Time Team S13-E03 Rubble at the Mill, Manchester
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- It's only a little over two centuries ago that Richard Arkwright built his first factory for cotton manufacturing in what is now the centre of the city of Manchester.
In doing so, he turned the city into the power house and driving force behind the new cotton industry.
Built in 1780, today what is left of it lies buried beneath a car park. Time Team has three days to locate and investigate one of the most important historic sites in Britain.
![DDG & G Herbo - Nosey [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9Ra0Zc2NlQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The implications were even more significant, and perhaps carefully ignored on this episode. These mills purchased basically 100 percent of US slave farmed cotton. This of course led to the civil war, and the fact that England was complicit, led them to stay out of the civil war. So, this had amazing consequence.
Thank you.
Don't bare any guilt. That was then, Not now. I'm tired of people trying to load guilt on the current generation which is not guilty.
@@Horseyperson12 I think you're misunderstanding how people's concern with history works.
This is a British program. While you are correct the implications are far reaching, they are focused on the Mill, not the cause and effect the mill had in other countries
Thanks for posting.
The site is here:
53°29'14.3"N 2°14'11.5"W
and while there isn't much to see in what is once again a car park, Manchester is one of the cities that has been mapped in 3 dimensions so you can use the tilt button to see the surrounding buildings, including #1 Angel Square, the large triangular building just NW of the dig site.
Helen Geake is cute. The whole thing is good though really.
Samuel Slater memorized the system for spilling cotton and emigrated to USA....Britain had made it illegal to export data about machinery...the Brits called him Slater the Traitor.
Phil still rules
Happy Birthday to Phil on the 25th. of January!!!!
We can try. Don't know if he follows these comments. His other social media seems to be inactive since '15. We can try...
This is not the official TimeTeam channel and I don’t think he will be reading all the comments on hundreds of TimeTeam videos.
What an excellent programme! And what a load of idiotic (and reactionary) folderol in some of these comments! (As for the comment about women below - the mind boggles).
Pff. You're totally right. At least on this thread the commentators aren't calling each other names!
15:59 give her that map back, you muppet.
Heres something I dont understand. They constantly date sights by the coins they find there. I can build a brand new site today, and easily drop a coin from 1969 out of my pocket. A future archeaologist would be dating my site by 50 years off. We all carry around old coinage, just because its still in circulation. Wouldn't that have been the same then???
They mention how long it was in circulation (as in used in the UK.) After so long a coin goes out of use. He mentioned that they used this coin for 25 years so it puts the date from 1775 to 1800. Yes, it's possible that someone kept an old coin but why would they carry around an out of use coin while laying the mortar in a building? Logically it means that the house was built within those 25 years. It's not an exact science but it can help to narrow down the window of time they are looking at.
The coins are usually below the brick work and thus provide a lower bound to say that the building was built after the coin was minted. In this case, the coin was INSIDE the mortar of the building.
Hi Hi
And here's an example of the "faffing about" that Mick complained of. I think the silliness around 37 is because someone lined up the men, told Tony to go and scold them, and then stood behind Tony making faces or something to make all the men laugh. Francis Pryor always has a willingness to be silly and they exploited that to liven up an otherwise dull dig. The social history portion, about how bad the living conditions were, doesn't necessarily reflect anyone's personal politics. No, they don't comment on "how bad it would be" to live in an Iron Age roundhouse but they understood that their viewers would automatically compare recognizably modern homes to how we live today. It's not very astute as social commentary but they were trying to engage the viewer, not write philosophy.
Oh Helen, your hair was too short already. Now you're doing your best to look like a young boy and cut it again.
