Is a Porsche Boxster really an upgrade from a Miata? DO meet your heroes!
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- Luke sold his turbo ND Miata for a Boxster GTS, and I finally get to drive it! We discuss how it could be a Miata upgrade, or how it might have to exist alongside one. Plus, how it differs from Cayman and Emira and others.
[ TIMELINE ]
00:00 Intro
00:52 Walkaround
15:26 Driving Impressions
36:18 Final thoughts
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#porsche #boxster #miata
I was the exterior designer for all 981s including GT4, lots of blood sweat and tears expended, so I am very attached to these. Love the color on your car and appreciate the positive remarks in the comments on the design - thanksd! BTW, interior design was by the very talented Martin Pohanka and IHMO he did a great job. Gabor Herczeg as studio engineer, along with the wonderful engineering team at Porsche enabled us to package a lot of space into a compact sports car - the Jag F-Type is 10cm wider and has less luggage space - and get awonderfully quick folding roof. GTS is a real sweet spot in the range and I am astonished (and happy) that the same basic design (718 is a facelift) is being sold over 10 years after introduction.
What a lot of people don't realize is that Porsche designed these to be easy to work on - they are pretty mechanic friendly.
It seems that interst in these has really picked up recently - is that because its replacement is going to be electric?
For me the 981 Cayman has one of the most beautiful shaped cars on the road. My S in agate grey is stunning and I've had multiple people walk over to me in a parking lot and admire it. So @hughrobinson9978 you did a great job! I like the interior, although it is a bit loud at speed and of course the cup holders suck, lol. 😀
@@rickhayner2514 Thanks - that really means a lot ! The greatest feeling for a designer is to see the product of all their blood, sweat and tears being used and appreciated....
Just picked up a 981 GTS that I bought from a local car collector so this comment really resonated with me in terms of how beautifully elegant the exterior design is. There is an effortless fluidity to its lines that most modern sports cars can’t replicate. Interestingly, at least in Australia where I live, the 981 Boxster and Cayman GTS models seem to be holding their value very well.
@@rickhayner2514hey Hugh, this is Luke here with the (now sold) 981 GTS. I can't overstate how easy the car was to live with as a small convertible. It's amazing how much usable space is built into the cabin, trunk & frunk. Just about every non car-nerd I spoke with assumed that it was a 2020+ model year vehicle, because the design has aged so well...and probably also because the 718 "redesign" was very conservative haha.
I've owned 2 NCs, an ND1, an ND2, and a 986S. I agree with what he's saying, the Boxster is just a more complete car. My Porsche taught me that you don't have to have rock hard coilovers to handle well on track, and you don't need a loud, droney exhaust to appreciate the engine noise. But at the end of the day it's more expensive for a reason. You get what you pay for. But on the other end, Porsches can be reliable, but that doesn't mean running costs are low.
There are things that the Miata does aside from being cheap that do make it better. The Miata feels more connected to the road, it gives more feedback, the manual shifter is infinitely better, the experience is much more raw which gives it the street legal go-kart feeling we all love. The comradery among the Miata community is second to none. The only thing more gatekept than the Porsche community is the White House. Owning a Boxster will give you access to the grounds but far from the Oval Office. It is also quite nice to open the hood and see an engine. I was changing the spark plugs on my Boxster with it jacked up and the rear tires off, a curious bystander thought I was being sarcastic.
Overall, they are both fantastic cars. IMO the Porsche is a better daily, the Miata is a better weekend toy/track car. If you can afford the Boxster, buy one. If you can't, then get the Miata and don't think twice about it.
Damn, love the description.
Luke here! This is a great comment and pretty well summarizes my thoughts between my highly modded ND1 (FM / Fox coilovers, BBR turbo kit, etc.) vs. the Boxster GTS. The completeness of the Porsche in one package is extremely appealing to me, as someone who doesn't have much time to fuss with & dial in modifications on a trackable street car.
The miata community takes themselves FAR less seriously than the Porsche community, and I loved that. If I could comfortably fit in a miata still, that would probably be the platform I'd be in.
