CORRECTION: We erroneously characterized Capital Expenses (CapEx) as expenses in the "Other Expenses" category of Vail Resorts' P&L Statement at 8:23. Turns out CapEx isn't actually an expense at all 🙂 This might be a bit confusing if you're not from a finance background, but here's why: CapEx is technically the funds used to purchase acquisitions, new lifts, etc. So this line item is actually an asset on the Balance Sheet - and does not play a part in Vail's Net Income. "Other Expenses" include purchases that typically happen on a one-off basis and are hard to group with another typical line item for the business. It might include things like one-time legal fees or settlements, unusual maintenance costs (e.g., an unexpected bullwheel replacement for a 30-year-old lift), or losses on investments.
Capital expenses are assets that are depreciated or amortized (items that are expensed over the life of the asset versus fully expensed when paid - they have a useful life). Going forward, revenue per employee could be an interesting metric to trend and review. If it trended higher and higher, it could mean short staffing and lower service.
@@rachelwilson5292CapEx is Capital Expenditures. This is a cashflow statement item, not P&L. In terms of income, it means nothing. Lots of misinformation here. Glad the OP is trying to make corrections. This sort of analysis should really be done by a CPA.
We (three guys) went to Switzerland for a ski trip last January. Ski pass in St. Moritz was about $55 a day (sleep and ski deal), while staying at the All in One Hotel in Celerina (next to St. Moritz) for less than $100 per night, per person. Even with the plane ticket of $800, and some train rides, it was cheaper than driving to Vail and skiing for a week. Did I mention the spectacular Alps?
coming from a finance background...I figure Vail will eventually price itself out of business. Are they close to bankruptcy? No. Is it a good stock to own? No, unless you bought and held over ten years ago. They can only price themselves out of trouble for a period of time. I think you should make this an annual video to check up on the state of the industry.
It is priced as a luxury good. Rich people might just pay for less crowds. I haven't been to many vail resorts but whistler is packed with 300$ day pass.
It may go the way of golf. I have some family who are big into golf and when they told me how much they paid skiing seemed downright cheap. Since you work in finance you know there is no shortage of very well off people.
Curious your thoughts. They do own all of the real estate. Haven’t ran a valuation on them, but I’m imagining their book value is incredibly misleading. And that is worth something
@@j.p.6228 They do own real estate, such as base areas, hotels, etc. but they do not own the mountains themselves. These are leased from the forest service with a hefty payment annually.
Lift tickets have never been more accessible… Vail fucks a lot of things up but ski ticket prices are incredibly affordable if you just buy them ahead of time
@@Zeethos if your a flat lander who just wants to slide around a bit and look at the pretty mountains for a few days getting a pass is stupid expensive too. As a good skier perhaps that brightens your day, but I think of it as elitism. Skiing is fun and people should be able to just enjoy themselves in nature without such a hefty price to entry.
There’s no way the independents can afford the capital improvements needed to keep a ski area competitive. The independents in California (Bear Valley, Sierra at Tahoe) are struggling because they don’t have the money for new lifts, updated lodges or even paving the parking lots. It’s tough business.
@@Nate_Higgins the increased need for snowmaking in much of the US has made competing as an independent extremely difficult. Independents are always going to be at a massive disadvantage with regards to access to capital for investment/improvement and that is before you actually pay to make snow.
@wallyballou7417 European resorts have been doing that for nearly a century, and they are far more modern than their US counterparts. The difference is the ownership structure. Most resorts in Europe are locally owned so they have the incentive to keep skiing viable in the long term
Was offered a free condo in telluride for 3 nights. Did the calculation without owning an Epic pass. It came to around $1500 for two of us to ski. Doesn’t include flights or food etc. Could easily spend 3k for basically a couple of days of skiing. Add the condo and it’s 5k? That is literally the definition of insanity.
Living in Germany, I could book spontaneously in the middle of the season to let’s say Kitzbühel (posh resort), into a 4* hotel for about 900€ for 3 nights for 2 persons. + 3 day ski pass ca. 430€ for also 2 persons. US is mad 😱
I hear you and that’s Telluride, an exclusive price locked / pass-level locked top resort. Just to round out examples, I have ~20 days of vrbo’s locked up for $6k across Crested Butte, Vail, Beav Creek, and Breck for this season. I paid $1.4k for my wife’s and my epic local pass. My K-5 kids ski for free on Epic’s CO kids pass (4x days at Breck, Vail, Keystone, BC, and CB). So we will get ~20 days this year for about $6k lodging, $1.4k in season passes, and skiing for 4 people. That’s 80 individual ticketed days of skiing for a daily ticket/lodging cost of
@@hogcranker123 Luckily Veil resorts only owns ONE resort in Utah. They own Park City now...a great mountain...which they are driving into the ground by neglecting maintenance. It's now the worst run ski resort in the state. Terrible! Tourists don't know better so they still ski Park City but locals have figured it out. It's just not a well run company.
Done with skiing in the US. Its cheaper and better to fly to Europe to ski. Next year Mont Blanc for cheaper than Colorado after all costs. Travel and lodging
@TooDaft yes on the flights. depends on the timing. Perhaps about 300 to 500 more. You are saving probably $100 to 200 per day on the skiing and lodging.
I used to teach snowboarding at Mount Snow in Vermont when it was a great mountain with wonderful midweek deals where you could buy a lift ticket for 50 bucks or under. Vail completely ruined it. I wish they would go bankrupt and leave everyone alone and mountains could get back to normal.
They’ve made skiing for those who only go a couple times a year not really feasible because of their high costs. I personally didn’t renew my season pass because they raised the price for no apparent reason.
I think they are raising prices as they need to make money in shorter windows in New England the snow is seemingly gone terrible ski seasons. They have less opportunity to sell and it’s busy when they are open and no lack of people lining up to pay
I don’t think they actually care about people who only ski a couple times a year. They target people like my friends and I who have the ski virus bad and have to ski. Not skiing is not an option. Count your self fortunate that you can stop skiing and not lose your mind. I plan on skiing until I am dead. If it snows in hell I will ski there too.
I snowboard and have the same bug. Luckily I’m in Tahoe and have many options. This is my first season without one of the big passes. This year I opted only for a Sierra at Tahoe pass. Lucky for me what I find fun doesn’t require a big resort. Hopefully my experience isn’t ruined with Sierra’s partnership with ikon.
@@mtadams2009 I don’t think you’re their target audience at all. They want delusional people who think they’re going to ski 10 days but end up only skiing 5. Really they’re just huge real estate companies that use skiing as their killer app
I went to Big Sky Montana a few years ago and if you didn’t already have tickets a single lift ticket for one day was $1200. $650 if you were there on a weekday. Unreal.
@pistolen87 It's also not true. I just looked and Big Sky's highest lift ticket for holidays looked to be about $275 USD for a holiday (they had it online as 270 discounted from 275 for January 1st). There is a private club next door called the Yellowstone Club that I thought was member's only but may have some sort of guest fee, that may be what OP saw. Either that or they were pricing a private lesson or rental/lesson/ticket and maybe lodging combo... or are just a liar.
@@Nomer77 it is absolutely true. You need to wait until the season starts and check again in the same month you want to go. You will see those prices on Saturdays and Sundays.
@@s81n Big Sky surge prices tickets? No where on the internet I can find backs this up. It is expensive, yes. And they've done shady things with having to pay extra for tram access over the years (including with tram access for different tiers of season passes). But they do not have the most expensive lift ticket in North America (this very channel covers such a topic pretty regularly as does a lot of online ski media). And that definitely don't charge over a grand for a single day ticket.
Ever since I got back into the sport in 2020 (I know...what a time) I have been skiing independent. First at Loveland...now with Monarch. Can't beat the prices. Plus all the free days at other resorts are SO underrated. As a side note, my son and I own a small business that is trying to break into the ski/snowboard space. Monarch welcomed us with open arms. We can't even get a phone number to call to talk to someone with Vail resorts. lol
Someone else who completely understands! Like, sure, Vail and Breck have amazing terrain, but it's literally EVERYTHING else about the experience there that makes me keep going back to Monarch or Loveland. Hoping we get Eldora back soon, too.
If you ski a lot and have an ability to travel, Epic Pass is undeniably better value than a local hill pass. If you kinda like skiing 3 times a year, $65 day pass at your local hill is a better deal.
@@SlavaEremenko Not worth my time or money to stand in long lines at all the Epic and Ikon ski areas. Frankly I would rather my money go to my local place, family owned than stand in line at Vail or or where ever..
Vail is actively ruining the ski industry. I live on the east coast and make a pretty decent income but its almost impossible for me to justify spending nearly $3k just to have 4 or 5 days of good skiing per year. Even if I wanted to stay more local and go to Vermont, a day pass is nearly (or over) $200. These prices are absolutely insane I dont know how they expect people to keep up with this. Last year I went to Pico (based off of your Vermont ranking video) and it was an enjoyable time at a fair price. Its the only place around that doesnt charge an arm and a leg. I remember I used to go skiing mutiple times per year and spend $40 for a day pass......I miss those days
Those days are for skiing and basically every other pastime are over. Stop going to epic and ikon (pico) resorts. Or they will end up owning everything.
Ski areas often do a cost plus valuation of lift tickets. So instead of pricing for affordability, they figure their costs, and just increase. This is like the small business that wants to charge consumers full retail prices. Sadly we don't have a Walmart of ski areas to come in and challenge these high prices. I recommend to all skiers that are fed up with these prices is to boycott these ski areas, and patronize smaller areas. Also, trash these high prices on social media and at ski shops etc, until they get the message.
