Kiriko can two tap half of the characters, has insane healing, one of the most powerful ults, one of the smallest if not the smallest head and body hit boxes, can wall climb, can make herself and her team immortal, can cleanse bleed, burn, anti, stun, and she can teleport out of a fight in a milisecond. She needs to be nuked out of the game
IT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM: You saind "uncounterable" and I wondered if EMP could interrupt it and then it hit me. Tank Sombra. Lore- She gets hit by a bus. Moira scoops out her brain and puts it in a 450hp omnic panther. She's a tank now. Has invis (automatic, 5ish second cooldown with fast application, takes time to decloak), "pounce" (winston leap with instant decloak), more or less the same gun, and an EMP grenade cooldown that shoots little EMPs (none of this damage debuff nonsense either, just a simple 3s lockout, no hp damage, maybe anti shield damage because it's cute). Ult is ???. A big charge up cone damage attack or something.
Im a Kiriko otp in gm, but even i think she needs a big nerf. I hope they only nerf her survivability and mby the damage tho. Just overall give her more risk. But i think removing her wall climb would be weird as that is the only skillbased survivability she has, she should just get less easy value and more risk manement.
yeah, removing anything movement based skill is bad for the game. her burst and RNG kunai is #1 problem, secondly add cooldown to teleport, 7second is a joke, and the teleport removes debuff too, thats so extra.
I love people who complain about anas abilities and cooldowns when you have things like kiriko. In a game where baiting cooldowns and keeping track of said cooldowns where actually important for winning teamfights now you have a do-it-all character like kiri whos entire gameplay consitsts tp to target
yes, but i think the dps burst is just so unnecessary for her, she can literally do everything. and the wall climb is just icing on the cake. if her dmg is tune down way more, that makes it better force her to do more healing and accidental spam kill, she is just a hanzo built-in bap but better, way better.
I'm not even going to watch the full video, just from the very first clip of quake trying to demonstrate how dooms ult is trash and will never be good to use aggressively, and this guy uses it as a "suzu rage counter" clip, bro you are so out of your mind if you think quake raged because of suzu, the suzu in that clip was the least of his worries there, man got stunned and deleted in a second on top of his ult doing absolutely nothing, the title itself is just a massive no, play different heroes and get your abilities cleansed all the time and see how fun and "good" it is for the game
Kiriko is not OP, but she has OP parts of her kit. Honestly, just remove the invulnerability and intangiblity from suzu and maybe make her swift step require LOS and then shes okay
You have clearly never played rein shattered 3 and watch them all get cleansed instantly, play some tank or damage your opinion will change pretty quick
If you’re a kiri main I wouldn’t be too worried about her being nerfed. It took blizzard 3 years to bring brig to a reasonable level even after the entire playerbase told blizzard she was broken on ptr.
You're wrong. And it's not a fad to hate her. Adding her was a mistake a year ago, as big a mistake as removing OW1. Your clickbait title isn't your real take; the title is really stupid and your take is okay.
A balanced take that isn't deep into hyperbole. Those are rare, brother! We'll come back to this comment when you have 100k subs. In time. Mark my words.
this might be a hot take but i dont think immortality and anti heals should be abilities. with ow1 i felt alot of the time people would play lucio/zen for their defensive ults to counter things like shatter or grav and it kinda made sense a ult countering an ult but now with lamp and clease it feels less skillful and more just press your buttons. I dont think anyone has complained about junkerqueens anti because how infrequent it is but ana is a different story. I would like to see an experimental where they change: lamp to instead of being a immortality to a reduced damage, or maybe like a increased healing affect like anas nade on friendlies, i dont think the whole immortality thing defines bap because he is a combat healer and as long as its a drone he throws Ana nade to again maybe a reduce healing like the reverse effect to remove that frustration and in compensation you could lower the cooldown and overall numbers i dont have and solid ideas for suzu but i feel like the ability is trying to be to much, its a clease/immortality and a burst heal and i think it could do with less idk what to even say abt lifeweaver maybe this is just modern hero design but it all of these new abilitys make the game feel so arcady
Her kunai is actually bigger than Zens, travels faster and does the same headshot damage with DISCORD APPLIED. Nerf the hurtbox of the projectile down to Zen's orb size, nerf the headshot multiplier and buff the bodyshot damage. There shes fixed.
