The Feds made it clear that they weren’t gonna help Baltimore City with their crime problem. Avon wasn’t getting the 10-Life from the Feds. And Marlo saw Avon at Jessup, a State prison, not a Federal prison. Avon was serving the remaining time of his 7yr sentence.
Like someone else said, he was serving his time in state prison and not federal. That means he didn't get those fed charges so yeah, dude is coming out in 4 years. He also wouldn't have sold out a massive connect like the Greeks for only a 100k when Marlo sold it for 100x that price unless he knew he was getting out eventually and the fact that Slim Charles is the new guy in charge means that he probably had to talk to Avon who would have had to vouch for him as well. He also basically killed all his competitors behind bars as Prop Joe is gone, Stringer is gone and Marlo is gone and forgotten which is insanely impressive all things considered.
Avon was on PAROLE and he violated it, so he’s doing 5 years MANDATORY there’s no getting out of that. Idk why the writers did that. I mean, 3 or so years have gone by so it’s likely he got transferred to the state prison to serve the remaining 2 years…
Avon got out & found the 7 dragon balls to bring Wallace back to life.. Then Avon took the Cutty route by opening his own gym & helped train Wallace to become a professional boxer.. Eventually they discovered Wallace was the son of Apollo Creed.. The rest is history lol
Avon respected the working man to a degree, minus the original witness they had killed. Somewhat similar to him taking Cuttty seriously and donating to the gym and respecting him for wanting him out of "the game". But then again, they killed a working man so still not a good move granted it was. a witness vs Marlo doing it just to do because the guy was doing his job.
That’s probably because he’s about to come home he probably got transferred to a state prison because he had to do the rest of his 5 years for violating his probation MANDATORY you’ll be surprised how much prisoners get moved around especially when they’re about to come home that’s likely why he’s in the staties and not the feds
Feels like String wanted an exit strategy and Avon never did - that was always the big difference for me. Avon saw his fate as inevitably prison or death, String never accepted that til maybe that one last moment before he was killed
String was a backstabbing dude , no one needs that. Just cause you want to buy real estate don't mean you can disrespect your crew and boss. Great actor though.
#1 everybody fate is death #2 stringer never once indicated about an exit strategy stringer was about laundering drug money he never once said we can come out the game like freamon said he'll be the bank n this ppl that up voted u clearly only watch the wire less than 5 times#3 he realized that while he was being conniving avon was 2 steps ahead noticed his face when Omar said your boy give u up so he knew his bs caught up with him. Avon was right without the rep u can't make the money in a lawless market space u can have all the product but no territory clearly marlo showed how stringer made no sense !!!!
@@KHLB516 I think that he was smart enough but he certainly wasn't educated enough or experienced enough. He was good at studying. If he wasn't so greedy and proud, he should have simply sold all of his assets in Baltimore, left Avon in charge and relocated far, far away from Baltimore. Perhaps even to another country. At least for a while. He should have invested the major part of his money into some good real estate where he lived himself and then continued with his college studies. He should have gotten himself a wife and kids. After college graduation from some business school, he should have applied to work with economics in a company.
Stringer Bell and James St. Patrick (Ghost) were both always on the fence between being legit and staying a criminal and you see what happened to both of them. There is a reason Avon Barksdale & Tomny Egan didn't die lol. Question. Which was more ruthless Chris Partlow or Kanan Stark?
@@Mr.Majestic77 James st Patrick had give up the game totally so thag comparison its not valid stringer was never straddling the fence he was just just drug dealer laundering his money basically never heard stringer said once about giving up the game all he wanted to do was isolate himself from the day to day operations just wanted as inverst get a return basically
That's the first time anyone I've heard made a comparison with the security guard. I know folks must have talked about it, but you're right. Avon may have clowned him a little but would have respected him for standing up. The guard even told Marlo he wasn't trying to disrespect him, Avon would've probably hired him to protect a stash or something lower level to further test him. As for his remaining years, at the very least you can look to actual Baltimore statutes for time given to narcotics violators at that time. If Avon was playing the long game and setting up Marlo for failure, they didn't show Slim visiting Avon in jail at the end of the mantage like you said. If he got out, I'd like to think Slim would just regard him as an authority figure, like how Tony went to Junior for advice. I think Avon would've spent the time trying to reconnect and gain forgiveness from his sister. If he remains in jail, he's already the king there, having halted a baseball game until he cleared the field. Two ruthless killers in his camp and the respect of the inmates and guards. Whoever is in the game will eventually end up there and if they were doing short time, Avon could influence them.
I love the way his mind works and how he shares his insights on these characters. I’m glad you’ve found a podcast you enjoy I might have to check it out too thanks for the recommendation.
"You're a master of your actions but a slave to your word" was a piece of advice I was taught years ago. In the context of the showrunners on the wire keeping things vague they are ensuring that they are not tied down by expectations of the audience. So keeping their plans for the show mysterious allows them the freedom to take the show in any direction. You see this with video games and movie trailers too. Show just enough to Garner interest but not so much as to give away all the secrets. And release dates are reluctantly announced because announcing a date and having it miss the date will only upset the fan base. It's best to keep things in a "to be determined" state for as long as possible so that expectations do not act against you.
I was glad that you brought up that line. "What I tell you bout playin those fuckin away games" that was always a line I loved so much and never gets talked about like the other great quotes.. it also just comes in one of my favorite scenes as well. With the other great line "they saw yo ghetto ass comin from MIIILES away" that one always gets me
The wire could have easily run another season where they would have shown how the prison become the center of the crime outside, with Avon fighting for and running the inside, just to be the kingmaker for the outside.