I love this episode. I have seen all of the Time Team episodes and my favorite Team member has always been Stewart without question and to see a glimpse into his personal life is a real treat in this episode. He is a man I have enormous respect for.
thank you to stewart for his memories about his mother snd her friends who worked in a mill. 🌸
Great episode. Interesting about Stewart's Mum. Maybe she was also a bit of a genius like her son but obliged to spend her life in the mills owing to lack of opportunity.
perfectly possible
What do I find sad is that, growing up in the Appalachians in Maine, we had a mill that was built in the late 19th century still running the same equipment off a single-cylinder steam engine in the early sixties, that's the 1960s. Ratating shafts ran the length of the mill on two stories and each machine was run off of open belts that had been marginally covered by the 1960s. And, the families that worked in the mill had terrible housing and ate what was at that time a poor diet. The mill owners lived in a mansion in our town. My father, a farmer, refer to the mill workers as slaves to the mill owners.
Is the plant or the steam engine still there?
@@gregorymalchuk272 To the best of my knowledge the steam engine is still there in the steam room. The old mill has been turned into a hotel. The steam engine was used as a draw for the hotel. You could check by looking up attractions in Bryant Pond, Maine 04219.
That contemporary description of Arkwright as having "a copious free digestion" suggests that anyone he visited would have hurried to open their windows.
“Rubble at the mill.”
“Oh no, what kind of rubble?”
“I don’t know, Time Team just told me to come in here and say ‘Rubble at the mill’, that’s all. I didn’t expect a kind of British Excavation!”
Nooo body expects the British Excavation.
Archeologist Fang, bring me the soft trowel!
This was beautiful..
exactly what I needed today 😂😂😂
The unbridled joy of wit and silliness combined 🥰😛
@@ruththinkingoutside.707 Lol, glad you enjoyed it. Wit & silliness are the salt & pepper of life 😊
I'm with Francis. I think it was a mill used for Rituals :P
That made me snort mole over my laptop - but in a good way. Thank you!
Don't forget the unknown Roman Villa
Satanic ones 😀
I drive past this site most days and I get goosebumps every time knowing that under all the new and exciting developments there is the very beginning of the industrial revolution
10*. It is a sad statement, that only Sir Tony Robinson should get the honors. Everybody on this team should have been tapped for knighthoods and damehoods....... They have recovered so much lost history, new (ancient) insights, ancient civilizations, trade, economics, agribusiness, etc.
+John Lord He was not honoured for Time Team, he was recognised for his public and political service to the UK.
He and 'Black Adder' co-star Rowen Atkinson were but two of 1,180 Britons that received Birthday Honours from the Queen.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-22904807#TWEET790015
I am imagining Rowan going through the honours as Bean...lol sword stabs him in the eye after nicking his ear.
They were. Professor Mick, massive deal in UK, Also Stewart. Phil honorary PhD.
When I hear car park I picture cars chasing frizbees
baaaaaa, Must be an American, I too think Park, as in grass/Green.
Isn’t most of English History found under a Car Park?? 😉 😂
Those poor people. :( Hell would have been a better living situation than what they had to suffer through every second of their lives. I wonder how many of them went mad, and how many took their own lives if they weren't killed by the machinery. :(
I am very often horrified at how people treat other people and how they're forced to live just for money. I feel it in today's world, too. There are certain things that people need to survive and stay healthy physically and mentally, and these poor souls had none of it. They lived in shit, likely starved, stressed beyond our comprehension, and were worked to death, only to be easily replaced and forgotten - as if their lives, struggles, pain, suffering, and fleeting moments of happiness meant nothing.
It's enough to make you cry for them. Just thinking about their lives hurts my heart.
All that suffering for basically scraps. To top it off this is After the child labor they went through growing up.
And on top of it their "employers" pass for very important people, champions of industrial progress.
But compare living on farms at the time. Children worked there too but for free Way worse. Also the children were the first in the UK to have education by law. It's more complicated than we think. Compare living in modern cities today. Living conditions aren't good, but people stay because they think the opportunities are better.
Im a bit disappointed that they didn't get Matt to live in that cellar for 3 days.. pretending that he worked at the mill
Tony has just too much fun with teasing the boys! Grinn
Helen is teasing a bit.
Communism would be better than that cellar dwelling!
Such amazing luck to find on such a large site the coin from 1775 in a chunk of plaster. Amazing find, this is a great episode that I am only just seeing now.
