Plural? I saw only one engineer and what he said was very basic stuff. There was no info on how to control the battery temperatures, which is needed for fast charging and when it is cold/freezing. It is also common to operate each module with its own controller and then have one or two more boards do the overall interaction between these battery modules. The only difference is that they customize their system for the vehicle and can keep the optimization iterations much smaller and faster and have maximum control over the entire implementation.
@n1vca , you have to accept that Aptera knows their audience, i.e., don't get too technical or detailed. Just a brief summary of what they've been doing. Think of it like an employee spotlight within the company.
Thanks Andrew for answering those important questions about Aptera's battery management systems. It is great that Aptera is developing their own BMS because Aptera is such a unique EV, focused on being super efficient, while being able to recharge the battery pack with its onboard solar array.
Yet another fascinating online course into high efficiency solar EV engineering. I know ten times more tech about the Aptera I have pre-ordered than I will ever know about my Tesla.
As a firmware engineer myself, I was curious if Aptera plans to open source their stack? At least parts of it, similar to how FrameWork does with their laptops :) It definitely helps with the open and repairable ecosystem and can provide a benefit to the company since they can get community input on features and bugs more easily and even have the community assist in adding features and fixing bugs.
@@narphizoid Well, they don't have to open up the bootloader, there is a difference between open source firmware and an open bootloader. They can open source their firmware and software while retaining control of it all. All contributions to the code base still need to be reviewed and approved by the maintainers.
@@adimchionyenadum2962, The BMS firmware is a minor part of a car, and nobody could create clones of the Aptera with just the BMS firmware, because they would need the legal right to copy the hardware design as well. Yes, they could create their own BMS hardware design and then use Aptera's firmware, but if the licensing is GPL, any improvements that they make to the code have to be shared back with Aptera, so it should help improve Aptera's code. In the long run, collaboration through open source often lowers the development costs for everyone, so it is a win-win situation. Sadly, the idea of open source is not common in the auto industry, but there are a number of laptops being sold with open source firmware: FrameWork (EC), Purism Librem 14 (Coreboot & EC), MNT Reform (all open hardware and firmware), System76 (Coreboot & EC), Olimex TERES-64 (all open hardware & firmware) and all Chromebook use Coreboot. For example, System76 created EC firmware for its laptops. Then, Purism took that code and adapted it for different chips to run in its Librem 14. At the same time, Purism was paying one of the principal Coreboot developers and his code commits help System76 that also uses Coreboot. Even though both companies are competitors, they realize that sharing their code makes their products better, and creates more loyal customers who appreciate the freedom they provide. I already want to buy an Aptera, but if Aptera open sourced its firmware and software, I would be 10 times more excited about buying the hardware, because it would mean that we in the community could support the car forever and keep upgrading and customizing the software even if the company went bankrupt.
It's great to hear you guys have the expertise to do this in house so you're not beholden to just making someone else's product fit/work in the Aptera! Thanks for the update.
Over the air updates really reduce risk, once you get a meaningful number of units produced, and you want to be able to update the infotainment even if "it's fine" when you ship it, but the reality is, everybody has had to patch that stuff. In fact, being able to successfully update the infotainment is more important than having all the features working. Also, a 120V 15 amp plug would be fantastic. 240V if you ever build the 100kwh rolling pack, because somebody is going to try to power a construction trailer, or an RV.
After hearing Andrew, so pleased I invested in this company. Can’t wait to get my Aptera. Eight circuit boards instead of 1 or 2 concerns me. A major source of problems comes from interconnections.
Separate circuit boards for each battery module is pretty standard for EVs. Each one is close to the cells and connected to them with short wires. They communicate with the master BMS via a data link. This can be better than running long wires to hundreds of cells from a central BMS.
@@georgepelton5645Exactly! Long wires to a central BMS raises the risk of cross talk and line interference plus chafing while having a separate board for each module communicating over a common bus with a central master BMS has multiple benefits including allowing for one type of central master BMS to be used on battery packs with different numbers of modules so that they don't have to reinvent a new BMS for every size battery pack they use. This should help speed up software development and simply updates since they won't have to be writing multiple custom updates for a variety of different master BMS units or control modules. This should also allow for faster rollout of the different sized packs in the future since it will be a more flexible system capable of controlling a variety of different capacity packs. Watching Sandy Munro's Engineers discussion on battery pack design and evolution will give one a better understanding of the tradeoffs and benefits. Best!
Nice commentary Andrew. I have some LiFePO4 batteries and I know how vital a BMS is to keeping batteries healthy. Most of those batteries come with a built-in BMS, making system design a bit easier. I can't imagine all of the considerations necessary when designing a BMS for a system with very specific limitations. What a nightmare.
Will the MPPT charge controller be able to handle external solar input and or could a second MPPT be added? You know, in case someone wanted to do a Solar Cannonball Run??
🤓 YES! CEO Steve Fambro mentioned in a video that the MPPT board will have headroom for additional solar panels. However he also mentioned that an external connector may not be included in the first vehicles. When it gets added is still TBD. Perhaps an enterprising electrical engineer could develop an aftermarket kit for that.
@@fotoguru222 Thanks! I wonder if that would be on the same MPPT i.e. would need to match voltage (parallel) or would stack voltage (serries). And also, how much headroom? 200w 600w or 6000W 🤔
@@solarcannonballrun They haven't released any specs on their MPPT solar controller or what range of solar panel specs it could handle. However if I remember correctly the controller could handle another 700 watts or so, potentially doubling the output of the builtin cells.
Do you think it would be possible for an EU member to setup a satellite production facility for EU product consumption in order to keep any tariffs at a minimum?
My betting is that the first EU fab will be at or close to CPC in Modena, once EU/UK homologation is sorted out, which may need a few vehicle tweaks and vehicle class regulation updates. There will be no need for workarounds unless you want to bring a US model in as a personal import. Equally, Chris A has said that anyone on the Accelerator programme could delay their actual vehicle until the exact spec is ready, so members in EU/rest of the world could still have a place, get all of the benefits (build book, numbered Aptera, etc.) without having to take one of the first 2000 off the line, which would be collected from Carlsbad, shipped wherever, import taxes, and so on. 2026 looks like the EU/UK model year, which is a shame because I was hoping to take mine to NUFAM in Karlsruhe in early Autumn 2025 - the next NUFAM would be in 2027...
A lot of this was intuitive knowledge to me. I knew what a BMS is and how it is obviously necessary for an EV but it was still cool to hear an on depth explanation. All of this is such recent technology. I remeber when kit built EVs were chaining 12 volt lead-acid batteries together. This is so much higher tech than that. So it strikes me that this is what it takes to replace ICE tech. The technology itself is simple, but a bank of processors more powerful than what we used to land on the moon is needed to control and tweak it for maximum efficiency. The talk about balancing the batteries, for instance. That's obvious ehen you think aboit it, but it's so tedious. All of that work needs a computer to handle. Of course ICE cars are run by computers too these days, but it's still interesting.
Just a comment that a cell phone has FAR more processing power than what it took to land on the moon. ' “In 1978, the Cray-1 supercomputer cost $7 million, weighed 10,500 pounds and had a 115 kilowatt power supply. It was, by far, the fastest computer in the world,” Longbottom writes of the device, designed as the flagship product of Seymour Cray’s high-performance computing company. “The Raspberry Pi costs around $70 (CPU board, case, power supply, SD Card), weighs a few ounces, uses a five watt power supply and is more than 4.5 times faster than the Cray 1.”