@@mgee1723 What they did was merely hinting at the fact and one maybe two scenes to showcase that. It would have made only sense then of course. At least if you it was build around Avon.
This channel is amazing - each of the vids on the Wire going into some of the different aspects is exactly what I was looking for after finishing this masterpiece of a show. Keep doing you! :)
My take is that the writers didn’t elaborate on how much additional time Avon got when he was arrested in season 3 because Avon was done. He had nothing left to speak of. Stringer was dead, Marlo was (at the time) an unstoppable force, and even if Avon only served the remainder of his original sentence, most of his former soldiers were dead or out of the game (like Poot). In short, it just didn’t matter. Avon was down for good.
I think he only had to finish his 7 years, but the game is the game. So when he got out he would get with Slim Charles, who had access to the Greeks, and there's always new soldiers to be recruited. The game continues with some new soldiers
@@PrimeHandlez because Avon looked out for him, like when Stringer wanted Clay Davis assassinated. And Slim was a loyal enforcer and when Stringer wanted Davis killed, the guy at the door didn't respect Stringer, he waited for Slim to give the okay, so it was almost like Slim became Avon's 2nd in command. And Slim was loyal to Avon and then Prop Joe, and really didn't try to be a king pen, just 2nd or 3rd in command, in the background. But whatever, that's my take on it, could be wrong I am human
@@idkwhodidthis2990 I'm with you. I mean, we're speculating on a fictional story, but the way it was written, it would be consistent for Slim to stay loyal like that, and "the king stay the king." Something people people didn't seem to glean from the show - and it happens more or less this way IRL, too - is that being locked up is not the "closed system" it is presented to be. Things get in and things get out, information, orders, contraband. money. "There's a plan on the inside, there's a plan on the outside."
@@MarcillaSmith thanks, plus you added a great reasoning as to why what I said could be true. How many true crime shows have covered "kings" running things from jail/prison, like hits and other things? Your response further explained what I was saying without me writing a page long explanation, lol. Thanks again.
Just found this RUclips channel and I’m hype af. Finally, someone doing some real deep dives on these specific topics and questions that we’ve all been wondering. That’s how you KNOW The Wire is one of the GOAT’s. The story is still so capturing
Avon was going to do the rest of that 7 no matter what and when he eventually got out he was set for life. Stringer put a lot of clean business and real estate properties in his and Avon's name(B&B Properties) as Prez told Freeman, Stringer is worse than a drug dealer he's a developer. No matter what Clay Davis did to Stringer the owner of all that real estate Was Avon & Stringer. After Stringers death Avon had an epiphany about all of it with the talk with Slim Charles. He just sold out his brother for the game and he's saying fuck all of this
Unbeknownst to Avon, Stringer sold out his brother as well for the proposition Joe package. Stringer is the reason Avon went to war with Marlo to begin with.
I love the quotes that are woven into these videos. It's like a nod to everyone who's seen The Wire 100 times (I honestly think it's getting close, 2 years ago I watched the wire 1-5 around 20 times in a row. As soon as I finished it, I started it again. Only other thing I've done this with is The Sopranos) it makes you feel like you a part of some deeper understanding of the subject. Or maybe that's just my narcissism again
David Simon confirmed it in interviews with Alan sepinwall. It's definitely worth reading his reviews and summaries of the episodes, some of which he has published in books subsequently
No Marlo No Game. One of my favorite lines in the series. Avon understood there was always going to be guys like Marlo who want the crown and will do anything to get to the top.
Y’all weren’t paying attention. Avon is only serving two days: The first day he comes into jail; and the day he finally leaves - one way or another! The rest of the time is called “dead time”. The whole world outside of prison/jail house iwalls moves on and changes. And in spite of all you try to do; you just stay the same…if you’re strong and lucky. If you got anybody in “the belly of the beast” put some money on their commissary; accept their collect calls; write them; visit, and - no matter how cute they are - DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH THEIR HUSBANDS OR WIVES!!!!
I always figured that he got the VOP (4-5 years) and they probably managed to hit him with an additional charge or two that gave em 3-15 years (iirc if an inmate stays outta trouble they get somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 days per month of good time too, so they can end up only serving about 2/3 of a sentence and parole early I think), probably running concurrent. Long enough that he'd settle in and probably come off the connect if for no other reason than cash flow (a connect and no muscle is worthless) but not necessarily take him out forever. The show is known for not giving the characters what they want and showing the lack of justice, the cops all want Avon down forever but in just not sure he'd get it given how little they had on him more than likely. But that could just be wishful thinking lol
Given what we were shown I believe it is no stretch at all to see Chris joining Weebay in supporting Avon as a locked-down kingpin. Chris respects honor and what is essentially right. Weebay was born to the game. Avon is a hell of a snaky, charismatic leader. Chris getting locked up was a boon for Avon.
Even Snoop's fall to the streets makes sense in the context. She would have been adrift had she been locked down, she'd have been consigned to a different world from them.
Avon case could not have gone federal just solely off a 'conspiracy to murder' that’s not a federal charge. However, the FEDS still could have charged him for being in a room with all those weapons. High power machine guns and a grenade would almost ensure him 20+ years. Even if his underboss “took the charge” the FEDS have a “constructive possession” statute, meaning Avon can still be responsible even if he didn’t have actual possession. To sum it up, the FEDS would have def took the case over based on the weapons alone and Avon most likely got the 25, which would begin after the remainder of his state charges around 2009.
