Part of my thought process is that MISSING low, is way better than HITTING high. High hits are a disaster on so many levels. Many times, it is a non-lethal hit, and even if it is lethal, the blood trail can be almost non-existent, which many times means - no recovery. My arrow set ups cost 25 - 30 bucks each. High hits on many occasions are not pass thrus, so.. the poor deer has an arrow sticking out of its back AND there is no "arrow refund". I posted 2 videos recently showing aiming low at 30ish yards and aiming center of the deer 30ish yards. In neither case, the deer could be predicted on IF, WHEN, or HOW MUCH they might react to the crossbow. I have shot at deer that reacted violently, chest almost hitting the ground, as they dropped and rolled to run away. Others have stood there like statues and did not react at all till the arrow hit them. I think, at least on longer shots, they not only react to the sound of the crossbow, but the SOUND of the approaching arrow, and possibly can even SEE the arrow coming on longer distance shots. This is based on some deer's hesitation of dropping at the crossbow sound, but they seem to start moving as the arrow is approaching them. This all occurs in fractions of a second, but when you slow down the video, it becomes apparent that some deer's reaction is not based on the sound of the crossbow or they would be moving almost instantly at the trigger. Their reflexes are that good.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here but there's no question they're moving in response to the sound of the crossbow. Crossbows are loud. That's just how it is. It takes time however for that sound to reach the deer, and then it takes more time for the deer to process that and for them to start to react. Remember, they can only react based on gravity. So they can only drop so fast, also. They can only drop as fast as gravity allows them to. All of this was covered in another really good video that we did with Darren Cummings, the guy that did that video with Dr Grant Woods involving a machine that he built. I think Darren and I both agree that deer react to the sound of the arrow, also, but more in a sense that they are using that as information about where the threat is coming from. In other words, after they drop, they might be using the sound of the arrow to determine which direction they want to spring toward. All good stuff, and a lot more coming on this topic I'm betting.
@@Deathbybunjie Agreed. The sound is definitely the trigger. Easy enough to test tho. Next time you see a deer, shoot the opposite direction while recording the deers reaction.
Good job Rich. You are being thorough and thoughtful on this topic, along with your other videos. I'm a new hunter and have very limited hunting experience. But I like your thought process, especially the idea of doing everything you can to make the point of aim and point of impact the same. As a new hunter I want to remove as many variables as I can so this is helpful to me.
Another great video !! I agree with you!! Im so glad I learned my lesson this year . I now will keep a rifle in my blind just for that trophy buck that comes out past my comfort zone.
Hey Rich, absolutely great video. The level of detail and the amount of rational thought and calculations you do, especially with reviewing your video footage, is exemplary. I wish more hunters would adopt your approach, actually I think society in general would benefit from your methods. Keep up the good work.
Great honest video. I agree. That is a very tough shot on a alert-facing deer. My crossbow is at 410 fps. They tell me I can make an accurate/lethal 40 yard shot with it. The longest harvest I've felt comfortable with was 32 yards. That was on a non-alert deer, broadside. I really try to stay at 25 yards. We all have to find our comfort zone lol....Again, great video, great info...thanks for sharing...
Just got back to the world of the living. Been out in the empire swamp the past week. Catching up w bunjie with a cup of coffee on Thanksgiving morning. Cheers Rich and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Ya I learned that lesson on alert deer with my first crossbow I bought in the early 2000s ,I almost broke that bow against a tree that day until I talked to smarter people than me and learned my lesson and stuck one the next weekend using what I learned, and I am with you on I want it to hit what I aim at not playing the drop, words of wisdom 👍👍👍
I am building some bolts based on the Sirius Phoenix bolts, 20 + inches and wonder your opinion on the Ethics Archery spinning inserts, which in theory isolate the broadhead from the shaft ? I am not sure of the concept but sitting on the couch here it makes sense. Using a 200 grain Tuffhead single bevel or even a 300 grain maybe.
My initial thoughts are that if it was beneficial, we would all be doing it. But I'm very interested in it and I look forward to hearing from you about it!
@@Deathbybunjie As a KISS advocate ( Keep it Simple Stupid) I have my issues with all mechanical things and wonder if they will get gummed up on targets or animals, cleaning, etc. If my new bolts fly I for sure won't be adding them. It just seems on a couch level to be a reasonable theory.
That footage of where the bolt was flying, point of aim, and the reaction of the deer was pure gold, this would be a fantastic tool for hunter safety courses. Nice work. What is that sight on #3 called? And how difficult was setting it up? Thanks.
I've come to believe the head down, cringe, if you so want to call it that. That's a myth. Most, not all, do it no matter where their head is. The proof. Is in the pudding, you just made that point. One other thing, I know a lot of us don't say it, but I know we feel it, you (and your daughter) are appreciated very much, for all the time, effort and I heart you put into this and putting out these videos. Thanks man! 🎯🥇🥇
Hi Rich. I've enjoyed your videos through the years, and this is a great one. One small point of clarification for you and your viewers' benefit: Slugs are a unit of mass, not momentum. Since momentum is a mass X velocity, the correct units for momentum would be slugs feet per sec. I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you have any questions on it. It can be confusing. Best regards!
I do understand the football analogy. Theoretically, we study these deers, movements, and patterns, and how they react. We've come up with algorithms for how fast they drop in comparison to the FPS of what we're shooting. So in theory, we should be able to anticipate where that deer should be just like the quarterback and a receiver. He should be at this point. Ready to catch this ball just like the deer, should be, theoretically, at this point when I shoot.
Ok, one key thing that is missing in your thoughts, (my personal feeling about this, and no disparagement towards you at all) is this: at the same yardage, a relaxed deer feeding is going to react far differently than your deer at full alert. I have shot deer and also ‘at’ deer at this same range with my bow, in both scenarios. The relaxed deer did not jump the string and came home with me. Last year the alert deer not only ducked, but spun away, so when the arrow reached its destination, there was nothing but open air where the deer used to be. It was truly an amazing thing to see! I couldn’t even be disappointed in the miss, because I got to see this in person. My point is: do not adjust your zone of confidence, adjust your zone according to the current behavior of the deer. If alert, the zone contracts, if relaxed, expand it. Also, environmental factors, such as road noise, a jet flying over, a tractor running, wind in the trees, will also expand your zone a bit, depending on the alertness of the deer at that moment
There is an ongoing study that is finding the deer can hear the bolt/arrow coming towards them at about 8 ft to 10 yards regardless of how fast the arrow is going and if they find it alarming they will duck the arrow
With Ravin R9 ~400 FPS, I shot deer at 50 yards, felt a little crazy but certain I aimed at left side of deer and actually hit deer on the right side at the same location as it ran back into the woods. Keeping it within 40 seems like a good idea....
