Would you use wireless brakes? Would the lack of feedback from the lever put you off? | Watch the GMBN Tech interview and detailed look 👉 ruclips.net/video/qTxtrt49Sxc/видео.html
More reasons to get £15000 out of us for s push bike ? Think it is time I brought a MOTORCYCLE instead , nice DUCATI for £10,000 a lot cheaper and you get a shag instead of looking a twat in spandex and a kids helmet !
This is absolutely amazing ! Not just designing and building that on your own, but also daring to actually ride it pretty fast on real trails. And massive props to Blake for actually making a front brake version aswell. Im pretty certain quite some people would dare to try out the rear one but certainly only very few would dare to even touch that little front brake lever , for obvious reasons. 😆
@BlakeSamson8 100% mkII needs to happen. I'd ride them if I could afford them. People fly planes with no mechanical connections. There's literally planes that would be impossible to fly with a mechanical yoke. Why can't bikes be fly by wire, too? I'm on board.
@@pewsician2388 planes have decades of engineering and they are still crashing sometimes,yet their battery wont die midflight, and there is still physical cables connecting all the stuff in plane. On bike it has thousand opportunities to fail from error in electronics to lost signal or dead battery. And if battery dies once a month, you will probably end up crashing into the wall once a month
@@BigAsianJesus not necessarily, just have two separate systems for each brake so if one fails, you can use the other, or just brake by wire with regen braking
@@BigAsianJesus On semi trucks, the air system could fail and there would be no brakes. The safely approach used there is that when there is no air, the powerful brake springs will stop the vehicle. Maybe an approach could be that when the battery dies, the unit defaults to full brakes. Not sure how to work something like that out though.
my thoughts would be using the stuff that bottom out bumpers on coil shocks as you could swap the rubber out dippending on if you like more modulation or a short sharp leaver feel
Not an expert in electronics but was also going to suggest a potentiometer. Controller will read the potentiometer output and convert to rotations on the servo. But I assume you will have to build your own controller instead of using the RC car controller?
This would actually be extremely useful for mountain bikers like me with slight arthritis in the finger joints. Having no resistance in the levers means that I can press the brakes easier without having to worry about my arthritis giving me problems while slowing down. This new invention would be epic for other bikers who have finger disabilities and require no resistance in the brake lever to slow down. Well done Blake!
Next level is to connect the brakes directly to the rider's brain, so that you just think "slight brake now", and the bike brakes! The interface is yet to be developed.
Mk2 would definitely be interesting to see. Maybe longer levers could help with the modulation because the travel of the lever increased compared to the movement at the sensor. As scary as those are, they're equally interesting.
@@gmbn well the tech & protocols already exist, it’s just public acceptance that will be the biggest hurdle. As with everything bike related, once it’s been raced at the top level & the concept has been proven then it will slowly become accepted. Yeah, I’d definitely try them, I’ve always bought into the tech & been an early adopter for as long as I’ve been into mountain biking. Carbon frames, Disc brakes, Front, then Full suspension, dropper posts, have had first generation versions of all of them.
@@gmbn as for how long? I bet the Skunk Works versions are already out in the real world…couple of years tops until all the negative attitudes towards electric shifting die away, then the doors are open as the tech has already been proven.
@@gmbn I agree with darren, the tech is here for a long long time, just public and consumer acceptance is the main problem. Everything in the bike industry at some point has some skeptics from tech that we use today. Suspension for example, people questioned why 120mm is a thing for downhill, if 100mm or even 80mm is enough. Now look at today, where 200mm is the norm. So definitely, it'll come, but not soon enough.
Great video Blake! I do have some suggestions regarding the implementation of modulation. Two key things here: the actual modulation in the caliper, and the user-end's perception of modulation in the controls. I would suggest attaching a stiff spring between the servo and the cable pulling the caliper so that the braking force ramps up as the servo pulls more. On the lever side, you could use an elastomer or compression spring that pushes against the lever blade on the end part of its travel. You can use a cable brake lever to pull on the trigger part of the mechanism. Last touches will then be to fine tune the bite point on the caliper side to match with the lever starting to engage the resisting spring.
Love Blake and the breadth of his skills. I’ve been getting into diy electronics the past couple years. The key to making wireless brakes actually work is some type of force feedback like sim racing steering wheels.
As an electronics nerd, I found this quite interesting. I used to say that brakes is the one thing I wouldn't want to be wireless, but after seeing this I am beginning to think differently. Lots of refining needed now, such as latency, integration, etc. I can see this happening. I foresee the caliper and server being one unit, the brake levers having a normal look and feel for the sake of intuitiveness and feedback. And of course water resistance.
As long as both the brakes are on a different frequency it's highly unlikely for both breaks to fail simultaneously.... So I suppose the failsafe is basically Which ever brake , front or back hasn't failed.
This is mindblowing - imagine having programmable brake profiles for wet and dry conditions. ABS and no more blocking brakes. Automatic brake force distribution with only one lever or braking with different switches like gripshifts or your feet position. I´d totally buy that! I am riding AXS on three different bikes now and it never ever failed in four years. Could be solved with a fail-safe mode: Rear brake closes and front opens when battery is too low.