Dope analysis as always Cine. Im not sure how many years Avon ended up doing, but I will say this, if Avon was trying to set things up with Slim Charles for when he was released, why did Slim buy the connect off Marlo instead of going to Avon? That decision by Slim is questionable imo. Why go to Marlo for $10mil instead of Avon for maybe a few hundred thousand? Anyways keep up the great work!
The Wire is my favorite but IMO either answer is acceptable. Along with The Wire, The Sopranos is the greatest show. It's like Goodfellas VS Casino. Or Pac VS Big. There is no wrong answer. However if someone picks any other show outside of these two I have to question his character.
@@gioluvs1893 good answer. I agree on PAC v Big . . . BUT I have to say that Goodfellas is superior to Casino. It’s not that Casino isn’t great . . . but it’s definitely just one step below Goodfellas as a movie in my opinion 🤷🏽♂️
@@gioluvs1893 exactly. It’s a classic. Scorsese is so amazing that Casino as great as it is isn’t one of his elite very elite movies. Any other filmmaker would BEG for that movie on their filmography.
What most likely happened is that he had to do the remaining years as a parole violation and also received another parole violation charge of being around weapons as a convicted felon so he probably had to do a few more years on top of the 5 but not life so probably around 10 or so.
As to who was right out of Avon or Stringer, I would say normally it would be Stringer. His way would keep the bodies down and by extension keep the police away. However in this particular scenario, Avon was correct by virtue of the Barksdale organization being the strongest. When you are stronger then the rest you don't agree to quite as much power sharing. The second nuance concerns Avon being locked up. Had he not been locked up and his instinct guided them the entire time, Marlo would have never became a threat; Avon would have stamped him out real quick. Marlo was right that right after Avon got out of prison he was weak, but he was weak because of the decisions Stringer made. When you are the king people are going to come for you, and Stringer did not account for this beforehand. Stringer is educated and intelligent, he should have known that "in times of peace, prepare for war"
I think he was only doing the remainder of his parole violation, as 1) in the later episode Avon is wearing in the same visiting room a state prison uniform and not a federal one and for such a long sentence McNulty said they would have to go federal especially considering the grenade, and 2) Avon at most would be charged with possession of the weapons as it would be Stringer's hearsay that he intended to kill anyone, the police in his second arrest did not video/audio record any statements from him
Hello, CineRanter. I would be super interested in seeing your take on the hinted at, but never really explained, relationship between McNulty and Phelan. Man, would that be an awesome new year's gift.
Imagine a season where players and characters were placed in the prison system…as we know the wire was great for touching on different sides of the game…. With prison being just as important as the outside…. Avon as a side character there would b powerful….. I loved the wire and thx for this video
I always thaught that, since Avon was in prison, for a while now, he didn't have his buissness as much as he used to, and his constant contact with regular street criminals, actually put him closer to the street, which re-aligned his identity as a "Westside Nigga" more than "Barksdale from the Terrace". So, it's not about "Me and him" (Avon and Marlo) but more about "Us and Them" (Westside and Eastside). Also, I think, since Avon was retired, he went with his heart, rather than the buissness aspect of things. And in general Avon had much more respect for Marlo than Prop Joe, and you can see from this scene, even though the two are very different people, they have alot more in common, than Avon has with Prop Joe. Marlo doesn't say much, and Avon mostly has control over the conversation, but when they are done with buissness, Avon asks "what's up with you otherwise" - "the game is the game", - "always" : This small seconds long exchange communicates so much, the ganster lifestile, the playing of the game, the burden of leadership, the risk of losing one's life when they are ontop of the world, the making of the fast money... And such an exchange Avon can have only with Marlo.
Stringer was right. You treat it like a business. Just like the Greeks are always about business. But where they’re both wrong is they’re views on working with the authorities. The Greeks can’t do what they do without higher help. The Wire is a great show for many reasons, one being we see glimpses of who could have or will become what and what it takes to reach that next level and thrive. In some cases survive. It’s not the game that changes it’s the players. Stringer had the right strategy but was playing on the wrong level. That business strategy can only work for so long on the street level. Right idea if they planed to move beyond that. Compare also to how many people both he and Avon have killed compared to the Greeks who have far more to lose. Murder is calculated business move for the Greeks, standard for the Barksdales. On the street, names matter but move past that a name gets you in trouble. So a name is only worth so much. Look what Marlo went through to secure his name.
How do you control a man who has absolutely ZERO fear of going to prison? What about prisoners from Russia, Costa Rica, Moldova, Indonesia etc where being in prison is better than being free in those countries. Avon can get everything in prison including females to perform one of the most natural functions man and woman can participate in. It’s a scary thought. The drug trade will never end and this is one of the biggest reasons why.
In my strong opinion, it wasn't that the security guard tried to correct Marlo, as Marlo knew what he was doing by shoplifting. The security guard's mistake was when he "stepped to" Marlo and judged him saying " I know what you are..". No one wants to hear that.
true but I think it was a mirror of when Avon stepped to the referee, Avon even wanted the referee to stand tall, while Marlo killed the guard for standing tall, I think that was one of the points of the show, the next generation keeps getting worse
@@RetroVideoGamer23 I get that, but the guard didn't just "stand tall". He verbally judged Marlo, where as the game referee knew about Avon and judged him but just changed his behavior in fear of him. I think if the guard had been professional and treated Marlo like any other customer, it wouldn't have been killed.
If HBO were to do a contuation of the show in the near future, they would be able to incorporate avon in and haveit it to where he's near getting out, or just recently got out. Enough time has passed and bills/laws have also changed to where it could be believable to the viewer
He did 10 years in prison. Got out in 2015.Where Avon open a candy store. Still doing his thing on the low , collecting his paper on the westside of B-More.