Good info, that deer alert, ready to bolt and right now, looking right at you in the open, probably saw the crossbow limbs move outward even before it heard the sound, reacting to the visual cue perhaps even a little mo' quicker. Thank you Rich. -William Liggett
Rich, a hunt is in 4 steps once the deer is spotted 1..is the deer good for your table..2..is the deer within 30 yrds..3..is the deer broad side or quartering away..4..are you in a good position to shoot..if so that deer is dead..if one of these 4 steps is not right, abort the shot..works every time..deer hunting on the ground and these 4 steps coming together is lower % than from a tree..
I have learned my lesson on this subject and after 30 years of hunting whitetails....I will wait until I can call that deer in or wait till it feeds its way to my ladder stand. 25 yards is about max for me to guarantee a good kill. Great video Rich! (Tenpoint Titan SS)
The shot you showed when you clicked your crossbow From safety to fire, she was in that realm or that zone of confidence. Where had that been the same deer that you missed, She would have definitely taken a permanent nap. In my opinion,, Incidentally, I do love watching your pods and videos like this. It makes you think and re adjust a lot of things that could potentially increase your favor while hunting in my opinion. Last season, I shot the last year that I shot that season, at a range of 64 yd. It was a mature dough, however, she wasn't alert like that deer that you shot at was, and she was quartering away. My crossbow I was shooting was the Swat X1, bolt weight was 500gr, bolt speed was 351 fps, optics was the Killer Instinct Max View MV36, Broadhead of choice was the Ozcut hurricanes 150 grain. Extremely accurate and predominantly pretty quiet. The shot itself is quiet as well with that amount of weight up front. Point of aim was about four inches lower than mid body. Point of impact was 2 inches higher than heart, double lung, hitting the off side shoulder.
@Deathbybunjie I like my swat X1 and my fatal X better than my mission sub 1xr, Granted I haven't hunted with my mission yet,, But I definitely like it's long range accuracy,, And it's super quiet If I shoot a 500 grain bolt.
Been my story this season, 2 low percentage shots, 0 for 2, successful long shots last year gave me overconfidence this year, I think 40 yds and under more appropiate for my Excalibur 420 assassin
Think about the speed of sound . 20--30 is the hunting distance for a arrow , this goes for the fastest crossbow , I wish all hunters would understand this .
It takes a while for the sound to get there but it also takes a while for the deer to react to the sound and process the information they receive, plus, alert gear are different than relaxed deer, and every crossbow sounds different it seems, there's still lots to consider on the subject
Target shooting back yard it really helps to improve form and consistency it also helps a lot with fine tuning the crosshairs after that though it becomes pointless. Being able to hit a target where you aim all the time 50 plus yards does not mean that you will kill deer. Far too many factors come into play. Humidity will affect arrow flight so did you sight in for the summer or the fall/ winter. If summer spaces in the scope could be off that makes point of impact off. I sight in for fall low to no humidity perfect for winter but still snow and ice on rail limbs and bolts will affect as well. Archery is a challenge and a close game challenge for hunting.
Grant Woods does have some great videos on this subject. I shoot 456 fps and stil don't like shooting much over 35 yards and would never shoot at one over 40 yards with this current setup. Just a matter of ethics to me and wanting to give myself and the deer the best outcome with a lethal hit. Thanks for this topice. I am sure it will generate a lot of comments the same as which broadhead is the best for deer, ha, ha.
There are those that complain about fast crossbows and say why do you need such speed. In realistic ranges, the greater power will blow through a shoulder and get to the vitals. That’s not about taking sloppy shots. A quartering toward you type of shot presents numerous challenges.
I took a head on shot with a wicked ridge rdx400 with a shwacker 150 grain 3 inch cut at 51 yards the broadhead was stuck in the hind quarter and she didn't run 30 yards
Actually, what happened with that shot still fits with Darren Cummings theory. You said your speed is about 380 fps. Divide by 10 and your at 38 yards.
Thank you for an excellent video! It 's always been a close range game for me, one has to know all the limitations. OK, I'll say it one more time, "All hail Bunjie!"
I just want to let you know I watch you all the time, and it is amazing to me the amount of time and energy that you put into this. Keep up the good work. Great show.
Even with hunting with guns , there is a zone of confidence/range of confidence but just wondering why you totally abandoned hunting with guns ? Did you sell all your guns ? Or , for security reasons , if you don't want to answer that question we'll understand !
Actually I think I may have heard about Area of certainty or range of certainty , from hunting as a kid but I like zone of confidence or zone of certainty .
I shoot an excalibur 355 micro. In my experience I have 30 yards as a max. I got a shot at a small buck the last weekend of archery and it worked out. I actually saw him fall about 20-25 yards from the shot, so I was thrilled. I took the shot because he had no idea I was there and was quartering away. Considering what I saw I figured I got him with a text book shot. When I came up on him to my surprise the shot was back and high. At 25 yards it put the bolt near through him from just ahead of the rear leg and it went out the front inside the opposite front leg. I found 3/4 of the bolt was still in him when I was field dressing him. So I'm guessing he jumped the string to some degree. I was actually hunting out of a tree in a saddle. So that may have helped since I my shot was downward instead of straight on , like hunting on the ground.
I think that if that deer had no sense of danger, like if you would've took that same shot, while that doe was eating--in my experience of what I've seen, they don't jump the string. Shooting distances at alert deer that have their senses heightened verses deer that are clueless of any danger is another scenario worth considering. Like a buck in rut, focused on a doe is less likely to duck the string versus one that's staring in your direction and just caught wind of you. But, nothing is truer, than as you put it: You don't know where that deer is going to be. Awesome video as always.
was it Dirty Harry that said, "a man MUST know his limitations" . . . I love these vids you and your daughter produce, for me kinda like touching up a knife blade.
Awesome video Rich! Always good information and great analogies on your videos. Thank you for your time and dedication to our sport. Our sport is not a guessing game. We do whatever we can whenever we can to take all the “guesswork” out of the equation. And like you said I’ve also heard so many people that say they always shoot 6 to 8 inches low. That’s not the way we should be playing the game whatsoever. Hoping is not a hunting strategy nor is guessing. Every single hunting scenario we find ourselves in differs in one way or another from the last. I have taken shots last year and this year that I previously never would’ve thought possible. The game changer is that I am now shooting a crossbow that shoots well over 500 fps. But no matter what crossbow hunting and archery in general is all about closeness. How close we can get. And I want no part in relying on “hope” or “guessing!” Wishing you and everyone else happy trails.
The farthest I've shot has been 40yds on a walking deer broadside from a climbing stand..I aimed just in front of the shoulder the arrow hit behind the shoulder liked I wanted...the deer was not alert it never did anything to the arrow went through it...Ive hit deer that never move but are dead on their feet...I think most of it was her catching you.......