Very much disagree with the shifter comment though. The ND is one of the best out there, but modern Porsche boxes are incredibly good, especially if you're lucky enough to get a GT3/GT4 with 3 pedals.
@@lukeboustred4479 to be fair, my experience with the shifters is with the 986/987 so I can't comment on the 981 or 718. I did the 997 shifter upgrade which was far better than my broken stock shifter but neither were worth writing home about.
@@lukeboustred4479 cable driven shifter will never have the same alive feel as a turret/direct shifter...
@@ikaros4203true, it could get close though, if the slop in the mechanism and cables is removed.
The one thing cable shift has going for it is that the shifter doesn't rock with the drivetrain. In the Miata the motor/gearbox moves around on the rubber mount, and its easy to miss shifts. You can make it better with stiffer engine mounts, but then you get more nvh.
If you can afford it the 981 is maybe the best roadster ever built. That’s from Car and Driver and EVO magazines, not me. I’ve owned an M Edition Miata, an MR2 and now a 981 Boxster S for three years. Mine has the X73 sports suspension. I do the maintenance myself once a year and it takes about 5-6 hours. Uses Mobil One. $80, Oil filter is about $40, three liters of PDK fluid about $50, washable air filters $0 after first year. I clean the cabin filters and so far so good on those. Brakes last 3-4 years front and about five years rear driving 5-7k a year. Brakes are very easy to replace and I’m not a mechanic. About $1,000 for pads and rotors complete so save about $200 a year for those. Save fifty bucks a month for tires if you run summer tires. They last about three years. Every 40k you change the drive belt and plugs. That’s all the maintenance there is on this car and I bought mine with a warranty.
This is not outrageous for a car of this capability. It’s so precise I don’t have to drive fast to enjoy it. It gets great gas mileage on the highway, over 27mpg at 65-75mph. This car will run a 12.5 in the qtr and 0-60 in the low fours. Pulls over one G in turns but I rarely if ever corner that hard. You can get an S with 30-40k miles for 40-45k it’s worth it. You won’t see yourself driving down the road every five minutes. I live in a small town and rarely see another one.
I have professionally repaired and driven every version of both cars. I love them all equally. They are all awesome fun to drive. It doesn't matter what vintage. The Boxster and the MX-5 make you smile when you drive one. I own a 23 MX-5 GT. It reminds me so much of my 68 MGB that I almost cry sometimes when I drive it. It has the spirt of my old MG.
That car used is more than 2 brand new Miatas
But it’s three times the car!
😂
Better things cost more money because they're more desired......so exactly what is your point? Everyone knows that better costs more typically.
Yet the miata is still more fun to drive
@@Sideways_Singh That's a matter of opinion. Porsche owners prefer the Porsche, Miata owners enjoy their Miata...both a good cars, Miata's simply are nowhere near as good looking, but both are very well built cars that are both enjoyable and fit different budgets or priorities. Personally I'd prefer the Porsche by ten miles, but I could enjoy driving a Miata for sure, they're great, fun, reliable, and affordable, and affordable wins out over looks every time.
And a Rolls costs as much as 4 S-Class Mercs. And a Rolex costs 10 x a Seiko which is equally good as a timepiece. I think most humans accepted that more expensive doesn’t always equate to better value not long after consumerism was invented about 3000 years ago…
The 981 generation Boxster/Cayman is one of the most reliable, most beautifully designed, and best sounding Porsches ever built (with the Porsche Sport Exhaust). The 981 GTS has a unique front bumper design that is special to trim level 981 GTS only. It sounds better than the 718 GTS 4.0 and it is a better value proposition. Coming from a Miata, one gets pretty spoiled with the fun factor and the inexpensive cost of parts/labor.
A fully loaded 981S is the value car, you can add the sports design package after
100%! There's a reason the 981 is beloved in the boxster / cayman generation lineup. Semi affordable, reliable, and reasonably easy to do work on. 718 is a bit sterile unless you pay $90k+ for a 4.0, and the 987s have their issues with bore scoring. A well optioned 981 S is a bargain
987 looks better inside and out imo, weighs less, has hydraulic steering, and costs less.
@@lukeboustred4479987.2 2.9 is bullet proof. The earlier 3.2 and 3.4 are the problem.