I'd reccomend using a load cell for control on V2, should make it way easier to modulate. Edit: if you're feeling extra adventurous (and have a spare set of handlebars, which you lads 100% do) you could put the electronics inside the handlebars for an extra sleek look
Thanks, Blake for making it a reality. Few months ago I was saying a similar concept to my roommate but he wasn't quite enthusiastic about listening to me. and I can show him this for reference.
If you're doing the mark 2, i've got some ideas: Put a heavier springs on the triggers so they feel more real. Shorthen the servo arm for so they don't feel on and off, For flexing you could make the mounts also sit on the frame and tighten them with some zip ties. Nice and fun project tho!
Those wireless protocols are so reliable, it is a tech from FPV drones or RC planes. This one uses ESCs and servos, with no flight controller so more like a FPV wing. As long as you have a reliable receiver and transmitter you should be fine. ELRS is a good one, but maybe TBS Crossfire would be more sturdy. You can edit servos speed so it should feel more responsive with a lower delay. I was thinking about this setup, but obviously, it is unpractical, you can get a pair of good brakes for £150. Making levers longer could be beneficial, getting a spring-loaded gimbal is easy. Great video Blake, you are a legend
@@gmbn @NateHills have talked about this for a long, long time. I always said it wouldn't be such a big deal to put RC servos and get it done, haha. Glad someone finally got around to do it but personally I like it on someone else's bike. hahah.
Freaking brilliant!! On "armagedon" principle (and cost) I'm personally against wireless stuff but it is progress and you're talk through it was excellent!! I can see this turning up on some secret downhill competition bike next season and I hope they come to be known as Blakes rather than Brakes!!??
If the insurance industry will underwrite fly-by-wire for vehicles traveling 400 mph with 320 people aboard, they surely could find an acceptable bicycle design. One person riding no more than 40 mph? Child's play!
I'm finding it impossible not to point out that there were wires, just short ones and not connected to the levers BUT it was such a good video that this isn't important. Most people would have just talked about this idea, the rest would have got someone to make it for them but Blake did it himself 🙌
Blake, this is so sick. As a bike mechanic, I think this is fascinating and so out of my skills 😂 kudos to your abilities and skills to do this in your garage....Sram and Shimano are watching 😅
I don’t think it’s that bad: •Very occasionally my hydraulics have failed on me so it’s not like wireless would be the only one •If I had these on my bike I’d know I’d fully charge them before every ride •I would definitely stop if I heard them beep to tell me they are low •Even if one did run out it’s very unlikely they’d both run out/fail at the same time so I’d just use the other working brake to stop.
@@benw6952 I admit that wireless brakes would suit some riders (and heck, I love the no wire look of the bike, and the freedom of movement it would give), but they would definitely not be for everyone. As someone who forgets to check the batteris on everything, I probability would be dead (and I know a bunch of people that are just like me). With that being said, I'd love to see this idea made into a real product, even tho I would probably avoid it.
@@benw6952 what about if u go fast and there is a jammer and the connection will be lost in the system and u could die not good idea u could ruin lot of races with this the only thing u need is jammer very dangerous
@@kidShibuya Not too many cars atm have them really. And those cars have redundancy of hydraulic brake system if electric one fails, that wouldn't make any sense on bikes. What advantages do you think there is to wireless brakes on mtbs?
@@Dirtypandasan The main advantage, which I think is a great one, is that a non hydraulic, non cable actuated lever doesnt have any resistance to pull against. That also means no fatigue in the brake fingers. Which actually is my only problem when biking. I think that, even though it seems like a terrible idea, it can be a really great one actually which I would definitely love to try out in a more refined iteration.
they are for sure gonna come, for the feedback I reckon they'd be using haptic feedback like the ones you found on game controllers. the genuine feel for the hydraulic oils I am guessing is the brake lever would have some chamber of oil in it, with a sensor/servo that replicates the feel of it presssing on the calipers, say the equal volume you press on the levers, would be the same volume of force on the calipers.
For my bicycle camper, wireless brakes are the BEST idea. They will essentially be an e-brake anyway and only used when necessary ie. To keep my camper from rolling backwards down a steep hill.
As the big bike companies lawyers sit quietly shaking their heads. Manufacturers would be sued back to the stone age when the crashes start on day one….
Look, it's not needed on the front, just run a cable past the stem cap and to the brake, but yes, I could see some people running these, with a wireless dropper and gear shift, to remove all the frame cables and hoses.
@@bibasik7if they only need to do it with the rear brake it is possible. But generally I feel how effective the rear brake is being using my feet and legs.
This is awesome content once again! Got to appreciate Blakes courage actually riding downhill with completely wireless :D We definitely want to see mk2 in action. I could see real use for this kind of tech combined with abs. But for trail I'd like some kind of force feedback. So propably this will never brake it mainstream :P
Amazing! The knowledge you gained on your own and applied it to make it real! Keep engineering Blake! You just made the unfeasible, feasible, what a legend
What an undertaking! Excellent ideas. You're most of the way there. Finding a way to increase modulation and reduce sensitivity sounds like the next challenge. Definitely want to see a MkII version.
