Chassis & Suspension - Aptera Engineering Update
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- Aptera is innovating in all portions of vehicle engineering. Today, we give an inside look into our chassis and suspension zone. Stay tuned for clips featuring our other engineering zones.
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This level of transparency by Aptera really leads to trust in the company and product.
As they said, this video is from standard investor presentations.
I love this project, can't wait for the car to be available for the public.
I can't wait for this car to be available for ride reviews by competent independent test drivers.
More engineering videos please! 😀
Agreed!
Did you hear homologation mentioned right away at 0:37. I guess this might be a narrower suspension? What other homologation is required in the chassis/suspension?
How about an owner's club with actual owners?
I love the simplicity of the chassis design and the vehicle overall.
Let’s go Aptera team!
An engineering marvel. Aptera deserves success in launching their first vehicle.
Why do you say it's an "engineering marvel"?
@@daveinwla6360 i know right its Litteraly a trike motorcycle, with a shell over it.
Jesus fing christ. If japan and china already have these things. How hard is it to do the same with solar built in.
@@daveinwla6360 Why do you spend your time biting ankles?
Beautiful! The patented rear wheel suspension system is very impressive. This video shows how much thought and practical research has to be done to bring this wonderful car to the market. We are shown Aptera features that are so new and original, there was no existing hard data available from earlier experiences, until extensive tests were done. This is a familiar problem for engineers entering new territory (I am an EE). The Aptera team needs a library full of knowledge, about chemistry and physics, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, software engineering, finance and mass manufacturing, laws and regulations, etc , etc ... enough to make a sane person mad. And still this most innovative car is going to be huge success! Now, that is team work.
The hardest working "team" is you fanboys. And you know what I'm referring to.
Side impact crash test?
It makes sense to transfer crash loads into the battery structure, but please confirm the interior baffling is flame retardant. I'd rather not see thermal run away from accidents like in early Teslas.
I can't wait for Aptera to hit the market!! I live in San Diego, so really looking forward to seeing some of the first production units on the road... and in my garage :D
i think a "Southern California" model would have been faster and easier to design/produce, especially the SOL version. Those sales could have funded the "world" version that needs all this extreme design work for weather, rain, dust, clouds, etc to contend with. A San Diego commuter would have been faster to production and in huge demand, imho
In your garage? Are you a repair mechanic?
@@daveinwla6360 they placed a order. One would presume.
Keep supporting the repairability minset and you'll succeed. People are fed up with wallgarden software and empirical hold onto schematics and service manuals. Looking forward to driving one
Thanks Aptera Team for sharing!
☀️⚡️Go Aptera go!
Aptera for the world ♥️!
I love that Aptera is volunteering this interview. The suspension needs to have progressive springs and/or magnetically heterological shocks in my opinion, partially in-part due to the different battery configurations and variance in passenger weight distribution and load. I'm an engineer for space aeronautical systems and it feels like cost was a huge contributing factor here, albeit a reasonable compromise. Buyers might turn their backs if it isn't more plush and sacrifice a 0.1 lateral g-force skidpad mark. As it stands, my opinion is track-mode Lotus Exige right now for "comfort" with near-zero side-bolstering on those seats. You need to "plush-if-y" the ride and allow more wheel skirt clearance for normal road use.
8:00 Interesting test jig, now throw road grime and road salts at it and lets see what happens.
Great presentation Nathan, there is a lot of information conveyed in this short video. Love what you are doing Aptera, and how you are going about it!!
☀☀Go Aptera!☀☀
Looking great!
Thank you for keeping us up to date and informed!!
Very nice. Thanks guys!
Amazing content!
I can’t wait!!!
THANKS NATHAN 🤗 FOR THE UPDATE…KEEP UP ⬆️ THE GOOD 👍 WORK 💚💚💚
Thank-you for a very frank and sincere discussion, although it was too short!
Thanks, Aptera, for keeping us posted. Now, we'll wait for Aptera Owners Club (AOC) to break it down for us. Most of us don't understand much until AOC weighs in.