Thank you for all the episodes you’ve posted.
41:28 is that Beetham Tower going up?
Interesting episode. As a Manchester lad I love local history and the growth of Manchester from Village to City. Wouldn't it be great to see how it looked pre-Industrial Revolution!
As a 'Manc' I am extremely proud of our Industrial Heritage, not so proud that there now stands a massive building that looks like a badly made pot on this site!
They demolished this piece of industrial history?
Just an observation but the previous two episodes are lower in quality than this one. I am going one series at a time. I thought it was me but it's the upload :)
As much as i Love this program, and i really do! A cotton mill "one of the most important historic sites in Britain". ????
After Stone Age and Bronze Age, Romans.
I'd rather know what's under the mill lol.
My Grandmother, living in Alabama, worked in a cotton mill. She worshipped FDR because when he came into office, he raised the workers in the cotton mill from 5 cents to 10 cents per hour and they also got the weekends off.
It was factories like this that ultimately created immense productivity and wealth. And lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. We now take that for granted, but 150 years ago, it was mostly survival for the avarage person.
Seems like people live in a perennial state of malcontent. Have some gratitude.
35:17 this guy is amazing to spot this, I can't see shit
" Prehistory of the Industrial Revolution "
...
" Good Answer ! "
You can also look at Wessex Archaeology's website, they created most of the reports and have put them online.
really? awesome...on my way.
www.wessexarch.co.uk/reports
Anyone else notice how much Arkwtight looks like Phil Harding?
Whenever I hear of Manchester I think of fellow RUclipsr Martin Zero. He does some great explorations in the Manchester area including a few mills and underground rivers. Great channel, check him out.
34:20 Tony swearing on camera... must be a segment filmed after they've been to the pub for lunch and a few pints.
35:50 they're definitely all pissed.
They all seem overly giggly all the way through this episode.
WTF, Tony said "we're up sh*t creek" on live television.
I read Engles' book in community college on the late 70's.
Car Parks. Aren't car parks where y'all bury your Kings?
Phil shouldn't be allotted an hotel room next to Francis... ;-)
Every time they say "Arkwright" I wait for "Granville, fetch a cloth".
I was thinking the exact same thing.
25:40 guy with the pick lol... tap tap tap. looks over shoulder.... nobody looking... gives that archaeology a good smash. what a rebel.
Are you 'avin a laugh? Is he 'avin a laugh? As funny as that is, I think he's just looking to make sure he doesn't hit someone who could have walked up behind him. Excellent safety habit!
My great-great-great-great grandfather was making those bricks or bricks like them, if my family history research is close to right...
I am glad you emphasized the exploitation of women and children and the appalling living conditions, as the source of the wealth of the first factory of cotton manufacturing - ignoring the poverty of these women and children by the wealthy industrialists and the royal family forced them to work in these factories...i hope they make a tourist attraction and monument to selfishness and greed out of this place....
Why do you think it's OK for industrialists to exploit men but not women and children? That's very sexist of you.
I didnt say that - but now you mention it, men by far had better hours and better pay than women and children, which continues to this day in some places. In those times, when a man was done with his shift, the majority stopped off at a bar to refresh himself and relax before heading home. This was unheard of for women - after working at their pitiful jobs, they would go home and continue to work there far into the night - if you cant see this inequality right in front of you, well, you have a problem, mate With men like you still around, no wonder many young women option not to have families these days - good for them-
And what makes you think that societal norms of the day have anything to do with the exploitation of industrialists? Furthermore; the vast majority of the women that worked in Georgian/Victorian factories were unmarried so, no, they wouldn't have had to go home and look after the kids/cook dinner/clean unless that was what their parents expected them to do (So, I'm sure, some did). When a girl got married she was, often, forced out of the workplace and into domesticity, which remained common until after the "emancipation" of the 2nd World War. Is women's role in the workforce a strike against oppression or is it the Patriarchy squeezing a few more drops of blood out of poor, exploited womanhood? You can't have it both ways.