Blake, if you're gonna struggle with the soullessness of the feel of levers then research this: "Load cell". In Sim racing it does wonders on brake pedals because data comes from the amount of pressure/load applied rather than travel of the lever.
Nice work as always mate, check out the settings for your transmitter (the thing on the brake lever), some have the option to set "expo", meaning the servo will ramp up in throw, the further you actuate it.
Negative expo is your friend to tune out the sensitivity from the levers. Not sure if your choice of radio transmitter has that option but that will be the way to go - that’s what we do when we are doing high speed runs on overpowered RC cars that can go well over 200kph. Just like driving a RC car, you develop the sense of “brake feel” over time. Great proof of concept Blake! Even at your otherworldly skill level - please stay safe!!!
Awesome job Blake! I am into RC for over 20 yrs and seen a lot of RC planes with rc operated brakes. Was thinking how to transform this idea into MTB. Thise TRP brakes solved the missing link :) never seen them before. If you are for Version 2.0 think about - modulation (different spring rate for controller lever), servo throw (exponential rate on controller) - it's the same as if you'd use Sram lever on Shimano caliper... However the best usage would be on Spectral:ON and those servos be powered from the main battery via USB port - this would solve possible run out of battery scenarios when riding. ❤ props for your work!
TRP brakes are amazingly durable and eliminate allllll of the faffing about with brake bleeding etc needed for full hydro brakes. I have commented numerous times on GCN about how outstanding they are. Got no traction or comments back from presenters as they are not sponsored kit. I am a Clydesdale rider and if they can stop me from mid 20 mph range, they are not to be sneezed at. Run them on mountain and road bikes. Top it all of with, they are cheap..like the budgie!
I made my custom 36er bike with zero cable stops in anticipation of a future wireless braking system,. I'm ready! It already has a SRAM Eagle AXS rear derailleur.
Another pearler! 😂 Absolute madness… You could change the pull ratio on the servo arm to change the modulation… the closer the cable is fastened to the servo output shaft, the slower and smaller the stroke of the caliper, it will increase the maximum pressure the servo can deliver to the caliper too 👍 Can’t wait to see v2 😊
Blake, to solve the modulation issue you can add springs at the lever and between the servo and the caliper (it will transform the position control you have on the servo into a force modulation). And with the right spring rates combination between the one at the lever an the one at the caliper you could achieve a feel almost identical to the one you would get with a cable between the lever and the caliper.
As a rear brake only system, i could dig this. Some force feedback on the lever, like the ps5 controller triggers and the front brake staying hydraulic through the stem. Bar spins and tailwhips for on the mountain bike!
Love how you guys know how to play around with technical stuff too, rather than only ride bicycles in inhuman fashion. Never expected or even thought of this stuff LOL
Super cool proof of concept. I expect a Super refined version will become reality on top spec bikes in the next few years but I'm less convinced it will become mainstream for at least another 10+ years.
I'd love a full cableless cockpit. I have no doubt that if and when wireless brakes come out, the lever feel will be the biggest selling point from one company to another. That will take the most R&D to get right, IMO.
In thinking some more about it. These would be awesome on something like a tri bike- whether hands are in aero or on the hoods you can shift your electronic gears or, coming into a turn, apply the brakes no matter your hand position. This can be great.
100% need a Mk 2 - BBW is definitely the way ahead - cable-less is the future, just need to find a way to program in brake feel into it, great effort Blake!
I think everybody wanted to see this madness. :) You now have validated the concept, I expect this to be on market by industry leaders within 4 years, in about 8 years it is mainstream, and in about 12 years it is the standard. I have been wrong about many things, so don't take my word for it. :D Still: such a clean bar. :)
Depending on what radio system you're using, you could use a single transmitter on the bars and use a separate channel for each brake. That would result in one less battery. A faster servo would probably help, something that can mimic the same speed as you pulling the lever. This was really cool and probably a lot of fun to build.
@gmbn for the mk2 use a higher quality radio at the lever end. This will allow you to fine tune the servo travel via the 'end point' setting. That way the full 'lever' stroke will only move the servo the specified amount creating a larger window of modulation.
Instead of using the servo to pull the cable, use a strong spring to do that. Then, use the servo to actually *release* the brake. That way the system is fail safe, so if there's no power or the servo breaks, it applies the brake.
@@piast99 Good point. Perhaps you could have different systems for the front/rear wheel. Use fail safe at the back, but not at the front. (so it won't send you otb on power failure)
Awesome effort Blake. A little spacer inserted to stop the rear lever dropping and locking up should help. Phase 2, absolutely give it a go. I still want to see Crab phase 2. You could call it the lobster. 😎👍
Amazing video Blake, version 2 or wireless brakes 2.0 yes please, would be great to see a more compact version on bikes in shops in the future, something maybe to charge from the spin of the wheel, no battery maybe. Loved this video and idea(cableless/fully wireless bike)!
I was just thinking about this the other day, with all the wireless shifting we have now. Maybe the big brands are also doing in secret. 😊 would be sick to see it all and improved! Wireless and clean cockpit!!!