Very good educational video, thank you. Keep up the good work 👍
Thank you! ☀️
You need to cover the high voltage cable tester with road salt and sand to get a real world result. I live in New England and road salt is what kills vehicles well before anything else. Thanks for being so transparent with your development process. It is great.
I’ve got a reservation, just need heated seats and to feel confident that it will support V2B or V2G with a future upgrade before confirming my order. Excited that day will be here soon.
Can't wait for the car to be available!
Available for a test drive, that is.
Nicely done. The dynamics of that big flat base with battery weight in motion are very interesting to consider. I hope you are successful.
This is the kind of presentation that makes me wish I was in a position to invest more right now. I'll keep spreading the word to push for having an Aptera to take out on the road soon!
Sounds good but its been 3-4s. And their Litteraly showing us a 3d model of a trike motorcycle.
I love the procedrual design
That suspension test chig should be placed in an outdoor environment with high heat sunlight And cold weather conditions.
And more importantly road grit.
Suggestion to Aptera for the suspension test jig for the HV cables: put a bunch of UV light and warmth/cooling on the test rig to simulate how the sunlight and environment will affect the durability of the insulation. Save yourself some warranty headaches.
Good idea, but I think the cables will be covered for aerodynamics. Although 20+ years of heat and cold will still do some damage
@@squidbeard492 - Summer heat - temps 1 inch above the road surface (+140°F) - and winter temps in Fairbanks, Alaska, (-40°F) should be simulated.
Add some dirt, road salt, moisture, road chemicals, etc. to the mix too, if the wires aren't going to be completely sealed away from such. The addition of those abrasive and chemical wearing elements can make a big difference over time.
Wow folks, I love this data. In addition to being embarrassingly excited to drive our Luna; you also feed the aspiring engineer in me. Keep up the drive to production!
OTOH, you might just be embarrassed - for having bought it untested.
This is one of those design projects that offers not only great promise of utility to future owners, but also great benefits in the form of fuller pocketbooks and cleaner air for owners and neighbors.
Seldom does a project have so much social promise.
*In 19 years Aptera has made nothing but false promises.*
Respect!
Very impressive. Aptera is hitting a grand slam.
I'm very interested in the curb & suspension tests changed with a heavier payload.
I'm going to double my investment in Aptera soon to stay ahead in the Accelerator Program!
Create an alias (wife maybe) and invest a separate $12000. That should put you in the first 500 or so. This gets everyone closer to the 2000 for production start.
Exactly! Use physical tests to validate the computer model, so that you can confidently tweak your design in the computer. For too long, engineers have been taught to use computer modeling for approximations, and physical modeling for the final product. But that's too slow. If you get the computer model right, you can run experiments in the model instead of building prototypes.
Aptera is building the Production Intent vehicles for validation now.
When will an Aptera visit Oregon?
Great vehicle concept! I wish for Apteras to change the World! I'm a little concerned that if driven in my city, the wheel skirts on Aptivas would be terribly vulnerable to the ravages of our notorious neglected potholes.
I like where it says “Aptera Confidential” and they’re sharing it😁
So excited. I wish I could invest more.
Yeah, me too! What company would you invest in?
Nice, empirical tests are the way to go.
Even though this is not considered a "car", will it go to IIHS for crash testing?
Nice
Wow! This was very informative and gives a lot of confidence in the safety of the Aptera.
Thanks for watching!
Crash tests haven't even been done, yet, and no dummies have been instrumented.
Why are you so confident?
Bring Aptera to Africa!
I like to have a Aptera Dealership in Hawaii. I'll place my order for a Aptera this month.
Does putting a lot of the crash energy into the battery pack increase the likelihood of it lighting on fire after an impact? How do you mitigate those risks?
Crickets...
of course it increases, you're putting energy into it, but the real question is does it increase the risk in a meaningful way. I think the bigger risk is puncture but their packs design seem to be pretty unlikely to allow puncture of cells enough that it would cause a fire.
Take Gamma on a trip around Africa and vlog it that would be so cool to see!
