Only valid thing Squad players might have is the controls and inventory system, particularly my dad, he hates anything less than very streamlined and simple inventory and UI. I don't mind, but migrating from Squad, it might tick some players off that you have to got to an arsenal, manage your loadout piece by piece to be anything but basic rifleman, and remember after to separately select "Save Loadout" or you go back to generic rifleman after you respawn. Plus third person being enable by default in PVP really pisses me off, same issue I had with Dayz. Magically seeing around corners is gay. Other than, lack of map diversity is the only other flaw (I'm only comparing unmodded versions of each game). I think Arma is superior everywhere else, particularly impressive that it simultaneously has better graphics, larger scale, AND better performance.
Bullets actually go where you aim in reforger which is enough to make it kill squad outright. When you start adding all the additional features and mods on it isn't even close, squad looks like battlefield 1942, too bad it isn't nearly as fun anymore 😢 5500 hours in Squad and less than 50 in reforger atm just to throw it out there, I'm assuming I'm going to like reforger even more once I learn it inside and out
This does seem a bit different with the fact that you use up resources to respawn, however I do think you're under-appreciating the same kind of action ripples in Squad. Even though you can respawn in 30 seconds with LATs in Squad, whether you have ammo to rearm the AT weapon and try again is based on many other factors. You also have to remember that even though the respawn is free (costing 1 ticket from your team score to give up), the ability to respawn is entirely removed possibly starting at 80 meters based on enemy presence. Not to mention that if an APC or IFV is able to pressure your hab directly and just blow up your usual ammo box and keep you contained until overrun. Even just two guys can swing a whole area by getting within 20 meters of a HAB and nobody can spawn there anymore. And if your squad is building backup HABs and running rallies, you have to maintain that supply to be able to let LATs/HATs rearm, not to mention the closest you can put down another fob is 400m away from the next one (and often most teams are running one attack hab and once defense hab). As a general thought though, I do think you can make a HUGE difference with small actions. Think about sappers getting into the back lines and mining logistics routes, think about setting up emplaced MGs at just the right point to suppress dozens of guys trying to push out from the same area, or just some very good combined arms plays where the vehicles are kept safe by working with infantry to exert pressure continuously throughout the whole match, FOB hunting squads that just drive with jeeps to back lines and work off rallies to try and just spot radios for the 20 tickets, and lastly the squads that make the biggest difference by staying on defense habs and patrolling the perimeter (what i mostly do as SL in squad) to engage enemies before they run you over.
These are good points, my view is just a bit different, (some of which based on bad experiences I had as a squad leader in Squad): One time I was camping a road leading to a flag for 20 minutes, where nothing happened at first. Then when the battle started at a flag close to it, my squad was able to intercept 2 enemy armored vehicles. Then I was accused of "not capping the flag" and had to argue with server admins, and that is a common thing in squad, if you are not perceived as capping enough people try to get revenge on you if a match is lost. In Squad players do not appear to have understanding for preparing a strategic position to affect the game 10 or 20 minutes later. People who are not constantly capping appear to be seen as failing their team, often with the desire to get them kicked off the server.
You can do all the same things in Reforger but with more strategic depth to it lol. Squads failure is trying to be an "authentic" and "realistic" game but not having any authentic or realistic game modes. The straight line push AAS variants are the only playable ones. In PR insurgency was great, dynamic, used the whole map, huge range of tactics and strategies. In Squad you are either a back cap defender or a forward attacker. There isnt much else to it. Its also got a bad community where they basically mutually enforce never really fucking the enemy team over. If youre actually good at sapping, which is super easy, take a bike and do mine runs. People will freak out because they dont want to be on the receiving end of those type of tactics and see them become normal. Do the same with IEDs and they dont care. Why? Because IEDs are easily avoided compared to heavily mining a route vehicles cant go around due to the terrain. Squad players basically enforce using subpar tactics or they have little fits and kick you from the squad. Most of the things you could do, you arent allowed to. Also the anyone can revive gameplay is just trash as well as the revive system. Cant kill downed enemies, cant hear enemies on local, headshots dont insta-kill. Its just a very arcade focused game that people like to RP is some kind of tactical shooter. In reality its just a tacticool looking meta shooter. BF with a couple extra steps basically. You combine this with simple, meta focused game modes and it basically feels like a WW2 shooter in modern clothing. But the tactical limitations end at about WW2 levels. Its ultimately just way too easy and simple for what it pretends it is.
