CPM-Magnacut Final Thoughts (Well balanced but is it the right balance for me?)
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- Опубликовано: 23 мар 2022
- Final Thoughts Overall: Probably the best overall stainless option. Some, myself included, may prefer S90V or M390 with good heat treatments.
Personally I don't see myself "switching over" to Magnacut. For me it doesn't sharpen well enough, have enough carbide volume, isn't run at high enough hardness compared to the non-stainless high-alloy options.
Larrin's Magnacut Article:
knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/2...
Meglio Knives:
www.meglioknives.com/producti...
Although hyped by the community, Magnacut seems to be exactly as advertised by Dr. Thomas. It's stainless, holds a decent edge, and is tough relative to other PM stainless steels. It fills the void of tough stainless steels with good edge retention, but still below M390, S90V, etc. I really like the Magncut I've used (some at 63 hrc), but I'm usually more concerned with toughness and durability than edge retention. Magnacut holds an edge much longer than say Nitro-V, LC200N, or AEB-L, is much tougher than M390, and hasn't corroded on my yet. I'm happy with it.
Just like you laid out, the toughness class Magancut competes in for stainless really shows how much of a leap forward it is against the Nitro-Vs and LC200Ns while still having incredibly high corrosion resistance.
Based on my experience with 4V, with high enough hardness I think it could move into a high enough edge retention category to be an alternative to the S90Vs/M390s for certain scenarios. Probably not for super abrasive materials though
I feel like Magnacut is *the* definitive "jack of all traits, master of none, but still better than dropping one" steel. I agree, this steel being tougher and more abrasion resistive than Nitro V/aeb-L/14c28n
I've watched all of Knife Steel Nerd's videos on this steel (he's the designer and he's a metallurgist & chemistry Ph.D)
Agree with all your points. I'm still a happy passenger on the Magnacut hype train because of the engineering progress that it represents, and because of its potential. But I'm also not in a hurry to buy a knife in Magnacut unless it's ground and heat treated to realize that potential. After reading all of Larrin's work, getting so-so Magnacut would be like ordering waigu beef at McDonalds.
I still say it’s really up there for stainless steels so it earned some of the hype for sure! All steel really is like that though. Heat treat is the heart and soul!
I agree, but Hogue definitely got that 63+ hard spot on the Deka, loving how slicey it stays, and the stropping experience is (as mentioned in the video) just very nice even at high hardness
The bad part is all knife makers think they know better than Larrin and will not follow his instruction, even the pure custom guys that you are paying for will not temper these things. I purchased a Dawson MC just to see but I know they temper low on the scale and the blade ends up like a V4...why use MC if that is the goal?
My experience with Magnacut (Hogue Deka): Quite stainless in nature. Tip was not prone to breaking off/chipping-even after being pounded into plywood. 24" length of double thick cardboard, I ran through cardboard until the knife was HOT, at least 6 cool down periods. 100 ft and it was still sharp. Shaved plywood against the grain for 4 feet. Still good, finally dulled it by running it across an axe head hard repeatedly for 30 sec (shiny edge, would not shave, or cut cloth easily). Restropped with #2000 sandpaper on a smooth counter by hand. Was shaving hair again in just over a minute. Very serviceable steel (IMO). Best/worst is always subjective, too many variables. No hype on this, but it's good (IMO). Think of this as a more rust-resistant Cruwear. If you like Cruwear, then you'll like this steel. My sample was not prone to chipping.
I use S30V as a standard (bar) for WORKING edge durability, I find ALL S***V(n) steels to be prone to being chippy, not to say I don't like them, just a characteristic fact. Same with M390/20CV/204P. For me, steels get interesting when they can get a high Rc and still roll, rather than chip. Magnacut tends to roll (in my sample). I think the engineer is right. A great "stainless" option-because it's technically not stainless, but makes a pretty good imitation of it ! For me: 👍👍
Not hearing great things about Hogue Deka in Magnacut... but glad you are finding it good. Did you have to sharpen away the factory edge or re-bevel it before it got good?