Did he say right at the start that the design team is the validation team for their own design? That doesn't sound good.
I asked for more car crash simulation, I got more car crash simulation. So cool. If you guys are done tinkering with the shape of the car, could you make the high res model publically available? This way the public can validate the aerodynamics.
hehe, the crash simulator programmer is Italian. kewl!
Such exciting times! CONGRATULATIONS with progress on development!
Impressive Simulations, FEA, and Chassis video. Nice durability test. Did you perform temp/vib ESS during any of those operations?
My worry, it seems like alot of Fasteners and Parts in chassis design. Is a single casting NOT an option? Or is that expense pre-planned for after some degree of customer purchase history?
Cheers. Eric
Those graphs were made *2 years ago* according to the page footings.
@Dave InWLA Gr8 to hear that. Do you know if it's a Cast chassis?
Cheers, Eric
@@erickessler6094 - The plans are for the chassis parts to be forged by forcing a slurry of chopped carbon fiber and a plastic binder into 2-part steel dies. See RUclips "Aptera is cutting steel ".
@Dave InWLA thank you! I look at the video, and the discussions and pretty panel shapes were magnificent but related to body, not the underlying chassis , as shown in the 1st 1/3 of this video.
The renderings and the CAD dwgs show many parts and bolted members. I kind of expected the chassis with structural battery area to be 1 or 2 cast components.
Thx again, Cheers!
Eric
@@erickessler6094 I think they designed it in multiple parts so it would break into multiple parts like a formula car in case of a crash. at least that's my theory
I'm looking at the steering column / linkage and wondering why Aptera didn't opt for Steer by Wire like Canoo did. Seems like it would reduce the number of parts which should be a manufacturing cost & time savings, as well as saving weight.
Yes, indeed a DBW steering system could reduce parts and probably weight, but it is not as safe as one with direct linkage of the steering to the wheels.
As with the suspension, they're keeping it passive/simple in the Launch ("Lame") Edition.
Later, much more expensive models, I expect, would feature active systems.
With the cable test do you add dirt,sand and water to the cables to simulate the real world grinding paste that adds to wear and tear ?
This could be the future of transportation.... if it ever gets to market. I hope at this point they are close to working our all the bugs
I am planning on buying a 600 mile version for several reasons - one, I would rarely drive more than 6 hours a day on a road trip and with breaks, that would be under 400 miles.
Second - I want to keep from using the top and bottom 20% of the battery for longevity, meaning that I would have an effective range of 360 miles.
My question - will there be a setting in the software that I could set my own minimum and maximum charge ? Would I be able to toggle it on and off in case I am topping off the last 20% with solar during day to day use ?
Thank you for your answer.
You offer three wheel motors but not three wheel steering. Rear hub motor with a king pin inside the center.
Leave space for five degree steer so that research and development can advance possible benefits later on.
💚💚💚
Good luck! Capital raising right now is rough.
The wire and hose flexing should also be run at negative 30 deg f.
The only concerns I have about Aptera are:
1) Financing towards production
2) Real world suspension results.
This video alleviates #2, especially potholes.
Fantastic work, and thank you for this transparent information.
This is, one of numerous reasons, why I invested in Aptera.
Why does this video alleviate your concern about potholes?
What does it show about behavior with potholes?
Great work Aptera ! Will you bring and sell Aptera in African countries like Kenya theres a whole market of customers and funding from investors in Africa that should not be overlooked in the emerging strong African Economy seems like the perfect vehicle for many African people.
So in the Front Suspension Architecture there are two (2) fluid reservoirs, one of which is obviously the brake one. Any idea as to what the "floating" one might be?
Maybe the windshield wiper fluid?
any news on how it will deal with the width issue for the EU and rhd markets?
IOW, will there be a tandem seating version - like with Elio Motors?
Thanks for the update. Is the aptera being designed to be legal in Australia? Hoping you can come on a tour here soon and get some more investment.
Update?? They showed you what a trike motorcycle has looked like for 20years.
