haha wtf, they roasted this perfectly polite man trying to get a deal. he's criticized for not accepting Debra's offer before the others had had a say, if he would've accepted Debra's offer right there and then he'd be criticized for not letting the others have a say.
It's because he didnt graciously acknowledge the offer. He just said let's see what others have to say. If he had thanked Deborah, said the percentage was quite a bit higher than he had anticipated and he would like to hear from other dragons first... it would've been received much better. A very small change, that snowballed into a problem.
You don't know how the episode might get edited down, the producers obviously like the dragons to look as good as possible as much of the time as possible
A classic case of 'you can't do right for doing wrong'. Was he just expected to accept Deborah's offer before hearing any others? I saw an episode once where the entrepreneur was made an offer and the dragon asked him if he was accepting, he nearly accepted before other dragons interjected as they hadn't made offers yet.
You’ll probably find there was some editing involved here and the full unedited version looked awkward because the other dragons weren’t really interested.
This is the first case I've seen of an entrepreneur being forced to make a decision without hearing all possible offers. He wisely kept his options open and got the 'playing hard to get' sulking from Deborah Meaden. Saying now in 2021, his market is much bigger than he thought because landlords have to do a risk assessment for legionella bacteria before letting a house or flat. The common source of legionella is the shower hose drooping down and curving up to the shower head when not being used - the static warm water can breed bacteria and release it as an aerosol (small droplets of liquid) which the shower-user breathes in as soon as he or she turns on the shower.
@@jojokoko1569 Hello you intellectual GIANT. In the context that you aimed for and spectacularly missed, it is YOU'RE, rather than your. Guess you slipped the leash from YOUR, (did you see what happened there) carers, hopefully YOU'RE (and again), back in their (not there) control, soon to be medicated. Try again?. 🙂
Not many people filling a kettle in a health club, Duncan. Legionnaire's disease gets its name because of an outbreak in a hotel, not someone's kicthen. But he's right that tackling it in the tank would be the way to go.
I've watched lots of those but I got to say that this felt wrong. I don't know what happened here, but It seemed like she was kind of bullying him because he wanted to listen to other people's offer, to then make a drama out of his intention of getting the best offer that he could've gotten. Also awkward how all the other dragons were like "oh, I cannot take Deborah's offer, she was nice to you with that 40%". Weird one.
Lol I really thought, Duncan would be interested in this product, as he has chain of fitness clubs and hotels. He could have been a pioneer in the leisure industry and also increased the premiums on his gyms and rooms. Seemed like a win-win.
In what way was she rude? EDIT: Ah yes, just seen it lol. She should know more than anyone that a 40% slice is a huge decision for anyone that requires a careful consideration of all the options
When she made an offer for 40%, I was thinking "You should take that offer"! Once she demanded that he responds immediately to her offer, I started shouting "Dude, run away!". I don't understand what she wanted him to say. The fact that the other Dragons seem to defend her makes me think that maybe some things were said off camera.
To be honest I can understand Deborah was frustrated, he didn't seem very keen on the offer like he was hoping another dragon he would rather work with would put an offer in
Why were they acting weird about him wanting to hear other Dragon’s offers? Deborah offered him the money for a whopping 40% of the company - of course he’s going to see what the others were going to offer.
@Theo Volz exactly what I said!!! And the answer is, because it’s a show. Most of the offers made and accepted fall through as soon as the cameras are off...
If all 250k showers across UK hospitals were fitted with the filters, then with this product being a better substitute for the current filters. That's 250k sold units! Just by supplying the hospital demographic! For extra revenue, offer hospitals installation discount rates when purchasing the product. Make a deal with a plummer to take a commission for each installation job of the product.
They recognised he wasn't a business man and poor at negotiations and bullied him him out of 40% making it sound like they were doing him a favour bad taste deborah
dude almost 150,000 is a lot to ask for. A lot of these people ask for 80,000 and walk out with a 20% deal why is 150k for 40% so bad? especially when he isn't even making money off them yet
😆 enjoyed this thread! Not easy to swallow @ROY FR. They did bully him into the deal but at the same time given the stage of development with that amount of investment.. that’s business really. They’ll expedite his path to success and in return he pays for their services. Everyone wins
i think that if he showed he had the balls to offer them 30% - they would have settled for 35% but because he was bad at this negotiation - that counted against his ability to negotiate on behalf of the business at any later stage - so meant that that job would always entirely be on their shoulders.. so they felt they deserved 40%..
