Hey guys! This episode of GBNF was made from suggestions from fans who emailed us demanding this show be covered on this series. If you want to make suggestions for future episodes of GBNF then e-mail GBNFSeries@gmail.com and maybe we’ll cover your show!
May I suggest Caprica, the 2010 spinoff of the Battlestar Galactica reboot for your next GBNF video. I feel like that show was also another very underrated high concept sci-fi series that was cancelled too early. Also I'm sure any Battlestar Galactica fans would love to see you guys do a retrospective on it, as it tells the story of the Twelve Colonies before their destruction at the hands of the Cylons.
Fox did right by Dollhouse. They moved it because they saw it wouldn’t pull the ratings to justify the Monday time slot. It was a failure even for Fridays. The fact it got a second half of a season and even a second season after the first 5 episodes did its best to bury the show is a miracle and Fox trying to pay for the mistakes of Firefly. The first exciting thing to actually move the plot was like the second half of episode 5. It took the 6th episode before it had a good episode. That’s rough. Also I enjoyed epitaph one when it originally aired (or released online). It was the best episode of season one and honestly gave show an actual end goal to aim towards which it needed badly. The second season was definitely rushed but if they had not wasted so much time in the first season and in the first couple of season 2 they could have properly paced the show. Two seasons was as much as the concept deserved. Fox should be given credit for pissing money away just to appease the nerds because that show was never close to a financial success.
I feel like a couple of the criticisms here weren't entirely fair, namely that Dushku wasn't playing as varied a set of roles as some of the other cast, and that Echo's ability to recall past imprints seemingly came out of nowhere. The entire premise of the show was that Echo wasn't being wiped completely, despite the tech, but, rather, was developing her own gestalt personality made up of bits and pieces from all the imprints she'd experienced. So of course there's something of Echo behind each of the imprints she plays - that's the point. And if you recognise that - that there is an Echo personality behind the imprints, and that it has access to the skills and knowledge of past imprints - then the idea that she can develop to remember an entire imprint without needing the chair is just a natural progression - I remember that my reaction when they revealed it on the show was not "where did that come from?" but "finally! Of course she can do that!"
Agreed. I don’t know if that was the creative team’s intention, but it’s my favorite interpretation. I also like to imagine that having less varied imprints might have led to Echo developing her abilities. Most of her imprints were what another commenter called “adventure girl”, which isn’t that far off from Caroline. So maybe she got to slowly expand her ability and accommodate her imprints.
Loved the show when it aired in the UK, was gutted when it got cancelled. I remember the moment after the 'hunting' trip, when she is back as Echo, but she did the "shoulder to the wheel" motion/gesture
YES. This was my view as well. Whether or not it had anything to do with Dushku's potential limitations on her talent, Echo was an amalgam, just like Alpha. Being able to see the same person behind all those different roles was the point of her character.
Not just that: she was the main character. The audience needed to feel that on some level they were tuning in to watch the same person each week, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten invested
At least it was given a second season to end on a high note. Which is more than what we can say for Josh Whedon's other short lived masterpiece of a series.
It had some wonderful scenes eg Topher and the British woman getting high, and while not anywhere near as good as Firefly, the earlier seasons were pretty good. OTOH I dislike dystopias eg Fringe observer episodes (? Last season) , and I really disliked the left turn into full fledged (?post apocalyptic) dystopia at the end.
Tru was better was good from the start then got crazy better when Jason Priestley joined to try to undo everything she did, or even it out she gets to save someone he has someone pass to even it out..
@@petewillson205 and the second season made Tru and Jack characters more layered, blurring the lines who is the protagonist and who is the villain the show with second season had so much potential, shame it was canceled
Topher's character arc is among my all-time favourite side-characters on TV, up there with Steve Harrington. His journey was fascinating (and heartbreaking) to watch. Love this show! Great the way it is. Enver Gjokaj's talant blew my mind, he had no reason to be so scared whatsoever :D
Dollhouse was an amazing show -- thanks for doing this great video. I really enjoyed your focus on the acting chops of the cast: while it was certainly a heavy concept series, the amazing cast made it fun to watch episode after episode, even when Fox was messing with the scheduling and making it difficult to follow.
I’ve only ever seen her in Dollhouse, and she’s not good. Easily the weakest actor in the entire ensemble (including many guest actors). Guess she needed different material?
@@TheChancellor212 I would say that's more a result of how good everyone else was than her being weak. Enver and Dichen were just amazing. But as the lead of the show, that probably wasn't a good thing. But as the poster said, Eliza is so charismatic, I didn't care.
One thing I rarely hear about whedon is that he had an amazing instinct for casting. Every show he's done has had a great cast. Some became big stars, others were perfect in that one role and you never hear much of them again.
I watched Dollhouse on DVD at the time.(no TV). Your criticism of Eliza Dushku is what was said about Charlton Heston in the day, haha. The actors were terrific and the range of stories good. Thanks for the analysis!
This is my favorite of all Joss Whedon's TV series. Epitaph part 1 made me see the endgame that was planned for this series. I would have loved this series to have run 5 to 7 seasons with a future "epitaph" episode as the season finale every year building to the series final regular episode that leads into Epitaph part 1. Then have the series finale we got. The underlying story was massive rushed to set up the elements necessary for the finale to make sense. Whedon was plotting the long game but Fox couldn't see it. For a future installment may I suggest "Person of Interest". Another series playing the long game that was actually given the time to tell its story and evolve at its own pace.
I always figured that the second season rushed so many developments because they knew they weren't going to get a third season. They were cramming two or three seasons into one. Then Epitaph two sketched out about four more seasons worth of plot in a single episode, jumping ahead, but giving us a really good sense of what we'd missed (The way Echo reacts to Alpha for example: a few seconds of screen time shows us that these characters have been through entire arcs with each other) And I think it worked great. I wish they'd had 5 seasons, or seven, but if we weren't getting that then this was the next best thing. I've never seen a series manage to give such a good sense of closure despite being so clearly cancelled way too soon
My favorite story line was the one of Dr. Saunders. When all gets revealed I was truly shocked and it's so heartbreaking. And Amy Acker's performance was so strong, it's my favorite role of hers.
it was a really good series. I remember how angry I was when I found out they were canceling it. But at least the series got some kind of ending, unlike Firefly, which Fox threw directly into the trash.
