler's right before E's fear goes off. If they are mobile, cast E, then immediately prowler's claw. That way even if they dash in front of you again, you still guarantee your CC goes off. Also, make sure you change your keystone based off the matchup. Going bruiser Noc? Go Conq or phase rush. Going assassin? Go lethal, hail of blades, or first strike. The choice depends on the type of fighting you think will happen. Do you just want to get on their carry and two shot them? Go hail of blades or first strike. Is it going to be more or a chase that is going to require more than 3 autos? Go lethal
Edit: Lastly, ALWAYS go the red tree. Whether it be your primary or secondary. You want the rune that gives ult ability haste (ultimate hunter?), and ALWAYS try to save your first ult for a guaranteed kill. Your first ult is arguably your most important.
idea for a nocturne rework
passive : when nocturne auto attacks an enemy, they are inflicted with Mark of Terror, enemies with Mark of Terror will leave behind a trail. when nocturne is on this trail, he gains extra movement speed and attack speed, this mark can be applied repeatedly
Q : nocturne dashes towards a target marked with his passive and deal damage on arrival. this ability's cooldown is reduced by 0.5 seconds each time nocturne attacks an enemy
W : nocturne swings his blades around in a circle, damaging all enemies in the area and heal based on the number of enemies damaged by his W, he also gets a spellshield that lasts for 1 second during the cast animation of W
E : nocturne tethers an enemy and after a short channel, fears them, enemies feared by nocturne will take extra damage from nocturne during the fear duration
R : nocturne nearsights all enemies and when recast towards an enemy, he dashes towards that enemy, during the recast, he also send out clones of himself towards the other enemies to frighten make the opponent wonder who is going to get the real nocturne while the other 4 gets a fake clone
Ult is kinda like spectre from dota, not bad honestly
@@tymietore8447 I don't play dota so idk about that, the ult idea I said was originally from skooch, he mentioned it in his video about the vgu poll last season
They need to just completely gut the ult. The ult is one of the most broken ones in the entire game, gated by the fact nocturne has a dogshit braindead kit. Nearsight is extremely broken, that ult would be not only cancer but like 5 shaco ults in a team fight and that is going to lead to cheese team fight wins
So once you auto someone, you have quasi-perma movement speed, you can dash to them, you can fear them, and if they somehow get away then, you can dash again...
You can just never get away from him lol (Not much different from current noc tbf)
Great video like always. Never really stopped and think about noc in and out of itself, his place in a composition and general purpose, more so what his win condition is, i just kinda took him for what he is and thats that. With this deeper analysis now it makes more sense what happened to him and how he slowly but surely fell from the glory i once knew since S1
His win condition is the same as everyone else in the current game state. Snowball your botlane and take dragons. That is the easiest way to win right now no matter what you play.
Oh yay, my current jungle main.
Please note for Tryndamere: he has transformed massively over the years, from relying on fat big dick 275% crit damage while spinningonce or twice, to spinning 5+ times in a fight with spin resets.
Hydra, essence reaver, eclipse or galeforce + navori being meta builds on Tryndamere is proof he's changed into an immortal backline chasing diver/assassin.
Tryndamere is really quite weak 1v1 when even or behind and shines only when very ahead.
Instead of an ult reset, maybe make so that If he kills his target the map turns dark again, for a potential getaway. Seems like a fun idea atleast
I know that the only reason I don't personally play him anymore is because of one single voice line; "Are you MY nightmare, or am I yours?". What the fuck do you think, Nocturne? Do you think I am scared of the ancient demonic entity that stalks people's dreams, or do you think said demon pisses his pants when he sees me?
because it's always daytime in the rift
Speaking of the VGU polls and how Nocturne, Shyvanna, and Tryndemere are on the list; Riot put out some interesting stats at that time ( I don't recall which Dev-post it was or which VGU poll) about Nocturne.
They said they had data that showed something like the following....Nocturne has/had a high pick rate for new players, but has low breadth. Meaning, a lot of new players are attracted enough into picking him, but don't stick around to keep playing him - so they reasoned he has a strong theme and style that appeal to players BUT the gameplay fails to deliver thus he is dropped.