It's more complicated. If you ski a lot and live near a "competitive" area like Tahoe, the Epic Pass is the Walmart of passes. For example it was cheaper in 2022/2023 to buy an Epic Pass which gave me access to three Tahoe resorts, plus access to Whistler for a ski vacation, than it was to buy a pass at an independent resort. (Epic pass with blackout days vs independent resort pass with weekdays only.)
Go to smaller areas and enjoy your time. There is more integrity in that than going to Breck and complaining online as soon as you get home. But In my opinion, $1000 Epic Pass is a great value proposition and the smallest expense of a trip. A cold AirBnb for one week, 3 bus transfers away from the resort - will cost you more.
If you are fed up with US lift ticket prices and the crowds, simply head to the Alps. Lift tickets are about $60m per day, slighpy more at the most prestigious places. The food is great. The scenery is way better than the US and the after party is awesome.
Agree on the lift ticket prices. Probably mostly due to liability insurance costs . The other stuff I guess comes down to personal preferences. In addition crowds and lift lines can be and ARE crazy in Europe.
@@trevorsyversen9956 liability and also lift tickets not including rescue services. Plus with huge areas, they can sell lots of tickets without crowding too badly
No question the scenery is on average totally superior in Europe, and ticket price savings will easily pay for the extra flight costs from the U.S. I think in Europe the company top management isn't trying to retire on a couple years' wages.
While this is true, the snow conditions are really sketchy. With such huge areas, they get neglected by the groomers. But if you like icy moguls all the time, it might be for you.
"Simply go to the Alps". You really wrote that. If a family lives anywhere in the U.S. and loves family skiing, transportation to the Rockies or the Sangre de Christos is very reasonable. World class skiing is scattered throughout these areas .Flights to these areas are inexpensive when booked in advance and highways are free. The time and effort to reach the ski destination is no more than a 12-hour trip. A passport is not required. English is spoken. The Alps, as hopefully many skiers know, are in France, Austria, and Northern Italy. Transportation is expensive, time consuming, and physically draining. A passport is required, which at the very least is a time consuming pain in the rear to obtain. Although English is spoken throughout all resort regions of the Alps, American visitors have been made to feel unwelcome even before Trump was elected. So, why are the Alps a "simple" solution to high U.S. lift ticket prices? I see that some comments say that flying to Europe and skiing at, say Mont Blanc in France is cheaper than going to Colorado. If that is true, how can that be true? Am I missing something?
As a European who has had the privilege to ski some of Europe's biggest and best resorts (3 Valleys, Tignes-Val D, Val Gardena) it shocks me to hear when people in US pay 300, 350 Dollars PER DAY!!. Often in Europe, you can buy a hotel + ski pass for the whole week for 400-600 Euros/person for a 4-6 people apartment during peak season in resorts like Val Thorens. The fact that Vail is failing (or atleast I hope it is) makes me very happy and hopefully a step in the right direction to get rid of greed that is taking over skiing (which is already an expensive hobby).
I haven't skied in 30 years. It just got too expensive. I live in the Midwest and after living and skiing in Idaho when I was in the USAF it was really difficult to find good skiing here. I tried but got bored in about a half hour. I could drive 4 to 6 hours and ski the U.P. of Michigan but between gas, hotel, and luft tickets that would be once a year. I can't imagine a family of 4 trying to get into skiing.
When Vail bought Stevens Pass in WA state, day ticket prices went way up, service went waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy down. I began boycotting their resorts and now ride at a locally owned mountain. I couldn't be happier.
@@teacherguy5084 i ski weekdays so crowds arent really a problem. i enjoy the local hills but there isnt enough variety for 70-100+ ski days, and buying 3 passes aint it.
As a passholder in the Northeast, I think my biggest criticism is that they don't spend the money on snowmaking and operations. Especially for the front half of the season last year conditions were pretty terrible for natural snow. Wildcat/Attitash were pretty much limited to a single top to bottom trail until MLK day. Sunday River about 30 minutes to the east was at about 100 trails in that window, exclusively on the back of snowmaking, despite suffering catastrophic flood damage in December. Even when it finally snowed, the man-made base (or lack thereof) made a huge difference in conditions. I also skied Vail last year on a non-powder day last year. The groomed terrain was very limited and and congested like an interstate highway. The off-piste was packed out and pushed up to about where you expect without fresh snowfall. Overall pretty disappointing.
@MountainMan9712 yeah, I wouldn't have picked one up this year except I ski 2-3 days in Colorado with a friend who moved to Denver. My local group also booked at an epic mountain. The way they set it up I can't just buy 3 Days at the new England rate and 3 Days at the CO rate (2x the price). You have to buy all 6 days at the highest rate, and at that point the "epic local" pass is only an extra $100 for unlimited East Coast with no blackouts except Stowe.
There are still plenty of mom and pop ski areas around for an affordable no bs skiing. They may not be mega hills but they generally wont have mega lift lines either if u can avoid weekends and other peak days. I refer skiing at ikon/epic resorts as urban skiing.
@@Bozopackmaybe somewhat true out west for a pass but the if u just ski occasionally there are areas that will save u money for day tickets like sunlight powderhorn ski cooper etc but not true in the east. Where u can buy day tickets for $100 or less.
@@diver3444 100$ for a day ticket is insane. What do u think im gonna spend 10000$ on lift tickets for the year?? No. Am i going to spend 100 days at a single east coast mountain?? No.
@@SlavaEremenko u didn’t mention what area of the country ur from but in Colorado there plenty of challenge at sunlight powderhorn ski cooper mt wolf creek to name a few. If money is no object… paid parking expensive food drink etc then great. I now ski in NH at Cannon mt which is one of the most challenging hills in the east owned by the state and bare bones and I enjoy it as much as vail/beaver creek/aspen.
The question becomes how many new skiers are added to the industry every year. I volunteered at a small mountain on the east coast as an ambassador and that was what they were concerned about. Years ago snowboarding saved the ski industry bc it added new people to the mountain. Now with ticket prices so high, families don’t try skiing bc there are so many other cheaper options.
That executive pay compensation to median worker ratio is insane. In Europe, it’s 10:1 to 15:1 in most ski resort companies and indoor snowdome operators
Gave up skiing 5 years ago. When I started skiing in the 80s, a lift ticket was $25. The elites that run private equity basically destroyed skiing for the average person.
Every resort they bought, the prices went sky high. I quit skiing a few years ago because the value wasn't there. $150-$200 for a lift ticket and you spend half the day (6 hours) in lines. Food is out of the question.
This is good information! I follow business and the stock market closely and I just wanted to add a couple things. -The stock price chart looks similar to a lot of other companies: gains in Q2 2020-2021 and then down/sideways in 2022-2023. Vail is significantly behind the market in 2024, which has performed well. -Weather is a lousy excuse companies use for bad fiscal results, although accurate in this case. FY23 saw huge snow totals in most regions and FY24 was possibly the worst the company has seen. I was at Northstar in March 2023 and the outside deck on the highest lodge was closed because it had 18 ft of snow on it that couldn't possibly be moved anywhere. -The sky is not falling for this company, although this doesn't feel like a buying opportunity to me either.
Didn't watch the whole video but the first half made me think of Disney. Crowded lifts make for bad experiences, so if you can raise the price, lose some customers but still gain in revenue and income while delivering a better product (less crowded lifts), companies consider this a win.
I think you're right. I haven't been to Disneyland since I was a kid and don't feel the need to ever go back, so it's weird hearing people who go on complaining about how expensive Disney is now and how crowded it is, yet it seems like they feel COMPELLED to go there regardless, as if it's a requirement to make the Hajj to the Mecca of Disney World/Land every few years. I got this video as a random recommendation as a non-skiier: I'm just someone who likes learning about how businesses are run. With that said, I'm glad to see many of those in the comments here showing a different attitude, refusing to go to Vail resorts and opting to instead visit independently run ski resorts who still offer their customers value.
I have been an epic pass holder for a decade and i was somewhat happy with it. Until last year when they de-prioritized terrain park facilities around the country. Some of the most iconic parks in the country were neutered to 1/3 of their size/amount of features.
Heard recently, "skiing has never been more affordable and less accessible for most people." Walk-ups are ridiculous, but there are always people willing to pay for the day...pretty wild stuff
I don't know if they are done...but Vail Resorts ruined Park City Utah after acquiring it. It's a great mountain but they cut the maintenance staff dramatically to improve profitability and the lifts are always breaking down. That means entire sections of the mountain closed, the best terrain unavailable after a snowstorm and the chance you'll get stuck on a broken lift which happened to us twice! Sitting up in the air for >1 hour in a snowstorm with your kids is not a great experience. And during covid it was the only resort in the state of Utah that required you to show proof of vaccination just to enter a lodge/restaurant. No other resort in the state of Utah engaged in this Colorado virtue signal stupidity. We now buy a season pass to Snow Basin and a haven't looked back.
@ not usually. They come off sale before the resorts start opening up so they can bring prices back down on black Friday. At least thats what happens with snowboards.
I lived in Vail from '70-'76 and as student, my ski pass was $25 A YEAR! It went up to $40 ~'74. Had lots of good times and memories, but I'd never live there again, even if I could afford it.
Publicly traded companies ruin everything… they are legally required to squeeze as much money out of its operations as possible just for some rich investors.
