Fools, Foreshadowing, and Fate - ASOIAF Theory
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm going over my theories as to importance of several fools in #asongoficeandfire. From Patchface to Jinglebell to the Moon Boy for all I know, there may be more to these fools than meets the eye...
Also, side note, this is more a bunch of mini-theories rather than one comprehensive one. I wanted to express that somewhere but couldn't come up with a catchy way to do so for the title.
Be sure to subscribe if you enjoyed this video! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? More #asoiaf content is on the way!
Thank you all for watching! I'll be back with more theories next week, in a collab video! Character art in this video is by TheMico! Art in the thumbnail is by tsundere-power on DeviantArt! www.deviantart.com/tsundere-p...
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Clever, clever fool
01:26 Archetypical Fools
02:48 Jinglebell
05:22 The Moon Boy
06:12 Ser Dontos Hollard
07:13 Butterbumps?
07:42 Patchface
09:25 Patchface's Visions
10:51 Death and the Sea
12:38 Conclusions 
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George uses fools to tell the readers cryptic riddles and i kinda love it cause everyone else just thinks they crazy
That’s how jesters and fools were used in real life. They bring up obvious opposing points that the king knows will be brought up by sensible people. When the people see the king berate the fool they know not to discuss such topics themselves.
@@markstuckless5039 that's interesting
@@luminousignesia372 Modern day Hollywood fills this role today.
except mushroom he's just there for a good time and a good story 😂
@@angryerika BELIEVE MUSHROOM!
I think Patchface is a water wight. I remember the first time I read the books, his character surprised the hell out of me. Trying to unpack his riddles really is quite fun and challenging.
Is a water wight a thing? I'd imagine there's only Ice and Fire wights given the Song, but this is an interesting take. But then there could also be a wight for every god, so patchface could be a wight of the Drowned God? And that begs the question, what would a wight of the Seven be? But even then there could only be wights for gods that have blood sacrifice, so just the old, drowned and red god. Very interesting.
@@exothermic1942 So my overall understanding was that the Gods are an attempt by men to explain away magic. There are many different types of magic but the two strongest schools are Fire and Ice. Different groups/cultures practice different forms. The Others have the strongest connection to Ice. Dragons and by extension Valyrians have the strongest connection to fire. A lot of this is fan theory it is interesting to look at the category of characters that have been "brought back" through some magical means or even to speculate that they have. So Beric Dondarrion could be considered a fire wight, Patchface could be considered a water wight (there's even a theory that Ser Davos drowned and was brought back as a water wight), I'm not sure how you would categorize The Mountain or Ser Robert Strong in the books, but he's definitely a wight of some kind.
@@exothermic1942 The Seven are a kind of religion with no actual magical power which is why the Maesters like them so much. They also give the characters who worship them the chance to worship different aspects which says something about their values and their state of mind- but I don't think the seven have any mystical powers.
Originally, I too thought Patches' "dancing shadows" riddle pertained to Melisandre. However, I noticed recently that Shireen notes he says that riddle all the time. So I'm inclined to believe this riddle is the most important of any Patches recites; and I don't know that Mel killing Cressen would warrant frequent repetition.
What would, though, is the impending threat of the Others- a subplot that becomes the central focus of Stannis' plot overall. Not only are the Others referred to as "shadows" (white shadows, cold shadows), but when Ser Waymar Royce fights one in the AGOT prologue, he challenges the shadow by saying, "let's dance". So Patches could be warning that the Others are on the move/coming to fight when he says "the shadows come to dance". And again, given the significance the Others eventually take on in Stannis' arc, it makes perfect sense for GRRM to foreshadow that by having Patches frequently sound the alarm.
I agree and have thought it was in reference to the white walkers as well. I think he is most likely a vessel for the drowned gods. However, R'hallor is definitely a possibility, as well as the old gods. The old gods would be most concerned of the three about the others. R'hallor refers to it as the long night, but they're looking for the prince that was promised. Can Blood Raven warg fools? He shouldn't bc that's taboo but we know it's possible. Pretty sure he's warging into Mormont's raven to relay messages/hints.
