*Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:25 - Cue Pointing Trick 2:00 - Stance Fundamentals 2:47 - Testing Your Stance and Stroke 4:24 - Natural Stroking Plane 5:10 - Personal Best Stance 6:32 - Large Belly or Chest 7:34 - Shoulder Position 8:44 - Vertical Forearm 10:02 - More Info *Supporting Resources:* - stance advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/advice/ - stroke technique advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/ - vision center resources: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/ - stop shot control advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stun/stop/ - “How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance“ video: ruclips.net/video/Uqw5sCEx190/видео.html -“Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach” video: ruclips.net/video/0Ay9OXnbzsM/видео.html - “AIM MORE ACCURATELY by Finding Your Ideal Personal VISION CENTER ” video: ruclips.net/video/5vgY89yDrjE/видео.html - pool physical therapy and exercise advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/ *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's RUclips Channel:* ruclips.net/user/DrDaveBilliards
This is the first time I've seen someone teach how to find your natural swing without actually using a cue. I think my swinging is the most significant inconsistency in my game. Now that I've found my natural swing I see that it's nowhere near any of the previous mechanics I've used. Putting it to use in my league match tonight. BTW you have my vote for the billiards hall of fame.
@DrDaveBilliards the natural swing is a game changer!!!! 😁 so.... last night was the first time where I was _consciously_ using my natural swing and the difference was HUGE!!! Before I was forcing or manually putting my cue on the line of my center vision and that causes some inconsistencies in the stroke. I was using my right ankle to aim. So I would make sure the butt was going through my right ankle and the tip was going to the rail through my object ball. But that is nowhere near my natural swing. My natural swing is like yours where it's completely outside of my body. So you can see how forcing my aim to the inside of my body will cause some wobble during the stroke. When you use your natural swing and then move your center vision over the cue it gives you one less thing to think about when aiming. Now I know my stroke will be straight on every shot so I just have to focus on aiming and speed. Well in a best out of 3 match I won the first two games and I had 7 ball runs in both of them. I put the pressure on him both games and he couldn't recover. The natural swing especially helps when using inside English. I was successful on all the inside English shots I took during the match. And by Successful I mean my speed/position was perfect. I played a guy who normally gets the best of me. I probably have beaten him 3x out of maybe 10 or so over the 20 years I've been playing in this league. This league (motor City pool league) is basically like beer league softball but with 8 ball so it's not a sanctioned league and we play with modified APA rules. So basically just a hangout and have fun league during the winter.
It’s good even for seasoned players to go over this basic stuff. I’ve been playing around my stance lately. I’m not as comfortable in my old stance anymore. Love all of these Pool 101 videos.
@EliteComments-w7s Autistic isn’t an excuse for being a jackass, TBH. You know how many people get reasonably good at pool (or any other sport), and just always stay at that level? It happens all the time. I play with guys that are APA 7’s, and they’re exactly as good as they were 20 years ago. They never improved. They never improved because once they got decent, all they ever did was play games. Never shot drills. Never reinforced fundamentals. Guys that 20 years ago used to beat me fairly consistent, and nowadays I stomp em, because I do work on stuff as much as I can. So, while you may feel the comment wasn’t necessary, I’m not talking to you. I’m talking to everyone else, that just goes and bangs balls around in the local leagues.
It definitely is, especially when your body changes or you have shoulder issues. The only tricky part is doing that with no mirrors in front of you or a device big enough (that can fit on the table or somewhere close enough) that has a camera such that you can see yourself.
Another great video, Dr Dave, with impeccable timing too! Stance is something I've been working on recently (reworking my fundamentals). Also, I accept your apology for the air bag sequence. I was definitely offended by how excited I became. I do, however, appreciate that you helped me correct my vision center to your eyes. Thanks for the knowledge and the laughs!
Yes I'm in the same boat as you are as far as stance. Finding and using my natural swing or stroking plane has made a HUGE difference in my stroke!!! I shot amazing last night!!
This is refreshing to watch instruction that is for each personal player instead of a my way or highway approach. Having attended courses around the world, to understand the reasons for the adjustments and pass those on to each player as needed, ensures more comfort and ability to adjust towards what is natural for the shooter. Good work Dr. Dave!
Thank you. Doc! Because of my advanced age and physical limitations I'm going to work on changing my stance to avoid straining my neck and lower lumbar. I really appreciate all the pointers. After about 50 years of playing it's going to be hard to adjust to a new stance. Luckily I have a table at my access.I really do Appreciate all the helpful pointers you have given me through the years. I really do love the game and I'm trying to play as long as possible! Peace
@DrDaveBilliards thank you so much I will! I wish you great success in your realm , however you define that! Thanks again Doc! Hope you have a great New Year!
My unintended left spin can be attributed to an inward tucked elbow exactly as you described at 9:15, especially on power strokes. This is very helpful to self-diagnose stroke flaws 👏
When watched without volume and without context, sections of this are downright hilarious! Especially with the facial expressions :-). Thanks for another great contribution to this wonderful sport!
@ well I knew what was going on.. but my wife doesn’t watch your videos…She walked in and after a little while said out loud “What the heck is this guy doing?” We had a good laugh! As far as it being a great contribution… Well, it goes without saying, if you’re the author of the video!
I have a book about Golf and how the "proper" stance and swing was based on copying an aspect Ben Hogan, then Palmer, then Nicklaus et al. They played great, therefore, you must have to swing like they do, stand like they do. The author's point was that Tiger Woods came along and didn't do any of those things. As you point out, there are some basic principles required to swing a cue in a straight line, but the vast majority of what you "must do" is just like the assumptions of the "correct" golf stance and swing. It's also interesting how snooker players tend to use a far more open stance than pool players.
FYI, I discuss some reasons for the snooker stance here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/snooker/ One reason I considered opening my stance originally (and using an open bridge exclusively) is I liked watching and had respect for top snooker players.
