Don't Waste Your Love on the Narcissist (Conference Presentation)
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- Опубликовано: 6 дек 2023
- Narcissist cannot love - but he also does not let himself be loved. His bad object feels threatened and resists it.
Love always ends in heartbreak, pain, hurt and abandonment.
Paranoid ideation and projection: love offered is not real (a fantasy) or it is fake and manipulative. It needs to be tested and probed all the time.
Love is for commoners, not for the exceptionally superior.
Love is dependency and neediness: dependency is risk and neediness is mortifying. It challenges the narcissist’s self-sufficiency (I don’t need you, see if I care).
Love is vulnerability and therefore dangerous and weak. It demands micromanaged and coercive control to avoid a devastating loss.
Love requires adult skills and sets the narcissist - the perennial abused child - up for failure.
Love requires emotional maturity, a secure attachment style, and a grounded center. The narcissist is an addict with none of the above: his only relationship is with his drug, the fantasy sustained by a constant influx of narcissistic supply.
Love requires the recognition of the Other. Narcissists are incapable of othering and feel threatened by the partner’s personal autonomy and agency, an external object gone amok and which threatens the inertly perfect universe of their internal objects.
Narcissists blindly devour and consume. They are mimicking parasites suspended in a sempiternal symbiotic fantasy, frenzily feeding off their successive hosts.
They push away and resist any attempt to love them. Their approach is acquisitive, their avoidance preordained by their need to reenact the unresolved conflict with a dead mother. They are automata, programmed with their own shame-driven compulsion, dummies to a self-conjured ventriloquist, the False Self. A seeking homing in algorithm gone awry.
Video presentation at the Addiction World Conference, San Francisco, September 2024
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Some so called empaths believe they can cure narcissts with love and empathy. But this is in my opion a big misunderstanding. Only the narcisst himself can change himself if he wants to. But normaly no narcisst sees a reason to change anything because he views himself as perfect.
No one gets deeper into what's really going on in people's minds than Sam Vaknin.
A narcisst I knew reacted exactly this way. If anyone showed him sympathy or even love he pushed them away. But if someone criticed him or acted cold toward him he treated them nice and respectful.
So he’s adapted his Mother’s narcissism and lives in her fake world with her. It’s the saddest life. Tragic.
What a curse child abuse is, the burden of the void inside plus internalised hatred, doomed to a world barren of relationships. Maybe this is a reason narcissists are successful in their fields, what else is there for them?
I understand what you say. It is such a shame.
small wonder why NOTHING you do works for the narcissist. there is always, ALWAYS, something wrong ... with you, what you think, what you do or not do, everything. Yet, we keep trying without ever realizing it was futile, from the start.
thanks. doc.
You are very right. I think that, in the eyes of a narcissist, the ideal state for a partner, child, subordinate, etc., is a kind of worried and apologetic mind-set, with the person scrambling to make amends and not disappoint or anger the narc further. This results in a pleasant focus on meeting the narcs needs, and takes the spotlight off of the narcs own disgusting sins and cruelty. So you can never really please the narc or meet their standards. He doesn't want to be pleased and will always move the goal-posts or start an argument if you actually approach perfection.
This blocking, unblocking, hot and cold, punishment is really heartbreaking. It has taken a toll on me. He doesn’t care even. I wish I knew how to forget him. I can’t be cruel to him like he’s to me.
I told him I loved him he said thank you 😂😂😂
I think this is one of the most concise videos to sum up a narcissist.
it's absolutely mind-blowing yes i wish they would watch this
Do not waste your love! Amen!
Probably one of his best videos. It really explains the condition.
In my experience, loving a covert narcissist was a self imposed, emotional and mental Sisyphus condition. I was never allowed to have a completion, fulfillment, nor validation of my love for her, nor of her love for me. I was always "this close" to it, when she conjured up some impropriety on my part that put our relationship back to the bottom of the mountain-
This caused a redoubling of my efforts to successfully push the emotional boulder to the top of Mount Love. Two needles on the same album stuck in rhe same record groove replaying repetitive compulsive behaviors, ad nauseum. I have a lot of self work ahead of me to understand and remedy my emotional, mental and cognitive deficiencies that leave me partly responsible and culpable for this relationship.
I have recently left the howling wind in the labyrinth of mirrors, and have kissed goodbye the dark emptiness that seperated her from me. Thank you Sam, for all the knowledgeable information you provide on this Disorder, and for all the
light you shed on myriad other topics. So greatly appreciated!