@@n.brucenelson5920An original Prime Mainframe though it could move massive amounts of data was less powerful then the original PC-XT though it needed a massive amount of power and was so heavy it was delivered in multiple sections each requiring a hoist to move it and required a 3 phase power feed. The two we had used 8.25 inch floppy disks and we would joke about another power station having to be brought online every time we fired them up. No printed circuit boards but solid platinum hand wired traces. We only fired them up when absolutely needed for legacy work which required a tech monitor that process sometimes for hours until the power supplies warmed up and stabilized enough to chance turning the processing and drive units on. Now better than that fits in the palm of your hand, boots about instantly and will run for hours to days on a small battery. Things sure have changed since the 70's and 80's. Best!
Andrew mention that there are eight circuit boards that make up the BMS -- one for each of the modules and one as the main "brain" (battery contol unit) of the BMS. What's the function of the eighth board? Maybe something to do with solar power management?
Are you guys planning on programming discharge and charge limits to preserve the battery pack? I've always heard that fully charging and discharging degrades the battery faster. GM on the 2014 Chevy Volt implemented this feature and limits charging to 90% and discharge to no lower than 15% I believe.
To my knowledge all EV batteries preserve a small margin at either end of the pack to preserve battery life. But as an owner you should only be using the middle of the pack's capacity anyway say 70 to 40%.
@bearclaw5115 On the Volt, the nominal charge range is programmed into the software. So if you charge to 100%, the battery will only be at 80% or 90% but your gauge will show full. Having a factory hard limit takes away the guesswork but there is.a cost to range. I'm hoping Aptera implements something similar or, at the very lease, gives us the option to program our own limits. If they're basing their ramge off of max limits of each pack, then these batteries aren't gonna last that long. I pre ordered the 600-mile ramge, which has the 60kw battery. Usuable battery should be about 45kw or 450 miles to preserve the battery. Maybe they will add a little more capacity so I can get my full range of 600 miles but with a 75kw battery that has 60kw usable.
I missed the word cooling or heat conducting liquid that is initial part of a modern EVs battery pack .... looks like they might not have a heat pump and preconditioning system for fast chanrging in low or freezing temperaturs ... sounds like that car will only make sense in sunny califiornia and remain a national and regional product, which is probably also closer to reality when trying to manufature these on a larger scale. I love its aerodynamic shape and low roll resistance design and wonder ho it would do at higher speeds here on a german highway with no limit?
It has a standard ac compressor and a resistive heater and a separate liquid cooling zone for the battery pack that can cool or heat the battery. Aptera has said a heat pump will be a future update. I asked Aptera's AI assistant, Lunabot, "Does Aptera have battery preconditioning ?" Lunabots response.. "Yes, Aptera has a battery management system that includes a heater inside the battery coolant circuit to protect the battery in extreme cold conditions." This response helpful to you? That helped 👍That didn't help 👎 AI Agent · a few seconds ago
Aptera's battery pack is heated/cooled via a bottom plate and is fully temperature controlled in all conditions. This includes preconditioning. The vehicle is fully operational for it's intended world market, all year round.
@@n1vca You're very welcome. Heating will be either from the motors or resistive, and cooling via airflow over the aluminum belly pan or by air conditioning as needed. Aptera has made these choices in a time saving effort to market, because the development of their own heat pump would be an additional two years.
Does the BMS have passive or active balancing? Does the BMS use resistors to burn energy on the higher voltage cells during the top end of the charge cycle or does it use capacitors to transfer energy between the cells? Will you offer lifepo4 battery options? Will you have an option to set lower charge rates to extend the cycle life of the batteries? Lithium ion for example, charging up to 4v instead of 4.2v per cell will create a slightly less storage capacity but the cycle life nearly triples. Can't wait to get my Aptera. Hopefully I fit in it lol.
I think it is unlikely that Aptera will offer LFP batteries due to their lower energy density, because more weight would reduce the energy efficiency of the car. For example, EVE Energy's NMC 2170 are 290 Wh/kg, whereas LFP is only about 160 Wh/kg. However, some of the new LMFP and M3P batteries are getting up to 230 Wh/kg, so it might become a viable option in the future. NMC has a lot more capacity degradation at higher voltages, so I assume that Aptera will limit the max voltage for normal charging or at least offer an option for the user to limit it. Ideally, the charging is usually limited, but the user can can select to charge to 100% before going on long trips.
I don't know a whole lot about what battery charging systems there are but it seems like a charging system that is more parallel than the discharge makes a lot of obvious sense. It seems like Aptera, who has taken efficiency to its most extreme point, could also have taken this concept of charging in parallel to its most extreme point. Something that could handle 200A but distribute it with such detail that not a single lithium ion within a cell amounts to more than 1A.
Higher Amp values means thicker wires and more waste heat for a given power. They're actually being more efficient going with higher Voltage. W=VA (or P = VI if you prefer). Ideally you would bulk charge the entire battery assembly as much as you can with the highest voltage you can, then balance the smaller components (either pack level or cell level) at the max voltage those components can handle at that level. Parallel components can be charged simultaneously but power is limited by the lowest max current any one component can handle including the wiring.
@@corneliusvaI’m looking to see what the weight differences are between the different vehicles. I’m under the impression that each module in the LD is approximately 40 pounds. If that’s correct the battery weight in the LD would be 240 pounds.
Thank you Andrew/ Aptera! Nice to start our understanding of components/systems. I would like to know “ while plugged in outside charging via either 120v/240 v and DCFC will the solar trickle charge continue to charge simultaneously or will it turn off the solar charge? Originally it was “rumored” to not be able to solar charge while DCFC charging. Thx !
That's not a rumor. I heard that direct from Aptera. DCFC will monopolize the charging capability of Aptera's battery, charging at 40 to 60 KW and bypassing Aptera's internal charging circuits. (The peak solar charging rate will be 0.7 KW, less than 2% of the DCFC rate.) However, solar power will be added on top of any AC charging you do.
Nice video! Maybe wrong place to ask, or maybe I've missed it somewhere, but are you looking at doing a 48v auxiliary system to reduce power loss like the cyber truck? I know 12v is better for off the shelf, but since everything is custom, I hope the 48v system was considered :)
@@maj429like he's said in another video, a heat pump would be nice, but they're very complicated and take up more space. It would save quite a bit of energy, but they don't have the funds currently for justification for the heat pump system.
More than likely if the individual module BMS board has an issue, the central module will alert the vehicle to a problem and would probably not allow charging or discharging until the bad board is replaced. It's a very unlikely problem, but depending on how the packs are built, the module BMS should be replaceable.
@Flyingwigs sounds good some gas cars things just stop working not telling you which board is bad, techs have to look at wiring diagrams. SOME CARS TELL YOU WHAT CIRCUIT OR BOARD IS BAD. APTERA SHOULD HAVE LESS A MESS AND WIRING.
Aptera really needs to integrate rhe brake control with Regen braking like Tesla so one pedal driving stays consistent when the battery is full by automatic compensation using brake disc pressure. I imagine that the BMS needs communication with the ECU braking program. Modern EV's braking behavior is a whole new concept and step above ICE with fully developed one pedal driving. Most EV's still have medicore regen braking programming.
Aptera really needs to integrate rhe brake control with Regen braking like Tesla so one pedal driving stays consistent when the battery is full by automatic compensation using brake disc pressure. Modern EV's braking behavior is a whole new concept and step above ICE with fully developed one pedal driving. Most EV's still have medicore regen braking programming.
for safety and longlife batteries: Na-Ionen akkus mixed with 30% ultra caps (for recuperation) -> they are cheaper, non critical with temperature and better for nature...
Unknown but probable. They will already have to deal with four solar inputs, only two of which are guaranteed. Roof, Dashboard, Hood and Hatch, hood and hatch optional. Those four inputs will have to be managed and balanced the same as the six battery packs. It would be simple enough to add a fifth input for extended solar, and a sixth for extended battery. And they've already said they plan on an external solar option.
Can the optional hatch solar input be reconfigured to accept externally solar trailer ? Going long distance road trip with extra 3 square meters sounds like a dream.