Excellent showing how to deal with stance when having a different body shape. (that would be my question if you had not) Best advice indeed is forget about the standards repeated in so many other video's and books. Because the best stance is the stance in which someone can comfortably deliver the cue in a perfect straight line, which is very depending on many individual factors. If I teach someone I look at what works best for this individual based on his/her physique. If your young, flexible, in perfect health, perfect eyes and vision, with optimal body proportions, the common standard stance is fine. But every deviation to that, can require an adapted stance. And for some people even the vision center can deviate day by day.
In my case, 20 years ago I kept my chin on the cue and would have my head straight that way as well. Also, walked in on the shot with my front foot on the aim line and didn't really twist it. Nowadays, my vision center has shifted, and I started to notice on pictures that my head would be angled to automatically adjust, and it brought inconsistencies with it. Also, keeping my foot straight on the aimline brought a slight error to the right. Now I've adjusted my chin position so my head is straight again, and I recalibrated the twist in my foot so my hips are shifted a tiny bit more, and the slight error is gone. I think in many cases you can't use the exact same technique your entire life.
@@Faxie83 Thank you for sharing your experiences. Do you know why your vision center shifted? Did you eyes (or vision correction) change a lot over the years?
for me this is your most helpful video yet.. every instructional video about stance that i’ve seen insists that the back foot has to be on the shot line.. as a tall, lanky guy like you i’ve been working a lot on my stance trying to use that method but often find myself trying to twist or contort my body to make it work… i’m going to try your open stance tomorrow and not obsess over my foot being perfectly on the shot line… thanks dr. dave!
@@ruins7025 You’re welcome. I’ve been planning this video for a while. I’m also pleased with how it came out. Sometimes it is difficult being the director, lighting supervisor, cameraman, and demonstrator all at the same time, especially when I’m worried about showing too much cleavage. 🫢
The breakfromlife snooker video's and shortstoponpool also adress the individual's need for foot placement. I myself am a firm believer of the shot line, but only as a reference. It's a location that's always the same, and you can figure out the required adjustment and how to best adress it from there with some practice and experiments.
When I started playing Pool, I always have my left leg forward and my right leg at the back. I was struggling with straight shots. I just couldn't hit the cue ball straight. When I tried making my legs parallel to each other, my stroke suddenly became straight. I can finally make straight shots much much better. It was a magical revelation to me, it's mind blowing. I'm still a beginner so I still can't make 10 stop ball straight shots in a row, but changing my stance surely improved my game and made me enjoy the game more. Stance surely is super important.
@@josefernandez4423 Opening my stance many years ago also helped my accuracy. The main thing it did for me was help me get my head in the correct position with my face square to the shot. This allowed me to see the shot line more accurately. For more info, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
I'm not so sure that his stance was even due to his size. It seems that most of the players from the era when straight pool was the dominant game shot with a very upright type stance.
@@abrehamhaile4976 His “unique technique” is “special” only for him. What he does with his arm during normal shots is definitely not considered “best practices.” But if you work on something long and hard enough, any consistent technique “specialness” can be mastered.
been trying to fix this stroke i have where i have a very slight tip to the right. i still haven't figured it out yet, but i notice that when i shoot at the top of the cb i shoot straight (basing it from the full table center test). i found this video where it said that your elbow should be aligned with the stroke just like Ko Pin Yi, and it was making me strained and twitchy. i thought i needed to learn to do that with a mirror. thank you for clearing it up that the stance is really different per person.
@DrDaveBilliards I'm so grateful you didn't decide not to post the chest part. That was easily my favorite part. It was a struggle to look you in the eyes.
I'm 6'-2"tall, wide shoulders, cross dominant eye, wear glasses and age 65. Fortunately I have no orthopedic issues. Been working on nothing but finding my stroke for almost 2 years now. I spend hours setting up nothing but long diagonal shots (8' table) and try to spear them in with a medium firm stroke, just looking for my natural groove. The progress comes slow because my natural talent level is mediocre but there is some progress. Some nights I begin to find it and other nights it's gone. I find it necessary on long shots to "rifle sight" it, which means getting my head as low as possible to come as close as possible to superimposing the 2 balls like the front & rear sights on a rifle. But I find I can't keep my head that low in the shot because my arm is folded too close to my upper body, the arm & shoulder joints must bend at more extreme angles and my cue hand hits my torso. And I have no belly or other protuberances, I'm lean and flat. I've noticed Efren Reyes lifts his head on nearly every shot. It looks like he's getting his sight picture with his head low on the practice strokes and just as he makes the backstroke for the delivery he raises his upper body and head slightly and delivers the stroke. When he misses a shot sometimes the commentators call out that he stood up on the shot. I've noticed he does that on practically every shot and sometimes it is more pronounced and possibly contributes to a rare miss. I've also noticed SVB swings his right elbow out slightly on every shot. His practice strokes keep the elbow perfectly in line, then at the top of the final backstroke he swings the elbow out as he delivers the stroke. These high talent individuals have naturally grooved their flaws, and this is a known thing in other sports such as golf where there have been some unorthodox swings at the highest performing levels. For now I evaluate myself on nothing more than my own feel feedback. My errors are combinations of aim & stroke and I can often feel which of the two it was more of. I have strokes that felt good with aim error being the culprit and vice versa. I find when I get comfortably loose my stroke will go out the window. I cannot let the cue rest loosely in the fingers of my shooting hand like a pro does. I must keep the cue up in the palm with the hand in a mild fist. I will sometimes start "shooting good", then my hand gets comfortably loose, then I get "wristy" and suddenly the stroke goes out the window, and I must discipline my grip to get the stroke back. Another thing I must do is wear a visor. I have strong lighting over my table, as it should be. The eyes have a much easier time focusing when the light from above is blocked and only the light reflecting off the playing surface reaches the eyes. This is not just my eyes, this is true for everybody's eyes whether or not they realize it. I am amazed at how none of the pros use a visor, except maybe U.J. Puckett with his wide brim hat. I've seen some wear a ball cap backwards (and the guy aint bald). Personally, I would turn that visor forward and use it. I don't pull it down low on my forehead, I adjust it so the entire table is in view and the light fixtures are blocked when my head is down over the table.
