Aptera Coasting Efficiency: The Best of any Vehicle Ever?
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
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The most efficient commuter and road warrior vehicle ever created, with up to 1,000 miles of battery range, 40 miles per day of solar range in addition to that, and launching under $35k.
Excellent thought-provoking video. Good comments as well. Can't wait to do some experimenting with my Aptera in these Colorado mountains!
I owned a 2014 Chevy Spark EV for seven years, and I would hypermile (when no one was behind me) by coasting with low regen. This seemed to me to be the best way to increase my efficiency. Nice to hear that others agree.
You sound fun at parties 🎉
I love coasting. It is however not popular. Many times I have had people zoom around me only to slam on the brakes for the Red light ahead.
Yes, happened to me too. For me, I would only do intermittent coasting on empty open highway or empty streets. Once you see someone in mirror cease immediately. If doing intermittent coasting on the highway I would never let the speed below 62mph before bringing it back up to say 75. Either that or draft a semi (which is also dangerous and irritating to the semi-driver).
I came here to make this same comment. I drive a big gas guzzling truck to haul things, and try to take advantage of coasting as much as possible. People just don't think to do that I think. They would rather stay ahead of everyone else, and get to the red light first. My thinking is always, I want to coast and hit that red light so that it turns green and people are speeding up by the time I'm rolling up. Most folks don't do that though
You don't want to coast. You gain much much more mileage by regen.
@@ASawyerInAZ l currently only have a gas car
@@EdErickson understand.
I do wish the auto makers would allow easy options for regen. My first car with regen was the 2000 Honda Insight. Manual transmission, so I had the clutch and neutral easily accessible for coasting. I’ve been hyper mile’ing my 110 mile commute to work since 2003 when I can and not in a rush. That car gave me 85 mpg easily. Some folks could eke out 100mpg and get what they called the 1,000 tank back then. 10.5 gallon tank at 100mpg and you could hit the 1,000 miles on a tank in perfect condition. There was a thread for those who could get it on insight central forum for some time. I never could but close.
I completely agree. Ihave a 2016 Leaf. I found several months ago that coasting down hills gets me farther than using the regenerative braking and then using that power to drive the car.
In my Model Y I use the S3XY buttons. I have one button on the back of the steering wheel set to toggle regen on or off.
I love having full regen in the gas pedal as is with the Teslas but on certain occasions when I want to coast out for the most efficient hyper mile’ing I prefer to cut regen shortly or put it in Neutral occasionally rather than find that sweet spot at 25% pedal deflection that equal zero regen. It is always amazing to me with how well the model y coasts. I am sure the aptera will be even more mind blowing.
I highly recommend the S3XY buttons for anyone here that likes to geek out on this type of thing. You can also get realtime data on power, regen and more with the app running on the phone on the phone holder while driving to boot. Greater stuff.
Love the illustrations!
My uncle was a woodshop teacher in a high school in Quesnel, BC, Canada. He spearheaded getting local industry to certify high school graduates to double their incoming salary, and got donations to double the size of the school with the new section feeding local industry.
About 25 years ago the school entered a combustion engine vehicle fuel economy range competition, and won. For the competition they had to make the entire vehicle from raw materials, including milling their own engine block. They didn’t have the most aerodynamic dynamic vehicle, but they won with both the highest average speed and the least fuel used.
They accomplished this by implementing a bicycle style freewheel. They would accelerate to 25mph, coast to 13mph, then repeat. Their average speed was over 17mph. Second place with more fuel consumed over the course distance had an average speed under 13mph.
In this competition the high school beat teams by both MIT and Cal Poly.
Yes, definitely interesting and fresh content. It certainly will be interesting to experiment with these scenarios with the vehicle, when actually behind the wheel. I suspect the infotainment display will provide useful and relevant data.
I love this idea. Imagine going downhill for several miles on "coastmode" and the ability to switch to regen when you touch your brakes.
Sounds like driving the Nikola H2 Semi.
Yup coasting actually gives more range than regen bracking. I see it in my ZeroSR. Zero as well as Energica says that regen braking has less range. Even in the Eco mode the regen braking is minimal.
Thanks for bringing up this topic! As you mentioned Lightyear has already shown a little at least what coasting can add. I’m also left wondering what Solar could add to coasting. In my Prius plug in , the display always shows my efficiency AND when the gas motor isn’t running or needed. I’ve found that coasting significantly improves overall MPG, also when I switched from low resistance tires to tougher ALL season tires my MPG went lower by approximately 8-10%. So just imagine using low rolling resistance tires combined with coasting could do in a hyper efficient design like Aptera, especially with Solar giving some charge to the battery. I’ve also found that in my Prius with its excellent efficiency display, that I don’t have to draft THAT close to a large Semi to get drafting benefits.
I would love for the brake pedal to control the regen fully. Like the first half of the pedal is only regen or something
Interesting aspects to think about. Great video, thank you.
Nice work, keep it going.
I hope you can set the regen braking based on the use of the brake pedal and only engaging the brakes when the brake pedal is depressed beyond 50%. 0-50% depressed is setting the regen braking level.