In my opinion, your "zone of confidence" can increase or decrease depending on the level of alertness of the deer. In this case, the deer was extremely alert and facing you. That drops the distance that you can be confident, if the deer was broadside or quartering away and not aware of you, I would be willing to bet that you would have had a good result. Just an opinion to consider. I have taken deer with an Excalibur 350SE shooting 343 fps at 37 yards with little drop from deer. that was a deer that was feeding and completely unaware of my presence.
In my opinion, shooting at her while she was alert and looking at you, caused the missed shot. She could see and hear everything at the exact moment it happened. That, in my opinion, made her reaction time that much faster. Aiming at an alert deer that doesn't know where you are or is alert because of something else, I do believe that shot would have dropped her.
Very good Rich that was interesting. But you're Shooting a 500 plus Grain Arrow through Bunjie a slower crossbow and through Bunjie 3.0 a much faster you're Shooting a 400 plus Arrow.
Lol!!! I think an invisible arrow would help..... It could be possible that the deer is reacting to the sight of the arrow... The deer didn't flinch to the sound at all... maybe some smart people can say what colors deer do, and don't see!!! Then apply that to the arrows an go from thier....
LOL yes, maybe, but in reality I do think the deer is flinching at the sound of the crossbow, it just takes a while for that to happen and that arrow is booking!
My cat, Decon (great name for a cat, aint it), will not come running to the house when I open the door if he is over 50 yards away. He knows I will have the door closed before he can get to the house. The point is, he reacts to close sounds. So now you have to figure out if you can shoot the deer at 60 yards because it won't think the bow twang is a threat. Maybe your cone of death is 0-36 yards and 50-80 yards. Hah. Put THAT in a book and try to sell it.
Great video! I think with the speed of some new crossbows they may give hunters a false sense of confidence about long range shots. This is a great video now as some bows are topping out @ 500 fps. I shoot 320 and I feel good out to 30 but that's it for me. I might be inclined to shoot 40 if I was running 450 fps but that would have to be on a super relaxed deer under ideal circumstances. Those situations don't come along often. For that reason I stuck with my 320 fps rig. It does fine out to 30 and rarely I have to pass on a deer because of distance.
9:30 zone of confidence... 35 yards on THIS deer. With your great video, and analysis. Perhaps you set up on other side of path (left side), so she doesn't walk out looking your way. Great Video.
Don't think that I haven't thought about the left hand side lol, that's part of a strategy going forward. Totally agree, it applies to this deer. Basically to alert me I guess. Work in progress! Thanks!
Every shot in the woods is different. Some times you win some time you loose. Just try to work it out in your favor with your experiences. I prefer aiming at the heart broad side. Deer usually never go up. But ? Who knows. Lol
That's true! But then again, you're right, you never know, just when you think you've seen it all haha. Thanks, and a few more videos coming on this topic for sure.
a deer on alert is different than one thats not. if she wasn't looking at you she wouldn't have ducked the string. so maybe an alert deer and a relaxed deer require different distances.
Hunting from the ground is a different game. It requires different techniques. The best ground technique is to fool the deer's eyes, not hide from the deer's eyes. If the deer sees you but doesn't perceive you as a threat, then the deer will not get alarmed and just go on about its business. Most modern-day camo doesn't fool the deer. But there is a camo that does, ASAT. I compound bow hunt from the ground a lot. I use the ASAT 3D vanish pro leafy suit. I don't make any special attempt to hide. I want to deer to see me. The deer will look me over and decide that I am not a threat. Once the deer does this, you can get away with movement. I have killed deer within 7 yards on the ground. 3 weeks ago, I had a doe walked within 5 yards of me and never seen me. The next evening standing in the same spot, a big buck came thru, and we were face to face at 10 yards. It eyed me over for a couple minutes but never got alarmed and went on by, it was just too dark to shoot. I was standing on the ground in the open woods with both deer. I often use a stool or a Millenium tree seat and have had great success with ground hunting, nearly as good as from a tree stand. The ASAT leafy suit has been a real game changer for me. It is almost like cheating. The leafy suit can be worn over other clothing, so it can be used from early to late season. Works great in low hanging tree stands as well.
Good video. I agree with the speed divided by 10 %. = shooting distance. Also top of heart , bottom of lungs is my preferred shot also. That doe was fast as heck. Lol.
Hey Rich. Her head is up but its not all the way up. She is standing there prepairing to bolt and she has her legs preloaded in anticipation. An alert deer is diffetent than a deer thats not on alert. I dont know how she silhouetted you, maybe it was the snow fall. I think the only thing that went wrong is she was looking right at you. If she had been on alert but looking or focusing 180° opposite, you would have had more of a delay between your shot and her bolting. Either way this is all after the fact and I would have rolled the dice and taken that shot too. No one can read a deers mind so just get back out, set up on the opisite side of where you were so when they walk out they are looking away from your new position, looking for you to be in the spot you were in this video giving you the upperhand. A little confidence boster for the deer not seeing you where they expect. GL and happy Thanksgiving to you and Genevieve.
Yep, I agree 100%, and I did set up again on a different Trail and killed a doe two nights later. That video will be out soon. Not sure if it's the same deer or not but it certainly could be.
She is a little too face forward for me but a heavy arrow would blow right through. I just don't like the angle there is all. Aiming at the heart they may duck but with proper FOC and weight and a little luck you will break the spine or shoulder if a little far forward. It's a crap shoot sometimes.
Already at .7 slugs of momentum, so I'm less concerned about arrow weight, though. I totally get the value of heavier arrows, I did a lot of videos on those, but I can't imagine that getting the arrow there slower is going to help things LOL.
@@Deathbybunjie I did the 'math' as much as I hate math, and figured around a 10 % reduction in speed from a more or less standard arrow weight of a tad under 500 grains compared to the just slightly over 600 grains of my current bolts. Bringing me down to about 350 FPS. That is acceptable. FOC went up 24% RELATIVE to the somewhat lighter original ones. It's a trade off in all things arrows. I am also using lighted nocks which add to the overall grain weight of the package so it's not all forward weight. I feel the ability to pass through and or snap the spine/shoulder gives me an advantage over one that may not. Just me and what inspires confidence (there's that word again ) I may try past 40 yards, or maybe not in my lifetime. I like the idea of the point pulling the arrow more than the arrow driving the point, somehow makes sense to me. And I hate 1/4 'ing in shots because the damn arrow may traverse the entire gut and come out his butt !
I don't disagree with you really, and don't forget, almost every deer I've ever shot was under 25 yards. Even my last rifle doe in 2011, was a 20 yard shot. It's what convinced me to give up rifles haha. Closer is always better.
The owner of the shop I got my crossbow from ages ago, told me a second time before letting go the bag of accessories while handing it to me. "Keep it under 30". Solid advice to me.