If Dave Simon does a Season 6 of The Wire, I would love to see Avon have a Frank Lucas/Al Pacino in Carlito's Way kind of "Take back his empire" kind of path. I know the deacon that interacts with Colvin is who Avon was based on in the real life gentleman's younger days. I could see Avon coming out as a "Cuddy" type character but fuck all of that! I want Avon to walk out of prison, get picked up by his sister, meet up with Slim Charles, sharpen his murder skills at a gun range, and start taking back the Westside block by block from whoever is running it.
Even if Avon had to just do the remaining five, he was essentially done. Like Marlo, he’s probably going to be under a microscope for the rest of his days.
This is correct about the 7 years we don't know for sure if they were able to prosecute further. It's worth noting that stringer died. I don't know how well that CI would have held up in court.
@@seanmcmillon7512 Right I'm sure they tried to charge him beyond the parole violation but will never know if it was successful. He obviously had great legal representation and the CI that gave them information was dead. I think the most likely scenario is he had to finish the 7 years and maybe a little bit further but no guarantee
McNulty said we can't get you for these guns but you will do every day of what's left of your 7. So Avon was never going to do anything over or less than what was left of his original sentence
As loyal as Slim Charles might have been, I don't see why he'd let Avon take over if he got back on the streets. Slim Charles hadn't taken over Avon's organization. He was a hired gun who went to work for someone else after working for Avon. As to Avon's jail time, everything about the scene with him selling the connect to Marlo always made me think he'd gotten another longer sentence than what he'd received in season one.
A great example of the away game is when Stringer tells people that the cell phone business is doomed because of market saturation. It's a throw-away funny line given what we know about the mobile phone industry, but it really shows that he's out of his depth.
I don’t know if he was “under protection “ I just think with everything basically over between Marlo/Avon Chris and WB had a mutual respect they knew it was business plus what was Chris gonna do ? Leave the whole prison population in a vacant lol .. ain’t no guns in prison .. not saying Chris couldn’t fight but it was in his best interest to play nice .. in my opinion anyway
it still kills me when they were so close to taking out marlo but didnt
For real. Don’t get why Slim didn’t just take him out at the rim shop instead of waiting for the phone call.
@@WireWarriorFan because you know plot
In real life they would have just hit em. They would have took their chance and sprayed that whole place
They just couldn't lock that door yo.
Yeap he had the chance of getting marlo Chris and snoop
He's doing two days.... Day the he went in and the day he gets out
😂😂😂😂😂💯💯
The Feds made it clear that they weren’t gonna help Baltimore City with their crime problem. Avon wasn’t getting the 10-Life from the Feds. And Marlo saw Avon at Jessup, a State prison, not a Federal prison. Avon was serving the remaining time of his 7yr sentence.
Good point
Like someone else said, he was serving his time in state prison and not federal. That means he didn't get those fed charges so yeah, dude is coming out in 4 years. He also wouldn't have sold out a massive connect like the Greeks for only a 100k when Marlo sold it for 100x that price unless he knew he was getting out eventually and the fact that Slim Charles is the new guy in charge means that he probably had to talk to Avon who would have had to vouch for him as well. He also basically killed all his competitors behind bars as Prop Joe is gone, Stringer is gone and Marlo is gone and forgotten which is insanely impressive all things considered.
Avon was on PAROLE and he violated it, so he’s doing 5 years MANDATORY there’s no getting out of that. Idk why the writers did that. I mean, 3 or so years have gone by so it’s likely he got transferred to the state prison to serve the remaining 2 years…
Avon got out & found the 7 dragon balls to bring Wallace back to life.. Then Avon took the Cutty route by opening his own gym & helped train Wallace to become a professional boxer.. Eventually they discovered Wallace was the son of Apollo Creed.. The rest is history lol
Wasn't he a trainer in the first creed ??
@@primitiveminds lmaoooo yeah
🌋
😂😂😂😂😂
The guy who Cutty is based on trains Gervonta Tank Davis in real life rn
Avon never would have shoplifted a freakin lollipop in the first place so he wouldn't have had any interaction with the security guard.
U said but in a wild way laughin crazy
Avon respected the working man to a degree, minus the original witness they had killed. Somewhat similar to him taking Cuttty seriously and donating to the gym and respecting him for wanting him out of "the game". But then again, they killed a working man so still not a good move granted it was. a witness vs Marlo doing it just to do because the guy was doing his job.
7 years ??? 7 years ....WTF
some guy named phil did 20 fuckin years
One thing that I think a lot of ppl miss is that he’s housed in a state prison and not a federal one, therefore he didn’t get that federal sentencing!
Ooooooh shit! Damn, didn't even notice that, thanks!
He had to finish his original 5 year sentence first
That’s probably because he’s about to come home he probably got transferred to a state prison because he had to do the rest of his 5 years for violating his probation MANDATORY you’ll be surprised how much prisoners get moved around especially when they’re about to come home that’s likely why he’s in the staties and not the feds
Could be waiting for transfer
@@jordanflores5687The feds wanted no parts of drugs he didn’t get fed time.
Feels like String wanted an exit strategy and Avon never did - that was always the big difference for me. Avon saw his fate as inevitably prison or death, String never accepted that til maybe that one last moment before he was killed
String was a backstabbing dude , no one needs that. Just cause you want to buy real estate don't mean you can disrespect your crew and boss. Great actor though.