@@jjchockey the inside looks dated big time, ims and bore scoring are keeping prices down.
So he never actually said why he is selling the car!!! I am a 987 Boxster S owner and also had an NB Miata in the stable back to back for around 5 years so there definitely is room for both with the Miata honing your driving skills as a momentum car. I literally just drove from the Tennessee mountains back to Florida this past Friday in the Boxster which took 13.5 hours because I avoid Atlanta like the plague and got out at the end of it totally fine. Take the leap, you won't regret it.
Love this review...Great conversation, funny and informative 😂👏
Porsche just makes you smile. Enough said ❤
Makes your wallet cry when it breaks
@@aerotus888 then stick to non pedigree cars
Beautiful car. Doesn't get much better looking or sounding than a 981 GTS 👌
This video resonates with me, as I've had multiple Miatas, NC1, ND1, ND2 30th anniversary, as well as multiple Porsches. I had a manual 981 Boxster S that had PASM, Sport Chrono, PTV, and it had the 18 way ventilated seats 😋 I have a lot of back/neck issues as well, and with PASM and PS4S tires, it was one of the most comfortable cars I've ever been in. I currently have a 987.2 Boxster S, which you're right, the steering is better (the one real weak point about the 981 imo), but everything else I liked better about the 981. This video actually made me miss it.
I've had a Lotus Exige and Ariel Atom 2 in the past as well, and honestly no car is more fun than a Miata. Faster, more raw, sure, but fun? I don't think so. I do think the Porsches are more complete cars though, and their precision, daily functionality, and track durability is exceptional. Agree with the assessment, they're different and both great, if you can, have both!
Thanks for the video!
Great video! Very informative and nicely made
I went from a 981 Cayman S to an ND3 because I go on a lot of track days and although the p car was faster, the MX-5 is cheaper to insure for the day, consumables cost way less, the limits are lower, and seems to have much more of a sense of humor. A friend of mine let me drive his ND2 on the street and even there, there’s so much more of a giggle factor being a hooligan in a Miata whereas the Porsche was irresponsible to push beyond like 6/10’s on the street. The Miata is more approachable from the standpoint of people chatting you up about it, it’s started way more conversations than the P car ever did for me. Idk man I loved that engine note but as someone who just likes my cars to be a laugh the Miata takes a pretty easy win for me.
Great video! Cheers guys!
I had a '16 ND Club for 3 years, then sold it for an '18 Boxster GTS. Now, after nearly 5 years with the Boxster, I find myself missing the Miata. The Boxster is the more complete car, but it never put a smile on my face like the Miata did.
I am very torn because I know the Boxster is the "better" car from a performance, refinement and practicality standpoint. But the Miata always just felt more "honest" and fun to me. I know if I sell the Boxster I will never be able to afford another one (I got an impossible-to-duplicate deal on the Boxster new) while the Miata is always there as an option.
I found myself frequently missing the lightheartedness of the ND I owned. The Boxster really comes alive past 7/10ths and is amazing up to the limit...but those limits are high for the street, and with the crazy tall gearing they're hard to legally tap into.
Interesting take, but the reality is the difference in quality and performance is substantial. I've owned quite a few Porsche sports cars and have never had to do more than normal servicing, which where required is upped when track use comes into play. All Porsche sports cars are designed to do track time out of the box.
I love automatic Rev Matching in my GT4. I have big feet so struggle to manually rev match and having this function has greatly improved my dirving when I am pushing it.
I love the way it is configured. Pedal spacing is perfect if you want to heel toe, and auto blip works great if you dont. Porsche gave us the best of both worlds!
Cost of ownership is way different of something needs to be fixed outside of warranty. Even routine maintenance.
Great review, love to see you try a Lotus Elise as comparison to both this Boxster and your Miata. Thanks
Three fantastic cars that get to the end result (fun) in very different ways. There is no bad choice from them!
My brother has an Elise S2 with a Honda K20 engine, it's fun to drive horrible to live with. I like to drive it on a Sunday for an hour or 2 but for longer trips and everyday driving I would choose the Boxster, for daily driving a Miata because I would be to scared for stone chips in traffic on the Boxster (if I had one)
@@tubejorrit agree Elise is a weekend special. You'd hate it if used as a daily.
