I was just watching Fight Club and realized some older movies do have much more thoughtful use of surround and 3d content than some new 'action movies' - the quiet moments make best sound
Thank you, Patrick!!!! , for being the voice for so many of us when it comes to physical media. The movie industry shouldn't neglect the people who still prefer physical media over streaming services.
Some clarification to Apple TV 4K sound output (as also Patrick noticed in the video): By default the Apple TV 4K is using not the native streaming sound format as output signal, it converts everything into Linear Pulse Code Modulated Sound (LPCM). So e.g. 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus from the native source is converted into 7.1 LPCM. The AVR will display „multichannel PCM) in this case. In case of Dolby Atmos in a Dolby Digital Plus Container (and this is the only existing streaming Atmos format, not lossless Atmos in a TrueHD container) you have to activate „Dolby Atmos“ in the Apple TV 4K settings. Now the box converts the DD+ (Atmos) in a special sound format, so called „DOLBY MAT“. This is a special format on PCM base which can also cover Atmos meta data. The AVR will the display e.g. „Atmos /PCM“ as input signal. But Dolby MAT has no channel bed anymore. So no upmixer can be activated on it, because the upmixer needs the information from the base layer to calculate the new information for the upper layer. To get the upmixer (Auro-Matic, DTS Neural:X) you have to DEACTIVATE „Dolby Atmos“ in the settings to stop Dolby MAT output; you got back your 7.1 PCM output with the channel bed. You lost the Atmos meta data, but you are able to activate the upmixers again. Please note: Do not activate „Dolby Digital 5.1“ in the Apple settings! This causes a new encoding of Dolby Digital 5.1 after the decoding to PCM! For example native 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus will be converted to 7.1 LPCM in a first step and encoded again to Dolby Digital 5.1 in a second step. You will miss two channels, also the new encoded DD5.1 has nothing to do with the source coding anymore.
Right but usually when it’s streamed you have already lost the extra 2 channels for 7.1. So when streaming usually it is 5.1. With metadata for atmos. I don’t know if they’re just cut off, but I have read where it can be a separate mix in 5.1 from the OG (sometimes places like Netflix will request this, along with a stereo mix). Or potentially even the master studio only had…say 5.1.2 to make the Atmos mix. Otherwise yeah I get what you’re saying and should only be a pass though option on the apple TV
The best Atmos movie I have watched so far was The Lord Of The Rings and The Hobbit trilogies remixed by Peter Jackson himself available at iTunes Store.
There are definitely some differences in audio quality between disk and streaming, disk remains the best in most cases, in others I can’t really see or hear the difference. However I found greater differences with streaming devices between XBox, Apple TV and my Sony OLED TV, whereas XBox usually providing the best audio result, however in some cases the TV is better with some movies having a better image and audio quality. Interestingly in many cases the Apple TV provides the best and cleanest image but the sound is always inferior, seems more compressed.
Power Rangers was a reference Atmos soundtrack (plus reference picture). Every scene had voices moving through individual speakers with background noise at all times. Specific things happened with the height channels that were extremely accurate. Probably the most immersive sound I've heard in a movie. That's what I expected from Atmos but can't think of any others that are edited as well.
You should check on Quiet Place. There are few sounds that only play from 1 speaker. Many sounds come only from height channels. check between 45 to 65 mins
Hi Fomo, Thanks for the great content. Totally Awesome 👏🏽. I’m so glad you chatted about the wide Front. I have wide fronts too but I have NO content or idea on how I can get to experience them. Is there any other 4k Movies that actually have the 9.1.4 data . Please advise, Sir. Thank You. Plus, congrats 🎉 on the Trinnov 16 purchase. It must awesome. I have the Anthem AVM70 and it’s a super step up to my previous Processor. Thanks again and please continue with RUclips content. 👊🏽👊🏽😊👊🏽👊🏽
Dolby Atmos this Dolby Atmos that, people should be made aware for one to be able to experience Dolby Atmos when steaming, then one really needs to have a £1000 TV (LG OLED 2017 + or other OLED'S 2018 +) so if you haven't got a Dolby Atmos pass through TV.... the best your going to be able to receive would be Dolby d Plus! Don't worry so much because I've watched dozens of Dolby Atmos movies and IMO all I hear is a separate soundtrack being played on top of the original soundtrack impressive yes but I'm still yet to discover this so-called object-based audio! I actually prefer the AURO 3D and I haven't even got the VOG speaker lol
It’ just needs pass through. Not anything to do with cost, or type of tv (OLED). Atmos is audio not a viewing device. Either way Dolby digital plus is how atmos is delivered, just metadata on top of the audio. Same with TrueHD. There are different ways to deliver but the master reach should be from a truehd source
@@CrashCarson14 I'm just trying to make people aware! For anyone who wants to 'veiw' Dolby Atmos content when streaming (Netflix, prime, Apple TV etc) then one would realy need to fork out quite a considerable amount of money to experience Dolby Atmos and even then it's only a piggy bank version of Dolby d Plus! Nearly all of the Dolby Atmos passthrough TVs you will find are expensive OLED'S lost of wonga $$$
Well they could just get a streaming device. I have Nvidia Shield and does everything needed and more. You're right about Atmos though, as well as all other lossless audio tracks. They have a core 5.1 DTS or Dolby Digital track. Whether or not extra is added on to it or stuff is taken away, not exactly sure. Very likely they add on the object audio on to it. Enhancing the core and adding back in the extra sound that was initially recorded for the cinema. Depending on the budget for the bluray, it might sound great or pretty poor
Can you please tell me ...I am using Netflix for movies. Netflix wants me to pay 10 dollars more for Atmos and the standard (10.00 less) is 5.1 for the sound . Why cant I save about 10.00 a month if I use my Auro 3 D to upmix the 5.1 to Auro 3D ?.I do not care about 4k ...just sound. .Is this possible ?