#1 everybody fate is death #2 stringer never once indicated about an exit strategy stringer was about laundering drug money he never once said we can come out the game like freamon said he'll be the bank n this ppl that up voted u clearly only watch the wire less than 5 times#3 he realized that while he was being conniving avon was 2 steps ahead noticed his face when Omar said your boy give u up so he knew his bs caught up with him. Avon was right without the rep u can't make the money in a lawless market space u can have all the product but no territory clearly marlo showed how stringer made no sense !!!!
@@KHLB516 I think that he was smart enough but he certainly wasn't educated enough or experienced enough. He was good at studying. If he wasn't so greedy and proud, he should have simply sold all of his assets in Baltimore, left Avon in charge and relocated far, far away from Baltimore. Perhaps even to another country. At least for a while. He should have invested the major part of his money into some good real estate where he lived himself and then continued with his college studies. He should have gotten himself a wife and kids. After college graduation from some business school, he should have applied to work with economics in a company.
Stringer Bell and James St. Patrick (Ghost) were both always on the fence between being legit and staying a criminal and you see what happened to both of them.
There is a reason Avon Barksdale & Tomny Egan didn't die lol.
Question. Which was more ruthless Chris Partlow or Kanan Stark?
@@Mr.Majestic77 James st Patrick had give up the game totally so thag comparison its not valid stringer was never straddling the fence he was just just drug dealer laundering his money basically never heard stringer said once about giving up the game all he wanted to do was isolate himself from the day to day operations just wanted as inverst get a return basically
That's the first time anyone I've heard made a comparison with the security guard. I know folks must have talked about it, but you're right. Avon may have clowned him a little but would have respected him for standing up. The guard even told Marlo he wasn't trying to disrespect him, Avon would've probably hired him to protect a stash or something lower level to further test him. As for his remaining years, at the very least you can look to actual Baltimore statutes for time given to narcotics violators at that time. If Avon was playing the long game and setting up Marlo for failure, they didn't show Slim visiting Avon in jail at the end of the mantage like you said. If he got out, I'd like to think Slim would just regard him as an authority figure, like how Tony went to Junior for advice. I think Avon would've spent the time trying to reconnect and gain forgiveness from his sister. If he remains in jail, he's already the king there, having halted a baseball game until he cleared the field. Two ruthless killers in his camp and the respect of the inmates and guards. Whoever is in the game will eventually end up there and if they were doing short time, Avon could influence them.
Your complex analysis of this show has deepened my enjoyment of it and makes me want to watch the whole thing (yet again),
Sorry a man's world podcast gives better analysis I just watch anything wire related that's why he never got the subscription from me
@@primitiveminds Who made you sorry?
@@mbryson2899 cause ididn't want be perceived as a hater
I love the way his mind works and how he shares his insights on these characters. I’m glad you’ve found a podcast you enjoy I might have to check it out too thanks for the recommendation.
@@Heyitskrystal trust n believe check it out you'll just go to him for filler content...do u enjoy interracial?
'He's just a gangster, I suppose.'
I see what you did there.
But you should've followed that up with, 'And he wants his corners.'
🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 That caught me off guard
💯💯
I knew by the look on his face.And that seen avon knew he was done😢
"You're a master of your actions but a slave to your word" was a piece of advice I was taught years ago. In the context of the showrunners on the wire keeping things vague they are ensuring that they are not tied down by expectations of the audience. So keeping their plans for the show mysterious allows them the freedom to take the show in any direction.
You see this with video games and movie trailers too. Show just enough to Garner interest but not so much as to give away all the secrets. And release dates are reluctantly announced because announcing a date and having it miss the date will only upset the fan base. It's best to keep things in a "to be determined" state for as long as possible so that expectations do not act against you.
It’s kinda like the Sopranos where we never found out how many years Phil Leotardo did in the can.
And how many times he had to compromise
Stringer runs on ideals. Avon knows the world he’s in.
ideals - that word does not sit right with me, thinking about Stringer. ;) But I know what you mean.
I was glad that you brought up that line. "What I tell you bout playin those fuckin away games" that was always a line I loved so much and never gets talked about like the other great quotes.. it also just comes in one of my favorite scenes as well. With the other great line "they saw yo ghetto ass comin from MIIILES away" that one always gets me
They didn't get him on murder at all. The other guy claimed all the guns. He just got a parole violation so he got like 7
The wire could have easily run another season where they would have shown how the prison become the center of the crime outside, with Avon fighting for and running the inside, just to be the kingmaker for the outside.
That would have been badass
Hbo shut it down and only gave them 10 episodes to finish it.
It was almost cancelled after se 2 and after se3
That was already season 2 and 3. Avons storyline was over
@@mgee1723 What they did was merely hinting at the fact and one maybe two scenes to showcase that. It would have made only sense then of course. At least if you it was build around Avon.
This channel is amazing - each of the vids on the Wire going into some of the different aspects is exactly what I was looking for after finishing this masterpiece of a show. Keep doing you! :)
My take is that the writers didn’t elaborate on how much additional time Avon got when he was arrested in season 3 because Avon was done. He had nothing left to speak of. Stringer was dead, Marlo was (at the time) an unstoppable force, and even if Avon only served the remainder of his original sentence, most of his former soldiers were dead or out of the game (like Poot). In short, it just didn’t matter. Avon was down for good.