Disgusting, bullying her way into an unfavourable deal. Was this series filmed a hundred years ago? These dragons behave like landed gentry having to hand out charity to ungrateful paupers.
are you 10 years old?, this is how business is and this is how you make yourself a multi-millionaire , welcome to capitalism, the beauty is anyone can do this, just gotta have mindset for it.
@@garbageparade5144 No, people like that are not fun to work with and play with ur mind. there are plenty of investors out there. Thats why they play these games
9:34 when deborah had her second chin temper tantrum and asked ian why she should invest, ian should have dropped his trousers exposing his lion king boxers and said while gyrating his pelvis "because i'll take you for a ride on the wild ian express you cheeky git"
@@MrSpardas You might not be old enough. It was a problem about 30 or 40 yrs ago. Was named legionnaires disease bc a group of legion people, got it at a hotel. They discovered it was being passed through the airconditioning. Don't think its been much of a threat in N. Amer. since then but is always the potential for it.
@@caryulmer5578 it was spread through the spray of cooling tower on the roof which came down to the street level. Me - HVAC technician . for that reason now we have to maintain chemical dosing records of/for the cooling towers ( in Australia)
Very odd, he was supposed to just accept Deborah's offer and not even listen to the rest! This is the first one I've watched where I wanted the applicant to tell the Dragons to fuggle off!
Poor manners and form from the Dragons in this one, particularly Deborah, since when did they expect the pitcher in the Den to immediately accept or reject an offer when it’s the first one that any of them have made and then berate the pitcher for wanting to hear what the other Dragons have to say or offer? This isn’t Shark Tank...
You wait until you see the episode where Peter makes an offer and then sets a timer for the entrepreneur to respond, as if to say "I'm the Big Man with all the money and you have to dance for me."
I've watched the US, UK, Australia, Canadian versions of Dragon's Den/Shark Tank. The UK one is by far the one with the most stumbling over their words in their pitches. Wonder if that's an editing thing in the other versions, or if the UK one just has more entrepreneurs that stumble.
4 года назад
60% of a great cooperative deal with the Dragon who most likely can get you rolling is better than keeping 100% and walking out all on your own with no capital.
What a bunch of bullies! It was so obvious that Peter & James are talking up Debra's offer. They obviously have a strategy between themselves how to get a high % when one or two of them are interested in a business.
Theo - "I'll put it down to nerves" Put what down to nerves? The guy seemed polite enough and wasn't rude or arrogant.. just because he didn't take the first offer immediately? Dragons come off a bit like ***** this episode.
@Daz Ediss her profit wouldn't have halved. Her investment would have halved. ISTM the concern with bringing in another Dragon was about control. She had a vision of where to go, but would have to work harder to make it stick
YTD 30.06.19 (most recently available accounts), the business (now renamed HELMORE INDUSTRIAL WATER TREATMENT LTD) made a profit of c. £137,000. He still features on both Theo and Deborah's websites but there is no mention on companies house as to whether they are still (or were ever) bonafide directors in the company.
4 года назад
I hate it when entrepreneurs get an offer, say a half-assed "thanks, but what do others have to say". Negotiate immediately, keep the Dragon interested and do not leave the Dragon hanging and risk losing all offers.
Lots of rough criticism here for both the inventor and the Dragons. I think he does not realize how to run a business- which the Dragons can bring. But he is still a very smart guy.
Because Peter he said 77% gross his net is 56% so if he dropped 50% he would only get 6% net, he should drop but not equal, just 30% so hes only £20 more and hel be able to afford a beach in marbeya not Blackpool beach with his 6% and thats before the investors return of 30 to 40% of his 6% so he will end up with 4% if hes lucky, 4% of the mean average £90 per shower so a net of £3;60 per shower, he will sell a lot but yeah. dropping 30% he will have 26% to play with befor an investors return so he will hopefully make £15 per shower, but I think his price is right, a company that has a duty of care to only pay an extra £50 each for a product that will be used across thousands of people is not unfair to ask, to be honest this should be legislation, UVC light should be everywhere.