The narcissist is the greatest victim. This video humanizes him and show how sorryful his life is.
It's tragedy for a child to become a narcissist - very sad that the child could not get love and is so afraid that he cannot get real connection in later life. On the other hand it's also a tragedy for the person that dates the narcissist. I think there should be more education about love and parenting, and how early years and being loved are so important for psyche and child development.
Can't stop crying 😢😢😢mich love from Germany ❤
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´......on my terms and conditions only.....` so true.
`......love requires adult skills.....` indeed.
This is stunning commentary because its exactly what I have believed all along and often said to friends and him: He won't LET me love him. Him not loving ME was painful. . .him not letting me love HIM, is excruciating. Yes, its way worse, Vaknin. Its profoundly frustrating. He still drives by my home in the early mornings though. I catch him from time to time. 😢
I was with one for 2 years as a teen and he abandoned me to another country out of the blue. Then tried to get me back over 20 years several times. When he did succeed and come back to my own country he was different, he had different expectations, tested me, distrusted me, and I reacted badly going into my own psychotic break. It resulted in reactive abuse and I sought revenge. Yet he asked "why are you like this with me and no one else?". It was because I could be me with everyone else and even when he left as a teen, but his other divorces afterwards he distrusted and had the same expectations on me since they used him and manipulated him. Now I know. I am me again after I sent him back. Now I am the abuser in his mind, the one that couldn't be trusted after he said he trusted me. I know now the BS. I wasn't them. I was me but couldn't be. Thank you for explaining this. It all makes sense.
Thanks I needed to hear that because I almost was willing to do anything for her yet again. 😂
I am always forgetting to give up hope.
Your last sentence is painful but also one I'm going through at the moment so I get it.
Turn that hope inward towards YOUR bright future with someone who will reciprocate what you bring or one of solitude without the cruelty of being strung along. Protect your peace of mind and heart.
You are not the only one.
This hope piece is hard bc Star Wars always teaches us that good wins
That's so funny! I'm going to remember not to forget to give up hope! That cheers me up a lot 😂 I like that! 😁
The last time I told her "I love you," her response was, "I'm glad you think so." (This was in the context of sharing deeply in a caring manner in couple's therapy). Sad to see how applicable the wisdom in this video are...
"My" narc. had emphasized to me the "privilege" I had of being among the very few (5, he said) women who passed through his life that he "ALLOWED" to hold HIM (meaning that HE MADE THEM FELL the need of doing it )in their arms for a while, after sex . And that meant A LOT to him, he said. Usually, he said,(the rest, that were many) HE was keeping them in his arms, in order "to get rid of them quickly"(!)
Needless to say, I felt quite shocked by this little confession of his.
Then I asked him which number among the "lucky ones" I was, in chronological order. She answered "the third". All I could find to answer was that 3, has always been my lucky number. 🙂 However, this seemingly small shock, shook me so instantly, that I finally severed my Gordian emotional bond with him. A huge relief after all, because he proved (beyond any doubt) who he was. Thank you Dr Vaknin, once again. You're absolutely right.
No more "betting on lame horses".
Once again you explain the essential and fundamental difference between the mind of a narcissist and the mind of a non-narcissist. It is so important to keep this difference in top of mind.
This was the most helpful video I have seen explaining so much that I have witnessed and been through with a narcissist. Detected child like behavior that puzzled me. Everything you mentioned I experienced. Now I really understand why my Love was rejected, why they told me they hated intimacy, the ghosting, the rages, seems like they were always running from something, chasing Happiness that they never could find and trying to Love them was a waste of my time. Thank you
God this explains so much.Whenever the narcissist showed any emotion,he had to follow it up either with triangulation or devaluation of some sort.I could not understand why he was so afraid to show his vulnerable side.This video explained it all.Thank you ,Professor
It's a self fulfilling prophecy
It's so depressing for them! At least we can heal from this abuse and have the real authentic capacity to LOVE someone.
Wow! That explains my marriage & divorce. Wow. From the beginning my spider senses were tingling about her relationship with her mother. Who knew it would take 20 years for Professor Vaknin to clear this up for me. Thank you 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🙏🏾
OMG when we were first married my ex did not want to hold hands or put his arm around me. Finally an explanation. I did not realize it was a red flag.