I think he only had to finish his 7 years, but the game is the game. So when he got out he would get with Slim Charles, who had access to the Greeks, and there's always new soldiers to be recruited. The game continues with some new soldiers
@@idkwhodidthis2990 what makes u think slim Charles is gone look out for avon
@@PrimeHandlez because Avon looked out for him, like when Stringer wanted Clay Davis assassinated. And Slim was a loyal enforcer and when Stringer wanted Davis killed, the guy at the door didn't respect Stringer, he waited for Slim to give the okay, so it was almost like Slim became Avon's 2nd in command. And Slim was loyal to Avon and then Prop Joe, and really didn't try to be a king pen, just 2nd or 3rd in command, in the background. But whatever, that's my take on it, could be wrong I am human
@@idkwhodidthis2990 I'm with you. I mean, we're speculating on a fictional story, but the way it was written, it would be consistent for Slim to stay loyal like that, and "the king stay the king." Something people people didn't seem to glean from the show - and it happens more or less this way IRL, too - is that being locked up is not the "closed system" it is presented to be. Things get in and things get out, information, orders, contraband. money. "There's a plan on the inside, there's a plan on the outside."
@@MarcillaSmith thanks, plus you added a great reasoning as to why what I said could be true. How many true crime shows have covered "kings" running things from jail/prison, like hits and other things? Your response further explained what I was saying without me writing a page long explanation, lol. Thanks again.
Just found this RUclips channel and I’m hype af. Finally, someone doing some real deep dives on these specific topics and questions that we’ve all been wondering. That’s how you KNOW The Wire is one of the GOAT’s. The story is still so capturing
Avon was going to do the rest of that 7 no matter what and when he eventually got out he was set for life. Stringer put a lot of clean business and real estate properties in his and Avon's name(B&B Properties) as Prez told Freeman, Stringer is worse than a drug dealer he's a developer. No matter what Clay Davis did to Stringer the owner of all that real estate Was Avon & Stringer.
After Stringers death Avon had an epiphany about all of it with the talk with Slim Charles. He just sold out his brother for the game and he's saying fuck all of this
Unbeknownst to Avon, Stringer sold out his brother as well for the proposition Joe package. Stringer is the reason Avon went to war with Marlo to begin with.
Both were right at some point but the timing was wrong
And there's always going to be a Marlo, no Marlo no game.
A wire prequel series could be some fire shet!! Show how the main characters got to their position!!
I love the quotes that are woven into these videos. It's like a nod to everyone who's seen The Wire 100 times (I honestly think it's getting close, 2 years ago I watched the wire 1-5 around 20 times in a row. As soon as I finished it, I started it again. Only other thing I've done this with is The Sopranos) it makes you feel like you a part of some deeper understanding of the subject.
Or maybe that's just my narcissism again
lmfaooo same, The Wire and The Sopranos are goated for me
@@talemuweke9036 can't forget about oz
Also when String snitches and gives Colvin the address of the war spot, Colvin tells stringer that, 'it's going to be a nickel, at least'
Long as I’ve been watching the Wire, I’ve never heard that Cheese/Randy fact before. That’s crazy to me
David Simon confirmed it in interviews with Alan sepinwall. It's definitely worth reading his reviews and summaries of the episodes, some of which he has published in books subsequently
“The King, Stay The King.”
The Wire could easily be revived for at least 3 to 4 more seasons.
Also, Oz could as well.
Oz is top 5 shows of all time I put wire in top 2
Yep Avon was right. I originally assumed Stringer was correct, but Avon knew a beast like Marlo would come along and see all the Co-op guys as marks.
No Marlo No Game. One of my favorite lines in the series. Avon understood there was always going to be guys like Marlo who want the crown and will do anything to get to the top.
Good shit man.
Ill watch every video you do about this show.
There is no question. Avon was 100% right.
Y’all weren’t paying attention. Avon is only serving two days: The first day he comes into jail; and the day he finally leaves - one way or another!
The rest of the time is called “dead time”. The whole world outside of prison/jail house iwalls moves on and changes. And in spite of all you try to do; you just stay the same…if you’re strong and lucky. If you got anybody in “the belly of the beast” put some money on their commissary; accept their collect calls; write them; visit, and - no matter how cute they are - DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH THEIR HUSBANDS OR WIVES!!!!
I always figured that he got the VOP (4-5 years) and they probably managed to hit him with an additional charge or two that gave em 3-15 years (iirc if an inmate stays outta trouble they get somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 days per month of good time too, so they can end up only serving about 2/3 of a sentence and parole early I think), probably running concurrent. Long enough that he'd settle in and probably come off the connect if for no other reason than cash flow (a connect and no muscle is worthless) but not necessarily take him out forever. The show is known for not giving the characters what they want and showing the lack of justice, the cops all want Avon down forever but in just not sure he'd get it given how little they had on him more than likely. But that could just be wishful thinking lol
It’s actually funny that Randy was a rat and his dad’s name was cheese😅
Given what we were shown I believe it is no stretch at all to see Chris joining Weebay in supporting Avon as a locked-down kingpin. Chris respects honor and what is essentially right. Weebay was born to the game. Avon is a hell of a snaky, charismatic leader.
Chris getting locked up was a boon for Avon.
Even Snoop's fall to the streets makes sense in the context. She would have been adrift had she been locked down, she'd have been consigned to a different world from them.
It's because they all from the Westside
Avon case could not have gone federal just solely off a 'conspiracy to murder' that’s not a federal charge. However, the FEDS still could have charged him for being in a room with all those weapons. High power machine guns and a grenade would almost ensure him 20+ years. Even if his underboss “took the charge” the FEDS have a “constructive possession” statute, meaning Avon can still be responsible even if he didn’t have actual possession. To sum it up, the FEDS would have def took the case over based on the weapons alone and Avon most likely got the 25, which would begin after the remainder of his state charges around 2009.
We love cineranter in this household
Avon's sentencing vagueness plot hole, might be considered as a reverse "Easter Egg", as the cool kids say.
the wire is the greatest series of all time
You read my recent mind. This exact topic
Another brilliant video!
