This is one of Jordan Peterson's most succinct summations of our problem today and the direction out of it. His contribution is real and greatly helpful. The challenge for all minds of good will is to correct our own lives, and to collectively come together as willing, right-minded individuals for what Christian's call the Great Awakening.
Great of you to dig this old one of Peterson to have it circulate again on the site. This man is such a legend. This was probably early 2017 (aha, i was right!)
That's because post modernists are in many ways like nihilists but are not intellectually honest to go all the way to Nietzsche. When truth and logic are no longer seen as meaningful or with foundation, will to power is the only option left. Joker's nihilism is a little different in that it's really about moral nihilism and in recognizing the truth of ethical systems being socially constructed but he too would agree with many post modernist critiques on rationality, morality, essence, etc
Post-modernism has made the U.S. unstable and it feels like even mentioning that raises suspicion that you must be a Russian troll if you say that online (and by feels like I mean being accused of that by leftist accounts when you dare criticize the frame of their ideology, of which they are unable/unwilling to discuss intellectually). We have a failure of academia in this country, that was systematically disrupted (or subverted which may be the better term if you believe the interview with KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov) and although there is optimism out there it is also rapidly nearing a downward spiral, or may already be in one depending on your perspective and experiences, given that protestors are starting to shut down commuters in the West and allegedly 51% of Americans support impeachment of Trump, despite great successes and a new paradigm that actually promotes peace. Since it seems the system itself is divided as well between post-modernists and people who are not post-modernists, we're pretty much doomed as a culture now, although that doesn't mean you have a right to make it worse. Best to save money where you can and figure out other income streams in addition to your job, that make you less dependent on cultural stability. Good luck to us all.
postmodernism does damage mental health. it did mine and now that it’s even more pervasive i have watch my children go through it, and they don’t even have the small bit of skepticism of postmodernism that i had 😟
@@AlanWattResistance you're correct but when not preaching to the choir it helps to clarify why postmodernism is so bad i.e. it's simplified lying that destroys whatever it latches onto. The word postmodernism almost sounds like a desireable futurist movement.
It's a death-cult. Unfortunately for rational men the other side of this holy war are a bunch of idiot sun worshipers. Faced with the prospect of suiting up and arming up and going to fight a war to decide whether idiot sun worshipers or evil death cultists will rule the world does not appeal to me.
Peterson: “When my kids were going to school... I told my son he was perfectly welcome to pelt any teacher he wanted to in the back of the head with a snowball as long as he was willing to suffer the consequences... I don’t know if he ever did it, but he was certainly happy with the idea, which made me very happy about him. Kids need to do this... It’s what civilizes them.”
Not coincidentally, the whole lot of the core French post-modernist thinkers of the 20th century were nearly all perverts in general or pedophiles in particular.
I like JP but he ultimately espoused an argument of progressivism with a Christian foundation in this video: humans can attain a form of perfection if truth is our god. Unfortunately, I believe, we cannot attain any sense of good without submitting first to God as Lord and Savior. Man's heart is deceptive beyond comprehension. Only by submitting to God can He direct our ways and then we can make a good difference in this world.
Perhaps he did, but put into the wider context of his expressed views, I think whatever espousal of progressivism was accidental. He does believe humans are inherently flawed. That's the crux of his argument against Marxist utopianism. Would we have a flawless world if truth and the pursuit of objective truth was one of our highest aspirations? No, because humans are flawed That's why it's called an aspirational ideal. What I think he was trying to say is that if this was how we tried to orient society, whether or not it would be a utopia, whether or not we're even capable of it (which I don't think we are and neither, I think, does he), it would be a hell of a lot closer to paradise than what we're doing now.
But they haven't eliminated value systems entirely. There are values they don't deconstruct, like victimhood. They don't deconstruct the idea that your victimhood status somehow gives you moral supremacy, for instance.
@@Tyler_W That's cool; and I understand, I just pick everything apart. When someone moves around a lot on stage and moves their hands around a lot it reminds me of TV evangelism; I think it's distracting, I think it's easier to digest the message when that is all your getting. But this is just me thinking out loud, not really criticism.
Wait a second. I’m very grateful I have a job, I’m in good health etc. But I can just afford rent and food and travel on the wage I earn. Whereas my immigrant father could support a family in a four bedroom house thirty years ago this is impossible on what I’m earning. Even if I did find a woman willing to date someone as low status as me she’d have to work too just for us to afford this. Something isn’t right and that is down to rising debt. Peterson never mentions this. Why not?