I have sharpened mine twice. Each edge better than the previous one. Ditched the plastic for aluminum too. It’s why my aluminum bugout is now my bothers. Still haven’t had a single chip. Strops up well, even with regular compound.
Justin idk if it's the engineer in u but u have a very unique and effective way of explaining yourself, nice video buddy!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!
Thanks for your frank thoughts sir! Much appreciated.
Appreciate the comment!
I think LC200n is a great underused steel. Not the best edge holding but tough, nearly rust proof, and sharpens super easy.
Agreed
14c28n 👌
Thank you for your perspective on Magnacut. It's nice to hear someone talk about it that isn't riding the hype train.
It's definitely an achievement and is a top tier stainless but I can't really leverage the toughness with these knives and the hardness isn't quite right on either for really outstanding performance their either. The Mule is a standout compared to most of the stainless I've experienced though
@@EngineersPerspective701 I think that's a fair assessment. A noticeable milestone in stainless technology, but not the end-all-be-all of knife steel.
It's unfortunate that knife production companies generally don't go into the level of hardness where Magnacut really outshines the state of the art.
It's like having a Ferrari with a governor set low. Sort of defeats the purpose of a Ferrari being a Ferrari, or Magnacut being Magnacut.
Agreed. I think there a lot that goes into it though. For a factory, large batch heat treat it may not be possible to get the grain size or RA volume low enough for the desired hardness. Speculation for sure
Yeah they're being conservative because the steel is new.
Thank you for this!
You’re welcome and thank you for watching!
Great Video! I just picked up the Montana Knife Co. Speedgoat in Magnacut. You helped me get clear as to what the real question is...
The "bite and performance" of non-stainless Vs stainless steel. The Speedgoat is just not going to cut as well as the knives in M4, K390, etc.
The use case for the Speedgoat, blade is skinning out deer, fishing, and hiking in the woods. On balance it will be a great knife for what I am going to do with it.
Thanks for the video. : )
Badass, I’m sure it’ll be a sweet performer!
Thank you for the thoughtful review. Currently, and for several years, M4 performs best "for me" in an EDC format. I may try K490 soon.
M4 is a super consistent performer for me as well. I consider it the official boundary of steels that I think are awesome, it being included of course. You won't regret K390, it's a whole level above M4
Hopefully we see more magnacut steel being produce, I missed the Ritter in magnacut. Everything you said tho I also agree with as well. ✌🏽
I hope it becomes as prevalent as S30V has been the last decade or so. S35VN wasn’t able to buck it but now there will be a choice many manufacturers have to make between Magnacut and S45Vn
Great video I think you raised some great points talking to those who have carried high hrc Magnacut they say it is a completely different beast and edge wise hits 4V levels and sharpening changes, I have only sharpened my Magnacut once and didn’t have the best experience, but I think that was due to a burnt edge. I’m currently waiting on some stuff from creely and BGM knives till I do a Magnacut carry and review. I hope Spyderco does 63+ for their Magnacut
Appreciate the comment! I really didn't want to get too much into discussing custom heat treats because we all acknowledge it'll be better but most aren't going to customs.
My Mule honestly took about 3-5 edges before I really felt it hit its stride. Lots of rolling in the first few.
I think 63+ is pretty unlikely because it's really on the upper end of what factory heat treats can produce and to get their they may be sacrificing other performance characteristics that a custom maker could work around/fix easier. As it is now I think it stands out against other options and most would be happier with it compared to quite a few stainless options.
But we can always hope for a sick 64HRc factory heat treat!
@@EngineersPerspective701 hope and pray
@@EngineersPerspective701 You probably know this by now, but Chris Reeve is doing 63-64.
@@NavinJ8 I didn't, thank you for letting me know!
Great perspective! Everything is indeed a compromise :)
Maybe I've missed it but have you experienced Spyderco's s90v? Thoughts as an EDC steel?
Always a compromise! Just depends on each person right!?
Unfortunately I haven’t tried Spyderco S90V. I’m patiently awaiting a Manix LW or Native 5 sprint/exclusive with S90V!