@@HIOP0 he was bullied into it but yeah ur right however, its a dumb invention. The same purification can be implimented at the waters incoming supply treating all your water! theres no filter so its not like u need a bigger filter to filter more water. DUMB IDEA
Having worked in compliance I’m unsure what the value of this product is. Legionella is a risk, yes, but it’s one that’s quite easily managed with a good risk assessment, regular flushings, and temperature checks. A small business could easily afford the training for a member of staff to learn how to carry out and record flushings and temp checks and get a contractor in to do a risk assessment every couple of years. A larger business could outsource the whole kit and caboodle to one of the many water management contractors out there. Installing this bit of kit doesn’t remove the HSE requirement to risk assess your water system nor should it stop the need for regular flushing and temperature monitoring, so it’s just a substantial additional expense on top of what an organisation should already be doing which, if they’re doing it competently, is more than enough! Plus the fact it’s a non-standard piece of equipment so if it fails only a small number of people will be able to repair it - yet more expense. All I can see this product doing is engendering exactly the sort of complacency and negligence that results in a legionella outbreak. If this chap had actually got some water management companies expressing interest in stocking the product then maybe it would’ve been a viable investment, but as it stands Deborah and Theo were victims of their own ignorance and the ignorance of the pitcher. They should’ve listened to Duncan, he was a bit fuzzy on the technical detail but he clearly knows there are cheaper and equally effective ways of managing legionella.
The point of this invention is that there is no risk once you install these showers. And, as Peter Jones pointed out, it would be possible to sell the units for the SAME price as a regular shower but still make a significant profit. The question then immediately becomes, why WOULDN'T any hospital etc install them?
aartadventure but the HSE requirements for managing legionella are written into legislature and would remain the same unless the government changed them. Organisations would still have a legal obligation to employ or contract someone to assess and manage the legionella risk - why would they then go to the additional expense of installing non-standard equipment that is no more effective at controlling legionella than making sure your water temp is either too hot or too cold for the bacteria to survive, regularly flushing your outlets, and maintaining the condition of your water system? It’s an over engineered solution to a problem that barely exists - when legionella outbreaks happen it’s almost always due to complacency and negligence, which this invention cannot prevent.
CalLadyQED They’re a general purpose antibacterial filter used by hospitals to manage the risk of legionella and other possible water contaminants. They’re case in point as to why this invention is not a good investment - hospitals spend money installing the filters as one tool in their legionella management toolkit but they still have to meet HSE guidelines and pay someone to assess and manage the legionella risk, check the water temperature at every outlet monthly, flush every outlet weekly, and maintain/replace the filters as needed. The filters are bog standard kit that water management contractors know how to maintain, this is novel technology that would require a separate contractor to maintain/repair when it fails. If he’d come into the Den and said “I’ve spoken to the three biggest water management companies in the UK and they’re all interested in stocking my invention” it might be a more reliable investment. But the fact he wants to try selling direct to the duty holders belies an ignorance about how legionella compliance is managed and legislated.
Wow they roasted this poor man knowing they can bend him and they done exactly that trying to rinse him for his business and money, that was a little bullish
People in the comments who are confused about them being unusual or even mean to him. That's a perception you can have, but this is what conning looks like. They often do it as a team on DD, basically they help each other out on different offers to get insane deals like this. This was an extreme case. They robbed him blind.
It is a very good invention especially in higher risk areas, like care homes. Clearly a market for this but it's going to be difficult to get into the mass market
@@RaccoonNation proof? CH shows 250k total equity June 19 down from 288k June 18. Will be even less June 20 thanks to corona. The company's in the doldrums clearly.
Technically there's never an elevator. The one in later seasons is basically just a small room with two sets of doors pretending to be one, everything's on one level in the studio.
@@TheAazah It turns out that many things that appear on one's television screen are not, in fact, real, and are just there for dramatic purposes. www.quietrebellion.com/blogs/news/dragons-den
All you need to do is keep your hot water hot, cold water cold, make sure every outlet is ran for a couple of mins every week. Calculate how often the cold water tank "turns over" so water doesn't just sit but is used, this will happen if the tank is too big/full.
haha wtf, they roasted this perfectly polite man trying to get a deal. he's criticized for not accepting Debra's offer before the others had had a say, if he would've accepted Debra's offer right there and then he'd be criticized for not letting the others have a say.
It's because he didnt graciously acknowledge the offer. He just said let's see what others have to say. If he had thanked Deborah, said the percentage was quite a bit higher than he had anticipated and he would like to hear from other dragons first... it would've been received much better. A very small change, that snowballed into a problem.
Nice guys finish last
Yeah, they were dicks here. Powerplays. I normally can't fault Debra
You don't know how the episode might get edited down, the producers obviously like the dragons to look as good as possible as much of the time as possible
Theo just paid 20grand to kiss Deborah, that was the real motive behind his investment
Apparently he lives in Deborahs basement and is allowed out at Christmas.
