The whole thieves guild questline in Skyrim is full of trinities. Gallus (king), Mercer (rebel) and Karliah (witness); then Mercer and Karliah blurring the roles of warrior and thief while you literally observe in that crypt; the final part in which Mercer is the king, trying to keep his wealth, life and the key, the nightingales are the rebels, trying to take him down and the Falmer statue (which lost its eyes) witness the whole thing
Do a video on the constellations themselves. I'm especially curious about how they physically manifested as the Celestials, and what kind of powers each Celestial might have had.
Actually MK's theory that Talos is effectively dead during the events of Skyrim doesn't really hold a lot of weight, when considering the fact that you can still receive a blessing of Talos from any number his shrines throughout Skyrim. If Talos was truly dead then he wouldn't be able to bestow his blessing on the character or anybody else for that matter.
Another great example of an enantiomorph would be the three good Deadra: Boethiah, Azura, and Mephala. Boethiah would be the warrior, Azura the mage, and Mephala the thief. Building off of Pilaf's explanation that there are trinities within trinities, this could pose interesting ideas in regards to the Tribunal considering that the Tribunal are the incarnations of the three good deadra.
I for one would love a cast on how you all came to be so knowledgeable. Though for a cast dealing with actual lore, I'd love for you guys to have one about the relation between Nirn and Oblivion. Especially dealing with the barriers keeping them apart and things like liminal bridges. I'd really like some explaining of the Battlespire and the Weir Gate allowing access to it, as there seems to be very little information on the technicalities of the Battlespire from what I've seen.
they explained before about the guide to being a lore buff, originally by Lady Nerevar, it's a really useful tool to become more knowledgeable in TES lore and also to delve into this deep lore questions. i'll leave the link in case after 3 years you still have this desire: forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/
I believe Dovahkiin - Paarthurnax - Alduin are a unit. Rebel - Witness - King. Also, the crazy Bosmer enantiomorph is probably the coolest thing Putnam has ever said. My view of the Civil War Enantiomorph is that it’s a secondary Talos that replaces the old Talos physically, time will tell if this unit gloms onto previous Talos worship. Also, Talos is at least still alive on some level because he does appear, physically, in C0DA, in better condition than Akatosh even. Unless he is gone and the "Talos" we see is the one from the Civil War? OOOOH!
maybe the reason why the King and the Rebel was so hard to tell apart is because they're both 1? they're 1 and 1, you're not suppose to tell the same thing apart.
Thanks for this guys, I've been looking forward to the next instalment for ages. Glad this is likely to become more regular! One thing that you left out was how/why enantiomorphs need to involve three entities, at lest according to the usual definition of the word, involving two objects that mirror one another. This being the case, I don't get why TES enantiomorphs have to have three entities involved. Particularly as Sermon 29 lists 2 as the number of the Enantiomorph. Could you clarify that, however briefly? I did have other questions on this earlier, will listen to it again and get back to you. Keep up the good work, guys! Also, what sort of philosophy were you looking at going over in relation to TES?
i wad just thinking here... could we consider the Empire the king, the Thalmor the Rebel, and Tamriel the observer? The observer part was the trickiest one for me, and i'm pretty sure i might be wrong, i'm just starting to dwelve into this deepest parts of lore, and holy shit, thank you for this podcast. It really got me going into a new depth of lore i never considered with the big discussions on themes and the metaphysics and everything that makes these my favourite game series. If not fantasy world.
One thing that I'd be curious about would be which aspect(s) of the lore you guys find most difficult to deal with? For example, I find reconciling retcons within the lore difficult - I love the idea that dragonbreaks and "once, therefore always" resolve this sort of thing, but I find it difficult to look beyond their more "mechanical" effect on the games' timeline. What frustrates you all about the Lore (if anything. If nothing, why nothing)? And for a less personal topic, I've been musing on the nature of language in TES on the forums (forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1507023-truth-is-dominance-is-speech-is-time-is-limitation/) - do you think there is an intrinsic relation between Truth and language in TES?
The First Fight of the Aldudagga Alduin = Warrior/King Greedy Man/Lorkhan = Thief/Rebel Leaper Demon King/Mehrunes Dagon = Mage/Observer The Greedy Man tries to end the kalpic cycle by hiding pieces of the world from Alduin to eventually overfeed him and kill him. Alduin discovers his treachery and forces him to retreat. The Leaper Demon King threw in his lot with the Greedy Man, but lost. He ended up maimed when Alduin cursed him to become Mehrunes Dagon. You could even say he's blinded by his need to destroy, since destruction is the only way he can break the curse.