@@EngineersPerspective701 I have a Manix LW; it is an incredible tool!
@@joshuabriggs7114 I've heard and seen some testing on their S90V manixs. Seems like they really go all out on them specifically!
When you talked about tool steels vs stainless for sharpening and how they come up this is exactly why factory heat treats just can't compare to custom stuff. I know you are talking factory done steels but that's exactly why I've quit buying knives and just stuck with mostly tool steels and the stainless I found done well. I still keep meaning to get with you.
I pretty much stopped buying new factory stainless except for a bit here and there to try.
Really where I see myself getting into customs is kitchen knives because I use them everyday. I just don’t have the use case for most fixed blades anymore so it’s hard to justify those plus custom folders are rough. Maybe the best route is to get reblades?
Hit me up on my Instagram if you want to chat!
Appreciate what you do man!
Man I wish I knew how to sharpen/strop like you do....the detail you get into is like a foreign language to me, but it's beautiful!
Thanks man! Start sharpening, pay attention while you're doing it and you'll be there too!
What about other steels? Are there any you prefer over these for chef's knives?
My priorities are toughness and freedom from chipping, edge retention, and hardness. And a good level of stain and rust resistance (extreme stain and rust resistance not necessary, just a decent level).
I will be using a diamond stone to sharpen.
You just described magancut to a T man! Relative to kitchen knives it’s basically the best at all those categories. Probably would want to look for something in >63HRc range but I depends on the associated geometry and what you exactly are looking for.
Other options would be AEB-L or Nitro-V and you’ll want those as hard as you can get ‘em. Or LC200N but it’s too limited in hardness for real thin edges IMO.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Thank you!
The Hogue Deka in Magnacut is exactly as you described. Stainless, cuts well mainly due to thin blade geometry, not so great to sharpen.
I carried the Deka for a while and then reprofiled \ sharpened it to a 4,000 finish. I was disappointed with the cutting performance.
The second sharpening was 250, 650, finished on a 3-micron strop. The edge was a little better but not the "bite" you can get from M4, K390, Rex45, etc.
Conclusion: Magnacut is good for the kitchen, fishing knives, and any use requiring rust resistance.
PS: You saved me from sharpening the Deka for a 3rd time hoping for a better edge... Thank you! 😎👍
I will say I have enjoyed it a lot in the Leatherman Arc and the new Native 5 salt. It still is a medium edge retention stainless but I do like it above most others at this point for how damn well balanced and super solid edge stability
I'm torn on what blade steel to go with . I'm definitely leaning more towards CPM 3V or CPM CRUWEAR.
I want around 4" blade and I definitely want something that has awesome edge retention but also be durable . I'm going to pair this with Gransfors Outdoor Axe .
Any suggestions
What is the use case? Sounds like an outdoor woods craft blade that is not for chopping or batoning.
@@EngineersPerspective701 Yupp pretty much . More or less jack of all trades . Field dressing , and other normal knife tasks .
Just found your channel…
Pretty much everything you say here I find also rings true. I’ve been making knives for a little while now, and I notice a significant difference between production knives and the ones I heat treat. It’s surprising.
Totally! It's just impossible to accomplish what a maker can do with a huge batch of production knives. I think it's awesome how a detail that many overlook can effect the outcome of a blade. Makes good blades that much more special!
I bought two customs, and am hooked now.
I plan on carrying my Native 5 in MC all summer. Glad I picked the best steel on the market! Spyderco is one company I trust to give MC the best heat treatment.
I am looking forward to an MC manix when it finally is released
I’m excited for that one as well as the PM2 salt. or if we want to sound like crazy people a native chief lw salt.
@@nandayane I like where your head is at!
Have you sharpened 3v much? I’m wondering how much harder Magnacut is to sharpen than 3v. I would be using diamond stones and a leather strop.
My only experience with 3V was Benchmade's in their Puukko when they used to run it super soft at ~57HRc. I remember it moving really easy and taking a fine edge but it just wouldn't hold it enough for wood crafts and didn't like to take a sticky edge as easy as others like Cruwear.