Much like the other demon reworks as Fiddlesticks and Evelynn, I think a Nocturne VGU will be equally successful and something I look forward to as a bit of a demon-enthusiast myself.
Again, I'm going off of what I remember reading on Riot's dev-posts or diaries around the time they had some of the VGU polls over the past few years, I don't know where exactly this information was as proof.
If you saw that video of nocturne chasing ryze that was incredible bloody terrifying
But the in game is cloud is that stupid q which is very not intimidating and not something you are worried about getting hit by anyway
Also doesn't really give that feeling of he coming to get you
can confirm he was on my "champs to try" list when i started playing and dropped him bc of how underwhelming his abilities were; just didn't really feel like a demon of nightmares when aa'ing ppl to death like some ordinary soldier of demacia
Id love to see your opinion on riots last idea of "endless" ultimates. Not sure about Olaf, but for Swain i feel like it was a big miss.
I miss when he gained health on cast
its super frustrating because apparently even in high elo people want to fight him in his ult instead of running away to time him out. mass pinging to get away from him only works so well.
I would love it if they made Swain ult mana drain with low cooldown like his old one. It required good resource managment, especialy since the longer it lasted the more mana per second you lost. Right now you just press R and afk hoping enemies won't run away
@@JanTft thaat would be good similair to anivia r
@@JanTft way more brainless then Olaf as well, at least you need to land axes to stay on top of them since the movespeed bonus only lasts the shortest time and most Olaf's don't take ghost still
There are so many badass ways they can take Nocturne, and I have a feeling they'll let us down.
Imagine his Ult Dash having a Reset for the Dash as long as the Darkness lasts.... That would be so cool, kill 1 target and then jump to the next while it is dark.
On the other hand, I think it would be really OP and frustrating to play against, so please don't do it xD
I've been dreading a nocturne rework since I know they want him to be more of an assassin, but if they do anything even remotely close to what you suggested at the end for changes without removing the auto attack focus, I will be a happy nocturne main.
i love playing noc. I used to rush phantom dancer in the top lane and would consistently beat people who made the mistake of fighting in or near a minion wave. level 1. q + umbral blades was basically a 25% heal if you hit the enemy champ and 4-5 minions. I used to go phantom dancer ie rush followed by non crit items based on the matchups.
over time i started playing jungle more and more and i still regularly play new styles with nocturn and often get to win 2v1s just because of how all in his kit is these days. I even remember when stuff like stormbreaker came out i would take odd first items before eventually building into one of the many overtuned as all hell items. and then axium arc came out and just made things a little more crazy for noc.
but also i suck at the game. i consistently get into high elo norms stuck playing with diamonds and even people in masters every 10 games or so yet my dumbass cant sit down long enough to clear themselves out of silver
There is one other interesting interaction with nocturne R, Shen cant ult to protect someone while paranoia is active and all spell shields are deactivated during the R, e.g. malz passive, banshees, edge of night
I feel like if Nocturne got released in 2023, Riot would probably give him a ult reset for every kill/assit
Making his e not completely break if someone dashes away would help a lot. Keep the current radius, but let if reattach to its target if they re-engage. It would make his e a much better "get off me" as well as letting nocturne exert more control over an engagement by using his e to force players to run into his laners.
As a Nocturne main, idrc if he gets an update or a full rework. I think I'd be happy with both.
But from a rework perspective, I'd be really cool if his darkness was a basic ability (no dash, just vision denial) think along the lines of Warwick W. During darkness, nocturne gains bonus stats.
His E could become a short range dash (smaller version of his ult) which resets on takedowns.
His passive could change to something along the lines of; Grants movement speed when moving towards feared targets. The first basic attack on a large monster or champion fears them for X secs (on a cd per champ), Takedowns refreshes the 'per champion' cd on nearby targets (centered on the takedown, not nocturne).
