Thanks bro! It’s a great starter video, if you want more technical details, Justin at Engineer’s perspective made a great video: ruclips.net/video/NWFXXCMxgxM/видео.html And Larrin Thomas, the developer also made a pretty comprehensive explanation: ruclips.net/video/dg4qcdDba9w/видео.html Cheers!
I read the article by Larrin and I really appreciate your comparisons and your simplification. Dr. Thomas is a metallurgist working in the automobile industry as such and he comes from a family of knife makers. I doubt that there’s more than half a dozen of people in the world that have the knowledge of steel and the passion for knives to be able to do what he did and there’s even less than that that are willing to take the financial risk. Luckily for us, it takes only one Larrin Thomas.
Amen bro - well said. The more I think about it the more I appreciate him taking the risk and his dedication. I think even if I was twice as sure about it, I'd have still faltered when it came time to pay up. It's so cool that he actually did it - feels a little like GameShark CheatCodes on the Nintendo64, like you just took all the steel's stats and boosted them HAHA! Take care.
Thank you, thank you,, this is the very best video on steel composition, that I've ever seen,, I have a CRK Inkosi on order, and I'm so, so, glad it comes in Magnacut,,, thank you again, I'll be watching this video over and over again,, all the very best, from England,, 🇬🇧,, ps, I live around an hours drive from Sheffield, where the very first stainless steels were developed,,
I grew up not poor, but with a healthy appreciation for the value of a dollar. I've owned dozens of gas station knives (just the regular ones not the idiotic looking ones that are as likely to cut you as what you're wanting to cut) but after hearing about Magnacut I bought a Pro-Tech Mordax after months of searching and while it necessarily wasn't life changing for my day to day, I treasure that knife and carry it with pride because I mildly know what went into its creation and I may have started an addiction. I really like your break down of the steel and you definitely earned me as a sub.
Thanks, and welcome! I'm glad the MagnaCut video was insightful and fun for you - and I hope that many other videos on the channel are as well! Cheers.
Much respect sir. I have been into knives for several years and I feel like you just cured a lot of slightly misunderstood aspects of steel composition for me. I have also read and listened to larrin before but you did an elegant job of explaining it in terms and graphs I could understand!
Thanks heaps Wesley! I'm so glad it was helpful. I am learning more all the time, and have such respect for folks like Larrin Thomas, who has (and still presently does) help me uncover my own misunderstandings about metallurgy. Even since I filmed this video I have realized there is so much I have misunderstood - it is a privilege to get to learn and pursue truth together. Cheers.
I can’t fault you for this, it’s such a incredibly important part of the modern knifes that is completely over locked by 90% if not more of the knife collecting community just because it’s a little bit of head full too actually take in! So thanking very kindly for taking your time to try your very best in trying to hammer this into our heads😘👍🏼
Yeah, that makes sense bro! I had the decision, do I simplify it so much that I'm no clearer than anyone else is being, or do I speak slowly and make a laborious hour long series on this, or do I try to simplify somewhere in between, talk fast and cram it into a 20 minute video that's barely digestable? I chose to hit it fast and full and hopefully it's helpful to most intermediate steel junkies. All good if it's too rapid fire, I get that. Hope that parts of it were still helpful for you! PS What happened to your hand in your profile pic!? Are those stitches?
@@homeslicesharpening you did a perfect job my man as for the picture of my hand they are indeed stitches i had a little bit of a lapse of concentration 🥴 long story short i had a very slim bodied top flipper that was a rather detent strong so i was smacking into the palm of my left hand and flicking it off to the right, this caused the new dog i had not long rescued to get very interested in what i was doing! Which meant the dog started to come and have a little look well this is where it all went tits up!! I was worried I would come off my palm and into said dogs face. So my attention was not where it should have been and I didn’t notice the s35 blade had actually fallen open as I was looking at the dog walking in and I brought the knife down and OHH FECK that feels sort of different ohh that’s why as i looked and seen the palm of my hand then turned my hand over and could see about 5 mm of the point sticking out the back of my hand🙄 i only did the middle part across the palm the rest of it was done by the surgeon cutting it open trying too get at the two tendons i had cut clean in half. The best part of the whole thing i was only just about to put a tidy edge on it as it didn’t really feel that good to me! Thank feck I didn’t or i think i would have just cut my hand in half lol. Please forgive the punctuation i am dyslexic as a house brick sorry the short version was still a mini book! Have a beautiful day brother stay safe and healthy 😉👍🏼
@@SkunkPunch73 No problem about the punctuation bro, my condolences to your palm and tendons, I hope that it heals up and you get full range of motion and strength back! I’ll pray for you today bro. Thanks for sharing, and good job not letting it make you too discouraged! Peace out.
@@homeslicesharpening thank you very kindly brother that is very kind of you and much appreciated 👍🏼👍🏼 have a absolutely beautiful day and remember watch out for the sharp side hahaha 😉
Well... he has a bit of an advantage there. I'm not shooting to replace Larrin, just helping fill in the picture for newbies, beginners, and laymen I loved his video though - he did an awesome job!!! Cheers bro.
You managed it Gabe, totally understandable and entertaining may i add. I imagine the sleepless nights he must have endured just to find the exact solution of how to produce the MagnaCut with all facts in consideration. The supersteel that well has a super price for now, but is an immense breakthru in knife steel. The world benefits from people who invent and can produce steels like that, now if only it becomes available to the masses how lucky would we be. Thank you friend for the explaination and for the fun. Have a nice week Gabe.