Despite having a few years left to worry about it I'm still torn up about what our "empty nest" convertible will be, I so look forward to road tripping the country with my wife but I would never expect her to ride that out in my NC PRHT. So the Boxster for the longest time is where I thought I'd go but maybe it really isn't THAT much more livable with the top closed, though it certainly lets you bring a LOT more luggage on the trip. So I've been looking at things with even a "useless" back seat like Mercedes, Bimmers, maybe even an LC500 to really go big pimp. That fake 2nd row is a good place for snacks or even a dog... If it means SHE can drive it while I take an occasional nap I don't even mind sacrificing a little fun and going automatic.
Either way it would need to be something they're selling NOW, so I can buy it used in 5-10 years 😂 - but did you ever mention what Luke is getting instead??
Luke here! Between the boxsters frunk and trunk I've never run out of room for storage. It's remarkably practical for trips & Costco runs. I fit in Jordans NC well enough, but there is a huge amount of leg room in the boxster cabin.
For long tips neither is ideal. Comfort is critical. I want to stretching out and so does my wife. So we have a comfy SUV for road trips and I have a Miata as a fun toy. The Boxsters are not budget toys. They are just larger and unnecessarily more expensive. The Miata is more bang for,the buck and serves the same purpose. Buying a Boxster is like buying a Rolex rather than a Timex. I love my Timex and my Miata. Soul Red RF.
My son has the Porsche 981. I have a Miata NC. The Porsche is better if I'm being objective, but not by as much as the price difference would demand. My Miata is just about as much fun to drive. My son recently said that if he actually fit inside the newest ND Miata then he'd just buy that for a daily.
I had a S2000 and a 981 Cayman S and loved them both. As for fun to drive nothing could beat the S2000 it put a smile on my face every time I took it out! The 981 is of course much more a GT car and far more useful when having to go to Home Depot or Costco. It was also IMO drop dead gorgeous! But circumstances were such that I had to get rid of one of them. So I sold the S2000 and missed it the very next day and still do. None-the-less I am very happy with the 981. It is way too fast to exploit its potential, unlike the S2000, but its utility and drop dead looks get me every time!
I owned a 981 Cayman S, 6 speed with the PSE and Sport Plus options. It was a great car, beautiful, good usability as I was daily driving it back then. I sold it when I moved to CO because of elevation and the tall gearing. Picked up an Alfa 4C, and recently added a well used ND2 Miata(can't make summer camp this year :(. All 3 are great fun cars in different ways. I think if I was forced to reduce the number of cars right now I'd be targeting a Boxster Spyder.
I cross shopped agaonst the 718 GTS with the 2.5 turbo because they're incredibly quick at our elevation in CO. The 981 GTS is on pace with a 718 base model here haha.
Love the video. Why is Luke selling and what is next for him?
Just sold my 2011 987.2 Spyder a month ago and picked up a ND2 RF! I drive Colorado mountain roads primarily. I'll probably regret letting the Spyder go, however, in the handling department after some minor upgrades the Miata is truly just as much fun at a much lower cost and I don't mind piling on the miles. I have upgraded the springs, sway bars, and tires which puts it right with the Porsche for handling on smooth surfaces, but I give the Spyder the nod for stability at speed and handling road imperfections far better, and if you need to pass someone going uphill at 10K feet of elevation (or any elevation honestly) it is no contest :). Could you justify owning both? Maybe, but for me they served the same purpose.
One major thing to point out: the Boxster has WAY more interior room than the Miata. Anyone over 6’-1” cannot cross shop these two cars…you’d have to just go for the Boxster.
Not true. I'm 6'1" and fit just fine in my ND RF. They say over 6'3" would be a problem. Boxter is roomier and a great car.
@@archstanton726999% of anecdotes about ppl over 6' 3" in Miata's forgot one crucial factor - TORSO LENGTH.
If you're 6' 3" but have short torso, you're good to go. Have longer torso: you're starting right into the sun shade.
