I am just a beginner, and am older (67). I want to learn violin just for my own enjoyment, and have no illusions about how accomplished I can eventually become. If I can play easy versions of some classical pieces, I will consider it a triumph. I adopted the Russian bow hold because I have some arthritis in my fingers and cannot comfortably do the Franco-Belgian hold. It works much better for me. I watched your other video ('...bits and pieces...") where you discuss it in more depth, and it was really helpful.
My MAIN bow hold is like this - you don't have to only use ONE type all the time. It is very solid and precise, providing excellent control, but not TOO much flexibility, which is where the little inaccuracies start appearing. A similar thing happened with changing from lighter to slightly heavier electric guitar strings: Less very fine control means less very fine mistakes.
I started playing with the Franco Belgian hold, but switched to the Russian-Auer hold & I've never looked back. My tone improved drastically & especially control for dynamics. Its great for jazz( like you said) & that's pretty much what I play these days. Thanks for your wonderful ,informative videos. But like you said,its totally subjective. It might work for some players, & not for others.
I'm a beginner and trying to hold the bow in any of the "approved" methods has not quite worked for me. I decided to hold the bow in what actually feels comfortable to me. I'm not interested in how Perlman or Heifitz held the bow. My bow holding is a hybrid and it works for me. Find your comfort bow hold and press forward. Thank for your videos.
Just a heads up - this is the most extreme version of this hold that I've seen. Clearly it works for him, but it's not the norm. There's a lack of reliable information on this hold, but we have a clear description from Carl Flesch and a number of helpful photographs of exponents such as Milstein, Heifetz, Elman, Rosen, Haendel, Kavakos etc. In general, the bow is placed at or just above the second finger joint, and then the forearm is pronated till the little finger is almost fully extended. I'm not aware of any major classical player who placed the bow as far up as the first joint, as shown here. Something to bear in mind if you want to experiment with this classic technique.
I wonder if you have investigated Tossy Spivakovsky's bow hold? He places the stick even farther up the finger at the intersection of finger and palm! I have tried to figure out what he is doing from the one video on RUclips, some pictures, and the book published by Gaylord Yost, but it eludes me.
That's pretty much what Heifetz did as well. I've tried it and couldn't make it work. I think it requires exceptional touch. Precisely one great maestro in history has used it - which tells you something I guess. Extremes are rarely the right answer for the majority.
But I also see the pinky is applying pressure at the end of the bow when Christiaan holds it without the violin. So...when he places the bow on the string, the only holding points on the bow are the index and the thumb? The other 3 fingers do nothing but resting on the bow with no pressure applied?
Yes. With this hold you can essentially produce a great tone even if you are missing the ring and pinky fingers. Middle finger gives some stability but essentially all you need is thumb and index. I have a friend who actually lost his pinky and middle finger in an accident and still produces the same tone. It would be impossible to do with francobelgian hold
@@jaytorr6701 wow , thanks for the info . I noticed that the russian bow hold gives me a richer , fullier sound than the franco-belgian , even when it's placed at the tip Im still quiet intermediate , so I wanna ask you wether we can play fast passages with that hold , for example peganini caprice 5 , or flight of the bumblebee , or summer presto by vivaldi Cos I dont wanna regret it later !!
@@ayoubguesmi9531 search leonidas kavakos paganini 5. Probably best violinist currently, at 17 years old, using this hold. Actually helps play faster. Don't worry. You will be plenty fast.
@@jaytorr6701 thanks a lot 😘 I just checked him and he rocks , I'm gonna continue with that grip , hoping to become like those professional violinists (tho I feel guilty cos I didn't practise for 2 days in a row cz I was confused bout the bow grip 😅 ) Thx again 😊
So why was kavakos such a great virtuoso and then he was struggling so much later on to be even just about ok? Could it be that he could do the russian hold only when he was more young and vigorous but not so easily later on?
@@jaytorr6701 thank u 4 answering me. I had been afraid that he might have lost it, when i heard a particular later recording of him. But I'm very happy to hear that is not the case.
@@likeworldlikeworld2485 he is touring almost 260 per year playing with the best orchestras in the world. I would not trust a recording. You have to hear him live.
Very strange, I'm russian violinist, but I've never heard about this way of playing... My teachers learned me, that littlefinger shoud be always folded
It's really just a name that people came up with, it doesn't necessarily mean that every one in Russia played it that way , certainly not today. People have also referred to it as Auer bow hold, but it seems Auer was very flexible in his way of teaching bow holds. It's just a name, but players who do come from this school of thought would be Jascha Heifetz, Nathan Milstein, Leonidas Kavakos, Misch Elman, but it also seems that each had their own variation as well. I think terms become very blurry . Even the Franco-Belgian bow hold would have variations where someone would say that X or Y isn't really using Franco-Belgian. I suggest not to read to much into the name, but to just listen to the explanation.
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I am just a beginner, and am older (67). I want to learn violin just for my own enjoyment, and have no illusions about how accomplished I can eventually become. If I can play easy versions of some classical pieces, I will consider it a triumph. I adopted the Russian bow hold because I have some arthritis in my fingers and cannot comfortably do the Franco-Belgian hold. It works much better for me. I watched your other video ('...bits and pieces...") where you discuss it in more depth, and it was really helpful.
I'm also a "late" violin student, and the Russian hold is best for me...