That video convinces me of one thing, and that is that heavier arrows shot out of slower compound bows do not get there very fast. Modern crossbows are just different.
I'm in the same boat with you. My old crossbow shot about 280 fps. My new one shoots about 380 fps. I'm a 40 yd max shooter. No matter what. It's where my confidence and comfort ends. I don't want to just injure a deer. I've found someone else's deer before. Gut shot and laying by a trail. Pissed me off.
40 yards is a fairly long way! I’m sure that if the right conditions presented, the Scorpyd would successfully achieve such a shot. Shooting my new 505 I would hesitate at 40 or more yards.
Oh snap! There's a lot of variables in that shot against it being successful! She was ready for it wasn't she. Lol.. at least she wasn't wounded. Only bad thing is now she's even smarter. Lol oh well.
I agree with a lot of what you said, in my opinion aiming off is for shotguns not for rifles or bows, doping wind is one thing but aiming off a target trying to predict what it’s going to do is a total guess and thus follows a Hail Mary shot, a lot also has to do with the alertness of the deer, is it relaxed and feeding or is it on full alert and nervous this can also change its reaction, I passed on a shot on a large buck a few weeks ago as it was a risky shot, could I have killed the deer ? Maybe could I have missed or worse wounded it ? Yes and if I had I would have been tremendously upset with myself, I would recommend making lethal shots not risky ones.
I have an old Exomag much like your old Bunjie and have practiced most of my shots at the 50 yard mark, not knowing any better, since the scope I have has a 50 yard reticle mark. I would say, that is my zone of confidence. The last two deer I have taken, were both at 50 yards, both within a couple inches of target. As for the bolts, both blew through. One kept on going, never found it. From what I know of this bow, it's 200Lb of pull, 350fps. I thought yours was the same? I will keep in mind what you have said from this time on. Thanks for great info!
The OB is 175lbs, 305 fps, but with my heavier arrows, only 260 fps. Bunjie III, only 150 lbs but 420 fps...difference in technology and the era in which they were built. That's great about your crossbow, good luck out there!
And just to add. I will be trying to come up with a way that I can drop a target. The split second after I take the shot to simulate the deer jumping the string, In order for me to better anticipate where the shot will hit. I think this would be beneficial and ways of making more ethical shots and some great practice as well. What do you think?
100% with what you said about aiming 8" below is a bad idea. I just took my longest shot this week at a nice 8 point. It was a 50 yard shot with my Scorpyd. I aimed for the heart and hit the heart. He did not duck what so ever.
I feel your pain. Last night, last day of bow season, perfect wind, perfect setup, deer did exactly as I wanted. 19 does came out an eight point and a ten point, I ranged the ten pnt multiple times... And I missed lol.. the deer never moved didn't even care I was there. Idk how I missed 43 yards, but I definitely shot low... I can hit my own arrows at 50 lol, my bow did have snow on it
Don't overlook the the sound of your arrow in flight. I'm not sure the deer are not reacting to that, more than the noise of the bow. It seems most deer will start to drop when the arrow is about ten yards from them. Any that I've had duck the arrow, just kept walking, and never spooked or known I was there. That was with a compound bow, so a much slower arrow, but a quiet shot. I still think it's a close range sport regardless of what you're using. You just don't know what the animal is going to do. Shooting at a deer that already busted you lowers the odds even more. Thanks for posting this video! The more we can all learn the better.
Love the video, but I believe that a deer that hadn’t keyed in on your whereabouts, and was just passing through or milling, feeding could be taken well beyond 36 yards with your fps. This deer just pegged you and was ready for whatever happened.
That is some really interesting footage you got from your Game Lands hunt. PS. I live ~ a mile from PA Game Lands #37 but hunt private property. I hunt with an Excalibur Exocet 200 that I got 13 years ago for my 65th BD. Longest shot I've taken was 30 yards but paced out to be 33 yards.
Part of my thought process is that MISSING low, is way better than HITTING high. High hits are a disaster on so many levels. Many times, it is a non-lethal hit, and even if it is lethal, the blood trail can be almost non-existent, which many times means - no recovery. My arrow set ups cost 25 - 30 bucks each. High hits on many occasions are not pass thrus, so.. the poor deer has an arrow sticking out of its back AND there is no "arrow refund". I posted 2 videos recently showing aiming low at 30ish yards and aiming center of the deer 30ish yards. In neither case, the deer could be predicted on IF, WHEN, or HOW MUCH they might react to the crossbow. I have shot at deer that reacted violently, chest almost hitting the ground, as they dropped and rolled to run away. Others have stood there like statues and did not react at all till the arrow hit them. I think, at least on longer shots, they not only react to the sound of the crossbow, but the SOUND of the approaching arrow, and possibly can even SEE the arrow coming on longer distance shots. This is based on some deer's hesitation of dropping at the crossbow sound, but they seem to start moving as the arrow is approaching them. This all occurs in fractions of a second, but when you slow down the video, it becomes apparent that some deer's reaction is not based on the sound of the crossbow or they would be moving almost instantly at the trigger. Their reflexes are that good.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here but there's no question they're moving in response to the sound of the crossbow. Crossbows are loud. That's just how it is. It takes time however for that sound to reach the deer, and then it takes more time for the deer to process that and for them to start to react. Remember, they can only react based on gravity. So they can only drop so fast, also. They can only drop as fast as gravity allows them to. All of this was covered in another really good video that we did with Darren Cummings, the guy that did that video with Dr Grant Woods involving a machine that he built. I think Darren and I both agree that deer react to the sound of the arrow, also, but more in a sense that they are using that as information about where the threat is coming from. In other words, after they drop, they might be using the sound of the arrow to determine which direction they want to spring toward. All good stuff, and a lot more coming on this topic I'm betting.
@@Deathbybunjie Agreed. The sound is definitely the trigger. Easy enough to test tho. Next time you see a deer, shoot the opposite direction while recording the deers reaction.
@@outdoors-fun 😆
Thank you sir. I am new to the crossbow game and this was immensely helpful.
Good job Rich. You are being thorough and thoughtful on this topic, along with your other videos. I'm a new hunter and have very limited hunting experience. But I like your thought process, especially the idea of doing everything you can to make the point of aim and point of impact the same. As a new hunter I want to remove as many variables as I can so this is helpful to me.
Good point removing variables is key. Increases chances of success! Good luck!
Excellent video
Another great video !! I agree with you!! Im so glad I learned my lesson this year . I now will keep a rifle in my blind just for that trophy buck that comes out past my comfort zone.
I am fully convinced that hunting public land deer is just a whole different ball game they are much smarter because they have to be!!!
Great video Rich. Great footage.