I have mixed feelings about upmixing. I use it, but I also am torn because it seems like the same as using frame interpolation to make up "new" information that isn't there.
It’s not making “new” information like Interpolation does. It’s a mathematical formula where audio numbers are moved around. Sometimes it works sometimes it’s crap. Usually it’s quieter in the new used channels so it can’t do much anyways.
I think it's important to note that DTS:X is the only one that will truly use object-based content for all content correctly, especially in the bed layer where Atmos is completely not object-based at all. This allows any speaker configuration supported by the processor to work correctly and simulate however the content is mixed to that speaker configuration. I just wish there was more native content available. I like Auro 3D too, and at least it doesn't lie to the user about being object-based. I really wish I knew all of this before installing my speakers. I'd have tried to layout a Auro setup more closely than Atmos. Although luckily I'm habout halfway to Auro by sheer luck of what I could do in my room.
It’s not that Atmos isn’t object based it’s that Dolby is the standard format for Blu-ray and the production companies spend the majority of their budget on shooting and visual special effects and they don’t have a proper budget for sound. So they may only do a few scenes with a couple 3D Elements and slap an Atmos label on it.
@jalofanclub Yes, I agree the mix is the main problem. However, I'm finding bugs and issues with the Atmos tech as well, some of which is exclusive to their upmixer, but there are bugs in certain supported speaker setups as well. I'd say the implementation of Dolby is also inferior to DTS, but for the most part Atmos has the ability to be good, but the audio mix is the main problem. My opinion is the reason Atmos got the market share was because they spent all the money on marketing and not implementation and they gave the ability for the mixers to cheap out and skip object based data all together, which inspired adoption by producers to save money over DTS:X, which means the consumer gets half ass tech with half ass mixes.
There are plenty of movies with good atmos mix and plenty that are rubbish. Definitely reccomend Shane from sparechange with that 20k trinov that shows if there are object movements in the high channel
Hi I just want to ask for some advice on which TV to buy. Would it be better to buy a smaller 75inch qn90a which should have superior picture or should I buy a larger 85inch qn85a with not as good picture,I guess I'm asking would you recommend size over quality. My current tv is a 75inch q90t.
fantastic video and info. so so want to get my AVR system upgraded so I can enjoy Auro3D but sadly its going to be a LONG time until I can ;( Keep up the good work STF
ON A SAMSUNG Q950A SOUNDBAR IS TRUE HDMI 2.1 COVERED because John Lewis online shope said it only has HDMI 1.4 connections on the sound bar making 120HZs@4K frame rate, VRR, ALLM on an xbox & the Q950A incompatable pls do a video like normal & explain if its doable
hello this is very interesting information. i have viewed a few vids on Auro 3D ast few days. I do ave a question regarding speaker set up. From the pictures/images i have found/seen: for a 5.1 set up, you place the front heights over the top front L/R and the rears heights over the "side surrounds"...facing in towards MLP? my question is, if you have a 7 layer bed (L/C/R + sides +rears, where do the rear heights go? Over the L/R "rear' surrounds OR over the "side" surrounds aiming inwards towrds MLP? Pictures don't seem to clear that up... thank you in advance.
yes the hieghts need to go DIRECTLY above the Front L and R speakers at a 30 degrre angle facing the main listening position. Not too high not too low. If you want to maximize for Auro3D config. (per many other Auro videos Ive watched from Wilfred and Techno Dad and HiFi Daily podcasr).