Finally! Thank you Aptera Time! Finally someone pointing this out (that on the Aptera, COASTING may be a new driving culture - perhaps the secret surprise of this potentially revolutionary vehicle. I am a road-bike builder, and now an e-bike conversion builder and really notice so many factors that contribute to incredible rolling efficiency of a high-end road bike versus a department store bike. One of the first things I'm hoping to do when I get my Aptera is to completely turn off regen, and try to coast at least 50% of the time while cruising on interstate 5 up/down the west coast. I would try accelerating to say 70-75mph and coast until 62-65mph then back again. I'd try to maximize coasting when there are tail winds and slight downhill stretches of road. On headwinds, and slight inclines, I'd keep steady throttle to avoid needless acceleration - just maintain constant speed.
If I'm only applying the accelerator only 50%-70% of the time on the highway, then I would be curious just how far my "400 mile" Launch Edition will actually go on a single charge. (30% on top of the 400 will be another 120 miles for a total of 520 miles.)
What if the back solar panel is facing the sun during the trip that could possibly add another 20 -30 miles. Would then then give us 540-550 miles of range. on the "400 mile (40kw)" pack?
However, I'm going to assume that even when regen is turned off, there might still be some rolling resistance caused by the magnets of the in-wheel direct drive, directly connected in-wheel motors. If this ends up being the case, then I hope in a future modification, that when regen is turn off, the Aptera wheels whould be modified and made to freewheel like a bicycle rear wheel when power is no longer applied.. This would really maximize coasting efficiency.
Other factor to consider in regards to rolling resistance (a lesson learned from the bicycle road bike world)is the often not noticed factor of TIRES.
A lot of reduction of rolling resistance can be achieved from tire design and construction. A significant reduction of rolling resistance can be achieved by changing such things as: a) sidewall and tire body flex compliance (increasing TPI - threads per inch), b) tire tread compound and thread pattern, c) tire weight (the less weight on the outer circumference of the wheel, the lower the rolling resistance, d) tire pressure (a high pressure 60-70PSI tire will likely roll much better than a low pressure 35psi tire), However, such high pressure tires may require recalibration of suspension. e) tire contact patch size - a smaller tire contact patch on the ground will likely lower rolling resistance.
I wouldn't be surprised that if a new tire design could be designed especially for the Aptera could add another 5%-10% (15-30 more miles of range?
Could it be that with coasting, solar and optimized tires, our "400" mile Aptera might possibly achieve 555-565 miles?
Great thoughts. With careful driving techniques and 50 psi, my 2000 Ford expedition averages 18mpg Florida to MN. After 3 years, we switched to our small car for our twice yearly Trek which of course is way better
@@EdErickson Thanks for that reveal! If the Expedition normally gets 2 mpg more because of maximized tire PSI and by careful driving techniques, that's about 10% more range.
Of course, believing that the 400 mile LE Aptera could be made to travel an extra 150 miles by intermittent coasting, drafting, adding freewheeling to the three drive wheels, and using custom built 70+ PSI tires is probably unrealistic especially for this first model. (Most likely, with the first model, magnetic drag and the energy required to bring the Aptera back up to speed after a coasting run may nullify much of the gains from coasting. Nevertheless, with the Aptera's 0.13 drag coefficient, and its sub 2,000 lbs weight, I can't help but think that Aptera has more room than any other to benefit from these approaches to increasing range.
Nothing on the Aptera motorcycle ist revolutionary. It is banged together from over he counter parts.
People don't know how to drive. With a manual transmission, I would put the clutch in 1/2 mile from the stop sign. And I never accelerate to the next red light, only to cram on the brakes at the last moment.
I look forward to just coasting down a large hill to a plateau. It would be great if we are permitted to let achieve a higher speed than permitted. But I know there are likely not negotiated.
You forgot rolling resistance with one less tire.
I agree, there are times when coasting is beneficial however your example of slowing down from 80 to 60 and accelerating again to save energy makes no sense and will be less efficient then going steady 70 with the same average speed. That is simple physics.
What is the calculation?
Regarding the "coasting efficiency" , just what is the percentage breakdown of aerodynamics vs. frictional rolling resistance?...say eighty percent to thirty percent?
I love the concept, but I never drive at 80 mph, which is NOT an aerodynamically efficient speed. I’d be happy to be proven wrong. I rarely drive my Prius at or over the speed limit and I expect to do the same in my Aptera. I also expect to beat the 100 watt-hour mile. I agree fully with your comments on regen. I coast whenever possible.
Hyper milers get a boost from drafting a semi-trailer truck, although dangerous, when the reserve light comes on, I have done so in order to get to the next gas station. My question is at what speed does this vehicle get is most efficient use of energy. In my Prius, I have found that my highest MPG is achieved when traveling at around 35 MPH. Air resistance is a large factor in determining the top of the range. At 80 MPH my Prius gets about 2/3 the MPG as it does at 35. So, if I look at the Aptera, I wonder if around 35 MPH is the best speed or maybe it is higher due to the drag being lower. Just thinking the air density matters and speed has its own type of loss. Not going to drive 35 all the time, but given the physics of the situation, I wonder what speed number one can get the most out of the vehicle. Regenerative braking does work to charge up a battery, and in heavy traffic on a highway, given smart decisions, hitting the brakes is rarer than in a regular older car. I find I can up my milage on the highway by looking ahead and watching brake lights three or more cars ahead of me and adjusting accordingly. Maybe simple physics says there is a number like 35 MPG that determines the best you can achieve, but that might be higher due to the Aptera's shape.