Thanks for your thoughts Jeroen. Yes, I'm really thankful for people who approach life with creativity and willingness to risk, and end up pushing the envelope of "possible". Take care bro!
That’s fantastic! Such encouraging feedback. I always hope that my content can simplify and bring enjoyment by first bringing clarity. Welcome to the channel! Thanks for the input. Stick around!
Thanks so much! Welcome to the channel! I’m glad you found it helpful! I have an entire series of shorts on the basics of metallurgy in my “knife talk” playlist, if you have any friends who are not yet advanced but want to learn more! Cheers!
Wow - Knife Modders! You guys rock! I check in with your channel every now and then ever since Pete tagged us both in that "5 Knives That Bring Joy" series. How did the Kapara regrind go? Was this Richie or Lindy? I used to do refinishing and Ti anodizing but you guys are next level. Cheers guys - take care. Thanks for the feedback.
Those DBK guys are the ones that got me excited about different types of steel, but only in a "this steel is amazing" kind of way. But I thoroughly enjoyed this laymen's term breakdown of what's happening! Thanks mate!
Hey, no problem - thanks for visiting! Nothing wrong with simplicity, but I'm glad the video was helpful for enjoying some of the details of these metallurgy marvels we are creating these days. Take care bro, cheers.
Very exciting future for blades....when you are talking about corrosion resistance, got to admit I was waiting for you to reference to Vanax....but you neatly dodged it, went from H1, LC200N to M390.
Haha! Yep. I try to stay away from comparing or claiming things about steels I've never used (or had a trusted friend who did), and I don't know anyone who's had Vanax and never had it myself. I'm sure that the corrosion resistance would probably be higher than MC I'd assume (all that Nitro!) but I like to be able to speak from study AND experience whenever possible. Cheers bro.
Hey bro, Y0UTU8E is filtering out all your comments trying to give your emaiI, but I did receive one before it was filtered out and sent you a message to test. Can you check your junk maiI?
I think toughness is more the ability of the steel to withstand sudden shock, impact. Where as the metals ability to withstand "load", as you put it measures its strength. For example you can place a bar of steel in a vice, and start hanging heavy plates on. The amout of weight it would take before the steel snaps, or permanently bends, "takes a set", would measure its strength. While placing the same exact piece into a vice, and suddenly striking it with a 5lb sledge hammer to see, if it flexes and returns to true, deforms, and has dents and deformation spots where the hamer struck it, or just shatters to pieces would gage the steels toughness. I just bring it up because often people use the term strength and toughness interchangeably as if its a same quality. When in reality those are two different qualities of the steel. A steel can be very strong, meaning would take a lot of weight/load before it breaks, but not be very tough and snap suddenly when subjected to a violent blow. And same can be true in reverse. A steel can be very tough being able to take massive blows and impacts with out breaking but put in a vice and having heavy loads hung from it, would start to flex, bend and ultimately break much earlier under less load than a stronger steel. The trick is to find a balance where a steel is both strong and tough at the same time. And its typically not a easy task, since strength often increases with higher hardness, but toughness decreases with the same high hardness. And the reverse can be true too, toughness increases with lower hardness but strength decreases with lower hardness. And every steel has a different "sweet spot", depending on its composition. Some lower carbon steels can be tougher and stronger at harnesses of 60+rc than steels that have higher carbon content and their optimal sweet spot might be below 60rc. No two steels are the same and altering even the slightest chemical composition can have unexpected changes that can be at times beneficial or detrimental. This is what makes the science of knife steels so frustrating and exciting at the same time.
Interesting thoughts! Yeah, I get what you are saying. I have never seen “strength” as you describe it being measured in a quantitative way. Only Charpy testing for toughness, and Rockwell testing for hardness. As such, I find that for most knife users, it’s easier to discuss the balance between hardness and toughness using numbers as it makes it more easily accessible to a wider audience. Hardness is not strength as you describe, but combines with composition and structure to create strength, or lack thereof. But I’m trying to create a place for people who don’t understand to start their journey. Not disagreeing, just simplifying - hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for the detailed comment!
There's 2 types of strength, yield strength which is how much force you can apply and it returns true, and ultimate strength, which is how much force it takes before it breaks. Toughness is moreso the area under the curve, how much energy it absorbs before breaking, and permanent bending takes a lot of energy to do, but the spring zone not as much. To get both strength plus taking more energy to bend permanently because of that makes it tough. If it was soft and ductile it wouldn't take as much force to bend permanently, so it's not as tough overall, but may bend further during that impact. You need both for a good knife, since if it never bends permanently it gets very chippy and takes way less force to break since it can't absorb much by plastic deformation - which burns that energy off with friction heat.
That's a good point - we all think it was planned so well in hindsight but before its release everyone thought it was gonna be like slightly more stain resistant/wear resistant CruWear! I remember reading how surprised Larrin was in his article!
My pleasure, I've been pleased to see the video take off (for such a small channel), there really is a thirst in the community for more research and to understand the metallurgy miracles that they are producing these days. I think it's awesome. Thanks for viewing!
Yes that is why Kabar and Case Cutlery used to use the 50100B carbon steel and then they'd literally chrome plate them if you have ever seen an old old Kabar marked Union Cutlery Co then you have a 50100B blade that is chrome plated hence the reason you see the outside layer is always shiny and the part of the edge where some old man has taken it to a bench grinder is usually black or rusty and pitted... please don't try and challenge this knowledge as I live here in Olean NY where Kabar is made and my family has worked there since way way back and I've got some kabar/union cut co knives that're over 100yrs old in my collection
Haha - I love my KaBar! Have you seen the 1000 Chop Test? Link below 👇 ruclips.net/video/C-QD3WIa_s4/видео.html Yeah, I know you are talking about old KaBar/Case knives and I did know about the practice of chrome-plating. Mad Dog Knives still practices this with their O1 knives. Thanks for the cool comment. Take care Kevin.
