The Best Yakuza Combat System Debate
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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Which combat system is the best? Is it Yakuza 0, Lost Judgment, Gaiden, or perhaps even Dead Souls?! Frankly, there is no correct answer, but that doesn't mean we can't have a meaningful discussion around the topic. Join us as we ponder what makes the combat here so amazing, and what we can do to improve upon it. I hope you'll enjoy it :)
Cheers!
Songs featured in the video:
Like a Dragon Gaiden OST - Hell's Gate
Like a Dragon Gaiden OST - Heaven's Gate
Like a Dragon Gaiden OST - In Full Blast
Like a Dragon Gaiden OST - Hell's Gate
Videos beside my own game footage:
Into The Coffin You Go, Ihara (by devilleon7):
• Into The Coffin You Go...
I do not own the footage shown in this video.
Please show your support to RGG Studios and SEGA for making this amazing series, as well as the many content creators that were here before me, and have kept this series alive for so long.
#yakuza #ryugagotoku #likeadragon #gaiden #judgment #lostjudgment #unpopular #hated #style #best #combat #discussion
Something being the best doesn't mean it's perfect, and a new system being different than the one perceived as the best one, doesn't mean the new one is effectively worse. Recently, I've seen less and less constructive criticism being offered, with people instead choosing to criticise a new release because its not like an older one they enjoyed (this isn't specific to Yakuza, but I digress).
If we want this series to keep evolving, our discourse needs to evolve from merely saying "the older ones were better", or alternatively, saying that "you're not a fan if you don't like the new games too". As much as we adore them, these games were never perfect, but with each new addition, they've gradually improved in one way or another. Changes we may dislike now, could lead to something universally praised in due time.
Moral of the story: we still have significant room for improvement left in these games, and the sooner we stop being so apprehensive towards anything new, the closer we'll be to helping RGG craft something truly perfect.
Thank you for watching!
The combat obviously peaked with Dondoko Island
It’s got the best combos, enemies can’t just escape
Yakuza 3 but YOU have stunlock
You said lost judgement isn’t perfect? Beware snowiest.
It's not perfect because Kiwami is
It's true tho there's so much to improve on an already great system. I just wish they split styles onto the other dpad buttons cos they're unused
Clearly 3 is the best.
@@Joe-Ligma69Basically just 0’s with some additions and changes, the boss fights are pretty forgettable in that game too, and commits one of the worst game sins.
Definitely the most fluid, but should all games feel as fluid as Lost Judgement? Should Kiryu go all over the place like Yagami does?
yakuza 3 has the best combat because kiryu wears a cool shirt in that one
So true.
Hahahah absolutely agree! Also, thank you for the quality content you do. It's always a joy to watch
True!
Yakuza 3 is literally the best game, period
Nuh uh its dead souls because kiryu has a barret 50 cal (with nerf bullets because he doesn't kill)
My favorite thing about gaiden is the fact that Kiryu Hits so hard in yakuza style. That they fly across the area. That shit is hilarious.
Lore Accurte Kiryu
We all know that Dead Souls clearly had the best combat. Like, who doesn’t like guns
Every non American country
As Shigeru Miyamoto says "every game is better with a gun"
As a dead souls enjoyer your goddamn right
>who doesn't like guns
Any person who opposes Daigo lol
Daigo and Majima substory carries.
Unpopular opinion, I really love 3 combat because of the difficulty of the game (I played on Hard and Legend) that make me actually have to strategize to fight through.
I have to agree with you
This shouldn't be an unpopular opinion at all.
hard agree
I agree with this opinion with bosses. However, I don't really want to strategize with low level punks on the streets that Kiryu canonically can mop the floor with.
3 plays a bit like a fighting game in that sense. I like it.
The thumbnail with Yagami vs Kiryu goes hard
Hope Yagami will appear on mainline entry someday (hige copium)
i mean come on RGG, you used everyone from judgement gang except yagarme, we know you want to
Well put together! You hit the nail on just about everything. The criteria and value of a "perfect" combat system will ultimately differ depending on who you ask. Some people, as much as they want to deny it, have fondness for a game they haven't touched in like 9 years because they just remember it to be peak so they'll keep preaching about it. Others will tell you that the combat having juggling is enough to make it the perfect combat. So eventually when you present what you believe is the "perfect RGG game combat-wise", someone else will just come up and tell you that it doesn't have something that they care about.
I think it is absolutely natural and healthy for a franchise to have highs and at the same time have lows (which even then, they're subjective). Looking at the lows makes us appreciate the highs and vice versa. If everything was on the same wavelength, it would get stale eventually.
Also, Lost Judgment side note, I can't stand the idea of saying it has flawless combat or talking about it like it's the holy grail when it has insane hitbox issues. I love LJ, but if I had a dollar for every time I dealt with wall attacks not connecting or grabs just going through the enemy, I'd be able to buy a brand new copy (or two) of $70 AAA game.
Moral of the story: Like what you like, don't give shit to others for what they enjoy. If you truly want to be objective, each game has something to enjoy at the bare minimum. It's fine if you don't care for it, but someone else might, and you don't have to give them shit just for that.
Woah! It's the Leon clan first chairman, Devilleon7 himself! But in all seriousness, I agree with your sentiment and LJ has a flawed, yet highly evolved combat system that is just one point of RGG's evolution.
P.S.
I love your content, Leon!
Cheers
No offense Leon, but LJ's best trait is its story. On literally one of your videos, the Final Boss battle of LJ on Legend, there's literally a post on your vid that says "Everybody gangsta until the Teacher and Lawyer start floating". I'm paraphrasing, but it has over 400 likes. LJ's combat quality is in how silly it is.