I remembered watching this show around 2012 and liked it. Lots of plot twists and the characters are great. Somehow my favorite character on the show is Dichen Lachman. She also did great in Alter Carbon.
Studio Executives: _We want to shock the audience! Violate social norms! Make something offensive!_ Also Studio Executives: _Do all that_ *but don’t offend us or the viewer or any possible viewers!* 😂
Just to "Echo" what others have said already in the comments. Eliza's underlying character was Echo which was why she may not have seemed to come off as a different persona with each engagement. My take on it was she did a phenomenal job with each persona and definitely carried the show in her scenes. We just rewatched it after some years and I stand by it being one of my all-time favorite shows. My thoughts are exactly the same as yours with Tudyk. I searched him out to watch more of him after seeing him play Alpha. Though, I feel like he wasn't used enough and his character didn't get a solid ending. But that could be summed up as the show being rushed and not being able to develop him more. It's just a shame Fox ruined this opportunity.
I remember one of the things that bothered me so much about the ending was never finding out what happened to Alpha during the time-skip. Still drrlives me nuts now that I think back. 😅
I LOVED this show! I have the DVD version and I have watched it and watched it probably a half-dozen times. It was a crying shame that it was cancelled so soon by FOX! At least they managed to wrap it up well in the two-part finale which wasn't televised, as far as I know, but which is included in the DVD version. Thanks for making this video! I really enjoyed your analysis of the series!
LOVED Dollhouse. We got our rescue cat the same day as the finale aired. We named her Echo. Been so long since I watched it. Luckily, it's on Disney Plus for me to view (with Epitaph One in its proper place at the end of season 1)
It’s on Hulu too. I recently rewatched it there. My favorite whedon project, and I love all the little in jokes and nods for people who are fans of other whedon projects “I can kill you with my brain”
I watched this when it was on originally and loved it, but it was a little difficult to understand. Then I found out the FOX made them show the series out out order. If you watch in the right order it makes much more sense. Those Friday nights used to have this AND The Sarah Conner chronicles, which was awesome too. These two shows would be huge HITS on streaming now of they were new and given a chance. Great job, BTW, Viktor at Topher was one of the absolute best performances on this how. Man, I need to go back and watch all of these.
It quickly became obvious to me that the technology would cost far more than could be gained from selling the actives as one form of escort or another. I wanted to see what the company was really doing, how they expected to gain enough power to be worth the expense. Then, having seen the epilogue, I wanted to know how Echo screwed everything up.
Spot on about the cast being great, every one of those actors is one that if/when I see them in another show/film/game/work I immediately think "oh, awesome!" lol.
I don't think Echo was another version of Faith. Faith was raw sex and was someone needing to be cared for, which is why the Major could so easily corrupt her. Now Echo, she had periods of sexiness, while also being flirty. It's what guys like, if you think about it. She was to express everything a guy wants from a sexually appealing person, without any undesirable baggage. However, once you get into the 2nd season, Echo changes thanks to Alpha. It's my belief, but something that wasn't explored very well, that some people did very well in taking on many personalities and they could have the ability to tap into them. Alpha was just saddled with psychotic personalities, along with his own. That's why he seems more balanced in the final show. It's why Victor and Sierra were able to have such an intense relationship, even when wiped. Parts of their souls existed.
I really like Dollhouse as an idea but it felt rushed, which of course it was. I have wondered how much more they could have done with it had it been allowed to take its time and grow, and then introduced different aspects as the seasons went on. Imagine if they had done something similar to Person Of Interest, and just added layers after each season so the story evolved more. POI just started as a simple crime of the week and evolved into sci-fi and so much more. But I am not sure how Dollhouse would have worked over that many episodes without the big sci-fi hook right at the start.
new fan here. just wanted to thank you for this awesome content. recently watched the Firefly one, and now this. fantastic coverage and analyzation of worthwhile selections. can't wait to discover more of your stuff. keep going!
ok, I was hooked until you said that Eliza Dushku wasn't as talented as your other favorites... I have loved her acting since I seen her in "True Lies" so, I mean, to each their own, but I always loved her acting
No I said she’s a great actress I even cited Cit by the Sea an amazing performance it’s just her performance here on the show wasn’t as great as the other actors. I even said that I suspected this may have been network interference. But she’s an incredible actress I just feel like she’s been typecast
The Left Hand when Enver portrays Topher while Topher is in DC with Summer Glau is one of my favorite episodes of any show ever. Watching the two Tophers argue just never gets old. And the A plotline with Echo is good too. And did I mention Summer Glau? 10/10. No notes.
Wait - When Eliza Dushku said "moved to Hollywood at 17" she meant matured into more adult rolls. Because she was like 12, with a young Katherine Heigl (before Under Siege 2, My Father the Hero, and Grey's), in a movie called That Night. It starred Juliette Lewis and C. Thomas Howell. Plus wasn't she in True Lies... Sorry, I just 90's all over myself😕
Hi David, really enjoyed this and I love Dollhouse. One bit of advice though, as it does affect how much fans are willing to listen to any given show. You might want to give Jesse a primer or key on pronunciation of proper names involved, like Rossum.
Eliza has a distinctive lower and husky voice. While it's possible to change up speech patterns, accents, etc. (and she did), there's still a point where you're limited by your physiological instrument. I think a lot of people who were critical of her in this role were maybe caught up on vocal identification. IMO, she actually brought a lot to her different imprints. I wish we could have seen the original noir version of this show promised in the unaired pilot. Fox wanted to take a problematic premise and make it fun and sexy, which... doesn't really work. I still enjoyed the show, but it feels like there was a less self-confused and more intentional path for Dollhouse that we didn't get to see. Tru Calling... wanted to love it, but I can't. It's some of the most ham-fisted writing I've ever encountered. It's also ham-fisted in the way it's written. And in case you didn't pick up on it the first two times, the scripts are a ham-fisted mess. Do we feel stupid yet? Ham-fisted.They brought in Jane Espenson and Doris Egan as writers for Season 2 (who are great), but it was too late.