You could be a knife nut. MC is poised to be the declared the world's best knife steel next year. You went bonkers a year ago, when only Thomas and you knew. Duuuuude!😳
Haha! Yeah, so exciting! I’m excited to get to sharpen and use it more (just bought a Hogue Deka in MC, and a viewer is sending a fixed blade at 63 HRC as well!) It was Larrin’s dream steel, but I am happy to have had a similar dream and ride the wave with everybody. Do you have any knives in MC yet? Cheers bro.
There is also ductility or strength some people call it. Where you bend a blade 45 deg or more and it returns back to straight (or doesn't and stays bent at a certain angle).
ruclips.net/video/yC2PLk_04vE/видео.html end segment of this video is an example. Notice even over 90 it doesn't break. But doesn't go back to straight. Normal 3v doesn't really do this. But Nathan is a heat treatment nerd.
Also delta 3v a different heat treatment for 3v to allow it to be more stainless and more toughness/edge stability ruclips.net/video/NxSRrg1m8J8/видео.html It would be interesting to compare delta3v to magnacut.
@@tacticalcenter8658 3v isn't stainless. s30v is. s30v is an excellent well balanced cutlery steel. It's not as stainless or tough as magnacut tho. Magnacut is a newer one that's closer to a stainless version of 4v. It's basically s40v. Sorta. Compared to 3v Magnacut isn't nearly as tough as but it has marginally better edge retention. If you're not worried about corrosion, obviously you could do way better in terms of other performance metrics. Magnacut is all about being extremely stainless with high toughness and good edge retention. But compared to less stainless steels, it's going to have less edge retention and toughness. It's always a tradeoff. Even if you are worried about corrosion, a laminated blade, san mai style, should always be considered an option. I'd like to see someone try something like 10v or 15v laminated with something like lc200n or some other very stainless, very tough steels. 14c, 420hc, even aeb-l, for a pocket knife, laminated 3v or 4v might be interesting in a kitchen knife.
@@jeffhicks8428 ruclips.net/video/rY8IFivjcGA/видео.html Also the delta heat treat for 3v is more stain resistant than standard 3v heat treat. Sure its still going to rust. But much better resistance. I know a lot about steel and heat treat. The reason why delta 3v protocol helps make 3v stain less than normal 3v is the low heat temper leaves more of the chromium in solution. 3v doesn't have enough chromium to make it a stainless steel but the normal heat treat outlines a high heat temper which forms carbides instead of having that chromium in solution.
@@jeffhicks8428 magnacut basically takes a steel like s30v and modifications to carbon and chromium content that would provide hardness and adequate chromium in solution for corrosion resistance while promoting the formation of vanadium and niobium carbides for wear resistance and toughness. Magnacut at 63-64rc, edge retention is in the m390 range of edge retention.
Nice bro - how are you finding it so far? Is it everything you wanted it to be or are there some drawbacks? I don't know how astronomical shipping is to New Zealand from where you are, but if you want someone to test out the edges your MagnaCut takes I'd be happy to! If you make Medium sized fixed blade knives, I'm dying to know how Magnacut performs as a moderate-duty chopper. No pressure though, it's just nice to know my videos are reaching and blessing some actual knife-makers!
Like the vid overall but I have one little question. In the beginning you say toughness leads to edge stability but I always thought that it was hardness that prevented rolling.Did I misunderstand?
That’s an absolutely great question. There are a couple of main factors that contribute to edge stability, so far as I understand! It seems like the main ones are hardness, toughness, and grain structure/type and size of carbides. Hardness tends to make the edge not want to bend or deform or be worn away (but can lead to chipping) - toughness contributes to age stability by reducing the likelihood of chipping or fracturing, or said another way toughness increases the ability of the edge to flex or bend without breaking. Grain structure dictates how large individual Crystaline sections of the steel are, and carbides play into that and are each their own hardness level and size. Together these 2 play into the toughness of the steel AND dictate how large chips or damaged portions of edge will be. When I say that toughness is needed for edge stability, I mainly mean that A) toughness reduces the likelihood of the edge giving out by chipping and B) steels that have a higher level of toughness can afford to be brought to higher hardness (also increasing edge stability) without the worry that they will become too brittle. Does that make sense? It was clear in my brain but I feel like it came out a little garbled.
Nice video, very explanatory for novices. I know the you tube channel "knive steel nerds" but I did not ask him when we will find the magna cut in big production by the biggest firms. Do you have any information ?
Hello, welcome to the channel - and thanks for the feedback. I am glad you found the video to be helpful, I aim to make knife and steel stuff easier to get into to inspire new people to gain an interest! Feel free to share with your friends if they are interested but don't understand the details! In this video interview Larrin explains that Magnacut is somewhat back-ordered: ruclips.net/video/Gua-8l4a_Mw/видео.html It sounds like the first batch of MagnaCut was a smaller sample batch and sold out very quickly to smaller custom makers. I'd anticipate we will see it in a few large scale production knives when the big brands reveal their new models at SHOT Show 2022, but I think it will be very very widespread by SHOT Show 2023.