Beautifully put! Replaying the games frequently absolutely helps put things into perspective. Plus, with how different these games tend to be from entry to entry, they're bound to resonate more strongly with one part of the fanbase over another. Also, hard agree on the hitboxes hahahah
I replayed Zero a while back and realized how much I dislike the “Gear” system (referring to different Heat levels). It’s so confusing trying to remember which Heat actions and skills activate at each level, like one of the Breaker skills you learn requires Heat Level 2 to pull off, and trying to get to Heat Level 2 (without wasting inventory space with lower Tauriners) is annoying when you’re trying to focus on just fighting.
Also the Yakuza enemies that spawn in Chapter 9 or 10 for Kiryu can kiss my ass. Constantly stun-lock you with their knives and pistols
Yeah, the 3 bar heat system is genuinely awful, it's one of the things that hold 0 back for me, specially the fact that your combo speed is slower the less heat you have.
This is why I'd say stuff like Rush sucks in 0 but is great in Kiwami 1. Full speed combos no matter your heat in Kiwami 1.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG Ah, maybe that's why I never used Rush in 0 but then was like "wait this is pretty good" in Kiwami
Isn't it literally "Blue" and "Red" heat system from older games, just visually different?
Like, I'd want to hear opinions of people who say it works differently
@@alexeyeliseev6322Here's a very simple way to explain them:
In every game with the blue and red heat system from older games, you can always Tiger Drop regardless of your heat.
In 0, Majima gets his own counter move for Thug style, but can only be used if you have 3 bars of heat, and consumes heat. That should be enough to understand why it sucks.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG Majima's counter is not Tiger Drop, it's a different move. Also, there is still a proto tiger drop Kiryu can use and it does not consume heat. As for Majima, he's got that knife move, dunno what to call it... stabby drop?
I don't mind the more ex boost focused play style over like traditional heat actions but I think my problem with it in gaiden is how strictly enforced it feels. Mainly with agent style, pretty much my whole time playing through the game I felt punished whenever I switched to agent and tried to play in the more "traditional" way I felt like I was being coaxed constantly to turn on ex with the slow combo speed, short dodges and greatly weakened gadgets. Then you turn it on and the game basically plays itself with the infinite mortal reversals and way faster tracking rush combo. In this way I feel like LJ implemented it better cause that game also encourages ex boost with the faster style switching and exclusive ex actions and combos but it also doesn't take away from the base moveset. good video though and I agree that they should keep experimenting!
the best system is MY system, clearly
I agree with you on the point of preferring experimentation over a more safe and consistent combat design. If RGG played it safe we wouldn't have had LJ or Y8,the games that in my opinion are the best in their respective styles of gameplay in the series. But just because they are "the best" does not mean they don't have room for improvement (i.e. comparison Judgment to Lost judgment and Y7 to Y8). I'm very much looking forward to if those games can be surpassed in terms of their quality or better yet, redefine their approach in a way we wouldn't expect to see.
Greetings from Bulgaria, fellow balkaner kyodai!
Като Дракон Гайден
Greetings from Romania!
Yakuza 3 is by far the most underappreciated in terms of combat… the game pretty much forces you to strategize on how you should deal with the enemies and their blocking and not spam the same combo over and over again till the enemy is down
Yakuza 3 is peak.
@@MikeJr9284 LETS GOOO
100% agree fellow Romanian kyodai
3 combat is nothing like the rest of the serious for all the beat reasons. The sounds are super meaty. Plus when you get in bro, hands down one of the best feeling combats in the series. The best? Nah, unique and fun af? Yes sir
I strongly agree with your thoughts on Gaiden's combat.
It doesn't 100% nail everything it was going for. But considering it was a smaller than main entry, 2 styles was absolutely fine. And using the smaller game to experiment with combat was a fantastic idea. Stuff like way more enemies per fight, and Agent Style in general.
It's good to see them willing to experiment rather than just polishing the same thing over and over again.
People seem to forget that Judgment, a full-on main entry, only had 2 styles lmao.
@@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289Judgment isn't a main entry but sure lol
@@DarkkirbyKRPG We're past the point of Judgment being a 'spinoff'. It is it's own IP, not sure what year you're living in
@@alarminglyfastmovingskelet7289It is a spinoff. A really good one that grew to become its own IP (like Persona did to SMT), but a spinoff nontheless to the Like A Dragon series.
@@DarkkirbyKRPG My word choice was poor, I meant main as in full size. Gaiden is smaller than most of the rest of the series. (including the Judgment games)
I love the EX mode of Boxer in Lost Judgement. It's definitely half baked, but the speed and distance is addicting. It's honestly up there with Y5 Akiyama and Y0 Breaker for me in terms of fun.
I completely disagree with your points. Yes experimentation is needed, but it shouldn’t come at the cost of overall quality. Judgment was an experimental title but it directly improved the overall quality of DE combat and set a new standard for it, something that LJ did after Judgment.
Gaiden was an overall downgrade from the DE combat system that LJ established. It made changes that served nothing for the game. The Yakuza style lost so much of its utility from K2 and 6, along with having a slow ass combo speed. The juggling limit literally adds nothing to game but make its combat more limited. The agent style is pretty gimmicky and also limited by itself, certainly not enough to carry the combat. If Gaiden had kept the LJ juggling system, way less people would have complained, because although we’ve regressed to 2 styles, the overall standard and quality we expect from the combat is still left mostly untouched.