Hey Rich, absolutely great video. The level of detail and the amount of rational thought and calculations you do, especially with reviewing your video footage, is exemplary. I wish more hunters would adopt your approach, actually I think society in general would benefit from your methods. Keep up the good work.
Thank you, and I kind of agree about Society at large, also, thanks for watching.
The best blades to use for your crossbow or compound bow are slick tricks. They fly like a field tip.
Great honest video. I agree. That is a very tough shot on a alert-facing deer. My crossbow is at 410 fps. They tell me I can make an accurate/lethal 40 yard shot with it. The longest harvest I've felt comfortable with was 32 yards. That was on a non-alert deer, broadside. I really try to stay at 25 yards. We all have to find our comfort zone lol....Again, great video, great info...thanks for sharing...
"Zone of Confidence" I like that. Can I use it?
With proper attribution haha
@@Deathbybunjie Fat Chance. 🤣
Just got back to the world of the living. Been out in the empire swamp the past week. Catching up w bunjie with a cup of coffee on Thanksgiving morning. Cheers Rich and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!
Welcome back to civilization LOL I hope you had a great time! Happy Thanksgiving!
That was a really loud shot! 😮
Can it be that a spear, since its silent, get then the same success then a fast but loud bow/crossbow ?
spear guys tend to throw down, not out, if that makes sense LOL
Awesome breakdown of the shot as far as range and how she drops
Ya I learned that lesson on alert deer with my first crossbow I bought in the early 2000s ,I almost broke that bow against a tree that day until I talked to smarter people than me and learned my lesson and stuck one the next weekend using what I learned, and I am with you on I want it to hit what I aim at not playing the drop, words of wisdom 👍👍👍
Can't help it, zone of confidence just brings 'cone of silence' to mind, LOL
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How come whenever I'm holding MY crossbow and say it's name it doesn't sparkle like yours does? Does your crossbow love you more than mine loves me?
That's between you and your crossbow lol
I got so many Excalibur Crossbows got ideas where I can store them?
-Thank You!
Hang them up in your trophy room, that's what I do LOL
Not with that crossbow is made for long distance shooting but did you get it???
Not sure what you're asking here...
I am building some bolts based on the Sirius Phoenix bolts, 20 + inches and wonder your opinion on the Ethics Archery spinning inserts, which in theory isolate the broadhead from the shaft ? I am not sure of the concept but sitting on the couch here it makes sense. Using a 200 grain Tuffhead single bevel or even a 300 grain maybe.
My initial thoughts are that if it was beneficial, we would all be doing it. But I'm very interested in it and I look forward to hearing from you about it!
@@Deathbybunjie As a KISS advocate ( Keep it Simple Stupid) I have my issues with all mechanical things and wonder if they will get gummed up on targets or animals, cleaning, etc. If my new bolts fly I for sure won't be adding them. It just seems on a couch level to be a reasonable theory.
@@jeffhays1968 couch level, LOL love it
That footage of where the bolt was flying, point of aim, and the reaction of the deer was pure gold, this would be a fantastic tool for hunter safety courses. Nice work.
What is that sight on #3 called? And how difficult was setting it up?
Thanks.
ruclips.net/video/-tVrmnBvk5w/видео.html
I did some other videos on setting it up it's awesome and I have another video coming!
I've come to believe the head down, cringe, if you so want to call it that. That's a myth. Most, not all, do it no matter where their head is. The proof. Is in the pudding, you just made that point.
One other thing, I know a lot of us don't say it, but I know we feel it, you (and your daughter) are appreciated very much, for all the time, effort and I heart you put into this and putting out these videos. Thanks man! 🎯🥇🥇
Thanks you!!
Great video, great info
I have had a lot of success just sitting on the ground with no blind and often without camp. I am impressed by how well that works!
Excellent video. My and a hunting buddy experience " jump the string".
Know your equipment!!!
I agree, that's key
Hello Rich, what do you call the small device that your daughter bought you?
amzn.to/3GvLCdE that's very similar, just a card reader for your phone
Hi Rich. I've enjoyed your videos through the years, and this is a great one. One small point of clarification for you and your viewers' benefit: Slugs are a unit of mass, not momentum. Since momentum is a mass X velocity, the correct units for momentum would be slugs feet per sec. I hope that makes sense. Let me know if you have any questions on it. It can be confusing. Best regards!
More is better, that's the point though LOL
@@Deathbybunjie Indubitably :)
I do understand the football analogy. Theoretically, we study these deers, movements, and patterns, and how they react. We've come up with algorithms for how fast they drop in comparison to the FPS of what we're shooting. So in theory, we should be able to anticipate where that deer should be just like the quarterback and a receiver. He should be at this point. Ready to catch this ball just like the deer, should be, theoretically, at this point when I shoot.
Ok, one key thing that is missing in your thoughts, (my personal feeling about this, and no disparagement towards you at all) is this: at the same yardage, a relaxed deer feeding is going to react far differently than your deer at full alert. I have shot deer and also ‘at’ deer at this same range with my bow, in both scenarios. The relaxed deer did not jump the string and came home with me. Last year the alert deer not only ducked, but spun away, so when the arrow reached its destination, there was nothing but open air where the deer used to be. It was truly an amazing thing to see! I couldn’t even be disappointed in the miss, because I got to see this in person. My point is: do not adjust your zone of confidence, adjust your zone according to the current behavior of the deer. If alert, the zone contracts, if relaxed, expand it. Also, environmental factors, such as road noise, a jet flying over, a tractor running, wind in the trees, will also expand your zone a bit, depending on the alertness of the deer at that moment
All great points, I agree 100%
Good video it has to do with what pressure the deer are under to maybe.
I agree 100%
I always ease the safety off too. I have a story to tell and I now have the confidence to tell it now in hopes of helping others. Thanks
There is an ongoing study that is finding the deer can hear the bolt/arrow coming towards them at about 8 ft to 10 yards regardless of how fast the arrow is going and if they find it alarming they will duck the arrow
I bet that's using slow compound bows LOL
With Ravin R9 ~400 FPS, I shot deer at 50 yards, felt a little crazy but certain I aimed at left side of deer and actually hit deer on the right side at the same location as it ran back into the woods. Keeping it within 40 seems like a good idea....
"Deer are not on our team." - Rich Wilson, 2022 Write it down. Title for Book #3.
Good info, that deer alert, ready to bolt and right now, looking right at you in the open, probably saw the crossbow limbs move outward even before it heard the sound, reacting to the visual cue perhaps even a little mo' quicker. Thank you Rich. -William Liggett
You make a great point about the crossbow limbs moving outward, I had not given that much thought!
Rich, a hunt is in 4 steps once the deer is spotted 1..is the deer good for your table..2..is the deer within 30 yrds..3..is the deer broad side or quartering away..4..are you in a good position to shoot..if so that deer is dead..if one of these 4 steps is not right, abort the shot..works every time..deer hunting on the ground and these 4 steps coming together is lower % than from a tree..