I think the key to consistent shot-making is to repeat the stance that works for you for every single shot. And that's also the hardest thing in Pool. I'm convinced that 90% of my misses are down to bad stance and alignment, not aiming.
@@Erich_U Well stated. Consistency is the key. A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine helps with this: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/pre-shot-routine/best-practices/
@DrDaveBilliards .....i teach this stuff too.....but sometimes you need a starting point 🤣 ! I really appreciate your helping videos, i m a Student of the game , but..... pool is my happy Island, the 3 -4 hour in the pool hall one Millimeter ( spin , aiming etc.) Is the biggest Problem i have.....outside the pool hall , normally , one Millimeter is not a big Deal 😉 ! Thanks again
That would be fun. I might need to get more balls! The biggest rack I've done to date is 45: ruclips.net/video/vv4XwOKgnpw/видео.html It wasn't easy. 66 or 78 might be out of my league.
@@DrDaveBilliards I don't think anything is ever out of your league, you're a great 8 ball pool player. Also your first mulligan on the 55 ball runout was slightly funny.
It's interesting because when you adjust yourself to the conventional shoulder alignment, you look a lot more like the typical pro pool player. Obviously there are always anatomical exceptions to the rules. Mohammed Soufi shoots with the elbow tucked in, a habit which he apparently picked up from starting at such a young age that he couldn't reach the table. Karen Corr uses the more open stance to accommodate for her larger chest. John Morra also comes to mind when you mention that you have discomfort in the conventional stance. He famously had to switch handedness due to years of neck and back strain (also in part due to being a righty with left eye dominant cue alignment).
dr dave can you recommend a system of how to approach different lays of balls when playing games? i just thought to ask this to someone in a game of short rack 8 ball at the moment. what variables in shot taking should i start deciding on first if im taking this direction with things? hard/soft speed? location of impact on the cue ball? bridge type/length? is this an effective system to consider for a player? thank you 🙏
@@video-junkie2 See the videos and other resources here when you have some free time (ideally, lots of free time): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/strategy/8-ball/ billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/strategy/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/safety/strategy/ Enjoy!
@@someara That’s the standard headwear for Doofus Dave. He has appeared on other videos also, whenever I need demonstrations of the bad ways to do things.
I'm not sure if it's due to being right handed/left eye dominant, having arms the length of someone who is around 6'3 despite being 5'10 😂, or some other factor that I haven't identified but a stance with my torso and shoulders turned like an archer seems to be what works best for me and allows a natural pendulum stroke without having to force any correction to prevent pronating. I came across this stance while watching ShortStopOnPool's (Bob Keller) video titled "How to Shoot Straight"; it was what he recommended and seems to be my best fit!
@@procrastinator6902 That is a good approach for some people, but it can create lots of neck strain and tension for others, especially those trying to get their face square to the shot (which has advantages).
my theory is play the tough shots MANY times until you get the low percentage (but very makeable) ones a high percentage of the time. if you are doing this, your body will naturally follow. Yesterday I did frame by frame on a Kyren Wilson long draw shot. on the last delivery his elbow was raised significantly and his head raised quite a bit too. Point here is obsessing with good technique can be a hindrance.
Kyren has worked on his technique a lot over the years. This is the case with many great players, always striving to improve. But you are right, hard work and lots of practice are the most important elements of success.
@@bensonliang4702 Good point. I should have probably discussed this some. A straighter arm does help with aiming since it allows you to see more of the cue in front of you.
I also have left eye dominance as a right handed player. Rotating my shoulders more (as in being more angled to the shot as opposed to being more square to it like Dr Dave's stance is) seems to help with this and I don't experience any pain at all. Look up a picture of Ko Pin Yi while he is down on a shot to see a good example of what I mean.
@@DrDaveBilliards The thing is, if it would work from the start, I'd never chase the idiomatic book stance, which I couldn't care less about. The issue is that you find something that is natural for your line of aim but not for your legs or shoulders. Than you find something decent but it doesn't work for some shots in particular zones of the table. Than something gives you a better potting but it's forced and hurts your body quickly, etc, etc... Sometimes I just want to quit, lol, because every change sets you back for a month and you throw away matches that you could've easily won before. Thank for the stellar content, as usual!
@DrDaveBilliards Thank You for Your videos.. they have definitely gave me different perspectives of the game.. for real.. but yesterday, when I seen you Stuff Your Shirt.. I about fell out of my chair laughing.. keep up the good work.. Your vids are freaking awesome...
On your stance segment you stroke that straight shot but your hand grabs the stick and wobble a bit in your follow through. It is short stroked, or poked almost.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight I don’t think I am tightening my grip, but I will check. I vary my stroke length with the speed of the shot. The “Low and Slow” stop shot only requires about 1/3 of my stroke. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/
@@DrDaveBilliards I was able to see it in the video facing you. You grip the stick as you stroke more than you should perhaps. and that gripping caused the wobbling. It did not seem to affect your shot though, but the slight right roll you showed may be the natural lean of that issue. I spent most of my life with a tighter than most grip, and have now relaxed it, but my stroke is not always pure either. Just like my quest for whirled peas, I also seek a co-linear stroke arm. I am retired and near broke, but Denver and a stop by your school is on my bucket list. A certain Peruvian lake and a meeting with a particular Shaman down there is also on it.
@ Thank you for the suggestions. My grip is closed, and it certainly looks tight in the video (partly because my hands are bony without much flesh), but I don’t think my grip tightened during those strokes. When I tighten my grip, my cue usually doesn’t finish straight. I think the slight cue wobble is due to the cue deflection and vibration caused by the hit at the very low tip position. I think the close-up camera view also makes the wobble look exaggerated.
@@DrDaveBilliards Maybe you were tightening it to pull back as in your short stroke method. So it was not in your shot stroke, but in the drawback of the cue.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight My back grip hand fingers definitely open during the backstroke and close during the forward stroke (as they should), but the grip pressure is not tightening (as it should not).
I think everything in this video applies to people of all heights. Being shorter actually offers advantages with the normal stance. You don't need to bend down a ridiculous amount like I need to (being 6'3").