So I have a knife with Nitro-V how does that compare to Magnacut?? more like CPM S35V? or better/worst?
In terms of what’s “better/worse” for you really depends. What are you using it for, the type of blade, geometry, heat treat?
At the end of the day, Magnacut is going to apply most broadly as a good choice.
I’d toss S35VN out and say Magnacut is better for lots of abrasive materials like rope, cardboard, medium to big game animals. Nitro-V would be nicer for a woods craft knife and potentially culinary tool depending on who you are.
@@EngineersPerspective701 thank you again!
From all the videos I've watched on Magnacut edge retention (including Cedric & Ada, Home Slice, and others), it sounds like Magnacut does amazing things with a coarse sharpening like 250 grit or dual-grit sharpening method (Home Slice style), with it being absolutely bonkers in dual-grit, doubled the life of the paper slicing edge (800 factory edge, 1500 dual grit edge). Those tests are with Spyderco Mules. Is it better than K390 for edge retention? Maybe not. Also, it sounds like most knife makers are being fairly conservative with their heat treat and stopping at 62-63 RC, but it sounds like there is more potential for this steel at 64-65. To your point though, even at Spyderco's RC 62 on the Mule it still chips on staples because of the edge geometry. I would like to see you add more Mules in your favorite steels to compare it to.
It definitely ha been putting up some impressive numbers. Still waiting for spyderco to drop their folders in it before I revisit it on EDC knives. It can hit 64-65HRc for sure but I think that's probably well above what factory knives will be able to achieve while maintaining a good microstructure for now. Maybe possible with some solid work refining heat treating processes.
As for mules, I don't like them as test beds. Of course the consistency of design is great but I can't easily work them into daily life so I always will prefer a folder or much smaller fixed blade for that.
So you rate knives as how they sharpen for you?
It’s a part of it for sure. Considering the sharpening is the largest performance factor most end users can influence, I’d say it’s a valid part of the equation
yeah my kizer swaggs swayback button lock KC exclusive in 4V is a laserbeam w a mirror edge
Geometry cuts!
Thanks for the testing and review. Love it when the hype train gets its brakes pulled. I’m sure it’s good but not paying the upcharge or fighting the lines for this steel. Gladly take a host of other steels on my fixed blades until the hype dies down.
For stainless steels that are pushing the limits of geometry (either ultra thin or for bush activities) and want good edge retention it’s probably the king.
But my preference still leans towards slightly harder and higher carbide options that are only available in high alloy non stainless still
New designer boutique knife steels are becoming a fad when they come out like people go wow, ah, cool I just have to have one like when a new iPhone come out every several months. And when the newest fad boutique steel come out people are going to say Magnacut what, oh that's the old steel. I want this new one.
Very possible. Magancut is the first truly new design in a decade or more. More of a leap than an iteration. Wether that’s enough to have staying power will probably come down to cost and popularity
I want that gyuto
Get one! The new ones are slightly convex grind which is a nice little upgrade
I am a CPM S90V “Hunting edge” fan… (Larrin likes it too)… MagnaCut is a lot tougher though (close to 3V for lateral toughness), sharpens easier, holds a 4V edge, & has way better corrosion resistance: Magnacut is my fav for a Bushcraft/survival blade (on Vancouver Island), being so well balanced, & forgiving. Sure, I still have my M2 Tool Steel “Bushcrafter”, even if it is a bit of a Fair Weather preference… AEB-L is for my fishing “dagger”
It's a hard sell to go away from the high carbide steels for processing game especially animals larger than a whitetail. The advantages of a S90V or better yet, 10V/K390 are so worth it IMO. I'm sure the stainless is pretty key for such a wet and salty air environment!
Meglio is spoken like saying " mèh ljo " 😁
Means " better " in Italian
It seems like you place a heavy emphasis on the sharpening experience. I thought the whole point of magnacut was it's tough and hard so you don't have to sharpen it all that much. If you want a nice sharpening experience get a knife made out of 1095, it'll take a great edge without a lot of effort. You'll probably have to sharpen it 4 times as often though.