36 minutes in. Do you guys mention the fact of the Brass tower, being Numidium? Heart of Lorkhan powering the tower. Ending in the destruction of reality, I.E. Dwemer race
It's more that acting like we have free will or acting like we don't are not behaviourally different - we act the way we act, regardless of the "reality" of the matter.
The problem I have with this discussion is this.... I presume the unusual word you mention is enantiomorph If I am understanding your pronunciation correctly then this... An enantiomorph refers to a duality - not to a trinity !!! Which kind of puts a cloud over the otherwise fascinating discussion about trinities in the Elder Scrolls lore and game world But perhaps I misheard the word ?
The enantiomorph in Elder Scrolls is a form a dualism. It's mainly about the struggle between the rebel/thief and the king/warrior. The observer/mage is a third party who many believe shapes the outcome. Either the rebel or the king has to win. The observer simply picks a side. That said, my theory is that an enantiomorph is not a trinity at all. Rather, it's a duality consisting of dualities. In an enantiomorphic event, it's often said that the observer/mage chooses the winner. I don't think that's true. He definitely chooses a side, but there are plenty of enantiomorphs where the observer supports the losing side, which doesn't make sense because the observer is supposed to shape the outcome in favor of his chosen side. My belief is that there is a fourth part, the Prisoner, who actually determines the outcome through his actions. This makes it a true enantiomorph, a duality. It Judy happens to consist of two pairs the rebel and king and the prisoner and observer. It just fits better if the prisoner is a separate entity from the thief.
Are you guys ready for Triangles Within Triangles? Enantiomorph time.
The whole thieves guild questline in Skyrim is full of trinities. Gallus (king), Mercer (rebel) and Karliah (witness); then Mercer and Karliah blurring the roles of warrior and thief while you literally observe in that crypt; the final part in which Mercer is the king, trying to keep his wealth, life and the key, the nightingales are the rebels, trying to take him down and the Falmer statue (which lost its eyes) witness the whole thing
Valenwood might have the trinity:
The Green Lady - Warrior
Silvenar - Mage
Wilderqueen/king - Thief, simply because the position is taken.
Do a video on the constellations themselves. I'm especially curious about how they physically manifested as the Celestials, and what kind of powers each Celestial might have had.
Actually MK's theory that Talos is effectively dead during the events of Skyrim doesn't really hold a lot of weight, when considering the fact that you can still receive a blessing of Talos from any number his shrines throughout Skyrim.
If Talos was truly dead then he wouldn't be able to bestow his blessing on the character or anybody else for that matter.
Another great example of an enantiomorph would be the three good Deadra: Boethiah, Azura, and Mephala. Boethiah would be the warrior, Azura the mage, and Mephala the thief. Building off of Pilaf's explanation that there are trinities within trinities, this could pose interesting ideas in regards to the Tribunal considering that the Tribunal are the incarnations of the three good deadra.
5:56 Teabar Saptim
I for one would love a cast on how you all came to be so knowledgeable. Though for a cast dealing with actual lore, I'd love for you guys to have one about the relation between Nirn and Oblivion. Especially dealing with the barriers keeping them apart and things like liminal bridges. I'd really like some explaining of the Battlespire and the Weir Gate allowing access to it, as there seems to be very little information on the technicalities of the Battlespire from what I've seen.
they explained before about the guide to being a lore buff, originally by Lady Nerevar, it's a really useful tool to become more knowledgeable in TES lore and also to delve into this deep lore questions. i'll leave the link in case after 3 years you still have this desire: forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/
I know it's years late, but Torygg the King, Ulfric the Rebel, and Sybil the Observer.
I believe Dovahkiin - Paarthurnax - Alduin are a unit. Rebel - Witness - King.
Also, the crazy Bosmer enantiomorph is probably the coolest thing Putnam has ever said.
My view of the Civil War Enantiomorph is that it’s a secondary Talos that replaces the old Talos physically, time will tell if this unit gloms onto previous Talos worship.
Also, Talos is at least still alive on some level because he does appear, physically, in C0DA, in better condition than Akatosh even. Unless he is gone and the "Talos" we see is the one from the Civil War? OOOOH!
maybe the reason why the King and the Rebel was so hard to tell apart is because they're both 1? they're 1 and 1, you're not suppose to tell the same thing apart.