Dance your stance for sure. I line up all the balls then keep my eyeballs square to the shot ... proper landing is better than many practice strokes. Moving forward only... players assume they don't need to fix anything ever. One thing at a time. Grip stance and stroke are good place to calibrate
@DrDaveBilliards LMAO. I appreciate the video! We've had a table at home for a few months and after I watch them, I send them to my wife so she can up her game. You're the man around here!
@ You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear it. Please let me know what your wife thinks about my “cleavage scene.” My wife didn’t approve, but I left it in anyway.
@DrDaveBilliards she chuckled because...well, it applies. I've been trying to get her in alignment similar to my stance but that has been a constant complaint of hers. I didn't consider that I don't have the obstructions that she has lol.
Dang! And here I thought my stance attitude was perfect. Which is select the stance that best matches the shot each time, and become adept at good stroking with any of those stances. This one has worked, but only came close this time. Still better than the behind the back dopes. Usually I just switch and shoot left handed. ruclips.net/video/-Hfvttv-u8M/видео.html
@@aleksus34 Which one? If you are referring to my “personal best stance,” I explain it in detail in the other two videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/
AMAZING video. As a 56 year old newbie this is EXACTLY what I’ve been looking for … and I really enjoy hearing a ‘pro’ tell me it’s okay if my stance is not old school textbook. However, I have one question that I need answered. After I get in my position and down on the ball … what STARTS the backstroke. I’ve read it’s not supposed to be my hand pulling the cue back so is it the sensation of my forearm moving back? One of my bigger flaws is cupping the wrist on long shots so I’m just trying to find a move that keeps my wrist flat for the entire time. Thanks and thanks again for a great video.
I’m glad you found the video helpful. Concerning the backstroke, you are right that it should be driven by forearm motion, with the grip hand and wrist as relaxed as possible. For more more info and help on this, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:25 - Cue Pointing Trick
2:00 - Stance Fundamentals
2:47 - Testing Your Stance and Stroke
4:24 - Natural Stroking Plane
5:10 - Personal Best Stance
6:32 - Large Belly or Chest
7:34 - Shoulder Position
8:44 - Vertical Forearm
10:02 - More Info
*Supporting Resources:*
- stance advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/advice/
- stroke technique advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
- vision center resources: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
- stop shot control advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stun/stop/
- “How to Find the Perfect Pool/Snooker/Billiards Stance“ video: ruclips.net/video/Uqw5sCEx190/видео.html
-“Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach” video: ruclips.net/video/0Ay9OXnbzsM/видео.html
- “AIM MORE ACCURATELY by Finding Your Ideal Personal VISION CENTER
” video: ruclips.net/video/5vgY89yDrjE/видео.html
- pool physical therapy and exercise advice: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/exercise/
*Subscribe to Dr. Dave's RUclips Channel:*
ruclips.net/user/DrDaveBilliards
Dr. Dave you're a GOAT. I have learned so much from you. Always grateful for what you have to offer and would love to meet you one day.
Thank you! I’m glad to hear it. I hope we meet someday also.
Make sure you vote for him for the billiards hall of fame!!
@@ThePrufessa Again, that is kind of you to suggest. Thank you.
@DrDaveBilliards you deserve it buddy!
The “lock and loading” of the shoulder was the exact advice I needed! Thanks a ton, Dr Dave
I'm glad to hear it. You're welcome.
Lock and Load!
This is the first time I've seen someone teach how to find your natural swing without actually using a cue. I think my swinging is the most significant inconsistency in my game. Now that I've found my natural swing I see that it's nowhere near any of the previous mechanics I've used. Putting it to use in my league match tonight.
BTW you have my vote for the billiards hall of fame.
I'm glad to hear you are putting the video to good use. I hope it helps. Thanks for the kind words.
@DrDaveBilliards the natural swing is a game changer!!!! 😁
so.... last night was the first time where I was _consciously_ using my natural swing and the difference was HUGE!!! Before I was forcing or manually putting my cue on the line of my center vision and that causes some inconsistencies in the stroke. I was using my right ankle to aim. So I would make sure the butt was going through my right ankle and the tip was going to the rail through my object ball. But that is nowhere near my natural swing. My natural swing is like yours where it's completely outside of my body. So you can see how forcing my aim to the inside of my body will cause some wobble during the stroke.
When you use your natural swing and then move your center vision over the cue it gives you one less thing to think about when aiming. Now I know my stroke will be straight on every shot so I just have to focus on aiming and speed.
Well in a best out of 3 match I won the first two games and I had 7 ball runs in both of them. I put the pressure on him both games and he couldn't recover. The natural swing especially helps when using inside English. I was successful on all the inside English shots I took during the match. And by Successful I mean my speed/position was perfect.
I played a guy who normally gets the best of me. I probably have beaten him 3x out of maybe 10 or so over the 20 years I've been playing in this league. This league (motor City pool league) is basically like beer league softball but with 8 ball so it's not a sanctioned league and we play with modified APA rules. So basically just a hangout and have fun league during the winter.
@@ThePrufessa Thank you for sharing your success story. I’m glad the video helped.
@DrDaveBilliards the natural swinging plane makes a WORLD of difference!! I will be teaching it to my team at our next practice!!!
@ I hope it helps the entire team!
"My eyes are up here" I was crying 😂😂😂
I'm glad you got a chuckle out of my "cleavage scene."
It was the “offended OR excited” in Dave’s naturally serious tone for me😭
@@CODlogist I'm glad my carefully chosen and spoken words were effective. 😉
Each time I try to figure something out, the Doc drops a video on the subject. No kidding! Thanks Doc! Appreciate everything you share with us! 🙏🏼
@@JerryLee.. You’re welcome. I’m glad the timing was good. I’ve wanted to do this video for a very long time.
Finally, somebody who tells it like it really is.
Not just repeats the PBA mantra.
Way to go, Dave
DAM straight! :)
Although, I am a proud PBIA Instructor.
It’s good even for seasoned players to go over this basic stuff. I’ve been playing around my stance lately. I’m not as comfortable in my old stance anymore. Love all of these Pool 101 videos.