If keeping his q similar to what it is now, it probably wouldn't need the stats nearly as much if his w gives it to him instead, but it would be cool if it allowed Nocturne to traverse through walls on his path (if he steps off his path, he would flick out of the wall like Kayn does). if his q gets reworked entirely, I would try to give it some form of AOE for clearing jg which has been removed from his current passive. With that in mind I would maybe just make his passive his new Q. Q Grants the next basic attack AOE, which applies on hit and lifesteal and healing him for a set amount per target hit with the AOE (I would love to add armor shred to this but it might be too much considering it would also apply the first basic attack fear if they haven't been hit by Nocturne yet).
His ultimate would simply be a passive with an active stat boost; Passive: E dash range increased during W Darkness. Active: Bonus attack speed, AD and doubling his lifesteal on feared targets. (if armor shred is not added to his Q I might be inclined to add here instead probably to feared targets specifically).
My idea for nocturne
Passive :
10 sec cooldown, autos refund 1 second. If enemy champion is hit by an empowered auto he gets healed by a % of his bonus AD. Q gives 2 empowered attacks if he lands it, W gives 2 as well if he blocks a spell and E gives 2 if he fears the opponent after the full channel. Maximum empowered attacks capped at 5.
Q :
Same cooldowns and AD scaling, but now if he lands an empowered auto-attack while his Q is trailing somebody (he hits Q and it follows that champion(s) for 5-6 seconds) he does a flat % of his bonus AD as true dmg, split amongst enemy champions hit. Does more true dmg in a 1v1 scenario and less if he hits more so that the true dmg doesn't make him too op.
W :
He gets to keep the passive bonus attack speed and the increased attack speed if he blocks a spell, but now on activation he gets an empowered attack and if he successfully blocks a spell he gets another one.
E :
He channeles fear over 2 seconds. For each second that passes while channeling he gains an empowered attack. If the target escapes the range of his E, they get feared for how much Nocturne channeled for. EX he channeled fear for 1.25 sec and the enemy flashed away, than the enemy will get feared for that 1.25 seconds that Nocturne channeled the ability for. Also keeps increased movement speed towards targets but instead of the 90% increase he will get 60% if the target gets outside of the range of his E, leaving room for outplays.
R :
Same concept, he makes the enemy team nearsighted and he can dash to an enemy champion within range, but now if he dashes to an enemy champion that champion gets feared for 1 second regardless of the rank on his R. However, he cannot target that champion with E for 2 seconds at rank 1; 2.5 seconds at rank 2 and 3 seconds at rank 3. Therefore forcing him to either kill the target feared by his R within 1 second or chase them down without making the enemy unable to respond. After the 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds pass depending on rank Nocturne can now target the champion with E again.
I think this makes him viable at ranks above gold and makes him balanced enough so he doesn't just one shot his enemy champion. Since you can't fear the opponent for more than 1 second after you use R it gives the opponent a chance to escape 2 / 2.5 / 3 respectively, after witch you can than apply fear to them again and keep the fight going. But for that trade off E will do less dmg and R will cost 25 more mana for each rank
100 rank 1, 125 rank 2 and 150 rank 3. However he now has 50 bonus base mana since his abilities use so much of it and after just 2 or 3 rotations he runs out unless he has blue buff or he is fighting in the jungle.
I never considered Noct to be quite so problematic by design, as I have chosen him as my one and only jungle for 5 seasons. Ending last season with a 68%WR I worried about his potential rework.
I hope it's adjustments like how you suggested, but overall I don't think his kit is useless or degenerate the way many of his old counterparts were. Fid was a great rework, voli was okay, Diana went from being a favourite of mine to somehow feeling unusable personally despite everyone else having success. I fear Noct will have the same fate.
"Unspeakable Horror is also a very inconsistent fear because the tether radius isn't as long as say LeBlanc's Ethereal Chains." The number of times I've used all the mobility and disruption in my kit (including exhaust + flash + adc's heal) and still been feared by Nocturne despite being over half a screen away is too much for me to believe this. Maybe it's just spaghetti code again but it happens all the time.
I'm also a support main and every time the enemy Nocturne ults I immediately move to the last known location of my nearest ally to help them. It's rare that the two of us combined can stop him because he is just tanky enough with the addition of his spell shield that we can't kill him before his fear gets off and does just enough damage that he can out heal a Soraka or shred a Janna shield then the health bar of the adc before the fear is finished. It only ever works in our favor when my adc is ahead or the Nocturne is behind.