NOTE: DTS Neural:X upmixes sound only at a minimum of mono sound (1.0). It also can upmix stereo (2.0 or 2.1), 5.1, or 7.1 content into an Atmos layout. Dolby Surround does the same thing but only at a minimum of stereo content (2.0 or 2.1).
Also the Dolby Atmos codex, ON BLU-RAY, only holds up to eight discreet channels. Usually for the max of a 7.1 output. So when you recommend a 5.2.4 set up for a 5.1.4 speaker setup, I don't think that you're able to truly get that discretion in the output from the format of Dolby. Not even through TrueHD. We need to start to see titles either streamed or on Blu-ray with Dolby AC-4, which can natively handle 7.1.4 channels and objects. The problem is that we are normally getting streamed AC-3 Dolby Digital+ or our Blu-rays are encoded in TrueHD which it's not getting the full channels of our setups or handling of objects well.
Atmos over TrueHD is just metadata over the bed channels for backwards compatibility. There can be a lot of metadata going on to place the sounds. Where did you get that info for AC-4? I tired looking around for info on it a few months ago and there isn’t much at all. All I can find is “more efficient”.
It would depend on the receiver if it can share out the LFE to two subs. Dont know why you would put an extra sub when you don't have one? Some lesser models just share it out, others can recognise where the sound is supposed to be and output it correctly, depending if your setup is done and it knows where the subs are. Upconverting to different speakers usually works pretty well with Neural X or Dolby Surround. Not sure what setup you have. There only a handful of discs that have 9.1. Might even be an 11.1 available too
@@monstalova the issues is not so much with the subs but the height channels. When you look at how the movies are encoded at 7.1, they don't truly include the height channels. They will do your two fronts, your center, you're surrounds, and your surround backs but not any front presence and rear presence. So a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 speaker recommendation doesn't fully get utilized unless the title specifically says Dolby Atmos. The Yamahas have a console output screen which shows you which of your channels are being utilized and I have some older Blu-ray titles that support 7.1 audio but will not utilize my height channels as configured because they're trying to do surround back channels.
Oh yeah that can have to do with processing power. Some receivers cannot do virtual height or height speakers, and run 7.1 with EQ and room correction. Sort of what the video is saying and how there can be something labeled Atmos but never actually use the height speakers. It can be done through DD+ and TrueHD it’s just not always utilized. It also depends on how the studio did the mix. If you look on the forums you can find how some movies are mixed in atmos but only on a 5.1.2 setup.
The "Turbine" releases from DAYLIGHT and DRAGON HEART consist of TWO discs each: One disc with the movie in Auro-3D and a second disc with the movie in Dolby Atmos.
The atmos mix on Daylight is good but there's some sounds which are a little off and tinny. Only a few times. I guess it is an independent mix so bound to happen. Overall pretty good though
I find the DTS:X movies just aren't as immersive as Dolby Atmos. There literally only a handful of DTS: X that seemed to have a good mix, also dialog doesn't seem as good too.
It’s ridiculous when all it comes down to is EFFORT. it’s just a lie to put things into a atmos container but poorly mixed. Ironically movies like Interstellar an Tenet have great tracks (minus dialogue) and are ONLY 5.1. Would much rather have a well mixed 5.1 track than a poor mixed 7.1 atmos.
It's the same with all movies, the dialogue is always too low when going through an AVR....nowadays with all the technology you think the sound mixers would get it right, I'm sick of having to reach for the remote control to turn it up and turn it down all the bloody time! What makes me even more mad, so far I've spent over £6,000 on my audio setup and the funny thing is, it was my integrated soundbar on my LG E8 OLED TV that sounded the most intelligible!
@@totalplonker824 Maybe buy a soundbar? I think my B&O Stage sound phenomenal, and it does Dolby Atmos quite well, I mean it's not really surround sound, but it does have a vertical element to it, and the voices are crystal clear, and the bass is loud and tight with excellent music reproduction. It's a simply alternative which is hassle-free.
@@alexanderulv3886 if you click on the red dragon (Dolby Atmos video) you can see it's probably too late for me especially considering I've already spent another £2500 since that video It doesn't really matter because it's my music that I'm more concerned about! But thankfully that starting to sound top notch
agreed but ultimately, streaming convenience is where things are going; remember the superiority of Betamax vs VHS? Ultimately, VHS just made it simpler and more convenient for video store owners and content creators and so it became the standard
Streaming = Dolby Digital+ (DD+) = up to 6.144 Mbps (lossy audio) Blu-ray = Dolby TrueHD (TrueHD) = up to 18 Mbps (lossless audio) Usually you'll hear the difference in volume, from my experience, on the same movie from being streamed to watching on a Blu-ray. There is a difference.