Agreed. This sort of thing can help players at all levels, especially if they current stance is causing physical issues.
@EliteComments-w7s I aim to swerve. 🤓
@EliteComments-w7s Understood. No problem.
@EliteComments-w7s Autistic isn’t an excuse for being a jackass, TBH. You know how many people get reasonably good at pool (or any other sport), and just always stay at that level? It happens all the time. I play with guys that are APA 7’s, and they’re exactly as good as they were 20 years ago. They never improved. They never improved because once they got decent, all they ever did was play games. Never shot drills. Never reinforced fundamentals. Guys that 20 years ago used to beat me fairly consistent, and nowadays I stomp em, because I do work on stuff as much as I can. So, while you may feel the comment wasn’t necessary, I’m not talking to you. I’m talking to everyone else, that just goes and bangs balls around in the local leagues.
It definitely is, especially when your body changes or you have shoulder issues.
The only tricky part is doing that with no mirrors in front of you or a device big enough (that can fit on the table or somewhere close enough) that has a camera such that you can see yourself.
Another great video, Dr Dave, with impeccable timing too! Stance is something I've been working on recently (reworking my fundamentals).
Also, I accept your apology for the air bag sequence. I was definitely offended by how excited I became. I do, however, appreciate that you helped me correct my vision center to your eyes.
Thanks for the knowledge and the laughs!
I'm glad you liked both my timing and my cleavage! 🤭
Yes I'm in the same boat as you are as far as stance. Finding and using my natural swing or stroking plane has made a HUGE difference in my stroke!!! I shot amazing last night!!
Excellent video Dr. Dave!
Thanks! I have been thinking about this one and wanting to do it for a long time.
This is refreshing to watch instruction that is for each personal player instead of a my way or highway approach. Having attended courses around the world, to understand the reasons for the adjustments and pass those on to each player as needed, ensures more comfort and ability to adjust towards what is natural for the shooter. Good work Dr. Dave!
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks!
Thank you. Doc! Because of my advanced age and physical limitations I'm going to work on changing my stance to avoid straining my neck and lower lumbar. I really appreciate all the pointers. After about 50 years of playing it's going to be hard to adjust to a new stance. Luckily I have a table at my access.I really do Appreciate all the helpful pointers you have given me through the years. I really do love the game and I'm trying to play as long as possible! Peace
I'm glad you found the video and some of my other stuff useful. I hope you can enjoy the game for many more years to come.
@DrDaveBilliards thank you so much I will! I wish you great success in your realm , however you define that! Thanks again Doc! Hope you have a great New Year!
My unintended left spin can be attributed to an inward tucked elbow exactly as you described at 9:15, especially on power strokes. This is very helpful to self-diagnose stroke flaws 👏
@@maxlahoud I’m glad you found it helpful.
Phenomenal work! Finding the natural stroking plane with loaded shoulder is the key. Thank you Dr. Dave!
@Arnie.Y Thanks. Lock and Load!
When watched without volume and without context, sections of this are downright hilarious! Especially with the facial expressions :-). Thanks for another great contribution to this wonderful sport!
How do you know it is a "great contribution" if you didn't have the volume on? ! 😅
Regardless, Thank you!
@ well I knew what was going on.. but my wife doesn’t watch your videos…She walked in and after a little while said out loud “What the heck is this guy doing?” We had a good laugh!
As far as it being a great contribution… Well, it goes without saying, if you’re the author of the video!
@@vpschroeder Thanks again!
Thank you! best channel ever
You're welcome, and thank you!
My pool intructor directed me to your channel, and glad he did :D
I'm glad to hear it. Please thank him for me.
I have a book about Golf and how the "proper" stance and swing was based on copying an aspect Ben Hogan, then Palmer, then Nicklaus et al. They played great, therefore, you must have to swing like they do, stand like they do. The author's point was that Tiger Woods came along and didn't do any of those things. As you point out, there are some basic principles required to swing a cue in a straight line, but the vast majority of what you "must do" is just like the assumptions of the "correct" golf stance and swing. It's also interesting how snooker players tend to use a far more open stance than pool players.
FYI, I discuss some reasons for the snooker stance here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/snooker/
One reason I considered opening my stance originally (and using an open bridge exclusively) is I liked watching and had respect for top snooker players.
As a barrel-chested man with a belly to boot, I both laughed and applauded the pillow sections! 🤣
I'm glad you liked it, and I hope it helps.
Excellent showing how to deal with stance when having a different body shape. (that would be my question if you had not)
Best advice indeed is forget about the standards repeated in so many other video's and books. Because the best stance is the stance in which someone can comfortably deliver the cue in a perfect straight line, which is very depending on many individual factors. If I teach someone I look at what works best for this individual based on his/her physique.
If your young, flexible, in perfect health, perfect eyes and vision, with optimal body proportions, the common standard stance is fine. But every deviation to that, can require an adapted stance. And for some people even the vision center can deviate day by day.
Thank you for the supportive comments and for sharing your perspective.
In my case, 20 years ago I kept my chin on the cue and would have my head straight that way as well. Also, walked in on the shot with my front foot on the aim line and didn't really twist it. Nowadays, my vision center has shifted, and I started to notice on pictures that my head would be angled to automatically adjust, and it brought inconsistencies with it. Also, keeping my foot straight on the aimline brought a slight error to the right. Now I've adjusted my chin position so my head is straight again, and I recalibrated the twist in my foot so my hips are shifted a tiny bit more, and the slight error is gone. I think in many cases you can't use the exact same technique your entire life.
@@Faxie83 Thank you for sharing your experiences. Do you know why your vision center shifted? Did you eyes (or vision correction) change a lot over the years?
@@DrDaveBilliards Yeah, my right eye got worse over the years
@@Faxie83 Thanks for replying. That explains it.
More good info from Dr. Dave, watch U-Tube several times, pray twice until you are prefect.
Thanks Coco. "Pray twice?"
for me this is your most helpful video yet.. every instructional video about stance that i’ve seen insists that the back foot has to be on the shot line.. as a tall, lanky guy like you i’ve been working a lot on my stance trying to use that method but often find myself trying to twist or contort my body to make it work… i’m going to try your open stance tomorrow and not obsess over my foot being perfectly on the shot line… thanks dr. dave!