I think Dushku's performance _had_ to be essentially the same in every persona. She was the main character, and she carried the focus of nearly every episode. The audience needed a consistent sense of who Echo was so that we could bond with her and care about her. And we needed to have some sense of what we were going to see week to week. Within those limits, I think she got to explore a pretty big range It made sense in plot too. There was something different about Echo's brain chemistry, a lot like Alpha's. She was developing the ability to hold onto the memories that the Dollhouse thought they were wiping, even if they weren't consciously available until mid season two. Having a persistent base personality fits well with that
I loved this video. Dollhouse was a show I REALLY enjoyed. :) I think in season 2 you can really tell there was a lot of ideas for entire seasons that were crushed into a single episode. Like in season two there was a group of soldiers that all shared one mind. That could have been a season long big bad! But good show. good video essay. thank you
Also, coming from Firefly, you don't usually get a sense of Tudyk's physicality, so Alpha is especially shocking by contrast. He's tall and VERY strong, and bloody fast. Add in the ability to act as a vicious character that you never remotely suspected from Wash, and. Yeah all the streaming services put the "lost" ep in as the end of season 1. It was certainly out of nowhere, but I pretty much got "oh it's setting something up long term, cool" and yeah great episode.
I watched Dollhouse in the early 2010's and loved it. I had no idea Epitaph 1 wasn't part of the original airing and had watched it as the season 1 finale. It threw me for a loop but I was so intrigued by it. I was definitely confused when series 2 started with no acknowledgement of it.
I had watched the original airing, so hadn't seen Epitaph 1, but knew the finale hadn't been aired, so i got the dvd. when I finally watched Epitaph 1 it was a massive WTF moment. but i was all in. esp since it featured Felicia Day who i had loved on the guild around that time.
It was a great show IMO. It's unfortunate that it ended so soon. I doubt it would ever be revived, but if it did it would be cast by new young actors and probably be updated for the current times. And the tone would likely change as I don't think Josh Whedon would serve as executive producer.
Uhg. I was DEVASTATED when the show ended. It was JUST getting started after such a FANtastic 1st season! Jason Priestly was brilliant and the cast was incredible...including a then unknown Zack Galifianakis, in my favorite of all his roles to this day. He's a great actor, Tru Calling showed what he is capable of. PLEASE do a vid on it one day!!
I was confused and then you mentioned Jason Priestly. Yeah Tru Calling getting cancelled hurt especially finding out what would have come the following season
Enjoyed the retrospective. I consider Dollhouse to be the single greatest act of television that there is, next to The Wire. The fact that Whedon knew that the plug would be pulled would have killed any normal show, but it totally made Dollhouse work. The whole story is self-contained in those two seasons and the the two Epitaph episodes. It's so full of career-defining performances and incredibly deep psychology. I cannot express strongly enough how amazing that show was.
I honestly loved dollhouse season 1 and i never could pinpoint exactly what it was about Echo that bothered me, and you pointing out the acting levels finally made me understand what it was.
I love this show. I have it on DVD. But I always felt it suffered because it jumped to the dark stuff right from the beginning. To me, it should have started with half a season to a season of making out like being a doll was fun and exciting, they were helping the world. This week they helped the police, then they helped sick children, then they were daredevils, then infiltrating a Fast and Furious type team. Make us all think it’s cool. Then slowly pull the rug out and show, "Actually, if you look at it this way, it's kidnapping and human trafficking." They had a giant sandpit of possibilities to play with, and they went straight for the bad side. FBI guy Paul (I can't spell his real name), could have looked into it slowly. We could have seen the first time it crossed his desk. But instead, the first time we meet him, he's being reprimanded for looking into it. That could have been the start of season 2. Ease the studio and audience into it. It wasted by trying to go to fast.
There's a danger to that though, that you build the wrong fanbase. People looking for introspective science fiction and gray-on-gray morality are probably going to be turned off on what is essentially a human trafficking ring being used to do "The Fast and the Furious" plots. Meanwhile you build an audience of people enjoying popcorn action plots with a rotating cast of young, hot actors and actresses... only to have the rug pulled out from under them. It's the sort of idea that sounds very fun, but it's a great way to implode your show and get cancelled. Sudden tone switches in TV shows are very, very dangerous - most shows that undergo them lose huge tracts of their audience, rarely do they survive.
They had a 2 season deal it wasn't doing good numbers from the beginning so alot was rushed believing it may be a 1 and done, season 2 only returned because Joss got favors from actors to work fir scale, and cut the budget to what an episode of cops costed...still git low ratings and ended
it is a shame that it didnt get a long run. but at least they got to tell a shorter version. the whole premise of this show is just scary by the end as you realize how close tech is getting to this shows conclusion. my favorite episode is Belonging. it just startles u when watching just how well it is written and acted
I once heard it mentioned that on of the reasons Firefly was cancelled is because the per episode cost was the same as ST:tNG while having a B5 sized audience. (One of JMS's big efforts on B5 was keeping costs under control.)
Dollhouse borrows a lot from a 1970's British puppet show called Joe 90 It was about a 10 year old boy who had skills implanted his brain, including driving cars, spying and the use firearms and hand grenades.
Personally I think the top blue collar actor is Bruce Campbell. He may not be an A list star, but he has a successful career playing the average Joe the audience can relate to. I did see a few episodes of this show back in the day (I like Eliza Dushku), but like Firefly and Tru Calling the metaphorical plug was pulled too soon in my opinion.
I love seeing Dollhouse represented in one of these style videos! I honestly wasn't sure if I'd imagined it, so thanks for the closure. I do have to say that we disagree on Eliza's performance as, for me, she DID feel different scene to scene, to the point of me getting a little lost in the plot and back-forth of my first watch through. I'll admit that Eliza flashes through on her own in each person she portrays, but my interpretation of the show had Echo being an example of an Active that, no matter who they give her, show the corporation that you can't completely do away with a person's humanity and base self. It kind of seemed like the whole point of the show to me ^^; other interpretations are always gonna interest me, but it really felt like the show started with the eventually destruction of the company being THE end game.
Lawrence was also the rat on Vic Mackey's Strike Team in The Shield. He developed a small leak in the front of his face and a big leak in the back of his head.