Yeah you’ll never get close to those maximum bitrates, usually it’s the opposite. For streaming it’s the bare minimum to be passable. Depending on the app…Netflix supposedly can give almost 700 mbits for audio. Amazon my be half that. True HD usually doesn’t go over 7 mbits and can hover around 2-3 (but it’s lossless so it doesn’t matter). Yeah the dynamic range is the difference really. All speakers can be on at full where in steaming it’s usually front and center heavy.
I'm using the denon x4700h. I'm wondering why everything I watch...even if its 5.1 or dolby digital plus ,all 9 speakers including height speakers are engaged. 🤔 no matter what I do the 4 height speakers are always on
It’s because the Dolby Surround Upmixer or the DTS Neural:X Upmixer is on by default. If you have a 5.1 setup, you can turn them off. If you have an Atmos setup, just leave them how it is. You can test how the upmixers are with 5.1 or 7.1 content and see which one is good for you. Some movies do sound better when using them, some movies already sound good in 5.1. From what I’ve heard, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is the most used when watching 5.1 content because it’s dynamic. DTS Neural:X Upmixer is less engaging with 5.1 or 7.1 content.
@@rindershow212 My Denon 4500 saves my settings for each kind of sound type (5.1, 2.0, etc). So once you have set you Denon to not using an upmixer for 5.1 sound , it should remember it for the next time...
@@TheRealSchnitti hmmm. Well I'm new to denon. I've been with pioneer for many many yrs. So I will have to find the settings. I dont even recall setting any upmixer.
@@rindershow212 Changing the upmixer or disable them isn't that difficult. You only have press the green button (a few times) on the remote to change the settings for movies. If you are playing music, you can press the red button to change the settings for music. But to be honest , I'm only using the movie settings, because I almost never listen to music. But you can test it, if you hear any differences between those two...
A good example scene with rain that works very well in my opinion is from Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom shortly before the title card at the beginning. Its probably the best DTS-X mix I heard so far
I've loved all the videos with Patrick: they've come at the perfect time as I'm building my room and learned so much, so thank you for bringing them to us. But what on earth happened to him for this one? He turned into a politician, and no matter how hard you tried, he just wouldn't give you a list of films with good Atmos.
You guys have it all wrong. In real life you are not hearing all sorts of sounds up above. Just because Atmos has the ability to play sounds up above, it doesn't mean you're suppose to hear sounds all the damn time. Atmos is being more accurate with height sounds compared to Auro3d. Shane from Sparechange was praising Atmos for having sounds of keyboards clicking coming from the ceiling speakers while people were typing in the movie Hunter Killer. That makes no damn sense. Has anyone ever heard sounds of keyboards coming from the damn ceiling? You guys just want sounds coming from above when it doesn't make sense to have sound. Give me the occasional height sounds over constant height sounds any day
I was just watching Fight Club and realized some older movies do have much more thoughtful use of surround and 3d content than some new 'action movies' - the quiet moments make best sound
Master and Commander is one of those. Sound amazing in DTS+Neural X
Thank you, Patrick!!!! , for being the voice for so many of us when it comes to physical media.
The movie industry shouldn't neglect the people who still prefer physical media over streaming services.
Personally, I like Godzilla vs Kong on physical media. Height channels seem active for the majority of the movie.
Wow - some amazing insider information!
I had no idea about all the nitty gritty of 3D upmixing. I really wanna try it now.
Thank you Fomo we need more men like you and Joe and tell
Mission Impossible Fallout is by far the best ATMOS ive heard. Shakes my house down like no other.
Some clarification to Apple TV 4K sound output (as also Patrick noticed in the video):
By default the Apple TV 4K is using not the native streaming sound format as output signal, it converts everything into Linear Pulse Code Modulated Sound (LPCM).
So e.g. 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus from the native source is converted into 7.1 LPCM. The AVR will display „multichannel PCM) in this case.
In case of Dolby Atmos in a Dolby Digital Plus Container (and this is the only existing streaming Atmos format, not lossless Atmos in a TrueHD container) you have to activate „Dolby Atmos“ in the Apple TV 4K settings. Now the box converts the DD+ (Atmos) in a special sound format, so called „DOLBY MAT“. This is a special format on PCM base which can also cover Atmos meta data. The AVR will the display e.g. „Atmos /PCM“ as input signal.
But Dolby MAT has no channel bed anymore. So no upmixer can be activated on it, because the upmixer needs the information from the base layer to calculate the new information for the upper layer. To get the upmixer (Auro-Matic, DTS Neural:X) you have to DEACTIVATE „Dolby Atmos“ in the settings to stop Dolby MAT output; you got back your 7.1 PCM output with the channel bed. You lost the Atmos meta data, but you are able to activate the upmixers again.