I see Rich. You can’t name a football player but I’m sure you could rattle off ten guitarists that play Strats!
Yep, I can do that blindfolded LOL
I have learned my lesson on this subject and after 30 years of hunting whitetails....I will wait until I can call that deer in or wait till it feeds its way to my ladder stand. 25 yards is about max for me to guarantee a good kill. Great video Rich! (Tenpoint Titan SS)
Where do I order one of those thingie majig to plug into phone
Amazon has lots of options!
The shot you showed when you clicked your crossbow From safety to fire, she was in that realm or that zone of confidence. Where had that been the same deer that you missed, She would have definitely taken a permanent nap. In my opinion,, Incidentally, I do love watching your pods and videos like this. It makes you think and re adjust a lot of things that could potentially increase your favor while hunting in my opinion.
Last season, I shot the last year that I shot that season, at a range of 64 yd. It was a mature dough, however, she wasn't alert like that deer that you shot at was, and she was quartering away. My crossbow I was shooting was the Swat X1, bolt weight was 500gr, bolt speed was 351 fps, optics was the Killer Instinct Max View MV36, Broadhead of choice was the Ozcut hurricanes 150 grain. Extremely accurate and predominantly pretty quiet. The shot itself is quiet as well with that amount of weight up front. Point of aim was about four inches lower than mid body. Point of impact was 2 inches higher than heart, double lung, hitting the off side shoulder.
Great points here and I love that X1!
@Deathbybunjie I like my swat X1 and my fatal X better than my mission sub 1xr, Granted I haven't hunted with my mission yet,, But I definitely like it's long range accuracy,, And it's super quiet If I shoot a 500 grain bolt.
I found that an alert deer drops much faster than one with its head down and doesnt know you are there.
Indeed!
Been my story this season, 2 low percentage shots, 0 for 2, successful long shots last year gave me overconfidence this year, I think 40 yds and under more appropiate for my Excalibur 420 assassin
Maybe you should implement that guess work into your strategy. Especially when a deer is already alert ⚠️ 📢 😳 🦌
Lol it's a work on progress for sure
Think about the speed of sound . 20--30 is the hunting distance for a arrow , this goes for the fastest crossbow , I wish all hunters would understand this .
It takes a while for the sound to get there but it also takes a while for the deer to react to the sound and process the information they receive, plus, alert gear are different than relaxed deer, and every crossbow sounds different it seems, there's still lots to consider on the subject
Target shooting back yard it really helps to improve form and consistency it also helps a lot with fine tuning the crosshairs after that though it becomes pointless.
Being able to hit a target where you aim all the time 50 plus yards does not mean that you will kill deer. Far too many factors come into play.
Humidity will affect arrow flight so did you sight in for the summer or the fall/ winter. If summer spaces in the scope could be off that makes point of impact off. I sight in for fall low to no humidity perfect for winter but still snow and ice on rail limbs and bolts will affect as well. Archery is a challenge and a close game challenge for hunting.
🎯. Great info. 👍
Grant Woods does have some great videos on this subject. I shoot 456 fps and stil don't like shooting much over 35 yards and would never shoot at one over 40 yards with this current setup. Just a matter of ethics to me and wanting to give myself and the deer the best outcome with a lethal hit. Thanks for this topice. I am sure it will generate a lot of comments the same as which broadhead is the best for deer, ha, ha.
There are those that complain about fast crossbows and say why do you need such speed. In realistic ranges, the greater power will blow through a shoulder and get to the vitals. That’s not about taking sloppy shots. A quartering toward you type of shot presents numerous challenges.
I took a head on shot with a wicked ridge rdx400 with a shwacker 150 grain 3 inch cut at 51 yards the broadhead was stuck in the hind quarter and she didn't run 30 yards
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Actually, what happened with that shot still fits with Darren Cummings theory. You said your speed is about 380 fps. Divide by 10 and your at 38 yards.
Yep, I don't disagree one bit.
Thank you for an excellent video! It 's always been a close range game for me, one has to know all the limitations. OK, I'll say it one more time, "All hail Bunjie!"
Closer is always better, that's for sure
I just want to let you know I watch you all the time, and it is amazing to me the amount of time and energy that you put into this. Keep up the good work. Great show.
Thank you and good luck!
I think the analogy you need for a deer ducking the shot Is, “dodgeball.” No one wants to get hit in dodgeball.
Good one!
Thanks for the great video. Always learn things when you share your hunting. Think my zone stays at 30 yards for now.
You can't go wrong with that
Even with hunting with guns , there is a zone of confidence/range of confidence but just wondering why you totally abandoned hunting with guns ? Did you sell all your guns ? Or , for security reasons , if you don't want to answer that question we'll understand !
Actually I think I may have heard about Area of certainty or range of certainty , from hunting as a kid but I like zone of confidence or zone of certainty .
I have lots of guns but no rifles to speak of. I'm a crossbow hunter!
I shoot an excalibur 355 micro. In my experience I have 30 yards as a max. I got a shot at a small buck the last weekend of archery and it worked out. I actually saw him fall about 20-25 yards from the shot, so I was thrilled. I took the shot because he had no idea I was there and was quartering away. Considering what I saw I figured I got him with a text book shot. When I came up on him to my surprise the shot was back and high. At 25 yards it put the bolt near through him from just ahead of the rear leg and it went out the front inside the opposite front leg. I found 3/4 of the bolt was still in him when I was field dressing him. So I'm guessing he jumped the string to some degree. I was actually hunting out of a tree in a saddle. So that may have helped since I my shot was downward instead of straight on , like hunting on the ground.
That's still awesome though that you got a deer out of a tree saddle congratulations!
I think that if that deer had no sense of danger, like if you would've took that same shot, while that doe was eating--in my experience of what I've seen, they don't jump the string. Shooting distances at alert deer that have their senses heightened verses deer that are clueless of any danger is another scenario worth considering. Like a buck in rut, focused on a doe is less likely to duck the string versus one that's staring in your direction and just caught wind of you. But, nothing is truer, than as you put it: You don't know where that deer is going to be. Awesome video as always.
Thanks, I agree for sure that alert deer are a special problem
was it Dirty Harry that said, "a man MUST know his limitations" . . . I love these vids you and your daughter produce, for me kinda like touching up a knife blade.
that's a neat way to put it!
Awesome video Rich! Always good information and great analogies on your videos. Thank you for your time and dedication to our sport. Our sport is not a guessing game. We do whatever we can whenever we can to take all the “guesswork” out of the equation. And like you said I’ve also heard so many people that say they always shoot 6 to 8 inches low. That’s not the way we should be playing the game whatsoever. Hoping is not a hunting strategy nor is guessing. Every single hunting scenario we find ourselves in differs in one way or another from the last. I have taken shots last year and this year that I previously never would’ve thought possible. The game changer is that I am now shooting a crossbow that shoots well over 500 fps. But no matter what crossbow hunting and archery in general is all about closeness. How close we can get. And I want no part in relying on “hope” or “guessing!” Wishing you and everyone else happy trails.