When you say 'balancing' the batteries in series, is it the same thing as conditioning the batteries? I used to take LiPo batteries to the radio repair shop where the tech put them on a conditioner. The computer printed a sticker with its new capacity and date. Usually they would condition to more than a new battery spec at 104-108% of rated charge. When the capacity did degrade enough the battery would be disposed of.
Not exactly related, but I'm curious if the over the air updates will have a 5G receiver or a 4G. And if its 4G, can we upgrade to 5G, incase networks drop 4G.
I think it's unlikely that 4G is going to be dropped anytime soon because 5G has to have much closer towers than 4G and 4G can go for a very long way in terms of distance between towers. T-Mobile uses some very long range ones through West Virginia and those are 4G
5G devices are backward compatible with 4G. 5G was hyped up and rushed out so that consumers would "demand to download a movie in seconds" (despite needing more than an hour to watch it AND they stream it on their device, they don't store it). Those sales funded 5G antenna deployment. I'm a former firmware engineer. 5G and Live Update are dystopian. If people knew the information that Google had on them AND if it was the government, not Google, they'd go out into the streets and begin randomly shooting people with their boom sticks. Sell it as convenience however and consumers are EAGER to surrender their Rights ...and mine.
Their website still has the option to invest as of 8-March-2024. Wishing Aptera much success! It's still a long shot but I do so want them to make this car a reality.
Question: I have a home with solar. I'm hoping to get a home battery system. If I were to plug the aptera in at home, once it is fully charged, is there the ability to send excess solar charging to the home battery system?
I wouldn't count on it with the LE models. Once the US has a V2L standard in place, I think Aptera will add that capability down the road. I know they have discussed it.
Can the BMS be replaced if it fails? How much it would cost? Could owners who don't live in southern California repair or replace a failed BMS by themselves?
A huge issue i see with modern EV battery packs is that if one or two modules in a pack have gone bad, they simple replace the whole pack rather than the individual modules that are causing a problem. The end result being a substantial expense on the user side. You guys mentioned there are 6 modules in the pack. If one of those modules goes bad have you guys built the system so that you can easily swap out the offending module rather than replacing the entire pack?
Hi! If I'm driving and the sun is shining, does the energy charge the battery, then the battery energy goes to the wheels? Or can power go directly from the panels to the wheels?
Heya Bruce, I would say, maybe? Could you not build a buck converter setup to boost the voltage to what the inverter needs? You could probably build a 10Khz control loop to maintain an output voltage pretty good, but it would def be a pretty neat and custom ckt. Aptera, want me to build one for ya? Might be more efficient... ;)
@@jordanyamamoto9350 🤓 If you know enough to build an inverter, you should know the solar MPPT charging circuit output and the battery loads like the motor controllers are both connected to the battery terminals and monitored by the BMS. Where the energy goes varies millisecond by millisecond depending on the instantanous variable loads. If the load is demaninng more than the solar is providing that instant, the solar power is going to that load with the battery providing an extra that's needed. If the solar is outputing more than the load requires, the extra solar output will charge the battery, assuming it's not full.
Yeah, it's the latter. If you're driving, the solar charge will probably all go to the wheels. If you're stopped, anything that isn't used by the system will go to charging the battery. You can say that the solar can drive and charge the battery at the same time but that isn't technically true. The solar power isn't wasted though, unless you aren't moving and the battery is 100% full. But the solar cells can't drive the wheels all by themselves unless you're like creeping along in rush hour traffic. You will always lose charge while driving and gain it while parked.
@@richardryley3660 Nope - we've been told to think of the solar system as a "trickle charger" that adds charge to the battery. It cannot generate enough current at any given moment to directly power the motors.
No, due to power density and cold weather performance issues in achieving the performance goals of the vehicle. Aptera will be useing 2170 811 chemistry NMC cells in these first two vehicles. The 600 and 1000 mile nominal range vehicles will use taller batteries with the same diameter and chemistry.
Aptera plans to use longer cells in the battery pack for 1000 miles of range, but the same number of cells, placed in the same lay-out and using the same wiring harness. I guess the height of the battery box may be made smaller for the packs with shorter cells. But they are aiming for a minimum of redesign between the energy sizes, so cooling systems and electronics etc. should be the same. A pack with less energy and a shorter range, can be made by omitting some of the cells. Source I think I heard it in one of the interviews of either CEO's or engineers from Aptera, put on RUclips this year 2024.
Yes, I remember the same thing, but I was referring to the firmware and software changes. I mean the firmware/software will have to know what size battery it is working with. @@NikolaiBeier
A few parameter values could be different between different packs, but the program/algorithms does not need to change. The safe way to guard the cells against too high a charge and too low a discharge does not depend on the estimated capacity or the estimated 'state of charge'. @@Rang62455
It's true, 4 kg in weight is nothing, but you can have 100 kg of solar panels on the roof at home, it costs you nothing, and if you only drive around the area, you can charge it in the evening. You don't have to painstakingly manufacture panels and glue them to an aerodynamic surface and painstakingly test how long it will last. You could easily sell cars, your big advantage of the car is its low weight, great Cx. This is how you beat everyone. Now the main price will be the deciding factor, and you can reduce this by simplicity. In the end, everyone is about money and you need to produce as soon as possible.
@@jirivaculik1152 "you can have 100 kg of solar panels on the roof at home, it costs you nothing, " I don't understand how you claim this? However, the Aptera design has far fewer parts than conventional design and a great example of simplicity in a vehicle.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Yes, your design is excellent, you have few parts. That's great, but I've seen a lot of videos where you glue and test solar panels. It must be a lot of work and you don't know what it will do in 5 years. No one has much experience with it. And if there is a problem, it will kill you. Without panels, you could already sell cars and gradually complete this technology. How much will the panels with assembly cost?
@@jirivaculik1152 Aptera has a patent on their solar panel assembly process that is likely to start bringing in revenue independent of the vehicle manufacturing. Sunpower has a 40 year warranty on panels made with the same cells - the longest in the industry. Aptera has been doing testing of these cells almost since they started. As a continuous improvement company, the were able to move on from the original plastic coated cells to a much more robust glass design that may be the most scratch resistant portion of the vehicle. I am really excited about what is coming.
Nothing wrong with being a bit risk averse and adopting 'late stage'. Won't affect you but will add a bit more delay for early adopters---again freedom of choice.
I like Aptera, but for a startup (that is crowdfunding through various portals) the upper management is paid a bit too high right now. Over 200K salary is a bit too high - they are already getting A TON of stock and stock options right now...
Not really on a cell level, any cells in parallel cannot be distinguished from each other, only a sort of average state of health can be determined, it bugs me that telsa also says management on a cell level which isn't true as yet. Do you know the individual voltage of each cell.......no Do you know the temperature of each cell........no The two most important values are not known at a cell level............lets get real
Hmmm, Mine says 2025. Probably not a hard time frame either. I want mine ASAP too, but I'm not going to complain about it. They aren't Ford, they haven't been around for a literal 100 years, it'll probably take a hot minute before they're ready fthe public.
@@micbroc6435 My wife and I both rode in a prototype close to what was originally announced in November of 2021. Due to the surprising demand, the production method and the quality of the vehicle has gone WAY up compared to what was planned. The body tooling is finished and the production parts were on public display in Paris this week. They will still go through validation testing, and unlike Tesla in 2008, Aptera will be shipping fully validated vehicles.
Table stakes. That they think doing their own battery management impresses customers means they aren't a serious manufacturer. Hobbiest ebike and e-motorcycle builders do this.