Quite an amazing observation Dr. Sam.
When I told mine I loved her she answered "really?" But her description of having been in love before threw me off - I entered the "relationship" carrying the premise that she was normal, in that she was capable of love.... which was all just camouflage.
Love 💣
I got the same response. Then the fake I love you followed.
I entered the relationship with the premise that she was normal.....gotcha!
Oh noes, I am becoming a narcissist? After almost a half century on this planet, I have come to rhe conclusion that love is a stupid game or doesn't exist. And I am finally happy and free in that knowledge
Hello, to my favorite lecturer on RUclips! I believe what you say about them being uncomfortable with being loved....or even liked. I had seen this person twice, and I gave him a hug when he was leaving my place. He said, "I don't know about you, I feel like you might love me or something,." I asked him how can I love him when I had only seen him twice. He said, "I don't know, but it seems like you love me." I am not sure if he didn't know what love really is, or if he was just using the word to mean "like." Another time, we were talking, and somehow having some affection for him came up. He said, "Don't have too much affection for me, I'm not like that." I said to see him, and have him at my home, and to be intimate with him, of course, I have some affection for him. I said you have been at my place many times, you like me to some extent then, right? :::crickets::: As I always say, NO RESPONSE IS A RESPONSE.
Very strange interactions with him. Never really could figure him out. Some of the things he would just blurt out were unfounded and perplexing. His emotional depth seemed shallow if that makes sense.
Sounds more like ASD
Your description of conquering love in order to survive without it is beautiful. That love is that powerful and complex both breaks my heart and reminds me of loves joy.
Narcissism = Fear . I keep coming back to listen to your lectures Prof Vaknin because I simply like your voice 🫶🏼. Thank You for your work .
Listening to this makes me so grateful I had such a loving mother. I know my narc ex husband's mom was like ICE! But she coddled him and he was the "golden boy" so I am not sure what that means when his mother is still doing his laundry at 45 years old. I think it's like we see how love can heal, they see it as negative. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I never understood why they keep wanting to be in relationships that they literally know they will sabotage. They should seriously go into a mental hospital and stay away from decent human beings.
👍👍👍👍
They conciously enter into relationships seeking supply (positive attention), but subconciously in order to play out the mother-child separation drama that they were never able to do with their real mothers. Hence the abusive devaluing and discard phase.
@@pelqel9893you described it well. Mine would block me on every app for days without caring about my feelings.
@@josephsworldoftaekwondo5059 great relationship with my own mother. No relationship with my father, who cheated on my mother (his wife)... So, I believe my own father was a narcissist, and had very little to do with me and my sister growing up. That was probably a big part of it!
I tend to look past their crimes and see the damage done to them as children and THAT'S what angers me most. Even through rage, I just see damaged children. But in order to survive, I have to shut this down and deal with the adult in front of me.
I did the same thing wanting to see the child, nurture the and that dang Chucky child hurt me so badly 😂😂😂
@faithing88 Oh no doubt! I gotta toughen up and realize it's him or me.
It's pretty obvious to me it was a me or him thing after a while
@LeahDyson-kq4bd Yeah Leah, after the things this one's said to me lately, I'm there. Blocked. 😮💨😒
Dear Professor, can you make a video about the narcissist's relationship with his mother as an adult? For example, my narcissistic ex has done everything you've said, but when he discarded me, his mother was there to enable him and literally take him home with her. So it seems like this inability to separate as you describe is mental, but also physical. And it also seems like the Dead Mother is not a set of behaviors in early childhood, but a lifelong relationship. I'm very curious about how it develops after age 2-3, where you often focus. Thank you again for your brilliant work.
Emotional incest….please research this.
Thank you so much for this great and sad explanation. Because only the truth sets you free.
"there's no such thing as love, there's only some proofs" i heard this so many times ...
"I don't need you, go away, see if I care, be with someone else, I don't give a damn..."
And then it's on to the next one to drain the life out of. It's an irony when the narcissist is so dependent on external validation.
This is the exact dynamic in my relationship. Thank you for explaining this in detail, Mr. Vaknin! I couldn't make sense of what was happening to me. Thank you for your insight, you have literally saved my life.
When I paid her a compliment she groaned and doubled up as if punched her in the belly;
a few days later I offered some personal help for her son, whereupon she shouted at me she didn't want it and stomped off!