@@ruins7025 You’re welcome. I’ve been planning this video for a while. I’m also pleased with how it came out. Sometimes it is difficult being the director, lighting supervisor, cameraman, and demonstrator all at the same time, especially when I’m worried about showing too much cleavage. 🫢
@@DrDaveBilliards Well, then that dress you were sporting was terrible. :-)
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight Yeah. I need to fire my wardrobe guy. 🤓
The breakfromlife snooker video's and shortstoponpool also adress the individual's need for foot placement. I myself am a firm believer of the shot line, but only as a reference. It's a location that's always the same, and you can figure out the required adjustment and how to best adress it from there with some practice and experiments.
@@Faxie83 FYI, I also have many more videos dealing with the stance under the subtopic links here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/
When I started playing Pool, I always have my left leg forward and my right leg at the back. I was struggling with straight shots. I just couldn't hit the cue ball straight. When I tried making my legs parallel to each other, my stroke suddenly became straight. I can finally make straight shots much much better. It was a magical revelation to me, it's mind blowing.
I'm still a beginner so I still can't make 10 stop ball straight shots in a row, but changing my stance surely improved my game and made me enjoy the game more. Stance surely is super important.
@@josefernandez4423 Opening my stance many years ago also helped my accuracy. The main thing it did for me was help me get my head in the correct position with my face square to the shot. This allowed me to see the shot line more accurately. For more info, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/
The "Large Belly or Chest" section brought to mind Rudolf Wanderone's ("Minnesota Fats") stance, and how it must've had to change over the years.
He's not the only one. Pool players aren't always the most fit individuals.
I'm not so sure that his stance was even due to his size. It seems that most of the players from the era when straight pool was the dominant game shot with a very upright type stance.
@@procrastinator6902 Good point.
Your camera angles and clarity have really improved. Excellent video. May I ask what camera you are using? Many thanks.
Thank you! All my camera and software info can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/video/dr-dave-production/
👏👏👏 Well done, Dr. Dave! 👏👏👏
Thanks, Kim! I'm glad you liked it.
Thank you for another great video 💪
You're welcome. And thank you. I aim to swerve. :)
Nice I seen nice tips to day dr Dave. You make svb stroke on braking but can make his shooting on draw and follow his unique technique is special.
@@abrehamhaile4976 His “unique technique” is “special” only for him. What he does with his arm during normal shots is definitely not considered “best practices.” But if you work on something long and hard enough, any consistent technique “specialness” can be mastered.
been trying to fix this stroke i have where i have a very slight tip to the right. i still haven't figured it out yet, but i notice that when i shoot at the top of the cb i shoot straight (basing it from the full table center test).
i found this video where it said that your elbow should be aligned with the stroke just like Ko Pin Yi, and it was making me strained and twitchy. i thought i needed to learn to do that with a mirror. thank you for clearing it up that the stance is really different per person.
@@marcuskazuya I’m glad you found the video helpful.
I've never laughed and learned so much in the same video. 😂
I'm glad to hear it. I had fun with this one, and I had been thinking about this stuff for years.
@DrDaveBilliards I'm so grateful you didn't decide not to post the chest part. That was easily my favorite part. It was a struggle to look you in the eyes.
@@BooksNGuns I’m glad I included it also, despite my wife’s dismay.
Fantastic content!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
I'm 6'-2"tall, wide shoulders, cross dominant eye, wear glasses and age 65. Fortunately I have no orthopedic issues. Been working on nothing but finding my stroke for almost 2 years now. I spend hours setting up nothing but long diagonal shots (8' table) and try to spear them in with a medium firm stroke, just looking for my natural groove. The progress comes slow because my natural talent level is mediocre but there is some progress. Some nights I begin to find it and other nights it's gone.
I find it necessary on long shots to "rifle sight" it, which means getting my head as low as possible to come as close as possible to superimposing the 2 balls like the front & rear sights on a rifle. But I find I can't keep my head that low in the shot because my arm is folded too close to my upper body, the arm & shoulder joints must bend at more extreme angles and my cue hand hits my torso. And I have no belly or other protuberances, I'm lean and flat.
I've noticed Efren Reyes lifts his head on nearly every shot. It looks like he's getting his sight picture with his head low on the practice strokes and just as he makes the backstroke for the delivery he raises his upper body and head slightly and delivers the stroke. When he misses a shot sometimes the commentators call out that he stood up on the shot. I've noticed he does that on practically every shot and sometimes it is more pronounced and possibly contributes to a rare miss.
I've also noticed SVB swings his right elbow out slightly on every shot. His practice strokes keep the elbow perfectly in line, then at the top of the final backstroke he swings the elbow out as he delivers the stroke. These high talent individuals have naturally grooved their flaws, and this is a known thing in other sports such as golf where there have been some unorthodox swings at the highest performing levels.
For now I evaluate myself on nothing more than my own feel feedback. My errors are combinations of aim & stroke and I can often feel which of the two it was more of. I have strokes that felt good with aim error being the culprit and vice versa.
I find when I get comfortably loose my stroke will go out the window. I cannot let the cue rest loosely in the fingers of my shooting hand like a pro does. I must keep the cue up in the palm with the hand in a mild fist. I will sometimes start "shooting good", then my hand gets comfortably loose, then I get "wristy" and suddenly the stroke goes out the window, and I must discipline my grip to get the stroke back.
Another thing I must do is wear a visor. I have strong lighting over my table, as it should be. The eyes have a much easier time focusing when the light from above is blocked and only the light reflecting off the playing surface reaches the eyes. This is not just my eyes, this is true for everybody's eyes whether or not they realize it. I am amazed at how none of the pros use a visor, except maybe U.J. Puckett with his wide brim hat. I've seen some wear a ball cap backwards (and the guy aint bald). Personally, I would turn that visor forward and use it. I don't pull it down low on my forehead, I adjust it so the entire table is in view and the light fixtures are blocked when my head is down over the table.