Am I the only one who sees those boards over engineered? Maybe they are test articles but those vintage test points are expensive and assume that humans with oscilloscopes will hand test each board as opposed to automated test points. If Aptera plans to have a car on sale in 2024 those boards are a red flag. Also the strategy of developing the BMS from the ground up by an inexperienced team is risky at best. A much safer approach would have been to buy the expertise from a company that has done BMS in the past and that they learned something from any battery fires that they may have had. At least hired some of those engineers that went through all of that. Battery packs and BMS systems need a lot of attention to detaip. Don't setup yourself for failure. Just my 5 cents
Chris Anthony has already co-founded a battery company and it is now public. He knows as much about battery tech and BMS design as almost anyone. Perhaps you don't know the history of the employees Aptera has had working on the development. The entire project has set risky and ambitious performance goals before themselves, but it is clear that they are generating a great deal of new IP that will find application even beyond the vehicle market.
Why would you 'love to see' stats on that adamc? Are you one of those EQUITY NUTJOBS that always advocate dumbing down everything rather than evolving knowledge and expertise to ever higher levels? I was raised to be color blind and never focus on the color one's skin, eyes, hair, etc. It's the 'color' of one's character and the knowledge, achievements of their brains that's the most important along with real human being focused principles! Aptera is being designed and built by very smart, very well-intentioned people in a way that should benefit all people...even those who won't have one.
I am quite certain of it at this point. The body tooling is done and parts are being assembled. The validation test results are likely to be as modeled and finally, based on experience with prototypes this is a FUN vehicle. Once this is generally realized, the market for it will explode.
There has to be a body first - then validation of the production intent models before they start shipping. Tesla didn't do that and shipped Roadsters as "shipping models" when they knew the transmissions would break on acceleration. They almost went bankrupt before they got that fixed.
I think it's smart to put time and effort to making videos likes this with investors money than making actual production vehicles. it's important to gain trust from investors. because you can't make a good living without money.
@@JS-qn4dy Aptera is not Elio. Take a look at the Body in Carbon that Aptera showed publicly at a trade show in Paris last week - made with tooling paid for with investor funds that had individual tools made from 100 ton steel blocks costing millions - each. And then look at the patent portfolio already granted - that will bring in its own independent revenue stream beyond the vehicles themselves. There is no "instead of" here. It is shameful to suggest.
Comparing Aptera with Elio is an instant give away that you know nothing about either company. Hint - one place to look is the respective manufacturer alliances and another is to compare the patent portfolios.
Aptera restarted at the end of 2019, at most they have been at it for just over four years. Don't forget that COVID happened in this time frame too.... This is nothing like Elio.
Aptera has wonderful people doing some amazing design and engineering. I really enjoy their sharing, transparency, frequent updates and am very excited to see the PI builds being tested in CA. @@thumperoux1528
Sono Motors never explained their ongoing process the way Aptera does: Aptera's transparency is what continues to generate interest (and investment) in the vehicle. Aptera is just now beginning the process of building "production intent" test vehicles: Once they're built, testing and adjustment can begin. When that process is concluded, THEN they can think about starting series production. Even the big-name legacy manufacturers take YEARS to introduce new models, and they already have factories and supply chains in place!
Why would you make a negative nancy statement like that, especially in a dialogue zone where mostly enthusiasts are sharing their knowledge and excitement? "Mankind will NEVER walk on the moon!" Why don't you just focus on your Toyota(s). I have one now, have had a total of three Priuses and love them, but tech is rapidly evolving and I'm on board!
Bro idk you're missing deadlines like crazy. I can't follow you guys any more. I'm tired of hearing "next year... Then nvm" "when we make this money.. Then nvm" I'm out. Going all in for a cybertruck
Good luck. I'm sticking with Aptera. Hope to get one of the first production vehicles. Should be end of 2024 or first part of 2025. Currently 97 on the Accelerator leaderboard
Love hearing from the engineers!
Agreed, it's rare we get this kind of in depth update with a startup!
Plural? I saw only one engineer and what he said was very basic stuff. There was no info on how to control the battery temperatures, which is needed for fast charging and when it is cold/freezing. It is also common to operate each module with its own controller and then have one or two more boards do the overall interaction between these battery modules. The only difference is that they customize their system for the vehicle and can keep the optimization iterations much smaller and faster and have maximum control over the entire implementation.
@@n1vca🤡🤡🤡
@n1vca , you have to accept that Aptera knows their audience, i.e., don't get too technical or detailed. Just a brief summary of what they've been doing. Think of it like an employee spotlight within the company.
@@n1vca We have had videos on this subject from other engineers in the past.
Thanks Andrew for answering those important questions about Aptera's battery management systems. It is great that Aptera is developing their own BMS because Aptera is such a unique EV, focused on being super efficient, while being able to recharge the battery pack with its onboard solar array.
Im willing to invest the second I see ONE on the road.
@@carsonnak4842 There have been more than one on the road. Or did you mean a production model because you want the reward without the effort and risk?
Keep up the great work to ALL APTERA TECHNICIANS/ENGINEERS! You got this! 👍🌞⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Yet another fascinating online course into high efficiency solar EV engineering. I know ten times more tech about the Aptera I have pre-ordered than I will ever know about my Tesla.
As a firmware engineer myself, I was curious if Aptera plans to open source their stack? At least parts of it, similar to how FrameWork does with their laptops :)
It definitely helps with the open and repairable ecosystem and can provide a benefit to the company since they can get community input on features and bugs more easily and even have the community assist in adding features and fixing bugs.
I wouldn't think it prudent for small startups like Aptera to open source their softwares.
@@adimchionyenadum2962 And what evidence do you have to support that claim?
And I guess, tell that to Framework?
I'm wondering about liability/warranty issues...
@@narphizoid Well, they don't have to open up the bootloader, there is a difference between open source firmware and an open bootloader. They can open source their firmware and software while retaining control of it all. All contributions to the code base still need to be reviewed and approved by the maintainers.
@@adimchionyenadum2962, The BMS firmware is a minor part of a car, and nobody could create clones of the Aptera with just the BMS firmware, because they would need the legal right to copy the hardware design as well. Yes, they could create their own BMS hardware design and then use Aptera's firmware, but if the licensing is GPL, any improvements that they make to the code have to be shared back with Aptera, so it should help improve Aptera's code. In the long run, collaboration through open source often lowers the development costs for everyone, so it is a win-win situation.
Sadly, the idea of open source is not common in the auto industry, but there are a number of laptops being sold with open source firmware: FrameWork (EC), Purism Librem 14 (Coreboot & EC), MNT Reform (all open hardware and firmware), System76 (Coreboot & EC), Olimex TERES-64 (all open hardware & firmware) and all Chromebook use Coreboot. For example, System76 created EC firmware for its laptops. Then, Purism took that code and adapted it for different chips to run in its Librem 14. At the same time, Purism was paying one of the principal Coreboot developers and his code commits help System76 that also uses Coreboot. Even though both companies are competitors, they realize that sharing their code makes their products better, and creates more loyal customers who appreciate the freedom they provide.
I already want to buy an Aptera, but if Aptera open sourced its firmware and software, I would be 10 times more excited about buying the hardware, because it would mean that we in the community could support the car forever and keep upgrading and customizing the software even if the company went bankrupt.
It's great to hear you guys have the expertise to do this in house so you're not beholden to just making someone else's product fit/work in the Aptera! Thanks for the update.
Nice to meet you Andrew, thank you for this level of detail into the battery management circuitry and strategy!
Splendid! Even though a non expert, I was able to follow this brilliant dude. Thanks for the education.
Over the air updates really reduce risk, once you get a meaningful number of units produced, and you want to be able to update the infotainment even if "it's fine" when you ship it, but the reality is, everybody has had to patch that stuff. In fact, being able to successfully update the infotainment is more important than having all the features working. Also, a 120V 15 amp plug would be fantastic. 240V if you ever build the 100kwh rolling pack, because somebody is going to try to power a construction trailer, or an RV.
Yay! Was literally just thinking about Aptera. Thank you for the video!
🤣 So unusual for you Jeff! 😂
This comment section is a collection of the smartest people everyone invested is usually very technical
I'm invested in pre-shares
This video was simple in the perfect way. Really informative, easy to understand, you have a good team here.