WHAAAAAAAT!?!?! Bro, congrats. I am pretty sure with the mood of the knife community right now, you could sell that stuff ounce for ounce at a greater price than sterling silver 🤣 Hey, if you work out your HT and are pleased and make a few blades - I actually do some pretty unique testing, and would love to test a loaner knife in MagnaCut, of course I'd resharpen it after, and send it back to you. Keep me in mind, if you want. Otherwise, I'm glad the video resonated with you, take care.
Is there any sort of stardardized test (analogous to charpy) that measures the wear resistance of a steel in a direct, standardized way? I guess CATRA tests are kind of close, but even that is a test of blades, rather than of steel.
Catra is the only one I am super familiar with, other than good ole' Pete over at Cedric & Ada. I suppose CATRA is a test of blades, but if the blades are a standardized size, shape, geometry, and hardness, that ought to weed out most variables that would muddy the waters. Have you seen Larrin's CATRA at knifesteelnerds.com, he does most of that. knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/ Did you have a non-blade-related need for wear resistance? I'd be very interested to know what it is! Thanks for the comment.
I'm into Magnacut for quite some time. My question is why all those prototype knives have chipping problem. It seem to be that CPM CruWear can't be beaten by Magnacut here
I have not seen tests where MagnaCut has chipping problems - could you find a link and send it to me here? It does always seem that less Chrome in the steel solution does add some amount of edge stability that is hard to measure. I think that CruWear will always have a place, and I think it will be strong in different areas than MagnaCut. But I think that MagnaCut will be quite an improvement to most of the stainless steels we see now in production knives!
There are steels with no chrome, I think all of your 1095, 1075, 1055 steels are like that! But steel is a wild animal, man - it rarely does what you think it should. For instance, they have found that up to a certain threshold, steel's hardness and toughness capacity actually improves with a bit of chrome. This is why you see KaBar using 1095 CroVan or many makers using 80CrV2. In both cases the carbon steel has trace amounts of chrome added, because somehow it makes the atomic structure cleaner and increases the toughness of the steel. Anyway it's a delicate balance, 0 chrome is less tough, tons of chrome is less tough, but there is no perfect amount. Which is to say, the perfect amount depends on the purpose you want to use it for, and how much carbon you put in that it is bonding with. Hopefully that makes sense - thanks for the comment!!! PS Blueing would be interesting though. I understand it does harden the outer layer of the steel somewhat.
At 2:25 you say Larrin, I presume the name of an individual, as if everyone watching this video is already supposed to know who or what a Larrin in. If that was indeed the case, just wondering, what would be the purpose of the video? If everyone already knew exactly who or what you meant when you said that, why would they need to watch this video in the first place? Does that make sense? Kinda seems like the video is more about explaining something you're trying to learn about yourself so that you can absord and understand it better, rather than really a video designed to educate an audience from a place of expertise. It's cool. Just a bit odd.
Hey Jeff - welcome to the channel. I am sorry for the lack of context. I had assumed at the time that most of the people looking into MagnaCut steel were doing so because of the article written by its creator, Dr. Larrin Thomas - who runs the excellent website knifesteelnerds.com Since that time the steel has exploded in popularity, and many folks know and own it without understanding its origins. My video also has grown in popularity slightly, as the steel becomes better known, and my oversight in not giving context in the video is more glaring. If I could go back and edit it, I would, but RUclips allows no such thing. If I make further videos about MagnaCut I will take your advice into account. Thanks. If you want to know more about how/why Larrin Thomas developed MagnaCut, his article is here: knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/ My apologies that your comment was barred from the video initially. I found that RUclips had sorted into the spam comments, and I rescued it from there and published it. Cheers.
This has to be the best explanation of a knife steel ever!
Thanks bro! It’s a great starter video, if you want more technical details, Justin at Engineer’s perspective made a great video:
ruclips.net/video/NWFXXCMxgxM/видео.html
And Larrin Thomas, the developer also made a pretty comprehensive explanation:
ruclips.net/video/dg4qcdDba9w/видео.html
Cheers!
I read the article by Larrin and I really appreciate your comparisons and your simplification. Dr. Thomas is a metallurgist working in the automobile industry as such and he comes from a family of knife makers. I doubt that there’s more than half a dozen of people in the world that have the knowledge of steel and the passion for knives to be able to do what he did and there’s even less than that that are willing to take the financial risk. Luckily for us, it takes only one Larrin Thomas.
Amen bro - well said. The more I think about it the more I appreciate him taking the risk and his dedication. I think even if I was twice as sure about it, I'd have still faltered when it came time to pay up.
It's so cool that he actually did it - feels a little like GameShark CheatCodes on the Nintendo64, like you just took all the steel's stats and boosted them HAHA!
Take care.
Thank you, thank you,, this is the very best video on steel composition, that I've ever seen,,
I have a CRK Inkosi on order, and I'm so, so, glad it comes in Magnacut,,, thank you again, I'll be watching this video over and over again,, all the very best, from England,, 🇬🇧,, ps, I live around an hours drive from Sheffield, where the very first stainless steels were developed,,
That is awesome - I have friends in Sheffield, and I lived there for a little while back in 2011.
I grew up not poor, but with a healthy appreciation for the value of a dollar. I've owned dozens of gas station knives (just the regular ones not the idiotic looking ones that are as likely to cut you as what you're wanting to cut) but after hearing about Magnacut I bought a Pro-Tech Mordax after months of searching and while it necessarily wasn't life changing for my day to day, I treasure that knife and carry it with pride because I mildly know what went into its creation and I may have started an addiction. I really like your break down of the steel and you definitely earned me as a sub.