In 1966 Mission Ridge opened 12 miles from Wenatchee, WA. East (dry) side of Cascades. It was $5/day, $100-ish for year pass. Huge area with 2000+ ft.vertical, no lift lines, 300 days of sunshine. Skied every weekend all season. + Lots of good tiny local ski hills in NorthWest. Those were the days..
I'm glad I am 76 y.o. I come from the era of $10 to $50 per day lift tickets. I'll live with my great memories of a fifty-year skiing career. Good luck on that $369 lift ticket.
I remember going to Vail in 2004 and thinking $85 per day for a lift ticket was insane. Especially when everywhere else was $50-60. So mental what it is now.
As a long term Epic holder in the Tahoe area I’ve seen a decline in the infrastructure and maintenance to buildings or the lack there of.. as a contractor in the Bay Area their buildings are worn down and the Lifts. Kirkwood is my goto hill. Heavenly 2nd. Now with the advent of pre paid parking and reservations it’s ruined the spontaneous day trip to the mountain on the weekend. When the Pow Pow is low it’s the locals and faithful that keep you afloat during low pow storms. With parking reservations and fees they have ruined it and it’s all a money grab now. While I can afford it , it’s just a bad squeeze of all of us. KW is the red headed stepchild of Vail and hasn’t got anything new in 10 years and longer. The roads and buildings are run down and crap. While they have the Epic trackers at each lift. The hand wands that these lift employees assault you with are terrible. They really want that ping and almost hit you with these wands or guns to get that ping. While I love the power pow you can see the money grab by Vail each year and their product is dying on the vine.
I live in Ohio, mad river is my closest resort. I go out of my way to go to the family owned mountain a bit more north because vail has made the prices unreasonable to ski/snowboard in Ohio. 80 dollars for a day pass in Ohio where the elevation is
alterra and the introduction of the ikon pass in '18-19 completely changed solitude and traffic in big cottonwood canyon forever. used to have a season pass at solitude for at least 10 years but stopped that after '22-'23. i'm a backcountry splitboarder so in bcc quite a bit but you gotta get there early or its too late, and getting out of that canyon is no treat. i can only ski silverfork from the bcc side on mon-thur because they charge you for parking on the road outside of solitude fri-sat-sun. that was new last year along with not letting you park on the road outside of spruces trailhead. heard alterra bought a-basin so ikon and paid parking this year. they're gonna hate that shit. will be interesting to see how that place changes. it's a shame b/c it has such a cool vibe.
Wow. I don't know where Vail is going with this, but the big decrease in upgrading lifts has raised a lot of questions. As an Utah local, I am happy they are upgrading Sunrise, but seeing Vail's downgrade in lift upgrades is a bit dissapointing, especially for many areas needing upgrades. Alterra on the other hand is on a mad dash with installing almost 10 lifts in 2 years at Deer Valley, alone and is now the big ringleader in lift upgrades along with Boyne.
I didn't know you had it in you! Excellent breakdown, I love it. Good skier and with numbers. wow. Do one on Powdr now. I used to work for them as an instructor at Mt. Bachelor. Thanks for your videos, very entertaining.
Unfortunately the other mega corps don’t release their financials publicly, but we’re thinking about highlighting why Powdr is selling off so many resorts!
Wow! Glad this showed up in my feed. Nice dissection :) I live at a non-vail resort that is not publicly traded and I suspect something similar is taking place at this resort, also. In 2022, a burger at the resort owned cafeteria was $15 CAD. It shot up to $25 CAD the following year. And, that doesn't include cafeteria fries. With fries and tax, the price tops just over $30 CAD. It also seems the resort is no longer struggling to recruit staff, which was a major problem from 2020-23. Rents are still high, but the resort owns and controls most staff housing, so that is not a surprise.
$230 for a lift ticket here in Australia. Epic pass is $1000 You can do it cheap if you are willing to do day trips ( I live 2 hours away) and share travel costs with friends. But if you want to take a family to the snow for a weekend, hire some stuff, lessons, eat and drink you will need to drop $4k
And you're not going to do that unless you're wealthy AND you already know how to ski reasonably well. They can cash in on existing enthusiasts, but the next generation of skiers will not exist.
When I first started skiing Vail ( you better sit down for this ) a day lift ticket was $9.00. We thought that was outrageous then. Please the world needs the 70's back again. It was a fabulous time of sanity.
@@Cucumberflavoredmustard I hear you. I long for those times again. I bet you had a great time ! There is nothing like the Colorado Mountain Lifestyle. Blessings !
It’s not a drop in skier numbers….day lift tickets cost over $200, whereas a season pass cost $1000…anyone buying a pass will already have gear and the occasional skier won’t go too many days for that price. Thus, the rental market will struggle. As food, lodging, and other expenses continue to go sky high, many people will pack lunch and I personally use a generator for heat and sleep in my SUV. I try my best not to spend a penny at Vail, Breckenridge, etc. That said, when I ski a small place (cooper, monarch, sunlight) I get a room nearby and I eat out locally. If people come with a strict budget, then high lift ticket prices are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I have skied Whistler-Blackcomb many times from the early 90s to 2017. Chances of me paying C$329 (todays price) for a day of skiing crowded slopes are zero. Or maybe the crowded lines are gone at these prices?
Just like to add, Perisher Australia is seeing a new chair being installed now for the 2025 season. A 6 pack chair on Mt Perisher. It will take the crown from Thredbo being Australia's highest lifted spot. Also Australia Epic Pass went up, starting at $AUD 999 but since gone up like 50 bucks and they also introduced a 4 Day Pass for the 2025 season which is aimed at more price sensitive buyers.
The writings on the wall for Australian skiing which has always been marginal at best. I like their confidence in investing in lift infrastructure but Australia really has to be the bottom of priorities when you have seasons that ended like last one with the last month of winter practically being end of spring type conditions. Its shocking to me having lived near the mountains since the mid 80s just how few proper cold outbreaks and fronts come through in winter now. They would be totally screwed without snowmaking
Yer when is Thredbo giving us the bell might go pick it up this weekend And yes last season was not the best But it started well and I still got some great days in Yer maybe climate change will destroy skiing but I’m making the most of it
These prices are wild. Growing up in Portland Oregon, since I owned my own gear and could drive up for night ski and bring my own meal, the whole trip would cost ~$50.
Before watching this video, this is my take. Skiing has historically been an elite sport. Meaning the wealthy had access while most others did not. In the 90's and early 2000's it became much more accessible. Big Money saw more people and thought more profit, but they in turn pushed out a lot of their target sales. Here is where I think the real problem is, though. Skiing historically survived catering to the elite. However, there was still a local population that played a role, even if 10/15% that is a huge margin. Big Money has looked past this demographic, thinking they can just transport workers seasonally. But it's not just the workers, if locals stop going to the cafeteria, the apres and bars. If they simply ski their one season pass, that is a huge amount of loss. Then the vibe gets all wacky and if you're not a lifer at that mountain... you move. That's my thoughts. Can't wait to see what yours are! Happy trails!
Skiing mostly at Beaver Creek, Vail tops, EPIC lift pass is the reason Vail is in trouble, most skiiers want a lift pass for one or two weeks, in the local area not the worlds resorts.
Interesting "analysis" and great to get the conversation started. You might have missed the new gondola announcement at Breckenridge. That is a very needed and massive capital investment, but Vail could easily defer that investment.
@@PeakRankings It sure seems like there are financial investment analysis companies that could provide some sort of comparable overview of the ownership and profit loss statements, especially given that many of their properties are on Federal and State (public) owned lands (BLM, LA-DWP for example.
"Vile resorts" ruined the industry! If they go under, best thing that could happen! They treat employees like crap! And it's worth your life to ski or ride on their over crowded runs!
Looking at vail’s portfolio of resorts I think a big part of the problem is they over spent on a lot of underperforming resorts like in the Midwest (as you pointed out) but also here in the west. Resorts like crested butte (while great for skiing) are not money makers and never have been. Alterra has been much more judicious about acquisitions. Vail is also pricing themselves as a luxury good and that market tends to be fickle no matter if you’re talking about cars or handbags. Big, family friendly mountains near big population centers is where the money is (eg tahoe, Breckenridge). I also question vails strategy of loading up on snow scarce mountains in places like Pennsylvania. Do those ski areas really get enough visitation to offset the variable snowfall or snow making conditions?
For all the hate of Vail, the Epic pass is actually a pretty good deal if you ski regularly (6-10+ days a year). The walk up prices are ridiculous to be sure, but almost nobody pays those rates. Skiing’s always been expensive and it obviously costs a lot to run a ski area, but I feel like skiing is still a pretty decent value compared to Disneyland, a cruise or a lot of other tourist attractions. Think about the price of things like a zip-line ride, horseback riding, boat rental, etc. Everything’s expensive! Vail is also known for recruiting veterans and the employees I’ve interacted with have been on the ball and generally helpful.
Reports are they pay their instructors about 10 to 15% of the ski school revenue. It's essentially a purely labor business - no cost of materials - so profit margin after managers is likely 75%, or 5 to 7 times direct labor. That's unconscionable. I've heard Aspen used to pay twice as much of the revenue to instructors, don't know if it's true.
@@teacherguy5084 They even make the instructors buy their own uniforms. I don't know how they get away with that. Typically if the company name or logo appears on the garment, the employer must foot the bill.
There's an annual ski and snowboard swap sale in my hometown, and it made me think about getting back into skiing. Then realized I was way too broke to get back into such an expensive hobby.