Everyone has their own preferences for sure but you’re going the wrong way man. Most 1095 takes an edge like a soggy donut. K390 sharpens better than the mule’s magancut and holds it a lot longer.
I’d argue the point of Magancut is a stainless steel that is capable of taking thin, high performance edges. Or at least the versatility to do that while being appreciated by the masses as well. My feelings are that it accomplishes this goal but I don’t live in a vacuum. There is a whole host of non-stainless steels that do it better in all ways. Get to bake your cake and eat it too with them sort of situation.
My take away from this doesn’t have much to do with Magnacut. It’s that 95% of what makes a good knife for you is how it sharpens lol
A dull blade ain’t worth much. In the grand scheme of things, Magnacut doesn’t do a lot For a factory blade.
It’s well balanced but I personally do not need balance. I want K390, 10V, Maxamet, 15V, hard Rex45.
There’s tons of balanced steel out there so the question is, does this offer more than S45Vn, M390 etc? The answer is, not really. Talking to sharpening is trying to find a saving grace and when a knife needs a lot of sharpening then that becomes a key point.
Mangacut is tougher then those steals from what I have seen. Which is intriguing to me because I tend to like thin blades. In my home and on my waist. And if you came to my house I can show you 10 different chipped and broken blades. Also every other test I’ve seen the retention was phenomenal. There are very few but it looks promising. And I’m not judging your opinion I was really just kind of acknowledging how little the video I can relate to which left me kinda laughing at the end. Happy thanksgiving
@@Poise716 you really touched on the key point. Most makers and users won’t take advantage of the toughness offered. Not many are like yourself and utilize thin geometry while pushing them to the limit.
The testing does look good and I think a big part is how much Larrin has done for getting the word out on its heat treatment.
I will definitely be picking up a folder in it when I see one I want to round out my opinions but I’m unsure if it’ll change my perception too much
Enjoy the holiday
Magnutcut represents a bladeforums guy making it into the industry in a big way. I wish someone would make a balanced tool steel with like 6% vanadium.
I feel like a lot of the knife market is catered toward collectors who don’t want their investment rusting. I just see stainlessness as a waste of perfectly good toughness.
It's pretty crazy that Larrin was able to get Magnacut made but realistically it took years of research, articles, a book, building a following and an innovative steel design to achieve that. The way I see it, there is no reason to reduce the VC down from 8% because there isn't much more toughness or stability a knife user can really utilize IMO. It would only sacrifice edge retention without really seeing a practical increase in other performance categories I suspect.
I agree though. Most stainless is a waste of overall performance.
Noticed you haven't covered spy27 yet? Why? Lol.
I think it would be a very nice stainless and that there would be a good chance I would prefer it over others. However, I'm fairly confident that overall I personally won't really get a lot of enjoyment out of it based on it's combination of hardness, sharpening response, carbide type and volume.
This not saying it's bad or anything like that. This is coming from a guy that has no need for steels like Magnacut because they aren't what I am looking for in my use case
@@EngineersPerspective701 I know where you're coming from I also prefer high alloyed tool steel's over stainless especially for performance. I really enjoy m4, maxamet and 4v, unfortunately I never tried out 10v but I can imagine what it might be like based on the 4v experience. Now I've heard from some in the community that spy27 can be compared to s35vn but to me it would atleast seem to behave very differently in edge retention and overall cutting performance, granted that the difference in steel's are also on two very different knifes and are also from different manufacturers.
@@EngineersPerspective701 now I have nothing to base this off of other then brute instinct but I can't understand why the spy27 reminds me of the xhp in the spyderco chaparral.
@@jimmycricket7946 when comparing steel it really depends on what is important to a person. For a lot of people I bet the working edge retention of Spy27 could be reminiscent of S35VN which what most look at. But I’d have to imagine Spy27’s front end sharpness is way superior making it a better option for myself no doubt! They probably are equally easy to put an edge on and have a fine microstructure so I’d guess the resulting edge feels similar too.
In terms of XHP I’d be surprised if they felt similar other than maybe both taking a fine edge but I think a good hard XHP may be the better option if a person doesn’t care about stainless.