Thanks bro! PS the Mordax looks awesome, great choice! I have really been enjoying MagnaCut so far, it is so well balanced!!!
Cheers!
I really enjoy your passion and obvious joy on this subject. Good one 👍🏼
Thanks, and welcome! I'm glad the MagnaCut video was insightful and fun for you - and I hope that many other videos on the channel are as well!
Cheers.
Much respect sir. I have been into knives for several years and I feel like you just cured a lot of slightly misunderstood aspects of steel composition for me. I have also read and listened to larrin before but you did an elegant job of explaining it in terms and graphs I could understand!
Thanks heaps Wesley! I'm so glad it was helpful. I am learning more all the time, and have such respect for folks like Larrin Thomas, who has (and still presently does) help me uncover my own misunderstandings about metallurgy.
Even since I filmed this video I have realized there is so much I have misunderstood - it is a privilege to get to learn and pursue truth together.
Cheers.
I can’t fault you for this, it’s such a incredibly important part of the modern knifes that is completely over locked by 90% if not more of the knife collecting community just because it’s a little bit of head full too actually take in! So thanking very kindly for taking your time to try your very best in trying to hammer this into our heads😘👍🏼
Yeah, that makes sense bro!
I had the decision, do I simplify it so much that I'm no clearer than anyone else is being, or do I speak slowly and make a laborious hour long series on this, or do I try to simplify somewhere in between, talk fast and cram it into a 20 minute video that's barely digestable?
I chose to hit it fast and full and hopefully it's helpful to most intermediate steel junkies.
All good if it's too rapid fire, I get that. Hope that parts of it were still helpful for you! PS What happened to your hand in your profile pic!? Are those stitches?
@@homeslicesharpening you did a perfect job my man as for the picture of my hand they are indeed stitches i had a little bit of a lapse of concentration 🥴 long story short i had a very slim bodied top flipper that was a rather detent strong so i was smacking into the palm of my left hand and flicking it off to the right, this caused the new dog i had not long rescued to get very interested in what i was doing! Which meant the dog started to come and have a little look well this is where it all went tits up!! I was worried I would come off my palm and into said dogs face. So my attention was not where it should have been and I didn’t notice the s35 blade had actually fallen open as I was looking at the dog walking in and I brought the knife down and OHH FECK that feels sort of different ohh that’s why as i looked and seen the palm of my hand then turned my hand over and could see about 5 mm of the point sticking out the back of my hand🙄 i only did the middle part across the palm the rest of it was done by the surgeon cutting it open trying too get at the two tendons i had cut clean in half. The best part of the whole thing i was only just about to put a tidy edge on it as it didn’t really feel that good to me! Thank feck I didn’t or i think i would have just cut my hand in half lol. Please forgive the punctuation i am dyslexic as a house brick sorry the short version was still a mini book! Have a beautiful day brother stay safe and healthy 😉👍🏼
@@SkunkPunch73 No problem about the punctuation bro, my condolences to your palm and tendons, I hope that it heals up and you get full range of motion and strength back! I’ll pray for you today bro.
Thanks for sharing, and good job not letting it make you too discouraged! Peace out.
@@homeslicesharpening thank you very kindly brother that is very kind of you and much appreciated 👍🏼👍🏼 have a absolutely beautiful day and remember watch out for the sharp side hahaha 😉
@@SkunkPunch73 will do!
This is the exact channel I’ve been looking for! A knife steel nerd channel🤙🏼
Yeah bro! I love me some nerdy steel talk! What is your favorite steel currently?
Larrin Thomas' own video on his steel is the best explainer of CPM-MagnaCut
Well... he has a bit of an advantage there. I'm not shooting to replace Larrin, just helping fill in the picture for newbies, beginners, and laymen
I loved his video though - he did an awesome job!!!
Cheers bro.
You managed it Gabe, totally understandable and entertaining may i add. I imagine the sleepless nights he must have endured just to find the exact solution of how to produce the MagnaCut with all facts in consideration. The supersteel that well has a super price for now, but is an immense breakthru in knife steel. The world benefits from people who invent and can produce steels like that, now if only it becomes available to the masses how lucky would we be. Thank you friend for the explaination and for the fun. Have a nice week Gabe.
Thanks for your thoughts Jeroen. Yes, I'm really thankful for people who approach life with creativity and willingness to risk, and end up pushing the envelope of "possible".
Take care bro!
@@homeslicesharpening You too Gabe.
This video is very informative, thanks a lot for covering this Gabe!
No problem! I love this stuff - I’m so glad you found it helpful!
Cheers bro.
Great explanation of Magnacut , before I was totally lost. Now I may start to understand enough to enjoy it.
That’s fantastic! Such encouraging feedback. I always hope that my content can simplify and bring enjoyment by first bringing clarity.
Welcome to the channel! Thanks for the input. Stick around!
Thanks for sendin the video Gabe. Really good information!!
Thanks Mal! You reckon you're gonna go Bradford, or are you still considering others?
Absolutely brilliant video, well done!
Thanks so much! Welcome to the channel!
I’m glad you found it helpful! I have an entire series of shorts on the basics of metallurgy in my “knife talk” playlist, if you have any friends who are not yet advanced but want to learn more!
Cheers!
Wow, this was so awesome! Great to watch/listen to. I really enjoyed this😊
Wow - Knife Modders! You guys rock! I check in with your channel every now and then ever since Pete tagged us both in that "5 Knives That Bring Joy" series. How did the Kapara regrind go? Was this Richie or Lindy? I used to do refinishing and Ti anodizing but you guys are next level.