She clearly read my overtures and offers as a threat as you outlined above🤔
I’m not one to leave comment, but this video is so healing. Saved.
If someone was talking about “putting more love into the world” but who exhibited a lot of narc traits… I wonder if he was more borderline?
Or faking it.
My ex always talked of importance of empathy compassion in human beings lives. He talked of how he cares about people and that he cares even about the strangers. But in reality he only dealt with people who could benefit to his existence and he was the one who talked of empathy but always dismissed and labelled my emotions as too sensitive when i tried to convey the hurt he was causing in me.
One of your best, most impactful videos.
Professor Vaknin, I just want to say a big- Thank you for the work you do - it has helped me immensely in understanding and excepting some of the most difficult circumstances and people in my life! The way you explain these issues is so clear and in dept. What you are doing is very important to me and many - Thank you!
I was the oldest, scapegoat and abused by overt dark traid parent but the lack of love she had I gave and had to develop as I took care of all her children. I became super codependent and working still to stop it. I think I did see what love wasn't from my mother but in another sense it could've been trauma bonding as I raised, protected and also felt obligated. I also was only given worth as a great sister, til my mom started triagulating them when older and I left finally after abuse. She blamed me bc the police came to our home and took us when a teacher noticed my bruising and signs. So then i was the enemy. She even took away my full ride scholarship to college. Its sad.
Prof Vaknin, many thanks for your videos...this one sums it up perfectly ! It helps to let him go....
Wasted 2 years. Not anymore.
Performance. The representative man.
Mine as well be married to a hologram.
The divorce is going on at the fourth month.
Recovery from from a narcissist takes real work.
How are you doing now? It is a shock to your system.. there are aftereffects.
I am familiar with that. The filling of rejection is most painful.
You are my comfort zone Professor.
Your lectures sooth me. I closed myself to avoid toxicity some time ago and it seems I was the toxicity oftentimes. Not capable to be with people. At least I learn the alphabet of this collapse. I hope one day Ill recover. ❤
Wow, this is so deep and so clear, I am fascinated by this lecture! Bravo👏👏👏
When you see these signs in a 17 yr old son, it is hard to know if it is an adolescent struggle that will pass, how if at all a parent can make up for the past and be more available in the present, and if one’s efforts are actually making things worse.
Have you explored therapy for him? My heart is with you Mama
Yes, and antidepressants. He’s off them now, and has quit therapy.
I'm sorry to hear that you feel helpless in helping your son. I hope you can find some guidance, as I am not versed enough to be helpful, I won't pretend I have answers. I just want you to know I empathize with you. Have you sought therapy for yourself? Maybe some help could be found there with coping and managing your own stress and heartache concerning your son.💜
@@katrina3560 thanks for your kind words. I am doing EMDR therapy and recently did a week long therapy retreat in Jamaica centered around taking hallucinogenic mushrooms. Both have been very helpful in healing my own past trauma and being in a strong healthy frame of mind so I can be my best self for my son however he shows up.
Brilliant!
Very enlightening Dr. Vaknin! Odd how one can intuit some of this as a child and only process/affirm it cerebrally decades later. Inspired to learn more about Winnicott.
On a lighter side...I was waiting for Benatar's "Love Is a Battlefield" - 😅
Thank you so much Dear Professor for interesting video ❤
Such a Truth Sam
Thanks for this video. It has come at the right time for me
Great one!
Thank you
So Powerful. Thank you PSV.
This is so powerful, thank you sir💯🙏🏾
Thank you Dr. Vaknin, beautiful as usual. 🤍
Wow! Amazing video! Your videos are top notch. Thank you.
Thanks Dr Sam
This is powerful and thank you sincerely for liberating us
Very enlightening explanation. Thank you!
I would like to hear what you have to say about how a psychopath views love.
He doesn't.
Amazing explanation and clarity here.🔥🔥🔥
I understand you easily. Thank you for the great information x
very well put
Muchas gracias Sam.
If the narcissist needs you to betray him in order to try to separate and individuate, does this also mean that they're more attached to you when you're gone?
Search the channel for "hoover".
“Improper Functioning” Malfunction
Strange thing is even those guys I dated who had seemingly healthy families and loving moms, they still behaved like they don't need any love, and acted like Narcissists. So.... I guess it's some sort of modern- day fashion to act like this
Watch the contemporary sexuality playlist. It is invulnerability signaling.