I'm purposely avoiding Vail resorts for all ski vacations. I can only spend 1 week a year for a Ski vacation and the same day lift ticket or multi days are way to expensive. I can't Ski enough to get a Epic pass, so I just avoid them all together.
I live nest to PCMR Vail will always be around, as long as we allow them to charge $42 for a frozen patty cheeseburger fries and coke. Its like eating at the airport or disney, you have no choice but to bring sandwiches of you rown and buy a 20 oz soda for $7
I'm 92 and Vail priced me out of my favoite ski resort, Okemo. I was so sorry to see the Mullers sell. The Vail Corp. also purchased one of my local resort Jack Frost in Pennsylvania. A small local ski resort can not be operated like a mega ski resort. A small resort can't support the over head of the mega resort.
There are many ski resorts in Utah, and most of them are not Vail. The smaller the resort, the cheaper the cost. For example, children aged 3-12 ski free, and all-day tickets cost around $30. Even lift tickets at larger resorts like Snowbird are only $185, and Brighton's range from $89-$120.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, they can pretty much charge whatever they want and people will still come. This is still chump change for people with disposable income.
Great analysis on all variables! Vail Resorts is in for a horrible storm (no pun intended) in the next few years. I believe there will be some great deals coming soon to own some ski resorts that Vail is forced to sell.
Don't know about other areas but Sun Valley has a couple of people-friendly small ski areas nearby. Soldier Mt. and Pomerelle. Sure the terrain is limited, but prices are great and Pomerelle, being on the Idaho-Nevada border, benefits from the southerly winds that collide with the cold fronts coming in from the northwest coast, claims to get the most snow of any place in Idaho. Also its hard to put a price on not feeling ripped-off.
I worked at Beaver Creek winter of 17/18 as a liftie. I think they paid us 12.50/hr and rent to live on property was $400/month. I did it to ski and it made me realize there's more to life than skiing.
I have a pass at Crested Butte which Vail bought a couple years ago. They won't even take cash anymore. 😊 I like how it prices out most people and stays less busy. Good for me!
Growing up riding Mad River Mountain in Ohio, I’ve seen how much the weather has changed over the years. Snow days I remember as a kid are a thing of the past, with each year bringing less and less snowfall. While that’s a significant challenge, it doesn’t let Vail off the hook for what’s happening at our resort. Mad River used to have one of the best terrain parks in the Midwest, but since Vail took over, the focus has shifted from enhancing the rider experience to squeezing as much money as possible out of visitors. Lift ticket prices have skyrocketed, which makes no sense for a small Midwest resort like Mad River. It’s shocking that a single-day ticket now costs $80-and that’s not even including rentals. To make matters worse, even when the resort is open, many of the runs aren’t fully operational, yet they still charge full price. It feels like Vail has no real interest in maintaining Mad River. For them, we’re just a tiny blip on their balance sheet. It’s heartbreaking to think our resort might not survive under this kind of ownership. Vail’s takeover is the worst thing that could’ve happened to Mad River Mountain.
It is a shitty time for those newer skiiers and boarders trying to get involved more or who are returning to the sport after a super long time like me.
A skiing vacation is cheaper in Europe (or Japan) than at the big resorts in USA and Canada. Airfares, about equal in price (with European destinations frequently cheaper). Car rental? Cheaper in Europe (fuel frequently more expensive Europe). Lodging? Much better deals in Europe for a 1 week stay walking distance to a lift--and European lodging usually includes breakfast. Dining? A cheese burger and fries at a typical North American ski cafeteria costs more than a meal served at the table slope side at a European ski area. Lift tickets? That one day lift ticket price at Vail will just about buy a week's worth of world class skiing (with as little as 24 hour advanced purchase) in Europe or Japan. Ski equipment rental run about ½ price. And in Europe, the price you see is the price you pay!
I make a decent living and have been skiing for 50 years.....I would and will NEVER pay that much for a ski pass. Maybe my skiing days are over for me and my family. Its fun...but simply not worth it.
Colorado has fantastic skiing available at a steep discount to the Chic, international tourist destinations like Vail. My favorite is Loveland. Besides amazing skiing, lots of snow, and more reasonable prices, Loveland is much easier to get to, is visited mostly by people who are instate or from nearby states, gets excellent skiers, less crowded, is not so much of a ski fashion show, and is not a sprawling Disney World condo development. I think that Vail mostly offers snob appeal, bragging rights and brand name recognition.
Loveland was always our October skiing destination when I lived in Colorado because it gets early snow. Like you mention, it is also very easy to get to being right of I-70; however, for advanced skiers, the limited terrain and shorter slopes get dull after a few times on the mountain. Once the snow was good on all the all the Summit County slopes, we drove over the pass to A-basin.
15:56 you forgot Perisher, Pretty Valley and Perisher Quad Express are both high speed detachable quad's completed in 1987 & 1986 respectively. The entire Vail Resorts Australia operation is quite old besides the soon to be completed Mt Perisher 6 pack, a $16M project
CORRECTION: We erroneously characterized Capital Expenses (CapEx) as expenses in the "Other Expenses" category of Vail Resorts' P&L Statement at 8:23. Turns out CapEx isn't actually an expense at all 🙂
This might be a bit confusing if you're not from a finance background, but here's why:
CapEx is technically the funds used to purchase acquisitions, new lifts, etc. So this line item is actually an asset on the Balance Sheet - and does not play a part in Vail's Net Income.
"Other Expenses" include purchases that typically happen on a one-off basis and are hard to group with another typical line item for the business. It might include things like one-time legal fees or settlements, unusual maintenance costs (e.g., an unexpected bullwheel replacement for a 30-year-old lift), or losses on investments.
Capital expenses are assets that are depreciated or amortized (items that are expensed over the life of the asset versus fully expensed when paid - they have a useful life). Going forward, revenue per employee could be an interesting metric to trend and review. If it trended higher and higher, it could mean short staffing and lower service.
Hi. You missed Crystal Ridge Express at WB. 1994 Poma originally installed as Harmony on Whistler and relocated to Blackcomb in 2013.
@@rachelwilson5292CapEx is Capital Expenditures. This is a cashflow statement item, not P&L. In terms of income, it means nothing. Lots of misinformation here. Glad the OP is trying to make corrections. This sort of analysis should really be done by a CPA.
We (three guys) went to Switzerland for a ski trip last January. Ski pass in St. Moritz was about $55 a day (sleep and ski deal), while staying at the All in One Hotel in Celerina (next to St. Moritz) for less than $100 per night, per person. Even with the plane ticket of $800, and some train rides, it was cheaper than driving to Vail and skiing for a week. Did I mention the spectacular Alps?
Don't tell people!
@@ChrisTurchin Exactly! I was unaware that it was that affordable, now I want to go.
And you're talking about Switzerland, which is far more expensive than France, Austria and Italy
@@cowymtber don't worry though, Vail Corp has also figured this out and is trying to buy up Europe too
@@ChrisTurchinwe actually started out at Andermatt, which is owned by...... Yeah, those guys lol.
coming from a finance background...I figure Vail will eventually price itself out of business. Are they close to bankruptcy? No. Is it a good stock to own? No, unless you bought and held over ten years ago. They can only price themselves out of trouble for a period of time. I think you should make this an annual video to check up on the state of the industry.
It is priced as a luxury good. Rich people might just pay for less crowds. I haven't been to many vail resorts but whistler is packed with 300$ day pass.
Is this financial advice 😏😏😏
It may go the way of golf. I have some family who are big into golf and when they told me how much they paid skiing seemed downright cheap. Since you work in finance you know there is no shortage of very well off people.
Curious your thoughts. They do own all of the real estate. Haven’t ran a valuation on them, but I’m imagining their book value is incredibly misleading. And that is worth something
@@j.p.6228 They do own real estate, such as base areas, hotels, etc. but they do not own the mountains themselves. These are leased from the forest service with a hefty payment annually.
Vail has ruined skiing. It is unaffordable for a family ski vacation now. Lift tickets and paying for parking is it of control
Lift tickets have never been more accessible… Vail fucks a lot of things up but ski ticket prices are incredibly affordable if you just buy them ahead of time
You should have to pay for parking on one of the most valuable tracts of land in the country
@@patrickdressler9966 all the big resorts in the rockies are on public federally-owned land. the value of it is a totally moot point.
@@patrickdressler9966the parking price should be included in the ticket price. How many people are accessing the mountain without a car.
@@Zeethos if your a flat lander who just wants to slide around a bit and look at the pretty mountains for a few days getting a pass is stupid expensive too. As a good skier perhaps that brightens your day, but I think of it as elitism. Skiing is fun and people should be able to just enjoy themselves in nature without such a hefty price to entry.
Just like with any other industry, things seem to be better with smaller companies competing rather then massive conglomerates owning everything.
There’s no way the independents can afford the capital improvements needed to keep a ski area competitive. The independents in California (Bear Valley, Sierra at Tahoe) are struggling because they don’t have the money for new lifts, updated lodges or even paving the parking lots. It’s tough business.
@@wallyballou7417Sierra is now under ikon😭
@@Nate_Higgins the increased need for snowmaking in much of the US has made competing as an independent extremely difficult. Independents are always going to be at a massive disadvantage with regards to access to capital for investment/improvement and that is before you actually pay to make snow.
Its always better consumers. Its only worse for bigger companies when you lose consumer confidence.
