As an archaeologist I find it interesting that Indians have become so interested in this field which in the academic world is a sleepy borough! We work in the field and research for years, publish and discuss at conferences... but are shy about speaking in public. On Harappans, my theory is that the two groups (Harappan & Vedic) co-existed within a larger group. After the collapse (caused by environment & western wars) these two groups migrated eastward into the heartland. Lots more to say but I'll stop and enjoy your take.
What the hell is Harappan? That is not even a legitimate word. The more I think the more I find the narrative attributed with Indian archeological findings nonsensical mumbo jumbo.
@@ambience9968 Bhai, Harappa was the first site which was excavated and a new ancient civilisation came to light. By International archaeological convention a civilisation takes its name from the first site and that is why it is referred to as Harappa Civilisation. I know it first became popular as Indus Valley Civilisation and as we discovered Saraswati river some started to call it Indus/Saraswati Civilisation.
Lajwantijee some fifty years ago I came to India looking for Lothal and found no one had a clue. I asked about its whereabouts to college students, learned people but none had heard about it. Finally I went to information office on Ashram Road in Ahmedabad. The front line had no clue either then. But they called out a senior person from inside. He knew. He directed me to take a train to Bhukhri station and then to catch a bullock cart if lucky otherwise walk 4.5 miles to the archaeological site. He said take water and food as there is nothing around. It was very hot and had just come from cold London I decided to take a taxi from Ahmedabad. That was my first visit to Lothal. Very similar experience thirty years ago when I first went to Dholavira.
1:19:17 Karl Marx was actually Karuppaswamy Mariappan, and his friend was E V Ramaswamy Naicker aka Periyar, both used to go to the same saloon in Erode.
Excavation is very less in India as compared to other ancient civilizations. I have asked a senior archaeologist in Delhi and he told me there are these few reasons why we lack evidences, 1st is there is lack of motivation among senior archaeologists, 2nd is previously there was a government who was not in favour of excavation of ancient civilization, 3rd there is lack of funds and it takes a lot of time to get anything approved by the department and getting permission is very difficult task
@@thinwhitedukerhapsody precisely....and Indian subcontinent has been able to support many times the population of entire middle eastern civilizations for atleast over 2 millenia in comparable area. As new generations descend they tend to build on top of their ancestors especially in a humid tropical climate where there is so much more dense vegetation. Remember it took them more than 800 years to find Angkor wat. Much easier to do archaelogy in uninhabitated, desserts.
Abhijit ji one thing I found while teaching about wars is that most of my students think that war means just meeting in a field and fighting till everyone dies. They don't even have concept of logistics, strategy, terrain, engineering, scouting etc. Is there an easy way to make them understand. If I start explaining about all these I can't complete the lesson in given time.
Once upon a time, in the kingdom of Serendia, there was a great castle nestled in the heart of a dense forest. The castle was ruled by King Aldric, a wise and valiant leader who had long safeguarded his kingdom from threats both within and beyond its borders. One day, rumors reached King Aldric's ears of an impending invasion by the neighboring kingdom of Eldoria, whose armies were said to be marching through the rugged mountains to the north. Determined to defend his realm, King Aldric summoned his council of advisors to devise a plan. First, the council discussed logistics. They knew that in order to sustain a prolonged defense, they would need ample supplies of food, water, and ammunition. They devised a plan to stockpile provisions within the castle walls and establish supply lines to ensure a steady flow of resources from the kingdom's hinterlands. Next, they turned their attention to strategy. Knowing that Eldoria's armies would likely attempt to breach the castle's defenses, they devised a strategy to fortify key chokepoints and bottleneck enemy advances. They also planned to deploy troops in strategic positions along the castle walls and towers, ready to repel any assault. As they considered the terrain surrounding the castle, they realized that the dense forest provided ample cover for enemy scouts and spies. To counter this threat, they dispatched their own scouts to patrol the forest's edge and gather intelligence on enemy movements. The scouts' reports would be crucial for anticipating enemy attacks and planning defensive maneuvers. Meanwhile, the kingdom's engineers were hard at work strengthening the castle's fortifications and devising clever traps and obstacles to hinder enemy progress. They constructed sturdy walls, reinforced gates, and dug trenches to slow enemy advances. They also developed innovative siege weapons and defensive mechanisms to repel enemy assaults. As the days passed and tensions mounted, the kingdom awaited the inevitable clash with Eldoria's forces. But thanks to their careful preparations and coordinated efforts, King Aldric and his advisors were confident in their ability to defend their realm against any threat. When the day of battle finally arrived, the kingdom of Serendia stood ready, its soldiers steadfast and its defenses formidable. And though the enemy's armies may have outnumbered them, they could not withstand the combined strength of Serendia's logistics, strategy, terrain knowledge, engineering prowess, and scouting intelligence. Victory belonged to King Aldric and his brave defenders, ensuring the safety and security of their kingdom for generations to come. Through this story, students can see how each element - logistics, strategy, terrain, engineering, and scouting - plays a crucial role in military operations and contributes to the success of a defense or campaign.