Dr. Vaknin,
how is psychopathic grandiosity different from narcissistic grandiosity besides not being dependent on external sources of admiration?
Do psychopaths also consider themselves gods or do the just think that they were the best? And do they have a false self, to which they refer in the third person singular?
The psychopath’s narcissistic supply is self-supply.
I can definitely identify with the deep self hatred and feeling unworthy of love, hideously ugly, and that love always ends in excruciating pain and abandonment. But I haven't been able to construct a reliable "false self". I don't have that armor of a false self that the narcissist has. That "bad object" self perception is VERY conscious to me.
Yet, I can identify with many of the traits described surrounding the narcissist's views on love. As far as being deeply suspicious and untrusting of the validity of others who claim to love me. Because at least a couple times now, I've had women that claimed to love me SO deeply and "forever" and all that crap who in the end, abandoned me anyway. But it's extremely easy for me to admit that I'm not perfect. I constantly apologize for my mistakes and even things I didn't do. I'm always willing to own up to my mistakes and genuinely feel deep, long lasting remorse for wrongs I've committed toward others that I care about (which has resulted in lifelong chronic depression and suicidal ideation). I don't in any way think of myself as "God like".
Lastly, I definitely am very aware of and can easily admit my need and desire for genuine, deep, passionate love. Real love, that's caring, compassionate, understanding, accepts the other's humanity and faults, etc.
So yeah, I can see myself in some of this but I just feel like I have way more self awareness and ability to connect to others on a deep vulnerable level.
Professor-
Thank you so much for all you do. Can you please shed insights into a narcissistic relationship with another narcissist (Overt/covert etc).
Thank you in advance!
Search the channel for "odd couple".
this is exactly what my ex experienced
i feel for her i want her to truly watch this but its almost impossible 😢
Hi,
Thanks for the video, question: the material figure that we are referring to, can it be a combination of 2 or multiple people? For example the baby that has a mom and a grandma that are in charge or babies that were grown with a mother and a mother in law ( stable, present mother roles, not temporary) How does this mother figure merges in the baby's mind?
Or Is it only one person that the baby creates this bond with?
Yes.
Would this apply in any way to the covert borderline? Or does his 'good object' defend him from these difficulties? Thank you once again, Professor Sam Vaknin. Your insight is invaluable.
Watch the covert borderline playlist.
This is all true. I hate love and I don’t want anyone to loved me I want to love myself only but we want someone to let us feel we existed. We are dreaming we want someone/participants in our dreams.
Are you a narcissist?
@@ezra4518 secret
So much of this sounds like my ex-fiancé, who is not a narcissist, but a Dismissive Avoidant. I wonder what your analysis on Dismissive Avoidants would look like, but I understand that attachment styles aren't your area of focus.
So sad !
Are there any videos dealing with affairs? Do they live happily ever after? My husband seems to be giving his affair partner intimacy and love and all the resources (divorce is pending). Any videos that go into the affair dynamics?
Search the playlists.
Is there no hope for a narsasist. Should they just end the pain?
Sam , are they aware that they are in pain..?? or is the defence ..the false self who they are now as adults ? I am in pain , tryig to understand if my husband killed himself in pain....or in his ever present anger.
Search the channel for "injury", "mortification", and "suicide".
Wow
since he doesn't care at all for his intimate partner , can you give me a hinge why he threatens his wife that after divorce if she finds somebody else he will hurt her ? (economical first)
Search the channel for "hoover".
Are borderlines the same with narcissists?
Search the BPD palylist.
Can you not tell them they are not bad..not worthless ? Is there no way to change that message to them. To let them know they are safe with you
No.
The voice in my head, the guilt and shame of failing him. Him hanging himself 42 days ago. I dont want to be a victim/casualty. How could I not see this , for 28 years. The denial and refusal to see how my lifelong trauma played into my self destruction. The sadistic , horrific way he chose to punish me..even in his death. I want to recover. I want to stop blaming myself. You are keeping me alive Sam..I cant tell you how thankful I am that you are here.
@@debbyjoy3I am so sorry for what you've been through, but please, don't waste your admiration on another narcissist (Prof. Vaknin). He won't hear you. God hears you and sees all of your tears. He's bought our freedom from shame and guilt by giving His only begotten son. May you find peace and rest and freedom from the demons of torment.
Is it somewhat the same for Borderline ?
No.
Thank you
Thank you