Height doesn't mean much in this case without mentioning how long your torso is.
Everyone is different, hence these very confusing anecdote.,
As a current 987 boxster owner, i would say the cats are very different in nature. Both equally fun in their own right.
I got a brand new boxster for 44k very few extras but what a car .
I just stepped out of my friends 2005 Cayman S thats more of a track oriented car, no carpets, no stereo, aftermarket suspension and stiffer clutch etc and just came to a realisation. 35-45 year old me would have loved that car. Now as I'm hitting the 50 next year its just too much racecar for me. I cant believe I just typed that in an public space. Sheeesh. So I will probably look for an early 986 Boxster or Boxster S manual to replace my current Super Seven. (You should definatly see if you can try a Westfield or similar seven type car, they are awsome.)
With your discussion of altitude there, I'd like to see you try out the Abarth 124 by Fiat vs the MX-5. I have one at sea level and it's very good, but im on my way to test a 2002 Boxster S to see if i want to return to the Porsche fold.
I am an avowed bottom feeder, have owned a couple of NA Miatas (they were still current when I got my first). I have a great super clean 1999 Boxster now. A nice NA can cost MORE than an equivalent Boxster. Granted, Inhave already spent more on small repairs and tires than I ever spent over 15 years of Miata ownership, but the Boxster (even the early 2.5) is a much more substantial car.
I had a $10k Boxster and I sold it to get a Club Miata. That was 10 years ago. Unfortunately the cost of Club Miata's have been going up faster than I can save. I still miss the Porsche but I think the Miata will still make me happy.
As an NC owner I’ve always wondered how it would be to own a Porsche or Corvette. I like.
Windows XP wallpaper...too funny!
That interior color is "platinum grey" ;)
There it is 😂
Well my nc is due to get the full Rocketeer treatment and i hope that will lift it into the Boxter class...not that im bothered if it don't.
I would happily spend £20k and put a Boxster in the garage to run alongside my ND. Had my 1.5 ND1 6 years now, road tax here in UK £190, just checked out one of these Boxsters on Autotrader, road tax £710. As a weekend toy that I hardly get to use lately due to so much rain so far this summer the running cost is just way too much to even consider owning a Porsche. Everyday car maybe but not for a toy or 2nd toy. Nevertheless enjoyed the video.
Just forward to 26:30, «laughs in German» Haha made my day! Ps. Sold my 2023 Taycan CT 4S, picking up 2024 MX-5 Homura in Soul red.
It's not a convertible, it's not available in the USA and it's only available as a DCT, but the Alpine A110 still needs to be in any sports car discussion. The Alpine also sits in a similar middle ground, where it's not as stripped out as an old Lotus, it's a bit bigger but still only weighs 1100Kg. It also has short gearing and rides and handles like a dream.
final question. this iteration of the porsche boxster is very probably one of the finest sports cars ever built, and almost certainly (especially in the 981 configuration)
a future classic. so why the hell would anybody even remotely in his right mind want to sell it? I may have missed it, but I didn`t hear luke explain. I`m perplexed.
Jeez Jordan - now you’re telling me I need a Porsche Boxster in my garage?
Your wallet should be telling you not Jordan
Where's the car listed? In Colorado and interested.
Already committed to a sale, sorry!
My wife being German says if I was to bring a Porsche home, she’d divorce me. 😂😂 mx5 just as much fun for less than half the price and ongoing expenses.
Though I'd love to own a Boxster I can afford a Miata. Love my used ND1.
Short answer: yes
Went from NC2 to 987 Cayman, an upgrade in every way on paper. Better brakes, more power, more room, better looking, more interesting. I regret getting rid of the NC to this day. I had no reliability issues with the Cayman but I only had it a year before I had to ditch it. The Porsche was soulless, lacked an LSD (absurd for a sports car), more expensive to buy and insure, nerve wracking to park in the city or public parking lots, more suspicious to law enforcement and the general traffic, and most importantly, simply way less fun to drive at the limit. The constant worry of mechanical failure and like mentioned right before the 11:00 minute mark you always have to suspect the worst possible scenario. I’ve come to realize Porsches are a rich man’s toy and only work if you really can afford worst case scenario when it does happen. Much like BMW the base cars are just not that good, but once you get into the M cars or GTx Porsches they really get good. After 5 Miata’s and 4 German “sports” cars I’ve come to realize the old acronym is true:
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer
they say nd3 electric power steering is best next to porsche and lucid air , now with symmmtercal limited slip diffrential. kirk kierfields yotube reviews a magazine whos been pretty accurate with toyota honda etc plan leaks, and they say inline 3 miata competitor is coming, maybe mr2 revival. inline 3 more effceintand sounds pretty much like 6 cyilnder.=,, a hypermiling car would be great .