@kushal pleased start giving links in description whenever you split a podcast in 2 or ,1 is related to others (also if you mention any podcast or show, in your podcast you do).
AIM is wrong on Gobekli Tepe the site Tas Teppler is a massive site and only 5 to 4% is excavated and now they have found many housing evidences of usage and fire altars etc, this was a civilization for sure.
@@abhinavt789 makes sense because most of the discoveries happen by accident . Once they realized this maybe thats how yogic practices came to be . The whole 'battle of 10 kings' happened because of 'soma' rasa .
Y'all are delusional. yoga is a philosophy which led to meditation in later stages. Soma has nothing to do with spirituality it was just a concoction for strength ig not some spiritual juice to help you meet the gods.
I would have liked to know their opinion on how we burn the dead bodies rather than burying them. Could that be a reason why we dot have as many fossils or bones to look into?
The great Bath of mohanja daro is evident in most temple ponds/tanks (pl Google) in tamil nadu, south India . 'Jallikatu' the popular bull fighting sport in tamil nadu ( pl Google) is recorded on Indus valley seals held in the Delhi museum.
Arattas king named in sumerian text from 2700 bce is suhgirana or suhkeshdana lol. And Lapis lazuli is only mined in afghanistan. To reach aratta travellers must cross susa then anshan and some mountains. Thats clearly near western punjab Afghanistan. 😭
Abhijit: you said once that rigveda is much more complex when compared with bronze age it took second axial age to start studying it. Do you think that rigveda could've been a product of a highly prosperous harrapan civilisation, whose great minds recited such poetry and indians considered rigveda as such high book due to the difference in times it was written and the times after collapse
Sinhauli excavation proved that there was no Aryan invasion as those remains were from the era before 1700bc and there was an excavation done in the region of mathura and areas nearby in 1990s and they have found oc pottery and other stuff from 2400bc so there was already a civilization in the area of Yamuna, Ganga belt and Saraswati belt. The skeletons found in sinhauli were examined and those were not from central asia
@@Iyervvaland Dr Niraj rai confirm sinuali has no single percent of steppe ancestory They are much closer to even aasi dna than even of western Punjab indus region ( who had 2 percent admixture of aasi ) the harrapans Overall indus people have 2 to 48 percent admixture of assi dna
The word 'palle' means 'teeth' in tamil . All the 5 million inhabitants were possibly evacuated/ migrated east and south india in 1900bc to become the ASI.
I don't understand why kushal get triggered so easily . It is not a off topic question I had a conversation with some one so I asked it . As I haven't read the rigveda and kushal and AIM seems to know about it . I mean what's the point of Q&A when u can't ask question even if they were silly or stupid .
It's because he's done numerous podcast with talageri about the same issue. I assume you're referring to the dasa thing, It's been clarified a million times that family books of rigveda don't talk about any person/place /anything of any non indo Aryan origin. The dasa and Pani tribes have indo aryan names , so no point of them being some Dravidian/munda tribe who happens to show no trace of Dravidian /munda .
Can't understand why people give too much importance to the linguistics. Linguistic is not an exact science and relies more on intuition rather than practice.
lol nothing is an exact science when dealing with history, barring maybe carbon dating. just because proto-indo-european is inconvenient to the trads, doesn't mean it isn't valuable
Hey both of you, Pls write a good and comprehensive book with the theory on Indian genetics instead of being angry at Tony Joseph. I found a book by him and bought it, seemed so genuine for a person like me who is not an expert. So do write a good and interesting book, get it published, that will help the cause most.
No book is needed, I guess 7 months ago you are unaware, but now Niraj Rai has come up significant development with the R1a1 haplogroup. You can check his reserches and his podacasts. Cheers.
Is MELUHA can be MALVA?. Is Punjab region , where IVC exist,is still called MALVA. MALVA means Abode of Laxmi , the goddess of wealth. Swastik, which is use by Traders even today,has been found in IVC.
Cremation started around 1900bc. IVC people used to bury their dead. It changed somewhere around very late ivc/early vedic period and is associated with cementary H culture.
I am from Kerala. After the massive flood of 2018, huge earthen pots used to bury dead were discovered with terracotta idols. One of the figures is Ganesha and another of Maatrikas , naagaraajas . It’s believed to be thousands of years old and found in vicinity of Aranmula temple which as per legendary account installed by Arjuna . It is obvious that not all burned dead body.
