Fire Warriors in Codex T'au Empire - How Strong are Strike Teams and Breacher Teams?
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- Опубликовано: 21 июн 2024
- Let's talk Tau with a few thoughts on Strike and Breacher teams in 40K...
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0:00 Intro
0:42 The Models + Lore
2:34 Base Profile
3:43 Strike Team
7:44 Breacher Team
9:01 Strengths and Weaknesses
10:14 Unit Support
11:44 Transports
13:42 Leaders
16:11 Breacher Damage Output
17:51 Mont'ka
20:19 Kauyon
22:17 Overall Thoughts
25:10 Outro 
Игры
Every time I watch a Tau vid. When someone says the greater good. All I can think of is Hotfuzz, and Enemies of the Tau Empire. Having a series of mass unfortunate accidents.
Oh shut it
So the Kill Team box will have Fire Warriors vs the annoying living statue.
?
Traffic collisions.
For the greater good!
Breachers are so freaken good, it feels so satisfying popping them out of a devilfish and shooting a deadly volley at something on an objective
The Cadre Fireblade really likes those double gun drones, since they can just fish for the -3 AP shots with twin linked.
Holy shit never thought of it applying to those as well
Does his ability transfer to the drones? It looks like its only for his own ranged attacks on a critical hit
@@Chablar89 Yes, drones confer their weapon profile to the host model, so the drones 'attached' to the Fireblade also have his ability.
@@GamerzMedia yeah I understand now. So it applies to his own drones, but not any brought by any fire warriors he's leading?
Yeah@@Chablar89
Hey auspex, can you do a video about your favorite armies and lists or anything you enjoy? You've done enough work for us to take a break or a video for yourself, man
As a necron player nothing is scarier than a good tau player. Crisis suits are the scariest ones but breachers are a close second. The devil fish comes up drops off the breachers and will blast most things. For 90 points they can deal damage way above their own costs.
205 points for a Cadre Breacherfish bomb.
But they only get to shoot once. Because they die immediately after.
@@TwitchyMofothey are similar to bomb acolytes GSC
You should fear more Skyray Gunship, Sun Shark Bomber and Tiger Shark. They are finally cheap enough to compete against other things.
@@Kintizentiger shark and sun shark aren't really worth their points in my opinion but skyrays on the other hand are great
Aun'Auspex posted a new video, I click.
Aun'spex Tac'tic's
Sleep: Am I joke to you Auspex?
Auspex: Yes, now hush before I make a video on you too.
Marker drone is useless on these squads as the gun drone has assault and thus also gives the option to advance and mark.
17:28. Sucks being a Terminator these days lmao.
It's ok he'll be back. As a Dreadnought.
His chart didn't match at all what he was saying. He said only 1 Terminator without fire blade and 3 with.
@@TwitchyMofo That is because they would be doing 5 wounds, which is only enough to take out 1 Terminator Model(and leaving a second model on 1 wound). Adding the Fireblade would increase the expected damage of the Breachers by 50%(7-8 wounds) and then we have the damage of the fireblade itself(3 shots from the rifle with Dam2, 6 shots from drones with Dam1) to reach a total average of 9 wounds, which is 3 Terminator models.
@@fendelphi oh I thought he was counting models, not wounds. Thanks
Today I shot at a squad of those Marines that can shoot back with the plasma guns and killed 9, while guided, in montka, and had sustained one, and with a fireblade. I thought rolled pretty ok too.
....if it's worth killing, it's worth killing well
I love my firewarriors but the one thing they lack is a proper support weapon. The shitty little turret is interesting, but ultimately pretty inconsequential. Pathfinders can take rail rifles, why can't a strike team bring 1 or 2?
Because they are the Strike Team, not the Pathfinders? What I mean is, they have different roles within the army. The Pathfinders get the high-tech offensive gear, while the Strike Team gets the more defensive stuff.
The Strike Team has better overall durability due to the Guardian Drone, and they are cheaper. And now they provide a -1 to hit debuff when hitting an infantry unit(which can be achieved by your Indirect turret btw). Pretty good for 80 pts.
And of course, it is due to balance. If we could get a few Rail Rifles in a Strike Team, then add a Cadre Fireblade, they would need to cost much more than 120 pts for the deal.
The 10" range on the pulse blasters and 20" range on pulse carbines are a real oddity. The 30" range on the pulse rifles is at least still a multiple of 6" even if one of the less used ones.