At least it was a side game right
Spinoff idea kiryu and Bayonetta start hanging out in okinawa and its a full on character action game but kiryu has a new wheelchair based moveset
Lost Judgment, my beloved. Given how often i hear solely mainline be talked about, I'm happy to hear the combat is recognized in the community.
Another thing to bring up with combat isn’t just the movesets but also the encounters and fights themselves, and how they balance with each other. To me, 6 is a game with a bad moveset but well designed boss fights that almost compensate for Kiryu not being very fun in that game
I find it hilarious that he said Lost Judgment's boxing style was barely a proof of concept when it's easily the strongest style in the game.
the problem with Gaiden isn't that it has too few moves, it's that the 2 styles Kiryu has access to don't feel good to use and don't feel fleshed out enough to be able to handle the massive hordes of enemies thrown at him in a way that's fun to play against, agent feels half-baked with all of it's worthwhile moves locked behind extreme heat, Yakuza style is slower than it is in 6 and K2 with finishing holds being locked behind extreme heat for some reason and the parry being completely gone, doesn't help that heat gain is the slowest it's ever been in Gaiden, the 6 second juggle limit also severely limits expression in combat, forcing you to rely on resets, Kiryu in og Yakuza 2 had a smaller moveset than he does in Gaiden but he was also fast, responsive, had good crowd control with his invincible throws, could actually build heat fast and didn't need to go into a special mode to use finishing holds, I value experimentation too but if a combat system isn't fun or makes changes I feel are for the worse, I'm gonna complain about it
And Kiryu lost the following skills: grab from behind, can't disarm every enemy with a weapon like in Yakuza 6, can't carry a weapon in equipment, a bunch of heat actions from Yakuza 6 and K2 have been removed.
If you play on pc you can fix all of this by mods by making it play like lost judgment with better switching times, speed boosts for dragons and way more new moves for agent
@@rewpertcone8243you can't fix the juggle limit sadly but the game can be made a lot better with mods for sure
I think each combat system is representative of the entry's focus on its combat, so classifying the "best" style is dependent on what the player wants from a combat system.
Like A Dragon & Infinite Wealths are using a standard RPG system with a more ridiculous realistic view, IW being more about positionning and incorporating Brawler combat elements into the pre-existing RPG system.
Lost Judgment clearly had as a main idea "focused versatility". Each style can do a general thing, but players can choose how. Each styles have defensive, evasive and offensive maneuvers
Crane has Sky Dancer/great quickstep/Good crowd control & easy juggle access. Tiger has a Block Strike/Guard Roll/Charged finishers & EX Combo Snake has the guard parry/Quickstep attacks/EX Surrender
(Didn't have the DLC's so I can't talk about Kaito/Boxing style)
Yakuza 0/Kiwami had a segmented approach to styles. Brawler is somewhat well rounded, Rush was about evasive strikes, Beast was about raw damage and pure defense, Dragon was (or at least intended to be, we all know it turned into the Tiger Drop style) all about Heat Management.
Gaiden's two styles have a heavy focus on either Offense and Defense, Agent has defensive techniques more tailored towards long distance encounters, traps and Evasion. Dragon is more focused on all out Agression with charged triple finishers, extremely damaging Heat moves and the tiger drop.
Other Yakuza games were about variety in one style. With different character specializing into different playstyles. Each game also had its little quirks like bounding and 6-K2's focus on physics based interactions.
While i do agree Kiryu's combat in Gaiden can be considered 'near perfect', but if im gonna be honest Lost Judgment still stays on top, not because it has multiple styles and the juggling mechanic. Its the best because well, people enjoy it and the find it fun. You can argue people like the game because they wanna be stylish or for any other popular reason. But in Gaiden's case its a game made in 6 months and the combat feels undercooked especially for Agent style, it has its uses mostly for ex heat, and the heat gain is sooooo slow and the gadgets are not that useful for the most part. Unless if you cheese and serpent your way to objects or enemies and for Yakuza style its so damn slow compared to Kiwami 2 and 6 and some moves that were added in Kiwami 2 either got removed or deemed useless like the parry and the light charges for example, people complain about the juggle limit because it prevents players to play their own way and having fun and the fact most enemies are very aggressive. While i did expect Gaiden's combat to mix the DE and OE moves im still dissapointed by it but mods can slightly fix it but guess its been done. I do like the story and the content of the game but the combat feels undercooked, i dont blame RGG for this but decisions on the combat for the game is odd like the juggle limit, they couldve not just add the juggles in the first place in Gaiden and it shouldve had more moves. My point still stands that both Lost Judgment and 0 are the best combat.
honestly, i wish more action/action rpg discussion contextualized itself within the larger meta genre and its development/techniques. very glad to see someone talking about it in this context.
LJ, Gaiden and 0 are the best
Nobody is saying LJ is perfect, but it is definitely more polished compared to Gaiden. You probably wont even read the rest of this comment but honestly This comes off like you're trying hard to defend against gaidens flaws yet the key point you're missing when comparing LJ to Gaiden isn't cause there's less styles or less juggle time. It's about is how the games systems are incomplete with itself Say what you want about snake and boxer style but they complement all 4 styles better when it comes to boss design cause they actually interact with all of Yagamis moves. However, with Gaiden's bosses, they tank all of Kiryu's hits where you can barely get a combo in while hardly any of the utility of Agent styles gadgets even work against them. You menrion extreme heat mode being an "evolution" yet Kiryu's agent style combo inconsistently launches enemies when it wants to and you cant even use his regular melee combos in it compared to LJ's extreme heat. Idek why you used bayonetta as an example because the systems in that game actually work with eachorher. It could've been an evolution if they spent more than some months developing the game, then the combat could've been more polished, but compared to LJ it isn't. THAT is the problem with it. You didn't even explain what makes it an evolution besides the enemies scale and saying "I liked it" lol
I'd wish there was a lot more freedom like Lost Judgment for Gaiden
But Uncle Ben, everyone knows the best combat was in Yakuza 4
i mean lowkey i think yakuza 4 has some of the best fighting styles in this series. akiyama and tanimura are serotonin incarnate
Longest comment in the known universe ahead, beware.