@@Tinylittledansonman I don't think Squad is trying to do anything that it's not achieving. It's not trying to be "authentic" or "realistic" in any way where it compromises engagement. They've been honest about the ways in which they skirt realism because it promotes playing the way they intended. You're saying its shallow to have a narrow front line, but in a 50v50 game it's proved to not be popular to spread the engagement too thin; They've decided on how much time they want you to have without fighting someone and are sticking to that. it's why territory control and destruction is never picked as a game mode and why Squads playerbase continues to climb. And I don't think it's a knock on the game that it's just battlefield with a few more layers, it has its place. I don't know where you get the idea that they "enforce" not fucking the enemy team over. There's plenty of opportunities to interrupt supplies or disable enemy spawns with vehicles, small squads, sapping/mining, etc etc. I've been playing every ARMA series game since the original Operation Flashpoint and Squad since its debut on Steam in 2015, with thousands of hours in each, and I think both games serve unique experiences, but I really don't think it's fair to say that what's available for you to do in Squad strategically is somehow less impactful than it would in ARMA. They just go about things in different ways.
@@caracal3892 It is a fair point but in a 1h game, taking 9 people out of fifty and only destroying 2 ennemy armored vehicules in 20 minutes while leaving your team outnumbered can be frustating. In Squad every rifle is necessary as it is smaller scaled than arma. Some player would rather have the types of fight you are describing but others also likes compact and even figths.
@@McSniffle Squads literal self description on steam says its authentic and realistic lol? Im literally quoting the devs. Beyond that they objectively lured the PR community and failed at recreating PR mechanics or even PRs core game mode that separated it from typical shooters, insurgency. It was PRs only dynamic whole map mode. What OWI does is crank out fanboys. That is their goal or as they call it "community building". Ultimately its just too arcade and tourny to be what OWI wants to pretend it is. Whats sadder is the playerbase is more like a social club where everyone pretends thats what it is. Its a frustrating community. They have two modes. "OMG its nor Arma" and "new players are to blame for playing to casually". THe mechanics are casual, the game is casual, you cant have both.
I love this game but unfortunately I just cannot play ut due to ridiculous ping. I can play squad and arma 3 at a good ping but for some reason every time i try this game again I lag out constantly. Hopefully when I get fiber I will be able to play.
Squad and arma are not the same types of games at all, a squad games takes at max 2 hours and habitually is 1 hour longs, It is on a lesser scale than arma and it is a 50 vs 50. It is like if you compare CSGO and Battlefield, they are just not the same tupe of games. But yeah Arma has much more depth than Squad but Squad players(the majority) are not really looking for this depth.
Reforger is heavily focused on being the same type of game as Squad, but more what Squad promised to be on its kickstarter vs what it became. Reforger actually feels more like PR than Squad but also lets you do all that great Arma stuff like set up SP and COOP scenarios as well. Again more similar to PR. Its kind of sad. But yeah BI is definitely going in that direction and coming for Squad hard. If youve played it, its basically Squad but better. Also mods are actually embraced. Ironically Squads community feels a lot like CSGO. If its a modded server no one plays seriously. Ultimately though the straight line push game modes and baby BF style features like no hearing enemy on local, anyone can revive, no instadeath from things like headshots, no ability to finished down enemies really kills any idea of it being what it is claimed to be. Squad is a slightly more advanced BF clone, its not the PR spiritual successor OWI claimed it would be. Conflict is basically Bohemia's Squad, but in a single game mode with way more to offer. Squad has embraced a strict meta as a way of community building but over time its killed the gameplay.
@@Tinylittledansonman Yep mods are bad in Squad but like I said, Squad and Arma are the same type of game and are not made for the same player. In Squad you will look for fierce figths and fast paced action wherease in Reforger you will look for long fight with lots of strategy and a real impact on the game. Hearing ennemy on local is a feature that is half present in Squad, but servers owners and players are not really looking for it (there are fair argument for and against it) moreover headshot were always a 1 shot kills and not finishing downed ennemies just make medics and securing an area useful, you don't leave your downed friends alone or you lose tickets. But like I said some people prefers Squad and other Arma, These are not the same games and should not be compared as they are not for the same peoples.