Please note:
Do not activate „Dolby Digital 5.1“ in the Apple settings! This causes a new encoding of Dolby Digital 5.1 after the decoding to PCM!
For example native 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus will be converted to 7.1 LPCM in a first step and encoded again to Dolby Digital 5.1 in a second step. You will miss two channels, also the new encoded DD5.1 has nothing to do with the source coding anymore.
Right but usually when it’s streamed you have already lost the extra 2 channels for 7.1. So when streaming usually it is 5.1. With metadata for atmos. I don’t know if they’re just cut off, but I have read where it can be a separate mix in 5.1 from the OG (sometimes places like Netflix will request this, along with a stereo mix). Or potentially even the master studio only had…say 5.1.2 to make the Atmos mix. Otherwise yeah I get what you’re saying and should only be a pass though option on the apple TV
Well said
Wow this is incredibly helpful at understanding what the Apple TV is going with these settings. Thank you!
No surprise about Prince. He was always ahead of his time.
Underwater Blu-ray is DTS-HD 7.1. I use the Neural X upmixer and that is one of my favorite soundmixes on my 7.3.4 setup.
U have 3 subwoofers?
@@jordanmillraney5481 Yes. 2 PSA S3000i subs and 1 PSA XS-30se.
@@jjchmiel78 Wow. Your room is gonna shake like there’s gonna be an earthquake.
The best Atmos movie I have watched so far was The Lord Of The Rings and The Hobbit trilogies remixed by Peter Jackson himself available at iTunes Store.
It figures its on the most boring trilogies of movies 🎥😴
There are definitely some differences in audio quality between disk and streaming, disk remains the best in most cases, in others I can’t really see or hear the difference. However I found greater differences with streaming devices between XBox, Apple TV and my Sony OLED TV, whereas XBox usually providing the best audio result, however in some cases the TV is better with some movies having a better image and audio quality. Interestingly in many cases the Apple TV provides the best and cleanest image but the sound is always inferior, seems more compressed.
Seems to be my experience with Apple 4K TV as well. Picture quality is always excellent, but audio through my AVR is always lacking
Power Rangers was a reference Atmos soundtrack (plus reference picture). Every scene had voices moving through individual speakers with background noise at all times. Specific things happened with the height channels that were extremely accurate. Probably the most immersive sound I've heard in a movie. That's what I expected from Atmos but can't think of any others that are edited as well.
I’ll have to get that one. I think black hawk down had a good track. Alita is good for the motor all scene. Saving private ryan isn’t bad either.
You should check on Quiet Place. There are few sounds that only play from 1 speaker. Many sounds come only from height channels. check between 45 to 65 mins
Godzilla vs Kong as well as A Quiet Place and A Quiet Place Part II all feature reference quality Dolby Atmos tracks.
Iam from germany and didnt hear from patrick before. That man has alot of knowledge. @Patrick Schöne Grüße
Turbine just released Twister with atmos, can’t wait to grab that!
The 4k blu ray atmos mix on power rangers is amazing the car chase car crash is amazing.
Neural x or Dolby surround? What’s the better upmixer
Hi Fomo,
Thanks for the great content. Totally Awesome 👏🏽. I’m so glad you chatted about the wide Front. I have wide fronts too but I have NO content or idea on how I can get to experience them. Is there any other 4k Movies that actually have the 9.1.4 data . Please advise, Sir. Thank You. Plus, congrats 🎉 on the Trinnov 16 purchase. It must awesome. I have the Anthem AVM70 and it’s a super step up to my previous Processor. Thanks again and please continue with RUclips content. 👊🏽👊🏽😊👊🏽👊🏽
Dolby Atmos this Dolby Atmos that, people should be made aware for one to be able to experience Dolby Atmos when steaming, then one really needs to have a £1000 TV (LG OLED 2017 + or other OLED'S 2018 +) so if you haven't got a Dolby Atmos pass through TV.... the best your going to be able to receive would be Dolby d Plus!
Don't worry so much because I've watched dozens of Dolby Atmos movies and IMO all I hear is a separate soundtrack being played on top of the original soundtrack impressive yes but I'm still yet to discover this so-called object-based audio!