The thing I would say as a fervent and devout Gaiden hater is that any new thing they tried to impliment to stop it from feeling like Judgment 3 fails on a conceptual level, at least for me. Agent style as a whole feels like an overly flashy gimmick, as it has no real options for crowd control outside gadget spam since the really wide-reaching moves are at the end of the combo, or locked behind extreme heat. Yakuza style, by contrast, had a lot of its uniqueness and utility from 6 and K2 taken away for the sake of prioritizing Agent style, and because of my previous thoughts, I can't help but feel like it was unjustly nerfed. Look just beneath the surface, and you'll realize just how many moves were taken away from it (not to mention the dropkick and heavy charge attack still being the terrible ones from K2).
The way I've found best when it comes to judging each game's combat is finding a way to decrease my attack as much as possible. Remove all sense of a power trip and judge it solely on this question: When doing basically no damage and defeating enemies very slowly, am I still having fun? For most of the games, that answer is yes.
In 0 and K1, the core system with style switching creates a very fun gameplay loop. Low damage gives me more time to try new strategies and combos.
In 3, the constant need to strategize makes the battles being so drawn out feel so satisfying. It's almost like that feeling you'd get from a turn based game, but in active combat.
In 1 and 6, every move has a specific utility and purpose, so finding their use in battle feels satisfying. At low damage, I'm more encouraged to see how all of my options fit into any given combat encounter.
In LJ, the moveset bloat results in a sort of joy knowing that at any given moment, I have a vast multitude of options for how I want to deal with enemies. The extra time given by low attack damage gives me ample opportunity to try more options than I would otherwise.
In Gaiden, I'm limited in both options and utility, as there's an obvious dominant strategy (constantly use Spider or juggle with drunk Yakuza until hitting extreme heat, then swap back to Agent, rinse repeat), with the only other alternative being to whittle down enemy health bars and pray they don't get random super armor and deny my already limited combos. The only joy I get from it is the power trip.
There's plenty more to be said about how enemy behavior factors into this, and that's where my biggest complaints with 6 and LJ lie, but I've said more than enough as is. I hope I come off as relatively justified in my complaints, obviously I don't care how a game feels as long as it feels good, but the sheer drop in my experience from LJ to Gaiden can't leave me feeling anything less than total disappointment. I hope if/when we get another brawler style game, that they take the lessons learned from Gaiden and iterate on the series in a more positive direction. More options with more reasons to use them, less options with multi-purpose utility, polishing previous ideas or something entirely new. Anything. I just want to see this series prove that it still has what it takes to do my favorite genre of game in a way that only it can.
Kurohyou 2 wins no debate
as long as you're not in a group encounter
People who say Gaiden needed more styles are looking at the flaws of the combat and finding the wrong solution.
Agent is janky, undercooked, and unintuitive and Yakuza style is back to 6 speeds with no way to improve the speed. Gaiden enemies are super aggressive but there's no parry(despite him having one in literally every game) and Kiryu is sluggish which leads to stale and degenerate strategies being rewarded in favor of experimentation or style.
Yakuza style in particular is frustrating because it's not only slow but the moves it shares with Tiger are somehow worse, it still has the shitty K2 run attack instead of the 6 drop kick, and the hitboxes seem to lack verticality leading to juggles getting dropped due to Kiryu straight up whiffing
The juggle limit is a good idea in theory but 6 seconds is wayyyy too short and the lack of damage scaling is a bit of a problem
Yakuza k1, 3, 4, and lost judgment will always be my favorite due to the depth of there combos
Y5 Kiryu, Y4 Akiyama and LJ Yagami are my definite favorites. So much fun. But man, does it fell great to unlock Tiger Drop in Y3 and wreck people.
I don’t necessarily want to do infinite combos, while it’s not perfect, LJ juggling does last a long time but the damage decreases the longer you keep it going, while in Gaiden there’s no damage decrease but it only lasts around 5 seconds.
You cooked with the thumbnail Kyodai. When i was doing my yakuza 0 no upgrade run, i realised that the game's combat was not as perfect as i originally thought. Cough cough heat gear system. I disliked the idea of combo speeds increasing the higher the heat level was.
Yooo
I think gaiden's isn't as polished as LJ but it's definitely a good combat and I think it does not deserve all the negativity surrounding it
I just wish RGG brought back the agent style in infinite wealth
Gaiden did 2 steps forward, but old problems, mainly hit detection, got worse making those two steps have much smaller relevancy.
Lost Judgement, to me, has the most fluid and varied combat. Gaiden gave me agent, which is probably my overall favorite combat style, especially for the dragon engine.
LJ still is the best for me atleast till this point (im still on kiwami 2), everything just flows and feels responsive compare to the others games i’ve played. its probably one of the games where i was encourge to switch style on every fight encounter like Ghost of Tsushima, where every styles just have their own uses plus the game rewards you for it.
to be honest i would so be down for a shishido gaiden game purely gameplay wise. agent is fun but clearly can use refinement, and he's the only character to which you could copy paste an improved version and have it make sense.