@@romgba2129 They are the same audience though? At least originally they were. PR even tried to do an A2 Project Reality. They just werent good at putting it together. But yeah in general its the same milsim audience. Like right now Reforger is flooding with new players and most are coming from Squad. Its ironic because Squad always blames new players but new Reforger players whove only played Squad are rough. OWIs thing seems to have become more social meta and building a naive community ignorant of other games. Basically fanboy creation. Which tbh they are good at, but it leads to a lot of weird takes. Reforger fights are far fiercer than Squad though. Similar to how A3 was. Im not sure where people get these ideas. A3 could be a bit slower but when firefights kicked off they were a lot bigger and more intense than Squad could even handle. You have cas aircraft, drones, attack helis, player controlled arrty, so many different factors as well as bigger player counts. A3 supports up to 300 player servers. The popular Reforger servers currently sit at 128 players. Fights are very fast paced and very intense depending on the game mode. That's what Squad players seem to fail to understand. Arma games do what Squad does plus a lot more. Its all about what you pick to play. Thats basically the entire point of Arma.
@@Tinylittledansonman For me and all the people I play with, Squad is not a milsim at all. It maybe tried to be one at the start but it never really became one. It looks more like a Rising Storm than an Arma. And I'm not saying that Arma is bad or Squad is better but just that people who play these games are not the same or don't play them in the same way. You are more rp and focused in Arma and more casual in Squad. When I was speaking about fierce fights, I was speaking about the fact that most fights I had in Reforger where on unsuspecting ennemies. It is not a bad thing but is not like squad where you have a small map and you are most of the time in a firefight. And saying that Squad and Arma have the same audience is as wrong as saying that dcs and microsoft flight sims have the same audience. it is in the same genre but is not the same mood/type of people. Squad may have promised something in 2015 when it lauched but since then it changed a lot and most of it's actual players never played it then. Having aircraft/ifv and everything else in a fight doesn't make it fierce, for exemple R6 fights are fierced and fast paced without them so saying Arma has more players so there is more fierce fights is strange. Especially when you look at the maps and where the fights are taking places. To conclude Reforger is noy focused at all on being like squad and I like it very much, You can have differents experiences on these two differents games but you shouldn't expect to play reforger like you play squad or squad like you play reforger. It is as easy as tht.
@@romgba2129 Its the same players though? Steam heavily correlates these games for a reason, sales statistics. Also Reforgers main game mode, conflict is entirely focused on being a PVP focused Squad/HLL style game mode but without those games failings. Thats why Reforgers sucking in the Squad audience. Squad is just way too easy, literally just play a bit slower and flank around and you will always be smoking large amounts of unsuspecting enemies lol. Its just that people get mad when you do that like I said, because they dont want to actually admit the game is as casual as it is. Its a game with identity issues for people who cant handle stuff like Arma. Thats the only difference I see. Arma has more casual and more realistic than Squad. Those are both options. Squad locks the audience into a meta for the purpose of creating fanboys like you. I get thats hard to swallow but its an easy game that doesnt require much teamwork or coordination. Ironically its that very fact that makes Squad the more RP focused game. Arma has RP but most PVP servers arent RP focused. Those are strictly private coop servers that RP that way. In Squad its a weird RP, people RP it as a serious game but then cry when people point out that type of coordination is unnecessary and actually hinders teams. A huge problem in Squad is bad communication and people talking just to talk because they want to RP, that is the social meta around the game. Its forged its own unique category of "little billys first big boy shooter" which is why the main Squad audience is in their mid to late teens. They only like it because they dont know any better.
@SgtDevRupesh_ALT lol its ok he will come over soon enough.Squad ain't got destruction or maps that anywhere near the detail reforger does. Also reforger is just our stepping stone to ARMA 4. No disrespect to squad but the King is coming back for the throne
Only valid thing Squad players might have is the controls and inventory system, particularly my dad, he hates anything less than very streamlined and simple inventory and UI. I don't mind, but migrating from Squad, it might tick some players off that you have to got to an arsenal, manage your loadout piece by piece to be anything but basic rifleman, and remember after to separately select "Save Loadout" or you go back to generic rifleman after you respawn.