I actually prefer the AURO 3D and I haven't even got the VOG speaker lol
It’ just needs pass through. Not anything to do with cost, or type of tv (OLED). Atmos is audio not a viewing device. Either way Dolby digital plus is how atmos is delivered, just metadata on top of the audio. Same with TrueHD. There are different ways to deliver but the master reach should be from a truehd source
@@CrashCarson14 I'm just trying to make people aware! For anyone who wants to 'veiw' Dolby Atmos content when streaming (Netflix, prime, Apple TV etc) then one would realy need to fork out quite a considerable amount of money to experience Dolby Atmos and even then it's only a piggy bank version of Dolby d Plus! Nearly all of the Dolby Atmos passthrough TVs you will find are expensive OLED'S lost of wonga $$$
Well they could just get a streaming device. I have Nvidia Shield and does everything needed and more. You're right about Atmos though, as well as all other lossless audio tracks. They have a core 5.1 DTS or Dolby Digital track. Whether or not extra is added on to it or stuff is taken away, not exactly sure. Very likely they add on the object audio on to it. Enhancing the core and adding back in the extra sound that was initially recorded for the cinema. Depending on the budget for the bluray, it might sound great or pretty poor
I'd like to order this by they are in German, I have no idea what I am ordering, and the money exchange is different
Can you please tell me ...I am using Netflix for movies. Netflix wants me to pay 10 dollars more for Atmos and the standard (10.00 less) is 5.1 for the sound . Why cant I save about 10.00 a month if I use my Auro 3 D to upmix the 5.1 to Auro 3D ?.I do not care about 4k ...just sound. .Is this possible ?
I have mixed feelings about upmixing. I use it, but I also am torn because it seems like the same as using frame interpolation to make up "new" information that isn't there.
It’s not making “new” information like Interpolation does. It’s a mathematical formula where audio numbers are moved around. Sometimes it works sometimes it’s crap. Usually it’s quieter in the new used channels so it can’t do much anyways.
@@CrashCarson14 exactly
Try Quiet Place,Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle and Pacufic Rim.⚡💣💥
Quiet Place and Jumanji are perfect demo for Atmos. Quiet Place 45:00 to 60:00
That John Williams bluray Is unavailable
the devil is in the details and this guy knows his stuff, great content
Great video like u talk about home theater not only tv that use I hope let's do more
I think it's important to note that DTS:X is the only one that will truly use object-based content for all content correctly, especially in the bed layer where Atmos is completely not object-based at all. This allows any speaker configuration supported by the processor to work correctly and simulate however the content is mixed to that speaker configuration. I just wish there was more native content available. I like Auro 3D too, and at least it doesn't lie to the user about being object-based.
I really wish I knew all of this before installing my speakers. I'd have tried to layout a Auro setup more closely than Atmos. Although luckily I'm habout halfway to Auro by sheer luck of what I could do in my room.
It’s not that Atmos isn’t object based it’s that Dolby is the standard format for Blu-ray and the production companies spend the majority of their budget on shooting and visual special effects and they don’t have a proper budget for sound. So they may only do a few scenes with a couple 3D Elements and slap an Atmos label on it.
@jalofanclub Yes, I agree the mix is the main problem. However, I'm finding bugs and issues with the Atmos tech as well, some of which is exclusive to their upmixer, but there are bugs in certain supported speaker setups as well. I'd say the implementation of Dolby is also inferior to DTS, but for the most part Atmos has the ability to be good, but the audio mix is the main problem.
My opinion is the reason Atmos got the market share was because they spent all the money on marketing and not implementation and they gave the ability for the mixers to cheap out and skip object based data all together, which inspired adoption by producers to save money over DTS:X, which means the consumer gets half ass tech with half ass mixes.
There are plenty of movies with good atmos mix and plenty that are rubbish. Definitely reccomend Shane from sparechange with that 20k trinov that shows if there are object movements in the high channel
Hi I just want to ask for some advice on which TV to buy.
Would it be better to buy a smaller 75inch qn90a which should have superior picture or should I buy a larger 85inch qn85a with not as good picture,I guess I'm asking would you recommend size over quality.
My current tv is a 75inch q90t.
Depends on how far away you are for one.
fantastic video and info. so so want to get my AVR system upgraded so I can enjoy Auro3D but sadly its going to be a LONG time until I can ;( Keep up the good work STF
Did Auro3D go bankrupt? Is it gone for good?
ON A SAMSUNG Q950A SOUNDBAR IS TRUE HDMI 2.1 COVERED because John Lewis online shope said it only has HDMI 1.4 connections on the sound bar making 120HZs@4K frame rate,
VRR, ALLM on an xbox & the Q950A incompatable pls do a video like normal & explain if its doable
Wha? Your comment is completely irrelevant to this video content.
hello
this is very interesting information. i have viewed a few vids on Auro 3D ast few days. I do ave a question regarding speaker set up. From the pictures/images i have found/seen: for a 5.1 set up, you place the front heights over the top front L/R and the rears heights over the "side surrounds"...facing in towards MLP? my question is, if you have a 7 layer bed (L/C/R + sides +rears, where do the rear heights go? Over the L/R "rear' surrounds OR over the "side" surrounds aiming inwards towrds MLP? Pictures don't seem to clear that up...
thank you in advance.
yes the hieghts need to go DIRECTLY above the Front L and R speakers at a 30 degrre angle facing the main listening position. Not too high not too low. If you want to maximize for Auro3D config. (per many other Auro videos Ive watched from Wilfred and Techno Dad and HiFi Daily podcasr).