For me, lost judgment is my favorite, mainly cause of juggling and such but within a sense none of the games have a bad combat system they all have a system that is meant to fit it's game
Edit: And from what i seen of gaiden, i probably will also like it but haven't played yet
My favorite combat systems in my opinion are Yakuza 0's, Yakuza kiwami, and Lost Judgement. Though if i did had to pick one, it would be Lost Judgement. It's not perfect I know, but the main thing I like about Lost Judgement's combo system besides the improved juggling I show it encourages the player to not stick to one style, and one of the most stylish combat systems in the franchise. Though I will say I wish they had given Kaito a third style, and that you didn't have press multiple buttons for the qtes.
I know this is a spinoff, but Kurohyou's combat is absolutely great in my opinion. There's a lot of styles, and you can feel the impact with each hit and the sfx adds to that. You can even make your own style in Kurohyou 2.
To me, the parry mechanic ruins the combat of Kurohyou 1 and 2, at least a bit. I say this as a guy who literally got parried by every enemy and boss in both Kurohyou 1 and 2, even when they were kneeled down in K1.
@@DarkkirbyKRPGI guess it encouraged me to learn how to counter as well. Plus, grabs are insanely strong in kurohyou 1 but I know it's not fun to abuse that all the time. I think in 2, enemies parry less I'm not sure
In regard to dragon engine, Gaiden puts Kiwami 2 and 6 to shame.
As someone who’s huge into action games and ofc yakuza, gaiden was for sure a disappointment in terms of its combat system, not necessarily because of it having only two styles but mainly because style switching is so slow in that game, it makes making cool or flashy looking combos harder, the juggle system is effectively much worse because 6 hits and your opponents already on the ground making for extremely limited combos.
What this game DID do right in terms of combat was damage scaling, in LJ when you did a juggle your damage and heat actions would do shit for damage, a heat action would do 1 damage instead of its usual because of a juggle you were doing. In that way gaiden took one step forward but with my points it took two steps back. Hopefully for the next game with beat em up combat they’ll learn to use the strengths of both gaiden and LJ to use🙏
where are my yakuza 3 fans at
dunno about fans but the yakuza 3 enjoyer is here
I'm one of them I know it's not the best put it is a really good game if look over the flaws it has
Lost judgement no arguing
5, LJ, LAD:IW and K1 are my personal favorite but i love all the games combat, playing each one is an unique experience ❤
You can just cheese the six second juggle thing by dropping them before it happens and instantly rejuggle them. It just punishes the player for having fun. Really, I don't think there's a single thing that Gaiden does better than LJ combat wise. Agent is useless without spamming gadgets/entering EX-Heat and Yakuza is horribly slow somehow compared to Y6. Like another comment said, Agent feels like a gimmick to deal with the bigger enemy count.
Pretty much, all the juggle limit does is just pigeonhole players into using a select few moves before letting the enemy drop to the ground, and doing it all again. And really it’s inevitable that Gaiden’s gonna be compared to LJ anyway since it uses the exact same base except p much everything LJ did well they either didn’t do or made worse. I do still like Gaiden’s combat though even if it is essentially bootleg LJ lmaooooooo.
only games with combat i dont really like the feel of are kiwami 2 and 7
I'm shocked to learn people didn't like Agent Style. I thought it was super fun.
Get Hideki Kamiya to make the next like a dragon spinoff
We'll have to wait until September before he can officially return to the industry post his exit from Platinum, but I would play the HELL out of that game 😁
@@gokudoni Screw any bit of realism I want Kiryu to be launching dudes 10 ft off the ground and doing dmc4 type air combos lol
No, lost judgment is my favorite game and thus it has the best combat, my opinion is objectively better than everyone else's /s
But seriously, while I do agree with the video, one of your points you listed for gaiden don't work for me.
Shortning juggle time just straight up made juggling less fun, especially since you can _still_ get infinite juggles easily, and speaking of juggles, i don't like how it's nearly impossible to pull them off on bosses without eating damage in Gaiden, the only time i'd be able to pull them off consistantly is if i was able to do a mortal reversal near a wall.
Other than that, i also didn't like Gaiden's hyper armor, it felt too unfair, especially with Gai Amon since he can tiger drop you even in the middle of a back combo, I found that lost judgment's solution of just having the enemy block your combo instead of hyper armor is better, you're not getting off super long damaging combos from a single dodge, but you're also not getting fucked over.
I really Enjoyed every combat but out of all of them I think Yakuza 5 was my favorite
Considering how every character is strong in their own way what I loved about 5’s combat is that it’s more on the equal side of 0 and Ishin Kiwami
I do love how much combat has changed and been experimented on since, and i loooove gaiden's combat especially, however i will firmly state that yakuza 2 still did it best way back nearly 20 years ago
I personally think every combat are generally all amazing in every game, they are all great in their own right
Lost Judgement and Gaiden Dragon system are my favorite
Closely folowed to Yakuza 5
A thought I have on the inherent differences between Brawler and Turn-Based, is Brawler is more towards the skilled player, and Turn-Based to the thoughtful player. Now, skill and thought go into both (looking at you, no-damagers), but each lean into their "preferred" player.
A Brawler game can be no-damaged, whereas a Turn-Based can't, simply due to it being out of the player's control when the enemy hits. Brawlers need some skill outright to beat them (namely with Gaiden's Amon fight, his healing can seriously test your skill), but after a while, Turn-Based can become simply whittling away at a health bar, using moves over and over, using items to gain back MP. Turn-based counters the issue of 'whittle away the boss' with flashy moves, ones too ridiculous even for heat actions.