Cheers guys - take care. Thanks for the feedback.
Those DBK guys are the ones that got me excited about different types of steel, but only in a "this steel is amazing" kind of way. But I thoroughly enjoyed this laymen's term breakdown of what's happening! Thanks mate!
Hey, no problem - thanks for visiting! Nothing wrong with simplicity, but I'm glad the video was helpful for enjoying some of the details of these metallurgy marvels we are creating these days.
Take care bro, cheers.
Very exciting future for blades....when you are talking about corrosion resistance, got to admit I was waiting for you to reference to Vanax....but you neatly dodged it, went from H1, LC200N to M390.
Haha! Yep. I try to stay away from comparing or claiming things about steels I've never used (or had a trusted friend who did), and I don't know anyone who's had Vanax and never had it myself.
I'm sure that the corrosion resistance would probably be higher than MC I'd assume (all that Nitro!) but I like to be able to speak from study AND experience whenever possible.
Cheers bro.
Hey bro, Y0UTU8E is filtering out all your comments trying to give your emaiI, but I did receive one before it was filtered out and sent you a message to test. Can you check your junk maiI?
@@homeslicesharpening No probs, got it!
@@bunyipdan perfect!
Nice breakdown. Thanks.
No problem friend! Thanks for stopping by. I hope it helped you further appreciate the modern marvel that MagnaCut stands to be.
Have a good day!
Thanks for your spin on the topic. 😸👍
No problem! Welcome to the channel - hope you stick around and find it helpful!
Cheers bro!
I think toughness is more the ability of the steel to withstand sudden shock, impact. Where as the metals ability to withstand "load", as you put it measures its strength. For example you can place a bar of steel in a vice, and start hanging heavy plates on. The amout of weight it would take before the steel snaps, or permanently bends, "takes a set", would measure its strength. While placing the same exact piece into a vice, and suddenly striking it with a 5lb sledge hammer to see, if it flexes and returns to true, deforms, and has dents and deformation spots where the hamer struck it, or just shatters to pieces would gage the steels toughness. I just bring it up because often people use the term strength and toughness interchangeably as if its a same quality. When in reality those are two different qualities of the steel. A steel can be very strong, meaning would take a lot of weight/load before it breaks, but not be very tough and snap suddenly when subjected to a violent blow. And same can be true in reverse. A steel can be very tough being able to take massive blows and impacts with out breaking but put in a vice and having heavy loads hung from it, would start to flex, bend and ultimately break much earlier under less load than a stronger steel. The trick is to find a balance where a steel is both strong and tough at the same time. And its typically not a easy task, since strength often increases with higher hardness, but toughness decreases with the same high hardness. And the reverse can be true too, toughness increases with lower hardness but strength decreases with lower hardness. And every steel has a different "sweet spot", depending on its composition. Some lower carbon steels can be tougher and stronger at harnesses of 60+rc than steels that have higher carbon content and their optimal sweet spot might be below 60rc. No two steels are the same and altering even the slightest chemical composition can have unexpected changes that can be at times beneficial or detrimental. This is what makes the science of knife steels so frustrating and exciting at the same time.
Interesting thoughts! Yeah, I get what you are saying. I have never seen “strength” as you describe it being measured in a quantitative way. Only Charpy testing for toughness, and Rockwell testing for hardness.
As such, I find that for most knife users, it’s easier to discuss the balance between hardness and toughness using numbers as it makes it more easily accessible to a wider audience.
Hardness is not strength as you describe, but combines with composition and structure to create strength, or lack thereof.
But I’m trying to create a place for people who don’t understand to start their journey.
Not disagreeing, just simplifying - hopefully that makes sense.
Thanks for the detailed comment!
There's 2 types of strength, yield strength which is how much force you can apply and it returns true, and ultimate strength, which is how much force it takes before it breaks. Toughness is moreso the area under the curve, how much energy it absorbs before breaking, and permanent bending takes a lot of energy to do, but the spring zone not as much. To get both strength plus taking more energy to bend permanently because of that makes it tough. If it was soft and ductile it wouldn't take as much force to bend permanently, so it's not as tough overall, but may bend further during that impact. You need both for a good knife, since if it never bends permanently it gets very chippy and takes way less force to break since it can't absorb much by plastic deformation - which burns that energy off with friction heat.
It might have been a bit of luck, considering that even Larrin didn't expect magnacut to be that strong against corrosion
That's a good point - we all think it was planned so well in hindsight but before its release everyone thought it was gonna be like slightly more stain resistant/wear resistant CruWear!
I remember reading how surprised Larrin was in his article!
Great story at the end! I would be happy about a video showing somebody operating a Paragon oven to harden Magnacut
Thanks bro! I am so stoked that we have MagnaCut even if he beat me to the punch! What's a paragon oven?
Great vid
Thank you! I’m so glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing! Exciting!
My pleasure, I've been pleased to see the video take off (for such a small channel), there really is a thirst in the community for more research and to understand the metallurgy miracles that they are producing these days. I think it's awesome. Thanks for viewing!