Keep it up! This format has become way better than it was.
Let’s go!
Great! I would really like to be able to set charging speed and level within limits set by aptera!
Great presentation, he knows what he is talking about.
Very good to hear. Can't wait. Go Aptera
This is boss level detail all of us wanted to know. Thank you & please dive into every other Apteran feature detailed with this kind of depth. ❤️
After hearing Andrew, so pleased I invested in this company. Can’t wait to get my Aptera.
Eight circuit boards instead of 1 or 2 concerns me. A major source of problems comes from interconnections.
Separate circuit boards for each battery module is pretty standard for EVs. Each one is close to the cells and connected to them with short wires. They communicate with the master BMS via a data link. This can be better than running long wires to hundreds of cells from a central BMS.
@@georgepelton5645 George, thank you for good explanation.
@@georgepelton5645Exactly! Long wires to a central BMS raises the risk of cross talk and line interference plus chafing while having a separate board for each module communicating over a common bus with a central master BMS has multiple benefits including allowing for one type of central master BMS to be used on battery packs with different numbers of modules so that they don't have to reinvent a new BMS for every size battery pack they use. This should help speed up software development and simply updates since they won't have to be writing multiple custom updates for a variety of different master BMS units or control modules. This should also allow for faster rollout of the different sized packs in the future since it will be a more flexible system capable of controlling a variety of different capacity packs.
Watching Sandy Munro's Engineers discussion on battery pack design and evolution will give one a better understanding of the tradeoffs and benefits.
Best!
Love this transparency! Thanks for the great information, getting more excited by the day.
Nice commentary Andrew. I have some LiFePO4 batteries and I know how vital a BMS is to keeping batteries healthy. Most of those batteries come with a built-in BMS, making system design a bit easier. I can't imagine all of the considerations necessary when designing a BMS for a system with very specific limitations. What a nightmare.
Will the MPPT charge controller be able to handle external solar input and or could a second MPPT be added? You know, in case someone wanted to do a Solar Cannonball Run??
That is funny I was thinking the same thing.
@@DaBinChe 🤣
🤓 YES! CEO Steve Fambro mentioned in a video that the MPPT board will have headroom for additional solar panels. However he also mentioned that an external connector may not be included in the first vehicles. When it gets added is still TBD. Perhaps an enterprising electrical engineer could develop an aftermarket kit for that.
@@fotoguru222 Thanks! I wonder if that would be on the same MPPT i.e. would need to match voltage (parallel) or would stack voltage (serries). And also, how much headroom? 200w 600w or 6000W 🤔
@@solarcannonballrun They haven't released any specs on their MPPT solar controller or what range of solar panel specs it could handle. However if I remember correctly the controller could handle another 700 watts or so, potentially doubling the output of the builtin cells.
Thank You folks for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
☀☀☀Go Aptera!!☀☀☀
Thank you for explaining and sharing. Let’s go Aptera!
Excellent presentation.
nice, excellent presentation man
Thank you! Great stuff! Go Aptera!
Always love an update
This was really good. Good info. Nicely presented. Well done.
Thanks so much!
Very well done!
Thanks!
Can’t wait to get this in France 🤗
Are you in the Accelerator Program (AP)?
I can't imagine the potential export fees, any estimates?
Do you think it would be possible for an EU member to setup a satellite production facility for EU product consumption in order to keep any tariffs at a minimum?
@@micbroc6435 Opening one or more EU production factories is definitely in Aptera's long term plans.
My betting is that the first EU fab will be at or close to CPC in Modena, once EU/UK homologation is sorted out, which may need a few vehicle tweaks and vehicle class regulation updates. There will be no need for workarounds unless you want to bring a US model in as a personal import.
Equally, Chris A has said that anyone on the Accelerator programme could delay their actual vehicle until the exact spec is ready, so members in EU/rest of the world could still have a place, get all of the benefits (build book, numbered Aptera, etc.) without having to take one of the first 2000 off the line, which would be collected from Carlsbad, shipped wherever, import taxes, and so on.
2026 looks like the EU/UK model year, which is a shame because I was hoping to take mine to NUFAM in Karlsruhe in early Autumn 2025 - the next NUFAM would be in 2027...
A lot of this was intuitive knowledge to me. I knew what a BMS is and how it is obviously necessary for an EV but it was still cool to hear an on depth explanation. All of this is such recent technology. I remeber when kit built EVs were chaining 12 volt lead-acid batteries together. This is so much higher tech than that.
So it strikes me that this is what it takes to replace ICE tech. The technology itself is simple, but a bank of processors more powerful than what we used to land on the moon is needed to control and tweak it for maximum efficiency. The talk about balancing the batteries, for instance. That's obvious ehen you think aboit it, but it's so tedious. All of that work needs a computer to handle.
Of course ICE cars are run by computers too these days, but it's still interesting.
Just a comment that a cell phone has FAR more processing power than what it took to land on the moon. '
“In 1978, the Cray-1 supercomputer cost $7 million, weighed 10,500 pounds and had a 115 kilowatt power supply. It was, by far, the fastest computer in the world,” Longbottom writes of the device, designed as the flagship product of Seymour Cray’s high-performance computing company. “The Raspberry Pi costs around $70 (CPU board, case, power supply, SD Card), weighs a few ounces, uses a five watt power supply and is more than 4.5 times faster than the Cray 1.”
@@n.brucenelson5920An original Prime Mainframe though it could move massive amounts of data was less powerful then the original PC-XT though it needed a massive amount of power and was so heavy it was delivered in multiple sections each requiring a hoist to move it and required a 3 phase power feed. The two we had used 8.25 inch floppy disks and we would joke about another power station having to be brought online every time we fired them up. No printed circuit boards but solid platinum hand wired traces. We only fired them up when absolutely needed for legacy work which required a tech monitor that process sometimes for hours until the power supplies warmed up and stabilized enough to chance turning the processing and drive units on. Now better than that fits in the palm of your hand, boots about instantly and will run for hours to days on a small battery.
Things sure have changed since the 70's and 80's.
Best!
That's the guy I want to design the battery system for my next EV 👍
Andrew did a great job explaining the BMS. Thank you
Such an informal video! This level of transparency will make them a successful company.
good video!
Andrew mention that there are eight circuit boards that make up the BMS -- one for each of the modules and one as the main "brain" (battery contol unit) of the BMS. What's the function of the eighth board? Maybe something to do with solar power management?
I thought from the way they were described that the 8th was the PDC (the one with all the high-power switches)...?
That was my thought, and conclusion as well. Maybe he will clarify?
Power switching, distribution, and control I'd guess. Circuit breakers relay functions, etc
Fantastic ⚡️😀
Rocking it!
It's one big happy family
I thought somebody else was taking care of the battery pack
CTNS will be manufacturing our design! :)
sounds very thought out, hope it works out without burning out :D consider balancing start only when cells are already pretty highly charged
Are you guys planning on programming discharge and charge limits to preserve the battery pack? I've always heard that fully charging and discharging degrades the battery faster. GM on the 2014 Chevy Volt implemented this feature and limits charging to 90% and discharge to no lower than 15% I believe.
To my knowledge all EV batteries preserve a small margin at either end of the pack to preserve battery life. But as an owner you should only be using the middle of the pack's capacity anyway say 70 to 40%.
@@bearclaw5115 The nominal 40 kWh pack already has considerable margin built into the rated pack size.
@bearclaw5115 On the Volt, the nominal charge range is programmed into the software. So if you charge to 100%, the battery will only be at 80% or 90% but your gauge will show full. Having a factory hard limit takes away the guesswork but there is.a cost to range. I'm hoping Aptera implements something similar or, at the very lease, gives us the option to program our own limits. If they're basing their ramge off of max limits of each pack, then these batteries aren't gonna last that long. I pre ordered the 600-mile ramge, which has the 60kw battery. Usuable battery should be about 45kw or 450 miles to preserve the battery. Maybe they will add a little more capacity so I can get my full range of 600 miles but with a 75kw battery that has 60kw usable.