so im high masters sometimes gm. my issue and most other dps players would agree its moreso being 2 tapped faster than i could do the same to her. id like her projectile size nerfed down to match genji and hanzo. she can keep her lethality but make it actually difficult. I realize i play a different game from most of the people who play this game so my perspective is skewed Then the issue is how much of the playerbase just healbots on her and how this nerf would discourage more aggressive plays which is kinda necessary to really get value out of her. since there are a lot more of the healbot kirikos than duelist kirikos, blizzard looks at that negative winrate from the sheer amount of people in gold and silver being ofuda bots for 10 minutes. Its why this cahracter keeps not only gets left alone but fucking buffed repeatedly. Then consider the marketing. she MOST DEFINETELY sells the most amount of skins maybe second to mercy. she has a huge audience of different playstyles and has permanently been meta since her inception. Shes the games cash cow and highlight generator. shes also makes bad players feel good about themselves. dont forget shes top tier coombait. blizzard didnt do this on accident, i think all of this is by design.
TLDR : Nerf kiriko to incentivize more skillful play rather than just nerfing her into the ground ok i'd like to give my take here i think kirikos kit is fine but its overtuned for sure even with the nerfs to suzu its still way too powerful and game changing for a 15 second cool down. I think suzu's cooldown should be increased to somewhere around baps immortality field (around 25 seconds) and it should do around 50 healing with no cleanse and 80 with cleanse to make it less of a tempting cooldown to throw just for herself, since even baiting out suzu can be useless at times if a teamfight lasts a little too long I think these changes would make it a more valuable resource which would incentivize smarter play with it. her kunai damage they should change to a flat 2x headshot damage since the amount of dps she can dish out can feel incredibly unfair at times (especially when she isnt even aiming at you but manages to hit you anyways) an alternative could be to decrease the hitbox size of her kunai and keep damage as is since it would again incentivize skill and make accidental kills a little less common as well. however the biggest thing i'd want them to change is her hurtbox size, hitting kiri is like trying to shoot a goddamn needle from 60 feet away so much so that pro players choose to aim at her feet rather than her torso or head since the hitbox is bigger there. its a really overlooked part of balance that i think would make kiri a lot easier to pick off and a lot less frustrating to deal with. swift step i think is fine the main thing with it is that it takes them straight to a teammate which can make it more frustrating because she is just instantly tp'ing away back to safety i like the comparison to moira's fade but with fade you move a shorter distance and its not guaranteed that you will be able to make it back to your team so they're somewhat similar just different pros and cons. moira's fade is faster and you can use it more frequently but safety is not guaranteed, swift step requires a teammate to be in a somewhat safe spot which in turn makes it slightly harder to use but safety is more of a given when using it and i don't really think that trade-off is that bad of a thing.
I feel removing teleport and giving her a bigger hitbox would be good - so that she has the same survivability as other highly impactful supports like Ana and Zenyatta.
The teleport is what makes the character fun to play and facilitates the point of the character being a flanker healer. A much better approach would be to make suzzu single target, not self usable, and reduce her healing. These abilities are functional but not fun, so you can easily balance the character without taking away her identity or play style.
ok, i love kiriko to bits so i may be a lil biased but i agree with a lot of these, apart from removing her climb. it gives her way more depth and fits in with her flank and duel play style. for suzu, i think what it does is fine, it just needs a higher cooldown like you said. again like you said 20-25 seconds would be fine. her swift step is fine, her ult is fine, but for her damage i see a lot of people say to remove her two shot. I personally believe that removing kirikos 2 shot is like removing winstons jump. her 2 shot not only takes good aim to hit, but also what allows her flank playstyle. kiriko was designed to flank liko winston was designed to dive. finally, one last thing i have to say is about her hp. i possibly think she would still be good at 175 hp, but this is only in an extreme case and if nothing else works that would drastically change her playstlyle . edit: oh yeah her hitbox is small because her physical size is small, she isn’t impossible to hit, just hard. deal with it edit 2: i hope blizzard do not listen to those annoying rein doom and genji mains saying “remove suzu immunity” bc that would essentially render her useless unless you pick her to counter another hero like ana or jq bc she would just be another healbot/damagebot like moira
Most people complain about this character, yet a quarter of you can actually hit the shots needed to be effective. The win rate across ALL ranks shows this.
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Kiriko can two tap half of the characters, has insane healing, one of the most powerful ults, one of the smallest if not the smallest head and body hit boxes, can wall climb, can make herself and her team immortal, can cleanse bleed, burn, anti, stun, and she can teleport out of a fight in a milisecond. She needs to be nuked out of the game
bros argument: you have to decide to 2 tap someone or make someone invulnerable, so she's good for the game???