Their is no evidence indus people ever call themselves meluha but Mesopotamians , Just like Indian call Chinese as chin while Chinese people called themselves "Zhongguo" No British people call themselves British but "Westseaxe" ( British were named by Latin people which mean tattooed barbarians to English people)
Abhijit , Dahae were near the caspian sea (northern iran or southern steppe ) why would rigveda mention them and ask to smite them? Considering bharata pura tribe was far away from them and there was a lot of buffer in between.
@Alexios I Komnenos it didnt , please type dahae tribe location , it was exclusively only till caspian sea and was north to iran , afghanistan had its own different set of tribes
@Alexios I Komnenosno way man, they never travelled from the caspian sea, this wasnt the migration period, its post migration. Dont give me speculations bro. They settled near the caspian sea and made a kingdom/empire/confederation, which existed all the way till roman times .Nvm forget about it.
@Alexios I Komnenos that might not be true because dahae came to the caspian much after the migration. The migration happened in 2000-1600 BCE while dahae came to 300 BCE. Huge difference
Abhijit when there is no Dravidian people where did the Malay Burmese origin come from? I guess it was a joke, or did you mean some tamils tribe s are austro Asiatic and related to native Javanese Australian? Pls answer this post if it's not a joke. OTOH some Tamil peoples have origins in the Sindhu Saraswathi region. Perhaps then proto Dravidian was not related to the baratha tribe but an isolate or a fork from other prakrits in Saraswathi region more to the south like dwaraka, drupata regions(Krishna draupadi who are worshiped by some Tamil clans even today thuvaragai is their origin as they claim) or perhaps proto Dravidian originated in south when Vedic tribes started settling south and mixed their languages(prakrits) with the austroasiatic tribes of South(murugan/karthikeya Valli myth)....and later got standardised by vedic agasthya and tolkappiyar(jaimini) what do you think?
you can on trails of saraswati by michel danino he has only provided factual details with interpretation of data so it is tough to read but probably best to start with and he has even provided with what to read further , and he is unbiased in that book
@@akhilkontham9308 No. Dyaus Pita was sky father in the Vedas. He was the father of Indra as per some sukta. He is husband of Prithvi. Later, he becomes one of the classical elements along with earth, fire, air, water. He fades later on. Deva is a different word. May have a common etymological origin.
@@hajimeisayama9842 Archeology by definition means human activity through the recovery and analysis of material , So if a material isn't found then that thing didn't existed in the earlier times. This assumption is very wierd and illogical. Anyways everyone is discussing with Theories and not the pure facts. I have my own opinion and right to believe in any theory. Kushal is a charvak and he only believes the things which he can see/feel or has been proven. But that doesn't mean that the things not yet discovered doesn't existed. We have to consider a place for the unfounded while we initiate a theory just like we consider a unknown value 'x' in mathematics.
Why would they be offended, they will only laugh at fools like you and the podcasters for just basically avoiding keezhadi excavations which dates Harappa and does not have anything to do with Vedic language and rituals. Butt hurt nomads still clinging to their ancestral occupation of loathing and bluffing 😂
Vedic aryans were fish eating Brahmins who migrated to bengal and west India after end of saraswati in around 1500 to 2000 bc that’s why u don’t find any archeological stuff for this period
It's laughable that two dudes are discussing a topic but none of them have any expertise on that subject. Being cynical is perfectly fine but always remember, a cynic has nothing to call his own.
Where are these guys when challenges are put out for proving AIT Correct by right wingers with huge monetary prize. Like I literally want to see a debate but no these guys will do their own thing by themselves and right wingers will do things among their groups like cmon have some friction, approach each other and challenge each other. Both sides are delusional and ignorant freakin clowns
They are always careful to use the word AIT which no serious scholar believes happened. The current theory is AMT which is quite drastically different from the theory of max muller and colonial times. Let them put a prize money for AMT someday. Disapproving something which itself is never claimed to be true anymore is an easy proposition.
@@varunsingla4718 well ok putting those prized challenge aside can't these guys get a guest or straight up tweet the "expert" have a debate like why not try but no one would do anything these guys have podcast make a good use of it
@@go_go1 Man the debate would be so fierce i can't even imagine. People on both sides have too much conviction and have spent their lives trying to find more evidences to support their theories. Also sadly many people from the right thinks it is essential to prove that no outsiders ever influenced anything and we only influenced the outer world and all inventions came out of here. Labelling them as outsiders would equate them to islamic invaders in their eyes. However I personally do not believe hinduism needs OIT to survive. We were always a rich culture and even if AMT is proven correct homeland of vedas will not be outside modern pakistan/afghanistan border so hinduism is inherent to India. I also would love to see a debate lets say between david reich and niraj rai.