It's the result of inflation, which is a silent tax on the public. The Central Banks continually increase the money supply, which leads to the dollar losing value (supply and demand: More dollars = less value for each dollar). I know retired people who remember the day their utility bill began to be more expensive than their mortgage payment -- inflation. So the government runs up debt at today's dollars, then the Central Bank prints more and more money, then in 30 years, the government will pay back today's debt for pennies on the dollar, after inflation. This is why America's Founding Fathers were strongly AGAINST the creation of a Central Bank... but the Federal Reserve came to be anyway, in 1913. Support people who want it audited and/or abolished.
Corporate America is largely to blame. My father with two years of college, rose to The Chief Logistician of The Apache Helicopter for the DOD. He had the ability to write exceptionally well, coupled with the gift of mechanical inclination. Perfect for writing technical manuals. Dad said a full 35% of his pension was dedicated to health care, with Blue Cross insurance included as a Federal Civil Servant which he did not didn't think in his wildest dreams that it would be that expensive. I'm employed by a place that I consistently out perform almost all of my peers in every performance metrics, bad corporate policies dictate my ability to get promoted because I don't have a bachelor's degree. I consistently I perform the people with college degrees. Experience commensurate with education is over. Don't be so hard on yourself, it takes almost every couple to have a joint income. Don't debase yourself because of your income. And any woman that as dr. King put it, I look forward to a day when a man is judged by the content of his character is a woman not worth considering as a partner. Our parents generation got ahead through perseverance and hard work. Unions I've been systematically taken away, pensions replace my 401k because people aren't employed bison company for 30 years. Each year my health insurance premiums go up and coverage goes down. Corporations are ruthless don't care about the middle class, our parents at least had a sporting chance. It's over for us, of course that's my opinion I could be wrong
As far as I have been able to determine; “Alegance to the proper path” is akin to Sam Harris’ “moral center” which is only meaningful because it is still nested within and upheld by Judeo-Christian ethic that underlies the axioms that created the West. Recourse to “a proper path” is too mechanical, ,to remote from human experience and devoid of human emotion to inspire men. As far as I have been able to observe, in order for mankind to be able to “adhere to the proper path” mankind must have an allegiance that some-one higher than themselves that stands “outside” of the human sphere. Otherwise any system of belief unavoidably turns in upon itself and ultimately adopts it’s own presuppositions and changing goals as the super-ordinate. That is where the notion of “God” comes in. Psychologically, only the acceptance of and a relationship with Diety” is capable of circumscribing and transforming human behavior. Only the belief that one will be “held accountable” before an “all seeing” being who has established absolute truths (E.g. Ten Commandments) is capable of containing human passions, greed, etc. and providing a transcendent narrative that can direct human reason upward rather than inward.
You have No idea what the hell the postmodernism is. Doctor Peterson please read lyotard, Foucault, Derrida, or Bauman and come back with the recent thought:)
Hysterical overinterpretation of PM, historical misinterpretation... and bullshit. In a first line. Actually, it should have been about "PM", but RUclips version of tv preacher a.k.a. JP is attacking, again, something else. Act right now - think!! (Unless you are starving). Over
Gayle Rubin, author of what's considered the founding document of queer theory defends pedophilia in said document, comparing it to like having a taste preference in spicy food.
@@Rhygenix That's a "something-ism" so therefore you are an "idealogue" and we can pretend it's just "something" because someone he didn't like didn't say it. *proceeds to another strawman argument* lol
PolyDimensionals Philosophy no it’s not wiser, there is always in between. It’s not one way or the other. The guy is like those hardcore conservatives that preach the world is ending, a demagogue.
@@nikolaos1991 The in between is pedophilia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws This is why the Postmodernists wanted to claim morality is subjective. They can make an excuse for any demented thing they feel like doing. You are just getting conned into believing it's for a good cause.
This is one of Jordan Peterson's most succinct summations of our problem today and the direction out of it. His contribution is real and greatly helpful. The challenge for all minds of good will is to correct our own lives, and to collectively come together as willing, right-minded individuals for what Christian's call the Great Awakening.
Great of you to dig this old one of Peterson to have it circulate again on the site. This man is such a legend. This was probably early 2017 (aha, i was right!)
The commercials kill all the fun of watching youtube to me.
Thomas Georg Bahr --true, but thats why youtube is free. the alternative is to pay a fee, which one can do.
It almost at times seems like JP is talking about what happened in the recent origin Joker movie.
That's because post modernists are in many ways like nihilists but are not intellectually honest to go all the way to Nietzsche. When truth and logic are no longer seen as meaningful or with foundation, will to power is the only option left. Joker's nihilism is a little different in that it's really about moral nihilism and in recognizing the truth of ethical systems being socially constructed but he too would agree with many post modernist critiques on rationality, morality, essence, etc
Without values you are nothing
Thank you.