Love the vid man. Going second. Devil fish breacher fire blade, Mont’ka Aggressive Mobility Focus Fire Guided by stealth = 30 shots re-rolling 1s on hits and wounds (+full rerolls on wounds if on objective) with lethals at -2 ap on tanks is a great way to lay dmg down. + because u get a cp every turn you will always have 1 cp to to counter strat with full hit re-rolls or use tetras. They hit on 2’s when guided so re-rolling 1s even is huge. But you can fish for the 6’s with full rerolls on hits. Anyway take it easy.
Can you add a full comparison between these 2 and Pathfinders ?
I don't care if they're good or not (but it does seem like they're quite good, which is a bonus!), the Fire Warriors are iconic to Tau to me and I don't think I'll ever run a list that doesn't have at least one unit with the long pulse rifles. Having them work as a bodyguard for an Ethereal on the backline to generate CP and hold an objective seems perfect, and the hell Breachers can unleash out of a Devilfish sounds like great fun! Honestly, this one video makes me glad I grabbed the old Tau Combat Patrol so I can combine it with the upcoming new Combat Patrol, because almost every unit mentioned in this video is in one of those boxes and it just seems like a perfectly effective and fun way to run a Tau army for me!
Love the ps2 game reference. That game got my into tau and 40k as a whole. Started with tau and have something like 12k pts. Or at least per 9th pts. Lol. Im not sure what the breakdown is too. The sad part is about 1/4 is in a pile of shame. But that game was so fun. Wish we could get a remake. Lol or a new tau one. Maybe give us battlesuits!?!?
For the greater good!!!
Looking to get into warhammer and I really like the lore and aesthetics of the Tau. Do people really hate playing against the Tau or is that changed/a bad faith opinion? Love the video breakdown!
No Kroot? They become a Battleline. From the BR i have watched the Kroot Hunting Party, is definitely a strong detachment.
They are a strong against Guard. They are decent again Death Guard. They are extremely good against Thousand Son, by controlling the table. They also do good overwhelming Custodes.
Those Canivores 40 shot volleys with rerolls are no joke.
Their melee is the only luckluster part.
This is a video about Breachers, so Kroot probably won't be mentioned (haven't watched yet, can't confirm my theory, and I do admit its a bit of a stretch)
Im making a rail weapon list for tau, am I missing anything? 9 broadsides with heavy railrifles, 3 squads of pathfinders with railrifles, 3 tidewell gunrigs , 3 hammerhead gunships,
Aircraft can have railguns (Barracuda and Tigersharks)
@user-hf6vf5gc5n That was most helpful. Thank you for your contribution.
Was that a typo on damage chart or you misspoke? I think you said 3 terminators but the chart says 9. 9 seems too high.
I think the chart is number of wounds, so 9 wounds is 3 terminators.
I'm LITERALLY putting together a 500 point list of breachers right now. Let's see how i'll do
Ooh! Do a video on the criminally underused Tidewall defense system!
What would be the point of that? It is such an inferior choice compared to everything else the Tau has to offer.
Every time you would consider picking a Tidewall(of any kind), just take a Devilfish instead. It is cheaper, provide much more utility and mobility, and has overall better firepower and durability for the point investment.
Tidewalls require your battleplan to be formed around their use, to make them useful, instead of the other way around.
@@fendelphiyou're incorrect, the shieldline can hard counter melee deepstrike units since it's a transport. Good for holding home objective and potentially nailing down a midfield objective.
Edit:5++ is superior to the fish. And for 20 pts it becomes 15 wounds.
@@jddj6747 You cant hold home objective(or the midfield), since it has 0 OC. The Devilfish has an OC of 2, so it can actually hold objectives.
5++ is mostly irrelevant, except against AP-4 or better(so mostly Melta weaponry). AP-2 or AP-3 attacks(like Las Cannons and similar) will not force the Invulnerable save if you are already in cover(3+ save combined with Cover means that even AP-3 is still a 5+ save). And you should get the benefit of cover, roughly 90% of the time.
Things like Krak Missiles and Auto Cannons(S9), and even Overcharged Plasma(Strength8) can easily damage Tidewalls due to their T8 stat, and you will rarely get the benefit of your Invulnerable save against them, as they are all AP-3 or less.
Melee is slightly different(as there is no cover bonus), but there are not many things with AP-3 in melee, and the few that have it will typically chew through your T8 very fast, even with a 5++.
So compared to a 75 pts Devilfish, the 85 pts Tidewall Shieldline is overall much easier to take down, as it only has 10 Wounds and T8 compared to 13 Wounds and T9, in addition to being a slower target.