Plus third person being enable by default in PVP really pisses me off, same issue I had with Dayz. Magically seeing around corners is gay.
Other than, lack of map diversity is the only other flaw (I'm only comparing unmodded versions of each game). I think Arma is superior everywhere else, particularly impressive that it simultaneously has better graphics, larger scale, AND better performance.
Bullets actually go where you aim in reforger which is enough to make it kill squad outright. When you start adding all the additional features and mods on it isn't even close, squad looks like battlefield 1942, too bad it isn't nearly as fun anymore 😢 5500 hours in Squad and less than 50 in reforger atm just to throw it out there, I'm assuming I'm going to like reforger even more once I learn it inside and out
This does seem a bit different with the fact that you use up resources to respawn, however I do think you're under-appreciating the same kind of action ripples in Squad. Even though you can respawn in 30 seconds with LATs in Squad, whether you have ammo to rearm the AT weapon and try again is based on many other factors. You also have to remember that even though the respawn is free (costing 1 ticket from your team score to give up), the ability to respawn is entirely removed possibly starting at 80 meters based on enemy presence. Not to mention that if an APC or IFV is able to pressure your hab directly and just blow up your usual ammo box and keep you contained until overrun. Even just two guys can swing a whole area by getting within 20 meters of a HAB and nobody can spawn there anymore. And if your squad is building backup HABs and running rallies, you have to maintain that supply to be able to let LATs/HATs rearm, not to mention the closest you can put down another fob is 400m away from the next one (and often most teams are running one attack hab and once defense hab).
As a general thought though, I do think you can make a HUGE difference with small actions. Think about sappers getting into the back lines and mining logistics routes, think about setting up emplaced MGs at just the right point to suppress dozens of guys trying to push out from the same area, or just some very good combined arms plays where the vehicles are kept safe by working with infantry to exert pressure continuously throughout the whole match, FOB hunting squads that just drive with jeeps to back lines and work off rallies to try and just spot radios for the 20 tickets, and lastly the squads that make the biggest difference by staying on defense habs and patrolling the perimeter (what i mostly do as SL in squad) to engage enemies before they run you over.
These are good points, my view is just a bit different, (some of which based on bad experiences I had as a squad leader in Squad): One time I was camping a road leading to a flag for 20 minutes, where nothing happened at first. Then when the battle started at a flag close to it, my squad was able to intercept 2 enemy armored vehicles. Then I was accused of "not capping the flag" and had to argue with server admins, and that is a common thing in squad, if you are not perceived as capping enough people try to get revenge on you if a match is lost. In Squad players do not appear to have understanding for preparing a strategic position to affect the game 10 or 20 minutes later. People who are not constantly capping appear to be seen as failing their team, often with the desire to get them kicked off the server.
You can do all the same things in Reforger but with more strategic depth to it lol. Squads failure is trying to be an "authentic" and "realistic" game but not having any authentic or realistic game modes. The straight line push AAS variants are the only playable ones. In PR insurgency was great, dynamic, used the whole map, huge range of tactics and strategies. In Squad you are either a back cap defender or a forward attacker. There isnt much else to it. Its also got a bad community where they basically mutually enforce never really fucking the enemy team over. If youre actually good at sapping, which is super easy, take a bike and do mine runs. People will freak out because they dont want to be on the receiving end of those type of tactics and see them become normal. Do the same with IEDs and they dont care. Why? Because IEDs are easily avoided compared to heavily mining a route vehicles cant go around due to the terrain. Squad players basically enforce using subpar tactics or they have little fits and kick you from the squad. Most of the things you could do, you arent allowed to.
Also the anyone can revive gameplay is just trash as well as the revive system. Cant kill downed enemies, cant hear enemies on local, headshots dont insta-kill. Its just a very arcade focused game that people like to RP is some kind of tactical shooter. In reality its just a tacticool looking meta shooter. BF with a couple extra steps basically. You combine this with simple, meta focused game modes and it basically feels like a WW2 shooter in modern clothing. But the tactical limitations end at about WW2 levels. Its ultimately just way too easy and simple for what it pretends it is.
