Britain's TILTING DIESEL High Speed Train - Avanti West Coast's Super Voyager in FIRST CLASS!
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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2023
- Today I'll be looking at Avanti West Coast's Super Voyager trains, which are due to be phased out starting at the end of 2023 by the newer Class 805 and 807 units by Hitachi - whilst the train was brilliant, Avanti's first class offering was little to be desired on this occasion... as for why? Find out in this video!
Journey details:
Date of Travel - February 2023
Operator - Avanti West Coast
Train Type - Class 221 "Super Voyager"
Origin - Chester
Destination - London Euston
Price - £71.65/€82.77/$87.64 (Advance first single, including 1/3 Railcard discount - reduced to £0 through delay repay!!)
Duration - 2 hours, 6 minutes
Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoyed the video!
Music from EpidemicSound and is used under license.
A massive thanks to @downonthestour for his contributions to this video, please do check out his channel!
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Link to the Avanti menu: www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/tra...
#class221 #avanti #avantiwestcoast #firstgroup #trenitalia #chester #london #euston #tripreport #pendolino #class390 #vlog
Great review, it’ll be interesting to see Avanti’s IETs when they are in service, particularly as they do not tilt
I've spent a lot of time on Voyagers on the WCML as I used to get the 06:25 to Glasgow from Wigan fairly regularly until they stopped the service (thankfully replaced with a 06:29 service now) . It was always frustrating that all of the journey was under the wires and sadly the "E-Voyager" never happened many years ago despite talk of it. It's a shame an electric "pod", which would be the reverse of the diesel one on GE's Class 755s, couldn't be added.
I've always had an OK journey on them with Avanti and VTWC, but find sometimes the underfloor engines can be fairly loud at 125mph.
Great vlog. Thank you
Those Super Voyagers are nice. I hope the new ones don't have iron board seats and extreme bright interior lights
I googled HS2 and it is confirmed going in to Euston
I don't believe we need 400 Kph high speed. In 2018 Tom May questioned the decision to design for 400km/h running. HS2 had shown that increasing the design speed by 20% would save just four minutes from London to Birmingham, but increase energy costs by a quarter. HS2’s spokesperson simply replied “because we can”. That's not good engineering. In Spain they can't get enough of high speed rail, with much of the country very dry and mountainous, with sparse populations it's perfect for a modern rail system. It's easy to use EU funding to create brand new high speed lines. The UK's too dense and jealous and protective of land by anyone. I often wonder how much it would have cost to implement IC 225, or about 140 Mph? The class 91 electric locos were designed to run at that speed on the ECML but were unable to because of inadequate signalling.
Maria Ramirez explains how Spanish HSTs have been supported on all sides of the political divide. Britain has 68 miles of High speed track, or HS1 as it is known. I'd love to know whether we want it or not?
Spain has managed to build itself the longest high-speed rail network in Europe and the second longest in the world, now spanning approximately 2,500 miles (4,000km) (and still expanding). By way of comparison, France has built 1,740 miles (2,800km), and Britain - still coming to terms with its latest high-speed fiasco - 68 (110km).
Tony May
Emeritus professor of transport engineering, University of Leeds
They will have the same seats that are going into the Pendolinos
@@stuarthart3370 I'm rather sick of hearing this misinformed tabloid newspaper argument. Andrew McNaughton is clear that HS2 will NOT normally operate at 400Kmh because the main intention of the high design speed is NOT journey time reduction, but instead it will allow the trains to run a bit faster as required for delay recovery to ensure timetable resilience. This resilience in turn allows tighter timetabling, for greater utilization of the line, maximizing potential return on the massive fixed investment. Given that the additional cost (over say 320Kmh design speed) is minimal this can be seen to be a prudent design decision for a densely populated country like the UK. Of course Sunak has now torpedoed the potential benefit by canceling the northern sections of the line.
08:30 Regarding the service Euston to Glasgow that runs as a 221 only. I believe its done this way to allow staff based north of crewe etc to keep their competency on the 221's. So should something happen and all overhead lines are down, they can still use the 221s to provide some form of train service.
11:55 Coach D and K on a double unit are 2+2 seating with tables only as those carriages can be switched between standard and first class. Majority of the time its used for standard but it can be turned to 1st only if there is a need for it. (i.e. if 1st class overfills).
I think you just had some rotten luck with your original train being cancelled, and then having staff shortages. Also this was filmed back in Feb 2023 and if I'm not mistaken, wasnt that during the avanti catering strikes which would explain the staff shortages?
I travelled with avanti the month before and 1st class service was perfect (it also shown how badly my local TOC [EMR] have to improve on their 1st class service). Got delayed by 30+ mins however wasnt an issue as I got 50% off my ticket back plus more food from the staff.
Babe wake up, new Midland London just dropped
Don’t lie, we’re train enthusiasts. There is no babe.