I loved Dollhouse! I even toyed with writing out ideas for a Dollhouse videogame. 😅 Some sci-fi shows I wish were never cancelled: - Awake (2012) - New Amsterdam (2008) - Journeyman (2007) - Day Break (2006) - Forever (2014) and so much more
I watched and loved this show first run. What you are missing is that this was still airing in that time when TV shows were mostly still single episode adventures and expected to continue infinitely. My recollection of what happened was that Joss & Co found out it wasnt being picked up for S3 and basically burned it all to the ground. Which is that shift you are seeing in S2. At the time this was a really bold choice and very exciting for me and other sci-fi fans who were into the kind of TV that had an overarching story. We watched the last couple of episodes in astonishment that they'd actually even do such a thing more so than nit-picking any plot points. I believe it was a pivotal point in TV history because after that, we started seeing so many more complex stories with endings being written. Before this you'd watch a show degenerate till it got too stupid and they'd just cancel it and you'd never get the end or in many cases the answers to the questions you'd been wondering about for years. I think American Gothic eventually did an end of some sort many many years later but that show stands out to me as one of the main offenders of making me care and leaving me hanging. I remember all of us cheering on this finale of Dollhouse for the bold stand it took to give us an ending and to close up shop so it couldn't be revived later. Fantastic!!
The worst criticism I've heard of this show is "it's problematic." To me, that's a feature - not a bug. I like thinking for myself, and having a show where the protagonists aren't heroes (or even good people in some cases), the scenarios are often morally grey or even despicable, and the world is corrupt and largely apathetic made for stimulating material. I find there are two groups of people that have a problem with this show; the first group won't even watch it because "hate Joss Whedon" and the second group prefers unchallenging material that tells them how to feel instead of asking them how they feel.
I generally don't like antiheroes as protagonists, but that's just a personal taste. Echo was very much a hero in the way that she could be. But yeah, that "problematic" criticism always confused me. It's like people somehow didn't understand that taking away peoples' free will so they can be your fantasy slaves was a critique not an endorsement.
Let's make it official BRING ON THE GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN FOR "TRU CALLING"!!!!! I really loved where it was going and am still bummed we'll never know.
Loved that show to be honest. Enjoyed most the cast Dichen Lachman shrouded in mystery even Amy Acker from the Buffyverse. Always thought it was a better version of Dark Angle :P
"Rossum's Universal Robots" An early 20thC Czech play. 1920s or 30s. It's where we get the word "robot" from, IIRC. An inspiration for "Blade Runner", "Universal Soldier" and, of course, "Dollhouse".
I feel like Eliza's performance wasn't understood by most of the viewers. Each time Echo was imprinted, she retained part of the new personality that she was developing as a new entity. So even when she was imprinted, at her core, she was still Echo. They made that fairly clear with Alpha. Alpha was able to access the skills and memories from his imprints, but Alpha was omnipresent. That being the case, I think Eliza was able to weave Echo into each of the characters because Echo was present at all times.
Eliza Dushku was shafted too many times and I hate that the show's creator gets all the credit for this show. It NEVER would have worked without her. She made his "bad" girl characters sympathetic and three dimensional when they otherwise wouldn't looked over-bearing. Please know I'm saying this as a huge Slayerverse fan but knowing all that is know I'm glad the show ended so he didn't end up gaslighting her and everyone else for years as he did everywhere else. I know I may get many comments about how I'm "ungrateful." Know it takes 100s of people to make a show and once we start worshiping the "creator" it's never going to end up well.
I adore this show so much. One of the many things that I love is the theme song of the series. Unfortunately, I don’t know the name of the artist or the name of the song. Please help. Thanks in advance.
Hey guys!
This episode of GBNF was made from suggestions from fans who emailed us demanding this show be covered on this series. If you want to make suggestions for future episodes of GBNF then e-mail GBNFSeries@gmail.com and maybe we’ll cover your show!
May I suggest Caprica, the 2010 spinoff of the Battlestar Galactica reboot for your next GBNF video. I feel like that show was also another very underrated high concept sci-fi series that was cancelled too early. Also I'm sure any Battlestar Galactica fans would love to see you guys do a retrospective on it, as it tells the story of the Twelve Colonies before their destruction at the hands of the Cylons.
@@barbiquearea I'm probably the only person who thinks this, but I enjoyed Caprica more than BSG.
@@GnomesRox Same. I really wish it got a second season. But then, what can you do?
Fox did right by Dollhouse. They moved it because they saw it wouldn’t pull the ratings to justify the Monday time slot. It was a failure even for Fridays. The fact it got a second half of a season and even a second season after the first 5 episodes did its best to bury the show is a miracle and Fox trying to pay for the mistakes of Firefly. The first exciting thing to actually move the plot was like the second half of episode 5. It took the 6th episode before it had a good episode. That’s rough.
Also I enjoyed epitaph one when it originally aired (or released online). It was the best episode of season one and honestly gave show an actual end goal to aim towards which it needed badly.
The second season was definitely rushed but if they had not wasted so much time in the first season and in the first couple of season 2 they could have properly paced the show.
Two seasons was as much as the concept deserved. Fox should be given credit for pissing money away just to appease the nerds because that show was never close to a financial success.
@@barbiqueareaman is it a shame Caprica wasted the first half of its season before it decided to move the plot along. Definitely a tale of two halves.
I feel like a couple of the criticisms here weren't entirely fair, namely that Dushku wasn't playing as varied a set of roles as some of the other cast, and that Echo's ability to recall past imprints seemingly came out of nowhere.
The entire premise of the show was that Echo wasn't being wiped completely, despite the tech, but, rather, was developing her own gestalt personality made up of bits and pieces from all the imprints she'd experienced. So of course there's something of Echo behind each of the imprints she plays - that's the point. And if you recognise that - that there is an Echo personality behind the imprints, and that it has access to the skills and knowledge of past imprints - then the idea that she can develop to remember an entire imprint without needing the chair is just a natural progression - I remember that my reaction when they revealed it on the show was not "where did that come from?" but "finally! Of course she can do that!"
Agreed. I don’t know if that was the creative team’s intention, but it’s my favorite interpretation.
I also like to imagine that having less varied imprints might have led to Echo developing her abilities. Most of her imprints were what another commenter called “adventure girl”, which isn’t that far off from Caroline. So maybe she got to slowly expand her ability and accommodate her imprints.
I agree as well. It's been a long time since I saw the show, but I do remember that the progression felt logical and natural to me.
Loved the show when it aired in the UK, was gutted when it got cancelled.
I remember the moment after the 'hunting' trip, when she is back as Echo, but she did the "shoulder to the wheel" motion/gesture
YES. This was my view as well. Whether or not it had anything to do with Dushku's potential limitations on her talent, Echo was an amalgam, just like Alpha. Being able to see the same person behind all those different roles was the point of her character.
i thought that is is why alpha was obsessed with her
I thought Echo retained a level of consistent personality/presentation because that was key to the story. Deep down she retains an identity.