Also; I love the sweeping generalisation that "men" stopped off in a "bar". Again; I'm certain SOME did (As SOME people today have drinking problems) but to say that it was "the majority" ignores the fact that wages were very low, that a married man was often the sole 'breadwinner' for the family and that the Victorian period saw the rise of non-conformism and 'Temperance Leagues' (Please don't now try to argue that Temperance was run by women who, you will later say, had no political influence or power. Turning a wilful blind-eye to glaring inconsistencies is why modern feminism fails so badly).
Let's make this simple. Take a look at any photo of a bar scene from the 1800-1900's. Most of the people you see are men standing at the bar; if a woman is there, she is immediately seen as a "fallen woman". No one in their right mind would think of a man as a "fallen man". Many men at that time refused to allow their wives or daughters to work; it was seen as a reflection on his poor ability to provide. Men were content to have their families live in impoverished conditions so they would not be considered poor providers. Only when men left or abandoned their families, did women out of desperate need, find jobs wherever they could. If a woman were to abandon her family, it was and still is, considered a horrible scandal; she is denigrated and gossiped about in the community for years. When a man leaves a family unprovided for or outright abandoned, nothing is remarked on it - in fact, the woman is seen to have done something wrong if he left. She is blamed for this desertion; this slur against a woman goes on even today. If you do a little research you will see unbelievable misogynistic inconsistencies all through history. I am confident with your bigger superior brain you will find facts much more reliable than fiction.
Yes. Let's make this simple. Prior to about 1960, women weren't, officially, allowed in public bars in many countries. Women were catered for in the more up-market saloon bars. If a woman was in a public bar she was, almost certainly, working there. Perhaps THAT might explain the predominance of men in your "evidential" photographs?
Yes. SOME men DID refuse to allow there wives and daughters to work (Out of pride/conforming to the societal norms of the day/whatever). But it's a bit inconsistent of you to then criticise them for not allowing their family members to go off and work in places that you yourself have described as exploitative and dangerous, don't you think? Are you saying that you think men had an obligation to encourage their wives and children to undertake work that could have seen them maimed or killed?
So.... Every woman that worked, in the past, were "desperate" and "had been abandoned"? The divorce rate must have been astronomical (It wasn't? Oh!). Are you sure that you don't want to contradict yourself and claim that wicked, evil men forced poor, downtrodden women out into work to finance mens debauchery?
Your little fairy-tale claiming that people view individual that abandon their families differently based on their gender is just insulting garbage. I don't know what country you live in (Or planet you live ON) but in every country that I've ever lived in (5 to date), both men and women that walk away from their family responsibilities are pursued through the courts. In fact; there is a increasing body of evidence that would suggest that men are pursued harder than women are and there can be little doubt that it is MUCH harder for a man to gain custody of children. Perhaps women that abandon their families are gossiped about but then I'm sure a man would receive an equal level of opprobrium and, let's face it, the people doing the gossiping will, almost certainly, be other women as they make up 51% of the world population and men don't talk about this sort of thing.
You're right about one thing. Facts are much stronger than fiction. And that is why people that spout the sort of rubbish you've come up with are, increasingly, ignored.
Looks to me like our man Arkwright had a glass eye. Anyone have any information on this? Oh, my great aunt worked in a mill most of her life and had bouts of pneumonia frequently in her retired years. Her husband my great uncle planted a field of cotton before they married and after harvest he bought a car with the profit. The first car in the entire area.
What year was that?
@@gregorymalchuk272 Before the boll weevil came to the southern states, think it was in the thirties.
'Hmmn.'Arkwright was the first to use the steam engine' I was thinking 'Nah,that was Newcomen surely? Then suddenly we get told Arkwright tried and failed and had to use an Earlier engine by Newcomen! Am I missing something?Lol.And if fhe was the 'Father of the industrial Revolution and our modern world''I hope he is still stoking those fires.
Sounds like ankh morpork
Excited to see Phil get stoked about other periods of English history. A real professional.
Francis, doesn't know anything; Guy, knows everything - but we love them both
Great episode.