Yes that is why Kabar and Case Cutlery used to use the 50100B carbon steel and then they'd literally chrome plate them if you have ever seen an old old Kabar marked Union Cutlery Co then you have a 50100B blade that is chrome plated hence the reason you see the outside layer is always shiny and the part of the edge where some old man has taken it to a bench grinder is usually black or rusty and pitted... please don't try and challenge this knowledge as I live here in Olean NY where Kabar is made and my family has worked there since way way back and I've got some kabar/union cut co knives that're over 100yrs old in my collection
Haha - I love my KaBar! Have you seen the 1000 Chop Test? Link below 👇
ruclips.net/video/C-QD3WIa_s4/видео.html
Yeah, I know you are talking about old KaBar/Case knives and I did know about the practice of chrome-plating.
Mad Dog Knives still practices this with their O1 knives. Thanks for the cool comment. Take care Kevin.
You could be a knife nut. MC is poised to be the declared the world's best knife steel next year. You went bonkers a year ago, when only Thomas and you knew. Duuuuude!😳
Haha! Yeah, so exciting! I’m excited to get to sharpen and use it more (just bought a Hogue Deka in MC, and a viewer is sending a fixed blade at 63 HRC as well!)
It was Larrin’s dream steel, but I am happy to have had a similar dream and ride the wave with everybody.
Do you have any knives in MC yet? Cheers bro.
Learned a lot thanks
No problem bro, I’m glad it was helpful!
There is also ductility or strength some people call it. Where you bend a blade 45 deg or more and it returns back to straight (or doesn't and stays bent at a certain angle).
ruclips.net/video/yC2PLk_04vE/видео.html end segment of this video is an example. Notice even over 90 it doesn't break. But doesn't go back to straight. Normal 3v doesn't really do this. But Nathan is a heat treatment nerd.
Also delta 3v a different heat treatment for 3v to allow it to be more stainless and more toughness/edge stability ruclips.net/video/NxSRrg1m8J8/видео.html
It would be interesting to compare delta3v to magnacut.
@@tacticalcenter8658 3v isn't stainless. s30v is. s30v is an excellent well balanced cutlery steel. It's not as stainless or tough as magnacut tho. Magnacut is a newer one that's closer to a stainless version of 4v. It's basically s40v. Sorta. Compared to 3v Magnacut isn't nearly as tough as but it has marginally better edge retention. If you're not worried about corrosion, obviously you could do way better in terms of other performance metrics. Magnacut is all about being extremely stainless with high toughness and good edge retention. But compared to less stainless steels, it's going to have less edge retention and toughness. It's always a tradeoff. Even if you are worried about corrosion, a laminated blade, san mai style, should always be considered an option. I'd like to see someone try something like 10v or 15v laminated with something like lc200n or some other very stainless, very tough steels. 14c, 420hc, even aeb-l, for a pocket knife, laminated 3v or 4v might be interesting in a kitchen knife.
@@jeffhicks8428 ruclips.net/video/rY8IFivjcGA/видео.html
Also the delta heat treat for 3v is more stain resistant than standard 3v heat treat. Sure its still going to rust. But much better resistance. I know a lot about steel and heat treat.
The reason why delta 3v protocol helps make 3v stain less than normal 3v is the low heat temper leaves more of the chromium in solution. 3v doesn't have enough chromium to make it a stainless steel but the normal heat treat outlines a high heat temper which forms carbides instead of having that chromium in solution.
@@jeffhicks8428 magnacut basically takes a steel like s30v and modifications to carbon and chromium content that would provide hardness and adequate chromium in solution for corrosion resistance while promoting the formation of vanadium and niobium carbides for wear resistance and toughness.
Magnacut at 63-64rc, edge retention is in the m390 range of edge retention.
I’m out here heat treating testing and making my own magnacut knives, I’m a very small scale custom maker
Nice bro - how are you finding it so far? Is it everything you wanted it to be or are there some drawbacks?
I don't know how astronomical shipping is to New Zealand from where you are, but if you want someone to test out the edges your MagnaCut takes I'd be happy to!
If you make Medium sized fixed blade knives, I'm dying to know how Magnacut performs as a moderate-duty chopper.
No pressure though, it's just nice to know my videos are reaching and blessing some actual knife-makers!
Like the vid overall but I have one little question. In the beginning you say toughness leads to edge stability but I always thought that it was hardness that prevented rolling.Did I misunderstand?
That’s an absolutely great question. There are a couple of main factors that contribute to edge stability, so far as I understand!
It seems like the main ones are hardness, toughness, and grain structure/type and size of carbides.
Hardness tends to make the edge not want to bend or deform or be worn away (but can lead to chipping) - toughness contributes to age stability by reducing the likelihood of chipping or fracturing, or said another way toughness increases the ability of the edge to flex or bend without breaking.
Grain structure dictates how large individual Crystaline sections of the steel are, and carbides play into that and are each their own hardness level and size. Together these 2 play into the toughness of the steel AND dictate how large chips or damaged portions of edge will be.
When I say that toughness is needed for edge stability, I mainly mean that A) toughness reduces the likelihood of the edge giving out by chipping and B) steels that have a higher level of toughness can afford to be brought to higher hardness (also increasing edge stability) without the worry that they will become too brittle.
Does that make sense? It was clear in my brain but I feel like it came out a little garbled.
Awesome! 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Cheers bro 👊🏻😆👍🏻
Did you see the test?
ruclips.net/video/T1w7IQD3vrQ/видео.html
I'm looking forward to dual grit tests of this steel :). RIP Petes hands xD
Haha, indeed. I hope to give him blisters, or teach him to wear gloves when I send him stuff haha!
Nice video, very explanatory for novices. I know the you tube channel "knive steel nerds" but I did not ask him when we will find the magna cut in big production by the biggest firms. Do you have any information ?
