A Homosexual Viking Grave? - Lejre Revisited | UiO Student Conference November 2023 + Q&A
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- Опубликовано: 13 фев 2024
- NOTE: there are some issues with the sound in the beginning as the microphone adjusts. These cease after around 02:00.
Mags Knepper of the University of Iceland and the University of Oslo presents "A-HEAD of it's time: Revisiting the Lejre Burial" at the Pre-Christian Religions of the North Conference, hosted in Oslo on the 10th of November 2023.
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Mags’ research interests are vast and heavily interdisciplinary, encompassing work in the fields of art history, archaeology, anthropology, classics, gender studies, and material history, originating in a primary interest in Ancient Greek archaeology and architectural history. Their current topics of research include concepts of gender (and sexuality) in Norse culture, as well as the lives of disabled people in the Viking Age. Mags’ methods prioritise separating Viking Age Norse culture from the Christianised worldviews of previous scholarship to access Norse self-image on their own terms. The archaeology of domestic life in the Viking Age, and cultural variation across Scandinavia also contribute greatly to their interests and research strategies, as does existing sociological theory on gender, sexuality, and class structures in Norse society.
See other videos from this year's Student Conference on Pre-Christian Religion here:
How Did Norse Pagans See The World? - Tom Kaye:
• How Did Norse Pagans S...
See videos from the previous Student Conference on Pre-Christian Religion here:
The frenzied warbands of Odin - Tom Kaye:
• The Cult of Odin: Ecst...
An Introduction to Pre-Christian Frisian Religion - Hilbert Vinkenoog:
• Pre-Christian Paganism...
An Analysis of the Viking's Paganism - Jonathan Fischler:
• Pagan Themes in The Vi...
Music Used:
Impact Allegratto - Kevin MacLeod
The Pyre - Kevin MacLeod
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#vikings #lgbt #history
NOTE: there are some issues with the sound in the beginning as the microphone adjusts. These cease after around 02:00.
Would there be any evidence of something like a man's murderer being executed and placed in his way as a means of appeasing the spirit of the murdered man? It just struck me as a layman as a possible explanation if one man was executed and given no grave goods and the other had grave goods but only modest ones.
Well, the sound quality even after that is not that great ... I find it is unnecessary hard to follow a lecture due to poor sound quality (distant microphone and some weird digital compression).
Only one had grave goods?
I think the original theory that the other guy is a Thrall is still more likely. I understand that most were buried with a female Thralls, but a person with crippled feet might prefer a big guy to carry them around.
who wouldn't wanna be carried around by a big hurly man hm?
Hello Hilbert. I was reminded of two things.
1 The way slaves were seen in the film Spartacus came to mind. I know there are cultural differences, but pre Christian and slave societies were around until not long ago, elsewhere from Europe. People and trade and human nature are, it could be argued, more alike than some try to make out.
2. My gran left school and started work aged twelve. She was, as in some cultures to this day, seen like a grown up. My grandad joined up to go to WW1 soon after, aged 14. Our modern ideas of adult are modern and we should not think they applied in the past in the same way.
This was interesting and thought provoking.
That is actually interesting, even more if we take on account that a thrall was "bellow" the free people and one could accend or decend in the ladder of viking society, so the love between a free person and a thrall could be something like loving a sword, the thrall could be just an object to the master, as it was in many cultures.
Another possibility is the kind of love know as agape, maybe the slave loved it's master for being good to him and knowing he wouldnt be able to walk in the after life to fend for himself he accepted to go with him to care for him as the master did to him in life.
This is fascinating! Thanks!!
The sound was difficult, not just when It cut out. I understood the questions clearly, but I only got about a third of what the speaker was saying. Echo?
Interesting. As a layperson the assumption would be that the bigger beheaded person was a slave, and put there to carry around the crippled person in the "afterlife". But then the question is, why is the bigger person on top of the crippled person? Or is that a modern interpretation that the dominant person would be on top of the non-dominant person? Maybe they did it the other way around in ancient times?