6:09 'may or may not have a law degree' 🤣
Avon was still in a state prison when he meets Marlo. If he would have been charged with a federal crime he would be in federal prison.
Dope analysis as always Cine. Im not sure how many years Avon ended up doing, but I will say this, if Avon was trying to set things up with Slim Charles for when he was released, why did Slim buy the connect off Marlo instead of going to Avon? That decision by Slim is questionable imo. Why go to Marlo for $10mil instead of Avon for maybe a few hundred thousand? Anyways keep up the great work!
Boodie even said Marlo killed for no reason when he didn't have to. Marlo had no code whereas Avon did.
Avon had the woman killed when 'cleaning up' even when she committed perjury for D's benefit. It's one thing killing Little Man.
By Marlo having to talk to Avon for a line to the connect. I'd say he only got a violation.
The Wire is the greatest TV series ever . . . yes better than The Soprano’s . . . I said it.
The Wire is my favorite but IMO either answer is acceptable. Along with The Wire, The Sopranos is the greatest show. It's like Goodfellas VS Casino. Or Pac VS Big. There is no wrong answer. However if someone picks any other show outside of these two I have to question his character.
@@gioluvs1893 good answer. I agree on PAC v Big . . . BUT I have to say that Goodfellas is superior to Casino. It’s not that Casino isn’t great . . . but it’s definitely just one step below Goodfellas as a movie in my opinion 🤷🏽♂️
@@lennoxmate4064 I agree. Goodfellas all the way. But neither one of us will knock the dude who says Casino because Casino is fuckin top notch.
@@gioluvs1893 exactly. It’s a classic. Scorsese is so amazing that Casino as great as it is isn’t one of his elite very elite movies. Any other filmmaker would BEG for that movie on their filmography.
@@lennoxmate4064 FACTS!
I thought the setup of the prison guard got him a deal, for less than the seven?
It’s the same plot as ‘Sicario.’ Removing Avon created a void that got filled by chaos and violence.
They never brought up the FED charges to my recollection so I think he just had to finish out the state time
Avon was a man with a country. He bleeds red.
What most likely happened is that he had to do the remaining years as a parole violation and also received another parole violation charge of being around weapons as a convicted felon so he probably had to do a few more years on top of the 5 but not life so probably around 10 or so.
I would watch a continuation of the wire without question. Especially if they bring back all the old players they left hanging on a cliff
I’ve watched so many of your videos man, and I was today years old when I noticed I hadn’t subbed lol.
There’s definitely a hint of bias whenever Marlo is compared to Avon. 😊
Avon is just as horrible, just as happy to murder, just has better PR. Even Marlo doesnt kill witnesses.
The King stays the King.
It’s only two days. The day you go in and the day you get out.
One of my homies looks exactly like Avon...so much so even his family would joke about it.
He didn't get Federal time because he was still in Jessop State Pen.
"He is shown to have a code and a measure of integrity." Said over a still of Avon sliding his hand down the front of his trousers.
As to who was right out of Avon or Stringer, I would say normally it would be Stringer. His way would keep the bodies down and by extension keep the police away. However in this particular scenario, Avon was correct by virtue of the Barksdale organization being the strongest. When you are stronger then the rest you don't agree to quite as much power sharing. The second nuance concerns Avon being locked up. Had he not been locked up and his instinct guided them the entire time, Marlo would have never became a threat; Avon would have stamped him out real quick. Marlo was right that right after Avon got out of prison he was weak, but he was weak because of the decisions Stringer made. When you are the king people are going to come for you, and Stringer did not account for this beforehand.
Stringer is educated and intelligent, he should have known that "in times of peace, prepare for war"
this intro always makes me smile
I think he was only doing the remainder of his parole violation, as 1) in the later episode Avon is wearing in the same visiting room a state prison uniform and not a federal one and for such a long sentence McNulty said they would have to go federal especially considering the grenade, and 2) Avon at most would be charged with possession of the weapons as it would be Stringer's hearsay that he intended to kill anyone, the police in his second arrest did not video/audio record any statements from him
Hello, CineRanter. I would be super interested in seeing your take on the hinted at, but never really explained, relationship between McNulty and Phelan. Man, would that be an awesome new year's gift.
Imagine a season where players and characters were placed in the prison system…as we know the wire was great for touching on different sides of the game…. With prison being just as important as the outside…. Avon as a side character there would b powerful….. I loved the wire and thx for this video
I always thaught that, since Avon was in prison, for a while now, he didn't have his buissness as much as he used to, and his constant contact with regular street criminals, actually put him closer to the street, which re-aligned his identity as a "Westside Nigga" more than "Barksdale from the Terrace". So, it's not about "Me and him" (Avon and Marlo) but more about "Us and Them" (Westside and Eastside).
Also, I think, since Avon was retired, he went with his heart, rather than the buissness aspect of things. And in general Avon had much more respect for Marlo than Prop Joe, and you can see from this scene, even though the two are very different people, they have alot more in common, than Avon has with Prop Joe. Marlo doesn't say much, and Avon mostly has control over the conversation, but when they are done with buissness, Avon asks "what's up with you otherwise" - "the game is the game", - "always" : This small seconds long exchange communicates so much, the ganster lifestile, the playing of the game, the burden of leadership, the risk of losing one's life when they are ontop of the world, the making of the fast money... And such an exchange Avon can have only with Marlo.
Daily reminder that Cheese is Randy's father
Is the series available now? I surely miss it.
HBO MAX
100 geez wasn't enough, Avon should've hit him up for a million at the minimum
I always wanted the Feds to come to Avon and offer a deal to snitch on the politicians
I was thinking about it maybe they need to do a new season of the wire that would be fire
Marlo is the real man though... we was at least being a gentleman for the moment.