Have You tried running away from an Aureliano ult when it's ascended and You are blinded by a nocturne ult? Thats the real wombo combo.
I like the idea of one of his abilities getting lower CD with AA. The fear ticking down faster on targets you auto is really cool. I don't know how oppressive it would be, but reducing the CD of the spell shield after successfully blocking a spell would be really good.
Hey just wanted to say
Mad respect for using the Darkus Arena Theme for the BGM~
Good taste!
I would maybe change the behaviour of his spells in bundles.
Version 1: Make his ult not long range dash, keep the nearsightness, make it a heavy aoe phys dmg and slow similar to diana pull plus magic dmg. Then for this to work make his E able to be enhanced while the enemy is under the effect of nearsightness, for example faster fear or fear + aoe root.
Version 2: Go all in on dueling and make it add soft resets to his abilities, how master Yi has it via his ult.
Version 3: Go into a bruiser playstyle by foregoing the oneshot capability and make him a long lasting duelist which would mean adding power to his Q or E and changing only the W. The power I mean is not in the form of more dmg but more options, too linear in chasing and not enough in defending, if his W was like a warwick E which reduced dmg for 2 seconds by 50% with the option to aoe slow it would be very nice for dueling and the Q trail to gradually add a slow to the people walking in it, i.e if he is being chased and presses Q to run away those following directly behind will only have a small window to catch before the slow kicks in and he can escape, making him more viable as duelist, would also work in TF when he hits Q on the enemy backline and their frontline will have trouble retreating if they dont get away from the trail.
Version 4: Complete VGU keeping only the R mechanic and go complete rework on the rest.
Tbh if nocturne wishes to be ultimate spellbook warwich eith nocturne ult, for real
Cassiopia had her passive changed because she has no legs ergo she doesnt need boots; yet here's nocturn, no legs but he still builds boots
I play Noct as a bruiser and use ult late game not to surprise solo champs but easy jump to the backline to kill 1-2 Squishies and throw team fight into disarray. And as bruiser I can walk up to front line without ult and trade blows, while being able to block telegraphed abilities.
I think nocturne is really good, he has a larger amount of utility than you have shown. his fear causes targets to run away, so if you position yourself behind them they will be feared toward your team, also if you attempt to flash over top of nocturne with the fear chain on you it doesnt actually get you outside the tether. Plus he has a 90% ms boost toward feared targets, that works with any fear not just his own. And as for escaping, if you Q away from your target the monent the fear hits you can create a huge distance between yourself and the person chasing you. His W is a hugely powerful ability if used correctly you can completly turn a fight in your favor if you use it at the right time. He has great sustain in the jg with his passive and a respectable clear speed. He is also very good at countering a dive with his ult. Even if the enemy jg clears faster you can always gank the same lane and make it a 2v2
**Nocturne Ults**
Augmented Singed:
"You think Darkness is your ally?"
As of right now, I feel like Nocturne is the perfect autofill/starter jungler. His kit is simple and effective, his clearing speed is really good and his ultimate is probably the perfect ganking tool. That, combined with the fact that very few champions can duel him in the early game, makes him perfect for people who don’t usually play jungle to still do their job reasonably well.
I’d like to see one for Jayce. I’ve been playing him and he’s been fun to learn but sometimes it feels like I just have to press so many more buttons to do the same things that half the other champs do
But everyone plays jayce
Wild rift, adding a feature where you can double tap cannon form Jayce Q to automatically cast E as well
skill issue
thats just skill issue
if you don't want 6 abilities, then don't pick a champion that specifically has 6 abilitites as his ability
Kinda shocked to see this video cause I’ve had so many nocturnes in my games lately
Tbh when he gets reworked I want his ult to be terrifying.
I'm hoping they keep it basically the same BUTT its Global and Everyone on the enemy team sees a Nocturne dash at you with 1 obviously being the real one, so that way he keeps his iconic OH SHIT moment and its actually scary because until he touches you. You wont know if it's actually him or not.
Like I said that way he keeps his iconic scary bit but also helps alot because 1 ult will get Everyone to back tf up
That’s cool
Dont know man,but i see noc in so many games...