Not just that: she was the main character. The audience needed to feel that on some level they were tuning in to watch the same person each week, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten invested
I agree, she never fully became anyone else, she still knew who she was and "acted" like the new identity had taken, but it never did.
Such an underrated show, it has so much potential and it should’ve gone longer
At least it was given a second season to end on a high note. Which is more than what we can say for Josh Whedon's other short lived masterpiece of a series.
@@barbiquearea True, I'm very grateful it has a satisfying conclusion, and at least that other show has a movie
It had some wonderful scenes eg Topher and the British woman getting high, and while not anywhere near as good as Firefly, the earlier seasons were pretty good.
OTOH I dislike dystopias eg Fringe observer episodes (? Last season) , and I really disliked the left turn into full fledged (?post apocalyptic) dystopia at the end.
But given the concept I think it's easy to reboot.
Unrealised potential is another word for bad. See my old school report cards for evidence.
The reason why Dushku seemed too consistent is because Echo is too consistent. She retains memories from each imprint.
This and Tru Calling were not only fox's underrated shows. This was Eliza's best performances.
Tru was better was good from the start then got crazy better when Jason Priestley joined to try to undo everything she did, or even it out she gets to save someone he has someone pass to even it out..
@@petewillson205 and the second season made Tru and Jack characters more layered, blurring the lines who is the protagonist and who is the villain
the show with second season had so much potential, shame it was canceled
I loved both of them!
Topher's character arc is among my all-time favourite side-characters on TV, up there with Steve Harrington. His journey was fascinating (and heartbreaking) to watch.
Love this show! Great the way it is.
Enver Gjokaj's talant blew my mind, he had no reason to be so scared whatsoever :D
Enver Gjokaj was phenomenal. He was so good I didn't realise immediately that it wasn't Dominic and Topher in those scenes!
Enver does NOT get talked about enough.
Dollhouse was an amazing show -- thanks for doing this great video. I really enjoyed your focus on the acting chops of the cast: while it was certainly a heavy concept series, the amazing cast made it fun to watch episode after episode, even when Fox was messing with the scheduling and making it difficult to follow.
Eliza dushku is such a charismatic actress, season 3 of buffy was such a gamechanger
Its ashamed that her stock seems to have dropped after the drama on set of Bull.
I’ve only ever seen her in Dollhouse, and she’s not good. Easily the weakest actor in the entire ensemble (including many guest actors).
Guess she needed different material?
@@TheChancellor212 I would say that's more a result of how good everyone else was than her being weak. Enver and Dichen were just amazing. But as the lead of the show, that probably wasn't a good thing. But as the poster said, Eliza is so charismatic, I didn't care.
One thing I rarely hear about whedon is that he had an amazing instinct for casting. Every show he's done has had a great cast. Some became big stars, others were perfect in that one role and you never hear much of them again.
90% of directing is casting, so they say.
I watched Dollhouse on DVD at the time.(no TV). Your criticism of Eliza Dushku is what was said about Charlton Heston in the day, haha. The actors were terrific and the range of stories good. Thanks for the analysis!
This is my favorite of all Joss Whedon's TV series. Epitaph part 1 made me see the endgame that was planned for this series. I would have loved this series to have run 5 to 7 seasons with a future "epitaph" episode as the season finale every year building to the series final regular episode that leads into Epitaph part 1. Then have the series finale we got.
The underlying story was massive rushed to set up the elements necessary for the finale to make sense. Whedon was plotting the long game but Fox couldn't see it.
For a future installment may I suggest "Person of Interest". Another series playing the long game that was actually given the time to tell its story and evolve at its own pace.
Same.
LOL, I just watched this video, and posted a comment on how Dollhouse could have been a POI if treated differently, and I scroll down and see this.
I always figured that the second season rushed so many developments because they knew they weren't going to get a third season. They were cramming two or three seasons into one. Then Epitaph two sketched out about four more seasons worth of plot in a single episode, jumping ahead, but giving us a really good sense of what we'd missed (The way Echo reacts to Alpha for example: a few seconds of screen time shows us that these characters have been through entire arcs with each other)
And I think it worked great. I wish they'd had 5 seasons, or seven, but if we weren't getting that then this was the next best thing. I've never seen a series manage to give such a good sense of closure despite being so clearly cancelled way too soon
Thank you for making this video. This show is not talked about enough.
This show was so god damned good! It sucks that it ended prematurely, but at least it got an ending.
My favorite story line was the one of Dr. Saunders. When all gets revealed I was truly shocked and it's so heartbreaking.
And Amy Acker's performance was so strong, it's my favorite role of hers.
I loved this show at the time. Think it had real potential, but obviously the legacy of its creator means it’ll probably never be revisited.
it was a really good series. I remember how angry I was when I found out they were canceling it. But at least the series got some kind of ending, unlike Firefly, which Fox threw directly into the trash.
Sierra and Victor were lowkey the best part of this show. The episode where Victor gets Topher downloaded had me absolutely blown away!
I remembered watching this show around 2012 and liked it. Lots of plot twists and the characters are great. Somehow my favorite character on the show is Dichen Lachman. She also did great in Alter Carbon.
Her character was a real improvement over the book. The changes made her so much more relevant.
She was great. Dollhouse was so well cast.
You should watch Severance, she's on it
Love this show ! So glad you finally did an episode on it !!
Studio Executives: _We want to shock the audience! Violate social norms! Make something offensive!_
Also Studio Executives: _Do all that_ *but don’t offend us or the viewer or any possible viewers!* 😂
Just to "Echo" what others have said already in the comments. Eliza's underlying character was Echo which was why she may not have seemed to come off as a different persona with each engagement. My take on it was she did a phenomenal job with each persona and definitely carried the show in her scenes.
We just rewatched it after some years and I stand by it being one of my all-time favorite shows.
My thoughts are exactly the same as yours with Tudyk. I searched him out to watch more of him after seeing him play Alpha. Though, I feel like he wasn't used enough and his character didn't get a solid ending. But that could be summed up as the show being rushed and not being able to develop him more.
It's just a shame Fox ruined this opportunity.
I remember one of the things that bothered me so much about the ending was never finding out what happened to Alpha during the time-skip. Still drrlives me nuts now that I think back. 😅
Another hilarious and informative video about a grear show taken down too soon and lost to time. Thank you, David and Jesse.