This is hilarious! Here's an idea though for the feel of the levers: What if you put a stiff spring on the lever and adjusted the trim of the servo to match the progression of the spring so it wouldn't be so touchy and lock up? Maybe even make like a stop to to where you can trim out the servo for your specific body weight.
Hi, you could stop the popping of the controler by making the lever longer and puting there a spring facing outwards. The spring would push the lever out and it would also make a little bit of modulation posible. I thing that you could use suspencion from RC micro crawlers. I hope you make a part 2 and sorry for gramatics.
If you get a transmitter that lets you add an expo curve on the channel you're using to control the brake lever, then you could maybe use that to fine tune the modulation
I'm currently running an rc system I made for my electric paddle board on my e8000, electronics were toast so I wired an rc helicopter speed controller directly to the motor then I used a cable brake lever to operate the transmitter which is in my bar bag, 6s brick size battery in a tank bag works surprisingly well!
Keep going on a mark 2 please. Imagine how clean an AXS or Di2 bike would be with wireless brakes. No need for finicky internal cable/hose routing!! Mind blown.
I think a good idea to address the modulation issue would be to use a weight scale sensor/load cell (someone else mentioned that too), which does not have (to my knowledge) any moving parts. This way the break levers will be stiff and you could modulate the brakes purely by force applied.
It will definitely become a thing in the next few years as brands start making and testing them until they are fully trustworthy. Nice job managing to make that work
When I first saw the teaser on Instagram, I was skeptical. I thought how is an RC servo going to provide enough torque to pull a cable actuated brake? Then you pull out these cable actuated hydro calipers. I didn't even know that was a thing. The way you pulled the guts from an RC remote and then fabbed it all together is amazing. I cant believe you rode with them down those trails. You must have rode them long enough around the neighborhood first to build some confidence. That would be freaky to not have the finger feedback. As others said though, you can probably add a stiff spring and that would give the similar feedback. This was a realy cool video. Nice job Blake.
Would you use wireless brakes? Would the lack of feedback from the lever put you off? | Watch the GMBN Tech interview and detailed look 👉 ruclips.net/video/qTxtrt49Sxc/видео.html
You would need to build in feedback for them to be useful.
I can understand wireless shifting but not this.
No. Just safety concerns. Ahem, what if it fails to receive signals?
Never, brakes must work
More reasons to get £15000 out of us for s push bike ? Think it is time I brought a MOTORCYCLE instead , nice DUCATI for £10,000 a lot cheaper and you get a shag instead of looking a twat in spandex and a kids helmet !
This is arguably one of the all time best Blakes Builds GMBN has done. Simply brilliant. I enjoyed every minuit of this one. 🤘⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thanks ❤
This is absolutely amazing ! Not just designing and building that on your own, but also daring to actually ride it pretty fast on real trails. And massive props to Blake for actually making a front brake version aswell. Im pretty certain quite some people would dare to try out the rear one but certainly only very few would dare to even touch that little front brake lever , for obvious reasons. 😆
Thanks dude. It was a hell of a challenge. Loved it
@BlakeSamson8 100% mkII needs to happen. I'd ride them if I could afford them. People fly planes with no mechanical connections. There's literally planes that would be impossible to fly with a mechanical yoke. Why can't bikes be fly by wire, too? I'm on board.
@@pewsician2388 planes have decades of engineering and they are still crashing sometimes,yet their battery wont die midflight, and there is still physical cables connecting all the stuff in plane. On bike it has thousand opportunities to fail from error in electronics to lost signal or dead battery. And if battery dies once a month, you will probably end up crashing into the wall once a month
@@BigAsianJesus not necessarily, just have two separate systems for each brake so if one fails, you can use the other, or just brake by wire with regen braking
@@BigAsianJesus On semi trucks, the air system could fail and there would be no brakes. The safely approach used there is that when there is no air, the powerful brake springs will stop the vehicle. Maybe an approach could be that when the battery dies, the unit defaults to full brakes. Not sure how to work something like that out though.
Blakes videos style is always so captivating. The way he is always so giddy about what hes doing and the editing style supporting it.
Thanks for the awesome feedback, we all got giddy about this video!
@@gmbn, maybe someone already said it but, with a longer lever it will be easier to modulate. Regards
the Stoke is real with that man! And it is contagious.
For a v2: try to use a conventional mtb lever + potentiometer. Also implementing a strong spring into the lever could help with modulation
yea its missing the feedback we're used to, which is why its so automatic to just grab all the brake and lock it up.
my thoughts would be using the stuff that bottom out bumpers on coil shocks as you could swap the rubber out dippending on if you like more modulation or a short sharp leaver feel
Not an expert in electronics but was also going to suggest a potentiometer. Controller will read the potentiometer output and convert to rotations on the servo. But I assume you will have to build your own controller instead of using the RC car controller?
Maybe glue a magnet to the lever and use a hall effect sensor
If you want it to be based on feel a load cell would be ideal
Absolutely!!! We need mark II, super excited on that.😊
This would actually be extremely useful for mountain bikers like me with slight arthritis in the finger joints. Having no resistance in the levers means that I can press the brakes easier without having to worry about my arthritis giving me problems while slowing down. This new invention would be epic for other bikers who have finger disabilities and require no resistance in the brake lever to slow down. Well done Blake!