You posted this at the right time. Also angel numbers.
JBP's fav phrases:
'by any stretch of imagination'
'give the devil his due'
Where can I find the rest of this lecture?
Post-modernism has made the U.S. unstable and it feels like even mentioning that raises suspicion that you must be a Russian troll if you say that online (and by feels like I mean being accused of that by leftist accounts when you dare criticize the frame of their ideology, of which they are unable/unwilling to discuss intellectually). We have a failure of academia in this country, that was systematically disrupted (or subverted which may be the better term if you believe the interview with KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov) and although there is optimism out there it is also rapidly nearing a downward spiral, or may already be in one depending on your perspective and experiences, given that protestors are starting to shut down commuters in the West and allegedly 51% of Americans support impeachment of Trump, despite great successes and a new paradigm that actually promotes peace. Since it seems the system itself is divided as well between post-modernists and people who are not post-modernists, we're pretty much doomed as a culture now, although that doesn't mean you have a right to make it worse. Best to save money where you can and figure out other income streams in addition to your job, that make you less dependent on cultural stability. Good luck to us all.
postmodernism does damage mental health. it did mine and now that it’s even more pervasive i have watch my children go through it, and they don’t even have the small bit of skepticism of postmodernism that i had 😟
postmodernism is a uselessly opaque term - it should simply be called destructivism.
Or just plain evil.
@@AlanWattResistance you're correct but when not preaching to the choir it helps to clarify why postmodernism is so bad i.e. it's simplified lying that destroys whatever it latches onto. The word postmodernism almost sounds like a desireable futurist movement.
@@andyd568 or call it what it really is: j3wishness
It's a death-cult. Unfortunately for rational men the other side of this holy war are a bunch of idiot sun worshipers. Faced with the prospect of suiting up and arming up and going to fight a war to decide whether idiot sun worshipers or evil death cultists will rule the world does not appeal to me.
Yes - destroying everything for the sake of destruction.
Postmodern is the idea going and staying at ground zero.
Year zero
God damn, this is poetry
Peterson: “When my kids were going to school... I told my son he was perfectly welcome to pelt any teacher he wanted to in the back of the head with a snowball as long as he was willing to suffer the consequences... I don’t know if he ever did it, but he was certainly happy with the idea, which made me very happy about him. Kids need to do this... It’s what civilizes them.”
Brilliant
Postmodernists-the natural heirs to the French revolutionary mob.
Not coincidentally, the whole lot of the core French post-modernist thinkers of the 20th century were nearly all perverts in general or pedophiles in particular.
I like JP but he ultimately espoused an argument of progressivism with a Christian foundation in this video: humans can attain a form of perfection if truth is our god. Unfortunately, I believe, we cannot attain any sense of good without submitting first to God as Lord and Savior. Man's heart is deceptive beyond comprehension. Only by submitting to God can He direct our ways and then we can make a good difference in this world.
We but need to truly listen to the Holy Spirit who speaks to us throughout the day, and then choose to respond.
Perhaps he did, but put into the wider context of his expressed views, I think whatever espousal of progressivism was accidental. He does believe humans are inherently flawed. That's the crux of his argument against Marxist utopianism. Would we have a flawless world if truth and the pursuit of objective truth was one of our highest aspirations? No, because humans are flawed
That's why it's called an aspirational ideal. What I think he was trying to say is that if this was how we tried to orient society, whether or not it would be a utopia, whether or not we're even capable of it (which I don't think we are and neither, I think, does he), it would be a hell of a lot closer to paradise than what we're doing now.
But they haven't eliminated value systems entirely. There are values they don't deconstruct, like victimhood. They don't deconstruct the idea that your victimhood status somehow gives you moral supremacy, for instance.
I don't know if this evangelism speaking style works for you as much as a interview setting.
Well, he got popular because of this lecture style of presentation because he's a professor and public speaker.
@@Tyler_W That's cool; and I understand, I just pick everything apart. When someone moves around a lot on stage and moves their hands around a lot it reminds me of TV evangelism; I think it's distracting, I think it's easier to digest the message when that is all your getting. But this is just me thinking out loud, not really criticism.
Wait a second. I’m very grateful I have a job, I’m in good health etc. But I can just afford rent and food and travel on the wage I earn. Whereas my immigrant father could support a family in a four bedroom house thirty years ago this is impossible on what I’m earning. Even if I did find a woman willing to date someone as low status as me she’d have to work too just for us to afford this. Something isn’t right and that is down to rising debt. Peterson never mentions this. Why not?