@@varunsingla4718 we can imagine all we want but idk man no body does anything like it's just sad at this point. And what india gave to world is unmatched , materialistic influence and contributions is time period bounded but contribution of advaita vedanta in my opinion is just unmatched anyways I hope someone actually do something and not just keep talking to their own groups like damn
@@go_go1 Ofcourse man, we are the last surviving pagan religion. Bhagwad gita, upanishads are just so deep and beautiful. Our cultural and philosophical influence in the world is immense I agree wholeheartedly.
By your logic the native Americans are not natives as they also came from Africa . By natives we mean the first people who settled a civlization and culture thete . We are the original settlers who were defeated and enslaved by Aryans
@@photophoto7354 the hunter gatherers are not the civlization builders . The Mayans and rhe Aztecs captured and sacrificed hunter gatherers yet the Mayans and Aztecs were also called natives
@@photophoto7354 and unlike Brahmins we don't treat Adivasi like second class citizens . The Dalits always stands for adivasi rights baba saheb provide reservation not only to Dalits but also tribals
Well so technically Bengal belong to muslims as Mughals are the one who devloped it and civilized it . And on the other hand hindus think Bengal is bar Barbaric.
Bengal was then called Gaud. Also the proto Bengali evolved in Pala Empire. Only the east areas of present day of Bengal i.e. Dhaka that were developed by Mughals.
Off topic! But love that Shivaji Maharaj is the first person we see in your intro ❤️
Agreed! Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj is one of the best symbols of Hundus.
Jai Shivaji
@@sameerturki4317
Truly, he was the king of all people.
Agree
Jai shivaji
As an archaeologist I find it interesting that Indians have become so interested in this field which in the academic world is a sleepy borough! We work in the field and research for years, publish and discuss at conferences... but are shy about speaking in public. On Harappans, my theory is that the two groups (Harappan & Vedic) co-existed within a larger group. After the collapse (caused by environment & western wars) these two groups migrated eastward into the heartland. Lots more to say but I'll stop and enjoy your take.
What the hell is Harappan? That is not even a legitimate word. The more I think the more I find the narrative attributed with Indian archeological findings nonsensical mumbo jumbo.
@@ambience9968 Bhai, Harappa was the first site which was excavated and a new ancient civilisation came to light. By International archaeological convention a civilisation takes its name from the first site and
that is why it is referred to as Harappa Civilisation. I know it first became popular as Indus Valley Civilisation and as we discovered Saraswati river some started to call it Indus/Saraswati Civilisation.
Lajwantijee some fifty years ago I came to India looking for Lothal and found no one had a clue. I asked about its whereabouts to college students, learned people but none had heard about it. Finally I went to information office on Ashram Road in Ahmedabad. The front line had no clue either then. But they called out a senior person from inside. He knew. He directed me to take a train to Bhukhri station and then to catch a bullock cart if lucky otherwise walk 4.5 miles to the archaeological site. He said take water and food as there is nothing around. It was very hot and had just come from cold London I decided to take a taxi from Ahmedabad. That was my first visit to Lothal. Very similar experience thirty years ago when I first went to Dholavira.
1:19:17 Karl Marx was actually Karuppaswamy Mariappan, and his friend was E V Ramaswamy Naicker aka Periyar, both used to go to the same saloon in Erode.
😂
I can sit and listen to you for hours! You make sound so seamless, and one can never know HOW much of research must have gone into this.
Really enjoy coming back again and again
Excavation is very less in India as compared to other ancient civilizations. I have asked a senior archaeologist in Delhi and he told me there are these few reasons why we lack evidences, 1st is there is lack of motivation among senior archaeologists, 2nd is previously there was a government who was not in favour of excavation of ancient civilization, 3rd there is lack of funds and it takes a lot of time to get anything approved by the department and getting permission is very difficult task
Indian weather is hot and moist causing much faster degradation
How to spot a chaddi: see if he throws feces at congress on every random point.
4th his population density you can't dig where a lot of people live
@@thinwhitedukerhapsody precisely....and Indian subcontinent has been able to support many times the population of entire middle eastern civilizations for atleast over 2 millenia in comparable area. As new generations descend they tend to build on top of their ancestors especially in a humid tropical climate where there is so much more dense vegetation. Remember it took them more than 800 years to find Angkor wat. Much easier to do archaelogy in uninhabitated, desserts.
If possible, do one with Abhijit on America’s revolutionary war with the brits.
I am watching this now ... i have watched a lot related to egypt but the information i got is marvelous...
Abhijit ji one thing I found while teaching about wars is that most of my students think that war means just meeting in a field and fighting till everyone dies. They don't even have concept of logistics, strategy, terrain, engineering, scouting etc. Is there an easy way to make them understand. If I start explaining about all these I can't complete the lesson in given time.
Once upon a time, in the kingdom of Serendia, there was a great castle nestled in the heart of a dense forest. The castle was ruled by King Aldric, a wise and valiant leader who had long safeguarded his kingdom from threats both within and beyond its borders.