Next level is to connect the brakes directly to the rider's brain, so that you just think "slight brake now", and the bike brakes!
The interface is yet to be developed.
Arthritis…get Hayes Dominion A4s. The best brake feel available.
Mk2 would definitely be interesting to see. Maybe longer levers could help with the modulation because the travel of the lever increased compared to the movement at the sensor. As scary as those are, they're equally interesting.
Thank you Blake! I know that watching it 5-6-7-years later and web shopping for some XT, XTR wireless brakes we will be thankful to you again! :- )))
Absolutely BRILLIANT. I will buy it in a heart beat. Imagine GMBN being the pioneer in wireless bike brakes. Brilliant I tell you.
Lol husband, father, mountain biker, vlogger, carpenter and now an electrical/ mechanical engineer! Blake's a one man show.
If only - everyone else on this channel is either a complete wet wipe or annoying af
Haha, ‘Die-by-Wire’ braking… 😂
Great job Blake, creative thinking but it’s defo gonna be a thing somewhere down the line…
How long away do you think? Would you purchase some?
@@gmbn well the tech & protocols already exist, it’s just public acceptance that will be the biggest hurdle. As with everything bike related, once it’s been raced at the top level & the concept has been proven then it will slowly become accepted.
Yeah, I’d definitely try them, I’ve always bought into the tech & been an early adopter for as long as I’ve been into mountain biking. Carbon frames, Disc brakes, Front, then Full suspension, dropper posts, have had first generation versions of all of them.
@@gmbn as for how long? I bet the Skunk Works versions are already out in the real world…couple of years tops until all the negative attitudes towards electric shifting die away, then the doors are open as the tech has already been proven.
@@gmbn I agree with darren, the tech is here for a long long time, just public and consumer acceptance is the main problem. Everything in the bike industry at some point has some skeptics from tech that we use today. Suspension for example, people questioned why 120mm is a thing for downhill, if 100mm or even 80mm is enough. Now look at today, where 200mm is the norm. So definitely, it'll come, but not soon enough.
Oh yes, the other kind of "Death Grip Challenge"!
Now this is what the internet was made for. Incredible effort. Please keep refining these!
Love the use of CAD (cardboard aided design) for making the brackets
Brilliant! This needs to be sent to GCN's Hack/Bodge of the week. It is an ingenious hack and at the same time it is a hazardous bodge beyond belief.
Great video Blake! I do have some suggestions regarding the implementation of modulation.
Two key things here: the actual modulation in the caliper, and the user-end's perception of modulation in the controls.
I would suggest attaching a stiff spring between the servo and the cable pulling the caliper so that the braking force ramps up as the servo pulls more. On the lever side, you could use an elastomer or compression spring that pushes against the lever blade on the end part of its travel. You can use a cable brake lever to pull on the trigger part of the mechanism. Last touches will then be to fine tune the bite point on the caliper side to match with the lever starting to engage the resisting spring.
Love Blake and the breadth of his skills. I’ve been getting into diy electronics the past couple years. The key to making wireless brakes actually work is some type of force feedback like sim racing steering wheels.
As an electronics nerd, I found this quite interesting. I used to say that brakes is the one thing I wouldn't want to be wireless, but after seeing this I am beginning to think differently. Lots of refining needed now, such as latency, integration, etc. I can see this happening. I foresee the caliper and server being one unit, the brake levers having a normal look and feel for the sake of intuitiveness and feedback. And of course water resistance.
Would need a failsafe of some kind.....
Throw in a micro controller with wheel speed sensor this has the capability of ABS on bikes.
How about running the front cable through the stem and steerer and down to the front brake and only having the rear as a wireless one?
As long as both the brakes are on a different frequency it's highly unlikely for both breaks to fail simultaneously.... So I suppose the failsafe is basically Which ever brake , front or back hasn't failed.
Or just keep the front as a cable/hydraulic run through the stem, as it's the one that gets most use anyway.
This is mindblowing - imagine having programmable brake profiles for wet and dry conditions. ABS and no more blocking brakes. Automatic brake force distribution with only one lever or braking with different switches like gripshifts or your feet position. I´d totally buy that!
I am riding AXS on three different bikes now and it never ever failed in four years. Could be solved with a fail-safe mode: Rear brake closes and front opens when battery is too low.
I'd reccomend using a load cell for control on V2, should make it way easier to modulate.
Edit: if you're feeling extra adventurous (and have a spare set of handlebars, which you lads 100% do) you could put the electronics inside the handlebars for an extra sleek look
Thanks, Blake for making it a reality. Few months ago I was saying a similar concept to my roommate but he wasn't quite enthusiastic about listening to me. and I can show him this for reference.
If you're doing the mark 2, i've got some ideas:
Put a heavier springs on the triggers so they feel more real.
Shorthen the servo arm for so they don't feel on and off,
For flexing you could make the mounts also sit on the frame and tighten them with some zip ties.
Nice and fun project tho!