Joss had a brilliant knack of being ahead of the pack...for a couple decades. ❤️ For this I am grateful.
I LOVED this show! I have the DVD version and I have watched it and watched it probably a half-dozen times. It was a crying shame that it was cancelled so soon by FOX! At least they managed to wrap it up well in the two-part finale which wasn't televised, as far as I know, but which is included in the DVD version. Thanks for making this video! I really enjoyed your analysis of the series!
LOVED Dollhouse. We got our rescue cat the same day as the finale aired. We named her Echo. Been so long since I watched it. Luckily, it's on Disney Plus for me to view (with Epitaph One in its proper place at the end of season 1)
I remember Victor as Topher, that was so good it was scary, that really got my attention, that's one of my favorite episodes
It’s on Hulu too. I recently rewatched it there. My favorite whedon project, and I love all the little in jokes and nods for people who are fans of other whedon projects “I can kill you with my brain”
Sweet! I'd love to watch it again.
Firefly 😊
i think they may have taken it off hulu :( at least i can’t find it anymore
@@castaway2850boo
I just recently binge watched Dollhouse again. I ADORE this show!! Eliza Dushku is a goddess and Alan Tudyk is a brilliant actor!
FINALLY. I was waiting for this to drop for months but hadn't seen it in my notifications.
I watched this when it was on originally and loved it, but it was a little difficult to understand. Then I found out the FOX made them show the series out out order. If you watch in the right order it makes much more sense. Those Friday nights used to have this AND The Sarah Conner chronicles, which was awesome too. These two shows would be huge HITS on streaming now of they were new and given a chance.
Great job, BTW, Viktor at Topher was one of the absolute best performances on this how. Man, I need to go back and watch all of these.
We covered Sarah Conner Chronicles if you haven’t seen the episode ruclips.net/video/iXlWgqtUOaI/видео.htmlsi=xyl6pYv3eyeIsKvS
I loved the Sarah Connor chronicles! Another awesome series that didn't get the respect it deserved.
I think I'm gonna cry. i have been waiting for someone to talk about this show for DECADES?? it's my favorite show.
It quickly became obvious to me that the technology would cost far more than could be gained from selling the actives as one form of escort or another. I wanted to see what the company was really doing, how they expected to gain enough power to be worth the expense. Then, having seen the epilogue, I wanted to know how Echo screwed everything up.
You should do Tru Calling- it was also overlooked
Spot on about the cast being great, every one of those actors is one that if/when I see them in another show/film/game/work I immediately think "oh, awesome!" lol.
I don't think Echo was another version of Faith. Faith was raw sex and was someone needing to be cared for, which is why the Major could so easily corrupt her. Now Echo, she had periods of sexiness, while also being flirty. It's what guys like, if you think about it. She was to express everything a guy wants from a sexually appealing person, without any undesirable baggage. However, once you get into the 2nd season, Echo changes thanks to Alpha. It's my belief, but something that wasn't explored very well, that some people did very well in taking on many personalities and they could have the ability to tap into them. Alpha was just saddled with psychotic personalities, along with his own. That's why he seems more balanced in the final show. It's why Victor and Sierra were able to have such an intense relationship, even when wiped. Parts of their souls existed.
I really like Dollhouse as an idea but it felt rushed, which of course it was. I have wondered how much more they could have done with it had it been allowed to take its time and grow, and then introduced different aspects as the seasons went on. Imagine if they had done something similar to Person Of Interest, and just added layers after each season so the story evolved more. POI just started as a simple crime of the week and evolved into sci-fi and so much more. But I am not sure how Dollhouse would have worked over that many episodes without the big sci-fi hook right at the start.
new fan here. just wanted to thank you for this awesome content. recently watched the Firefly one, and now this. fantastic coverage and analyzation of worthwhile selections. can't wait to discover more of your stuff. keep going!
ok, I was hooked until you said that Eliza Dushku wasn't as talented as your other favorites... I have loved her acting since I seen her in "True Lies" so, I mean, to each their own, but I always loved her acting
No I said she’s a great actress I even cited Cit by the Sea an amazing performance it’s just her performance here on the show wasn’t as great as the other actors. I even said that I suspected this may have been network interference. But she’s an incredible actress I just feel like she’s been typecast
The Left Hand when Enver portrays Topher while Topher is in DC with Summer Glau is one of my favorite episodes of any show ever.
Watching the two Tophers argue just never gets old. And the A plotline with Echo is good too. And did I mention Summer Glau? 10/10. No notes.
Thank you thank you thank you for pointing out how Miracle is the “whole package” Gorgeous and very talented. She was so amazing to watch
Wait - When Eliza Dushku said "moved to Hollywood at 17" she meant matured into more adult rolls. Because she was like 12, with a young Katherine Heigl (before Under Siege 2, My Father the Hero, and Grey's), in a movie called That Night. It starred Juliette Lewis and C. Thomas Howell. Plus wasn't she in True Lies... Sorry, I just 90's all over myself😕
I just recently watched that "That Night" I loved that movie... and yes, she was in True Lies
Hi David, really enjoyed this and I love Dollhouse. One bit of advice though, as it does affect how much fans are willing to listen to any given show. You might want to give Jesse a primer or key on pronunciation of proper names involved, like Rossum.
Eliza has a distinctive lower and husky voice. While it's possible to change up speech patterns, accents, etc. (and she did), there's still a point where you're limited by your physiological instrument. I think a lot of people who were critical of her in this role were maybe caught up on vocal identification. IMO, she actually brought a lot to her different imprints.
I wish we could have seen the original noir version of this show promised in the unaired pilot. Fox wanted to take a problematic premise and make it fun and sexy, which... doesn't really work. I still enjoyed the show, but it feels like there was a less self-confused and more intentional path for Dollhouse that we didn't get to see.
Tru Calling... wanted to love it, but I can't. It's some of the most ham-fisted writing I've ever encountered. It's also ham-fisted in the way it's written. And in case you didn't pick up on it the first two times, the scripts are a ham-fisted mess. Do we feel stupid yet? Ham-fisted.They brought in Jane Espenson and Doris Egan as writers for Season 2 (who are great), but it was too late.
I think the network wanted to sell Eliza's looks more than her talents.