@@lyannatargaryen3223 I don't think Patchface could be part of R'hllor since Melisandre sees him surrounded by darkness and skulls, meaning he's under some more sinister influence. But knowing her, any non R'hllor is evil so that points toward the Drowned God or the Old gods. I think at this point, he's been broken by the Drowned God for long enough that when he went to Castle Black, away from the Drowned God's power, he was immediately taken over by the Old Gods' influence.
Patchface is genuinely terrifying, one of the most in the entire series
Melisandre usually gets visions wrong. When she sees patch face in the flame, she thinks he is an evil force with skulls and bones around him. She interprets it as patch face being evil, but it could very well be that he is used to win a battle and is actually good for possibly Stannis.
He maybe surrounded by death cus he warned everyone but no one listened to the FOOL.
Yes, the visions she gets are right but they're envisioned in such a way they're hard to interpret so she misunderstands them.
Sure, but Patchface has talked about “The deep” I think he will be used for a much bigger meaning than Stannis winning a battle
I think him being surrounded by skulls may symbolize that HE HIMSELF is dead and a wight of some kind. like Beric/Stoneheart
The role of the fool was to speak truth to authority and GRRM uses them tell truths to the reader, even if they are cryptic.
I’m enjoying the content you put out. Thanks.
It reminds me of Kassandra
Do people just say this? Speak truth to authority? In a system of absolute power, the truth is known amongst the elite; it is only in modern times where truth is hidden and lies told to the masses, precisely because hard power does not exist as much; you have to 'propagandize' the masses to keep your power
In a way, it is far easier than hard power, and less dangerous. Instead of having to use force to control people, you merely have to use words
You are talking about a literature thing, the Shakespearean fool, and claiming that is how fools behaved in real life
You could have talked about Owen the Oaf, too. He is not a courtly fool, but he does have a vision of Stannis coming to save the Wall from the wildlings.
Similar to that a young lady in Arianne’s preview chapters talks about how she dreamt the dragons were dancing, “and everywhere the dragons danced the people died” -Teora Toland
I'm a little confused by tying Patchface's visions to Valyria at 10:10. Under the sea fish have scales and seem to fly (they don't sink like people do), and no one wears hats because they would float (headgear that doesn't float would probably be called a helmet instead). The line from Clash is "flames burn GREEN and blue and black."
I would argue that the visions you cite are a combination of Patchface remembering his own experiences when Steffon's ship sunk and foreshadowing the Battle of the Blackwater, with green referring to wildfire and black to the Blackwater Rush itself.
I have always thought all forms of prophecy in the story is the same data stream that is being tapped in , in a variety of ways, some more efficient. So when Rhaegar dreams, or Mel looks into the flames, or Bran plugs into a tree they’re just interfacing with the same thing. It ties in to the Faceless Men concept of there not actually being a lot of gods but just one with a lot of names by the various peoples
I really love this concept, it makes the fact that certain events (like the Red Wedding) are foretold time and time again.
Wrong; there is no 'one god.' People are literally using magic, and they think that magic comes from gods when it is just a natural force of the world. Concluding that the 'gods' are just one god is absurd
@@pyropulseIXXI - You have sort of missed the point if you think that there ANY gods, at all, which was what I was saying in the first place. There is a magical system mechanic in the world that can be accessed a variety of ways. It's no different than exploring some aspect of physics in this world. The various means you approach it does not affect that it is just a force of nature that you are discovering from some angle. And like in the real world, that discovery of the force of nature is very often accompanied with localized dogma to help conceptualize everything. With respect... Think of it like people of 12th century Europe stumbling upon chemistry concepts. When you understand like 1% of it, it all just looks like magic of the god(s)
@@pyropulseIXXIwow, youre like GoT's version of an atheist. Down to telling people they're flat out wrong even though none of us know the actual answer
"Under the sea, the crows are white as Snow."
Doesn't this just foretell that Jon's soul will jump into Ghost? Thus making the Crow white. All the Stark children are wargs and Dance's prologue dumps a ton of lore about skinchangers and how their spirit can shoot off their bonded animals once they die.
When was this said again? Cause if it was on Dragonstone, especially before Blackwater, it could be foreshadowing for where Stannis would end up, where the Crows are led by Snow. Which would be particularly unexpected since Stannis is a Southron lord.