There's inherit good, inherit bad with each system, more initmate, you're-there-in-the-fight feeling with Brawlers, and the JRPG zaniness with turn-based.
Then comes along Kiryu in Infinite Wealth who gives the middle-finger to it all and goes into a Brawler, canonically so at times. (If you count the memory spheres with the Three Jimas as 'canon.')
Gaiden literally did not improve upon anything. If it did, what exactly?
I just feel that people see that the combat of lost Judgment is the herald of the best RGG combat system they made and anything that doesn’t match its style or goes beyond itself isn’t worth noting.
Though each games combat is different from it’s predecessor in one shape or form as though some games like yakuza 3-4 or yakuza 5-0 uses the same engine, they build upon new mechanics and strengthen the foundations of its predecessor’s combat style.
For me it’s Lost Judgment, but the problem with that game is that there isn’t a place you can fight even skilled enemies and the bosses are too easy. Gaiden for me has literally the exact opposite problem (looking at you 11 health bars WITH A SWORD Shishido)
About Gaiden it’s pretty weird, I don’t really think feels worse than LJ but it’s more limiting, and is weirder since Gaiden is literally built off LJ. It’s just small things like the style switch speed being slower, but it’s still fast enough to not break the flow of combat. I kinda see what they were doing wanting Yakuza style to be hard hitting and slow while agent is the super fast style. I think a better tradeoff would’ve been to double the speed but nerf the damage in half. Gaiden also has this weird combo interruption thing happening when you walk and it does something, not sure if it’s because of the map but it didn’t really happen in LJ. It happened in games before LJ but who knows since LJ wasn’t in sotenbori.
Yakuza style is as slow as Kiryu in 1 which I found really weird, but the trailers and pre-release footage show all of that.
OG Yakuza 2 fans, where ya at?
we strive so much in seeking perfection we often become blinded to the flaws of that which we deem perfect for the sake of putting that thing on a pedestal and often times perfection is imposible to achive truely which is to say every yakuza game can be someones favorite my favorites gameplay wise are gaiden 7/8 kiwami 1 and 0
Great video as always. I really like your perspective on the subject. To me, the best combat systems are 0 and Lost Judgements. But it might be different for another player. Depends what you're looking for in the game, but also how well it matches the story and character.
On another note, since you're also a Tekken player, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on 8's story. I personally found it lacking. But maybe you picked up something I missed.
The combat should make sense in the context of the game.
Beautifully put i think hard to find an objective answer the "best system" each game combat despite it flaws does it intends to well it not perfect but that nature of experimentation it fascinating to see as not many games fo that today
Also can do video like this talking about the music direction in the series and it changed over the last few entries
The best is Yakuza Kiwami 1. It does everything Y0 does but better, the encounter design is better and unlike Y0 it has Tiger Drop. Not to mention it has the best Amon encounter imo.
Nope. Combat is too disruptive, does not flow properly, nerfed heat system is lacking compared to 0, and stun-lock is too common. Too many annoying bosses, not because they are hard but because they stun too much. Also, normal is too easy and hard mode is too stale with high HP enemies and nerfed damage.
yakuza 5 is better then kiwami 2 fight me
Yakuza 5, Lost Judgment, Kiwami 1.
Kiwami 1 combat is too disruptive, does not flow properly, nerfed heat system is lacking compared to 0, and stun-lock is too common. Too many annoying bosses, not because they are hard but because they stun too much. Also, normal is too easy and hard mode is too stale with high HP enemies and nerfed damage.
@@johnanderson3899 i like Kiwami 1 more because rush isn't useless anymore because of the stupid heat = speed mechanic in 0, and faster style switching. But idk what to say other then that tbh, kiwami 1 is still one of the games I had most fun fighting in, 🤷🏼♂️
@@user-tl3ie7tw8n And they made BEAST mostly useless in-exchange. It's poor game design when some bosses take 15-20 minutes to kill on HARD mode.
@@johnanderson3899 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️ idk what to say bro other then I hear you critiques but tbh that doesn't change anything about how I find Kiwami 1 a more enjoyable fighting game then 0, Kiwami 2, 3, 4, blah blah blah. I hear your critiques and they're valid but it's like you're arguing why I shouldn't like the system. Like idk what you want me to say lmao
@@user-tl3ie7tw8n And I also wonder who is the idiot that thought the boss battle with Jingu was an awesome idea. The guy took half an hour to kill on HARD, but playing on normal is too easy. Same with the horrible feature that bosses can now heal themselves while your heat is nerfed and your being disrupted with stun-lock all the time during boss fights, it's fucking retarded.
honestly original ps2 yakuzas
all of the combos had its own use and then they just forgot
Thank you for the video, love your content!
9:06 the heat orbs you know gokudoni you were talking about yakuza 6
First of all, great video
I want to share my personal opinion on the matter too since this is a topic that is really dear to me. I fell in love with this series mostly because of the action combat.
As a lover of Lost Judgement's combat I can honestly say I'm surprised when I hear people complain about Gaiden and Ishin Kiwami's combat systems. Honestly it feels to me like a lot of people are eager to jump on bandwagons and accept an opinion without really looking further into it. I fully agree that more combat styles isn't necessarily a good thing, for example I think that the boxing style in LJ is actually a detriment to the overall system (it was originally DLC in fact). Snake style is being slept on massively, it is super good in the right contexts and most importantly I think the fact that you can't switch to a specific style is a solid choice because it creates a specific flow of combat with the three styles buffing and playing into each other. Boxing is the odd one out and I seriously advise everyone to deactivate it, at least in their first playthrough.