One day, rumors reached King Aldric's ears of an impending invasion by the neighboring kingdom of Eldoria, whose armies were said to be marching through the rugged mountains to the north. Determined to defend his realm, King Aldric summoned his council of advisors to devise a plan.
First, the council discussed logistics. They knew that in order to sustain a prolonged defense, they would need ample supplies of food, water, and ammunition. They devised a plan to stockpile provisions within the castle walls and establish supply lines to ensure a steady flow of resources from the kingdom's hinterlands.
Next, they turned their attention to strategy. Knowing that Eldoria's armies would likely attempt to breach the castle's defenses, they devised a strategy to fortify key chokepoints and bottleneck enemy advances. They also planned to deploy troops in strategic positions along the castle walls and towers, ready to repel any assault.
As they considered the terrain surrounding the castle, they realized that the dense forest provided ample cover for enemy scouts and spies. To counter this threat, they dispatched their own scouts to patrol the forest's edge and gather intelligence on enemy movements. The scouts' reports would be crucial for anticipating enemy attacks and planning defensive maneuvers.
Meanwhile, the kingdom's engineers were hard at work strengthening the castle's fortifications and devising clever traps and obstacles to hinder enemy progress. They constructed sturdy walls, reinforced gates, and dug trenches to slow enemy advances. They also developed innovative siege weapons and defensive mechanisms to repel enemy assaults.
As the days passed and tensions mounted, the kingdom awaited the inevitable clash with Eldoria's forces. But thanks to their careful preparations and coordinated efforts, King Aldric and his advisors were confident in their ability to defend their realm against any threat.
When the day of battle finally arrived, the kingdom of Serendia stood ready, its soldiers steadfast and its defenses formidable. And though the enemy's armies may have outnumbered them, they could not withstand the combined strength of Serendia's logistics, strategy, terrain knowledge, engineering prowess, and scouting intelligence. Victory belonged to King Aldric and his brave defenders, ensuring the safety and security of their kingdom for generations to come.
Through this story, students can see how each element - logistics, strategy, terrain, engineering, and scouting - plays a crucial role in military operations and contributes to the success of a defense or campaign.
AIM and Kushal are gems
@kushal pleased start giving links in description whenever you split a podcast in 2 or ,1 is related to others (also if you mention any podcast or show, in your podcast you do).
Avijit Ayer ji your conception & research are non biased & scientific. Thanks 👍
I don't have any questions just my thanks and regards to Khushal sir and Abhijit Sir for clearing the doubts through these Q&A sessions.
AIM is wrong on Gobekli Tepe the site Tas Teppler is a massive site and only 5 to 4% is excavated and now they have found many housing evidences of usage and fire altars etc, this was a civilization for sure.
Just tell me when and how the science of yoga and meditation came into place in India. What really led Indians to discover experiential spirituality?
@@abhinavt789 South Americans were also consuming psychedelic drinks like ayahuasca.
@@abhinavt789 makes sense because most of the discoveries happen by accident . Once they realized this maybe thats how yogic practices came to be . The whole 'battle of 10 kings' happened because of 'soma' rasa .
@@abhinavt789 Ho sakta hai
All spirituality is experiential.
Y'all are delusional. yoga is a philosophy which led to meditation in later stages. Soma has nothing to do with spirituality it was just a concoction for strength ig not some spiritual juice to help you meet the gods.
Tamil Nad - The Land of Vedas, Nagaswami
Typing for reference
I loved the analysis.... Thank you Kushal Bhai! 👌🙏
I would have liked to know their opinion on how we burn the dead bodies rather than burying them. Could that be a reason why we dot have as many fossils or bones to look into?
The great Bath of mohanja daro is evident in most temple ponds/tanks (pl Google) in tamil nadu, south India .
'Jallikatu' the popular bull fighting sport in tamil nadu ( pl Google) is recorded on Indus valley seals held in the Delhi museum.
Arattas king named in sumerian text from 2700 bce is suhgirana or suhkeshdana lol. And Lapis lazuli is only mined in afghanistan. To reach aratta travellers must cross susa then anshan and some mountains. Thats clearly near western punjab Afghanistan. 😭
Keeladi civilization found in Tamil Nadu have similar signs with Harappan civilization.