My MAIN bow hold is like this - you don't have to only use ONE type all the time. It is very solid and precise, providing excellent control, but not TOO much flexibility, which is where the little inaccuracies start appearing. A similar thing happened with changing from lighter to slightly heavier electric guitar strings: Less very fine control means less very fine mistakes.
This is also the same bow hold that Heifitz used.
I started playing with the Franco Belgian hold, but switched to the Russian-Auer hold & I've never looked back. My tone improved drastically & especially control for dynamics. Its great for jazz( like you said) & that's pretty much what I play these days. Thanks for your wonderful ,informative videos. But like you said,its totally subjective. It might work for some players, & not for others.
I'm a beginner and trying to hold the bow in any of the "approved" methods has not quite worked for me. I decided to hold the bow in what actually feels comfortable to me. I'm not interested in how Perlman or Heifitz held the bow. My bow holding is a hybrid and it works for me. Find your comfort bow hold and press forward. Thank for your videos.
Kavakos plays Russian bow hold with straight thumb.
Just a heads up - this is the most extreme version of this hold that I've seen. Clearly it works for him, but it's not the norm.
There's a lack of reliable information on this hold, but we have a clear description from Carl Flesch and a number of helpful photographs of exponents such as Milstein, Heifetz, Elman, Rosen, Haendel, Kavakos etc.
In general, the bow is placed at or just above the second finger joint, and then the forearm is pronated till the little finger is almost fully extended. I'm not aware of any major classical player who placed the bow as far up as the first joint, as shown here.
Something to bear in mind if you want to experiment with this classic technique.
i swapped after watching this, i feel happier now :)
This bow hold method was taught when I was 5. Not able to switch to the “new” method after all these years:). Didn’t feel miss anything…
I wonder if you have investigated Tossy Spivakovsky's bow hold? He places the stick even farther up the finger at the intersection of finger and palm! I have tried to figure out what he is doing from the one video on RUclips, some pictures, and the book published by Gaylord Yost, but it eludes me.
That's pretty much what Heifetz did as well. I've tried it and couldn't make it work. I think it requires exceptional touch. Precisely one great maestro in history has used it - which tells you something I guess. Extremes are rarely the right answer for the majority.
But I also see the pinky is applying pressure at the end of the bow when Christiaan holds it without the violin. So...when he places the bow on the string, the only holding points on the bow are the index and the thumb? The other 3 fingers do nothing but resting on the bow with no pressure applied?
Yes. With this hold you can essentially produce a great tone even if you are missing the ring and pinky fingers. Middle finger gives some stability but essentially all you need is thumb and index. I have a friend who actually lost his pinky and middle finger in an accident and still produces the same tone. It would be impossible to do with francobelgian hold
@@jaytorr6701 wow , thanks for the info .
I noticed that the russian bow hold gives me a richer , fullier sound than the franco-belgian , even when it's placed at the tip
Im still quiet intermediate , so I wanna ask you wether we can play fast passages with that hold , for example peganini caprice 5 , or flight of the bumblebee , or summer presto by vivaldi
Cos I dont wanna regret it later !!
@@ayoubguesmi9531 search leonidas kavakos paganini 5. Probably best violinist currently, at 17 years old, using this hold. Actually helps play faster. Don't worry. You will be plenty fast.
@@jaytorr6701 thanks a lot 😘
I just checked him and he rocks , I'm gonna continue with that grip , hoping to become like those professional violinists (tho I feel guilty cos I didn't practise for 2 days in a row cz I was confused bout the bow grip 😅 )
Thx again 😊
What does it mean Polish, Hungarian and Jewish school / Bow Hold of violin technic ("wiolinistyka")?
I play so and I very like it
So why was kavakos such a great virtuoso and then he was struggling so much later on to be even just about ok?
Could it be that he could do the russian hold only when he was more young and vigorous but not so easily later on?
What do you mean kavakos is just about OK. He is still considered one if the top 5 of kit the best violinist in the world.
@@jaytorr6701 thank u 4 answering me. I had been afraid that he might have lost it, when i heard a particular later recording of him. But I'm very happy to hear that is not the case.
@@likeworldlikeworld2485 he is touring almost 260 per year playing with the best orchestras in the world. I would not trust a recording. You have to hear him live.
Do you keep your thumb bent or straight? I've been watching film of Heifetz playing and he seems to keep his thumb straight when he plays.
I remember that Heifetz keeps his thumb a little bent while playing, not straight.
I think he bent the thumb just a little bit... But sometimes i saw he kept it straight... And this is just like what i do with my bowhold btw😅
This hold fits my too short pinky. It does not have to be rounded and sitting on the bow.
Very strange, I'm russian violinist, but I've never heard about this way of playing... My teachers learned me, that littlefinger shoud be always folded
It's really just a name that people came up with, it doesn't necessarily mean that every one in Russia played it that way , certainly not today. People have also referred to it as Auer bow hold, but it seems Auer was very flexible in his way of teaching bow holds. It's just a name, but players who do come from this school of thought would be Jascha Heifetz, Nathan Milstein, Leonidas Kavakos, Misch Elman, but it also seems that each had their own variation as well. I think terms become very blurry . Even the Franco-Belgian bow hold would have variations where someone would say that X or Y isn't really using Franco-Belgian. I suggest not to read to much into the name, but to just listen to the explanation.
Heifetz played the Auer bowhold. He was a decent player cough cough.