Epiaph part one was broadcast over here, kind of surprised to hear it wasn't in the US.
I think Dushku's performance _had_ to be essentially the same in every persona. She was the main character, and she carried the focus of nearly every episode. The audience needed a consistent sense of who Echo was so that we could bond with her and care about her. And we needed to have some sense of what we were going to see week to week. Within those limits, I think she got to explore a pretty big range
It made sense in plot too. There was something different about Echo's brain chemistry, a lot like Alpha's. She was developing the ability to hold onto the memories that the Dollhouse thought they were wiping, even if they weren't consciously available until mid season two. Having a persistent base personality fits well with that
I loved this video. Dollhouse was a show I REALLY enjoyed. :)
I think in season 2 you can really tell there was a lot of ideas for entire seasons that were crushed into a single episode.
Like in season two there was a group of soldiers that all shared one mind. That could have been a season long big bad!
But good show. good video essay. thank you
Also, coming from Firefly, you don't usually get a sense of Tudyk's physicality, so Alpha is especially shocking by contrast. He's tall and VERY strong, and bloody fast. Add in the ability to act as a vicious character that you never remotely suspected from Wash, and.
Yeah all the streaming services put the "lost" ep in as the end of season 1. It was certainly out of nowhere, but I pretty much got "oh it's setting something up long term, cool" and yeah great episode.
I watched Dollhouse in the early 2010's and loved it. I had no idea Epitaph 1 wasn't part of the original airing and had watched it as the season 1 finale.
It threw me for a loop but I was so intrigued by it. I was definitely confused when series 2 started with no acknowledgement of it.
Same!!
I had watched the original airing, so hadn't seen Epitaph 1, but knew the finale hadn't been aired, so i got the dvd. when I finally watched Epitaph 1 it was a massive WTF moment. but i was all in. esp since it featured Felicia Day who i had loved on the guild around that time.
A video covering Tru Calling would be highly appreciated.
Also, the show that replaced it on Fox, Point Pleasant is worth covering as well.
It was a great show IMO. It's unfortunate that it ended so soon. I doubt it would ever be revived, but if it did it would be cast by new young actors and probably be updated for the current times. And the tone would likely change as I don't think Josh Whedon would serve as executive producer.
To summarize you, they would ruin it. Best to leave it lie.
Uhg. I was DEVASTATED when the show ended. It was JUST getting started after such a FANtastic 1st season! Jason Priestly was brilliant and the cast was incredible...including a then unknown Zack Galifianakis, in my favorite of all his roles to this day. He's a great actor, Tru Calling showed what he is capable of. PLEASE do a vid on it one day!!
I was confused and then you mentioned Jason Priestly. Yeah Tru Calling getting cancelled hurt especially finding out what would have come the following season
Love this show, other overlooked shows Travlers and Continuum
Enjoyed the retrospective. I consider Dollhouse to be the single greatest act of television that there is, next to The Wire. The fact that Whedon knew that the plug would be pulled would have killed any normal show, but it totally made Dollhouse work. The whole story is self-contained in those two seasons and the the two Epitaph episodes. It's so full of career-defining performances and incredibly deep psychology. I cannot express strongly enough how amazing that show was.
It was a very satisfying ending. Most two-season shows usually leave the audience hanging.
I honestly loved dollhouse season 1 and i never could pinpoint exactly what it was about Echo that bothered me, and you pointing out the acting levels finally made me understand what it was.
I still have the DVD! I loved this show and Eliza Dusku!!!!
This was one of my favorites and have been so happy to binge on Hulu recently. Its still as good now as it was then.
Great video. Epitaph One is also on the DVD set, not just blu ray. Also Altered Carbon has Tahmoh Penikett as a minor character for 2 episodes.
I love this show. I have it on DVD. But I always felt it suffered because it jumped to the dark stuff right from the beginning. To me, it should have started with half a season to a season of making out like being a doll was fun and exciting, they were helping the world. This week they helped the police, then they helped sick children, then they were daredevils, then infiltrating a Fast and Furious type team. Make us all think it’s cool. Then slowly pull the rug out and show, "Actually, if you look at it this way, it's kidnapping and human trafficking." They had a giant sandpit of possibilities to play with, and they went straight for the bad side. FBI guy Paul (I can't spell his real name), could have looked into it slowly. We could have seen the first time it crossed his desk. But instead, the first time we meet him, he's being reprimanded for looking into it. That could have been the start of season 2. Ease the studio and audience into it. It wasted by trying to go to fast.
There's a danger to that though, that you build the wrong fanbase. People looking for introspective science fiction and gray-on-gray morality are probably going to be turned off on what is essentially a human trafficking ring being used to do "The Fast and the Furious" plots. Meanwhile you build an audience of people enjoying popcorn action plots with a rotating cast of young, hot actors and actresses... only to have the rug pulled out from under them.
It's the sort of idea that sounds very fun, but it's a great way to implode your show and get cancelled. Sudden tone switches in TV shows are very, very dangerous - most shows that undergo them lose huge tracts of their audience, rarely do they survive.
I don't know, if the first half of the season was like that I may well have dropped it, and Dollhouse is a series I praise.
They had a 2 season deal it wasn't doing good numbers from the beginning so alot was rushed believing it may be a 1 and done, season 2 only returned because Joss got favors from actors to work fir scale, and cut the budget to what an episode of cops costed...still git low ratings and ended
You forgot to mention the opening theme song, I love it!
Love this show. It's weird and I can re-watch it over and over.
Also starred Aussie actor Dichen Lachlan who is still acting in high profile projects.
Eliza Dushku's name doesn't come up much in "Hottest of the 90s/2000s" conversations, but it should because she was top 10 beautiful.
it is a shame that it didnt get a long run. but at least they got to tell a shorter version. the whole premise of this show is just scary by the end as you realize how close tech is getting to this shows conclusion. my favorite episode is Belonging. it just startles u when watching just how well it is written and acted
I loved this show any ‘Tru Calking’ as well! I didn’t watch Buffy until later in life and when I saw ‘Tru’ on Buffy, we’ll that was icing on the cake!
I once heard it mentioned that on of the reasons Firefly was cancelled is because the per episode cost was the same as ST:tNG while having a B5 sized audience. (One of JMS's big efforts on B5 was keeping costs under control.)
Dollhouse borrows a lot from a 1970's British puppet show called Joe 90 It was about a 10 year old boy who had skills implanted his brain, including driving cars, spying and the use firearms and hand grenades.