Definitely not an upgrade as they are different cars. As a 997 owner I think the Miata is more fun to drive
Can I ask why you have this opinion? I own a NC but have always had the Porsche thoughts...
@@FatherandSonHavingFun The NC feels more like an extension of the driver. While the 911/997 may have more refined engineering and performance, it doesn't have the same amount of fun. I also think the NC handles turn and weight transfer better. Finally, while the 911/997 is definitely a faster car quantitatively, NC feels faster. I drive the NC more than the 991/997. NC is an easier car to work on than the 911/997.
I have a 987 boxster and I feel like the cars would complement each other well. Front engine and mid engine have very different dynamics. Owning a Miata and Cayman would be nice
@@FatherandSonHavingFun VW/AUDI group cars are maintenance nightmares. I have have two complete engine failures... VW/AUDI/PORSCHE/SEAT/SKODA all share components with eachother, including some engines... STAY AWAY FROM VAG CARS.. I'M WARNING YOU... LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES.
Why didn't you guys say how much he was selling it for????
What the fuck is auto rev match lol! I have an NC1 and have never even heard that. Sounds like it'd take the skill and fun out of it. Interesting 😊
The MX5 is a great little car, but it's a bit soft, the steering is a bit numb, and it just doesn't feel 'special'.
The Boxster is the answer to all of those flaws.
Rev match is a great thing...niissan Z came out with it first and the hater journalists were all over youtube, now that every company has them where are they now...
I rather with the porsche money, have a mx5, gr corolla, and daily
Where are all of these gts4.0 and emira and 911 videos that get mentioned here? Need more videos! More entertainment! More commuting noise.
"nothing changed" from the porsche 981 to the 718 iteration of the boxster? I mean, really? what happened was THE most significant change in all of porsche`s history!
in reality, volkswagen had taken over full control of porsche. the result was a fundamental reorientation, leading to the ill-fated decision to replace the six cylinder models
with four-cylinder turbo-charged engines: a major decision that essentially anticipated the current move to an all-electric boxster/cayman line-up. this reorientation that
began with the 718 series may very well - in the not-too-distant future - prove both volkswagen`s and porsche`s undoing.
It’s a side step
It's a step up depending on what your plans are. As a GT, canyon carving car, it's a step up.
Toyota MR2 Spyder
so, whattaya want for it?
lol
Of course, do bears 💩 in the woods?
no
The miata nd is more fun to drive then even a gt4rs or 911 gt3, u can spend million n not have more fun then a miata, they are different experiences but not more fun brand new today theres nothing more fun, there are a handful of older cars that are as fun or more fun then a miata nd.
Sold my NC Miata 3 years ago.. to get me an “upgrade”.. a Porsche Boxster.. after 1 year of ownership, I sold it to buy me an ND Miata.. best decision ever..
the Boxster was “meh” at best and it’s in no way better than a Miata.. it will never be
Boxster has premium materials, Miot is truly a sport car
I've owned many VW/AUDI cars... the Miata is far superior in the fact that you don't have to worry about it blowing up like you do a Porsche.
It’s an upgrade if you’re a female hairdresser
Pronounce it proper ffs, you are supposed to be the car guys eho know better ffs
I’m sure the Porsche is a blast to drive but personally I could never justify gambling on the cost of ownership. Miata is the perfect combo of fun to drive and reliable, easy on the budget
A 1999 porsche boxter gets 20 mpg in gas, and my nc1 miata gets 29 mpg and has the same 0-60 time.
That's a big deal. Love my go Cart