@@Tinylittledansonman I don't think Squad is trying to do anything that it's not achieving. It's not trying to be "authentic" or "realistic" in any way where it compromises engagement. They've been honest about the ways in which they skirt realism because it promotes playing the way they intended. You're saying its shallow to have a narrow front line, but in a 50v50 game it's proved to not be popular to spread the engagement too thin; They've decided on how much time they want you to have without fighting someone and are sticking to that. it's why territory control and destruction is never picked as a game mode and why Squads playerbase continues to climb. And I don't think it's a knock on the game that it's just battlefield with a few more layers, it has its place. I don't know where you get the idea that they "enforce" not fucking the enemy team over. There's plenty of opportunities to interrupt supplies or disable enemy spawns with vehicles, small squads, sapping/mining, etc etc.
I've been playing every ARMA series game since the original Operation Flashpoint and Squad since its debut on Steam in 2015, with thousands of hours in each, and I think both games serve unique experiences, but I really don't think it's fair to say that what's available for you to do in Squad strategically is somehow less impactful than it would in ARMA. They just go about things in different ways.
@@caracal3892 It is a fair point but in a 1h game, taking 9 people out of fifty and only destroying 2 ennemy armored vehicules in 20 minutes while leaving your team outnumbered can be frustating.
In Squad every rifle is necessary as it is smaller scaled than arma. Some player would rather have the types of fight you are describing but others also likes compact and even figths.
@@McSniffle Squads literal self description on steam says its authentic and realistic lol? Im literally quoting the devs. Beyond that they objectively lured the PR community and failed at recreating PR mechanics or even PRs core game mode that separated it from typical shooters, insurgency. It was PRs only dynamic whole map mode. What OWI does is crank out fanboys. That is their goal or as they call it "community building".
Ultimately its just too arcade and tourny to be what OWI wants to pretend it is. Whats sadder is the playerbase is more like a social club where everyone pretends thats what it is. Its a frustrating community. They have two modes. "OMG its nor Arma" and "new players are to blame for playing to casually".
THe mechanics are casual, the game is casual, you cant have both.
I love this game but unfortunately I just cannot play ut due to ridiculous ping. I can play squad and arma 3 at a good ping but for some reason every time i try this game again I lag out constantly. Hopefully when I get fiber I will be able to play.
the reason for you lagging out is reforger is almost entirely server based (which in theory should mean no more vehicles getting armaed on each other)
Squad and arma are not the same types of games at all, a squad games takes at max 2 hours and habitually is 1 hour longs, It is on a lesser scale than arma and it is a 50 vs 50.
It is like if you compare CSGO and Battlefield, they are just not the same tupe of games.
But yeah Arma has much more depth than Squad but Squad players(the majority) are not really looking for this depth.
Reforger is heavily focused on being the same type of game as Squad, but more what Squad promised to be on its kickstarter vs what it became. Reforger actually feels more like PR than Squad but also lets you do all that great Arma stuff like set up SP and COOP scenarios as well. Again more similar to PR. Its kind of sad. But yeah BI is definitely going in that direction and coming for Squad hard. If youve played it, its basically Squad but better. Also mods are actually embraced. Ironically Squads community feels a lot like CSGO. If its a modded server no one plays seriously. Ultimately though the straight line push game modes and baby BF style features like no hearing enemy on local, anyone can revive, no instadeath from things like headshots, no ability to finished down enemies really kills any idea of it being what it is claimed to be. Squad is a slightly more advanced BF clone, its not the PR spiritual successor OWI claimed it would be.
Conflict is basically Bohemia's Squad, but in a single game mode with way more to offer. Squad has embraced a strict meta as a way of community building but over time its killed the gameplay.
@@Tinylittledansonman Yep mods are bad in Squad but like I said, Squad and Arma are the same type of game and are not made for the same player. In Squad you will look for fierce figths and fast paced action wherease in Reforger you will look for long fight with lots of strategy and a real impact on the game.
Hearing ennemy on local is a feature that is half present in Squad, but servers owners and players are not really looking for it (there are fair argument for and against it) moreover headshot were always a 1 shot kills and not finishing downed ennemies just make medics and securing an area useful, you don't leave your downed friends alone or you lose tickets.
But like I said some people prefers Squad and other Arma, These are not the same games and should not be compared as they are not for the same peoples.