I am amazed that there isnt any rude comments about the name of the speaker and the subject- the jokes is very very obvious in Danish (but I am too polite to translate)
I'm Swedish and I don't know what the joke would be. In English a knapper is someone who makes tools out of flint. Which doesn't sound very funny. Other than that I got nothing. So it must be Danish only.
Do you think the name of the area is linked to the word for clay?
Lejre in Danish means "camps, settlements". It has been a royal settlement since the 4 hundreds.
In the sagas it is refereed to as Hleiðargarðr, from which the modern name Lejre descends
If you're thinking of lera, it seems lejre is more läger instead.
Can you do a video on the "valknut" symbol seen at the start of this video?
Identical twins perhaps?
That audio kept cutting off throughout the video.
Otherwise an interesting idea.
It probably had ritual significance.
Thank you for this piece ; mucho appreciation
I'm waiting for the research showing some petrified people in Pompeii were also very gay. then there are the people chained together on the muslim galleys in the Mediterranean. so many men in close contact... the gay was high. and the people butchered on the altars of Aztec gods... what about the research into their gay?
Thanks for the upload and triggering all the snowflakes
Amazing content, ignore those bastards that are commenting bad things
lol, sure it is.
This was interesting
i know this stuff is hard to avoid in Norwegian universities
Vikings?
Nice. I’ve heard about this.
Great content! Also love the angry homophobes in the comments 😂 ancient societies were far more open to diverse gender identities and sexuality than modern societies on average.
Lol yes it's so funny. 😄
😭the imagination runs wild
they absolutely were not more open.
>one key example of a homosexual viking
>its Danish
💀
😆😆😆😆😆
The real question is:
Was this gay viking a top or a bottom?
Show proof he was even gay, besides your woke fan fiction
@@watch-Dominion-2018 Define "woke"
@@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation not knowing basic biology
I don't know why you guys pretend like it's some hard-to-define word and asking for a definition is some "gotcha". Being "w0ke" is being overly concerned with the ideas core to int3rs3ctionality, such as rac3, g3nder, f3minism, etc. But, it's a stupid point to debate in the first place, because almost everyone intuitively knows what being woke refers to. And you do as well, but you have to pretend that you're clueless for the sake of the argument. @@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation
obviously top
Awesome. Brilliant content. Spot on. Well said.
Which parts?
👍
how would you know he is a gay guy ?
Current year
In archaeology it's of course very difficult to ever "know" for sure - the best we can do is provide hypotheses and see which one best fits the situation. The argument presented here is that similar graves are found with female-male burial so perhaps such a male-male burial would also suggest some form of relationship between the two buried individuals. Of course it is impossible to know for certain. Homosexual individuals existed in the past as they do today, and that may be behind what we see in Lejre, or it may be something completely different.
@@historywithhilbert146 male to male does not suggest that they were a gay couple unless you tested the dna to make sure that they are either father and son or some kind of relative.
if more than one male has died they may use the same burial for both occupants of the dead to be used .
for example in civil wars many of the dead were placed together
does not mean that they were gay
to surmise is not a fact .
But if more than one male is in the grave does not mean they were a couple .
so surmising is not fact .
you can only claim than more than one male was buried together .
In England where Vikings invaded and were killed they were thrown in burials of more than one to a grave or many just thrown and covered.
no proof they were gay.
@@XENONEOMORPH1979 If it were a man and a woman buried together, nobody would bat an eyelid at concluding they were a couple. But when it's two men together, suddenly people have to come up with loads of other possible explanations because they want to pretend gay people don't exist.
@@e.d.m3076 Many such cases!
Thank goodness the audio is appalling because this isn't worth listening to.
WTF is ‘Han’?
another woke libstorian that was unfortunately recommended randomly to me by watching actual well-reseached and presented historical content makers that does not view things with the perspective of mental illness
another channel to avoid
You sound bothered.
Metal illness, you mean homophobia and/or misogyny?
"mental illness"
said much about the commenter
Thank you for your work!
I am having a blast reading the comments.
Lol, how sad person you have to be to be threatened by a bit of science. Boohoo my masculinity is melting into a puddle of toxic sludge 🤣🤣🤣
I must protect my fantasy of the straight, binary, white dudes of the past.