Yea I gotta disagree with the premise of this, if he’s often played in bronze silver and gold (~80% of the players in ranked), does no one really play him?
He is literally a top 10 meta jungle right now. His kit is outdated but he doesn't really fit here right now.
As a Talon jg main, the reason why people don't play him, is hes my perma ban. Pre lvl 6 his spell shield stopping one of my passive marks eliminates any kill pressure. And once he has his ult, I'm left with trying to clean up on counter ganks as my only significant macro pressure, and post hydra nerfs it's just too hard to catch up that way if he gets any type of early obj prio or a few free gank kills with his ult.
Umbral Blades stack charges from his other abilities. Umbral Blades grants atk.spd. scaling with level. Umbral Blades strike in 270 degree arc in front and to the sides of him with range of 400 units, Umbral Blades still need melee range to activate .Umbral Blades deals physical missing %health damage with additional bonus dmg to monsters, healing Nocturne for 1.25% of Nocturne's max health per target struck up to 7.5% of max health.
Q grants AD along it's path, giving 1 stack of umbral blades + 1 stack per enemy champion hit beyond the first.
W upon blocking an ability emits a wave of magic dmg and grants a stack upon blocking an ability, blocking CC effect grants 2 stacks, (blocking Lulu's polymorph gives 3 stacks, Fuck that ability xD).
E Marks a target for Horrifying Assault for 4 seconds. Under the effect of Horrifying Assault target has 30% reduced movement speed while facing Nocturne and takes 20% bonus damage from Umbral Blades. When Horrifying Assault expires it erupts dealing magic damage scaling with AD fearing enemies hit with scaling duration. Damage further scales with the number of times target suffered damage from Umbral Blades up to 4. After suffering 4 Umbral Blade attacks mark erupts instantly and marking all enemy champions hit with Horrifying Assault.
R globally darkens friendly vision for the enemy team. Enemies within 2500/3250/4500 range of Nocturne suffer 600/550/500 unit nearsightedness. Targets below 50% health within Paranoia are revealed.
During the effect of Paranoia Nocturne can execute Umbral Guillotine which causes him to be for untargetable 0.25 sec, dashing to the targeted enemy dealing Severe damage and 50% of the damage to enemies within 400 units, granting Umbral Blades stacks per enemy champion hit.
Starting at rank 2 Umbral Guillotine deals increased damage to the targets with Horrifying Assault or below 30% health.
At rank 3 Umbral Guillotine upon striking Horrifying Assault, ends it instantly with it's strongest effect.
Edit: grammar to be better understood.
Can speak for high elo, but nocturne has carried me to plat for like 4 or 5 seasons now. This season, eclipse is king. I go it 99% of games, almost always followed by black cleaver. If they have a lot of bulky champs bork. Deaths dance is still great on him too. Makes him a bit tankier but you still do a lot of dmg. Burst squishies and melt down tanks. Also, it makes taking dragon a lot quicker. If you get rolling it's gg.
i really think that people just arent playing him right these days. Everyone builds him lethality - ok why tho? Noc has passive attack speed buff from his W, dmg and ms buff from his Q, cc from his E, wont even talk about the ult cuz its amazing. Why lethality - its a build that lets you jump in do some dmg and die, why not for example attack speed build with some survivability items. My current most used build is: Krakenslayer, Infinity edge, Deaths Dance, Berserkers Greaves, Titanic Hydra and Warmog, and to be honest it makes him very capable in teamfights where he lacks the most. I think that if people start playing him with the right builds and not just some old staple that was a few years ago his popularity will rise up again.
Off tank with high crit is the way to go now. Shieldbow, Black Cleaver, Blood thirster..lotta hp and shields keep him from getting blown up late game, and the high life steal keep him going
i absolutely love nocturne and i believe in low elo he is super super op. i have a winrate arround 60+% on him. i dont know why people hate him so much, but i never want him to be reworked. please keep him the way he is. i LOVE it
Riot is retarded and just wants to rework every champion to be perfect. And who plays Udyr, Voli or Fiddle now? Those reworks turned out to be massive failures once the hype died down.