@@MikesBakes Loool
Good to see you back on RUclips
Very great trip report mate. I realy want to try this out one day
1:36 that's the second time you did that
Very happy to hear that the non-tilting trains will in fact be able to run to 125mph with those engineering works. I’ve heard a lot of Voyager hate over the years, but have become far more fond of them too. Bigger windows for one! But with the better seats in refurbished Pendolino standard class, they’re more six in favour of one, half-dozen for other, now. Although, I think leather seats in 1st are more form over function - just don’t find them as comfy. Another great video, thanks!
They wont, there's a few areas where the line speed will be uprated but the new trains will do the majority of their route at 110. I wouldn't be very happy with trains traveling at dangerous speeds tbh
@@Trainman10715 There will be significant lengths where the new trains will be travelling at speeds higher than 110 mph, even though most of that will be below 125 (if slightly). It definitely won't be unsafe in any case. I think I did read something about adopting a new, more detailed formula for calculating curvature-based speed restrictions somewhere? From what I recall the old method is from the 1970s and can be relatively imprecise in some cases
@@andrewreynolds4949 no there won't, there's the bit between rugby and Coventry and then some other small sections that will be upgraded so long as network rail don't cancel it on cost grounds. It certainly is unsafe to run non tilting trains at tilting speeds hence why the class 397s only had a brief tenure at 125 before they were brought back down to 110 on safety grounds. They may well adopt a new formula but the lateral forces don't care what formulas you use, they remain the same. BR also already tried to update the curve speeds in the 90s for the intercity 250 project and all they managed to upgrade was the rugby-Coventry bit before they reached the same conclusion that was reached with the 397s
@@Trainman10715 Take your complaints up with the Network Rail engineers who are implementing the new formulas. If you can better predict the behavior at speed with more detail, you can tighten up some of the excess allowances while still staying within the safety margins. There was a presentation on it somewhere, I'll see if I can find it again
@@andrewreynolds4949 I won't need to, the fact is that whatever formulas you use, the passenger comfort doesn't change, rounding corners at higher speeds without tilting causes passenger discomfort. I'd highly suspect that they'll end up finding out the same thing that they found out with the 397, which is that tilting trains tilt for a reason. Particularly taking into account the already appaling ride quality of the 80Xs
Done Chester to MKC in First class on a voyager and needless to say then the experience was far better when it was with Virgin but when Avanti changed up the timetable drastically never really went back since due to price and changes.
I have had a fun experience on all my trips to Chester and never really found any issues
We lost the North wales services for MKC but they swapped it for the Liverpool services to call there and no longer at Stafford.
Exciting
Voyagers do seem really nice I like the satisfying sounds on it tho like the sound of a microwave when the doors are unlocked 😂😂😂
First to watch a first class video
I went on a voyager to Birmingham International with my school, the journey its self is fine but the train was pretty crowded but when i came back with 390 (11 cars) it was way more spacious than the voyager
TREIN AVANTI GROUP ,ACQUISIDED FROM ITALY, ITALIAN RAILS PROPRIETARY
The lighting looks considerably better on Avanti Voyagers than XC ones which still are identical to how they were made back in 2002! I suspect if XC installed LED lighting it would just show up the two decades of accumulated filth
My regular train is a cross-country voyager, it’s always super packed, terrible ventilation and on the occasion that I get a seat, it’s always got terrible leg-room! I definitely prefer 800’s
These actually tilt? I heard that the tilting mechanism had been disabled.
Yep, the Avanti ones have always tilted. It's the Cross Country ones which have had their tilt mechanism disabled.
and grand central@@manufan2007
I'd love if you would cover the London Glasgow Avanti service
Nice review. I also do train reviews in Belgium.
First train cancelled, then next half size and only paid for food! Poor in first class, presumably dire in second class with the passengers for 16 carriages packed into four.
The 6 cylinder Cummins diesel engines sound great from the inside. Quite loud however, on the inside. A shame they are getting rid of the tilt trains. My guess is that was part of the overall plan for HS2 to effectively take over from WCML and certain elements of the ECML from the East Mids and onwards (digital signalling playing its part on the ECML.) Now those plans are thrown up into the air and despite some improvements to the line, 110mph restrictions on the Hitachis will remain in place in many areas.
The plan is to gain significantly more capacity per train, electrify most of the services, and implement targeted upgrades which allow an improved MU speed profile. The time difference between the tilting units and the new units will be very minor (I heard less than 5 minutes), and that I believe is partly due to additional stops being added
When The Class 221s Leave Avanti West Coast They'll Transfer To Cross Country and Their Sister Company Grand Central
I want u to cover the Glasgow voyager thx
They should of made them 7 coaches
222s exist for that
@@ttvvideos2050 but 3 of the coaches are first class 🫠
@@spottymaxy1628 And
@ttvvideos2050 what do you think? There is no need for that many coaches dedicated to first class. And anyways, what's your point? The 221s operate on Avanti, the 222s don't. It's completely irrelevant, and you only mentioned it because they're a part of the same family
@@spottymaxy1628 well question the toc who allocated 3 coaches to first class not me
try grand central's voyagers next!