What science?
@@watch-Dominion-2018 student conferences, compiling data from existing publications and sharing ideas are an important part of science. The point is not even about whether the speaker's ideas are correct but about the process of sharing and discussing the ideas. And sometimes the new ideas are really good and worth further studies.
Lol true, so many homophobic loony snowflakes in the comments it's funny. 😄
I replied to this but RUclips deleted it. I agree it's very funny. 😄
@@marcinsikocinski4661 no
What garbage...
When did you become so kiked my guy?
Yeah, no.
What??? GRAVES can be homosexual now??? Well I never...
Ooh Laa Laa 😳
Yeah, I am not particularly interested in pseudo-history from ideologues who feel that anyone that doesn't fit the typical way things were done in the past must mean they were gay, trans, or whatever else such institutions decide to come up with. By which I mean that, rather than consult the sources of people at the time, and scrutinize them for bias. You instead push your ideas and beliefs onto history and frame it through an ideological lens to justify your modern stance.
The Metatron has already done a series of videos on this very topic, and has already stated that many of our modern ideas of what and who such people are cannot be used to judged the past, and even sources that may line up with your beliefs may either be fabricated by historians to degrade people they didn't like or to give their version of history more drama. (The greatest known case being Achilles, where the original source never mentions him having relations with men, while another source that came later does)
You've lost a subscriber.
I think you missed the point being made in the lecture judging by this response. There is no "they MUST be gay, trans or whatever" - this is one hypothesis being put forward which you may or may not agree with. In archaeology, different hypotheses for what we find are put forward all the time. As you can see from the comments there are many ways to interpret what we find here and I actively encourage people to argue for or against whichever hypothesis they find strongest given the evidence.
You asked if the speaker has not consulted "the sources of the time" - what sources would they be? The Norse Handbook for burying the dead? No such exists. We have some later references (from a more distant and Christianised perspective) and a few external sources describing burial but none from the people who actually buried these people. What does that mean? We have to come with hypotheses for why things were done a certain way.
A cursory glance at Norse burial practice will show that there is no typical burial - variation is the key word. I'd be happy to send through some literature on the subject if you're unfamiliar with it.
A word of warning - it's weird. People are buried together, some alone, some with animals. People are beheaded, horses were run until they were lathered in sweat and then ripped to pieces. Chickens were beheaded and thrown into burials. Some burials were reopened after being sealed and had weapons scattered throughout them, others had their entrances nailed shut as if the dead would come out of them again. All of this, and the bit you can't understand is that one burial MIGHT PERHAPS have had two men in it who had some form of extra-platonic relationship?
I'm afraid if you can't at least entertain views different to your own, even if you decide the evidence points to a different conclusion, archaeology Viking burials is not for you.
@@historywithhilbert146This is still ridicules.
"push your ideas and beliefs onto history and frame it through an ideological lens"
now that's an unexpected self-own ngl
@@historywithhilbert146 I think you should resend and pin your reply at the top of comment section. That will save a lot of effort.
@@tym7267 Funny you should say that. Give me *real* evidence and I would concede. For, as much as I may disagree with Hilbert on this one, at least he was respectful for the most part, and correctly stated what this was: A theory. Or, rather, a theory using language which may have had meanings in past we can't understand, and putting an ideological twist on it. As I said, I have no care for such things, and my comment was not on attack on Hilbert himself, but rather my lamenting the fact that he decided to put such a thing up without giving a neutral view as he usually does.
lol all those homophobes in the comment section
Native Americans use the words "two spirit", to describe people like this. Why wouldn't it be similar for Scandinavians? Both peoples have similar practices and ideas, long before Xtianity.
2 spirit is a completely modern invention, which was made up in 1990.
Edit : on a side note what gives you the impression Native Americans had a shared culture? North America was made up of hundreds of tribes, each with their own culture. Sounds like you're racist and see all native Americans as a homogenous group.
they did have words for them. they werent the kind words, though.
Who cares
She is a very cute girl
A very ambitious young woman
Short answer: no stop queer washing history 😂