@@exothermic1942he says it while the Stannis camp is on the wall, just a little before Jon dies
@@memeology929 That definitely strengthens the theory.
Team Dragonstone really has the Best characters
Best (and one true) King
Ultimate Ride or die Queen
Greatest princess of the seven kingdoms
LOYAL hand of the King (and Best PoV of the book series) and his brave son
Red haired fire witch
Prophetic eldritch Fool
Ser Rolland Storm the Bastard of CHADsong (i know he appears like thrice in the whole story but i love everything he does)
That might be the first time I've seen someone have a positive opinion on Queen Selyse.
@@QuinnTheGM She is crazy. She is dangerous. But she is the ultimate Stannis Stan.
Like i don't think Even Lysa would go as far for Petyr as Selyse does for Stannis
Based gigachad W
@@Alduin_el_Compadre disgusting
Yeeees 100000%
Patchface is definitively my favorite fool, but this video also had me thinking off Shagwell the Fool from the Brave Companions.
In a way he facilitates some revelations too. When Jaime grabs a sword with his left and tries to escape his captors he just dodges him until Jaime's spirit breaks, in a way forcing Jaime to accept how diminished he has become through the loss of his hand. He also throws Brienne in the bear pit, once more spurning growth in Jaime.
I did have Shagwell included in an earlier version of this video! I eventually cut it down to the current number, it was a bit bloated originally.
7:42 Nah, we all know that the most important fool in the story is a guy who says “She’s ma qween” and “I don wannit”.
“There’s no time for any of this!”
The shadows passage could also refer to the Others which are described as pale shadows.
Interesting idea, I like it! I do think it’s definitely Mel given the context of the chapter though.
the shadows come to dance. the first thing the others do in the series is "dance" with waymar royce.
@@QuinnTheGM Except later Shireen states he says it constantly and won't stop and it scares her
@@QuinnTheGM Also the shadows come to stay. White walkers come to take over and stay aka long night
Another "Bear and Maiden Fair" could be Jorah and Dany since they are heading towards a reunion probably.
Slick horse reference with Tyrek, and congratulations on graduating
The art you use is always on point
i just love your theory videos Quinn. that’s it. Love.
Super cool subject to make a video on. I wish the courtesan's had more written about them, and I wonder what role and impact they could have if they were given more time in the story
It’s not Sunday morning without a video from you! I’ve been subscribed ever since you put a video out on the one true king Viserys the second!
Ha, those were the ancient times! Considering doing another video on a Targaryen king someday soon.
YESSSIR BEEN WATCHING FOR A PATCHFACE THEORY…. Thank you Quinn
Congrats on school 🎉😊
Omg I remember the live you did when you graduated I was happy to catch that one is was super happy and fun 🎉
Great video! Congrats on graduating!
Good video! Nice blend of analysis and theory
Glad you mentioned the Shakespeare stuff, I love the fool in king Lear as he’s so much smarter than everyone else. Have you heard LmL’s theories about patchface as a horned lord/Santa allegory? Highly recommend
I remember watching his videos on the subject years ago, I’ll have to refresh my memory someday soon!
Horned Serpent or the Last Son of Alcatraz?
LML?
@@maxolivermurray David Lightbringer aka Lucifer Means Lightbringer. Check out his long night moon meteor theories
Its worth noting "the bear and the maiden fair" could also apply to Jorah Mormont and Danny. Personally I like that idea better because no one ever refers to Breine as anything even remotely close to fair, its quite the opposite.
Melisandre's vision of Patchface with skulls and bloodly lips looks like the sigil or coat of arms of House Lonmouth.
Quinn, if you haven’t already, I would recommend reading “Vermis”. It’s a dark fantasy art book, posing as a retro video game guide. Huge dungeons and dragons vibes with a rich and hidden lore!
this is fire video buddy! congrats on the graduation!
Your videos are amazing!
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉
I always figured when Patchface said “the shadows come to dance” he was referring to the shadows that Mirri May Duur was dancing with in the tent before Jorah took Dani inside.
I will leave the most grieving wolf that could sing
Under the sea no one wears hats!
Under the sea No One wears hats?
Maybe he just means it doesn’t matter who’s a lord when you’re dead 🤷♂️
Great job
Was looking forward to this one brother
Congrats on graduating!