Not really an update.
Testing wires with a moving jig is great and all, but what about environmental factors like long cold winters in more northern climates, and salt? I have a feeling both of those could be trouble for wire insulation. I don't need the power cables cracking when it's -30 F and stranding me.
Note: I say this as a fan who wants the best for this vehicle.
-30°F can be mid-afternoon temps in Fairbanks, Alaska. in the winter.
And how do the batteries perform at that temp? And at the other extreme,
what happens when air temps are 140°F?
I sourced high flex cabling on a few projects in my machine design days. It was always very important to control the bend radius effectively. Will the drive to motor cables be free standing at the flex points or will there be guides to keep them from flexing at too tight a radius?
I expect that the coil of cables and coolant hoses at the rear swing arm is to maximize flex radius.
Temperature extremes plus ultraviolet light do exacerbate the effects of flexing, though.
Time in the Real World does tend to surprise in that regard.
I have concerns about the fender cowling scraping the ground at large potholes, rough roads, dirt roads, mud etc. Is the vehicle tested on these types of rough and damaged road surfaces?
When I first saw the video thumbnail I thought it looked like a lego kit!
I wonder what differences are there in effectiveness, efficiency, cost, service and durability in a connected steering column vs a FBW system.
This is the key area for me. I cant ride in cars with stiff suspensions due to my back. I ride in a civic ex with 16 inch tires, soft seats and soft suspension. Im wondering how that compares to this. Right now it looks like the suspension is pretty stiff.
Yes, it's overly stiff in compression damping, overly weak in rebound damping. Bad choice of shock absorbers.
Just look at the video of the rear wheel motion and how it flings the rear of the vehicle upwards.
Your back would be in pain.
@@daveinwla6360 thats what i was thinking also.
One thing i'd love to know.
Will you make a right hand drive model for the countries where it applies?
There are plans to.
Interesting , no more monocoque, back to a structural frame like the old days, I like it
I still hope you guys will still do real world destructive testing. Not sure if I trust computer sims fully.
Wahooiiii
Since unsprung weight is the enemy of feel and handling. What will happen with so much weight in each wheel?
How does the Aptera handle rear impacts?
It has a much larger crumple zone than most cars.
Where are the side and rear impact simulations?
Will you do real front and real impact tests with instrumented dummies?
They are constructing over a dozen production intent (PI) vehicles to be used f validation and crash testing. Real testing with real instrumentation for real results. I hope it passes with flying colors as any major reworks at this point would really hurt their production timeline.
Aptera draw the future
Has Aptera thought about a regenerative suspension so that the battery gets recharged every time it goes over a bump?
Likely not worth the added complexity and weight.
Rube Goldberg, their newest engineer, is working on it,
@@skipondowntheroad5833 no kidding? It shouldn’t add more than 65 lbs and should provide many miles of extra charge if they can pull it off. I would only add it to the rear wheel. The tech has been around for 30 years on semi’s. The car weighs so little not sure how much energy they can get from it but it seems to bounce a lot so who knows.
I believe regen shocks are in the works at Elaphe, and they could well be combined with active suspension - also an Elaphe skill.
And regen shocks would be irresistible to the Greenies. Maybe with the Lunch (pricier) Edition
@@daveinwla6360 the shock would be the best place for it. I think the problem is most Aptera miles will be on smooth surfaces.
Wow Aptera and Tesla’s next gen vehicle platform are similar in manufacturing technique
2:00 and thats also how tesla will revolutionize car industry as they already show how they'll to do this for their existing models.
Please give us a delivery schedule. You might not keep it but make your best guess. I need it NOW!
We anticipate being able to start production 9-12 months after we meet our current funding objectives. We are hoping for later this year or early next. Your delivery timeframe will depend on several factors, including - how quickly we get to the start of production, our final regional rollout plan, which you will be notified of upon solidification, the date your reservation was made, and your configuration. Your patience and understanding are very much appreciated by all of us here at Aptera. Your aptera.us account dashboard will always have the latest information. We will have a more exact delivery timing estimate closer to the time of production.