@wallyballou7417 European resorts have been doing that for nearly a century, and they are far more modern than their US counterparts. The difference is the ownership structure. Most resorts in Europe are locally owned so they have the incentive to keep skiing viable in the long term
Was offered a free condo in telluride for 3 nights. Did the calculation without owning an Epic pass. It came to around $1500 for two of us to ski. Doesn’t include flights or food etc. Could easily spend 3k for basically a couple of days of skiing. Add the condo and it’s 5k? That is literally the definition of insanity.
Living in Germany, I could book spontaneously in the middle of the season to let’s say Kitzbühel (posh resort), into a 4* hotel for about 900€ for 3 nights for 2 persons. + 3 day ski pass ca. 430€ for also 2 persons.
US is mad 😱
Looks like you're basically forced to get the special passes if you don't want to lose money on single tickets.
Fly to Italy..
I hear you and that’s Telluride, an exclusive price locked / pass-level locked top resort. Just to round out examples, I have ~20 days of vrbo’s locked up for $6k across Crested Butte, Vail, Beav Creek, and Breck for this season. I paid $1.4k for my wife’s and my epic local pass. My K-5 kids ski for free on Epic’s CO kids pass (4x days at Breck, Vail, Keystone, BC, and CB). So we will get ~20 days this year for about $6k lodging, $1.4k in season passes, and skiing for 4 people. That’s 80 individual ticketed days of skiing for a daily ticket/lodging cost of
@@robertfrey1105we no talking about Germany....😂
The corporate strategy of monopolizing an entire strategy and price gouging the consumer needs to end
its obviously the immigrants and trans peoples fault /s
it cannot and will not ever end, that's just late stage capitalism. it will only stop when the entire system comes crashing down
@@hogcranker123 Luckily Veil resorts only owns ONE resort in Utah. They own Park City now...a great mountain...which they are driving into the ground by neglecting maintenance. It's now the worst run ski resort in the state. Terrible! Tourists don't know better so they still ski Park City but locals have figured it out. It's just not a well run company.
@@TrendyStone I remember paying $15 to ski Park West (now part of Park City) in the early '90s. Skiflation is obscene.
@ True. I’m old enough to remember when Brighton and Solitude were $7 for a day pass.
$1500 for a day of ski school!?? My kid better be Shaun White by sunset
You are kidding me. Was that for 1 person ?
That price better come with some Mountain Dews, baby!
Done with skiing in the US. Its cheaper and better to fly to Europe to ski. Next year Mont Blanc for cheaper than Colorado after all costs. Travel and lodging
Don’t let the door hit ya :)
we dont want you americans here. fix your shit at home.
I wisher that were true...but the flight alone is going to set you back lol.
@TooDaft yes on the flights. depends on the timing. Perhaps about 300 to 500 more. You are saving probably $100 to 200 per day on the skiing and lodging.
stay out of the alps. We don't want even more americans clogging up the mountains.
Got a mountain ⛰, a snowmobile, and a rope with a porta potty. Better hurry before Vail buys me out.😎
Yeah enjoy the free accomodation before theres a cc on the potty.
I used to teach snowboarding at Mount Snow in Vermont when it was a great mountain with wonderful midweek deals where you could buy a lift ticket for 50 bucks or under. Vail completely ruined it. I wish they would go bankrupt and leave everyone alone and mountains could get back to normal.
It will happen, but will take time. They will get bailed out though, before everything in US resets.
Yup, I miss the sport as it was before Vail. Wanted to teach my kids, but its not affordable like it was when I was learning in middle school..
They’ve made skiing for those who only go a couple times a year not really feasible because of their high costs. I personally didn’t renew my season pass because they raised the price for no apparent reason.
I think they are raising prices as they need to make money in shorter windows in New England the snow is seemingly gone terrible ski seasons. They have less opportunity to sell and it’s busy when they are open and no lack of people lining up to pay
Epic Day Passes are the way to go though for cheap lift access if you’re skiing 7 or fewer days
I don’t think they actually care about people who only ski a couple times a year. They target people like my friends and I who have the ski virus bad and have to ski. Not skiing is not an option. Count your self fortunate that you can stop skiing and not lose your mind. I plan on skiing until I am dead. If it snows in hell I will ski there too.
I snowboard and have the same bug. Luckily I’m in Tahoe and have many options. This is my first season without one of the big passes. This year I opted only for a Sierra at Tahoe pass. Lucky for me what I find fun doesn’t require a big resort. Hopefully my experience isn’t ruined with Sierra’s partnership with ikon.
@@mtadams2009 I don’t think you’re their target audience at all. They want delusional people who think they’re going to ski 10 days but end up only skiing 5. Really they’re just huge real estate companies that use skiing as their killer app
As a European, the day ticket passes prices are insane!
I went to Big Sky Montana a few years ago and if you didn’t already have tickets a single lift ticket for one day was $1200. $650 if you were there on a weekday. Unreal.
@@s81n That's insane! Especially considering most of the costs for running the lifts are fixed.
@pistolen87 It's also not true. I just looked and Big Sky's highest lift ticket for holidays looked to be about $275 USD for a holiday (they had it online as 270 discounted from 275 for January 1st). There is a private club next door called the Yellowstone Club that I thought was member's only but may have some sort of guest fee, that may be what OP saw. Either that or they were pricing a private lesson or rental/lesson/ticket and maybe lodging combo... or are just a liar.
@@Nomer77 it is absolutely true. You need to wait until the season starts and check again in the same month you want to go. You will see those prices on Saturdays and Sundays.
@@s81n Big Sky surge prices tickets? No where on the internet I can find backs this up. It is expensive, yes. And they've done shady things with having to pay extra for tram access over the years (including with tram access for different tiers of season passes). But they do not have the most expensive lift ticket in North America (this very channel covers such a topic pretty regularly as does a lot of online ski media). And that definitely don't charge over a grand for a single day ticket.
Ever since I got back into the sport in 2020 (I know...what a time) I have been skiing independent. First at Loveland...now with Monarch. Can't beat the prices. Plus all the free days at other resorts are SO underrated. As a side note, my son and I own a small business that is trying to break into the ski/snowboard space. Monarch welcomed us with open arms. We can't even get a phone number to call to talk to someone with Vail resorts. lol
When you call Vail Resorts you always get some foreigner with imperceptible English. Epic pass and Mammoth pass holder. Vail Resorts is a joke.
I bought a Cooper pass it's good for Cooper Monarch and Loveland. It was a bargain in comparison.
Monarch is such a beautiful place. Skiing there is a great experience.
Loveland was our go to place in the eighties
Someone else who completely understands! Like, sure, Vail and Breck have amazing terrain, but it's literally EVERYTHING else about the experience there that makes me keep going back to Monarch or Loveland. Hoping we get Eldora back soon, too.
Vail Resorts are simply not worth the money they charge now. Ski at the family owned places, the way it should be.
I go to Seymour, mostly because it's private owned, and tickets are afforable.
If you ski a lot and have an ability to travel, Epic Pass is undeniably better value than a local hill pass.
If you kinda like skiing 3 times a year, $65 day pass at your local hill is a better deal.
@@SlavaEremenko Not worth my time or money to stand in long lines at all the Epic and Ikon ski areas. Frankly I would rather my money go to my local place, family owned than stand in line at Vail or or where ever..
You did an impressive amount of research for this-can’t wait to see Peak Rankings pass 200K subscribers!
Can confirm it was a lot of research
Research? They basically just read the earnings report
Vail is actively ruining the ski industry. I live on the east coast and make a pretty decent income but its almost impossible for me to justify spending nearly $3k just to have 4 or 5 days of good skiing per year. Even if I wanted to stay more local and go to Vermont, a day pass is nearly (or over) $200. These prices are absolutely insane I dont know how they expect people to keep up with this. Last year I went to Pico (based off of your Vermont ranking video) and it was an enjoyable time at a fair price. Its the only place around that doesnt charge an arm and a leg. I remember I used to go skiing mutiple times per year and spend $40 for a day pass......I miss those days
Buy a pass
Still expensive even with a free pass
Those days are for skiing and basically every other pastime are over. Stop going to epic and ikon (pico) resorts. Or they will end up owning everything.
@@newagain9964 Unfortunately, there are fewer indy resorts around these days. Take up backcountry skiing.
@@ericd8739 agreed. And cross country. Most ppl wanted better ski sites and experiences, the big two gave it to them and now they’re all complaining.
Ski areas often do a cost plus valuation of lift tickets. So instead of pricing for affordability, they figure their costs, and just increase. This is like the small business that wants to charge consumers full retail prices. Sadly we don't have a Walmart of ski areas to come in and challenge these high prices. I recommend to all skiers that are fed up with these prices is to boycott these ski areas, and patronize smaller areas. Also, trash these high prices on social media and at ski shops etc, until they get the message.
It's more complicated. If you ski a lot and live near a "competitive" area like Tahoe, the Epic Pass is the Walmart of passes. For example it was cheaper in 2022/2023 to buy an Epic Pass which gave me access to three Tahoe resorts, plus access to Whistler for a ski vacation, than it was to buy a pass at an independent resort. (Epic pass with blackout days vs independent resort pass with weekdays only.)
Go to smaller areas and enjoy your time. There is more integrity in that than going to Breck and complaining online as soon as you get home.
But In my opinion, $1000 Epic Pass is a great value proposition and the smallest expense of a trip. A cold AirBnb for one week, 3 bus transfers away from the resort - will cost you more.
If you are fed up with US lift ticket prices and the crowds, simply head to the Alps. Lift tickets are about $60m per day, slighpy more at the most prestigious places. The food is great. The scenery is way better than the US and the after party is awesome.