@@romgba2129 They are the same audience though? At least originally they were. PR even tried to do an A2 Project Reality. They just werent good at putting it together. But yeah in general its the same milsim audience. Like right now Reforger is flooding with new players and most are coming from Squad. Its ironic because Squad always blames new players but new Reforger players whove only played Squad are rough.
OWIs thing seems to have become more social meta and building a naive community ignorant of other games. Basically fanboy creation. Which tbh they are good at, but it leads to a lot of weird takes.
Reforger fights are far fiercer than Squad though. Similar to how A3 was. Im not sure where people get these ideas. A3 could be a bit slower but when firefights kicked off they were a lot bigger and more intense than Squad could even handle. You have cas aircraft, drones, attack helis, player controlled arrty, so many different factors as well as bigger player counts. A3 supports up to 300 player servers. The popular Reforger servers currently sit at 128 players. Fights are very fast paced and very intense depending on the game mode. That's what Squad players seem to fail to understand. Arma games do what Squad does plus a lot more. Its all about what you pick to play. Thats basically the entire point of Arma.
@@Tinylittledansonman For me and all the people I play with, Squad is not a milsim at all. It maybe tried to be one at the start but it never really became one.
It looks more like a Rising Storm than an Arma. And I'm not saying that Arma is bad or Squad is better but just that people who play these games are not the same or don't play them in the same way.
You are more rp and focused in Arma and more casual in Squad.
When I was speaking about fierce fights, I was speaking about the fact that most fights I had in Reforger where on unsuspecting ennemies. It is not a bad thing but is not like squad where you have a small map and you are most of the time in a firefight.
And saying that Squad and Arma have the same audience is as wrong as saying that dcs and microsoft flight sims have the same audience.
it is in the same genre but is not the same mood/type of people.
Squad may have promised something in 2015 when it lauched but since then it changed a lot and most of it's actual players never played it then.
Having aircraft/ifv and everything else in a fight doesn't make it fierce, for exemple R6 fights are fierced and fast paced without them so saying Arma has more players so there is more fierce fights is strange. Especially when you look at the maps and where the fights are taking places.
To conclude Reforger is noy focused at all on being like squad and I like it very much, You can have differents experiences on these two differents games but you shouldn't expect to play reforger like you play squad or squad like you play reforger.
It is as easy as tht.
@@romgba2129 Its the same players though? Steam heavily correlates these games for a reason, sales statistics. Also Reforgers main game mode, conflict is entirely focused on being a PVP focused Squad/HLL style game mode but without those games failings. Thats why Reforgers sucking in the Squad audience.
Squad is just way too easy, literally just play a bit slower and flank around and you will always be smoking large amounts of unsuspecting enemies lol. Its just that people get mad when you do that like I said, because they dont want to actually admit the game is as casual as it is. Its a game with identity issues for people who cant handle stuff like Arma. Thats the only difference I see. Arma has more casual and more realistic than Squad. Those are both options. Squad locks the audience into a meta for the purpose of creating fanboys like you. I get thats hard to swallow but its an easy game that doesnt require much teamwork or coordination.
Ironically its that very fact that makes Squad the more RP focused game. Arma has RP but most PVP servers arent RP focused. Those are strictly private coop servers that RP that way. In Squad its a weird RP, people RP it as a serious game but then cry when people point out that type of coordination is unnecessary and actually hinders teams. A huge problem in Squad is bad communication and people talking just to talk because they want to RP, that is the social meta around the game. Its forged its own unique category of "little billys first big boy shooter" which is why the main Squad audience is in their mid to late teens. They only like it because they dont know any better.
When you was shooting out the window at the cars you had your Ak range at 440m that’s why you was missing them shoots
Genuinely interesting.
Reforger is very interesting because of the quietness between the battles and the effort before getting into a firefight
Nah squad is much more fun.. Arma has to much or too many patch to download..
my squad file is 80gb while reforger is 20gb
@SgtDevRupesh_ALT lol its ok he will come over soon enough.Squad ain't got destruction or maps that anywhere near the detail reforger does. Also reforger is just our stepping stone to ARMA 4. No disrespect to squad but the King is coming back for the throne
@SgtDevRupesh_ALT can't even compare ARMA to squad, very different type of gameplay style
Bro Arma reforger is smaller. I have no idea what you’re on about.