This should be titled 'Rubble at' mill ' in Lancashire speak ( ish)
Were you thinking of this?
ruclips.net/video/lG75cp6PWfw/видео.html
As an American, always interesting to see the precursors/reasons to/for Britain’s taxation policies, which lead directly to the American Civil War …
And, we lost more men in that one War than both world wars, Korean War, and Vietnam War combined.
Shes a stunner , that helen geeke xxxxxx
@HelenGeake
@15:51 ... "Yeah, but originally, these used to be very nice artisan houses".
Well I guess that makes it okay to cram several families into them when they are run down.
I thin it was more of pointing out that the houses were never meant for the multi family use they were put to as a way to help the audience visualize the kinds of conditions the workers were living in, it's one thing to hear there were multiple families in these buildings and not knowing they were originally designed for single family occupancy wouldn't give the viewer a true sense of the living conditions, but pointing out they were very nice single family homes originally drives it home just how bad the conditions got for the workers.
What has happened to the time team and what is the time line group? Some people are gone and new people are here. Don't understand this.
Write down the names as they appear on screen during the programme or from the closing title sequence ... then look them up on wikipedia .. also check out Time Team specials and Behind the Scenes videos. This will help you get to know the team better.
16:41 I
37:20 41:45 46:27 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
And those weavers were kept occupied by (cheap) raw material, cotton, from the southern states of the u.s. hense Britain favored the south while the French favored the north...to 'throw a kink in the works' and u.k.'s eventual prosperity.
And yet, Manchester was abolitionist. Mill owners and workers underwent great personal sacrifice to support Abe Lincoln and the embargo on cotton from the Southern States. Lincoln returned the support in the form of aid shipped over the Atlantic. We erected a statue of him, eventually.
www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2013/feb/04/lincoln-oscars-manchester-cotton-abraham
Another insight into the UK's North/South divide.
First aired February 5, 2006.
Mortar dating=super cool.
Poor little Stewart, hiding from the Rent Man. And the search for John's Blob.
lol!!
***** the video may have not loaded properly
Google time team and their channel 4 web page will come up.
down the bottom of this page there is official reports of the digs but i don't know how far they go back
Phil and Francis.....LOL
Funny how Guy becomes simply a historian when the subject is anything but Roman?
In one episode they are digging up a bomber from WWII and Guy is described as an Aircraft Historian!
@@GrahamCLesterhe actually is an expert on WW2 aircraft, hence his inclusion in the episodes where they recover WW2 aircraft.
@@jrk4893 Oh, interesting.
Nov 23, 2022. The conditions of the mill workers described in this episode remind me of what I have heard about the current World Cup in Qatar and the horrendous conditions the laborers that built the facilities were subject to, such as these in a Google search : "Highlights from the study show that Qatar's systematic abuse of labor (reportedly more than 6,500 migrant workers have died while supporting infrastructure and construction for the tournament) and the country's blatant discrimination against women..." and "1000s of migrant workers died in Qatar building the stadiums and infrastructure for the 2022 World Cup. "
4 guys watching, 1 man working. Reminds me of the Management guys standing around and the 1 guy working making all their checks, from a Corporation in my past.
Here in the south (USA) we call them "Straw bosses", men with a strand of straw/grass dangling from mouths, standing above a worker in the pit. 🐈
Was cotton being grown locally or was it being imported?
Mostly from India
@@annazaman9657 actually almost all cotton in manchester was from the US southern states. It caused massive suffering when the US civil war cut off supplies
@@martynnotman3467 and it was slaves working those plantations. Many wealthy British families made their money indirectly from slavery.
@@susanrybak7192 and many cotton mill workers nearly starved along with their families supporting the embargo on slave grown cotton. The 0.1% may have benifited, my and most other peoples did not
Theres a statue of Lincoln in Manchester given by the US in gratitude
Its the old boddingtons brewery site.
No it isn't. Its where the new Coop Building has been built.
Benn Yisrael boddingtons is next to Strangeways prison
Tony: 'So this isn't just archeology, it's history.' Duh!