Gaiden's two styles are really enough. I don't get why we would need another one and the people who complain about it should stop for a moment and really think about *why* they want another style... is it maybe because other games have had more than two? Is that really a good reason? I personally think that Gaiden's combat is overall weaker than LJ's but for a reason that I'll go into later.
Ishin Kiwami's combat is absolutely great. I really do not get how someone might think it is not. There is a really big issue with it, I agree, but it's something that can be easily ignored if wanted; the cards system. The troop card abilities can be insanely powerful and the buffs themselves are crazy. If you really really grind them out and gacha the best cards and level them up you'll be incredibly OP to the point that the combat loses all of its value. This is not something unique to Ishin Kiwami, Yakuza 0 could reach a similar conclusion with the legend styles, but luckily this is an issue that can be fixed completely by simply not engaging with the troop cards. Treat them as consumables or a difficulty option and the issue disappears. (Another issue I could add is the over reliance on weapon quality but that's kind of the design of the game being different than usual. For some it's cool to get new and improved weapons)
What really makes this a difficult discussion is the fact that combat quality isn't solely reliant on the system itself but also on the enemies you will face. What good is a perfect fighting system if the enemies are not fun to fight?
This can be seen with 0 and Kiwami 1. Arguably, Kiwami 1's combat is a simply improved version of 0 so why don't people claim it's the best one? Simple, because the boss fights in Kiwami 1 are generally sub par if not outright terrible with only a couple being really memorable.
Even more confusing is the fact that the overall quality of a game can influence its opinion on the combat. Again 0 vs Kiwami 1 comes to mind, since the latter's side content and story are considered worse than the former, reasonably so. Kiwami's fighting style can't shine in a game that people are not stoked to play.
Gaiden itself suffers from the simple fact there's no NG+ and legend difficulty available. I can't really fully explore this combat system if the game is too easy.
At one point in the video you talk about how we shouldn't put certain games on a pedestal and compare every other entry to them to ascertain whether they have a good combat system or not. I agree wholeheartedly with this statement but I feel it is equally as important to recognize that certain elements can be analized as being "objectively" better than others. Sure, the combat system in 3 works for its game's scope and needs but if I asked you or really anyone else which game's combat they would sooner want in a new game, would you choose 3? It's important to understand WHY 3's system is flawed and why LJ's is so good etc etc. Gaiden exists because the devs looked at LJ's combat, saw the good reception and realized what needed to be done. Accepting that there indeed are systems that are better than others is important otherwise there could be no improvement.
if we’re counting all Yakuza games as opposed to splitting up the turn-based and the action games, my personal top 5 goes
Lost Judgment
LAD: Gaiden
Infinite Wealth
Kiwami 2
Akiyama in 4/5
Combat wise I personally had the most fun with gaiden and kiwami 1
Don't get me wrong, the Snake style in Lost Judgement wasn't exactly necessary, but I'm glad Yagami has it. It's not only kinda fun, but its also pretty good in combos.
The experimentation in combat systems is great! This series' gameplay definitely wouldn't feel as interesting and new if every game was literally just a copy-paste of the previous one. Gaiden's combat definitely brings a lot of positive aspects that open up for improvement if RGG decides to go along with stuff like gadgets for styles (huge missed opportunity to make Serpent gadget usable outside of combat btw).
I do think the concept of multiple styles is a huge bonus for the combat and imo RGG shouldn't ever go back to just one, but I also don't want more than, let's say, 4 per character. I'd rather see them experiment and improve upon the styles in different ways rather than unnecessarily making an entirely new one, possibly at the expense of an old one.
The next step is air combos with Sugiura in Judgment 3.
Nice video, shorter than usual but still thought-provoking!
Yakuza 5 honestly had the best combat for me next to 0 gaiden and kiwami 1
Hey there my Balkan aniki, this is slightly off topic but I was wondering if you had any ideas for future Gaiden games? I think an Akiyama game would be interesting and would make a lot of sense. Also, regarding combat, I am oddly a fan of the weapon centric Kiwami 2 combat (I know this is a fringe opinion.) Anyways, hope you have a good week, as always your videos continue to be extremely thought provoking and I really appreciate your content.
Thank you for the kind words! I'd love to see an Akiyama game, especially with the off-hand mention of Singapore in Infinite Wealth. Other than that, my other top contenders for a Gaiden would be Mine, Ryuji, Aizawa and Ukyo Tatsuya (also, agree on the weapon-based side in K2 being really fun)
@@gokudoni Wow, a Ryuji/Mine game would be amazing! I also think a Kurohyō style game with Shounen elements set when Kiryu and Nishiki are in highschool would be really interesting. That one cutscene from Zero really peaked my interest, no one ever seems to bring that idea up.
This video ain't it chief.
I disagree heavily with almost everything said in this video, Gaiden has many many issues that goes beyond a casual level of understanding. It has to do with the combat being an undercooked and an unpolished mess of on the fly stupid decisions that plagued this game entirely.
Say what you will about LJ but LJ is at least a top contender for best combat in this series so far, clearly something that cannot be said about Gaiden in any way, shape or form.
for some reason, lately yakuza "fans" have been so sensitive about the latest games. they never wanna say anything negative about it. pray to god you dont get the ultimate yakoooza fan reply; "Did you actually play any of the games in the series!!!?"