@@rotaryperfection Aptera is indeed doing that.
I missed the word cooling or heat conducting liquid that is initial part of a modern EVs battery pack .... looks like they might not have a heat pump and preconditioning system for fast chanrging in low or freezing temperaturs ... sounds like that car will only make sense in sunny califiornia and remain a national and regional product, which is probably also closer to reality when trying to manufature these on a larger scale. I love its aerodynamic shape and low roll resistance design and wonder ho it would do at higher speeds here on a german highway with no limit?
It has a standard ac compressor and a resistive heater and a separate liquid cooling zone for the battery pack that can cool or heat the battery. Aptera has said a heat pump will be a future update.
I asked Aptera's AI assistant, Lunabot,
"Does Aptera have battery preconditioning ?"
Lunabots response..
"Yes, Aptera has a battery management system that includes a heater inside the battery coolant circuit to protect the battery in extreme cold conditions."
This response helpful to you?
That helped 👍That didn't help 👎
AI Agent · a few seconds ago
Aptera's battery pack is heated/cooled via a bottom plate and is fully temperature controlled in all conditions. This includes preconditioning. The vehicle is fully operational for it's intended world market, all year round.
@@DemaGeek thank you very much. On which technical basis/concept do the heat and cool the plate?
@@garywozniak7742thanks, sounds great
@@n1vca You're very welcome. Heating will be either from the motors or resistive, and cooling via airflow over the aluminum belly pan or by air conditioning as needed. Aptera has made these choices in a time saving effort to market, because the development of their own heat pump would be an additional two years.
I hope it will be capable of V2H.
I agree. It won't be initially, but Aptera is looking into what will be required when standards are in place.
Does the BMS have passive or active balancing? Does the BMS use resistors to burn energy on the higher voltage cells during the top end of the charge cycle or does it use capacitors to transfer energy between the cells? Will you offer lifepo4 battery options? Will you have an option to set lower charge rates to extend the cycle life of the batteries? Lithium ion for example, charging up to 4v instead of 4.2v per cell will create a slightly less storage capacity but the cycle life nearly triples. Can't wait to get my Aptera. Hopefully I fit in it lol.
I think it is unlikely that Aptera will offer LFP batteries due to their lower energy density, because more weight would reduce the energy efficiency of the car. For example, EVE Energy's NMC 2170 are 290 Wh/kg, whereas LFP is only about 160 Wh/kg. However, some of the new LMFP and M3P batteries are getting up to 230 Wh/kg, so it might become a viable option in the future.
NMC has a lot more capacity degradation at higher voltages, so I assume that Aptera will limit the max voltage for normal charging or at least offer an option for the user to limit it. Ideally, the charging is usually limited, but the user can can select to charge to 100% before going on long trips.
I don't know a whole lot about what battery charging systems there are but it seems like a charging system that is more parallel than the discharge makes a lot of obvious sense. It seems like Aptera, who has taken efficiency to its most extreme point, could also have taken this concept of charging in parallel to its most extreme point. Something that could handle 200A but distribute it with such detail that not a single lithium ion within a cell amounts to more than 1A.
Higher Amp values means thicker wires and more waste heat for a given power. They're actually being more efficient going with higher Voltage. W=VA (or P = VI if you prefer). Ideally you would bulk charge the entire battery assembly as much as you can with the highest voltage you can, then balance the smaller components (either pack level or cell level) at the max voltage those components can handle at that level. Parallel components can be charged simultaneously but power is limited by the lowest max current any one component can handle including the wiring.
Does anyone happen to know what the weight is of one battery module?
The total weight of the vehicle is like 1800 lb, so it can't be that much
@@corneliusvaI’m looking to see what the weight differences are between the different vehicles. I’m under the impression that each module in the LD is approximately 40 pounds. If that’s correct the battery weight in the LD would be 240 pounds.
Thank you Andrew/ Aptera!
Nice to start our understanding of components/systems. I would like to know “ while plugged in outside charging via either 120v/240 v and DCFC will the solar trickle charge continue to charge simultaneously or will it turn off the solar charge? Originally it was “rumored” to not be able to solar charge while DCFC charging.
Thx !
That's not a rumor. I heard that direct from Aptera. DCFC will monopolize the charging capability of Aptera's battery, charging at 40 to 60 KW and bypassing Aptera's internal charging circuits. (The peak solar charging rate will be 0.7 KW, less than 2% of the DCFC rate.) However, solar power will be added on top of any AC charging you do.
I know in previous videos it said the battery pack won’t be serviceable but it does appear that it can be repaired.
Nice video!
Maybe wrong place to ask, or maybe I've missed it somewhere, but are you looking at doing a 48v auxiliary system to reduce power loss like the cyber truck?
I know 12v is better for off the shelf, but since everything is custom, I hope the 48v system was considered :)
They aren't doing 48v. They aren't doing a heat pump either. For now it's all off the shelf, except the BMS battery pack and binc, to keep costs down
@@maj429like he's said in another video, a heat pump would be nice, but they're very complicated and take up more space. It would save quite a bit of energy, but they don't have the funds currently for justification for the heat pump system.
It’s a series of tubes!
Tu-be or not tu-be That is the question!
you're not going to coat that ECU? Or was that just for display?
If the production vehicle can match or exceed expectations …Tesla will have a electric vehicle maker to be considered as a competitor.
I hope if all that happens & that discharge of ac and an Anderson type dc outputs become standard.
If one of the boards have any issue, can one or a different one take over and send a replacement and repair notification.
More than likely if the individual module BMS board has an issue, the central module will alert the vehicle to a problem and would probably not allow charging or discharging until the bad board is replaced. It's a very unlikely problem, but depending on how the packs are built, the module BMS should be replaceable.
@Flyingwigs sounds good some gas cars things just stop working not telling you which board is bad, techs have to look at wiring diagrams. SOME CARS TELL YOU WHAT CIRCUIT OR BOARD IS BAD. APTERA SHOULD HAVE LESS A MESS AND WIRING.
Dang! Very cool video and well explained!
Aptera really needs to integrate rhe brake control with Regen braking like Tesla so one pedal driving stays consistent when the battery is full by automatic compensation using brake disc pressure. I imagine that the BMS needs communication with the ECU braking program. Modern EV's braking behavior is a whole new concept and step above ICE with fully developed one pedal driving. Most EV's still have medicore regen braking programming.
Is Aptera aware of WiTricity and planning to integrate their wireless charging system like Tesla and BMW?
Aptera really needs to integrate rhe brake control with Regen braking like Tesla so one pedal driving stays consistent when the battery is full by automatic compensation using brake disc pressure. Modern EV's braking behavior is a whole new concept and step above ICE with fully developed one pedal driving. Most EV's still have medicore regen braking programming.
will it be possible to have just a single module serviced and keep the car running in the meantime?
Make it work in cold winter weather, I want to see how the car does on ice and deep snow!
I plan to have an early model in Iowa and will report on my experience.
..in this case Na-Ionen akkus would work better...
@@Komagleiter1 Sodium Ion batteries do not yet have sufficient energy density to do the job.
for safety and longlife batteries: Na-Ionen akkus mixed with 30% ultra caps (for recuperation)
-> they are cheaper, non critical with temperature and better for nature...
Can the BMS handle using an external battery pack in the trunk to extend range while driving?
Unknown but probable. They will already have to deal with four solar inputs, only two of which are guaranteed. Roof, Dashboard, Hood and Hatch, hood and hatch optional. Those four inputs will have to be managed and balanced the same as the six battery packs.