Can the regen setting be changed on the fly? How many regen settings are there? I plan to drive my Aptera from southern Cal to Minnesota. The majority of the time I expect to have regen off except certain situations in the mountains. Need to learn all there is to learn.
my question is how well does the coasting hypermiling technique compare to using cruise control with regen enabled.
Coasting is significantly better if you get it right, regen is apparently about 70% efficient so that means you waste 30%. You don't want to unnecessarily regen. Getting coasting wrong (coasting then heavily braking) is worse than no coasting, because heavy regen is less efficient than light regen.
Having said that - many/most EVs can't truly coast, since they don't have gearboxes or clutches. The best that they can do is cut power to the motor, but it stays mechanically connected to the drivetrain, leading to losses from eddy currents in the motor (if permanent magnets are used). There's no evidence that the Aptera is able to do this (as far as we know there is no clutch in the Elaphe hub motor, and it uses permanent magnets).
Regarding cruise control - hypermilers turn this off, because cruise control does not understand terrain, as a result, it powers up hills and regens down them, which is a loss. It's better to use momentum to get up the final part of the hill, then coast down it (if it is not too steep). In very flat terrain, cruise control is OK, but even slight undulations will cause it to do this.
I don't hypermile any more, it is too stressful. But when I used to do it, my best tank was 87 MPGuk (my car has an official MPGuk of 67 MPGuk).
I don’t believe that the aptera can completely disengage the electric motor. I have seen pictures of the wheels, and have experimented with brushless motors in the past. I think that the closest thing they could do is connect all of the conductors together, but there would still be drag. Instead what most groups do is apply some power to the windings but not. Significant amount of power. This has the advantage of being able to quickly return to full power or a powered stop without additional calculations being required to compute the wheel’s current position.
Shorting all motor phases together would produce MAXIMUM dynamic braking - definitely NOT a good idea. I've done this with small brushless motors and it's amazing the amount of braking torque they can generate, even at low RPM. Disconnecting all phases would probably produce the minimum drag, but potentially generate dangerously high back EMF voltages. I think (not absolutely certain) that best "coasting" efficiency would be gained by having the inverters provide just enough drive to the motors to generate a very small amount of positive torque.
Coasting? It all depends on whether the motors are less efficient or more efficient at a light throttle compared to a heavy throttle. We know coasting benefits ICE car efficiency, but has anyone actually seen data that confirms the same is true for EVs?
Its the bestest. Better then a fusion monorail.
The german "Schlörwagen" in 1936 had a better efficiency than Aptera Motorcycle. And it had 5 seats and was a real car.
When in mountains or hills, the regen would be ideal. Not everyone lives in flat areas ^_^
How about drafting a semi?
There will be very limited benefit to drafting in the Aptera as the surface is designed to not be grabbed by air but instead allow it to pass through the air without disturbance.
Coasting while in drive? Why not put the vehicle in neutral for further coasting?
Aptera definitely has the option to put it in neutral, but you'd then likely have to switch back to drive before you can accelerate again, which is a bit inconvenient and slightly unsafe. You make a good point though.
I use neutral in my EVs for coasting. There are not aerodynamic but their weight keeps them rolling longer than an ICE car.
@@apteratimeDoes it actually have neutral (disconnecting the motor from the drive), or does it simply cut power to the hub motor (which introduces losses from eddy currents from the permanent magnets which the Elaphe motor uses?) As far as I know there is no clutch in the motor. Most EVs don't have a true neutral, and leave their motors connected to the drive train.
It's important to note that the losses from eddy currents would be less than the losses from unnecessary regen, but you do lose efficiency as a result.
@WyndStryke I'm not sure, I just know that N is a selectable option that has been shown on the center screen and as a pressable option under the screen. I imagine Aptera will mimic Lightyear but it doesn't seem that Lightyear put the vehicle into neutral, though perhaps they did. The Lightyear One does weigh almost 3,500 pounds, which I didn't mention in the video.
Light year 1 too expensive do u guys think?
Yes, way too expensive and no longer for sale.
who would regen on a highway? Unless stopping for traffic...
I'm going to guess-timate during the summer months we'd get about 16hrs of sunlight per day.
40÷16=2.5
So 2.5 miles of range per hour reclaimed by solar. I'm only guessing, but I think that the amount of energy used to get back to 80 mph would eat that 2.5 miles rather quickly. As I said I'm only guessing. However the concept of coasting is intriguing. Real world experimentation would be needed to see if there's any benefit.
The nominal solar gain for a fixed solar panel is five hours a day. That would nominally produce about 8 MPH, though I would guess the real value would be closer to 7.
Give us more please
More questions. What facts did you get? Make a list.