Interesting the bulk of your commentary is your choice of steel on how it sharpens rather than how it performs during use.
For sure. The reason for that is sharpening can really be a redeeming quality IMO. Magnacut doesn't do anything special enough to replace other options in my mind. If it performed as it does while also being a total gem to put an edge on then maybe it earns a spot in my heart.
Truthfully so much of any steels performance is just in the sharpening. You can double edge retention just with a superior edge. How easy and repeatable that is for a given steel matters then is my thinking.
I personally really enjoy and advocate for steels/heat treatments that lend themselves to users generating a multitude of high quality edges for their preferences and use case. Between different abrasives, polished vs coarse, etc.
@@EngineersPerspective701 good points. Try some AEB-L with a proper heat treat (around 63rc) I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's meets all the criteria you set out below for about 1/10 the cost of these super steels
@@AndrewLakey I really would love to get some. I almost pulled the trigger on a lower price custom a year or so ago. The maker had just moved away from the previous 61-62 target up to 63 and wasn’t giving me the warm fuzzies about how well he had perfected it yet. I guess thats what I get for the price point though
@@EngineersPerspective701 shoot me a message, I think we can work something out and send you a test mule
I feel this would be a completely different list if you did not sharpen your own knives
Maybe true but probably unlikely. The edge retention stuff lasts and performs the best regardless of who sharpens it.
Also sort of a silly hypothetical, it would be like saying a persons opinion of a vehicle would change if someone else pumped gas for them.
I USE A WORKSHARP, IT ALL GETS SHARP AND FAST
I LIKE THAT MY MAGNACUT DOES NOT RUST, ALL THESE OTHERS DO
SEMPER FI
GUNNY
They don’t do too bad when I keep ‘em clipped to my jock strap as long as it’s a lite day. Worksharp has its place
@@EngineersPerspective701 SILLY TO POST HERE,I SEE YOU'RE A YOUNG KID
SEMPER FI
GUNNY
**NO RETORT NEEDED ( LOOK THAT WORD UP)
I felt inspired from your other comments
Cheers
@@BOOSTEDLASER what a condescending post to make after you made a personal statement that most others would not agree to. How narrow minded 🙄🤦♂️
@@BOOSTEDLASER BTW have you ever tried punching the key "Caps" on your keyboard? I suspect not. Try it. It will blow your mind 😉
Magnacut is best for some large impact tool that you will need corrosion resistance for. All these guys wanting it in a EDC don't understand what they need.
I think the opposite! It’s at its best when it’s heat treated hard because it’s the only stainless steel with that carbide volume and can take super thin edges. Think SG2 but twice as good. Magancut just prefers diamond abrasives is the only “downside”
A big impact tool can be made out of anything and still survive. Might as well be 1095.
Toughness plays a part in cutting performance too, not just impacting things.
I've been messing around with it since I made my comment 8 months ago and I kinda wish I had not judged so harshly. I am very enamored with this stuff now. I understand thats what's available mass market isn't always going to be the best, but the potential of this stuff for a wide application of custom work is amazing. What I love about it is that it maintains such good hardness and edge stability even in the 63+ rc area, at that kind of hardness it's on par with aebl in toughness, but its got much better abrasion resistance. That's a huge home run for many uses. The only real downside of this stuff is the low machinability so you're gonna want, I'd say need, superabrasives to maintain it. And if you have to cross that rubicon into diamonds then for many lower toughness applications you might be better off with something else that has a difference balance. But I am very excited to see what kind of variants and tweaks they release on this steel in the future. Same idea with the way it does stainlessness, but adjusted with more or less toughness vs abrasion.
Truthfully I’m kind of in the same boat! I’ve carrying the Leatherman Arc with the Magnacut blade as my primary since it came out in October last year and actually really enjoyed it. And that’s with a what is likely a sub optimal heat treat and lower target hardness at 60-61HRc. It has just been a great utility blade! I haven’t had the time to fuss around with steels and sharpening as much so this has really been doing it for me.