It would be simple enough to add a fifth input for extended solar, and a sixth for extended battery. And they've already said they plan on an external solar option.
@@richardryley3660 I hope you're right. I've never been able to get a real answer to this question.
@@ScottOstr I can agree with that. All we can do is speculate at this time.
Can the optional hatch solar input be reconfigured to accept externally solar trailer ? Going long distance road trip with extra 3 square meters sounds like a dream.
@@Seadogstudio Love this idea. I suspect we'll also see a big improvement in solar panel tech soon.
When you say 'balancing' the batteries in series, is it the same thing as conditioning the batteries? I used to take LiPo batteries to the radio repair shop where the tech put them on a conditioner. The computer printed a sticker with its new capacity and date. Usually they would condition to more than a new battery spec at 104-108% of rated charge. When the capacity did degrade enough the battery would be disposed of.
Not exactly related, but I'm curious if the over the air updates will have a 5G receiver or a 4G. And if its 4G, can we upgrade to 5G, incase networks drop 4G.
I think it's unlikely that 4G is going to be dropped anytime soon because 5G has to have much closer towers than 4G and 4G can go for a very long way in terms of distance between towers. T-Mobile uses some very long range ones through West Virginia and those are 4G
5G devices are backward compatible with 4G. 5G was hyped up and rushed out so that consumers would "demand to download a movie in seconds" (despite needing more than an hour to watch it AND they stream it on their device, they don't store it). Those sales funded 5G antenna deployment.
I'm a former firmware engineer. 5G and Live Update are dystopian. If people knew the information that Google had on them AND if it was the government, not Google, they'd go out into the streets and begin randomly shooting people with their boom sticks. Sell it as convenience however and consumers are EAGER to surrender their Rights ...and mine.
I love it when I don’t understand a single thing these guys say.
When will we be able to watch a hands on and a full review of the car
Probably immediately after one is built.
can we still invest?
Their website still has the option to invest as of 8-March-2024. Wishing Aptera much success! It's still a long shot but I do so want them to make this car a reality.
Investing is still an option, but the Accelerator program is closed.
Invest $2000 get $1000 off the vehicle is still open I believe
Question: I have a home with solar. I'm hoping to get a home battery system. If I were to plug the aptera in at home, once it is fully charged, is there the ability to send excess solar charging to the home battery system?
I wouldn't count on it with the LE models. Once the US has a V2L standard in place, I think Aptera will add that capability down the road. I know they have discussed it.
Can the BMS be replaced if it fails? How much it would cost? Could owners who don't live in southern California repair or replace a failed BMS by themselves?
Yes. We don't yet know the costs, but Aptera will have instructions on line and will strive for a 24 hour parts shipment turn around time.
Why is the main SoC/IC blurred in the video?
Aptera may not be willing to reveal the supplier yet.
Does the battery get recharged as it's running?
A huge issue i see with modern EV battery packs is that if one or two modules in a pack have gone bad, they simple replace the whole pack rather than the individual modules that are causing a problem. The end result being a substantial expense on the user side.
You guys mentioned there are 6 modules in the pack. If one of those modules goes bad have you guys built the system so that you can easily swap out the offending module rather than replacing the entire pack?
Aptera tracks inventory per vehicle down to the serial number of each individual cell. I don't yet know what the service recommendations will be.
Does this BMS use active or passive balancing?
This is all good but when is Aptera going to be in production?
When they are ready - unlike the original Tesla Roadster, which was shipping knowingly defective vehicles in 2008.
Hi! If I'm driving and the sun is shining, does the energy charge the battery, then the battery energy goes to the wheels? Or can power go directly from the panels to the wheels?
It has to go through the controllers, due to the voltage differences.
Heya Bruce, I would say, maybe? Could you not build a buck converter setup to boost the voltage to what the inverter needs? You could probably build a 10Khz control loop to maintain an output voltage pretty good, but it would def be a pretty neat and custom ckt. Aptera, want me to build one for ya? Might be more efficient... ;)
@@jordanyamamoto9350 🤓 If you know enough to build an inverter, you should know the solar MPPT charging circuit output and the battery loads like the motor controllers are both connected to the battery terminals and monitored by the BMS. Where the energy goes varies millisecond by millisecond depending on the instantanous variable loads. If the load is demaninng more than the solar is providing that instant, the solar power is going to that load with the battery providing an extra that's needed. If the solar is outputing more than the load requires, the extra solar output will charge the battery, assuming it's not full.
Yeah, it's the latter. If you're driving, the solar charge will probably all go to the wheels. If you're stopped, anything that isn't used by the system will go to charging the battery.
You can say that the solar can drive and charge the battery at the same time but that isn't technically true. The solar power isn't wasted though, unless you aren't moving and the battery is 100% full.
But the solar cells can't drive the wheels all by themselves unless you're like creeping along in rush hour traffic. You will always lose charge while driving and gain it while parked.
@@richardryley3660 Nope - we've been told to think of the solar system as a "trickle charger" that adds charge to the battery. It cannot generate enough current at any given moment to directly power the motors.
LiFePO4?
No, due to power density and cold weather performance issues in achieving the performance goals of the vehicle. Aptera will be useing 2170 811 chemistry NMC cells in these first two vehicles. The 600 and 1000 mile nominal range vehicles will use taller batteries with the same diameter and chemistry.
Will you have a lot of changes to make as the battery pack grows? Like from a 400 mi range pack to a 1000 mi pack.
Aptera plans to use longer cells in the battery pack for 1000 miles of range, but the same number of cells, placed in the same lay-out and using the same wiring harness. I guess the height of the battery box may be made smaller for the packs with shorter cells. But they are aiming for a minimum of redesign between the energy sizes, so cooling systems and electronics etc. should be the same.
A pack with less energy and a shorter range, can be made by omitting some of the cells.
Source I think I heard it in one of the interviews of either CEO's or engineers from Aptera, put on RUclips this year 2024.
Yes, I remember the same thing, but I was referring to the firmware and software changes. I mean the firmware/software will have to know what size battery it is working with. @@NikolaiBeier
A few parameter values could be different between different packs, but the program/algorithms does not need to change. The safe way to guard the cells against too high a charge and too low a discharge does not depend on the estimated capacity or the estimated 'state of charge'.
@@Rang62455
@@NikolaiBeier more cells -> more weight and more money to pay...
Hey guys it looks great. Have you considered an option without solar panels? It could be simple. 3:39
It would only save 8 lbs in weight. It wouldn't be worth it for most people.
It's true, 4 kg in weight is nothing, but you can have 100 kg of solar panels on the roof at home, it costs you nothing, and if you only drive around the area, you can charge it in the evening. You don't have to painstakingly manufacture panels and glue them to an aerodynamic surface and painstakingly test how long it will last. You could easily sell cars, your big advantage of the car is its low weight, great Cx. This is how you beat everyone. Now the main price will be the deciding factor, and you can reduce this by simplicity. In the end, everyone is about money and you need to produce as soon as possible.
@@jirivaculik1152 "you can have 100 kg of solar panels on the roof at home, it costs you nothing, "
I don't understand how you claim this? However, the Aptera design has far fewer parts than conventional design and a great example of simplicity in a vehicle.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Yes, your design is excellent, you have few parts. That's great, but I've seen a lot of videos where you glue and test solar panels. It must be a lot of work and you don't know what it will do in 5 years. No one has much experience with it. And if there is a problem, it will kill you. Without panels, you could already sell cars and gradually complete this technology. How much will the panels with assembly cost?
@@jirivaculik1152 Aptera has a patent on their solar panel assembly process that is likely to start bringing in revenue independent of the vehicle manufacturing. Sunpower has a 40 year warranty on panels made with the same cells - the longest in the industry.
Aptera has been doing testing of these cells almost since they started. As a continuous improvement company, the were able to move on from the original plastic coated cells to a much more robust glass design that may be the most scratch resistant portion of the vehicle. I am really excited about what is coming.