I think making umbra blades a 3 hit passive is possibly the most fair. it will give him a faster clear and more reliable damage and won't lead to him chain fearing teams if he is snowballed.
I think that if he gets a kill right after using his ult, then his ult should turn into a much weaker version of it. No blackout, just a targeted chase ability with a much shorter range.
The problem with nocturne as a duelist is that his engage is to good. You cant have a duelist with guaranteed engage. He really should be reworked as a diver, that is assuming you want to keep the ult, which is his entire gimmick so it should be kept
I was a fan of Noc before I started to play ADC.
This bastard really the best assassin jungler, he have free AD, free AS, a fckin spell shield for free and long hard cc. If you don't have a flash-n-dash you are condemned.
Nocturne is already a diver.
For the fear instead of a reset if someone dies while feared the 3 hit jumps to closest champion
I played Noc Mid before it was popular and suffered through many dodges and troll bans any time I hovered him.
He was the champ that got me through my Plat Promos. Shame he’s gutted in lane
I like the idea of your rework but I'd go further - lower his free stats and increase his ability scaling so he can either go Conq Bruiser or HoB oneshot. Just my take.
the issue with nocturne is same as every old duelist, riot hates champs that are simple, riot loves champs that have 20 dashes, duelists dont work against champs with 20 dashes.
as you said, his pursuit and pressure nature used to be amazing, and they were the biggest part of his kit. he used q movespeed to channel e, and just maul you down, but now you cant do that because everyone has 20 dashes. its the same reason ww stopped working and was forgotten, his entire thing was getting on you with r, using w to stay on you, and just hacking and slashing his way trough anyone in 1v1.
its the same reason olaf was good, and is now a pocket pick, same as teemo, dashes counter champions that need to be at a fix distance
Back in 2010-2013 i loved to play Nocturne
damn uploads on vars and vars ii. this day cant get any better
atrox wasnt in the game the last time i played LoL, but back then nocturne was a popular pick for sure.
Riven and Master Yi were also in every game.
I feel old watching this video. It has me longing for back when building full crit Nocturne wasn't cringe, or just using Sword of Divine while ulting for the big burst.
Not too long ago with the stridebreaker meta, this champ was played in top, mid, and jungle
I completely understand and hoooooope for a mini rework soon... I'm a Noc main, almost 1 mil. So many champions right now have dashes to the point where your E is so hard to land that you hold on to it until they dash away and you follow with your Q to catch up. Like you said he doesn't really have damage anymore and building him like any other assassin won't help as he has 0 escapes, when you ulti in, you kill someone and get killed yourself. If you take the more tanky build, you last longer yes, but it take you forever to kill someone. I hope they change his kit a little so he can keep up with the new champs but no so much that he feels like a new champ himself. I love the champ, but he just isn't good enough to be a carry or a tank. After 25 min into the game, you are literally just a cc bot to jump onto the adc, press E so your team can get the kill while you just stand there and smile.
I'll honestly be surprised if there's no strange jump cut insinuating something here
top 15 pickrate in plat+ and top 5 pickrate in silver. I see him way more often than I'd like... "Why everyone plays Nocturne" might be a better title.
Nocturne's huge spike actually came when stridebreaker had its dash removed and changed to a 90% slow. Basically, if Noc got on top of you, it was over even if you had flash, and it completely broke the champion to the point where he was #1 wr in top mid and jungle for a month.
I quit League 4 years ago. Nocturne was one of my played heroes. Recently my friends invited me for some flex and i only played Nocturne. I think he's still good and viable.
I just kept farming when my Ult is on cooldown, and ganking when its up. Use it everytime its up whether to kill and just get a Flash.
Ironically nocturne is pretty good at counter engaging because when a diver dives on your adc, you can fear them and do a ton of damage while they are trying to take down your back line. Seriously try it if you are behind as him it can clutch a lot of wins
Also using your ult in that dive moment can give enough confusion to make the enemy team second guess following
have been maining noc since season 5, he’s my first main, played him lethality+crit mid before it became meta and they nerfed it to the ground + lethality changes and durability patch killed him completely, he just can’t oneshot adc with 100 armor, 3k hp and 600hp shield from bt and runes, and even if he gets close to kill - adc has gayforce/dash/invulnerability/shield and so on
Boring statstick that people only play when it’s free lp. Very simple really, same as Trundle, Udyr, Hecarim, Skarner etc.