If you upgrade it with more wounds(for a total of 105 pts), it becomes an even bigger target, and it becomes much harder to move around the board due to the odd shape.
You now have roughly 10% more durability compared to the Devilfish, but you are paying about 35% extra for it, and you have no weaponry and is still slow.
At best, it can be used as a mobile roadblock that your opponent has to chew through, but you need to be able to get it into such an advantageous position in the first place and give your opponent a reason to deal with it.
And, the Devilfish still does the roadblock thing better, since it is a roadblock that can quickly get into the ideal position when you need to AND shoot at the enemy with a decent amount of firepower.
Here’s the video title “why the tidewall is abysmal dogshit”
@@fendelphi just bring both fish and wall. I did and went 2:1 at a tournament. Only lost to chaos knights armiger spam.
hitting on 3s is not worth wasting a guiding on a breacher team vs guiding either your bigger suits like the ghostkeel or your crisis suits etc the breacher teaams are your OC holders and you will most of the time get a full re roll to wound due to being on objectives, theyre very good
Not sure I agree as you're throwing a lot of dice. Stealth Team giving you rerolls of 1s to hits and wounds is going to help if you are blasting a tough unit. The thing to watch with them would be using guide poorly with them and overkilling stuff. I'm not sure they're OC holders either as they're too good at blasting stuff. Personally I'd look at them to blast something and some Kroot to seize the objective. The unit would be very poorly at best and that would help the Kroot in HTH if you needed them to charge in. Kroot have sticky as well which means you can move on. Then use the Devilfish to move them somewhere else to blast something else. You'll get the most out of them in the games they can move about blasting multiple units and they're safer in their taxi while they're in it.
That ps2 game is why I'm a tau player
currently running a list with 30 breachers, 3 cadres all in devilfish. These guys are just far to effective to not take the full amount you can get with cadre fireblades, especially when they cost so little for such insane punch-up power. Considering any markerlight support makes their AP1 hurt a lot more than people are used to, they just hose things down and pulling your opponent onto objectives is such a big deal...and what are they going to do? Not score primary? Could make some opponents second guess moving onto objectives as taking the crack-back from breachers when standing on objectives is just outright madness.
Imo Kauyon is just not worth it in any sense anymore, waiting for turn 3 to get your damage dealing online is just not good and even then, it doesn't help punching up that much as since you lack lethal hits, you can't be assured the damage output being at max with a target on an objective (something that Mont'Ka allows you to keep online, a full re-roll to wound for doing what you want to do). Combat Embarkation is cute but ultimately you don't need to re-embark if you kill the target or maim it so much it can't really clear out enough breachers who can then fallback, get into a transport and get ready to work elsewhere (and with auto-advance 6, those boys can get places fast).
Another aspect is not to underestimate how annoying devilfish can be to clear. With 13 wounds, they are surprisingly hard to get rid of and due to fly keyword can't be tri-pointed easily and thus can just use their 12" movement to fly over charging enemies and sit on an objective behind them. Even act an great move-blockers later game. The Seeker missiles just help ensure you clear harder targets.
My current list has 30 breachers, 3 cadres and 3 devilfish backed by 3 riptides, 2 hammerheads, a starscythe team with coldstar commander, shadowsun and a lone etheral on hoverdisk with marker drone and shield drone and 3 squads of stealth teams (because they are imo straight up auto-include 3 for 180 points).
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Tldr:
Strike Teams are lacklustre and you won't really see them. Breachers are really scary and the reason you don't see Strike Teams.
still would like to see an infantry plasma option. Firesight marksman could use a swap for a light battlesuit similar to stealthsuit... Just saying
They should just revamp it in plastic and make the drones have railguns. Sadly, Codex is already out so that won't happen.
The Pathfinder has something like that.
@@Kingofdragons117 This. The Pathfinders have the option to take what is essentially 3 30" range Cyclic Ion Blasters(the Ion Rifles), for a total of 9 S8 AP-2 Dam2 shots(when overcharged).
Firesight Team should not have Rail Rifles. That would be the same firepower as the Pathfinder Rail Rifles(total of 3 shots at S10, AP-4, Dam3) but with Precision and Lone Operative, for just 70 pts. No way that would be balanced.
What it could use instead would be a change to its ability. It is not really worth guiding the unit 90% of the time, but it can be a great observer, as it has Markerlights and can sit out in the open due to Lone Op. So if its ability gave it a benefit when being the Observer, or just an ability that has nothing to do with the mechanic at all(like movement suppression), it might see more use.
Imagine if primaris intercessors would be comparable to this... all those filler models could be finally usefull.