Im willing to invest the second i see ONE on the road.
That’s understandable, but once they hit the road, expect the price of shares to at least double or triple
Nothing wrong with being a bit risk averse and adopting 'late stage'. Won't affect you but will add a bit more delay for early adopters---again freedom of choice.
Great, but when do deliveries begin?
When you give them 100 millions dollars
Shortly after production begins.
@@ubaldinovega5775 so never. That’s all I needed to know.
Ah, this man can tell if the Aptera will have support for Apple CarKey?
I like Aptera, but for a startup (that is crowdfunding through various portals) the upper management is paid a bit too high right now. Over 200K salary is a bit too high - they are already getting A TON of stock and stock options right now...
Aptera is set up to maintain management control. They learned that lesson when they gave away too much control to Idealab the first time around.
Not really on a cell level, any cells in parallel cannot be distinguished from each other, only a sort of average state of health can be determined, it bugs me that telsa also says management on a cell level which isn't true as yet.
Do you know the individual voltage of each cell.......no
Do you know the temperature of each cell........no
The two most important values are not known at a cell level............lets get real
Reserved my Aptera 3 years ago and the Delivery Date is "To be Determined" . It used to say a Year i would get My Aptera, guess they gave up on that.
I just checked my dashboard. It is still showing H1 2025.
Hmmm, Mine says 2025.
Probably not a hard time frame either.
I want mine ASAP too, but I'm not going to complain about it. They aren't Ford, they haven't been around for a literal 100 years, it'll probably take a hot minute before they're ready fthe public.
Kinda like fsd for tesla, it’s always next year. But for an entire vehicle.
@@micbroc6435 My wife and I both rode in a prototype close to what was originally announced in November of 2021. Due to the surprising demand, the production method and the quality of the vehicle has gone WAY up compared to what was planned. The body tooling is finished and the production parts were on public display in Paris this week. They will still go through validation testing, and unlike Tesla in 2008, Aptera will be shipping fully validated vehicles.
If you don’t have the launch vehicle then it will be TBD. First ones they are making will be 400 mile range. If you change to that it will say 2025.
Table stakes. That they think doing their own battery management impresses customers means they aren't a serious manufacturer. Hobbiest ebike and e-motorcycle builders do this.
Am I the only one who sees those boards over engineered? Maybe they are test articles but those vintage test points are expensive and assume that humans with oscilloscopes will hand test each board as opposed to automated test points. If Aptera plans to have a car on sale in 2024 those boards are a red flag.
Also the strategy of developing the BMS from the ground up by an inexperienced team is risky at best. A much safer approach would have been to buy the expertise from a company that has done BMS in the past and that they learned something from any battery fires that they may have had. At least hired some of those engineers that went through all of that. Battery packs and BMS systems need a lot of attention to detaip. Don't setup yourself for failure. Just my 5 cents
Chris Anthony has already co-founded a battery company and it is now public. He knows as much about battery tech and BMS design as almost anyone.
Perhaps you don't know the history of the employees Aptera has had working on the development. The entire project has set risky and ambitious performance goals before themselves, but it is clear that they are generating a great deal of new IP that will find application even beyond the vehicle market.
Would love to see diversity/demographic stats on your technical and executive teams!
I don't give a dam about diversity I am looking for COMPETENCE..NEED I mention a Press Secretary and V.P.? I am supporting Aptera 100%.
We already know that there are women and people of color on the engineering team that have been featured in other videos.
Why would you 'love to see' stats on that adamc? Are you one of those EQUITY NUTJOBS that always advocate dumbing down everything rather than evolving knowledge and expertise to ever higher levels? I was raised to be color blind and never focus on the color one's skin, eyes, hair, etc. It's the 'color' of one's character and the knowledge, achievements of their brains that's the most important along with real human being focused principles! Aptera is being designed and built by very smart, very well-intentioned people in a way that should benefit all people...even those who won't have one.
How many of you guys think this car will actually get built?
I am quite certain of it at this point. The body tooling is done and parts are being assembled. The validation test results are likely to be as modeled and finally, based on experience with prototypes this is a FUN vehicle. Once this is generally realized, the market for it will explode.
@@n.brucenelson5920 I have no doubt they'll produce these, what I doubt is the price, the time frame and the real range but i'm staying hopeful
another month, another video, cars? 0
There has to be a body first - then validation of the production intent models before they start shipping. Tesla didn't do that and shipped Roadsters as "shipping models" when they knew the transmissions would break on acceleration. They almost went bankrupt before they got that fixed.
I think it's smart to put time and effort to making videos likes this with investors money than making actual production vehicles. it's important to gain trust from investors. because you can't make a good living without money.
@@JS-qn4dy Aptera is not Elio. Take a look at the Body in Carbon that Aptera showed publicly at a trade show in Paris last week - made with tooling paid for with investor funds that had individual tools made from 100 ton steel blocks costing millions - each.
And then look at the patent portfolio already granted - that will bring in its own independent revenue stream beyond the vehicles themselves.
There is no "instead of" here. It is shameful to suggest.
Tesla had this figured out in 2012. You guy have been working on it that long also. I don't think you will ever sell any. Elio part 2.
Comparing Aptera with Elio is an instant give away that you know nothing about either company. Hint - one place to look is the respective manufacturer alliances and another is to compare the patent portfolios.
Aptera restarted at the end of 2019, at most they have been at it for just over four years. Don't forget that COVID happened in this time frame too.... This is nothing like Elio.
this company is imploding
No basis for such a silly and unfounded statement.
Again - nuthin new. Generic BMS talk that’s just simple and true about any platform. Not Apt…era to make it. Investors being fed day-old chum sushi.
Amazing to me how all--knowing you are. Wow, I'm impressed. Want to take control of managing my millions?
@@rchender … it’ll never complete homologation … and your millions will minus some.
Aptera has wonderful people doing some amazing design and engineering. I really enjoy their sharing, transparency, frequent updates and am very excited to see the PI builds being tested in CA.
@@thumperoux1528
Many many videos and information but no serial production....sounds like Sono motors....month later the project failed.
Sono Motors never explained their ongoing process the way Aptera does: Aptera's transparency is what continues to generate interest (and investment) in the vehicle. Aptera is just now beginning the process of building "production intent" test vehicles: Once they're built, testing and adjustment can begin. When that process is concluded, THEN they can think about starting series production. Even the big-name legacy manufacturers take YEARS to introduce new models, and they already have factories and supply chains in place!
This car is never getting released. They lack the funds to produce the solar ev version
You wish. All you gas guzzlers will hate Aptera, and they just don't care. You see the future and it is not pretty for Toyota.
Why would you make a negative nancy statement like that, especially in a dialogue zone where mostly enthusiasts are sharing their knowledge and excitement? "Mankind will NEVER walk on the moon!" Why don't you just focus on your Toyota(s). I have one now, have had a total of three Priuses and love them, but tech is rapidly evolving and I'm on board!
Bro idk you're missing deadlines like crazy. I can't follow you guys any more.
I'm tired of hearing "next year... Then nvm" "when we make this money.. Then nvm" I'm out. Going all in for a cybertruck
Take a look at how many times Tesla missed their Cybertruck deadlines - without the cash issues Aptera is dealing with now.
Literally the exact opposite of an Aptera. Interesting choice for a bot account lel.
Good luck. I'm sticking with Aptera. Hope to get one of the first production vehicles. Should be end of 2024 or first part of 2025. Currently 97 on the Accelerator leaderboard
@@ASawyerInAZ A giant "thank you" to you and other Accelerators.
No one's forcing you to follow, bro. Good luck with your Cybertruck.
This is very informative. Thank you for helping us understand more about these systems.
APTERA 🤗
Great explanation, thank you Andrew and Aptera for keeping us in the loop!