To receive your vehicle as soon as possible, we encourage you to configure the Launch Edition Aptera. You may also choose to participate in Aptera's Accelerator program for the opportunity to receive one of the first 2,000 vehicles produced.
Could this suspension cope off road, forest lanes, crappy roads full of potholes, etc.?
3:10 what is meant here? The single swingarm and the four-bar linkage will both move forward or backwards, closer or further to the front suspension, as the spring is compressed or uncompressed. There is pretty much no difference. And because your vehicle is not RWD, there is no effect from the chain pulling on the suspension either, so really what is the difference in functionality between a single swing-arm and four-bar linkage in this case, can someone explain?
3 seats would be a game changer.
Even a tiny seat or infant seat connection point might be helpful for young couples. Once the first kid gets to 5 it might be time for a new car. Seating for 3 adults might be a stretch without a redesign.
Awesome, but the first images (43 seconds in to the clip) showing the front and rear suspension did not have the Elaphe in wheel motors. In the front there was a driveshaft arm going out to the wheel. Why was the imges based on the pre-in-wheel motor solution?
wrong you are
@@casylong8383 Don't think I am. 43 seconds in to the clip.
I believe that is the steering tie rod. It does look wonky since the rim is not filled with motor.
The in-wheel motors have been in the Aptera solar EV since day one in 2019. They just left that part (and a lot of other parts) out of that diagram for clarity in seeing the other parts. What you thought is the drive shaft is really part of the steering linkage.
@@fotoguru222 correct
Going back to body on frame design.
Why don't you make the rear wheels dual? You could qualify for the EV incentives with minimal design alterations
weight reduction and aerodynamics
The claim is that with 4 wheels, more stringent crash tests would be imposed.
IOW, it would be tested as an automobile, not just an autocycle.
@@daveinwla6360 That makes far more sense than weight and aerodynamics
Um… it is my understanding that the whole purpose behind three wheels is not so much the aero drag as much as the rolling resistance produced by deforming the rubber tire. That’s why they get hot.
@@jaybusby8299 - One can reduce the deformation by just putting more air in a tire. The contact patches would reduce in area, thus reducing the traction of each tire,
but hey! - you'd have twice as many rear tires. One could also just use a fatter single tire pumped up hard to get the same contact patch. There are numerous factors at work, but reduced weight and aerodynamic drag get totted out most often as engineering reasons. But reduced stability isn't usually mentioned unless the single center wheel is in front. In that case (e.g. the English "Robin"), applying the brakes while rounding a curve would send the car rolling on its side. I suspect that with the single center wheel in the back (e.g. Aptera) accelerating hard while rounding a curve would also send the car rolling on its side.
If you want to sell vehicles outside the southwestern deserts of the US, & in sunny California, please pay attention to corrosion protection. Engineers with aerospace backgrounds would be beneficial. Put your vehicle in a wet cold climate, & suddenly all your testing in ideal conditions becomes invalid.
First question that popped into my mind is the elephant in the room. If this is going to be manufactured in different countries, whether it’s some of the pieces or many of them, then does that mean the price of that car is going to be drastically different in let’s say Cambodia than it is in the United States? I love the Aptera but I do think it’s fairly expensive for the common family. As of yet there’s no real policy for rebates for anyone and because it’s a three wheel it’s not eligible for any of the local underserved communities. I’m hoping policies are being influenced and that Aptera is looking through a larger scope as to access.
Aptera is trying for a different kind of production than most. Instead of building a few factories and shipping from a distance i do believe they intend to have portable assembly lines that they can set up in basically any warehouse
Tesla's model is about right. One plant per continent - maybe 3-4 would cover the world.
The track needs to be narrowed.Ok for the US,too wide for European roads.
All these comments seem like they are the same person on different accounts
Haven't 3 wheelers been proven to suck? If you hit the point of wanting to flip over you basically flip immediately.
You need to know that tadpole 3 wheelers are completely stable. The reverse 3 are awful.