Red tails,is good. only got chance to watch little, but felt good though its old movie
George Lucas is a big fan of auro3d. So this was the first Hollywood Movie with auro3d.
I'd love to know how the upmixers work, especially like from a mono source.
NOTE: DTS Neural:X upmixes sound only at a minimum of mono sound (1.0). It also can upmix stereo (2.0 or 2.1), 5.1, or 7.1 content into an Atmos layout. Dolby Surround does the same thing but only at a minimum of stereo content (2.0 or 2.1).
Also the Dolby Atmos codex, ON BLU-RAY, only holds up to eight discreet channels. Usually for the max of a 7.1 output. So when you recommend a 5.2.4 set up for a 5.1.4 speaker setup, I don't think that you're able to truly get that discretion in the output from the format of Dolby. Not even through TrueHD.
We need to start to see titles either streamed or on Blu-ray with Dolby AC-4, which can natively handle 7.1.4 channels and objects. The problem is that we are normally getting streamed AC-3 Dolby Digital+ or our Blu-rays are encoded in TrueHD which it's not getting the full channels of our setups or handling of objects well.
Atmos over TrueHD is just metadata over the bed channels for backwards compatibility. There can be a lot of metadata going on to place the sounds. Where did you get that info for AC-4? I tired looking around for info on it a few months ago and there isn’t much at all. All I can find is “more efficient”.
It would depend on the receiver if it can share out the LFE to two subs. Dont know why you would put an extra sub when you don't have one? Some lesser models just share it out, others can recognise where the sound is supposed to be and output it correctly, depending if your setup is done and it knows where the subs are. Upconverting to different speakers usually works pretty well with Neural X or Dolby Surround. Not sure what setup you have. There only a handful of discs that have 9.1. Might even be an 11.1 available too
@@monstalova the issues is not so much with the subs but the height channels. When you look at how the movies are encoded at 7.1, they don't truly include the height channels. They will do your two fronts, your center, you're surrounds, and your surround backs but not any front presence and rear presence. So a 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 speaker recommendation doesn't fully get utilized unless the title specifically says Dolby Atmos. The Yamahas have a console output screen which shows you which of your channels are being utilized and I have some older Blu-ray titles that support 7.1 audio but will not utilize my height channels as configured because they're trying to do surround back channels.
Oh yeah that can have to do with processing power. Some receivers cannot do virtual height or height speakers, and run 7.1 with EQ and room correction. Sort of what the video is saying and how there can be something labeled Atmos but never actually use the height speakers. It can be done through DD+ and TrueHD it’s just not always utilized. It also depends on how the studio did the mix. If you look on the forums you can find how some movies are mixed in atmos but only on a 5.1.2 setup.
thanks for the info on daylight and dragonheart, no idea they did atmos versions.
The "Turbine" releases from DAYLIGHT and DRAGON HEART consist of TWO discs each:
One disc with the movie in Auro-3D and a second disc with the movie in Dolby Atmos.
The atmos mix on Daylight is good but there's some sounds which are a little off and tinny. Only a few times. I guess it is an independent mix so bound to happen. Overall pretty good though
I find the DTS:X movies just aren't as immersive as Dolby Atmos. There literally only a handful of DTS: X that seemed to have a good mix, also dialog doesn't seem as good too.
Same. DTS:X tracks also seem to be less dynamic and powerful than Dolby Atmos tracks.
It’s ridiculous when all it comes down to is EFFORT. it’s just a lie to put things into a atmos container but poorly mixed. Ironically movies like Interstellar an Tenet have great tracks (minus dialogue) and are ONLY 5.1. Would much rather have a well mixed 5.1 track than a poor mixed 7.1 atmos.
I have yamaha V6A
atmos-dts-x still have weak sound،
specially for dialogue
How can I improve it.
Tune setup or buy better center speaker?
acoustically treat the ceiling and floor (carpet). Enable Dialoge Enhancer. Increase Center speker volume
It's the same with all movies, the dialogue is always too low when going through an AVR....nowadays with all the technology you think the sound mixers would get it right, I'm sick of having to reach for the remote control to turn it up and turn it down all the bloody time! What makes me even more mad, so far I've spent over £6,000 on my audio setup and the funny thing is, it was my integrated soundbar on my LG E8 OLED TV that sounded the most intelligible!