Great stuff, thanks!!
The farthest I've shot has been 40yds on a walking deer broadside from a climbing stand..I aimed just in front of the shoulder the arrow hit behind the shoulder liked I wanted...the deer was not alert it never did anything to the arrow went through it...Ive hit deer that never move but are dead on their feet...I think most of it was her catching you.......
I agree 100% her looking at me and being on to me was a big part of it for sure
Great to listen to real talk!! Aim small miss small my thoughts! Thank you rock!!!
In my opinion, your "zone of confidence" can increase or decrease depending on the level of alertness of the deer. In this case, the deer was extremely alert and facing you. That drops the distance that you can be confident, if the deer was broadside or quartering away and not aware of you, I would be willing to bet that you would have had a good result. Just an opinion to consider. I have taken deer with an Excalibur 350SE shooting 343 fps at 37 yards with little drop from deer. that was a deer that was feeding and completely unaware of my presence.
I totally agree, thanks!
Scorpyd 2023 plans: try to stay in business
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In my opinion, shooting at her while she was alert and looking at you, caused the missed shot. She could see and hear everything at the exact moment it happened. That, in my opinion, made her reaction time that much faster. Aiming at an alert deer that doesn't know where you are or is alert because of something else, I do believe that shot would have dropped her.
I appreciate these thoughtful and analytical discussions. Keep them coming!
Very good Rich that was interesting. But you're Shooting a 500 plus Grain Arrow through Bunjie a slower crossbow and through Bunjie 3.0 a much faster you're Shooting a 400 plus Arrow.
Yes they are apples and oranges, the same concept applies but the numbers are all different that's for sure
Very day in the woods is a learning experience, just feel ok with the outcome. And cherish the memories.
Rich, do I have your permission to use this video in my Hunter Safety classes? You being a lawyer and all.😂
Lol yeah if you think it's good, go for it
Whats the name of that little doodad that Genevieve got you?
It's just a card reader that can attach to your phone, you can get them on Amazon or at Walmart and they're not very expensive!
Lol!!! I think an invisible arrow would help..... It could be possible that the deer is reacting to the sight of the arrow... The deer didn't flinch to the sound at all... maybe some smart people can say what colors deer do, and don't see!!! Then apply that to the arrows an go from thier....
LOL yes, maybe, but in reality I do think the deer is flinching at the sound of the crossbow, it just takes a while for that to happen and that arrow is booking!
My cat, Decon (great name for a cat, aint it), will not come running to the house when I open the door if he is over 50 yards away. He knows I will have the door closed before he can get to the house. The point is, he reacts to close sounds. So now you have to figure out if you can shoot the deer at 60 yards because it won't think the bow twang is a threat. Maybe your cone of death is 0-36 yards and 50-80 yards. Hah. Put THAT in a book and try to sell it.
That's something I've thought of for sure
Great video! I think with the speed of some new crossbows they may give hunters a false sense of confidence about long range shots. This is a great video now as some bows are topping out @ 500 fps. I shoot 320 and I feel good out to 30 but that's it for me. I might be inclined to shoot 40 if I was running 450 fps but that would have to be on a super relaxed deer under ideal circumstances. Those situations don't come along often. For that reason I stuck with my 320 fps rig. It does fine out to 30 and rarely I have to pass on a deer because of distance.
Looked like the doe had already spotted you. Probably already on edge
Oh yeah definitely, that definitely makes a difference
Maybe that deer tracked that arrow with its ears and or eyes and just got out of the way since it was looking at you on alert before the shot.
9:30 zone of confidence... 35 yards on THIS deer. With your great video, and analysis.
Perhaps you set up on other side of path (left side), so she doesn't walk out looking your way.
Great Video.
Don't think that I haven't thought about the left hand side lol, that's part of a strategy going forward. Totally agree, it applies to this deer. Basically to alert me I guess. Work in progress! Thanks!
@@DeathbybunjieIt was a very interesting video, you did a great job.
Every shot in the woods is different. Some times you win some time you loose. Just try to work it out in your favor with your experiences. I prefer aiming at the heart broad side. Deer usually never go up. But ? Who knows. Lol
That's true! But then again, you're right, you never know, just when you think you've seen it all haha. Thanks, and a few more videos coming on this topic for sure.
Good video I enjoy watching them. Good luck with the next Deer. I'll take a miss over a bad hit any day.
a deer on alert is different than one thats not. if she wasn't looking at you she wouldn't have ducked the string. so maybe an alert deer and a relaxed deer require different distances.
Agree 💯
Hunting from the ground is a different game. It requires different techniques.
The best ground technique is to fool the deer's eyes, not hide from the deer's eyes. If the deer sees you but doesn't perceive you as a threat, then the deer will not get alarmed and just go on about its business.
Most modern-day camo doesn't fool the deer. But there is a camo that does, ASAT. I compound bow hunt from the ground a lot. I use the ASAT 3D vanish pro leafy suit. I don't make any special attempt to hide. I want to deer to see me. The deer will look me over and decide that I am not a threat. Once the deer does this, you can get away with movement. I have killed deer within 7 yards on the ground. 3 weeks ago, I had a doe walked within 5 yards of me and never seen me. The next evening standing in the same spot, a big buck came thru, and we were face to face at 10 yards. It eyed me over for a couple minutes but never got alarmed and went on by, it was just too dark to shoot. I was standing on the ground in the open woods with both deer.
I often use a stool or a Millenium tree seat and have had great success with ground hunting, nearly as good as from a tree stand. The ASAT leafy suit has been a real game changer for me. It is almost like cheating. The leafy suit can be worn over other clothing, so it can be used from early to late season. Works great in low hanging tree stands as well.
Thanks for the tip, a buddy of mine really likes that ASAT camo so I'm familiar with it and I will check it out!
Good video. I agree with the speed divided by 10 %. = shooting distance. Also top of heart , bottom of lungs is my preferred shot also. That doe was fast as heck. Lol.
Hey Rich. Her head is up but its not all the way up. She is standing there prepairing to bolt and she has her legs preloaded in anticipation. An alert deer is diffetent than a deer thats not on alert. I dont know how she silhouetted you, maybe it was the snow fall. I think the only thing that went wrong is she was looking right at you. If she had been on alert but looking or focusing 180° opposite, you would have had more of a delay between your shot and her bolting. Either way this is all after the fact and I would have rolled the dice and taken that shot too. No one can read a deers mind so just get back out, set up on the opisite side of where you were so when they walk out they are looking away from your new position, looking for you to be in the spot you were in this video giving you the upperhand. A little confidence boster for the deer not seeing you where they expect. GL and happy Thanksgiving to you and Genevieve.