They won’t be any different to AWC’s ones yet I wouldn’t have thought
yeah, theyre no different@@gtomo3808
I honestly think the Avanmti Voyagers look nicer than the CrossCountry ones. :)
35% acquisided from Italian rails group....AVANTI GROUP IS ITALIAN
Amazing video, I my self love the voyagers however I believe that cross country have just ruined them (I've been on them before) I also think avanti deliberately delay these trains just for them to get hate.
what would the point be in doing that?
@@bus3s for them to become hated even more to then have more people like the class 801s
Cant wait until the class 805s come into service!
Yeah can't wait for longer journeys
@@Trainman10715 it will be relatively the same amount of time.
@@OnTheRailwayOfficial no itll be more, as they will run at a lower speed
@@user-qn3cn3wc3k yeah theyll run at 110 for the majority of the journey. capable or not, this is slower than the voyagers which did 125 for the majority of their journey
@Trainman10715 The line is being remapped for these train so they will be able to do 125 for the majority.
Why did the police stop you from filming?
There's a potential for people filming for hostile reconnaissance (eg filming locations of cctv cameras and security details for use in a potential attack). Staff and BTP are trained to look out for this and to challenge people if spotted. Usually if you are polite and explain what and why you are filming they will be ok with letting you continue. Back in my station management days we used to encourage people filming on the station to sign in as a visitor so that the staff were aware that people might be on platform ends and stuff like that.
Doesn't feel like first class. I would rather take the one from Euston to Fort Williams
If you pay for First class and there is no catering service you should receive a rebate....
If you knew what I KNOW about the new Hitachi fleet which is supposed to be heading your way, you would urgently petition the management to delay the onset of these abortions until all the myriad problems have been cleared.
Are you involved in the rail industry or something? From what I've read the newer units incorporate improvements over the earlier units to solve most of the problems
I do not understand the police thing. Britain isn’t a dictatorship. The location of hardy of military importance. And honestly if someone was going to film for something nasty I’m sure they’d do it more discreetly!
I dont think a train travelling at this speed is a HST. 125 mph is peanuts compared to elsewhere in the world.
High speed train = 125mph/200kmh +, Very high speed train = 155mph/250kmh+.
Still classed as a high speed train, just not a very high one. Hope that clarifies!
they class high speed as above 100mph
Actually there is not a lot of luggage space on these so when people have large cases in standard it is almost unbearably cramped. Forget about trying to get to the loo on such occasions. And first class with zero free food is so not worth it.
125mph is nothing these days. We're light years behind Europe.
The Voyager Trains in general are OK it's just a shame about the crap company that runs them on the West Coast Mainline.
Interesting American pronunciation of the word ``attributed`` 🤔
The thing with the police, your in a public space and have the right to film whatever you want. So you should of just carried in filming.
Railway stations are private property you 🤡
Avanti west coast 221s don't actually tilt
Not thrilled that Avanti are replacing voyagers with the hitachi, the hitachi is not well suited to be a long distance intercity train. Voyager 221 is much better.
How can you say that if the trains arent even in service yet 😂😂. Absolute troll...
@@OnTheRailwayOfficialbecause we've seen how bad they are on all the long distance routes they already operate, try thinking every once in a while
@Trainman10715 I wouldn't call them bad at all. The ride is very smooth, and the toilets don't smell lmao. My only complaint is the seats are slightly firm which aren't even to do with the actual train anyway.
@@OnTheRailwayOfficial well theyre awful, the ride is infact terrible, no idea where you got that they have a smooth ride, evidently youve never had to ride one over the cotswolds line. the toilets havent had a smell on voyagers since the issue was fixed about 15 years ago. and at least the voyagers are reliable, have a decent interior layout and make an attempt at supressing the engine noise
@@OnTheRailwayOfficial they are in service, with other operators and the seats are not good
hardly a "troll" just for criticising a train that many others have also criticised
One hour late.
You pay for a 1st class service but they apologise for their lsck of staff and think thats ok? Id want a,part refund but expect they rely on the word "complimentary" for the meal.
And dont get me started on running diesel from Crewe to Euston (and back no doubt).......
Awful trains that often smell of a toilet
I haven't been on the WCML since the Class 43s were scrapped and replaced by out-dated Japanese rubbish, can't-call-them-trains.
Interesting that the government allows Hitachi to sell here, while they break WTO rules by keeping their rail network closed completely to foreign competition. How come you NEVER talk about the socio-economic-political aspects?
hsts were scrapped on the wcml in the early 2000s and replaced with voyagers and pendolinos, neither of which are japaneese
Some of your pronunciations are ridiculous
Eg Bombaardeea is how you pronounce Bombardier not Bombadeer
You know what’s even more ridiculous? You commenting this on a video I made almost a year ago… 🙃
They are of italian proprietary AVANTI GROUP, also very regional lines in England. Italy rails group has acquisided in greece,germany, HSR IN SPAIN,The paris Milan...trenitalia rails group leadership in Europe...not finance for rich,UK popolaction is very poor, simit to Sicily