Obviously these people will avoid talking about it as it has nothing to do with Vedic language or rituals
I would like to suggest that first 1-2 min should be for us audience. Bc jitna gaali dena he de sakte hai Kushal or AIM bhaiyyaa ko. He he ✌️✌️
Abhijit: you said once that rigveda is much more complex when compared with bronze age it took second axial age to start studying it. Do you think that rigveda could've been a product of a highly prosperous harrapan civilisation, whose great minds recited such poetry and indians considered rigveda as such high book due to the difference in times it was written and the times after collapse
@Alexios I Komnenos what is IVC
Sinhauli excavation proved that there was no Aryan invasion as those remains were from the era before 1700bc and there was an excavation done in the region of mathura and areas nearby in 1990s and they have found oc pottery and other stuff from 2400bc so there was already a civilization in the area of Yamuna, Ganga belt and Saraswati belt. The skeletons found in sinhauli were examined and those were not from central asia
Quite the opposite - it’s the first grave goods burial - something not seen in IVC and very heavily seen on the steppes
@Lion King how many ivc skeletons have been researched?
@@Iyervvaland Dr Niraj rai confirm sinuali has no single percent of steppe ancestory
They are much closer to even aasi dna than even of western Punjab indus region ( who had 2 percent admixture of aasi ) the harrapans
Overall indus people have 2 to 48 percent admixture of assi dna
I wish my history teacher was AIM.
Aratta is also mentioned to be in gandhara in puranas and close to gandhari and sparsu in baudhyana shraut sutra.
Dholabira : water management : : lothal : port city
The word 'palle' means 'teeth' in tamil . All the 5 million inhabitants were possibly evacuated/ migrated east and south india in 1900bc to become the ASI.
I don't understand why kushal get triggered so easily .
It is not a off topic question I had a conversation with some one so I asked it .
As I haven't read the rigveda and kushal and AIM seems to know about it .
I mean what's the point of Q&A when u can't ask question even if they were silly or stupid .
Can you give the timestamp of your question?
He's been asked this numerous times, thus the frustration.
It's because he's done numerous podcast with talageri about the same issue.
I assume you're referring to the dasa thing,
It's been clarified a million times that family books of rigveda don't talk about any person/place /anything of any non indo Aryan origin. The dasa and Pani tribes have indo aryan names , so no point of them being some Dravidian/munda tribe who happens to show no trace of Dravidian /munda .
Can't understand why people give too much importance to the linguistics.
Linguistic is not an exact science and relies more on intuition rather than practice.
lol nothing is an exact science when dealing with history, barring maybe carbon dating. just because proto-indo-european is inconvenient to the trads, doesn't mean it isn't valuable
Hey both of you, Pls write a good and comprehensive book with the theory on Indian genetics instead of being angry at Tony Joseph. I found a book by him and bought it, seemed so genuine for a person like me who is not an expert. So do write a good and interesting book, get it published, that will help the cause most.
No book is needed, I guess 7 months ago you are unaware, but now Niraj Rai has come up significant development with the R1a1 haplogroup. You can check his reserches and his podacasts. Cheers.
All the best
Is MELUHA can be MALVA?. Is Punjab region , where IVC exist,is still called MALVA. MALVA means Abode of Laxmi , the goddess of wealth. Swastik, which is use by Traders even today,has been found in IVC.
Bro, malwa can also be malwa plateau.
It is also mentioned that meluhans came from higher lands. Plateau could be the higher lands they came from
Traders from IVC came from Lothal and Dholavira which are in Today’s Gujarat
@@jayantpatel250 Malva is big geographical area which may include Gujrat. Gujarat is modern political entity
@@RajeshKumar-fy9nl May be you are right as Patidars/Patels claim they arrived into today’s Gujarat from Punjab some 1000/800 years ago.
Thanks!
Lothal has harbour not Dholavira
So when we moved to the Ganges from Indus, how the hell did we not bring any advancement with us? Like Drainage and stuff
Because it is deurbanized when we started living in small villages there is no need for well planned drainage systems
ROUTING SWITCHING
Also about grave don't we just burn dead bodies. So may be that's why we didn't get any mass graves or m I wrong.
Cremation started around 1900bc. IVC people used to bury their dead. It changed somewhere around very late ivc/early vedic period and is associated with cementary H culture.
I am from Kerala. After the massive flood of 2018, huge earthen pots used to bury dead were discovered with terracotta idols. One of the figures is Ganesha and another of Maatrikas , naagaraajas . It’s believed to be thousands of years old and found in vicinity of Aranmula temple which as per legendary account installed by Arjuna . It is obvious that not all burned dead body.
Why did both House Mice and House Crow originate in india?
Wonderful session. Did anyone get the link to the paper? Abhijit was referring to? Not sure if I am saying his name right - Maddok?
Tin from Arata Can come from Arabian sea from west Coast of India.
The word meluhha sounds like 'mel loka'. In tamil meaning 'above world' or "top world'.
Loka itself is Sankrit word 😂 , Latin = locare( settlement ,to settle ) , English= locate/ location ( abode or place)
Their is no evidence indus people ever call themselves meluha but Mesopotamians ,
Just like Indian call Chinese as chin while Chinese people called themselves "Zhongguo"
No British people call themselves British but "Westseaxe" ( British were named by Latin people which mean tattooed barbarians to English people)
Lol Sanskrit would have borrowed it from Tamil as it is a much younger language. Keep crying now
How do you define Attrampakkam excavation??