Agree on the lift ticket prices. Probably mostly due to liability insurance costs . The other stuff I guess comes down to personal preferences. In addition crowds and lift lines can be and ARE crazy in Europe.
@@trevorsyversen9956 liability and also lift tickets not including rescue services. Plus with huge areas, they can sell lots of tickets without crowding too badly
No question the scenery is on average totally superior in Europe, and ticket price savings will easily pay for the extra flight costs from the U.S. I think in Europe the company top management isn't trying to retire on a couple years' wages.
While this is true, the snow conditions are really sketchy. With such huge areas, they get neglected by the groomers. But if you like icy moguls all the time, it might be for you.
"Simply go to the Alps". You really wrote that. If a family lives anywhere in the U.S. and loves family skiing, transportation to the Rockies or the Sangre de Christos is very reasonable. World class skiing is scattered throughout these areas .Flights to these areas are inexpensive when booked in advance and highways are free. The time and effort to reach the ski destination is no more than a 12-hour trip. A passport is not required. English is spoken. The Alps, as hopefully many skiers know, are in France, Austria, and Northern Italy. Transportation is expensive, time consuming, and physically draining. A passport is required, which at the very least is a time consuming pain in the rear to obtain. Although English is spoken throughout all resort regions of the Alps, American visitors have been made to feel unwelcome even before Trump was elected. So, why are the Alps a "simple" solution to high U.S. lift ticket prices? I see that some comments say that flying to Europe and skiing at, say Mont Blanc in France is cheaper than going to Colorado. If that is true, how can that be true? Am I missing something?
As a European who has had the privilege to ski some of Europe's biggest and best resorts (3 Valleys, Tignes-Val D, Val Gardena) it shocks me to hear when people in US pay 300, 350 Dollars PER DAY!!. Often in Europe, you can buy a hotel + ski pass for the whole week for 400-600 Euros/person for a 4-6 people apartment during peak season in resorts like Val Thorens. The fact that Vail is failing (or atleast I hope it is) makes me very happy and hopefully a step in the right direction to get rid of greed that is taking over skiing (which is already an expensive hobby).
I haven't skied in 30 years. It just got too expensive.
I live in the Midwest and after living and skiing in Idaho when I was in the USAF it was really difficult to find good skiing here.
I tried but got bored in about a half hour.
I could drive 4 to 6 hours and ski the U.P. of Michigan but between gas, hotel, and luft tickets that would be once a year.
I can't imagine a family of 4 trying to get into skiing.
When Vail bought Stevens Pass in WA state, day ticket prices went way up, service went waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy down. I began boycotting their resorts and now ride at a locally owned mountain. I couldn't be happier.
@@napoland9676 crying from outside the club
@@KSThumper The locally-owned mountain is way better, probably just a 30-minute longer drive. I won't mention it by name so it stays less crowded.
@@teacherguy5084 i ski weekdays so crowds arent really a problem. i enjoy the local hills but there isnt enough variety for 70-100+ ski days, and buying 3 passes aint it.
As a passholder in the Northeast, I think my biggest criticism is that they don't spend the money on snowmaking and operations. Especially for the front half of the season last year conditions were pretty terrible for natural snow. Wildcat/Attitash were pretty much limited to a single top to bottom trail until MLK day. Sunday River about 30 minutes to the east was at about 100 trails in that window, exclusively on the back of snowmaking, despite suffering catastrophic flood damage in December. Even when it finally snowed, the man-made base (or lack thereof) made a huge difference in conditions.
I also skied Vail last year on a non-powder day last year. The groomed terrain was very limited and and congested like an interstate highway. The off-piste was packed out and pushed up to about where you expect without fresh snowfall. Overall pretty disappointing.
Vails lack of care for the north east is one of the reasons why I stopped buying epic passes.
@MountainMan9712 yeah, I wouldn't have picked one up this year except I ski 2-3 days in Colorado with a friend who moved to Denver. My local group also booked at an epic mountain. The way they set it up I can't just buy 3 Days at the new England rate and 3 Days at the CO rate (2x the price). You have to buy all 6 days at the highest rate, and at that point the "epic local" pass is only an extra $100 for unlimited East Coast with no blackouts except Stowe.
There are still plenty of mom and pop ski areas around for an affordable no bs skiing. They may not be mega hills but they generally wont have mega lift lines either if u can avoid weekends and other peak days.
I refer skiing at ikon/epic resorts as urban skiing.
Not really. Its still like 600-700 for a pass to a single mountain
@@Bozopackmaybe somewhat true out west for a pass but the if u just ski occasionally there are areas that will save u money for day tickets like sunlight powderhorn ski cooper etc but not true in the east. Where u can buy day tickets for $100 or less.
@@diver3444 100$ for a day ticket is insane. What do u think im gonna spend 10000$ on lift tickets for the year?? No. Am i going to spend 100 days at a single east coast mountain?? No.
Sure, mom-n-pop hill day pass is better for people who hardly ski or brand new skiers.
Everyone else - nope.
@@SlavaEremenko u didn’t mention what area of the country ur from but in Colorado there plenty of challenge at sunlight powderhorn ski cooper mt wolf creek to name a few. If money is no object… paid parking expensive food drink etc then great.
I now ski in NH at Cannon mt which is one of the most challenging hills in the east owned by the state and bare bones and I enjoy it as much as vail/beaver creek/aspen.
The question becomes how many new skiers are added to the industry every year. I volunteered at a small mountain on the east coast as an ambassador and that was what they were concerned about. Years ago snowboarding saved the ski industry bc it added new people to the mountain. Now with ticket prices so high, families don’t try skiing bc there are so many other cheaper options.
Whister/Blackcomb just released the new price for a standard lift ticket this season of $330 CAD...FU Vail
Ouch!
The pricing is set to disincentivize everyone from buying a day ticket and motivate people to buy a season pass, which is a pretty good deal actually.
It’s a product that is technically not made to buy.
Unrestricted day passes are starting at $151 CAD if you buy by 11/17/24.
@@AO-uc7zq I have an Edge card, I'm good. Good luck to anyone who doesn't!
They have no significant model for growth other than raising prices and accretive acquisitions. That is not a stock to buy.
That executive pay compensation to median worker ratio is insane. In Europe, it’s 10:1 to 15:1 in most ski resort companies and indoor snowdome operators
16M of vails visitors were actually at vail on Saturdays
Facts
I’ve seen vids of lift lines, I’m not envious.
blame an average work week, not Vail lol
Gave up skiing 5 years ago. When I started skiing in the 80s, a lift ticket was $25. The elites that run private equity basically destroyed skiing for the average person.
Every resort they bought, the prices went sky high. I quit skiing a few years ago because the value wasn't there. $150-$200 for a lift ticket and you spend half the day (6 hours) in lines. Food is out of the question.
Great.
Even during the summer it’s insane. I was biking at Snowshoe WV and it was $40 for a burger fries and a drink. The lift tickets are only $60 though
This is good information! I follow business and the stock market closely and I just wanted to add a couple things.
-The stock price chart looks similar to a lot of other companies: gains in Q2 2020-2021 and then down/sideways in 2022-2023. Vail is significantly behind the market in 2024, which has performed well.
-Weather is a lousy excuse companies use for bad fiscal results, although accurate in this case. FY23 saw huge snow totals in most regions and FY24 was possibly the worst the company has seen. I was at Northstar in March 2023 and the outside deck on the highest lodge was closed because it had 18 ft of snow on it that couldn't possibly be moved anywhere.
-The sky is not falling for this company, although this doesn't feel like a buying opportunity to me either.
Didn't watch the whole video but the first half made me think of Disney. Crowded lifts make for bad experiences, so if you can raise the price, lose some customers but still gain in revenue and income while delivering a better product (less crowded lifts), companies consider this a win.
I think you're right. I haven't been to Disneyland since I was a kid and don't feel the need to ever go back, so it's weird hearing people who go on complaining about how expensive Disney is now and how crowded it is, yet it seems like they feel COMPELLED to go there regardless, as if it's a requirement to make the Hajj to the Mecca of Disney World/Land every few years. I got this video as a random recommendation as a non-skiier: I'm just someone who likes learning about how businesses are run. With that said, I'm glad to see many of those in the comments here showing a different attitude, refusing to go to Vail resorts and opting to instead visit independently run ski resorts who still offer their customers value.
I've transitioned from mostly downhill to mostly XC skiing. Cost and lines are now avoided.
I have been an epic pass holder for a decade and i was somewhat happy with it. Until last year when they de-prioritized terrain park facilities around the country. Some of the most iconic parks in the country were neutered to 1/3 of their size/amount of features.
Skiing in the USA is both crazy crowded and unaffordable. I don’t understand how there are so many rich people on the mountain.
Only if you are going Epic or iKon. The indie places are still affordable.
Corporate junkets must account for some of it (?)
Black rock of skiing and winter sports
Perhaps they should use the Netflix model. Keep lift prices low but stream ads while riding the lifts 😢
Haha. $950 for unlimited at Vail, Beaver, Keyster, Breck, Park City. No way I don’t buy that every year for every family member
Heard recently, "skiing has never been more affordable and less accessible for most people." Walk-ups are ridiculous, but there are always people willing to pay for the day...pretty wild stuff
I don't know if they are done...but Vail Resorts ruined Park City Utah after acquiring it. It's a great mountain but they cut the maintenance staff dramatically to improve profitability and the lifts are always breaking down. That means entire sections of the mountain closed, the best terrain unavailable after a snowstorm and the chance you'll get stuck on a broken lift which happened to us twice! Sitting up in the air for >1 hour in a snowstorm with your kids is not a great experience. And during covid it was the only resort in the state of Utah that required you to show proof of vaccination just to enter a lodge/restaurant. No other resort in the state of Utah engaged in this Colorado virtue signal stupidity. We now buy a season pass to Snow Basin and a haven't looked back.