Patchfaces behavior reminds me of Mormont's raven, he could be controlled by Bloodraven too
It's possible,also because he is connected to the "Deep" and water. And many speculate that Euron,another character connected with the "Deep",was one of those apprentices of Bloodraven that didn't make it. So there is a connection between Bloodraven and these water-connected characters
I think jingle bell’s death is supposed to foreshadow the stallions own demise.
Good vid man
Great analysis. Audio sounded a bit off at times but maybe that was just me. Looking forward to more content 👍
Thank you! My mic was being weird during one of the Patchface sections, should be smoothed out for next week’s video.
Mushroom is definitely my favorite fool
That would be cool to have a story of a jester who breaks away or is from a ruined kingdom he was loyal to or mistreated at and becomes a great leader of a militia or group or even army and he hides this past from everyone and is seen as mysterious but displays jester like humor when he wants or jester like skills which they have. His army turns their back on him once they find out or something
Congrats on graduation
Mushroom got the juiciest tea in Westeros.☕️💯
Just you wait until Sunday’s video!
@@QuinnTheGM I look forward to seeing it!
LOUDER BUTTERBUMPS!!!
+1 comment just to help you a little. Love your videos!
Thanks for the disco song, it's pretty dope (also shout out to Jester Levore)
Open your heart to chaos!
@@QuinnTheGM I'm 2 episodes from finishing campaign 2 lol, such a coincidence
Patchface is terrifying. I love it.
I think the Patchface story is tied to Shireen's grey scale.
I talk about that in my greyscale video!
The theory about one of his visions being about the doom of Valyria is quite interesting. Although, what relevance a past ocurrence has at this point remains to be seen. Perharps he is sensing Euron coming back with a hoard of treasure from the Smoking Sea.
Question, could theon be classified as a fool in the dreadfortish kinda way??
face tats are always respectable
I really surprised that they couldn't find a valyrian bride. Lys, volantis and meletis all have pureblooded valyrians
Patchface is of course the coolest fool because of his lovecraftian influrnce, but butterbumps is the best technically. He is so skilled i am willing to believe he might be magically inclined aswell.
With Melisandre’s customary ability to misinterpret what she sees in the flames, her visions of Patchface might well be seeing him amongst the ruins of a battle. I’d suggest he survives an attack by the Others, or possibly even from a triumphant Bolton marching north to the Wall from Winterfell. Indeed taking Shireen into and then out of the water might be Patchface accompanying her across the Narrow Sea to be reunited with Justin Massey following Stannis’s defeat. Or does he turn out to be a traitor, allowing for a Bolton or Others victory? Who knows? Certainly not Melissandre, that’s fo sho.
No mention of the greatest fool of all, Mushroom?
👍
What is dead may never die, but rises again stronger and harder…
Patchface?
Who does the art? I cannot read that signature
Why didnt you include mushroom
More theory videos my good sir.
Birds with scales under the sea clearly means fish.... they both 'fly' through their respective medium. It 'snows up' because bubbles literally rise. Ash from a volcano doesn't 'rise up.'. it is shot out and falls back down. Bubbles rising in the sea never 'fall back down.'
Linking this to the doom of Valyria is a *massive* stretch
Y’all cannot forget arianna II in winds. That girl? That’s dreamer? She said the dragons would dance in Westeros and that when they danced, the people burned. Sooo… somehow the dragons are gonna fight dragons when daenrys comes. Check out winds or dm me if ya don’t know what I’m talking about
👍👍👍👍
if you need an image of a humanoid-shaped shadow dancing around you can use AI to generate that.
You left important Patchface information out of the video. He predicted the red wedding.
Wise Fools aren't Westerosi. They're Shakespearean!
Hi
Oh no, you incorporated literary analysis into a video about a piece of literature? How could you?
Patchface is creepy.
First
I don't like fools. Fools are scary.
It's just Moon Boy. No "the" also Dontos gives Sansa a hairnet not a necklace.
OMG, Quinn, I love your content, but can I give constructive criticism? Can we PLEASE not refer to GRRM as "gurm"? I mean, do what you like, but MAN that's a pet peeve for me. It sounds lazy and unflattering. Just an observation. Love and appreciate the content, though. Keep up the good work!