Nah, we can't have anything nice, our elite intercessors need to be a bullshit, and useless
Just want to say wargaming portal aint got diddle in stock for astra militarum and I never get to order from there
Fire warriors look cool, and if my hunch is right once my guard are done theyre my next army, and therefore i will field several swuads of fire warriors
New printed points are 100 for strike team and 120 for breachers. And 100 for devilfish...
All of them are still good (strike team have improved with suppresion), but not that good ( combo devilfish+breachers is now 220 points).
The "newly printed" points was done probably 5-6 months ago. There have been points adjustments since then.
@@fendelphi mmm nope. Codex just released, with new points. I understand that if we are taking new codex datasheets and strike team having suppression…we should take new points too.
@@victorfdez7794 That is not how it went with the other releases. The only things that had actual point changes based on the codex, were the new datasheets.
In case of Tau, that would be the Kroot Rampagers, the new Kroot characters, and the 3 new datasheets for Crisis suits.
Everything else will be using the most recent point adjustments.
@@fendelphi as clear example, Farsight now has 8 instead of 6 wounds. Save 2+ instead of 3+. Invulnerable save of 4+ instead of 5+. New skill with free stratagem per turn…it would make no sense keep playing it as 90 points. New codex show it as 140 points.
@@victorfdez7794 And the datasheet is still "Commander Farsight", and so it uses the most recent points adjustments. Nothing has changed about that, and it is still used in official play at 90 pts AND the new stat profile. Remember, the codex was put into print sometime last year. However, the most recent point balancing was back in January(if I remember right).
On the other hand, the Sunforge Crisis Team is a new datasheet(along with the other Crisis team variants, and the new Kroot stuff), and use the codex point costs, because it is the most recent(and only) points cost for that datasheet.
Basically, the Codex points costs are already severely outdated, except for datasheets that did not exist before the codex release.
The same thing happened for the Adeptus Mechanicus when they got their codex. Old Datasheets used the most recent points(not from the codex) and the new datasheets used what was available in the codex(until they got updated online).
That being said, we will probably get some new points adjustments soon, and that will probably include some adjustments for the Tau as well.
Fire warriors are a non starter. They are still too expensive for a unit that doesn't deal damage. Kroot are by far the better objective holder.
Breachers are amazing though
Fire Warriors include both Strike Teams and Breacher Teams, but I get your point.
However, I disagree. They both have their strengths. Breachers are more commonly used and have a lot of offensive punch, but usually requires a fairly big "care package"(Devilfish+Cadre Fireblade combo) due to their short range weaponry.
The Strike Team is not a bad unit against fodder(S5 and range 30" can give you a surprising amount of reach and lethality against such targets), and even against most transports, S5 is enough for reliable chip damage.
The debuff can help your other elements surviving the enemy turn. Giving a -1 to hit to both ranged and melee can, depending on the unit debuffed, be a 25-50% decrease in damage.
80 pts for a unit that is "a bit of a pain to deal with", that can easily hit your infantry and debuff them, is not a bad deal. They work fine without anything extra attached, and if they get focused down, the opponent has probably invested far more firepower than what the 80 pts are worth.
Kroot are not "better" at objective "holding", unless you go for the Kroot detachment. In the other 3 detachments, they have worse saves(5+ compared to 3+ in cover), and have far less firepower to stop any "cheap" units from contesting the point. They also have no indirect fire options.
They are, however, great for the sticky, meaning they can be a pain to deal with if left to their own devices.
yea the codex said everything gets nerfed except for ethereal, Firesights, piranhas And the tidewall fortifications. Granted the crisis suits became cheaper but I still see their Armory selection being reduced as a nerf. for those who care; Strike teams went from 80pts to 100 pts in codex and breachers go 90pts up to 120 pts. with all units i didn't list (excluding forge world legacy models) going up in pts at least by 5 pts. most went up by 10 or more.
Honestly don't know what we tau players did to Aggravate our GW gods but I apologies
Those costs make sense if you compare them to the Necron codex's battleline.
Strike team 100
Warriors 100
Strike team better firepower Warriors more durable.
Breachers 120
Immortals 140
Both access to synergistic heroes.
Immortals more durable with similar firepower. Costs more.
Those aren't the real points. The codex was printed ages ago, and we'll get a points update to bring them in line after it drops.
The general consensus is use the points in the field manual, and the points in the codex for any "new" units. This is because the codex was printed about 6 months ago and the points in the book were consistent at that time.
Sadly strike team is simply too bad. Breachers tho are a monster
First
damnit
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