Aratta can refer to mountain in Iran.
It's not Graham wood
It's Graham Hancock.
In our scripture their is mentioned of सुमेरू पर्बत
Abey Meru parvat hai woh
@@aditya-rt4zb bhai link dekh le
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumeru_Parbat
about varanasi temples of 2300bc there was a news article in feb 2020 or feb 2021?
The IRULA tribes of the Nilgiri hills in tamil nadu are believed to be the closest (dna) descendants of the Indus valley inhabitants
They have oldest aasi dna not Indus dna , which make them related to indian hunter gather culture ( possible mesolithic hunters gathers )
Plz add subtitles to the video
PUNDRAVARDHANA, GOUR, CHANDRAKETUGARH, TAMRALIPTA are pree mughal urban areas of Bengal
Abhijit , Dahae were near the caspian sea (northern iran or southern steppe ) why would rigveda mention them and ask to smite them? Considering bharata pura tribe was far away from them and there was a lot of buffer in between.
@Alexios I Komnenos it didnt , please type dahae tribe location , it was exclusively only till caspian sea and was north to iran , afghanistan had its own different set of tribes
@Alexios I Komnenos Dasa can be dahae but its still not confirmed as per many studies.
@Alexios I Komnenosno way man, they never travelled from the caspian sea, this wasnt the migration period, its post migration. Dont give me speculations bro. They settled near the caspian sea and made a kingdom/empire/confederation, which existed all the way till roman times .Nvm forget about it.
@Alexios I Komnenos that might not be true because dahae came to the caspian much after the migration. The migration happened in 2000-1600 BCE while dahae came to 300 BCE. Huge difference
@Alexios I Komnenos yeah could be ,i didnt say it was ivc folks . Prolly some other tribe.
You can't spell Bharata without Arata😜
Abhijit when there is no Dravidian people where did the Malay Burmese origin come from? I guess it was a joke, or did you mean some tamils tribe s are austro Asiatic and related to native Javanese Australian? Pls answer this post if it's not a joke.
OTOH some Tamil peoples have origins in the Sindhu Saraswathi region. Perhaps then proto Dravidian was not related to the baratha tribe but an isolate or a fork from other prakrits in Saraswathi region more to the south like dwaraka, drupata regions(Krishna draupadi who are worshiped by some Tamil clans even today thuvaragai is their origin as they claim) or perhaps proto Dravidian originated in south when Vedic tribes started settling south and mixed their languages(prakrits) with the austroasiatic tribes of South(murugan/karthikeya Valli myth)....and later got standardised by vedic agasthya and tolkappiyar(jaimini) what do you think?
39:20 Lothal hai chicha
16:54 Kumari Kandam
This is a very incomplete and sometimes inaccurate discussion leaving our a lot of evidence
Do you think that decoloniality will lead to revival of caste pride, blasphemy laws etc.?
@Alexios I Komnenos blasphemy laws are already present in India, whereas caste pride will get hammered in this social media age
👍
Was Saraswati a real river?
Yes but it was not in India most probably in Iran or Afghanistan
you can on trails of saraswati by michel danino he has only provided factual details with interpretation of data so it is tough to read but probably best to start with and he has even provided with what to read further , and he is unbiased in that book
Gaggar Hakra river was Saraswati river.
@@neelakranti5411 no saraswati river belt is found in haryana side not in Afghanistan, stop spreading false information 🙄 😒.
Yes it was
If mesoamerican were in stone age how they had gold??
#Akhant_kenya
Dieus pitr means Deva pita which proto indo European in Lithuania Agni became ugnis etc thoughts on this pagan religion of europe
Dyaus Pitr means sky father.
@@PranavGogwekar the meaning in hindi Deva pita right
@@akhilkontham9308 No. Dyaus Pita was sky father in the Vedas. He was the father of Indra as per some sukta. He is husband of Prithvi. Later, he becomes one of the classical elements along with earth, fire, air, water. He fades later on. Deva is a different word. May have a common etymological origin.
The intro is way too classy for this show
Could there have been mass cremation done rather than dumping of bodies in mass graves in IVC collapse.
Kamet
Kushal does not have open mind.
I disagree majorly with both of them on their belief on archeology
What is your alternative theory?
@@patmclaughlin107 I go with the Abhijit Chavda Theory
He too used the same pattern to explain the historical occurances
@@_nk_______ bro please...just to satisfy you ego....don't believe any shit he throws at you..
@@hajimeisayama9842 Archeology by definition means human activity through the recovery and analysis of material ,
So if a material isn't found then that thing didn't existed in the earlier times.