Apes together strong
Based on what source, can you share?
🤣🤣
Better than combing the beaches for seaweed ; )
A classic case of 'you can't do right for doing wrong'. Was he just expected to accept Deborah's offer before hearing any others? I saw an episode once where the entrepreneur was made an offer and the dragon asked him if he was accepting, he nearly accepted before other dragons interjected as they hadn't made offers yet.
You’ll probably find there was some editing involved here and the full unedited version looked awkward because the other dragons weren’t really interested.
@@blue24563 yeah but tbh there ment to say there out if there not interested so it probably was really uncomfortsble for him
This is the first case I've seen of an entrepreneur being forced to make a decision without hearing all possible offers. He wisely kept his options open and got the 'playing hard to get' sulking from Deborah Meaden. Saying now in 2021, his market is much bigger than he thought because landlords have to do a risk assessment for legionella bacteria before letting a house or flat. The common source of legionella is the shower hose drooping down and curving up to the shower head when not being used - the static warm water can breed bacteria and release it as an aerosol (small droplets of liquid) which the shower-user breathes in as soon as he or she turns on the shower.
*Goes in to bathroom unhooks shower head so its no longer drooping*
He literally didn't even acknowledge her offer, he went straight to 'anyone else?'
That wind tunnel is for the shell duck 😂
He was clearly nervous but thats very understandable. It's a great product and I'm happy he won the investment. A very polite and sincere guy too.
Duncan hammer time, theo the fetus, pizza jones.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
First time I heard Duncan I thought it was Duncan Valentine
@@ebonimom6964 i still thought his surname is valentine until i saw ur comment lmao
Don't know why but this really made me laugh 😂
Theo the Fetus :DD I was about to write that again.
So nice name
Always doubly entertaining when you watch it with the subtitles 😂
10:49 he felt like losing it there. Not even convinced of the deal he made😂
That guy was bullied into that deal. I would have told her to take a hike.
And that is WHY you are a hopeless drone and he is a MULTI-MILLIONAIRE. :)
@@HIOP0
your the type of person to lick boots and shout “how high?” when someone tells you to jump.
@@jojokoko1569 Hello you intellectual GIANT. In the context that you aimed for and spectacularly missed, it is YOU'RE, rather than your. Guess you slipped the leash from YOUR, (did you see what happened there) carers, hopefully YOU'RE (and again), back in their (not there) control, soon to be medicated. Try again?. 🙂
@@HIOP0
nope you’re wrong
@@HIOP0
its your.
Not many people filling a kettle in a health club, Duncan. Legionnaire's disease gets its name because of an outbreak in a hotel, not someone's kicthen. But he's right that tackling it in the tank would be the way to go.
I've watched lots of those but I got to say that this felt wrong. I don't know what happened here, but It seemed like she was kind of bullying him because he wanted to listen to other people's offer, to then make a drama out of his intention of getting the best offer that he could've gotten. Also awkward how all the other dragons were like "oh, I cannot take Deborah's offer, she was nice to you with that 40%". Weird one.
I agree!
Dragons are being arseholes in this episode to be fair. He should of walked away
He did...after 12 months of their meddling
Watching Duncan seethe in his chair after declaring himself 'out' is like watching a suspicious-looking cylindrical shaped object ticking...
Company has done over 3m in sales to date ....wow
That's not very much considering how old this episode is!
@@youtubaholic Hopefully Pylon was being sarcastic.
Do you know this episode was before Facebook, Twitter and Instagram?
Turnover is vanity profit is sanity
Turnover means NOTHING
This guy has done very well, making close to a million a year and he gives a lot to charity. He deserves success.
That's really good to hear and awesome if he gives to charities too💯💕
An entrepreneur with , true, Heart, now, THAT'S what I call Success !
The charity that he gives to is Al-Qaeda
@@Drunken_Slob no that's the CIA luv
Lol.
This is Deborah at her best bullying,I hope she look back on this with shame,her tactics mellowed in the latter years,but still evedent.
I agree 100%, watching this now, I remember how much I disliked her back then. Different hair different Dragon.
She's so much more lovely now I find. Is it just mellowing with age or maybe soemthing in her personal life made her happier. Who knows lol
@@human1414 all of the dragons are a lot softer now than they were in earlier seasons honestly
Did you post comments from multiple accounts about this?
@@aaroneudell4388 I don't find her to be that different. She always wants to lecture/scold the entrepreneur before saying she's out.