Make is E aoe, is has the same cast range and windup it does now, but when you press E it his everyone within range. This can give him potential safty when diving
I was gonna say "I see Nocturne all the time!" But then you mentioned about low elo and I was like ahh....yeah.
What if Nocturne's ulti is longer. Imagine Balanar's Ulti from Dota 1 (dota has a day and night cycle) but instead of Night it's the impaired vision that he has but longer maybe 10-15 sec and can still dash? And then so long as he kills / assist during the ulti he can refresh the dash (but won't extend the darkness timer)
I main Noc and love him. I hope they don't ruin him
I really want to see them do another large scale sweep of updates, like the assassin reworks, mostly because I want to see Orianna get modernized and she's really low on their list. I like her a lot, but she could really do with a Morgana level update. Fix her passive, maybe combine her q and e, and help her be seen as a threat again.
IMO combining Q and E without putting some limitation on the E part feels too OP. If you have to, say, do 2-3 autos and the next Q will activate the dissonance part, or the dissonance part of the combo is on its own c/d that's reduced by AA's or landed abilities, that would be good.
I also have no idea what would go into her e afterward, either. Although, if you're suggesting they do a complete rework of her passive, too, what I suggested above sounds like a great integration of all three abilities without dropping their core aspects. Still no idea what would take their place, plus I think the interaction that her Q gives and the high impact of her ult need to stay in some form; Orianna is built around the interactions with her ball, and I just cannot imagine League without Command: Shockwave at this point.
Using his ultimate to quickly move to an ally can give him a slight boost
I really hope this video doesn't remind people he exists and start playing him more. He's definitely carried by his ult but he arguably has the best ult in the game. He's insanely underrated when played right, but he's simple enough for anyone to play as or play against which is kind of cool cause i'm not a fan of the "super complex and/or overloaded" newer champs that many people still don't understand how they work like Aphelios or Akshan as some examples
Akshan is easy to comprehend, very easy at that too
I think that this champ needs a VGU. Currently he either is an assassin with mediocre burst ar best or a bruiser who is basically a darkness bot. Both playstyles do work, but only up to a certain ceiling. Giving him a dash or maybe more tankiness would certainly help, but his kit is disconnected and clunky judging by current LoL standards
His ult should just deal 100% true max health damage globally. Spooky
Its funny I started watching the video for 2 min and paused it, then I watched Pro Play and played a lot of games with a friend and forgot the video.
I played a few new Champs and randomly tested Nocturne... after 2 Games I fell in love with him and can't wait to play him tomorrow.
No after about 12 hours later I come back to the video and think lol... I just learned to love the Champ and became a Nocturne Player xD
i love this video, it's just come so very late. as a former nocturne main (damn near a otp) back in the day, i cant even begin to think of just how many times ive thought of or repeated basically everything said in this video, somewhere. and may have even left suggestions on the old forum back when it actually felt like riot read the suggestions. but nope. E is still scaling to AP for fuck all knows why, umbral blades is still basically useless other than early clear health help, and as many people say, the later the season, the more useless the champ is when his R is on cd. even if you're snowballed and fed, without R or blowing flash you're kinda just a much worse udyr.
also, in my suggestions i used to say the same thing you said about E reset on kill for his W instead, but actually E might be better for pressure purposes. idk, there's an obvious lot they could've done with him, way way long ago, but as the game itself progresses more toward "a million dashes, a billion damage" even if they completely reworked him it'd be kind of pointless imo.
There are only 10 jungle champs with a 5%+ pickrate at Diamond+. Sejuani is one of the best junglers in the game and she is under 4%. Udyr is currently under 3%. Maokai now at 1.6%. The picks at Diamond+ change with every patch.
Playing Nocturne today when almost all champs have billions of dashes - almost inpossible.
kind of weird because when i vs noc, he goes full MR and killing all 5 champions solo.
even though i am fed.
he heals lots and doesn't take damage back.