It's the result of inflation, which is a silent tax on the public. The Central Banks continually increase the money supply, which leads to the dollar losing value (supply and demand: More dollars = less value for each dollar). I know retired people who remember the day their utility bill began to be more expensive than their mortgage payment -- inflation. So the government runs up debt at today's dollars, then the Central Bank prints more and more money, then in 30 years, the government will pay back today's debt for pennies on the dollar, after inflation. This is why America's Founding Fathers were strongly AGAINST the creation of a Central Bank... but the Federal Reserve came to be anyway, in 1913. Support people who want it audited and/or abolished.
He actually answers your issue (in the abstract) around 6:40.
Corporate America is largely to blame. My father with two years of college, rose to The Chief Logistician of The Apache Helicopter for the DOD.
He had the ability to write exceptionally well, coupled with the gift of mechanical inclination. Perfect for writing technical manuals.
Dad said a full 35% of his pension was dedicated to health care, with Blue Cross insurance included as a Federal Civil Servant which he did not didn't think in his wildest dreams that it would be that expensive.
I'm employed by a place that I consistently out perform almost all of my peers in every performance metrics, bad corporate policies dictate my ability to get promoted because I don't have a bachelor's degree.
I consistently I perform the people with college degrees. Experience commensurate with education is over.
Don't be so hard on yourself, it takes almost every couple to have a joint income. Don't debase yourself because of your income. And any woman that as dr. King put it, I look forward to a day when a man is judged by the content of his character is a woman not worth considering as a partner.
Our parents generation got ahead through perseverance and hard work.
Unions I've been systematically taken away, pensions replace my 401k because people aren't employed bison company for 30 years.
Each year my health insurance premiums go up and coverage goes down.
Corporations are ruthless don't care about the middle class, our parents at least had a sporting chance. It's over for us, of course that's my opinion I could be wrong
Jesus Christ, Jordan. Read Ayn Rand already. For your own sake.
As far as I have been able to determine; “Alegance to the proper path” is akin to Sam Harris’ “moral center” which is only meaningful because it is still nested within and upheld by Judeo-Christian ethic that underlies the axioms that created the West. Recourse to “a proper path” is too mechanical, ,to remote from human experience and devoid of human emotion to inspire men. As far as I have been able to observe, in order for mankind to be able to “adhere to the proper path” mankind must have an allegiance that some-one higher than themselves that stands “outside” of the human sphere. Otherwise any system of belief unavoidably turns in upon itself and ultimately adopts it’s own presuppositions and changing goals as the super-ordinate. That is where the notion of “God” comes in. Psychologically, only the acceptance of and a relationship with Diety” is capable of circumscribing and transforming human behavior. Only the belief that one will be “held accountable” before an “all seeing” being who has established absolute truths (E.g. Ten Commandments) is capable of containing human passions, greed, etc. and providing a transcendent narrative that can direct human reason upward rather than inward.
You have No idea what the hell the postmodernism is. Doctor Peterson please read lyotard, Foucault, Derrida, or Bauman and come back with the recent thought:)
Hysterical overinterpretation of PM, historical misinterpretation... and bullshit. In a first line. Actually, it should have been about "PM", but RUclips version of tv preacher a.k.a. JP is attacking, again, something else. Act right now - think!! (Unless you are starving). Over
Alright, name 1 postmodern author
peterson
A lot
You could try Michael Foucault but if you're thinking of popular fiction,I would suggest Umberto Eco.
Foucault, aka "godfather of queer thoery", argued for the eradication of age of consent laws... as in down to infants.
Gayle Rubin, author of what's considered the founding document of queer theory defends pedophilia in said document, comparing it to like having a taste preference in spicy food.
You really should go on a LONG comedy tour with Tony Robbins and Joel Osteen.
Something-ism is bad thing!!!!!
(Any ideologue ever)
Oh!! And my -ism ( which i dont always explicitly put in words or am aware of) is good thing!!!!
That's some argument you have there. Lol
Nazism is a bad thing
@@Rhygenix That's a "something-ism" so therefore you are an "idealogue" and we can pretend it's just "something" because someone he didn't like didn't say it. *proceeds to another strawman argument* lol
All these right wing pessimists 🤢
Isn't it wiser to not deconstruct away personal responsibility?
Not an argument.
PolyDimensionals Philosophy no it’s not wiser, there is always in between. It’s not one way or the other. The guy is like those hardcore conservatives that preach the world is ending, a demagogue.
@@nikolaos1991 The in between is pedophilia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petition_against_age_of_consent_laws This is why the Postmodernists wanted to claim morality is subjective. They can make an excuse for any demented thing they feel like doing. You are just getting conned into believing it's for a good cause.
He says one of the most disgusting thing ever : all values have collapsed, there is nothing to do!