And provided the nickname for a generation of smart kids who wore glasses.
we need a jo blo on the UK puppet-verse; Thunderbirds et al.
Lady Penelope.
Personally I think the top blue collar actor is Bruce Campbell. He may not be an A list star, but he has a successful career playing the average Joe the audience can relate to. I did see a few episodes of this show back in the day (I like Eliza Dushku), but like Firefly and Tru Calling the metaphorical plug was pulled too soon in my opinion.
The gear shift in Season 2 was amazing. Truly great show.
I am still a fan of DOLLHOUSE, I still think FAITH needs to have her own "spin off" show and that TRU DAVIES needs another chance!
Great vid!
I love seeing Dollhouse represented in one of these style videos! I honestly wasn't sure if I'd imagined it, so thanks for the closure. I do have to say that we disagree on Eliza's performance as, for me, she DID feel different scene to scene, to the point of me getting a little lost in the plot and back-forth of my first watch through. I'll admit that Eliza flashes through on her own in each person she portrays, but my interpretation of the show had Echo being an example of an Active that, no matter who they give her, show the corporation that you can't completely do away with a person's humanity and base self. It kind of seemed like the whole point of the show to me ^^; other interpretations are always gonna interest me, but it really felt like the show started with the eventually destruction of the company being THE end game.
I loved this show, but at least it kinda got a alright ending
Tahmoh Penikett was also a great reoccurring actor on Smallville as well.
Lawrence was also the rat on Vic Mackey's Strike Team in The Shield.
He developed a small leak in the front of his face and a big leak in the back of his head.
I *loved* Dollhouse! Joss Whedon is the KING.
I loved Dollhouse! I even toyed with writing out ideas for a Dollhouse videogame. 😅
Some sci-fi shows I wish were never cancelled:
- Awake (2012)
- New Amsterdam (2008)
- Journeyman (2007)
- Day Break (2006)
- Forever (2014)
and so much more
Such a great show. I wish it had been appreciated at the time. I think of it often, as the concepts it tacked are extremely relevant still today.
Still have these DVDs, love this show
I watched and loved this show first run. What you are missing is that this was still airing in that time when TV shows were mostly still single episode adventures and expected to continue infinitely. My recollection of what happened was that Joss & Co found out it wasnt being picked up for S3 and basically burned it all to the ground. Which is that shift you are seeing in S2. At the time this was a really bold choice and very exciting for me and other sci-fi fans who were into the kind of TV that had an overarching story. We watched the last couple of episodes in astonishment that they'd actually even do such a thing more so than nit-picking any plot points. I believe it was a pivotal point in TV history because after that, we started seeing so many more complex stories with endings being written. Before this you'd watch a show degenerate till it got too stupid and they'd just cancel it and you'd never get the end or in many cases the answers to the questions you'd been wondering about for years. I think American Gothic eventually did an end of some sort many many years later but that show stands out to me as one of the main offenders of making me care and leaving me hanging. I remember all of us cheering on this finale of Dollhouse for the bold stand it took to give us an ending and to close up shop so it couldn't be revived later. Fantastic!!
Rome on HBO had a similar fate.
PLEASE do an episode of Tru Calling. That show was so much better than it ever got recognition for
The worst criticism I've heard of this show is "it's problematic." To me, that's a feature - not a bug. I like thinking for myself, and having a show where the protagonists aren't heroes (or even good people in some cases), the scenarios are often morally grey or even despicable, and the world is corrupt and largely apathetic made for stimulating material.
I find there are two groups of people that have a problem with this show; the first group won't even watch it because "hate Joss Whedon" and the second group prefers unchallenging material that tells them how to feel instead of asking them how they feel.
I generally don't like antiheroes as protagonists, but that's just a personal taste. Echo was very much a hero in the way that she could be. But yeah, that "problematic" criticism always confused me. It's like people somehow didn't understand that taking away peoples' free will so they can be your fantasy slaves was a critique not an endorsement.
Let's make it official BRING ON THE GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN FOR "TRU CALLING"!!!!! I really loved where it was going and am still bummed we'll never know.
I like what you did with your end credits, hehe, dollhouses 😆
Fuck, a Faith and Spike show would have been awesome
Loved that show to be honest. Enjoyed most the cast Dichen Lachman shrouded in mystery even Amy Acker from the Buffyverse. Always thought it was a better version of Dark Angle :P
"Rossum's Universal Robots" An early 20thC Czech play. 1920s or 30s.
It's where we get the word "robot" from, IIRC. An inspiration for "Blade Runner", "Universal Soldier" and, of course, "Dollhouse".
4:45 I liked Tru Calling, I kept meaning to watch Dollhouse but never did
I feel like Eliza's performance wasn't understood by most of the viewers. Each time Echo was imprinted, she retained part of the new personality that she was developing as a new entity. So even when she was imprinted, at her core, she was still Echo. They made that fairly clear with Alpha. Alpha was able to access the skills and memories from his imprints, but Alpha was omnipresent. That being the case, I think Eliza was able to weave Echo into each of the characters because Echo was present at all times.
I have watched it through several times. It is a great show. I never watched any of the Buffy shows, so I did not know the character Faith.
I still love dollhouse! Just rewatched it again
I was a huge fan of the show when it was released and bummed when it got cancelled so soon... Also made Dushku a favorite of mine due to that show...
Thank you so much for talk about one of my favorite shows ever
I loved Dollhouse! It should have gone on longer.
Eliza Dushku was shafted too many times and I hate that the show's creator gets all the credit for this show. It NEVER would have worked without her. She made his "bad" girl characters sympathetic and three dimensional when they otherwise wouldn't looked over-bearing. Please know I'm saying this as a huge Slayerverse fan but knowing all that is know I'm glad the show ended so he didn't end up gaslighting her and everyone else for years as he did everywhere else. I know I may get many comments about how I'm "ungrateful." Know it takes 100s of people to make a show and once we start worshiping the "creator" it's never going to end up well.
I adore this show so much.
One of the many things that I love is the theme song of the series. Unfortunately, I don’t know the name of the artist or the name of the song. Please help. Thanks in advance.
What You Don't Know (Theme from "Dollhouse")
Song by Jonatha Brooke
I demand an episode exploring Tru Calling!
This show was great I definitely never forgot it