@@onemoremisfit Wow! You really got it all out there on that one. Thanks for sharing.
Ha! Great advice, and one of your funniest videos!
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
I think the key to consistent shot-making is to repeat the stance that works for you for every single shot. And that's also the hardest thing in Pool. I'm convinced that 90% of my misses are down to bad stance and alignment, not aiming.
@@Erich_U Well stated. Consistency is the key. A consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine helps with this:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/pre-shot-routine/best-practices/
❤ thanks again dr.dave
@@valentenicoletti3622 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. 🤓
@DrDaveBilliards .....i teach this stuff too.....but sometimes you need a starting point 🤣 ! I really appreciate your helping videos, i m a Student of the game , but..... pool is my happy Island, the 3 -4 hour in the pool hall one Millimeter ( spin , aiming etc.) Is the biggest Problem i have.....outside the pool hall , normally , one Millimeter is not a big Deal 😉 ! Thanks again
@@valentenicoletti3622 “Happy Island.” I like it.
😂😂, I love the large chest and belly dimensions!! 👏👏
"Hello! My eyes are up here!" 🤭
Dr. Dave, I want to challenge you to do a 66 and 78 ball rack break and runout. Good luck.
That would be fun. I might need to get more balls!
The biggest rack I've done to date is 45:
ruclips.net/video/vv4XwOKgnpw/видео.html
It wasn't easy. 66 or 78 might be out of my league.
@@DrDaveBilliards 45? I thought you made a 55 ball runout?
@@Jake-b6e6i I attempted it, but I had to take a couple of Mulligans:
ruclips.net/video/GPYuwyrZX7o/видео.html
@@DrDaveBilliards I don't think anything is ever out of your league, you're a great 8 ball pool player. Also your first mulligan on the 55 ball runout was slightly funny.
It's interesting because when you adjust yourself to the conventional shoulder alignment, you look a lot more like the typical pro pool player. Obviously there are always anatomical exceptions to the rules. Mohammed Soufi shoots with the elbow tucked in, a habit which he apparently picked up from starting at such a young age that he couldn't reach the table. Karen Corr uses the more open stance to accommodate for her larger chest. John Morra also comes to mind when you mention that you have discomfort in the conventional stance. He famously had to switch handedness due to years of neck and back strain (also in part due to being a righty with left eye dominant cue alignment).
@@AndrewT Typical pro pool players are very short (relative to me), especially the Asian players.
dr dave can you recommend a system of how to approach different lays of balls when playing games? i just thought to ask this to someone in a game of short rack 8 ball at the moment. what variables in shot taking should i start deciding on first if im taking this direction with things? hard/soft speed? location of impact on the cue ball? bridge type/length? is this an effective system to consider for a player? thank you 🙏
@@video-junkie2 See the videos and other resources here when you have some free time (ideally, lots of free time):
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/strategy/8-ball/
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/strategy/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-ball-control/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/safety/strategy/
Enjoy!
I'm totally jealous of your Sun Microsystems hat
@@someara That’s the standard headwear for Doofus Dave. He has appeared on other videos also, whenever I need demonstrations of the bad ways to do things.
I think I got the hat at a conference about 35 years ago!
I'm not sure if it's due to being right handed/left eye dominant, having arms the length of someone who is around 6'3 despite being 5'10 😂, or some other factor that I haven't identified but a stance with my torso and shoulders turned like an archer seems to be what works best for me and allows a natural pendulum stroke without having to force any correction to prevent pronating. I came across this stance while watching ShortStopOnPool's (Bob Keller) video titled "How to Shoot Straight"; it was what he recommended and seems to be my best fit!
@@procrastinator6902 That is a good approach for some people, but it can create lots of neck strain and tension for others, especially those trying to get their face square to the shot (which has advantages).
my theory is play the tough shots MANY times until you get the low percentage (but very makeable) ones a high percentage of the time. if you are doing this, your body will naturally follow. Yesterday I did frame by frame on a Kyren Wilson long draw shot. on the last delivery his elbow was raised significantly and his head raised quite a bit too. Point here is obsessing with good technique can be a hindrance.
Kyren has worked on his technique a lot over the years. This is the case with many great players, always striving to improve. But you are right, hard work and lots of practice are the most important elements of success.
1 thing you may want to explore or elaborate on, is whether straightness of bridge arm matters.
@@bensonliang4702 Good point. I should have probably discussed this some. A straighter arm does help with aiming since it allows you to see more of the cue in front of you.
Whoa, where did the Sun Microsystems hat (at 9:36) come from? I worked at Sun for 10 years...
@@jonasbygden I think I got it at a Siggraph conference about 30 years ago.
@@DrDaveBilliards Sounds about right, I worked there -96 - -05
As a right handed player I have to put my left eye over the cue. AHHHHHHH!! NECK PAIN!!!
Same here, plus my neck is fused. I can't play long without ibuprofen.
An open stance can definitely help cross-eye-dominant players.
how is that?
@@chrishabgood8900 A closed stance with face turn can also help, but an open stance involves less neck strain to get the face square.
I also have left eye dominance as a right handed player. Rotating my shoulders more (as in being more angled to the shot as opposed to being more square to it like Dr Dave's stance is) seems to help with this and I don't experience any pain at all. Look up a picture of Ko Pin Yi while he is down on a shot to see a good example of what I mean.
Dr. Dave, do you have a Fargo rating?
No. I have played only in VNEA leagues and tournaments. It would probably in the 650 range.
@ Love your videos by the way. Mechanical engineer here, so it’s right up my alley.
@@MatthewTosi I'm glad to hear it, especially from an engineer (who can at times be "critical"). 😏
6:49 I hit my belly all the time and my back hurts, so I hover above the cue, but I am in line.
@@williammcdowell3718 A lower stance can be more accurate:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/low/
but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Greetings to all my brothers in misfortune who 5 years later still changing their stance every two weeks because they didn't find The One.
Hopefully, this video helps them move on with their "personal best stance" and forget about what other people, books, or videos might tell them.