Thats the line that impressed the Queen for his knighthood.
Flammable, Tony, not inflammable.
Oddly enough they have the same meaning.
Does anybody know whether there is a website with any of the reports from these excavations or followups to many of the uncompleted storylines?
They have 2 books out as companions to the show episodes.
Still available !
Communism never was positive nor had practical answers just a reason to rule Seriously bad writing. Never had a negative thing to say about this show til now. Thumbs down
Why do you act like these people had no choice but to work in this Factory when I grew up my mama worked in the shoe factory it was a sweatshop it was bad but she eventually left and got another job which paid better in that really how things work so you want to feel sorry for people cramming into spaces like sardines where they come from what they do before they worked at the Cotton mail
Esta, no doubt some were living in poverty in the country and voluntarily left hoping for better opportunities in the cities. But look up enclosure of the commons in Northern England and you will see many had no choice...they were kicked off the land when ownership was forcibly consolidated. This also drove a lot of emigration at the time.
It seems you have forgotten the passage of time. Workers today, or workers even 40 years ago, have a great deal more legal protection and rights than workers during the Industrial Revolution; there were no safety standards for workers (just don’t damage the equipment and slow production) 10-14 hour shifts, often 5 to 6 days a week. The population was also booming, so jobs were significantly harder to get and pay was correspondingly lower, because if one person wouldn’t work for tuppence, the next person would.
Worst Time Team ever. Instead of archeology we are taught to be envious like Karl Marx was...yuch..I made it 4 minutes in before becoming nasseous..thank God none of the other episodes don't involve this death cult.
Whatever, tata, goodbye.
The "One of the most important historic sites in Britain" gets a bit old after so many episodes.
This show is notorious for contrasting the working and living conditions of 100 to 200 years ago with today, shamelessly promoting the climb towards a Socialist way of life. They even went so far as to point out the "work" of Engels and Marx in this episode, showing us where they met to discuss their Communist dream. The fact is that the form of government had little to do with the working/living conditions of that period. It had more to do with the fact that government officials were corrupt and easily paid off by industry magnates to allow monopolies and horrendous slavery-like conditions for the public that worked for them. Laws to protect workers, and ethical behaviour by the factory owners would have prevented most of that suffering.
***** My guess would be that it came from the same place all money comes from - The Federal Reserve, in the States, and Bank of England in Britain.
Yes Marx was like Hitler and Thatcher at destroying the working class. I'm glad you brought this up, your a true historian. We should get the blue plack that Manchester has put up regarding Marx taken down. The peterloo massacre also needs forgetting, the working class shouldn't have rights.
Bravo sir.
Yes, but you need a government who will make those laws. Perhaps a different form of government would do that.
NutsAboutNames No, that would be impossible - LOL! - according to some, at least.
If you listen to some people universal healthcare and things like laws or rights can only be achieved with a Socialist style gov't. But these are the same people that believe with all their hearts that Socialism is akin to freedom. It is truly frightening, sometimes, to learn what some people have been successfully conditioned to believe and/or accept.
"Laws to protect the workers, and ethical behavior by the factory owners, would have prevented most of that suffering." Ha Ha. You'll never get any of that WITHOUT Socialism.
John Gater takes back the top geophysics credit from Jimmy Adcock. I think the intention was to list the groups alphabetically, but I could easily see John using his influence (and insecurity) to keep the first spot.
They sometimes do it alphabetically and sometimes by seniority it seems. John and Chris Gaffney owned the company that Jimmy, Sue, Emma and all the others were working for. Also, John always gives credit to his team members when their results are good, not a particularly "insecure" thing to do.
liberals fawning over commies... and this was such a good show 5 minutes ago...
Not "liberals". Urban socialists. There is absolutely nothing liberal in anglosaxon "liberals", on the contrary, those etatists and collectivists are actually as antiliberal as you can get.
More like the MAGA crowd pining after 12 people living in a damp 1BR basement apartment.
Archaeology means destroying the evidence. Hence digging the crap out of everything.