Glad to see you guys doing this. It fills me with happiness ;)
Thanks for this guys, I've been looking forward to the next instalment for ages. Glad this is likely to become more regular!
One thing that you left out was how/why enantiomorphs need to involve three entities, at lest according to the usual definition of the word, involving two objects that mirror one another. This being the case, I don't get why TES enantiomorphs have to have three entities involved. Particularly as Sermon 29 lists 2 as the number of the Enantiomorph. Could you clarify that, however briefly?
I did have other questions on this earlier, will listen to it again and get back to you. Keep up the good work, guys!
Also, what sort of philosophy were you looking at going over in relation to TES?
i wad just thinking here... could we consider the Empire the king, the Thalmor the Rebel, and Tamriel the observer?
The observer part was the trickiest one for me, and i'm pretty sure i might be wrong, i'm just starting to dwelve into this deepest parts of lore, and holy shit, thank you for this podcast. It really got me going into a new depth of lore i never considered with the big discussions on themes and the metaphysics and everything that makes these my favourite game series. If not fantasy world.
One thing that I'd be curious about would be which aspect(s) of the lore you guys find most difficult to deal with? For example, I find reconciling retcons within the lore difficult - I love the idea that dragonbreaks and "once, therefore always" resolve this sort of thing, but I find it difficult to look beyond their more "mechanical" effect on the games' timeline. What frustrates you all about the Lore (if anything. If nothing, why nothing)?
And for a less personal topic, I've been musing on the nature of language in TES on the forums (forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1507023-truth-is-dominance-is-speech-is-time-is-limitation/) - do you think there is an intrinsic relation between Truth and language in TES?
The First Fight of the Aldudagga
Alduin = Warrior/King
Greedy Man/Lorkhan = Thief/Rebel
Leaper Demon King/Mehrunes Dagon = Mage/Observer
The Greedy Man tries to end the kalpic cycle by hiding pieces of the world from Alduin to eventually overfeed him and kill him. Alduin discovers his treachery and forces him to retreat. The Leaper Demon King threw in his lot with the Greedy Man, but lost. He ended up maimed when Alduin cursed him to become Mehrunes Dagon. You could even say he's blinded by his need to destroy, since destruction is the only way he can break the curse.
Last dragonborn as rebel, Alduin as king, and parth as observer
Does that one work
What would take participate in these lore discussions?
I finishing ending college this year and I'm doing it in philosophy.
Sinclair-Sheridan-Delenn (The One Who Was, The One Who Is, The One Who Will Be) The Three as The One
what the fuck is up with the image that pops up right after 31:13? What the fuck? Random and disturbing
a triangle with each tip being its own triangle.....the triforce?
King: Hero of Kvatch
Rebel: Mannimarco
Observer: Raminus Polus
36 minutes in. Do you guys mention the fact of the Brass tower, being Numidium? Heart of Lorkhan powering the tower. Ending in the destruction of reality, I.E. Dwemer race
Ugh.... I saw a mudcrab today
Do we have free will?
Of course we have no choice but to
It's more that acting like we have free will or acting like we don't are not behaviourally different - we act the way we act, regardless of the "reality" of the matter.
The problem I have with this discussion is this....
I presume the unusual word you mention is enantiomorph
If I am understanding your pronunciation correctly then this...
An enantiomorph refers to a duality - not to a trinity !!!
Which kind of puts a cloud over the otherwise fascinating discussion about trinities in the Elder Scrolls lore and game world
But perhaps I misheard the word ?
The enantiomorph in Elder Scrolls is a form a dualism. It's mainly about the struggle between the rebel/thief and the king/warrior. The observer/mage is a third party who many believe shapes the outcome. Either the rebel or the king has to win. The observer simply picks a side. That said, my theory is that an enantiomorph is not a trinity at all. Rather, it's a duality consisting of dualities. In an enantiomorphic event, it's often said that the observer/mage chooses the winner. I don't think that's true. He definitely chooses a side, but there are plenty of enantiomorphs where the observer supports the losing side, which doesn't make sense because the observer is supposed to shape the outcome in favor of his chosen side. My belief is that there is a fourth part, the Prisoner, who actually determines the outcome through his actions. This makes it a true enantiomorph, a duality. It Judy happens to consist of two pairs the rebel and king and the prisoner and observer. It just fits better if the prisoner is a separate entity from the thief.