Kiriko is the brig of OW 2.
Its like 2018 all over again.
IT CAME TO ME IN A DREAM: You saind "uncounterable" and I wondered if EMP could interrupt it and then it hit me. Tank Sombra.
Lore- She gets hit by a bus. Moira scoops out her brain and puts it in a 450hp omnic panther. She's a tank now. Has invis (automatic, 5ish second cooldown with fast application, takes time to decloak), "pounce" (winston leap with instant decloak), more or less the same gun, and an EMP grenade cooldown that shoots little EMPs (none of this damage debuff nonsense either, just a simple 3s lockout, no hp damage, maybe anti shield damage because it's cute). Ult is ???. A big charge up cone damage attack or something.
Sombra as a tank.... WIDE sombra.... hmmmm.... maybe sombra has a sister?
Im a Kiriko otp in gm, but even i think she needs a big nerf. I hope they only nerf her survivability and mby the damage tho. Just overall give her more risk. But i think removing her wall climb would be weird as that is the only skillbased survivability she has, she should just get less easy value and more risk manement.
yeah, removing anything movement based skill is bad for the game. her burst and RNG kunai is #1 problem, secondly add cooldown to teleport, 7second is a joke, and the teleport removes debuff too, thats so extra.
I love people who complain about anas abilities and cooldowns when you have things like kiriko. In a game where baiting cooldowns and keeping track of said cooldowns where actually important for winning teamfights now you have a do-it-all character like kiri whos entire gameplay consitsts tp to target
i think you are describing mercry........
yes, but i think the dps burst is just so unnecessary for her, she can literally do everything. and the wall climb is just icing on the cake.
if her dmg is tune down way more, that makes it better force her to do more healing and accidental spam kill, she is just a hanzo built-in bap but better, way better.
I'm not even going to watch the full video, just from the very first clip of quake trying to demonstrate how dooms ult is trash and will never be good to use aggressively, and this guy uses it as a "suzu rage counter" clip, bro you are so out of your mind if you think quake raged because of suzu, the suzu in that clip was the least of his worries there, man got stunned and deleted in a second on top of his ult doing absolutely nothing, the title itself is just a massive no, play different heroes and get your abilities cleansed all the time and see how fun and "good" it is for the game
Kiriko is not OP, but she has OP parts of her kit. Honestly, just remove the invulnerability and intangiblity from suzu and maybe make her swift step require LOS and then shes okay
so is she op or not?
You have clearly never played rein shattered 3 and watch them all get cleansed instantly, play some tank or damage your opinion will change pretty quick
what a braindead take, kiriko can choose to be great or be awesome, therefore good for game
If you’re a kiri main I wouldn’t be too worried about her being nerfed. It took blizzard 3 years to bring brig to a reasonable level even after the entire playerbase told blizzard she was broken on ptr.
You're wrong. And it's not a fad to hate her. Adding her was a mistake a year ago, as big a mistake as removing OW1. Your clickbait title isn't your real take; the title is really stupid and your take is okay.
A balanced take that isn't deep into hyperbole. Those are rare, brother!
We'll come back to this comment when you have 100k subs. In time. Mark my words.
this might be a hot take but i dont think immortality and anti heals should be abilities. with ow1 i felt alot of the time people would play lucio/zen for their defensive ults to counter things like shatter or grav and it kinda made sense a ult countering an ult but now with lamp and clease it feels less skillful and more just press your buttons.
I dont think anyone has complained about junkerqueens anti because how infrequent it is but ana is a different story.
I would like to see an experimental where they change:
lamp to instead of being a immortality to a reduced damage, or maybe like a increased healing affect like anas nade on friendlies, i dont think the whole immortality thing defines bap because he is a combat healer and as long as its a drone he throws
Ana nade to again maybe a reduce healing like the reverse effect to remove that frustration and in compensation you could lower the cooldown and overall numbers
i dont have and solid ideas for suzu but i feel like the ability is trying to be to much, its a clease/immortality and a burst heal and i think it could do with less
idk what to even say abt lifeweaver maybe this is just modern hero design but it all of these new abilitys make the game feel so arcady
I miss your videos so much bro
Her kunai is actually bigger than Zens, travels faster and does the same headshot damage with DISCORD APPLIED.
Nerf the hurtbox of the projectile down to Zen's orb size, nerf the headshot multiplier and buff the bodyshot damage. There shes fixed.
I disagree with this guy
so im high masters sometimes gm. my issue and most other dps players would agree its moreso being 2 tapped faster than i could do the same to her.
id like her projectile size nerfed down to match genji and hanzo. she can keep her lethality but make it actually difficult.