It was better with the stairs, that bloke with the big ears used to lurk under them then pop out at the end of a pitch to have a chat with them
Nothing intricate about you, nope, nothing at all.
I thought it would have been wise to listen to everyone else's thoughts before deciding on Deborah's offer, something smells fishy...
Lol I really thought, Duncan would be interested in this product, as he has chain of fitness clubs and hotels. He could have been a pioneer in the leisure industry and also increased the premiums on his gyms and rooms. Seemed like a win-win.
Are they afraid to step on Deb’s toes? 😢 Addendum: after watching the rest… no, wait, those guys are absolutely petrified of her!!!!! 😮
@@SolaScriptura-n-cats lol why would they be?
He is now selling about 250 000 units a year.
2:58 "where are you at the moment?" Are you blind Deborah? He's right in front of you.
That sort of incisive insight is why you are the success we all admire...
I would have rejected Debs offer - she was very rude
Money talks my dude. Money talks
In what way was she rude? EDIT: Ah yes, just seen it lol. She should know more than anyone that a 40% slice is a huge decision for anyone that requires a careful consideration of all the options
When she made an offer for 40%, I was thinking "You should take that offer"! Once she demanded that he responds immediately to her offer, I started shouting "Dude, run away!".
I don't understand what she wanted him to say. The fact that the other Dragons seem to defend her makes me think that maybe some things were said off camera.
Not really the guy was very unenthusiastic. the guy was rude.
To be honest I can understand Deborah was frustrated, he didn't seem very keen on the offer like he was hoping another dragon he would rather work with would put an offer in
Why were they acting weird about him wanting to hear other Dragon’s offers? Deborah offered him the money for a whopping 40% of the company - of course he’s going to see what the others were going to offer.
I’m happy that it’s not like this now. The person gets to hear all offers first before making a decision
u better don't watch US Shark Tank. Sharks can make an offer and say "you have 5 seconds to agree or i am out"
I think it's changed in recent times. Now they are more likely to hear out the other dragons, and undercut each other
And this is something other investors have tried doing in later series and they didn't act like that.
@Theo Volz exactly what I said!!! And the answer is, because it’s a show. Most of the offers made and accepted fall through as soon as the cameras are off...
If all 250k showers across UK hospitals were fitted with the filters, then with this product being a better substitute for the current filters.
That's 250k sold units! Just by supplying the hospital demographic!
For extra revenue, offer hospitals installation discount rates when purchasing the product.
Make a deal with a plummer to take a commission for each installation job of the product.
They recognised he wasn't a business man and poor at negotiations and bullied him him out of 40% making it sound like they were doing him a favour bad taste deborah
They are bullies.... I think ill start watching something else while Im eating....
Yes, Deborah and Theo were very impatient with him on this occasion.
dude almost 150,000 is a lot to ask for. A lot of these people ask for 80,000 and walk out with a 20% deal why is 150k for 40% so bad? especially when he isn't even making money off them yet
😆 enjoyed this thread! Not easy to swallow @ROY FR. They did bully him into the deal but at the same time given the stage of development with that amount of investment.. that’s business really. They’ll expedite his path to success and in return he pays for their services. Everyone wins
i think that if he showed he had the balls to offer them 30% - they would have settled for 35% but because he was bad at this negotiation - that counted against his ability to negotiate on behalf of the business at any later stage - so meant that that job would always entirely be on their shoulders.. so they felt they deserved 40%..
Of course he seemed a little shook when she asked for 40%, he was only offering 10% so it was clearly going to affect him when he heard 40.
shaken, not shook
classic case of perfectly nice guy meeting arrogant dragons.
I think Peter lost his comb
lol
I think he lost more than his comb
ChiefShittingBull 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Give him Tangle Teaser 😂
He was using on his pubes that day
Disgusting, bullying her way into an unfavourable deal. Was this series filmed a hundred years ago? These dragons behave like landed gentry having to hand out charity to ungrateful paupers.
are you 10 years old?, this is how business is and this is how you make yourself a multi-millionaire , welcome to capitalism, the beauty is anyone can do this, just gotta have mindset for it.
@@KHETTIUS Then I'd prefer to maintain my dignity and respect, thanks
The guy had no sales and said it had taken him 4 years to get where he is. 60% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
@@JSSTyger yeah so?
@@horusreloaded6387 what kind of response is "yeah so"?
You know this is an old episode when they have the stairs
And when they have James Caan.
Debra has fewer wrinkles
The worst was when they carried their products up the stairs and were out of breath by then 🤣
Or just by the quality of the video..