VR charging $1.5k for ski school when the instructor is making $15 an hour for a 8 hour day is criminal.
It could just be the Ski industry as a whole. I don’t ski but i have noticed insane deals from Evo, trying to still offload last seasons gear.
Thats normal thing at this time of year
@ not usually. They come off sale before the resorts start opening up so they can bring prices back down on black Friday. At least thats what happens with snowboards.
I lived in Vail from '70-'76 and as student, my ski pass was $25 A YEAR! It went up to $40 ~'74. Had lots of good times and memories, but I'd never live there again, even if I could afford it.
Publicly traded companies ruin everything… they are legally required to squeeze as much money out of its operations as possible just for some rich investors.
Only if they are allowed to squeeze out competition.
@ It gives them every incentive to do that.
@@jimmyisawkward - Of course, and the incentive for regulators to stop them doing so.
@ yeah, that just creates incentives for corporations to corrupt the government to reduce regulations.
In 1966 Mission Ridge opened 12 miles from Wenatchee, WA. East (dry) side of Cascades. It was $5/day, $100-ish for year pass. Huge area with 2000+ ft.vertical, no lift lines, 300 days of sunshine. Skied every weekend all season. + Lots of good tiny local ski hills in NorthWest. Those were the days..
Vail Resorts has completed syphoned the soul out of ski towns across the world
We used to train the kids on the sport but it's not feasible anymore so sad.
I'm glad I am 76 y.o. I come from the era of $10 to $50 per day lift tickets. I'll live with my great memories of a fifty-year skiing career. Good luck on that $369 lift ticket.
Shut up
Yep, I skied Vail, Breckenridge and Copper Mtn back in 1976. Sun up and Sun down bowls at Vail were the coolest place I ever skied
Leaving the world worse than you found it isn't the flex you think it is... typical old POS
Yes and I will be watching from the sidelines with a big tub of popcorn🍿
I remember going to Vail in 2004 and thinking $85 per day for a lift ticket was insane. Especially when everywhere else was $50-60. So mental what it is now.
As a long term Epic holder in the Tahoe area I’ve seen a decline in the infrastructure and maintenance to buildings or the lack there of.. as a contractor in the Bay Area their buildings are worn down and the Lifts. Kirkwood is my goto hill. Heavenly 2nd. Now with the advent of pre paid parking and reservations it’s ruined the spontaneous day trip to the mountain on the weekend. When the Pow Pow is low it’s the locals and faithful that keep you afloat during low pow storms. With parking reservations and fees they have ruined it and it’s all a money grab now. While I can afford it , it’s just a bad squeeze of all of us. KW is the red headed stepchild of Vail and hasn’t got anything new in 10 years and longer. The roads and buildings are run down and crap. While they have the Epic trackers at each lift. The hand wands that these lift employees assault you with are terrible. They really want that ping and almost hit you with these wands or guns to get that ping. While I love the power pow you can see the money grab by Vail each year and their product is dying on the vine.
@@BCDfunstuff1999 the paid parking is only weekends and peak days at Kirk… not exactly spontaneous day trip days.
I live in Ohio, mad river is my closest resort. I go out of my way to go to the family owned mountain a bit more north because vail has made the prices unreasonable to ski/snowboard in Ohio. 80 dollars for a day pass in Ohio where the elevation is
alterra and the introduction of the ikon pass in '18-19 completely changed solitude and traffic in big cottonwood canyon forever. used to have a season pass at solitude for at least 10 years but stopped that after '22-'23. i'm a backcountry splitboarder so in bcc quite a bit but you gotta get there early or its too late, and getting out of that canyon is no treat. i can only ski silverfork from the bcc side on mon-thur because they charge you for parking on the road outside of solitude fri-sat-sun. that was new last year along with not letting you park on the road outside of spruces trailhead. heard alterra bought a-basin so ikon and paid parking this year. they're gonna hate that shit. will be interesting to see how that place changes. it's a shame b/c it has such a cool vibe.
Wow. I don't know where Vail is going with this, but the big decrease in upgrading lifts has raised a lot of questions. As an Utah local, I am happy they are upgrading Sunrise, but seeing Vail's downgrade in lift upgrades is a bit dissapointing, especially for many areas needing upgrades. Alterra on the other hand is on a mad dash with installing almost 10 lifts in 2 years at Deer Valley, alone and is now the big ringleader in lift upgrades along with Boyne.
Using public money. That's how Deer Valley gets upgraded. I would also install lifts if you paid for it.
My local northeast mountain season pass is over $1000. I buy an epic pass and ski around the world. The daily everywhere is insane.
0:40 what run is this and where?
Over Yonder trees at Vail!
Is there a reason there was no Mountain Biking stuff listed or separated?
I didn't know you had it in you! Excellent breakdown, I love it. Good skier and with numbers. wow. Do one on Powdr now. I used to work for them as an instructor at Mt. Bachelor. Thanks for your videos, very entertaining.
Unfortunately the other mega corps don’t release their financials publicly, but we’re thinking about highlighting why Powdr is selling off so many resorts!
Wow! Glad this showed up in my feed. Nice dissection :) I live at a non-vail resort that is not publicly traded and I suspect something similar is taking place at this resort, also. In 2022, a burger at the resort owned cafeteria was $15 CAD. It shot up to $25 CAD the following year. And, that doesn't include cafeteria fries. With fries and tax, the price tops just over $30 CAD. It also seems the resort is no longer struggling to recruit staff, which was a major problem from 2020-23. Rents are still high, but the resort owns and controls most staff housing, so that is not a surprise.
Are executive salaries and bonuses included in wages ? Or is that different?
About 30 years ago the saying (meme today): Crusty Butt (Crested Butte), what Telluride used to be, what Aspen never was. They all are Aspen now.
$230 for a lift ticket here in Australia.
Epic pass is $1000
You can do it cheap if you are willing to do day trips ( I live 2 hours away) and share travel costs with friends. But if you want to take a family to the snow for a weekend, hire some stuff, lessons, eat and drink you will need to drop $4k
And you're not going to do that unless you're wealthy AND you already know how to ski reasonably well.
They can cash in on existing enthusiasts, but the next generation of skiers will not exist.
The average cost of weekend skiing in Canada...
Lift tix: $400
Hotel: $500
Food: $250
$1150/person/weekend, not including fuel.
When I first started skiing Vail ( you better sit down for this ) a day lift ticket was $9.00. We thought that was outrageous then. Please the world needs the 70's back again. It was a fabulous time of sanity.
If ski tickets inflated per the Consumer Price Index (CPI) from 1971, those tickets would be about $60 today.
I lived there for a couple seasons in the 90s. An entire season pass was $400. There was a Chinese joint in town where you could get lunch for $7.
@@Cucumberflavoredmustard I hear you. I long for those times again. I bet you had a great time ! There is nothing like the Colorado Mountain Lifestyle. Blessings !
Ronald Reagan buried the 70s. We are paying for it now. 40 years of trickle down and flood up to the top.
I work at a Vail resort. A smaller one. We have about 5 lifts that are reaching the end of their life.
It’s not a drop in skier numbers….day lift tickets cost over $200, whereas a season pass cost $1000…anyone buying a pass will already have gear and the occasional skier won’t go too many days for that price. Thus, the rental market will struggle. As food, lodging, and other expenses continue to go sky high, many people will pack lunch and I personally use a generator for heat and sleep in my SUV. I try my best not to spend a penny at Vail, Breckenridge, etc. That said, when I ski a small place (cooper, monarch, sunlight) I get a room nearby and I eat out locally. If people come with a strict budget, then high lift ticket prices are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I have skied Whistler-Blackcomb many times from the early 90s to 2017. Chances of me paying C$329 (todays price) for a day of skiing crowded slopes are zero. Or maybe the crowded lines are gone at these prices?
Just like to add, Perisher Australia is seeing a new chair being installed now for the 2025 season. A 6 pack chair on Mt Perisher.
It will take the crown from Thredbo being Australia's highest lifted spot.
Also Australia Epic Pass went up, starting at $AUD 999 but since gone up like 50 bucks and they also introduced a 4 Day Pass for the 2025 season which is aimed at more price sensitive buyers.
The writings on the wall for Australian skiing which has always been marginal at best. I like their confidence in investing in lift infrastructure but Australia really has to be the bottom of priorities when you have seasons that ended like last one with the last month of winter practically being end of spring type conditions. Its shocking to me having lived near the mountains since the mid 80s just how few proper cold outbreaks and fronts come through in winter now. They would be totally screwed without snowmaking
Yer when is Thredbo giving us the bell might go pick it up this weekend
And yes last season was not the best
But it started well and I still got some great days in
Yer maybe climate change will destroy skiing but I’m making the most of it
@@Mmm-y5w8o I bet you, they wont even allow you to take the chair. You'll have to lug it down the hill or just drag it via Kosci.
These prices are wild. Growing up in Portland Oregon, since I owned my own gear and could drive up for night ski and bring my own meal, the whole trip would cost ~$50.
It's not just Vail, companies across the US is laying off people left right and center... winter is comming
Yes, companies are always laying off AND hiring. Nothing new here.