This assumption is very wierd and illogical. Anyways everyone is discussing with Theories and not the pure facts.
I have my own opinion and right to believe in any theory. Kushal is a charvak and he only believes the things which he can see/feel or has been proven.
But that doesn't mean that the things not yet discovered doesn't existed. We have to consider a place for the unfounded while we initiate a theory just like we consider a unknown value 'x' in mathematics.
get educated first man
Misr is Arabic word
Well well now DMK slaves will get highly offende 😊
Nice username lolz
@@sri_2911 iam a Amedkarite not a Dravidian.
@@neelakranti5411 , bt ur mentality is still in sync with those dmk slaves
@@neelakranti5411 even worse then. U guys insult ambedkar by existing
Why would they be offended, they will only laugh at fools like you and the podcasters for just basically avoiding keezhadi excavations which dates Harappa and does not have anything to do with Vedic language and rituals. Butt hurt nomads still clinging to their ancestral occupation of loathing and bluffing 😂
Why do you guys refer to Tamils and “them”? Are they not Indians? Or is there truly an Aryan / Dravidian divide?
Abhijit is Tamilian
He's talking about Dravidian nationalists
Vedic aryans were fish eating Brahmins who migrated to bengal and west India after end of saraswati in around 1500 to 2000 bc that’s why u don’t find any archeological stuff for this period
Khemm
It's laughable that two dudes are discussing a topic but none of them have any expertise on that subject. Being cynical is perfectly fine but always remember, a cynic has nothing to call his own.
Sources are established ones. Nothing they say out of their ass-es do they?
ABHIJIT IS TALKING CRAP
Where are these guys when challenges are put out for proving AIT Correct by right wingers with huge monetary prize. Like I literally want to see a debate but no these guys will do their own thing by themselves and right wingers will do things among their groups like cmon have some friction, approach each other and challenge each other. Both sides are delusional and ignorant freakin clowns
They are always careful to use the word AIT which no serious scholar believes happened. The current theory is AMT which is quite drastically different from the theory of max muller and colonial times. Let them put a prize money for AMT someday. Disapproving something which itself is never claimed to be true anymore is an easy proposition.
@@varunsingla4718 well ok putting those prized challenge aside can't these guys get a guest or straight up tweet the "expert" have a debate like why not try but no one would do anything these guys have podcast make a good use of it
@@go_go1 Man the debate would be so fierce i can't even imagine. People on both sides have too much conviction and have spent their lives trying to find more evidences to support their theories. Also sadly many people from the right thinks it is essential to prove that no outsiders ever influenced anything and we only influenced the outer world and all inventions came out of here. Labelling them as outsiders would equate them to islamic invaders in their eyes. However I personally do not believe hinduism needs OIT to survive. We were always a rich culture and even if AMT is proven correct homeland of vedas will not be outside modern pakistan/afghanistan border so hinduism is inherent to India.
I also would love to see a debate lets say between david reich and niraj rai.
@@varunsingla4718 we can imagine all we want but idk man no body does anything like it's just sad at this point. And what india gave to world is unmatched , materialistic influence and contributions is time period bounded but contribution of advaita vedanta in my opinion is just unmatched anyways I hope someone actually do something and not just keep talking to their own groups like damn
@@go_go1 Ofcourse man, we are the last surviving pagan religion. Bhagwad gita, upanishads are just so deep and beautiful. Our cultural and philosophical influence in the world is immense I agree wholeheartedly.
By your logic the native Americans are not natives as they also came from Africa .
By natives we mean the first people who settled a civlization and culture thete .
We are the original settlers who were defeated and enslaved by Aryans
The by this logic Dravidian aka Iranian farmers also colonisers bcz u guys enslave the Indian hunter gathers.
@@photophoto7354 the hunter gatherers are not the civlization builders .
The Mayans and rhe Aztecs captured and sacrificed hunter gatherers yet the Mayans and Aztecs were also called natives
@@photophoto7354 and unlike Brahmins we don't treat Adivasi like second class citizens .
The Dalits always stands for adivasi rights baba saheb provide reservation not only to Dalits but also tribals
No body can call themselves original native because every indian has all 3 dna
Lol
🤣Tum taklo ko dekhne ki adat hogayi hai otherwise ye kuch highly intellectual ho gaya
Well so technically Bengal belong to muslims as Mughals are the one who devloped it and civilized it .
And on the other hand hindus think Bengal is bar Barbaric.
East bengal was Buddhist
@@sandeep8724 that's why hindus called them barbaric .
They always hated Buddhist .
@@neelakranti5411 there was also animistic people in Bengal which you still find,they are called barbarian not Buddhist
😂🤣
Bengal was then called Gaud. Also the proto Bengali evolved in Pala Empire. Only the east areas of present day of Bengal i.e. Dhaka that were developed by Mughals.