It was better with the stairs, that bloke with the big ears used to lurk under them then pop out at the end of a pitch to have a chat with them
Wow Debra showing her true colours in this one. I really couldn't work with her with that sudden burst of anger.
Well you won't get far without a backbone
@@garbageparade5144 No, people like that are not fun to work with and play with ur mind. there are plenty of investors out there. Thats why they play these games
The deal went through. Deborah and Theo both maintain their 20% and the company is still alive doing $770k last year
Good guys!
Good guys!
Thanks, useful info
wow a uk company chucked in all the british heritage, went to the dark side and started trading in $ rather than £. Im shocked.
That is the comment I was looking for - thanks Justin!
Peter "it does what it says on the tin" jones
Funny how this is actually super important now
Dragons came across badly here.
He worked them as best tongue would let him - well done
Still amazes me in early seasons of this & shark tank that they weren't allowed to field offers from the others & just expected to take it up the a$$.
9:34 when deborah had her second chin temper tantrum and asked ian why she should invest, ian should have dropped his trousers exposing his lion king boxers and said while gyrating his pelvis "because i'll take you for a ride on the wild ian express you cheeky git"
That's sexual harassment
@@garbageparade5144 Key words: "should have" not "could have". And he definitely couldn't due to the reason you stated.
Duncan was quick to get out of this one. He clearly didn't want to hand over all that money then have to fit them to all his health clubs
I was originally involved with Steri clad using silver particles and ultraviolet in hospital wards is not new
Legionnaires disease can be contracted in air conditioning too, that’s were it was first discovered.
Never heard of it 😞
@@MrSpardas You might not be old enough. It was a problem about 30 or 40 yrs ago. Was named legionnaires disease bc a group of legion people, got it at a hotel. They discovered it was being passed through the airconditioning. Don't think its been much of a threat in N. Amer. since then but is always the potential for it.
@@caryulmer5578 it was spread through the spray of cooling tower on the roof which came down to the street level. Me - HVAC technician . for that reason now we have to maintain chemical dosing records of/for the cooling towers ( in Australia)
Thanks, Cinco...
Deborah meaden at her bullying best,she should look back at this with shame,this guy is a gentleman,and didn't deserve this treatment.
Did it go to market?
Very odd, he was supposed to just accept Deborah's offer and not even listen to the rest! This is the first one I've watched where I wanted the applicant to tell the Dragons to fuggle off!
Yes that's how I feel when I offer you a deal
Poor manners and form from the Dragons in this one, particularly Deborah, since when did they expect the pitcher in the Den to immediately accept or reject an offer when it’s the first one that any of them have made and then berate the pitcher for wanting to hear what the other Dragons have to say or offer? This isn’t Shark Tank...
You wait until you see the episode where Peter makes an offer and then sets a timer for the entrepreneur to respond, as if to say "I'm the Big Man with all the money and you have to dance for me."
Shark tank style
Yeah that's one of the many reasons I can't stand Shark Tank it's literally just a comedy sketch
@@CrewGonWild im sure they'll change it just to keep you happy
@@benthompson8256 yeah I'm sure they will 🙄
This must’ve been Peter’s “punk” phase lol 👩🎤🧦
5:10 savage peetah 😂
So is it 2 dragons at 20% each and £75000 input. Each.
This video is proof that Peter should have invested in Tangle Teaser.
How do the Dragons find time to support the businesses they invest in ? The list just gets longer and longer every episode.
Theo Per Fetus, unit of investment
I've watched the US, UK, Australia, Canadian versions of Dragon's Den/Shark Tank. The UK one is by far the one with the most stumbling over their words in their pitches. Wonder if that's an editing thing in the other versions, or if the UK one just has more entrepreneurs that stumble.
60% of a great cooperative deal with the Dragon who most likely can get you rolling is better than keeping 100% and walking out all on your own with no capital.
What a bunch of bullies! It was so obvious that Peter & James are talking up Debra's offer. They obviously have a strategy between themselves how to get a high % when one or two of them are interested in a business.
They weren't clear on that deal. She almost went out, then was convinced to stay in...messy.
They gang on him 🤧 Khan and Jones killed it! He was on driving seat 30% was possible.
Ohhhhh, where WERE you, just when he needed an educated, well informed advocate...?.
Never seen the dragons kinda "force" someone into accepting someone's offer 😂😂
Theo - "I'll put it down to nerves"
Put what down to nerves? The guy seemed polite enough and wasn't rude or arrogant.. just because he didn't take the first offer immediately? Dragons come off a bit like ***** this episode.