@@totalplonker824 Maybe buy a soundbar? I think my B&O Stage sound phenomenal, and it does Dolby Atmos quite well, I mean it's not really surround sound, but it does have a vertical element to it, and the voices are crystal clear, and the bass is loud and tight with excellent music reproduction. It's a simply alternative which is hassle-free.
@@alexanderulv3886 if you click on the red dragon (Dolby Atmos video) you can see it's probably too late for me especially considering I've already spent another £2500 since that video
It doesn't really matter because it's my music that I'm more concerned about! But thankfully that starting to sound top notch
streaming on netflix and amazon prime is not quite the same as having the disk
agreed but ultimately, streaming convenience is where things are going; remember the superiority of Betamax vs VHS? Ultimately, VHS just made it simpler and more convenient for video store owners and content creators and so it became the standard
Streaming = Dolby Digital+ (DD+) = up to 6.144 Mbps (lossy audio)
Blu-ray = Dolby TrueHD (TrueHD) = up to 18 Mbps (lossless audio)
Usually you'll hear the difference in volume, from my experience, on the same movie from being streamed to watching on a Blu-ray. There is a difference.
Yeah you’ll never get close to those maximum bitrates, usually it’s the opposite. For streaming it’s the bare minimum to be passable. Depending on the app…Netflix supposedly can give almost 700 mbits for audio. Amazon my be half that. True HD usually doesn’t go over 7 mbits and can hover around 2-3 (but it’s lossless so it doesn’t matter). Yeah the dynamic range is the difference really. All speakers can be on at full where in steaming it’s usually front and center heavy.
I'm using the denon x4700h. I'm wondering why everything I watch...even if its 5.1 or dolby digital plus ,all 9 speakers including height speakers are engaged. 🤔 no matter what I do the 4 height speakers are always on
It’s because the Dolby Surround Upmixer or the DTS Neural:X Upmixer is on by default. If you have a 5.1 setup, you can turn them off. If you have an Atmos setup, just leave them how it is. You can test how the upmixers are with 5.1 or 7.1 content and see which one is good for you. Some movies do sound better when using them, some movies already sound good in 5.1. From what I’ve heard, the Dolby Surround Upmixer is the most used when watching 5.1 content because it’s dynamic. DTS Neural:X Upmixer is less engaging with 5.1 or 7.1 content.
@@jordanmillraney5481 hmm.. makes sense. I just wished it wasn't on by default.
@@rindershow212 My Denon 4500 saves my settings for each kind of sound type (5.1, 2.0, etc). So once you have set you Denon to not using an upmixer for 5.1 sound , it should remember it for the next time...
@@TheRealSchnitti hmmm. Well I'm new to denon. I've been with pioneer for many many yrs. So I will have to find the settings. I dont even recall setting any upmixer.
@@rindershow212 Changing the upmixer or disable them isn't that difficult. You only have press the green button (a few times) on the remote to change the settings for movies. If you are playing music, you can press the red button to change the settings for music. But to be honest , I'm only using the movie settings, because I almost never listen to music. But you can test it, if you hear any differences between those two...
For example, the rain dont make any sound untill it hits the ground, so rain sound should not come from the atmos channels!
what about rain hitting trees, roofs etc? Also there is echo from Walls etc
@@annonym8990 Thats the Point. ;-)
A good example scene with rain that works very well in my opinion is from Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom shortly before the title card at the beginning. Its probably the best DTS-X mix I heard so far
and the rain hits the umbrella should make sound above…
Damn 9.1.4 atmos
I've loved all the videos with Patrick: they've come at the perfect time as I'm building my room and learned so much, so thank you for bringing them to us.
But what on earth happened to him for this one? He turned into a politician, and no matter how hard you tried, he just wouldn't give you a list of films with good Atmos.
Don't need Auro 3D, DTS X and Dolby Atmos, and cheap Yamaha decoder can do it better !
all personal preference right?
No thats a fact. That emersive bubble and god AV dekoder can do, nothing new there.
@@stopthefomo
You guys have it all wrong. In real life you are not hearing all sorts of sounds up above. Just because Atmos has the ability to play sounds up above, it doesn't mean you're suppose to hear sounds all the damn time. Atmos is being more accurate with height sounds compared to Auro3d. Shane from Sparechange was praising Atmos for having sounds of keyboards clicking coming from the ceiling speakers while people were typing in the movie Hunter Killer. That makes no damn sense. Has anyone ever heard sounds of keyboards coming from the damn ceiling? You guys just want sounds coming from above when it doesn't make sense to have sound. Give me the occasional height sounds over constant height sounds any day
EXACTLY RIGHT!
2% people on this planet cares for German and auro