Hello, welcome to the channel - and thanks for the feedback. I am glad you found the video to be helpful, I aim to make knife and steel stuff easier to get into to inspire new people to gain an interest! Feel free to share with your friends if they are interested but don't understand the details!
In this video interview Larrin explains that Magnacut is somewhat back-ordered:
ruclips.net/video/Gua-8l4a_Mw/видео.html
It sounds like the first batch of MagnaCut was a smaller sample batch and sold out very quickly to smaller custom makers. I'd anticipate we will see it in a few large scale production knives when the big brands reveal their new models at SHOT Show 2022, but I think it will be very very widespread by SHOT Show 2023.
I need to do the thermal cycles myself, but I have a stash of CPM Magnacut for when I get equipped!
WHAAAAAAAT!?!?! Bro, congrats. I am pretty sure with the mood of the knife community right now, you could sell that stuff ounce for ounce at a greater price than sterling silver 🤣
Hey, if you work out your HT and are pleased and make a few blades - I actually do some pretty unique testing, and would love to test a loaner knife in MagnaCut, of course I'd resharpen it after, and send it back to you.
Keep me in mind, if you want. Otherwise, I'm glad the video resonated with you, take care.
Is there any sort of stardardized test (analogous to charpy) that measures the wear resistance of a steel in a direct, standardized way? I guess CATRA tests are kind of close, but even that is a test of blades, rather than of steel.
There are industrual abrasive resistance tests and standarts i think
Catra is the only one I am super familiar with, other than good ole' Pete over at Cedric & Ada.
I suppose CATRA is a test of blades, but if the blades are a standardized size, shape, geometry, and hardness, that ought to weed out most variables that would muddy the waters.
Have you seen Larrin's CATRA at knifesteelnerds.com, he does most of that.
knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/
Did you have a non-blade-related need for wear resistance? I'd be very interested to know what it is! Thanks for the comment.
@@homeslicesharpening i don't have any need for the information, but i would figure someone does
@@badger-6377 sure, it’s a fair question! Have a great day.
Am I losing my mind? Does this keep flicking into black and white
Not that I'm aware of, but please do let me know if it happens on multiple computers, and I'll check the editing and publishing for errors.
Cheers.
Whatever,,,,,,,,, just received a Bravo 1 LT rampless Magnacut" and its phucking sweeeeet.
Haha, congrats bro.
Heck yeah
STEEL bro. So fascinatingly satisfying. Hehehe...
If it ain't got horse shit carbon in it, a la medieval wootz, I ain't interested
Fair enough bro.
LAMINATES, LESS TO SHARPEN ;=)
I understand it's not too hard to sharpen, but laminates do make the job easier!!!
I'm into Magnacut for quite some time. My question is why all those prototype knives have chipping problem. It seem to be that CPM CruWear can't be beaten by Magnacut here
I have not seen tests where MagnaCut has chipping problems - could you find a link and send it to me here?
It does always seem that less Chrome in the steel solution does add some amount of edge stability that is hard to measure. I think that CruWear will always have a place, and I think it will be strong in different areas than MagnaCut. But I think that MagnaCut will be quite an improvement to most of the stainless steels we see now in production knives!
Gang shit
🤣 Word brah.
🤠👍
It's nothing compared to the skill you needed to jump a unicycle and flip a balisong at the same time - but thanks bro!
How about no chrome whatsoever, and simply blueing the steel, how tough and hard could you make it?
There are steels with no chrome, I think all of your 1095, 1075, 1055 steels are like that!
But steel is a wild animal, man - it rarely does what you think it should. For instance, they have found that up to a certain threshold, steel's hardness and toughness capacity actually improves with a bit of chrome. This is why you see KaBar using 1095 CroVan or many makers using 80CrV2. In both cases the carbon steel has trace amounts of chrome added, because somehow it makes the atomic structure cleaner and increases the toughness of the steel.
Anyway it's a delicate balance, 0 chrome is less tough, tons of chrome is less tough, but there is no perfect amount. Which is to say, the perfect amount depends on the purpose you want to use it for, and how much carbon you put in that it is bonding with.
Hopefully that makes sense - thanks for the comment!!!
PS Blueing would be interesting though. I understand it does harden the outer layer of the steel somewhat.
At 2:25 you say Larrin, I presume the name of an individual, as if everyone watching this video is already supposed to know who or what a Larrin in. If that was indeed the case, just wondering, what would be the purpose of the video? If everyone already knew exactly who or what you meant when you said that, why would they need to watch this video in the first place? Does that make sense? Kinda seems like the video is more about explaining something you're trying to learn about yourself so that you can absord and understand it better, rather than really a video designed to educate an audience from a place of expertise. It's cool. Just a bit odd.
Hey Jeff - welcome to the channel. I am sorry for the lack of context. I had assumed at the time that most of the people looking into MagnaCut steel were doing so because of the article written by its creator, Dr. Larrin Thomas - who runs the excellent website knifesteelnerds.com
Since that time the steel has exploded in popularity, and many folks know and own it without understanding its origins. My video also has grown in popularity slightly, as the steel becomes better known, and my oversight in not giving context in the video is more glaring.
If I could go back and edit it, I would, but RUclips allows no such thing. If I make further videos about MagnaCut I will take your advice into account. Thanks.
If you want to know more about how/why Larrin Thomas developed MagnaCut, his article is here:
knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/
My apologies that your comment was barred from the video initially. I found that RUclips had sorted into the spam comments, and I rescued it from there and published it. Cheers.