@Daz Ediss her profit wouldn't have halved. Her investment would have halved. ISTM the concern with bringing in another Dragon was about control. She had a vision of where to go, but would have to work harder to make it stick
Peter’s hair 🧐
Duncan : I'M OUT , OK ! ( before anybody's even said anything !)
Jenny: I take a shower today already. And for that reason I'm out.
Waiting for the comment that gives us the update on his business
YTD 30.06.19 (most recently available accounts), the business (now renamed HELMORE INDUSTRIAL WATER TREATMENT LTD) made a profit of c. £137,000. He still features on both Theo and Deborah's websites but there is no mention on companies house as to whether they are still (or were ever) bonafide directors in the company.
I hate it when entrepreneurs get an offer, say a half-assed "thanks, but what do others have to say". Negotiate immediately, keep the Dragon interested and do not leave the Dragon hanging and risk losing all offers.
Let's give Theo some numbers:
I begin:
1
What the hell was that leave the man alone 🤯
Lots of rough criticism here for both the inventor and the Dragons. I think he does not realize how to run a business- which the Dragons can bring. But he is still a very smart guy.
they're using such dirty tactics to force him into a bad deal smh, they should be ashamed but they would just wipe the tears with 100 pound notes
Because Peter he said 77% gross his net is 56% so if he dropped 50% he would only get 6% net, he should drop but not equal, just 30% so hes only £20 more and hel be able to afford a beach in marbeya not Blackpool beach with his 6% and thats before the investors return of 30 to 40% of his 6% so he will end up with 4% if hes lucky, 4% of the mean average £90 per shower so a net of £3;60 per shower, he will sell a lot but yeah. dropping 30% he will have 26% to play with befor an investors return so he will hopefully make £15 per shower, but I think his price is right, a company that has a duty of care to only pay an extra £50 each for a product that will be used across thousands of people is not unfair to ask, to be honest this should be legislation, UVC light should be everywhere.
The guy was bullied into that deal,
Terrible, being bullied into becoming a multi millionaire...
@@HIOP0 he was bullied into it but yeah ur right however, its a dumb invention. The same purification can be implimented at the waters incoming supply treating all your water! theres no filter so its not like u need a bigger filter to filter more water. DUMB IDEA
I would get it for my house...
It's well worth the investment.
I must be going bloody mad here but Deborah kinda looking saucy in this clip👀🤣
Yes agree, it was the best she looked
Having worked in compliance I’m unsure what the value of this product is. Legionella is a risk, yes, but it’s one that’s quite easily managed with a good risk assessment, regular flushings, and temperature checks. A small business could easily afford the training for a member of staff to learn how to carry out and record flushings and temp checks and get a contractor in to do a risk assessment every couple of years. A larger business could outsource the whole kit and caboodle to one of the many water management contractors out there. Installing this bit of kit doesn’t remove the HSE requirement to risk assess your water system nor should it stop the need for regular flushing and temperature monitoring, so it’s just a substantial additional expense on top of what an organisation should already be doing which, if they’re doing it competently, is more than enough! Plus the fact it’s a non-standard piece of equipment so if it fails only a small number of people will be able to repair it - yet more expense. All I can see this product doing is engendering exactly the sort of complacency and negligence that results in a legionella outbreak. If this chap had actually got some water management companies expressing interest in stocking the product then maybe it would’ve been a viable investment, but as it stands Deborah and Theo were victims of their own ignorance and the ignorance of the pitcher. They should’ve listened to Duncan, he was a bit fuzzy on the technical detail but he clearly knows there are cheaper and equally effective ways of managing legionella.
The point of this invention is that there is no risk once you install these showers. And, as Peter Jones pointed out, it would be possible to sell the units for the SAME price as a regular shower but still make a significant profit. The question then immediately becomes, why WOULDN'T any hospital etc install them?
aartadventure but the HSE requirements for managing legionella are written into legislature and would remain the same unless the government changed them. Organisations would still have a legal obligation to employ or contract someone to assess and manage the legionella risk - why would they then go to the additional expense of installing non-standard equipment that is no more effective at controlling legionella than making sure your water temp is either too hot or too cold for the bacteria to survive, regularly flushing your outlets, and maintaining the condition of your water system? It’s an over engineered solution to a problem that barely exists - when legionella outbreaks happen it’s almost always due to complacency and negligence, which this invention cannot prevent.