Stringer was right. You treat it like a business. Just like the Greeks are always about business. But where they’re both wrong is they’re views on working with the authorities. The Greeks can’t do what they do without higher help. The Wire is a great show for many reasons, one being we see glimpses of who could have or will become what and what it takes to reach that next level and thrive. In some cases survive. It’s not the game that changes it’s the players. Stringer had the right strategy but was playing on the wrong level. That business strategy can only work for so long on the street level. Right idea if they planed to move beyond that. Compare also to how many people both he and Avon have killed compared to the Greeks who have far more to lose. Murder is calculated business move for the Greeks, standard for the Barksdales. On the street, names matter but move past that a name gets you in trouble. So a name is only worth so much. Look what Marlo went through to secure his name.
How do you control a man who has absolutely ZERO fear of going to prison?
What about prisoners from Russia, Costa Rica, Moldova, Indonesia etc where being in prison is better than being free in those countries.
Avon can get everything in prison including females to perform one of the most natural functions man and woman can participate in.
It’s a scary thought. The drug trade will never end and this is one of the biggest reasons why.
In my strong opinion, it wasn't that the security guard tried to correct Marlo, as Marlo knew what he was doing by shoplifting. The security guard's mistake was when he "stepped to" Marlo and judged him saying " I know what you are..". No one wants to hear that.
true but I think it was a mirror of when Avon stepped to the referee, Avon even wanted the referee to stand tall, while Marlo killed the guard for standing tall, I think that was one of the points of the show, the next generation keeps getting worse
@@RetroVideoGamer23 I get that, but the guard didn't just "stand tall". He verbally judged Marlo, where as the game referee knew about Avon and judged him but just changed his behavior in fear of him. I think if the guard had been professional and treated Marlo like any other customer, it wouldn't have been killed.
Avon went back to finish his original sentence. Since they come get him on new charges
Time to run the wire back!! REWIRED!!
If HBO were to do a contuation of the show in the near future, they would be able to incorporate avon in and haveit it to where he's near getting out, or just recently got out. Enough time has passed and bills/laws have also changed to where it could be believable to the viewer
Money wood have bought another decade .As soon as the popularity reached the presidential stage they were probably told pull the plug.
He did 10 years in prison. Got out in 2015.Where Avon open a candy store. Still doing his thing on the low , collecting his paper on the westside of B-More.
The Wire Season 6…The Prison System…
If Dave Simon does a Season 6 of The Wire, I would love to see Avon have a Frank Lucas/Al Pacino in Carlito's Way kind of "Take back his empire" kind of path.
I know the deacon that interacts with Colvin is who Avon was based on in the real life gentleman's younger days. I could see Avon coming out as a "Cuddy" type character but fuck all of that! I want Avon to walk out of prison, get picked up by his sister, meet up with Slim Charles, sharpen his murder skills at a gun range, and start taking back the Westside block by block from whoever is running it.
Even if Avon had to just do the remaining five, he was essentially done.
Like Marlo, he’s probably going to be under a microscope for the rest of his days.
7 years…… so like 4 years 3 years parole
Avon had to finish his 7 year sentence then got 5 years add on his his original prison term so all to together Avon had to do 12 years.
I remember it being 25 years
Remember the one guy took all the weapons charges for avon only thing the cops and prosecutors can charge avon with was a parole violation
This is correct about the 7 years we don't know for sure if they were able to prosecute further. It's worth noting that stringer died. I don't know how well that CI would have held up in court.
@@seanmcmillon7512 Right I'm sure they tried to charge him beyond the parole violation but will never know if it was successful. He obviously had great legal representation and the CI that gave them information was dead. I think the most likely scenario is he had to finish the 7 years and maybe a little bit further but no guarantee
McNulty said we can't get you for these guns but you will do every day of what's left of your 7. So Avon was never going to do anything over or less than what was left of his original sentence
As loyal as Slim Charles might have been, I don't see why he'd let Avon take over if he got back on the streets. Slim Charles hadn't taken over Avon's organization. He was a hired gun who went to work for someone else after working for Avon.
As to Avon's jail time, everything about the scene with him selling the connect to Marlo always made me think he'd gotten another longer sentence than what he'd received in season one.
At the very least he got atleast the rest of his 7 years before he was released
A great example of the away game is when Stringer tells people that the cell phone business is doomed because of market saturation. It's a throw-away funny line given what we know about the mobile phone industry, but it really shows that he's out of his depth.
good point on the usefulness of us not knowing!
Slimm Charles would give it back to Avon, “I ain’t fit to be no CEO…”
He did at least 25
Avon would of got a Covid release from Trump
Stringer wanted to be a businessman until he got hustled by a Businessman
He did the seven if the case went federal they would have transferred him to the feds
In an episode in season 5, he was referred to by his full name Randy Wagstaff.
You can do some shit and be like what the fuck, but NEVER on no Sunday morning
I never thought about Chris Partlow being under Barksdale in prison for protetction.
I don’t know if he was “under protection “ I just think with everything basically over between Marlo/Avon Chris and WB had a mutual respect they knew it was business plus what was Chris gonna do ? Leave the whole prison population in a vacant lol .. ain’t no guns in prison .. not saying Chris couldn’t fight but it was in his best interest to play nice .. in my opinion anyway
At a minimum he had to do the 7 years from the previous bid. Potentially a lot more but at a minimum 7 years
The funny thing is that in the game there's money for everybody thing is that there is one want all
"The king stay the king aight " Dee