@@DrDaveBilliards The thing is, if it would work from the start, I'd never chase the idiomatic book stance, which I couldn't care less about. The issue is that you find something that is natural for your line of aim but not for your legs or shoulders. Than you find something decent but it doesn't work for some shots in particular zones of the table. Than something gives you a better potting but it's forced and hurts your body quickly, etc, etc... Sometimes I just want to quit, lol, because every change sets you back for a month and you throw away matches that you could've easily won before. Thank for the stellar content, as usual!
@@Krushard Well stated. You're welcome, and thank you!
I lost it when you stuffed your chest with the airbags 😂.
@@Hungry_Billiards I’m glad to hear it. I think I made those airbags look quite good (if I may say so myself). 🤓
Great tips, thanks, peace
I'm glad you found it helpful.
AMAZING 😂
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
@DrDaveBilliards Thank You for Your videos.. they have definitely gave me different perspectives of the game.. for real.. but yesterday, when I seen you Stuff Your Shirt.. I about fell out of my chair laughing.. keep up the good work.. Your vids are freaking awesome...
@@The_W80 Thank you. I'm glad I gave you a chuckle. And I glad you find my stuff helpful.
Do you want to be putting the weight on your front foot, back foot, or both balanced?
The weight should be balanced between the feet.
On your stance segment you stroke that straight shot but your hand grabs the stick and wobble a bit in your follow through. It is short stroked, or poked almost.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight I don’t think I am tightening my grip, but I will check. I vary my stroke length with the speed of the shot. The “Low and Slow” stop shot only requires about 1/3 of my stroke. See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/speed/advice/
@@DrDaveBilliards I was able to see it in the video facing you. You grip the stick as you stroke more than you should perhaps. and that gripping caused the wobbling. It did not seem to affect your shot though, but the slight right roll you showed may be the natural lean of that issue. I spent most of my life with a tighter than most grip, and have now relaxed it, but my stroke is not always pure either. Just like my quest for whirled peas, I also seek a co-linear stroke arm. I am retired and near broke, but Denver and a stop by your school is on my bucket list. A certain Peruvian lake and a meeting with a particular Shaman down there is also on it.
@ Thank you for the suggestions. My grip is closed, and it certainly looks tight in the video (partly because my hands are bony without much flesh), but I don’t think my grip tightened during those strokes. When I tighten my grip, my cue usually doesn’t finish straight. I think the slight cue wobble is due to the cue deflection and vibration caused by the hit at the very low tip position. I think the close-up camera view also makes the wobble look exaggerated.
@@DrDaveBilliards Maybe you were tightening it to pull back as in your short stroke method. So it was not in your shot stroke, but in the drawback of the cue.
@@cosmicraysshotsintothelight My back grip hand fingers definitely open during the backstroke and close during the forward stroke (as they should), but the grip pressure is not tightening (as it should not).
How do short people do this? I’m 5’2”
I think everything in this video applies to people of all heights. Being shorter actually offers advantages with the normal stance. You don't need to bend down a ridiculous amount like I need to (being 6'3").
"my eyes are up here" i lost it
@@nickolaiphoenix9347 I’m glad you enjoyed my “cleavage scene.” 🫢
@@DrDaveBilliards "Air barrel" lol.
@ Good one.
Dr. Dave really goes the extra mile.
... whatever it takes!
I'm going to have traumatic flashbacks to this video every time the commentators say "this is a big rack" from this point forward.
I think I will also remember your comment whenever I hear it.
Have you practiced shooting with your eyes closed to break the habit of steering the cue? Its surprising how many shots you can make.
I have. I have also used it with students who tend to tense up on shots (especially draw shots).
Dance your stance for sure. I line up all the balls then keep my eyeballs square to the shot ... proper landing is better than many practice strokes. Moving forward only... players assume they don't need to fix anything ever. One thing at a time. Grip stance and stroke are good place to calibrate
Sounds good to me.
Nice air bags ya got there, Dave 🤣
@@RamboUnchained Don’t make me blush. ☺️
@DrDaveBilliards LMAO. I appreciate the video! We've had a table at home for a few months and after I watch them, I send them to my wife so she can up her game. You're the man around here!
@ You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear it. Please let me know what your wife thinks about my “cleavage scene.” My wife didn’t approve, but I left it in anyway.
@DrDaveBilliards she chuckled because...well, it applies. I've been trying to get her in alignment similar to my stance but that has been a constant complaint of hers. I didn't consider that I don't have the obstructions that she has lol.
@@RamboUnchained Thanks for the report.
Wider shoulders it's impossible to get it all in line.
... not impossible, but much more difficult, especially when you are tall with a low stance.
Hello my eyes are up here! LMAO
I'm glad it gave you a laugh.
Dang! And here I thought my stance attitude was perfect. Which is select the stance that best matches the shot each time, and become adept at good stroking with any of those stances. This one has worked, but only came close this time. Still better than the behind the back dopes. Usually I just switch and shoot left handed. ruclips.net/video/-Hfvttv-u8M/видео.html
People always overlook their stroke, or I call the flow.
For those interested, lots of good stroke advice can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
😂🥥🥥🤣
@@FiachDuffy Hello, my eyes are up here! 🙄
you look so uncomfortable in that stance ngl
@@aleksus34 Which one? If you are referring to my “personal best stance,” I explain it in detail in the other two videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/
AMAZING video. As a 56 year old newbie this is EXACTLY what I’ve been looking for … and I really enjoy hearing a ‘pro’ tell me it’s okay if my stance is not old school textbook. However, I have one question that I need answered. After I get in my position and down on the ball … what STARTS the backstroke. I’ve read it’s not supposed to be my hand pulling the cue back so is it the sensation of my forearm moving back? One of my bigger flaws is cupping the wrist on long shots so I’m just trying to find a move that keeps my wrist flat for the entire time. Thanks and thanks again for a great video.
I’m glad you found the video helpful. Concerning the backstroke, you are right that it should be driven by forearm motion, with the grip hand and wrist as relaxed as possible. For more more info and help on this, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/technique/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
@ - thanks again. Wish I was local, I’d come for lessons.