@@greghanson8768 , then why do the hospitals have the filters?
CalLadyQED They’re a general purpose antibacterial filter used by hospitals to manage the risk of legionella and other possible water contaminants. They’re case in point as to why this invention is not a good investment - hospitals spend money installing the filters as one tool in their legionella management toolkit but they still have to meet HSE guidelines and pay someone to assess and manage the legionella risk, check the water temperature at every outlet monthly, flush every outlet weekly, and maintain/replace the filters as needed. The filters are bog standard kit that water management contractors know how to maintain, this is novel technology that would require a separate contractor to maintain/repair when it fails. If he’d come into the Den and said “I’ve spoken to the three biggest water management companies in the UK and they’re all interested in stocking my invention” it might be a more reliable investment. But the fact he wants to try selling direct to the duty holders belies an ignorance about how legionella compliance is managed and legislated.
A generous offer, 40% that means a good offer is around 50% and a standard offer is 80%
Wow they roasted this poor man knowing they can bend him and they done exactly that trying to rinse him for his business and money, that was a little bullish
Imagine going through the entire process of building your brand and applying for the show, and still forgetting your biggest USP
I guess he was nervous at that time
The dragons are rich but they are using cheap ball point pens.
and 'BIC' is a billion dollar company with a product in virtually every home on earth....
And?
I don't see the point of spending hundreds of pounds on a single pen.
It's what you write and not what you write with that counts.
@@youmustbefibbing7376
I agree.
People in the comments who are confused about them being unusual or even mean to him. That's a perception you can have, but this is what conning looks like. They often do it as a team on DD, basically they help each other out on different offers to get insane deals like this. This was an extreme case. They robbed him blind.
Damn, Duncan was out in a couple minutes. Jenny would be proud.
Duncan is always rude and out!
He regretted that afternoon
He's attracting millionaires by getting rid of legionnaires.
This is too underrated
Strange watching this with the pandemic.
Get out.
Duncan: your business is terrible and yor shower head can be made in a factory I'm oat
Shower heads have been around for ages
Your lack of attention to detail has been around for ages.
I agree. We did t worry about leganela in the eighties.
@@patrickthornberry3646 tbf, you didn't worry about a lot of things in the 80s.
Duncan wishing he hadn't pulled out so early
Great!
Would be nice if it is shown when this episode was from, the date and time. It looks like its 10-12 years old at least this episode.
Ducan is gutted he pulled out of the deal early I reckon
Great contribution by Peter there on reducing margins.
It is a very good invention especially in higher risk areas, like care homes. Clearly a market for this but it's going to be difficult to get into the mass market
ahahaqha, the guy was clueless all the way thru, they played him like a pawn.
Really? Look at the business now..
They did 770k last year
what I meant was his negotiating tactics was non-existent.
@@RaccoonNation proof?
CH shows 250k total equity June 19 down from 288k June 18. Will be even less June 20 thanks to corona. The company's in the doldrums clearly.
It's quality when there's no elevator.
Technically there's never an elevator. The one in later seasons is basically just a small room with two sets of doors pretending to be one, everything's on one level in the studio.
@@lotsofspots
Can I call bs. That makes no sense
@@TheAazah It turns out that many things that appear on one's television screen are not, in fact, real, and are just there for dramatic purposes. www.quietrebellion.com/blogs/news/dragons-den
well my friend was on dragons den and I can confirm that it is just 2 doors
Peter got ginger hair
Peters a GINGER
Wow. That's incredibly childish.
"got"? You mean like he had ginger implants?
@@BenjaminGoose he was born ginger he dyes his hair
200.000 units and a million more on their way
Prototypes currently installed on Kamino
4 years of struggle then give nearly half of the business away?
He's stuck though and hasn't made any money. 60% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
Theo said he would like to go in with Deborah. Ian agreed that two were better than one, and Deborah got offended. What did I miss?
Id have left them to it, and walked away and get investment somewhere else. These people are to sensitive.
boring episode
cheap tat
Business renamed to HELMORE INDUSTRIAL WATER TREATMENT LTD, still active - seems like they didn't make millions but they're still operating.
Where are the Jenny comments???????
All you need to do is keep your hot water hot, cold water cold, make sure every outlet is ran for a couple of mins every week. Calculate how often the cold water tank "turns over" so water doesn't just sit but is used, this will happen if the tank is too big/full.
The dragons behaved so strangely in this one.
they look like 5 serial killers
Peter lost his comb
Debra lost her rag