I realize i play a different game from most of the people who play this game so my perspective is skewed
Then the issue is how much of the playerbase just healbots on her and how this nerf would discourage more aggressive plays which is kinda necessary to really get value out of her. since there are a lot more of the healbot kirikos than duelist kirikos, blizzard looks at that negative winrate from the sheer amount of people in gold and silver being ofuda bots for 10 minutes.
Its why this cahracter keeps not only gets left alone but fucking buffed repeatedly. Then consider the marketing. she MOST DEFINETELY sells the most amount of skins maybe second to mercy. she has a huge audience of different playstyles and has permanently been meta since her inception. Shes the games cash cow and highlight generator. shes also makes bad players feel good about themselves. dont forget shes top tier coombait. blizzard didnt do this on accident, i think all of this is by design.
Yes Kiriko is good for the game as long as you remove all the parts that make her bad for the game.
What a nothing video.
She shluldnt be nuked to oblivion, be she sure as hell needs a nerf
TLDR : Nerf kiriko to incentivize more skillful play rather than just nerfing her into the ground
ok i'd like to give my take here i think kirikos kit is fine but its overtuned for sure even with the nerfs to suzu its still way too powerful and game changing for a 15 second cool down.
I think suzu's cooldown should be increased to somewhere around baps immortality field (around 25 seconds) and it should do around 50 healing with no cleanse and 80 with cleanse to make it less of a tempting cooldown to throw just for herself, since even baiting out suzu can be useless at times if a teamfight lasts a little too long I think these changes would make it a more valuable resource which would incentivize smarter play with it.
her kunai damage they should change to a flat 2x headshot damage since the amount of dps she can dish out can feel incredibly unfair at times (especially when she isnt even aiming at you but manages to hit you anyways)
an alternative could be to decrease the hitbox size of her kunai and keep damage as is since it would again incentivize skill and make accidental kills a little less common as well.
however the biggest thing i'd want them to change is her hurtbox size, hitting kiri is like trying to shoot a goddamn needle from 60 feet away so much so that pro players choose to aim at her feet rather than her torso or head since the hitbox is bigger there. its a really overlooked part of balance that i think would make kiri a lot easier to pick off and a lot less frustrating to deal with.
swift step i think is fine the main thing with it is that it takes them straight to a teammate which can make it more frustrating because she is just instantly tp'ing away back to safety i like the comparison to moira's fade but with fade you move a shorter distance and its not guaranteed that you will be able to make it back to your team so they're somewhat similar just different pros and cons.
moira's fade is faster and you can use it more frequently but safety is not guaranteed, swift step requires a teammate to be in a somewhat safe spot which in turn makes it slightly harder to use but safety is more of a given when using it and i don't really think that trade-off is that bad of a thing.
I feel removing teleport and giving her a bigger hitbox would be good - so that she has the same survivability as other highly impactful supports like Ana and Zenyatta.
The teleport is what makes the character fun to play and facilitates the point of the character being a flanker healer. A much better approach would be to make suzzu single target, not self usable, and reduce her healing. These abilities are functional but not fun, so you can easily balance the character without taking away her identity or play style.
ok, i love kiriko to bits so i may be a lil biased but i agree with a lot of these, apart from removing her climb. it gives her way more depth and fits in with her flank and duel play style. for suzu, i think what it does is fine, it just needs a higher cooldown like you said. again like you said 20-25 seconds would be fine. her swift step is fine, her ult is fine, but for her damage i see a lot of people say to remove her two shot. I personally believe that removing kirikos 2 shot is like removing winstons jump. her 2 shot not only takes good aim to hit, but also what allows her flank playstyle. kiriko was designed to flank liko winston was designed to dive. finally, one last thing i have to say is about her hp. i possibly think she would still be good at 175 hp, but this is only in an extreme case and if nothing else works that would drastically change her playstlyle .
edit: oh yeah her hitbox is small because her physical size is small, she isn’t impossible to hit, just hard. deal with it
edit 2: i hope blizzard do not listen to those annoying rein doom and genji mains saying “remove suzu immunity” bc that would essentially render her useless unless you pick her to counter another hero like ana or jq bc she would just be another healbot/damagebot like moira
she isnt even all that op... sombras invisability is even more broken
Imagine being this wrong
No no she broken
Most people complain about this character, yet a quarter of you can actually hit the shots needed to be effective. The win rate across ALL ranks shows this.
early