Those wireless protocols are so reliable, it is a tech from FPV drones or RC planes. This one uses ESCs and servos, with no flight controller so more like a FPV wing. As long as you have a reliable receiver and transmitter you should be fine. ELRS is a good one, but maybe TBS Crossfire would be more sturdy. You can edit servos speed so it should feel more responsive with a lower delay. I was thinking about this setup, but obviously, it is unpractical, you can get a pair of good brakes for £150. Making levers longer could be beneficial, getting a spring-loaded gimbal is easy. Great video Blake, you are a legend
It's crazy, I always thought of something like this, and now it's real! So sick!
How long do you think before we see something like this in real production?
@@gmbn definitely not too long, maybe in an year or two
@@gmbnHopefully never, lol
@@gmbn @NateHills have talked about this for a long, long time. I always said it wouldn't be such a big deal to put RC servos and get it done, haha. Glad someone finally got around to do it but personally I like it on someone else's bike. hahah.
Blake is a National treasure!!! Protect this man at all cost! 😅 Brilliant build!
This is a sick proof of concept and would be sick for DJ bikes and we need pt 2!!
Freaking brilliant!! On "armagedon" principle (and cost) I'm personally against wireless stuff but it is progress and you're talk through it was excellent!! I can see this turning up on some secret downhill competition bike next season and I hope they come to be known as Blakes rather than Brakes!!??
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone was mad enough to try this! Very innovative solution, entertaining stuff.
I'm pretty sure there is not a single insurance company that would be ready to back this idea but it's pretty stunning Blake actually got it to work
Haha, liability was the first thing I thought of, impressive engineering though!
Nerds
If the insurance industry will underwrite fly-by-wire for vehicles traveling 400 mph with 320 people aboard, they surely could find an acceptable bicycle design. One person riding no more than 40 mph? Child's play!
RC stuff is pretty advanced now and these systems are flying around above your head already, locked on and ready to fire if you dont comply with Joe!
I'm finding it impossible not to point out that there were wires, just short ones and not connected to the levers BUT it was such a good video that this isn't important. Most people would have just talked about this idea, the rest would have got someone to make it for them but Blake did it himself 🙌
Blake, this is so sick. As a bike mechanic, I think this is fascinating and so out of my skills 😂 kudos to your abilities and skills to do this in your garage....Sram and Shimano are watching 😅
As always, you are a legend Blake! This is revolutionary! Fully wireless cockpit would be amazing
Good proof of concept, but a really bad idea.
🙃 haha
Yep. One dead battery away from... well, possible death
I don’t think it’s that bad:
•Very occasionally my hydraulics have failed on me so it’s not like wireless would be the only one
•If I had these on my bike I’d know I’d fully charge them before every ride
•I would definitely stop if I heard them beep to tell me they are low
•Even if one did run out it’s very unlikely they’d both run out/fail at the same time so I’d just use the other working brake to stop.
@@benw6952 I admit that wireless brakes would suit some riders (and heck, I love the no wire look of the bike, and the freedom of movement it would give), but they would definitely not be for everyone.
As someone who forgets to check the batteris on everything, I probability would be dead (and I know a bunch of people that are just like me).
With that being said, I'd love to see this idea made into a real product, even tho I would probably avoid it.
@@benw6952 what about if u go fast and there is a jammer and the connection will be lost in the system and u could die not good idea u could ruin lot of races with this the only thing u need is jammer very dangerous
Excellent! Huge YES to the "Mark II" video.
Notwithstanding that wireless brakes are a fundamentally terrible idea, this was fascinating. Some hugely impressive engineering from Blake!
They are coming, they are an excellent idea and odds are your car already uses them.
@@kidShibuya Not too many cars atm have them really. And those cars have redundancy of hydraulic brake system if electric one fails, that wouldn't make any sense on bikes. What advantages do you think there is to wireless brakes on mtbs?
@@Dirtypandasan The main advantage, which I think is a great one, is that a non hydraulic, non cable actuated lever doesnt have any resistance to pull against. That also means no fatigue in the brake fingers. Which actually is my only problem when biking. I think that, even though it seems like a terrible idea, it can be a really great one actually which I would definitely love to try out in a more refined iteration.
they are for sure gonna come, for the feedback I reckon they'd be using haptic feedback like the ones you found on game controllers. the genuine feel for the hydraulic oils I am guessing is the brake lever would have some chamber of oil in it, with a sensor/servo that replicates the feel of it presssing on the calipers, say the equal volume you press on the levers, would be the same volume of force on the calipers.
For my bicycle camper, wireless brakes are the BEST idea. They will essentially be an e-brake anyway and only used when necessary ie. To keep my camper from rolling backwards down a steep hill.
Just love that you made it work. Yeah it can be done a lot better but you did it first. Big props for off the shelf mad scientist skills
Execs at SRAM and Shimano will be pretty upset this morning - this will ruin a few patent applications :-) Well done
Do you even know how patents work?
Yes I’m a world class patent lawyer. No wait I’m just a bike enthusiast. Do you know how RUclips comments work?
Blake should have his own channel. Guy is amazing at all he does. This one blew my mind.
If Blake could do this in his home garage, so can the big companies. We are going to see fully wireless bikes in the future. Crazy to think about..