Vail is unusually rapacious.
Before watching this video, this is my take. Skiing has historically been an elite sport. Meaning the wealthy had access while most others did not. In the 90's and early 2000's it became much more accessible. Big Money saw more people and thought more profit, but they in turn pushed out a lot of their target sales. Here is where I think the real problem is, though. Skiing historically survived catering to the elite. However, there was still a local population that played a role, even if 10/15% that is a huge margin. Big Money has looked past this demographic, thinking they can just transport workers seasonally. But it's not just the workers, if locals stop going to the cafeteria, the apres and bars. If they simply ski their one season pass, that is a huge amount of loss.
Then the vibe gets all wacky and if you're not a lifer at that mountain... you move.
That's my thoughts. Can't wait to see what yours are! Happy trails!
Skiing mostly at Beaver Creek, Vail tops, EPIC lift pass is the reason Vail is in trouble, most skiiers want a lift pass for one or two weeks, in the local area not the worlds resorts.
There are also a lot of fixed grip lifts that could do with an upgrade. Chair 4 at Kirkwood for a start.
Interesting "analysis" and great to get the conversation started. You might have missed the new gondola announcement at Breckenridge. That is a very needed and massive capital investment, but Vail could easily defer that investment.
Is there an equivalent analysis of Alterra and their complicit damage to the ski industry (yes loaded question)?
Alterra is not a public company and therefore doesn’t have to make annual filings of its financial results like Vail does.
Sadly, they do not have public financials.
@@PeakRankings It sure seems like there are financial investment analysis companies that could provide some sort of comparable overview of the ownership and profit loss statements, especially given that many of their properties are on Federal and State (public) owned lands (BLM, LA-DWP for example.
@@brianoconnor3407 if you have any good leads, we are happy to explore this!
"Vile resorts" ruined the industry! If they go under, best thing that could happen! They treat employees like crap! And it's worth your life to ski or ride on their over crowded runs!
Looking at vail’s portfolio of resorts I think a big part of the problem is they over spent on a lot of underperforming resorts like in the Midwest (as you pointed out) but also here in the west. Resorts like crested butte (while great for skiing) are not money makers and never have been. Alterra has been much more judicious about acquisitions. Vail is also pricing themselves as a luxury good and that market tends to be fickle no matter if you’re talking about cars or handbags. Big, family friendly mountains near big population centers is where the money is (eg tahoe, Breckenridge). I also question vails strategy of loading up on snow scarce mountains in places like Pennsylvania. Do those ski areas really get enough visitation to offset the variable snowfall or snow making conditions?
Who say's there's a problem? for the 2023 season their profit margin was 42%. Prob similar this past year.
Don't lose any sleep for them.
@ actually it was more like 17% based on operating income. And EPS has been flat for years. Not how you grow your share price.
For all the hate of Vail, the Epic pass is actually a pretty good deal if you ski regularly (6-10+ days a year). The walk up prices are ridiculous to be sure, but almost nobody pays those rates. Skiing’s always been expensive and it obviously costs a lot to run a ski area, but I feel like skiing is still a pretty decent value compared to Disneyland, a cruise or a lot of other tourist attractions. Think about the price of things like a zip-line ride, horseback riding, boat rental, etc. Everything’s expensive! Vail is also known for recruiting veterans and the employees I’ve interacted with have been on the ball and generally helpful.
20 ski days is $50 ski day with an epic pass.
@@wallyballou7417 people would rather wait until a week before their trip to buy passes then blame vail like there wasnt a 4 month sale in the summer
5 days on the mountain and your "Local Pass" is paid for.
Reports are they pay their instructors about 10 to 15% of the ski school revenue. It's essentially a purely labor business - no cost of materials - so profit margin after managers is likely 75%, or 5 to 7 times direct labor. That's unconscionable. I've heard Aspen used to pay twice as much of the revenue to instructors, don't know if it's true.
@@teacherguy5084 They even make the instructors buy their own uniforms. I don't know how they get away with that. Typically if the company name or logo appears on the garment, the employer must foot the bill.
There's an annual ski and snowboard swap sale in my hometown, and it made me think about getting back into skiing. Then realized I was way too broke to get back into such an expensive hobby.
I'm purposely avoiding Vail resorts for all ski vacations. I can only spend 1 week a year for a Ski vacation and the same day lift ticket or multi days are way to expensive. I can't Ski enough to get a Epic pass, so I just avoid them all together.
I live nest to PCMR Vail will always be around, as long as we allow them to charge $42 for a frozen patty cheeseburger fries and coke.
Its like eating at the airport or disney, you have no choice but to bring sandwiches of you rown and buy a 20 oz soda for $7
I'm 92 and Vail priced me out of my favoite ski resort, Okemo. I was so sorry to see the Mullers sell. The Vail Corp. also purchased one of my local resort Jack Frost in Pennsylvania. A small local ski resort can not be operated like a mega ski resort. A small resort can't support the over head of the mega resort.
So glad my family got to experience this before it got out of hand…. They’ve lost me as a customer
There are many ski resorts in Utah, and most of them are not Vail. The smaller the resort, the cheaper the cost. For example, children aged 3-12 ski free, and all-day tickets cost around $30. Even lift tickets at larger resorts like Snowbird are only $185, and Brighton's range from $89-$120.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, they can pretty much charge whatever they want and people will still come. This is still chump change for people with disposable income.
Which resort is that at 6:53? Almost looks like Chamomix. :)
Hate to break it to you, that’s actually Vail 🥲
Great analysis on all variables! Vail Resorts is in for a horrible storm (no pun intended) in the next few years. I believe there will be some great deals coming soon to own some ski resorts that Vail is forced to sell.
Once they can't buy anymore, they better start to think about retention rates and treating employees better .
Don't know about other areas but Sun Valley has a couple of people-friendly small ski areas nearby. Soldier Mt. and Pomerelle. Sure the terrain is limited, but prices are great and Pomerelle, being on the Idaho-Nevada border, benefits from the southerly winds that collide with the cold fronts coming in from the northwest coast, claims to get the most snow of any place in Idaho. Also its hard to put a price on not feeling ripped-off.
I worked at Beaver Creek winter of 17/18 as a liftie. I think they paid us 12.50/hr and rent to live on property was $400/month. I did it to ski and it made me realize there's more to life than skiing.
Corporate greed kills companies and ruins everything.
Why I appreciate independent mountains and the Indy Pass even more. Lift tickets shouldn't break the bank.
I have a pass at Crested Butte which Vail bought a couple years ago.
They won't even take cash anymore.
😊
I like how it prices out most people and stays less busy. Good for me!
Growing up riding Mad River Mountain in Ohio, I’ve seen how much the weather has changed over the years. Snow days I remember as a kid are a thing of the past, with each year bringing less and less snowfall. While that’s a significant challenge, it doesn’t let Vail off the hook for what’s happening at our resort.
Mad River used to have one of the best terrain parks in the Midwest, but since Vail took over, the focus has shifted from enhancing the rider experience to squeezing as much money as possible out of visitors. Lift ticket prices have skyrocketed, which makes no sense for a small Midwest resort like Mad River. It’s shocking that a single-day ticket now costs $80-and that’s not even including rentals.
To make matters worse, even when the resort is open, many of the runs aren’t fully operational, yet they still charge full price. It feels like Vail has no real interest in maintaining Mad River. For them, we’re just a tiny blip on their balance sheet. It’s heartbreaking to think our resort might not survive under this kind of ownership.
Vail’s takeover is the worst thing that could’ve happened to Mad River Mountain.
It is a shitty time for those newer skiiers and boarders trying to get involved more or who are returning to the sport after a super long time like me.
A skiing vacation is cheaper in Europe (or Japan) than at the big resorts in USA and Canada. Airfares, about equal in price (with European destinations frequently cheaper). Car rental? Cheaper in Europe (fuel frequently more expensive Europe). Lodging? Much better deals in Europe for a 1 week stay walking distance to a lift--and European lodging usually includes breakfast. Dining? A cheese burger and fries at a typical North American ski cafeteria costs more than a meal served at the table slope side at a European ski area. Lift tickets? That one day lift ticket price at Vail will just about buy a week's worth of world class skiing (with as little as 24 hour advanced purchase) in Europe or Japan. Ski equipment rental run about ½ price. And in Europe, the price you see is the price you pay!
I make a decent living and have been skiing for 50 years.....I would and will NEVER pay that much for a ski pass. Maybe my skiing days are over for me and my family. Its fun...but simply not worth it.
Colorado has fantastic skiing available at a steep discount to the Chic, international tourist destinations like Vail. My favorite is Loveland. Besides amazing skiing, lots of snow, and more reasonable prices, Loveland is much easier to get to, is visited mostly by people who are instate or from nearby states, gets excellent skiers, less crowded, is not so much of a ski fashion show, and is not a sprawling Disney World condo development. I think that Vail mostly offers snob appeal, bragging rights and brand name recognition.
Loveland was always our October skiing destination when I lived in Colorado because it gets early snow. Like you mention, it is also very easy to get to being right of I-70; however, for advanced skiers, the limited terrain and shorter slopes get dull after a few times on the mountain. Once the snow was good on all the all the Summit County slopes, we drove over the pass to A-basin.
15:56 you forgot Perisher, Pretty Valley and Perisher Quad Express are both high speed detachable quad's completed in 1987 & 1986 respectively. The entire Vail Resorts Australia operation is quite old besides the soon to be completed Mt Perisher 6 pack, a $16M project