Yep, I agree 100%, and I did set up again on a different Trail and killed a doe two nights later. That video will be out soon. Not sure if it's the same deer or not but it certainly could be.
She is a little too face forward for me but a heavy arrow would blow right through. I just don't like the angle there is all. Aiming at the heart they may duck but with proper FOC and weight and a little luck you will break the spine or shoulder if a little far forward. It's a crap shoot sometimes.
Already at .7 slugs of momentum, so I'm less concerned about arrow weight, though. I totally get the value of heavier arrows, I did a lot of videos on those, but I can't imagine that getting the arrow there slower is going to help things LOL.
@@Deathbybunjie I did the 'math' as much as I hate math, and figured around a 10 % reduction in speed from a more or less standard arrow weight of a tad under 500 grains compared to the just slightly over 600 grains of my current bolts. Bringing me down to about 350 FPS. That is acceptable. FOC went up 24% RELATIVE to the somewhat lighter original ones. It's a trade off in all things arrows. I am also using lighted nocks which add to the overall grain weight of the package so it's not all forward weight. I feel the ability to pass through and or snap the spine/shoulder gives me an advantage over one that may not. Just me and what inspires confidence (there's that word again ) I may try past 40 yards, or maybe not in my lifetime. I like the idea of the point pulling the arrow more than the arrow driving the point, somehow makes sense to me. And I hate 1/4 'ing in shots because the damn arrow may traverse the entire gut and come out his butt !
Deer hunting is a 20,25 Yard game! Makes you a better hunter. Makes you make a better set up.
I don't disagree with you really, and don't forget, almost every deer I've ever shot was under 25 yards. Even my last rifle doe in 2011, was a 20 yard shot. It's what convinced me to give up rifles haha. Closer is always better.
The owner of the shop I got my crossbow from ages ago, told me a second time before letting go the bag of accessories while handing it to me. "Keep it under 30". Solid advice to me.
💯
Ranch fairy just uploaded a video on the same subject
That video convinces me of one thing, and that is that heavier arrows shot out of slower compound bows do not get there very fast. Modern crossbows are just different.
I'm in the same boat with you. My old crossbow shot about 280 fps. My new one shoots about 380 fps. I'm a 40 yd max shooter. No matter what. It's where my confidence and comfort ends. I don't want to just injure a deer. I've found someone else's deer before. Gut shot and laying by a trail. Pissed me off.
And Quarterbacks still miss their recievers.
Indeed, great point!
40 yards is a fairly long way! I’m sure that if the right conditions presented, the Scorpyd would successfully achieve such a shot.
Shooting my new 505 I would hesitate at 40 or more yards.
Oh snap! There's a lot of variables in that shot against it being successful! She was ready for it wasn't she. Lol.. at least she wasn't wounded. Only bad thing is now she's even smarter. Lol oh well.
Yes, you can bet she's going to be looking at that spot every time she comes out of the woods there LOL
Rich I think you should have waited a bit longer.I think the out come would have been different
Certainly possible, and waiting, or even passing isn't necessarily a bad thing that's for sure
Not to far just the angle
I agree with a lot of what you said, in my opinion aiming off is for shotguns not for rifles or bows, doping wind is one thing but aiming off a target trying to predict what it’s going to do is a total guess and thus follows a Hail Mary shot, a lot also has to do with the alertness of the deer, is it relaxed and feeding or is it on full alert and nervous this can also change its reaction, I passed on a shot on a large buck a few weeks ago as it was a risky shot, could I have killed the deer ? Maybe could I have missed or worse wounded it ? Yes and if I had I would have been tremendously upset with myself, I would recommend making lethal shots not risky ones.
Totally agree, and the shotgun analogy is a great one!
I have an old Exomag much like your old Bunjie and have practiced most of my shots at the 50 yard mark, not knowing any better, since the scope I have has a 50 yard reticle mark. I would say, that is my zone of confidence. The last two deer I have taken, were both at 50 yards, both within a couple inches of target. As for the bolts, both blew through. One kept on going, never found it. From what I know of this bow, it's 200Lb of pull, 350fps. I thought yours was the same? I will keep in mind what you have said from this time on. Thanks for great info!
The OB is 175lbs, 305 fps, but with my heavier arrows, only 260 fps. Bunjie III, only 150 lbs but 420 fps...difference in technology and the era in which they were built. That's great about your crossbow, good luck out there!
And just to add. I will be trying to come up with a way that I can drop a target. The split second after I take the shot to simulate the deer jumping the string, In order for me to better anticipate where the shot will hit. I think this would be beneficial and ways of making more ethical shots and some great practice as well. What do you think?
ruclips.net/video/-ZzzKYiO9LU/видео.html
Great idea and we did a video on that!
Aim low at heart. That deer was ready to bolt. Even fraction lower if alert like that one
100% with what you said about aiming 8" below is a bad idea. I just took my longest shot this week at a nice 8 point. It was a 50 yard shot with my Scorpyd. I aimed for the heart and hit the heart. He did not duck what so ever.
Yep, we just never know, congratulations on that though!
I feel your pain. Last night, last day of bow season, perfect wind, perfect setup, deer did exactly as I wanted. 19 does came out an eight point and a ten point, I ranged the ten pnt multiple times... And I missed lol.. the deer never moved didn't even care I was there. Idk how I missed 43 yards, but I definitely shot low... I can hit my own arrows at 50 lol, my bow did have snow on it
Oh, man, it happens, good luck going forward!
Don't overlook the the sound of your arrow in flight. I'm not sure the deer are not reacting to that, more than the noise of the bow. It seems most deer will start to drop when the arrow is about ten yards from them. Any that I've had duck the arrow, just kept walking, and never spooked or known I was there. That was with a compound bow, so a much slower arrow, but a quiet shot. I still think it's a close range sport regardless of what you're using. You just don't know what the animal is going to do. Shooting at a deer that already busted you lowers the odds even more. Thanks for posting this video! The more we can all learn the better.
Closer is better, no doubt about that!
Love the video, but I believe that a deer that hadn’t keyed in on your whereabouts, and was just passing through or milling, feeding could be taken well beyond 36 yards with your fps. This deer just pegged you and was ready for whatever happened.
Oh, I agree about that for sure...again, just food for thought!
I shot my first buck at 50 yards 😆
That is some really interesting footage you got from your Game Lands hunt.
PS. I live ~ a mile from PA Game Lands #37 but hunt private property. I hunt with an Excalibur Exocet 200 that I got 13 years ago for my 65th BD. Longest shot I've taken was 30 yards but paced out to be 33 yards.