As the big bike companies lawyers sit quietly shaking their heads. Manufacturers would be sued back to the stone age when the crashes start on day one….
Look, it's not needed on the front, just run a cable past the stem cap and to the brake, but yes, I could see some people running these, with a wireless dropper and gear shift, to remove all the frame cables and hoses.
They would need to have a force feedback unit to make the brakes feel right
@@bibasik7if they only need to do it with the rear brake it is possible. But generally I feel how effective the rear brake is being using my feet and legs.
This is awesome content once again! Got to appreciate Blakes courage actually riding downhill with completely wireless :D We definitely want to see mk2 in action.
I could see real use for this kind of tech combined with abs. But for trail I'd like some kind of force feedback. So propably this will never brake it mainstream :P
You and your batteries die and the same time. lol 🤣
Amazing! The knowledge you gained on your own and applied it to make it real! Keep engineering Blake! You just made the unfeasible, feasible, what a legend
What an undertaking! Excellent ideas. You're most of the way there. Finding a way to increase modulation and reduce sensitivity sounds like the next challenge. Definitely want to see a MkII version.
Blakes "Frankenbrakes" are pretty cool! We need to hear Blake Scream, "Give my breaks life!"
Fantastic! I love the prototype can do spirit behind all of this. Well done.
Blake, if you're gonna struggle with the soullessness of the feel of levers then research this: "Load cell". In Sim racing it does wonders on brake pedals because data comes from the amount of pressure/load applied rather than travel of the lever.
This is absolutely brilliant. Definitely need to see the mark 2 done. Well done Blake 👏👏👏
Brilliant and fun. Definitely need a part 2.
You are slowly Stepping into 3D printing territory Blake, I bet you would love it!
Nice work as always mate, check out the settings for your transmitter (the thing on the brake lever), some have the option to set "expo", meaning the servo will ramp up in throw, the further you actuate it.
Amazing video! Looking forward to the second version; it's bound to be even better! 👍
Amazing job, Blake! Thinking outside the box is how we move forward.
This is amazing Blake. I haven't read all the comments but I hope you have a patent and are getting calls from SRAM! You need to get paid!
I’ve had this idea for years , but never thought I’d see this made !😮
Negative expo is your friend to tune out the sensitivity from the levers. Not sure if your choice of radio transmitter has that option but that will be the way to go - that’s what we do when we are doing high speed runs on overpowered RC cars that can go well over 200kph. Just like driving a RC car, you develop the sense of “brake feel” over time. Great proof of concept Blake! Even at your otherworldly skill level - please stay safe!!!
Awesome job Blake! I am into RC for over 20 yrs and seen a lot of RC planes with rc operated brakes. Was thinking how to transform this idea into MTB. Thise TRP brakes solved the missing link :) never seen them before.
If you are for Version 2.0 think about - modulation (different spring rate for controller lever), servo throw (exponential rate on controller) - it's the same as if you'd use Sram lever on Shimano caliper...
However the best usage would be on Spectral:ON and those servos be powered from the main battery via USB port - this would solve possible run out of battery scenarios when riding.
❤ props for your work!
TRP brakes are amazingly durable and eliminate allllll of the faffing about with brake bleeding etc needed for full hydro brakes. I have commented numerous times on GCN about how outstanding they are. Got no traction or comments back from presenters as they are not sponsored kit. I am a Clydesdale rider and if they can stop me from mid 20 mph range, they are not to be sneezed at. Run them on mountain and road bikes. Top it all of with, they are cheap..like the budgie!
Congrats Blake, that's absolutely amazing 🤯. You made that look too easy. 🎉🥳
Awesome creation and shows your talent beyond just riding.
I made my custom 36er bike with zero cable stops in anticipation of a future wireless braking system,. I'm ready! It already has a SRAM Eagle AXS rear derailleur.
Another pearler! 😂
Absolute madness…
You could change the pull ratio on the servo arm to change the modulation… the closer the cable is fastened to the servo output shaft, the slower and smaller the stroke of the caliper, it will increase the maximum pressure the servo can deliver to the caliper too 👍
Can’t wait to see v2 😊
Would love to see a mk.II! This might be the best Blake Builds video yet!
Blake, to solve the modulation issue you can add springs at the lever and between the servo and the caliper (it will transform the position control you have on the servo into a force modulation). And with the right spring rates combination between the one at the lever an the one at the caliper you could achieve a feel almost identical to the one you would get with a cable between the lever and the caliper.
This, without the lockout, is exactly what I have wanted for years. Yes to the MkII
As a rear brake only system, i could dig this. Some force feedback on the lever, like the ps5 controller triggers and the front brake staying hydraulic through the stem. Bar spins and tailwhips for on the mountain bike!
Next level: pressure sensors behind the calipers which feeds back data to the force feedback levers for excellent feel.
LOL not to surprised to see this, But blown away you did it ! and in your garage ! Well Done ! Lets hope Shimano watches GMBN . Wont be too soon!
Best GMBM video in a loooooooong time. Well done.
this is the content I come to GMBN for!!!