@@KhaledSham yeah, I've found myself as a new player kinda disappointed especially with 0 cause how people treat it like it has no negative side, resulting in me letting my expectation goes wild and ended up killing almost half of the fun. I wish I gone playing it blindly like I did with judgment.
@@Sal_II14 fr, imo yakuza 0 is probably the best in the series overall but it still has many flows. I was so lucky when I started playing it back in 2018 yakuza was niche franchise. Man I hate how this community has changed. Anyways, have fun with all the rest of the series and I highly recommend going into these games blindly like u did with judgment 🫡
The community can't see the negatives about games they like, it's a normal occurrence within any community out there. I simply would like to point out that there's no need for a debate. LJ is not perfect but damn is it a good game to waste your time in and sink into that game's world and combat.
Gaiden in all intent and purposes it's not a good game, in a franchise with no bad entries, Gaiden existing just breaks that and does more harm. The game is a 5/10 on a good day and that's me being generous and not giving it a lower score.
I hope we get to avoid more games like Gaiden in the future.
@@seidv779 LJ is probably the only one I’ll continue to replay, its basically my favorite game aot right now. its not perfect yes but its by far the most polish and fun experience i’ve had with the series as a new comer.
Lost judgement best combat. Gaiden is too inconsistent. 6 is weak but got impact. 5 is solid. 4 is rly good. 3, for me satisfying but lowkey drawn out. K2 idk don't like it. K1 rly good. 0 just rly rly good
Kiwami 1 combat is too disruptive, does not flow properly, nerfed heat system is lacking compared to 0, and stun-lock is too common. Too many annoying bosses, not because they are hard but because they stun too much. Also, normal is too easy and hard mode is too stale with high HP enemies and nerfed damage.
5.
TRUE
And that is why Yakuza Online has the best combat system
Maybe controversial but my favorite combat are kiwami 1, judgment and every playable character in yakuza5(excluding haruka of course)😅
I'm of the mindset that there is room for multiple "best" combat systems, all depending on what your personal preferences are on several factors.
Like, if you enjoy the Kiwami engine combat then take your pick - 5, 0, or K1, if you enjoy the dragon engine, LJ or Gaiden, and so on. This video is actually the first time I hear of people calling Gaiden disappointing, and it mystifies me. I personally loved it, just wish there was more of it (one of the best shortcomings a game could have!) but I still feel like I got my money's worth and had a great time. I'm not entirely sure where I'd rank it on my favorite games in the series, though I know my top 2 are 0 and LJ... I haven't finished IW yet, so we'll see if Gaiden or IW compete for third place (previously Kiwami 2).
Speaking of judgment has there been any reason regarding a new entry?
Greetings from Romania 🇷🇴
My favourite combat it yakuza ,,like a dragon "Gaiden it just so fun and somehow i liked more yakuza 3's combat because it actually challenges the player to change his style not just mash square but i can understand why some people hate it because BLOCK anyway can't wait for the next vid. Bud :))
clearly the peak of combat is Yakuza Fury
I think a lot of fan discourse does end up losing the nuance of where combat systems can be improved. When people spend a long time learning game systems, they can end up being excessively defensive. LJ is still my favourite combat system in an RGG game, but there's always room for improvement, and I was more than satisfied with Gaiden clearly taking influences from LJ while being its own thing (and having its own unique flaws).
I also think at this point, including Infinite Wealth in the discussion is worth doing and proof why continuing to experiment is for the best. While real time and turn based combat is fundamentally very different, IW is one of the best implementations of real time/turn based hybrid combat I've ever seen.
pre-dragon engine i would say 5 has the best combat. post dragon engine would be lost judgment though i loved agent style in gaiden
I fully believe that Kiwami 1 is the best.
Kiwami 1 has Styles and incredible combos, you can do infinites and style switch mid combo.
Whilst LJ is incredible i really dont like the focus on juggling because its a bit too accesible or more so i dont think you canreally differentiate between a good and bad "juggler" also i unfortunatly dont really like juggling.
0 is similiar to K1 but unfortunately you cant style switch mid combo as easily and theres no time for godspeed.
5 is incredible but the weak bosses and being OP just makes it hard to replay also combos are very hard.
Gaiden is basically a heat action simulator and juggles are very inconsistent and sadly timed but i will admit that despite these flaws i still see people mastering it which i respect.
But i think it just depends on if your a Dragon Engine Enjoyer or a Kiwami Engine Enjoyer. If you prefer juggles and heat actions with stylish effects then LJ will problaby be your favorite, if you enjoy the more classic "crunch" to attacks and a focus on combos and infinites then K1 will be your favorite. And if you love wallbounding then maybe its 3 or 4. And if you want to "SHINEYA BOKE" and "IKUZO KORA" then you may just enjoy Kurohyou.
At the end of the day it depends on how you like your combos (or dont) and dont let anyone tell you whats the best, you can have fun with every combat in every game, heck even yakuza 3 has some incredible wallbounds and combos so find what fits you the best.
Gaiden has had my favorite combat
I’d rather have 2 really optimized fighting styles than 4 styles for the sake of 4 styles
Me hating on yakuza turn based combat system meanwhile I play turn based games everyday on my phone
I must be alone in thinking Gaiden is where the combat peaked. It felt like the full completion of Kiryu’s styles in the engine. What did people not like about it?
Also personally I’m not a fan of Yagami’s style and how weak he feels compared to Kiryu. Though I never got the boxing style
We all know the best combat is found in Kurohyou 2, followed by 1 and Yakuza 3
What a dumb question, obviously the monkey ball kiryu had the best combat in the series.