Love how you guys know how to play around with technical stuff too, rather than only ride bicycles in inhuman fashion. Never expected or even thought of this stuff LOL
As an RC enthusiast, big thumbs up!
Super cool proof of concept. I expect a Super refined version will become reality on top spec bikes in the next few years but I'm less convinced it will become mainstream for at least another 10+ years.
I'd love a full cableless cockpit. I have no doubt that if and when wireless brakes come out, the lever feel will be the biggest selling point from one company to another. That will take the most R&D to get right, IMO.
In thinking some more about it. These would be awesome on something like a tri bike- whether hands are in aero or on the hoods you can shift your electronic gears or, coming into a turn, apply the brakes no matter your hand position. This can be great.
100% need a Mk 2 - BBW is definitely the way ahead - cable-less is the future, just need to find a way to program in brake feel into it, great effort Blake!
Woooow amazing Blake! This is the next component to pass to Wireless like the AXS ...
I think everybody wanted to see this madness. :) You now have validated the concept, I expect this to be on market by industry leaders within 4 years, in about 8 years it is mainstream, and in about 12 years it is the standard. I have been wrong about many things, so don't take my word for it. :D Still: such a clean bar. :)
Depending on what radio system you're using, you could use a single transmitter on the bars and use a separate channel for each brake. That would result in one less battery. A faster servo would probably help, something that can mimic the same speed as you pulling the lever. This was really cool and probably a lot of fun to build.
@gmbn for the mk2 use a higher quality radio at the lever end. This will allow you to fine tune the servo travel via the 'end point' setting. That way the full 'lever' stroke will only move the servo the specified amount creating a larger window of modulation.
Instead of using the servo to pull the cable, use a strong spring to do that. Then, use the servo to actually *release* the brake. That way the system is fail safe, so if there's no power or the servo breaks, it applies the brake.
I am not sure what is worse - sudden loss of brakes or sudden uncommanded braking.
@@piast99 Good point. Perhaps you could have different systems for the front/rear wheel. Use fail safe at the back, but not at the front. (so it won't send you otb on power failure)
Awesome effort Blake. A little spacer inserted to stop the rear lever dropping and locking up should help. Phase 2, absolutely give it a go. I still want to see Crab phase 2. You could call it the lobster. 😎👍
Amazing video Blake, version 2 or wireless brakes 2.0 yes please, would be great to see a more compact version on bikes in shops in the future, something maybe to charge from the spin of the wheel, no battery maybe. Loved this video and idea(cableless/fully wireless bike)!
I was just thinking about this the other day, with all the wireless shifting we have now. Maybe the big brands are also doing in secret. 😊 would be sick to see it all and improved! Wireless and clean cockpit!!!
Great job! Maybe try making the levers longer. It'll help with the modulation I think...
This is hilarious! Here's an idea though for the feel of the levers:
What if you put a stiff spring on the lever and adjusted the trim of the servo to match the progression of the spring so it wouldn't be so touchy and lock up?
Maybe even make like a stop to to where you can trim out the servo for your specific body weight.
Very impressive Blake! your Build skills are impressive.
Hi, you could stop the popping of the controler by making the lever longer and puting there a spring facing outwards. The spring would push the lever out and it would also make a little bit of modulation posible. I thing that you could use suspencion from RC micro crawlers. I hope you make a part 2 and sorry for gramatics.
If you get a transmitter that lets you add an expo curve on the channel you're using to control the brake lever, then you could maybe use that to fine tune the modulation
Legendary Blake Builds! Let's see Mk2
I'm currently running an rc system I made for my electric paddle board on my e8000, electronics were toast so I wired an rc helicopter speed controller directly to the motor then I used a cable brake lever to operate the transmitter which is in my bar bag, 6s brick size battery in a tank bag works surprisingly well!
I like how “wireless” in this context actually means adding a lot of wires
Keep going on a mark 2 please. Imagine how clean an AXS or Di2 bike would be with wireless brakes. No need for finicky internal cable/hose routing!! Mind blown.
Such a sick creation I think giving it to sam pilgrim would be the ultimate test for them
this is revolutionary.
please continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He who dares, wins.
Blake is winning right now 😊👌
Brilliant concept do a second version i reckon your onto something big and manufactures should take note on what youve produced
Blakes brakes 💪✊️😉
I think a good idea to address the modulation issue would be to use a weight scale sensor/load cell (someone else mentioned that too), which does not have (to my knowledge) any moving parts. This way the break levers will be stiff and you could modulate the brakes purely by force applied.
It will definitely become a thing in the next few years as brands start making and testing them until they are fully trustworthy. Nice job managing to make that work
proper Mad Professor vibes - awesome work, Blake!
This is amazing
When I first saw the teaser on Instagram, I was skeptical. I thought how is an RC servo going to provide enough torque to pull a cable actuated brake? Then you pull out these cable actuated hydro calipers. I didn't even know that was a thing. The way you pulled the guts from an RC remote and then fabbed it all together is amazing. I cant believe you rode with them down those trails. You must have rode them long enough around the neighborhood first to build some confidence. That would be freaky to not have the finger feedback. As others said though, you can probably add a stiff spring and that would give the similar feedback. This was a realy cool video. Nice job Blake.